The Vanguard
The term “lemmings” has long been a popular term of abuse for ordinary people among alienated vanguardists. It has been frequently used to poke fun at the unenlightened, herd like behavior of the conservative masses, who tend to do booboise things like organize, raise money, and vote in elections.
These ignorant hayseeds cannot see the superior wisdom of hiding out in a bunker, rejecting the political process, shunning moderates, failing to communicate, subscribing to conspiracy theories, waiting for “the collapse” of civilization, living in a fantasy world, navel gazing, insulting their audience, empowering our opposition, parading around in Nazi uniforms, and spending the majority of their time posting thousands of radical messages on online blogs and forums as an effective revolutionary political strategy.
You listen here, I will not forsake Satanism for the sake of “playing in Peoria.” We’ve made too many compromises already. A line must be drawn here. This far and no farther!
Here are some recent news items that reflect a veritable stampede of troubling lemming like behavior going on across America. I have already documented this nationwide movement of lemmings in Idaho, Utah, Texas, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Virginia, Iowa, and Wisconsin.
Nevada
In Nevada, state lawmakers in both chambers of the Nevada state legislature are gearing up to fight for E-Verify and an Arizona-style immigration law. There is another bill in the works which would impose an Oklahoma-style fee on illegal alien remittances to Latin America.
South Carolina
South Carolina has long been recognized as one of the states most likely to pass an Arizona-style immigration law in 2011. Republican lawmakers in the Palmetto State have confirmed that passing such a bill will be a “top priority” next year.
California
Some creative Tea Party restrictionists in California are attempting to run around Governor Elect Jerry Brown and the California state legislature by pushing an Arizona-style immigration law through the initiative process.
Even if the California initiative fails, Republican control of the House should prevent the federal government from pushing through an amnesty. That will keep some time on the clock in the Golden State.
Colorado
Colorado state lawmakers will attempt to push an Arizona-style immigration law through the state legislature. If that fails on account of a Hickenlooper veto, they will also go through the initiative process. A healthy majority of Coloradans support passing Arizona-style immigration reform in their own state.
Oklahoma
Oklahoma has been quietly cracking down on illegal immigration for several years now. State lawmakers there are pushing for an “Arizona plus” law that would abolish birthright citizenship and allow the state police to seize the vehicles driven by illegal aliens.
South Dakota
This morning brings news that South Dakota is another state that is working on “an Arizona-style bill to criminalize immigration-related offenses on the state level.”
In every case, let it be noted, the conservative lemmings did not get their way. Deval Patrick was reelected Governor of Massachusetts. Lincoln Chafee was elected Governor of Rhode Island on a promise to repeal E-Verify.
NumbersUSA “true reformer” candidates like Tom Tancredo in Colorado, Sharron Angle in Nevada, and Joe Miller in Alaska were defeated. Ken Buck lost to Michael Bennet (an F- on immigration). If they had won their races like Sen. David Vitter, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Lisa Murkowski would have been forced into retirement. Governor Tancredo would have signed an Arizona-style immigration law and any other good immigration bill to come across his desk.
Poor lemmings.
Will they ever learn that words are more powerful than deeds?
Note: In case you somehow missed it over the previous decade, tomorrow National Vanguard and VNN Forum will be airing the 1,045,476th encore episode of “Jews Suck” followed by “We’re Doomed.”
Update: United States National Counterterrorism Center statistics prove that “Neo-Nazi/Fascist/White Supremacists” are non-existent* as a terrorist threat. From 2001 to 2010, one Neo-Nazi killed one person in a terrorist attack, James von Brunn the Holocaust Museum shooter.
*The Northwest Front could not be reached for comment.
Rodger wrote: There is also a startling lack of Nordics in the population and several phenotypes that are rare to see nowadays.
Have any of you ever attended one of those Naturalization Oath of Allegiance Ceremonies that take place once or twice every month in every major city in the US? I guess not. I have, few years ago. I was one of those to take the oath. The scene was shocking. I suspected for quite some time that America was in trouble, but my knowledge of impending disaster was purely theoretical – I’ve never truly sensed it before that memorable day when I took the oath.
A huge crowd of thousands and thousands and thousands of people in endless line in front of a stadium. Believe it or not, it took me several minutes of pointed search to locate a white face in that crowd. Finally, I have spotted a Russian-speaking couple who turned out to be Jewish – I could tell by their looks.
Black, Yellow, Hindu, Latino – you could probably find somebody from any country in the world except European countries. The shock was … how could I explain it to you? Imagine a situation when you have being suspecting for a few years that your wife was cheating on you, with circumstantial evidence popping up here and there all the time. And one day you came home from work few hours before schedule and caught your wife with a Nigger. No doubts any more – you wish you would have stayed at work till 5:00 PM.
My wife insists we go home to Russia.
I hate to convey the feeling of depression I have experienced that day to you, but keeping head in the sand hardly could be a better service.
Don’t bother Hunter. I gave up on these people at the end of this summer. I’ve come to the conclusion that most of them won’t do anything in the real world because they don’t want to win: it’s just a form of entertainment to them. Like the Goth kids in high school, they get off on having the identity of an outsider rejected by the popular kids (mainstream whites).
Hunter: “Read the Kurtagic interview. Johnson describes how he was inhibited as TOQ Editor. He wasn’t able to attack Christianity or push vanguardism hard enough. Eventually, he lost his position there for that and many other reasons.”
Private information that you are privy to because you and Greg were once friends should remain private. In other words, gentlemen – keep the blows above the belt. Hunter, I believe you are financially secure due to your parents estate, so please show a little respect to those who battle against the wolf in person.
