More on the Ethnostate

August 23, 2009 Hunter Wallace Uncategorized 24

OneSTDV has another thread up about the White ethnostate. A number of different issues are considered. Here are my thoughts:

The proposed micro-state would be more viable if IQ was the basis of  inclusion/exclusion instead of purely ethnic criteria.

OneSTDV beats me to the punch here. The individual immigrant only has a lifespan of 70 to 100 years. His descendants though will be around for generations. When non-White immigrants are imported into the United States, we are importing a lineage, not merely individuals. Thus, ethnic and racial considerations should weigh more heavily in our immigration laws than individual based criteria.

Asians are “productive and law abiding,” but tend to look out for their own. Collectivist Asians won’t have the best interests of Whites at heart.

An unimpeachable point. Following G.W. and Steve Sailer, OneSTDV has criticized White Nationalists for acting like NAMs, but ignores the fact that “Asian-Americans” vote like Jews, Hispanics, and negroes. They don’t identify with the White majority. Like the Jews, they forego significant economic incentives to vote for the Democratic Party.

Why does a White ethnostate need to be justified?

It doesn’t. Traditional societies evolve organically. They aren’t based on any so-called “proposition.” As for non-traditional societies, or ideological regimes (like the USSR or Revolutionary France), well, those are usually established by force.

The demand that White Nationalists “justify” the ethnostate assumes an implausible scenario: that our enemies are willing to give White Nationalism a fair hearing, and could be persuaded to the partition the United States on the basis of nothing more than a compelling logical argument. That isn’t going to happen. Hence, there is no rationale for searching for a “philosophy” to justify our movement.

What about SWPL’s?

I doubt these effete urban and suburban whites would be included in a White ethnostate. White Nationalism is a secessionist movement. It presupposes that a significant number of Whites will have given up on the national political system. It is a matter of convincing individual states (or parts of states) to abandon the Union for a new political entity.

What about ethnic nepotism?

This is an interesting question. I would argue that White ethnics have already interbred to such a significant extent that these divisions aren’t really that salient. In a few generations, they will be far less salient than they are now.

White Nationalism is a revolutionary movement. If a White ethnostate were ever successfully established, it would require such an immense degree of racial polarization that I doubt these differences would be much of an internal problem. The remnant of the multiracial USA would play the role of ‘the Other’ to the new White ethnostate. Also, the multiethnic Northeast is the least likely location for a triumphant White ethnostate to emerge.

White Nationalism encourages Whites to act like non-Whites.

No, White Nationalism encourages Whites to act more like the founding settlers who created America, and less like the Baby Boomers.

About Hunter Wallace 12390 Articles
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24 Comments

  1. OneSTDV sure sounds scared of being seen as taking sides, being pro-White. When you have to resort to lame arguments such as “it’s for the best of humanity” to justify the continued existence of your group, something is off. Reminds me of people here in the Netherlands saying we need to cut back on immigration so that the already-here immigrants can “integrate” more easily.

    I’ve just browsed his website for a couple of minutes, so I don’t know him that well. But he seems to share the obsession with Asians common to many in the HBD or “Steveosphere” community. I never understood that. Sure, they’re intelligent and hard-working but I never felt the urge to allow them to migrate here in mass numbers.

  2. Agreed. There are no justifications, no philosophies, no board meetings, no moral imperatives, no hassles about hurting any lesser mortal’s feelings, no tea parties required for any White Ethnostate. These are absolutely inalienable rights directly accessible to any peoples calling themselves a “group” or “ethny” and these rights sit above, out of reach from and beyond the jurisdiction of any other human being or beings, corpus, or law.

  3. White Nationalism encourages Whites to act like non-Whites.

    No, White Nationalism encourages Whites to act more like the founding settlers who created America, and less like the Baby Boomers.

    Agreed.