If a political solution were going to be done, it should have been done 20 years ago, not now. The European population in this country is down to 60 percent, maybe 63 percent if we count hispanics of pure European descent. This European core population can’t outbreed the black, brown and yellow masses already here or the third world tidal wave that washes upon our shores year after year after year. We either let the country collapse and salvage a White nation state from the remnants or militant fascists seize the government and throw the nonwhite invaders out.
William,
Quite right. Arguing with these fantasists is a complete waste of time.
In other news, Counter-Currents is angling for an alliance between White Nationalists and North Korea.
http://www.counter-currents.com/2010/11/reasons-to-admire-north-korea/
Now might be the appropriate time to launch the lifeboats.
There are plenty of mainstreamers that aren’t too concerned with Whites being displaced in our own countries. Plenty of mainstreamers that don’t care that White people are the victims of insane amounts of black-on-White crime. Plenty of mainstreamers that believe White Pride is synonymous with hate. Are those your opinions as well?
What more closely resembles the daily reality that an ordinary White person must deal with?
A) Vanguardists roaming the streets and killing people at random.
B) Non-Whites raping, robbing, assaulting, and murdering White men, women, and children.
The delicate sensibilities of the “mainstream” would force us to believe that (A) is somehow more of a reality than (B). At the very least, they would have us believe that a policy of voicing opposition to, and attacking, (B) is tantamount to (A). Sounds crazy, but it’s a fact.
That’s your Mainstream, Hunter. So, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the thought process of the Mainstream is every bit as fucked up as the lunatics you call Vanguardists. One is too far removed from practical action to do anything about our dilemmas. The other isn’t really concerned about White racial identity to put any kind of practical action into motion. They both kill you equally as far as I’m concerned.
Aside from the Internet and an occasional NSM street festival, how are these “Vanguardists” in any position to harm White people?
No, closer to an atheist version of Ron Paul and the sizable portion of people that supported him.
Honestly, you can compare me to whatever political enemy you need me to be. It doesn’t change my views.
While it is true that Ron Paul has never compromised his libertarian principles even after years alone in the wilderness, it is also true that he has never endangered his electability and visibility in the mainstream by going so far beyond the edge of the mainstream that he would lose all credibility.
Paul’s ideas are radical by mainstream standards but by the standards of the libertarian movement in general his ideas are really not that radical at all.
Paul is not, for example, a libertarian in the mold of Rand, Rothbard, Nozick or Hans Herman Hoppe. Paul might very well sympathize with some of their ideas like repealing the Civil Rights Act, abolishing the standing army and dismantling the entire welfare state, but if he does sympathize with those things he does not and probably will never say so in public.
So I don’t think Ron Paul’s career works as a parallel for uncompromising vanguard WN.
I see Ron Paul as more akin to David Duke and someone like Rothbard as akin to Pierce. Ron Paul never would have been elected in the first place and would thus have no visibility in the mainstream today had he campaigned on Rothbard’s platform .
Paul is a great example of working around the furthest edge of the mainstream, and I think some faction, segment or subset within the general WN movement would do well to model his approach; he is far enough outside of the mainstream that his ideas such as ending the Fed were and are considered radical yet he is not so far beyond the mainstream that he can’t get elected which would mean the loss of his national platform and with it all of his credibility.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a covert WN take another run at following this model, as Duke tried to do in Louisiana. If a covert WN Congressman could win and keep a seat in a safe red district and then start calling for closing the borders, deporting illegals, ending legal immigration, that would help to shift the paradigm and discourse in our direction on a political level and complement any work also being done on the cultural front.
Such a Congressman would of course be denounced as a kook and a whack job today, just as Ron Paul was denounced as a kook long ago, but in just a few more years, who knows who might be receptive to such a message? As conditions continue to deteriorate, a whole movement might blow up around such an individual in 5 to 10 years when people will likely to be ready for more radical message on immigration.
Of course, one sitting covert WN Congressman wouldn’t be able to fix a permanently broken system, but he could do a lot to inject the right ideas into the national debate. As HW has pointed out many times now, Blacks have been using this approach for years. Black elected officials call for reparations often for example.
In pro-White circles, the “mainstreamers” are represented by the likes of Sam Francis, CofCC, Amren and so forth. I know these people quite well and have never observed any lack of concern for negro criminality, racial double standards, or race replacement.
OTOH, I have observed that vanguardists complain endlessly on the internet about these subjects, but never prescribe any practical solutions to these problems. What are they doing to secure the border? What are they doing about interracial violent crime? What are they doing about racial double standards.
It looks to me like they do nothing but flap their gums and type on their keyboards.
Rational people work through the political process to find some type of solution. There are plenty of people in both the federal and state governments trying to cut legal immigration and expel illegal aliens. There are people working around the clock to abolish affirmative action. There are also federal and state lawmakers in office today who have voted for tougher anti-crime measures.
I noted in the OP that vanguardists talk a hard game about fomenting a violent insurrection but the actual statistics show that it is nothing but bluster and empty threats.
Returning to reality, violent crime has been in decline for years now after anti-crime legislation made its ways through Congress in the 1980s and 1990s.
Actually, we can work within the mainstream to solve most of our problems, whether it be violent crime, affirmative action, foreign wars, free trade policies, or immigration. OTOH, vanguardists do nothing but fantasize and daydream about solutions.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
David Duke was almost successful in his campaigns in Louisiana state politics. There was no follow up to his breakthroughs. There are still parts of the country where explicitly White candidates could run for elected office and win if they were savvy and intelligent enough to do so.
To borrow a phrase from Covington, vanguardism is a “sidetrack” that diverts pro-Whites into empty fantasism and escapism. It is a way of turning people who could potentially be effective into people who are unable to communicate with their own family members.
You are just a leftist posing as a White Nationalist.
You have openly stated here several times that you are a leftist. You are on the side of people who are infinitely worse than Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin.
Soultrean: Hunter was never a friend. I met him in person on four occasions at busy gatherings, and I would be surprised if I talked to him on the phone more than 10 times in a 10 month period. He pretends otherwise because it gives him credibility when he makes up lies about me.
I really wish Hunter would follow his advice and just dissolve himself into the mainstream. But he can’t. He would be nothing and nobody there. He busily urges White Nationalists to spend their time and money where it will have the least impact, so why doesn’t he do the same thing? Besides, he needs us to kick around.
Not exactly, Lew. Again, Ron Paul’s positions in the late 1980’s were far outside of mainstream discourse and his shellacking in the 1988 presidential election was evidence of that. Yet, somehow in 2008 he rebounded to become a serious contender to win the Republican presidential. The ideas he espoused in 1988, but which fell on deaf ears, has reached far and wide into the mainstream in 2010. I have my own theory on this but won’t comment on it now.
Even today Paul has alienated some with his contention that Islamic terrorism is largely driven by reckless U.S. foreign policy. This isn’t a popular stance and was met with groans and guffaws in conservative and neo-conservative quarters and among FOX newstards. Rudy Giuliani took to grandstanding and loudly demanded Ron Paul apologize and renounce his views on our middle east policy during a debate in 2008. Remember?
I disagree with Ron Paul in several areas, but I respect the fact that he has principles and sticks to them regardless of popular approval or disapproval. This is in stark contrast to what a select few are advising WN’s to do. And that is to lick their fingers and stick it into the wind to see which way it’s blowing so as to attract as many as possible and avoid alienating anyone.
I lived with William Rome in Virginia. He witnessed the Greg Johnson meltdown in April and May. Greg called us repeatedly throughout that period. That shitstorm went on for weeks and then well into the summer after Rome had returned home.
I became disillusioned with Johnson after it became clear he was obsessed with money. He would call and talk about nothing but money for hours on end. Johnson literally had us doing backflips trying to save his job.
This comes through clearly in this thread. It is telegraphed in everything (see the interview) that Johnson writes these days. His primary concern is that you spend your money subsidizing his lifestyle in San Francisco. Just the other day he compared financial donations to an oasis in the desert or a shower of manna from heaven.
I would love to debate Johnson on this topic.
According to Imagine2050, the Pioneer Fund provided a hefty portion of the start up capital behind FAIR, CIS, and NumbersUSA which works within the mainstream to support “system politicians” who endorse the restrictionist position on immigration.
CIS and FAIR are testifying before Colorado state legislators tomorrow (Nov. 29) in support of an Arizona-style immigration law under consideration in the 2011 legislative session.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1239064
OTOH, Counter-Currents is defending Satanism, denouncing Christianity, showering praise upon obscure European fascists, and advocating strategic alliances with North Korea right now.
I’m the one urging White Nationalists to spend their time and money on causes that will have the least impact?
Hunter, you always find someone to fight with. You dress it up in highfalutin rhetoric, but the bottom line is you like to joust on the net. Greg Johnson isn’t the enemy in reality. He’s only your sparring partner here in the twilight zone.
I’ve reopened these two threads. If the discussion takes a productive turn, they will remain open.
“Dingo doesn’t get it: The people predicting collapse are the optimists. They are trying to give people hope.”
Exactly. I wouldn’t know about what happened in the past but i’d say that’s true now. I think WN could have done better over the decades since the war by copying what the CP did in using false front stepping stone orgs as a kind of conveyor belt from the mainstream to the radical right however i doubt that would have been enough to win while the post-war prosperity kept people docile. The other side knows how vital it is to keep prosperity going as a tranquiliser that’s why they’re desperately printing money to hold it together. Economic problems are good because it makes people lose faith in their leaders which means they are more open to persuasion.
“Mad Max movie”
I read somewhere recently, maybe here, that during Katrina a black mob marched on a white suburb over a bridge but were driven back by warning shots from cops. If those cops hadn’t been there what would have happened? France, Germany, UK, USA aren’t two welfare checks away from Mad Max but Paris, Berlin, London and Washington DC are. Scaring people by pointing that out is good.
Will Williams,
You have mentioned that you were banned from posting on VNN. I was wondering why.I am also banned on VNN; the excuse was my mentioning that, according to John Kaminski, Dr Paul Craig Roberts was crypto-jew. But as you can see clearly from the following VNN thread, the real reason for banning was Linder’s overblown ego:
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=112146”
Who would have thought that Hunter Wallace offers greater freedom of expression than Alex Linder?
I am not Russian, although I am a circassian who was born in Russia.
Will Williams,
Most of what you have said about Dr Pierce and his legacy in the thread Nagging Little Voices (is it locked?) sounds true to me.