    But, even at that, what’s WRONG with acting like non-Whites, to the extent that NAMs are ethnocentric, so if we practiced it, it would be acting like NAMs?
    Ethnocentricity serves your own interests, in that it secures your people’s (including your own) survival, and survival is surely in your own interest. And securing your own survival is NOT wrong.
    If we DON’T act like NAMs in regards to ethnocentricity, they’ll take advantage of our passivity to stick the knife to us and steal our country, as they are doing.
    Saying it’s beneath Whites to behave ethnocentrically is the same argument the anti-war activists used to use to try to persuade America to unilaterally disarm. They said it was beneath America to “hold the world hostage to total thermonuclear warfare,” so if we decided to “be nice” and disarm, then surely so the Soviets would be nice and do also.
    Reagan made it clear that it is strength which persuades one’s enemies to back away. Weakness encourages aggression.
    White ethnocentricity is the ICBM of weapons in the struggle for our country.

  4. Maybe I’ve missed it, but I still haven’t read a reason from OneSTDV that it’s necessary to have 20% of the nation be non-white.

    Really, there is no reason. I joked with him about liking Chinese food that much, to concede a large part of his nation to them.

    I think it’s just part of that liberal disease, that we must placate non-whites, help them, be part of their lives, enjoy a masochistic cult-like morality. There’s some kind of guilt involved if we love ourselves too much, too vain, too selfish, not charitable enough. Well hey, be as charitable as you want, go over to their country and live there, give everything you own to them, but don’t harm the rest of us. That’s what I see, liberals enjoy dragging others down with them, like a junkie. They don’t want to be the only one doing it, they want everyone else to join in.

    As far as ethnic nepotism. I think some of it is still salient, especially North vs South.

    I also see a divide between the Celto-Germanics (the majority of the US) and the rest. Racialcompact.com makes an argument for this.

    Ethnic interests of the newer white immigrants are also more profound.

    If we have the revolution we want, who’s to say we must be one big nation? We could just as easily be two or more nations. I’m fine with either, but I might actually prefer the latter.

  5. Is there a filter to hold posts with links?

    I posted the same thing twice, because I wasn’t sure if it went through, but neither did. So just remove one.

  7. Is this guy schizophrenic or what?

    “OneSTDV:

    If we actively fight racialism within NAM communities, then white racialism is no longer needed. Any collectivism is inherently irrational in a free society where group stigmatization and/or discrimination doesn’t exist. In my mind, getting rid of “diversity” initiatives and reclaiming the racial dialogue is the best resolution to the problem of growing NAM power. White collectivism is unnecessary if conservatives are willing to challenge anti-white rhetoric (something only Rush, Savage, Coulter, and a few others are willing to do).

    I’m also in favor of (thanks to TUJ on Audacious Epigone) whites-only immigration due to the relative ease of assimilation and American-ism practiced by European immigrants. This would reduce minority racialism (and NAM anti-social behavior) further.”

    He’s against explicit white racialism, but he’s for whites-only immigration.

    Yeah okay, I’m not a white racialist either, I just think we should repatriate all non-whites, make citizenship for whites only, and also only allow white immigration, because that reduces white and non-white racialism. In a whites-only society, racialism wouldn’t be necessary and racism wouldn’t.

  9. Gee, if everyone would just believe an unequivocal American narrative all our problems would be solved. OneSTDV thinks this narrative should consist of “The breathtaking athleticism of Michael Jordan, the austere demeanor of Abe Lincoln, the bravery of American soldiers, and the beauty of Marilyn Monroe (to) connect each of us to common history” A common history of WHAT? An over paid ball bouncing Negro, a traitor to sovereignty and organic freedom and a drug addicted celebrity?

    With America’s seemingly endless wars, burning, bombing and displacing innocent civilians everywhere, many of them ending up in America and Europe sucking up resources, such an idea is already extreme pathology.

    What OneSTDV desires is an “unequivocal” American LIE and the most appallingly moronic one at that.