The first time I heard of Dr Pierce was when I, quite accidentally, stumbled upon his ADV broadcast How It Fits Together, which was btw one of his last broadcasts in 2002:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fdVaSGTfjM
As soon as I was done reading the last sentence of that particular broadcast, I knew instantly: I have discovered a giant of the magnitude I have never seen before. From that moment on, I wanted to know everything written or spoken by this man. There isn’t a single ADV broadcast by Dr Pierce from 1992 to the day he died in 2002 I haven’t listened to at least couple of times. When it comes to the depth of insight into what’s happening in the world, in particular the plight of White people, there is only one person I can put next to Dr Pierce – William Simpson. Simpson was a generation ahead of Dr Pierce, and he wasn’t involved nearly as much as Dr Pierce in down-to-earth revolutionary activism. If I may resort to the sort of analogy used by George Rockwell, Simpson was to WN what Marx was to Communism and Dr Pierce was to WN what Lenin was to Communism. What White nationalism is missing badly today is the counterpart of Stalin.
Btw, Dr Pierce, like everybody else, wasn’t completely free of the adverse effects of jewish brainwashing. No matter how hard I looked into his legacy, I couldn’t find anything that would remotely indicate that Dr Pierce understood what Stalin was all about. Neither did Hitler. Stalin saw Hitler as an important and a potential ally against the Jew. But Hitler never understood the fight Stalin undertook against the Jews shortly after he consolidated his grip on power in the Soviet bureaucracy. Have you heard of The Great Purge of 1936-1938, Will? What was all that about? Why did the mighty Red Army lose the military campaign of 1939 against Finland? Have you heard of names like Trotsky, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Radek, Marshal Tukhachevsky, etc? Who were these people, what happened to them, and why? Listen to the following RFM broadcast where Jim Giles reads my Q&A letter about matters related to Joseph Stalin ( I am sorry to subject you to the torture of enduring Giles’ modus operandi, but on the flip side, his absolutely unpredictable ad hoc interviews and conversations with ordinary people can be very illuminating):
http://www.radiofreemississippi.net/audio/RFM-2010-11-28-AMBroadcast.mp3
Another mistake by Dr Pierce of paramount importance – he stuck in the self defeating dichotomy “Whites against Nonwhites”. I strongly believe the solution to almost all major world problems is to be sought in the “Gentiles against Jews” paradigm. It doesn’t mean that Whites have to be friends with all Nonwhites, neither does it mean that Whites should mix with Nonwhites. Whites and Nonwhites are not enemies – they are competitors and adversaries, but not mortal enemies, at least, they should not act as mortal enemies. Whites and Nonwhites cannot afford to be enemies in the presence of the Jew. Whites cannot win the battle against all Nonwhites with the Jews on the side of Nonwhites, period. Whites should seek cooperation from all Nonwhites, including even Blacks, and get rid of the Jews not just in the US and Europe but in the entire world. If the Jew is simply driven out, he will creep back again, as he did hundreds of times since the time of pharaohs.
Maybe it wasn’t so clear 40 years ago when Dr Pierce started his nationalist movement, but I am reasonably sure he would gradually come to similar conclusions if he was alive today.
Ivan,
I was banned from VNN purely to satiate Linder’s ego:
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/01/02/censored-at-vnn-the-post-alex-linder-doesnt-want-read/
I’m sure you remember the incident, since you came here to defend Alex at the time, writing the following:
“You at OD and TOQ will be well advised to learn from Alex Linder how to debate, how to identify your enemies, and how to fight them. There is something in Alex that reminds me of Bobby Fischer – sense of justice and fighting spirit perhaps.”
Would you still praise Linder’s “sense of justice” today, I wonder?
So, will William Rome vouch for Hunter’s lies?
Hunter has a pattern: When he really, really wants to put a lie over, he brings other people in to vouch for him. He does this, of course, because he has no credibility. In instances like this, where I already knew the truth, I knew outright he is lying. In other cases, when I was not sure what the real story was, I called the people he named and found out that, yet again, Hunter Wallace was lying.
I think that OD would take a productive turn if Hunter Wallace were locked out and all of his lies and posturing were deleted. It would be best for Hunter too. I sense that he is headed for another psychotic episode.
Greg Johnson says:
November 29, 2010 at 9:27 pm
“I think that OD would take a productive turn if Hunter Wallace were locked out and all of his lies and posturing were deleted.”
Jack Ryan replies:
Greg, O.D. is Hunter’s blog. One can not kick a man out of his own home/blog.
🙂
Ivan, I just read about your people here: http://www.circassian-genocide.info/ We’ve all heard of the alleged Jewish genocide, and many of us are aware of the Armenian genocide, but few have ever learned of the Circassian genocide. Lots more background here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians
Imagine that, you were banned from VNN. A viable resistance could practically be built around those Linder has banned over the years. Jimmy Guiles asked me that same question about why I had been banned from VNN. Linder gave several reasons: 1. Will Williams is always right. 2. Will Williams is a 60-year old teenager [?] (My wife liked that one) 3. I had defied Linder and wrote that until proven otherwise the “satirist” Commander Bill White was both a Jew and a federal informant. There were a couple of other lame reasons he gave since I was banned more than once, but I forget what they were now. He did say once that, “With this banning of Will Wiliams VNN breaks it’s last connection with William Pierce’s old National Alliance.” That was a weird statement if ever I heard one, considering how many lament the demise of Dr. Pierce’s old NA.
I don’t agree that “Hunter” is much more tolerant to a free exchange of ideas than Linder is. I had one post removed 11 times by “Hunter’s” ace mod Jack Ryan just a week or so ago here, and it was only Robert Campbell’s persistence at maintaining even-handedness that got it put back up each time until Jack’s access to the OD delete button was finally curtailed. “Hunter” didn’t give a damn about any “free exchange.” On his defunct OD forum, he or his flunky “H.Rock” would delete my posts, edit them or send them to their “Trash” where Pastor Mad Dog could give the perception I was “feuding” with him, though I never once responded to the nut. “Hunter” and his hobbyist frat boys love HAC’s fantasy fiction, just like Linder used to fawn over his “brilliant” writing; and Guiles, and even Greg Johnson, who by now I’d have thought would have realized HAC is hard to wash off once you’ve been stained by him.
Apparently “Hunter” locked the Lemmings stampede thread and the Nagging voices thread, but not before he took a shot at me here: http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/11/28/lemmings-stampede/comment-page-2/#comment-124572
—
Hunter Wallace says:
November 29, 2010 at 12:39 am
“How can this be? The National Alliance has existed for decade now. According to Will Williams, William Pierce created an effective revolutionary cadre decades ago.”
—
I never said that and don’t appreciate his putting words in my mouth then not allowing me to respond to his closed thread. “Decade?” That’s almost how long “Hunter” claims he’s been playing at being WN. Anybody paying any attention at all knows by now that the current National Alliance no longer conforms to Dr. Pierce’s long-term model of careful cadre-building. “Hunter” simply detests Pierce and his loyalists, probably as much as Linder does.
Another thing. I posted this last night to one of “Hunter’s” now-closed threads:
—
Will Williams says:
November 29, 2010 at 12:31 am
Celestial Time says:
“…[I]n case it’s gone unnoticed, everything not in lock-step with Hunter’s pussified mantra is “Vanguardist.”
—
Amen, CT. “Hunter’s” nonsense hasn’t gone unnoticed by me.
He likes to run down Dr. Pierce and his National Alliance as “alienated vanguardist hicks” disinclined and incapable of influencing electoral politics. He mentioned Ron Paul’s presidential bid in 2008. I, “Hunter’s” prototypical “vanguardist hick,” easily reached out to the mainstream electorate during Dr. Paul’s campaign, was in charge of my county, even received nearly 12,000 votes in the statewide Tennessee Republican primary to be a delegate at the Republican convention. How can that possibly be? That doesn’t fit “Hunter’s” model at all. http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2008/03/ap-reports-on-neo-nazi-ron-paul.html
I have a Washington Post clipping around here somewhere from 2000 that laments how Dr. Pierce’s so-called “vanguardist” National Alliance members were seeing success in ensuring that Pat Buchanan’s Reform Party be “White-friendly.” I’ll find that and post it here to further debunk “Hunter’s” false “vanguardist v. mainstreamer” blather.
—
Here’s the follow-up link to the WP article I’d promised: http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9342/washpostbuchananarticle.jpg
One would be hard-pressed to find that clipping on the ‘Net, but it’s a good example of how White loyalists can infiltrate “mainstream” political campaigns and radicalize them to some extent.
There’s no date on that WP clipping, but a good researcher would discover that soon after that appeared Pat Buchanan tagged the Negress Ebola Foster to be his Reform Party running mate, which, incidentally, thoroughly demoralized his base and torpedoed his campaign. Was that backpeddling blunder of Pat’s a reaction to the “mainstreamers'” hue and cry that he was associating with “Nazis?” Some would say yes. So much for the mainstreamers.
Leather ain’t cheap.
Mr Dithers, I left you a longish response last might before I realized the thread was locked. Instead of reproducing it, I will just say I am interested in hearing your Ron Paul theory if you ever care to present it here or elsewhere. It seems to me Paul’s career is a good example of how someone persistently working within the system can bring previously radical ideas to the forefront of the national conversation.
Robert Campbell asked: Would you still praise Linder’s ‘sense of justice’ today, I wonder?
Fair enough, Robert. My views on things – be that world events, social theories, historical figures, or ordinary people – are not carved in stone. They are in perpetual flux; I adjust them constantly as new and more reliable information comes along my way. Common sense + evidence -> conclusion; common sense + more evidence -> better conclusion; … ad infinitum. I believe in that formula. And Alex Linder is no exception to the rule, nobody is.
Hunter is telling the truth. Whether we were in the office, leaving for the gym, or getting something to eat it seemed almost daily Johnson was calling Hunter to complain about the shitstorm going on at TOQ.
Hunter is telling the truth about doing everything he could to help Johnson out. In fact he went against me and H. Rock White who were brutal in our advice such as “Fuck the faggot, if he can’t do his job let him get fired” or “If Johnson’s gonna self-destruct let him”. But no Hunter said he was a good friend and wanted to help Johnson anyway he could. Johnson self-destructed by his own stubbornness and delusional fantasies.
So Greg quit being a drama queen by coming over here to make every post of Hunter’s a pissing match because Hunter is actually encouraging people to do something useful instead of paying for your eccentric lifestyle in the most expensive city in America. If you want to immerse yourself in Neo-Fascist nonsense that has nothing to do with American whites and their heritage and culture thats fine, whatever floats your boat. But don’t act like you’re creating the foundation for the salvation of our people. All you’re doing is trying to wrap your eccentric personal tastes in a robe a white interests thereby giving them some legitimacy so people will pay you to indulge in them instead of doing anything productive.
There will be no immigration cut off in the USA.
The corrupt elites who run the USA need new consumers pouring in here all the time, and they especially need their children. The elites are bloodsuckers who feed not only economically on the White and non White masses but also on their life force and life energy, and for this they especially need children. And since Whites are not having enough children they have to let in millions of non Whites and their children to feed on their energy. They need the life force of others to survive.
In reality, I lived with four other people during my stay in Virginia. All of them witnessed the Greg Johnson meltdown. There are dozens of other people not associated with this website who witnessed it from beginning to end. This includes his former employers who fired him.