    The historical narrative of the European is not a history of “technology” or “capitalism” or “progress” or ball bouncing Negros. It is a historical narrative of culture. In modern times – Europeans alone have penned the historical narrative by rippening the fruits of the highest musical genius, the greatest architecture, the most awe inspiring sense of beauty and grace and it is these cultures alone that creates theological and philosophical specultion, moves and shapes history. The worlds modern historical narrative does not even exist without Europeans, But what do I know? What does anyone know? It is only valuable to those who place value on it, and only recognizable to those who see it.

    How about the unequivocal truth? No cultural critique or unequivocal narrative, not even the best education in art or literature can ever take the place of a person’s sensitiveness to life on earth. Ones hunger for beauty, truth, to taste the divine and to love openly, sensually and spiritually. This and this alone is the beginning and end of a persons “narrative.” And it is the collection of compelling peoples narratives, how they defy and embrace what the Divine puts to them, how they love and hate, this is what amounts to the cultural narrative, it is organic and alive. The only freedom, the only individualism that exists is the freedom to stand alone with a discerning eye to openly and freely judge moral and social ideals. The only society such a spirit can hope for is one comprised of individuals that would receive or refute the overflow of the reflection, the pregnant bursts of insight and imagination with pleasure.

    Art and culture have been shamefully abused and perverted from its true purpose, which is metaphysical, religious and magical, “it” is a mystery. “Culture” is not a narrative or a theory. It has been reduced to purposeless vulgar entertainment, a commodity, and not only entertainment but political ideology and fanatic empty “narratives.” That is all “art” and “culture “ represent today in America, entertainment and ideology.

    There is nothing in this idea of cultural “narrative” that enhances “individualism.” Quite the contrary.

    Jim Morrison was one of the only supra sensual, aristocratic artists America had. He has been dead for over thirty years. He is not a man for the masses. He seems otherworldly when compared to John Lennon, the adopted English man, who just about every American adores. But it was Jim Morrison who was not laboring under modern lunatic delusions. This fearless pagan spirit has nothing of the ache of modern disillusion or anxiety like Lennon. He naturally never had any illusions. He took things as they appear, and life as it appears and it somehow makes him seem rarer, a genuinely unique charisma painfully missed, and sadly an extinct creature, at least in popular culture.

    Southern pickers Mother Maybell and the Carter Sisters dressed up in flowing gowns reminiscent of the beautiful goddesses in baroque paintings singing and picking about love and Jesus, they were exactly what they are – organic American folk artists of blood and soil. They are women that could only be described as American Natives and they have also gone the way of dinosaurs. These southern beauties were the faces of American culture, if there ever was one. They are entirely different from anyone anywhere else in the world. And where are they now? They have been usurped and replaced by manufactured savages. And somehow this assault on the senses is rendered meaningless.

    And culture has been made irrelevant. All “it” is – is a “narrative.” OneSDTV explains : … “there are additional reasons for having a white (or any racial group) ethnostate. One of the most potent is the preservation of culture. Yet, such an argument presupposes culture has inherent value outside facilitating a common narrative amongst individuals. I don’t necessarily think culture has objective value.”

    This is more offensive then the worst type of pedantry.

    The defense of the ethno state rests precisely to get away from people like OneSDTV who would not want to live in an ethnically White only state, good. Hopefully Kid Rock won’t want to be there either.

  12. But much of it is ironically the most White region in America.
    Take out New Jersey, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburg, Baltimore, and Boston; and it’s likely the most White American region.

    But I would agree it’s the least ethnocentric for Whites, and thus the least or among the least likely regions for a White ethnostate.

    I would say the American Southwest is the least likely region for Whites to retain, as it’s already minority White and almost majority Hispanic. The Hispanics are actually more spread out in the Deep Southwest; therein, Whites are actually more concentrated. The Southwest also borders Mexico, which will be very ethnocentric against Whites after its likely revolution (and overthrow of (White) Spanish-ethnic elites)- and obviously side with the Brown Hispanics (instead of our US Federal Government).