We had absolutely nothing to do with Greg Johnson losing his job. Greg himself knows this. His problems had been going on for months before I even knew about it. In fact, we bent over backwards to save his job, going so far as to offer to help him catch up the TOQ journal.
It quickly became apparent that Johnson was obsessed with money. He would call and talk about nothing else but money for hours on end. Those familiar with the story know the details of how Greg’s obsession with money lasted well into the summer and then into the fall.
After watching Johnson’s spectacular decline, I concluded that I would be better off not working for TOQ (I still volunteer) or accepting donations on this website. It wasn’t worth fighting with sharks all day over a such a small pool of resources.
He can have the “shower of manna” from heaven. I have found other ways to finance my projects.
Yeah.
OD would take a productive turn if we advocated alliances with North Korea, advocated the destruction of America, denounced Christianity, heaped praise every day upon obscure European fascists, and then advised our readers to abstain from backing “system politicians” who advance our objectives on immigration.
Then we would be doing something really productive here. That’s a much better way to spend our time: stewing in alienation, lashing out, marginalizing ourselves even further.
If only “Hunter” were as dogged in speaking the truth as he is in telling lies . . .
Greg Johnson is probably telling the truth. I’ve spent the past couple of months on this site being highly critical of Hunter Wallace and his defense was to manufacture a whole slough of lies about things I allegedly said. If someone has no truth in them you can’t trust their motivations.
I think the comments here are getting way, WAY too personal on this thread.
Lot’s of personal, bitter feuds in American White Nationalism, White Conservative politics that flirts with racial issues are solely based on the fact that our side often loses, and their is no money in doing the activism we do – it’s very bad for our careers, social lives and when things don’t go well, as is often the case, people turn on each other, blame others for their disappointments, failures.
The reality is that very, very few people make any kind of money or a living working full time in American White nationalism, writing for magazines, or on-line forums discussing such issues. That’s life.
Hunter, how about just not allowing personal insults in the comments. Even when things have turned sour, folks can part ways and agree to disagree and wish folks the best in the future.
And what is best for most folks is for them to get off the net, get decent jobs and live, act, play do activism in the real world.
Jack, I am willing to let bygones be bygones if Hunter is willing to produce a list of the lies, half-truths, distortions, and cheap shots he has directed against me and my associates since May, acknowledges what they are, and apologizes. In exchange, I will apologize for making fun of his appearance and his history of mental problems.
“The reality is that very, very few people make any kind of money or a living working full time in American White nationalism, writing for magazines, or on-line forums discussing such issues. That’s life.”
Well, this is off topic, but unless the content is coming from someone like Pat Buchanan or Bill Kristol, I don’t know how anyone can earn a living solely off of writing these days, inside or outside the WN world. There are so many good bloggers that I almost never look at mainstream opinion commentary any more. If I want to read kosher con analysis, for example, the comments section at freerepublic or redstate.com usually has more interesting content than National Review Online. And this is also true for liberal analysis — the comments in the HuffPo’s comments section are often better than the output of their paid journalists. Often the best writers are the ones work for free or for modest amounts which I think describes most WN writers.
Greg Johnson says:
November 30, 2010 at 1:47 am
Jack, I am willing to let bygones be bygones if Hunter is willing to produce a list of the lies, half-truths, distortions, and cheap shots he has directed against me and my associates since May, acknowledges what they are, and apologizes. In exchange, I will apologize for making fun of his appearance and his history of mental problems.
Jack Ryan replies:
That’s asking too much of any man. And this is Hunter’s blog/home – so you are basically hanging around in his place ragging on him.
As I said in my last post, these kinds of personal feuds are very, very common in American White nationalism and the cause as I stated is that it’s usually not a lot of success, $ money, women, good jobs, social status to work for pro White causes in America and that causes resentments, we take it out on each other.
My suggestion is for you to just put the past behind you and walk away from here and get back in to regular life and away from WN for awhile. Once you have some success in regular life, the folks around you might listen to your/our views on racial issues.
And our failures, your disappointments are not all the fault of Hunter or anyone else, that’s just the way it is.
People need to MoveOn
Jack Ryan: “I think the comments here are getting way, WAY too personal on this thread.”
They most certainly have. It is time for OD and CC to put each other on ignore. Goat dancing doesn’t do anyone any good, reader or participant.
This soap opera with Johnson has been drawn out long enough.
Hunter,
Agreed.
Will,
(1) I haven’t personally censored your posts. I could have easily done so because you have been flaming and riding hobby horses. Don’t tax my patience.
(2) I admire William Pierce for his sincerity and conviction. I think he was genuine. Aside from that, I think he was flat out mistaken in terms of his strategy. The swift demise of the National Alliance is proof of that.
Don’t act like Pierce himself didn’t have a hand in turning over his organization to Gliebe and Strom. Even when Pierce was alive, the National Alliance never made any real advances in West Virginia or any other state.
(3) I haven’t said anywhere that vanguardists are unwilling to run inept political campaigns. See Jim Giles or Glenn Miller. I wrote a thread about Glenn Miller’s Senate campaign in Missouri a few weeks ago.
(4) You don’t seem to have realized that your own experience is a beautiful illustration of the superiority of the “mainstreamer” model. Sheer partisanship and voter ignorance alone is sufficient to provide even an inept candidate with thousands of votes.
The overwhelming majority of people who voted for “Will Williams” as a Republican delegate had no clue who you were. When I last voted for delegates in Alabama, I didn’t know who I was voting for either.
If you received 12,000 votes in Tennessee, that alone is thousands of more people than the National Alliance ever claimed among its nationwide membership. It is a useful illustration of what a clever White Nationalist could do as his baseline.
James Russell recently ran for Congress in New York. If I am not mistaken, I believe he won the Republican nomination and over 35 percent of the vote in his district. That’s in spite of being outed as a White Nationalist on MSNBC.
As a relative newcomer without relationships to the people I see feuding here I can say that I’ve appreciated the perspectives of most of the people that post here. Anonymous or not, or the most effective use of time or not, online posts and comments DO reach people. I don’t completely agree with everything Mr. Wallace OR Mr. Johnson has said but I’m glad to have been exposed to the ideas of each.
That said, I’m curious as to your personal position on Christianity, Mr. Wallace? It may be public knowledge that I’ve missed reading here, and I hope I don’t offend by asking.
“Lemmings Stampede”
They are lemmings in the sense that they believe their efforts will even be sufficient to stave off the ruination of their narrow and selfish bourgeois interests. They believe they are accomplishing something when in fact they accomplish nothing. All visible trends they associate with the loss of their country will continue apace, that is until they come to advocating for their interests on explicitly racial grounds. Until then, they remain lemmings. Hunter can write whatever he likes to the contrary, till he turns blue in the face, but nothing shall refute that simple fact.
Although I am not a Christian myself, I have a positive attitude toward Christianity. I don’t think you can persuasively argue against a 2,000 year old religion on the basis of its corruption by Marxist infiltrators over the past 100 years.
Every other secular institution in our society has been corrupted. The Church is no exception. The universities were lost decades before the churches began to change their tune on race. In the South, the Southern Baptist Convention finally got around to condemning racism … in the 1990s.
If White Nationalists had a brain, they would take a page out of the book of their enemies. They would take back their churches instead of surrendering them to their opposition. They would work with Christians instead of mocking their faith and being unnecessarily offensive.
Over at Counter-Currents, they are talking up Iran and arguing for an alliance with North Korea. I’m not sure what else I can say at this point. If you think that sort of material is helping our cause, there is no hope for you.
Hunter,
Instead of begging Johnson for advice on Game why not take your own advice and join a church if you want some pussy. A couple of professions of your belief that Jebus Is Risen and you’ll be in like Flynn. Really, it ain’t that hard.
Captainchaos,
I can’t help but notice a suspicious absence of that sort of radical talk among our opposition. Whenever I read their websites, I see them organizing, raising money, endorsing candidates, getting out the vote. I think they have a much better grasp on political reality than most White Nationalists.
Hunter,
Join a church a get right with da Lawd. Crafting a facade to get what one wants out of life shouldn’t be that hard for a narcissist – which is, after all, pretty well their stock in trade.
I’m surprised a size queen like Johnson would push for this alliance.
Will Williams wrote: We’ve all heard of the alleged Jewish genocide, and many of us are aware of the Armenian genocide, but few have ever learned of the Circassian genocide
The 2014 Winter Olympics, officially known as the XXII Olympic Winter Games, will be the next Winter Olympics held from February 7 to February 23, 2014 in Sochi, Krasnodar Krai, Russia.
As we get closer to 2014, you’ll hear a lot more about Circassian genocide for the following reasons:
(1) Sochi used to be the heartland of Circassian territory.
(2) 2014 – 1864 = 150 since the tragic events of the Great Circassian Exodus of 1864.
(3) Jews will try to play Circassian card against Russians and use us, Circassians, as pawns, just like they did with Chechens in the so-called First Chechen War under Yeltsin, and the Second Chechen War under Putin. In fact, they’ve already started doing that: The puppet government of Mikheil “Tie-Chewing” Saakashvili pushing the recognition of Circassian genocide through the parliament of Georgia.
Saakashvili eats his tie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid379OjuC0
When you see a push for genocide recognition – look for a jewish muzzle somewhere in the background.
Captainchaos says:
They are behaving like lemmings because they don’t know any better. They are busy people. They have jobs, families, kids and elderly parents to care for. They are harried, overtaxed, and overburdened on every front. Meanwhile, they have lived or are living every second of their lives submerged in Jewish propaganda so they have no way to discern the key issues with what little time they do have to consider matters other than the details of their own lives.
Very few of us were born fully formed like Athena out of the head of Zeus with our nationalist ideas fully formed. Most of us were influenced toward where we stand today by great men who came before us, either thinkers like Yockey or historical figures like Hitler, or, more recently, writers like Pierce, Francis, Buchanan, Duke and MacDonald.
It is the stewardship of we contemporary WN that is problem, not the so-called lemmings, because we have done a lousy job communicating to our unenlightened contemporaries what others once communicated to us.
We need to diagnose why we have been so ineffective. Obviously there are a many reasons most out of our control but HW has done a good job the last few months analyzing where we have gone wrong with the little we can control.
Ivan says: “Will Williams wrote: We’ve all heard of the alleged Jewish genocide, and many of us are aware of the Armenian genocide, but few have ever learned of the Circassian genocide
The 2014 Winter Olympics, officially known as the XXII Olympic Winter Games, will be the next Winter Olympics held from February 7 to February 23, 2014 in Sochi, Krasnodar Krai, Russia.