  13. “Also, the multiethnic Northeast is the least likely location for a triumphant White ethnostate to emerge.”

    Sorry, I forgot to post the quote. It’s from Prozium’s post “More on the Ethnostate.”

  15. OneSTDV says it’s irrational to express racialism/collectivism in a free society.

    Actually it’s not, it gets you a leg up over the competition, as your group is working as a team while everyone else is divided and individualistic.

    I’ll tell you what’s irrational, continuing to be individualistic while other races work as a collective.

  17. What OneSDVT desires is plebian morality to conform and adjust, which certainly would not be difficult for a malicious, perverted or just plain retarded and unthinking uncritical soul devoid of a sense of beauty and depth. Besides Negro Sports figures, morally bankrupt politicians and celebrities he is equally enamored with what he calls “technology.” He does not seem to notice the entire planet is becoming a dump heap of plastic. There is a huge floating mass of this shit forming a fucking continent. Perhaps he should go live on it where he can worship technology in all of its glory. Perhaps it can become a new “Ellis Island of immigrants, eager to find success in the land of opportunity.”

    His admiration of “Asians” is equally disturbing as they notoriously eat everything and anything while totally ravaging the natural environment. Chinese deliberately poisoned their own people’s babies just to make a buck. Can you even imagine a White American or Native European dairy farmers or White farmers in the former common wealth intentionally poisoning baby formula to feed their own babies, for a few extra dollars? Is there any act more depraved? It makes the black African penchant for hunting down and cannibalizing albinos and pygmies for voodoo purposes seem more reasonable.

  18. I agree with Lena (#17), above. Asians are despicable. I live among some of them, mostly Chinese doctors, Korean business owners, and Indian entrepreneurs. They are unfriendly, dull, clique-ish, and slow-witted. Asian immigration adds little to nothing to American life. But it does benefit Asians. A friend of mine who recently travelled to China on a business trip reports seeing in a remote market rows of jars containing human fetuses, which the Chinese barbarians apparently consume. Asian students who attend the local university exhibit all the signs of ghetto culture. The much-vaunted ‘high Asian IQ,’ I suspect, is merely a myth, albeit one frequently communicated by RRs and respectable conservatives.

  19. … “–The much-vaunted ‘high Asian IQ,’ I suspect, is merely a myth, albeit one frequently communicated by RRs and respectable conservatives.–”
    ___

    Indeed Admiral, indeed! A myth perpetuated by the Jews, through the vehicle of “RR”, to justify and further demoralize non-prole Whites into accepting, or at least tolerating, their displacement and ultimate dispossession! 🙁

    “Harvard Hates Whites—Does America, Too?”
    ~ Edmund Connelly
    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/Connelly-Harvard.html

  20. After considerable back and forth with The Undiscovered Jew, who in frustration finally played the “Nazi” card, OneSTDV has warned that he intends to shut down the comments on More Thoughts on White Ethnostate.

    Please don’t go there to rant or OneSTDV may memory-hole the post entirely. Note from the URL that he originally titled the post “Last Thoughts…” and only later changed it to “More Thoughts…” The challenge for us is to keep him and his White readers thinking more thoughts.

  21. OD, I’m extremely impressed by the eloquence, ideas, and intelligence of you and your commentators.

    I’m a loyal national of the Gutenberg Galaxy (being probably twice your age) and don’t understand much of the computer jargon that’s the new lingua franca here.

    But from what I can tell, this site, along with toqonline, is working out the first conceptualization/imagination of what will be our future White Nation.

    Marchons, marchons!

    For Victory, Michael O’Meara

  22. “… Marchons, marchons! …”

    Qu’un sang impur, Abreuve nos sillons. …

    ~

    Thank you immensely for all your efforts on behalf of Our people, Michael!!

    You are a genuine hero. 🙂

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