As we get closer to 2014, you’ll hear a lot more about Circassian genocide for the following reasons:
(1) Sochi used to be the heartland of Circassian territory…”
I know. My wife is Russian and we honeymooned on a Black Sea beach in Sochi — the “Russian Riviera,” the northernmost sub-tropical spot on our shrinking little home planet. You mentioned Mr. Stalin. We saw Koba’s dacha and so much more in the week we were there because my bride dragged me on an excursion every day. I remember our tour guides were so proud that Mr. Putin had recently stayed there at their fancy Radisson. I was told by a Russian employed at our hotel that I was the only American he had seen that year (2003), and the tourist season was nearly over at the time.
Perhaps we can chat privately about some of the questions you posed concerning the complicated history of Messrs Hitler and Stalin. The best essay I recall on the subject was Dr. Pierce’s tribute to AH, The Measure of Greatness, on what would have been his 100th birthday. I’ve still got that April, 1989, issue of National Vanguard magazine in my personal library. Find that tribute here at this excellent archive of Dr. Pierce’s body of work” http://www.thule-italia.net/devi/devi/library.flawlesslogic.com/measure.htm An excerpt:
—
“Hitler’s opponents, Churchill and Roosevelt, were party politicians, with the minds and souls of party politicians. Great, impersonal goals, just as truth, meant nothing at all to them. The only thing that counted was the approval or disapproval of their times: the outcome of the next election, a good press claque, votes. Only Stalin shared in any way Hitler’s disdain for approval; only Stalin was motivated to any degree by an impersonal idea. But the idea that Stalin served was the alien, destructive idea of Jewish Marxism. And while Hitler served the Life Force with the instincts of a seer, Stalin served Marxism with the instincts of a bureaucrat and a butcher. A comparison of careers leads us to a similar ranking of greatness of soul. Churchill and Roosevelt were born into the political establishment. They fed at the public trough for years, in one office after another, grabbing greedily at opportunities for a bigger serving of swill. But it was circumstance, not their own efforts, which thrust them onto the stage of world history.
“Stalin hacked out his own niche in history to a much greater extent than his western allies, and he was an incomparably stronger man than either of them. He was tough, ruthless, infinitely cunning, and utterly determined to prevail, no matter what the obstacles. Even so, his struggle for prominence and power was entirely within the Bolshevik party and its predecessors. He was the consummate bureaucratic infighter, not the innovator or the lone pioneer.
“Only Adolf Hitler started literally from nothing and through the exercise of a superhuman will created the physical basis for the realization of his vision. In 1918, recovering in a veterans’ hospital from a British poison-gas attack, he made the decision to enter politics in order to serve that vision. He was a 29-year-old invalid, with no money, no family, no friends or connections, no university education, and no experience. Liberals, Jews, and communists ruled his country, making him and all those to whom he might appeal for support outsiders.
“Five and one-half years later he was sentenced to five years in prison for his political activity, and his enemies thought that was the end of him and his movement. But less than nine years after being sentenced he was Chancellor of Germany, with the strongest and most progressive nation in Europe at his command. He had built the National Socialist movement and led it to victory over the organized opposition of the entire Establishment: conservatives, liberals, communists, Jews, and Christians…”
HW admonishes WW: “Will, (1) I haven’t personally censored your posts. I could have easily done so because you have been flaming and riding hobby horses. Don’t tax my patience.
Why would you personally censor me when you had jack ryan here, or “H.Rock” at the now Memory-Holed OD forum doing it for you, with your knowledge, with impunity?
I don’t flame and I haven’t ridden a hobby horse since I was two.
Patience? You don’t know patience, Butterfly. I’m still here, thanks to even-handed Robert Campbell. Your hand was forced over your ridiculous Covingtonista and OD censor ryan’s removal of my first post here 11 times when I had violated no OD posting rules. Hell, you had to make up a bunch of posting rules for censor jack t to give ODers after my first post cleared and brought things to a nice head, remember?
My guess is that you had to close Nagging Voices because of the collective ridicule by ODers of jack ryan for his testing of their patience. jack tested my patience, and here I am. Where’s that other ridiculous censor of yours, “Hiram R. White?” That Manson lookalike tested my patience good. Where’s he now, “Hunter?”
BTW, where’s defendant Covington? Did he spurn your invitation? If he shows up, ask him about testing my patience. Ask him about that constant, nagging little voice in his paranoic gray matter, the one with the irritating Southern accent.
Straight-shooter Robert Campbell won’t ban me because I’ve given him my word I’d not give him cause to, and I won’t. jack ryan gave you plausible deniability before he was curbed. That leaves you, “Hunter.” Now you’ll have to censor me yourself whenever our free exchange of ideas makes you squirm.
In your first response here after Dr. Campbell kept my censored posting up, you welcomed me by telling OD readers that I’m a “raging alcoholic.” I only know of two men who have ever made that accusation: the convict-“satirist,” “Commander” Bill White, and nutcase Jimmy Guiles. Guiles told his “radio” fans (on one of his ‘2-beer’ broadcasts) that his “blue-tick fuckin’ nose” somehow detected alcohol on my breath in an “off-air” phone call we’d had the night before. You fit in that ilk now; you’re a trio, “Hunter.” Even HAC isn’t eligible for your exclusive Liar’s Club.
(1) The only reason you are posting here (unlike everywhere else where you have been banned) is because I am reasonably tolerant of opposing views. You post here at my sole discretion.
(2) I closed the Nagging Little Voices thread because it was a distraction. I was busy working on my Colorado post. I later reopened it.
(3) H. Rock White has been busy with work this fall. We have been in contact. I suspect he will return.
(4) It was Matt Parrott’s idea to close the forum. It had become an embarrassing distraction primarily because it was being used by people like you to rehash old feuds that no one else cares about.