Dixie
Friday night drinking … It occurs to me that the Holy Trinity of Western decline can be briefly summed up as 1.) Christian heresy, 2.) secular fantasy ideology, and 3.) Jewish influence.
Discuss.
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Joel Osteen is the very picture of perverted Christianity. That guy exudes evil.
There may have been some negative effects for the ordinary white living in a slave state, I don’t know. But they are nothing compared to the negative effects of having the idea of slavery elevated to the highest of moral sins, and its consequent notion of extreme individual liberty being the highest of moral goods. Something is seriously screwed up in our heads, and it has to do with this issue. I think as whites it would be healthier to err on the side of slavery as a fact of life. It may not be for us. And being a bad slave owner is certainly high on the list of sins. But we must rework the framework of slavery in our cultural paradigm, along with the WW2 narrative, in order to be free again.
Slavery is immoral because it is theft: theft of another man’s labor, theft of his dignity, and theft of his personal autonomy.
Yes; good job.
Theft is wrong
Slavery is theft.
Therefore, slavery is wrong.
But, you still have to recognize a type of universal morality for this argument to work.
Lew,
That argument depends on the capacity of the individual to manage their own affairs. It’s quite possible that a form of enslavement is preferable to prison for example.
One of the inovations of the Normans in England after 1066 was to open their first prisons. Slavery was technically abolished, but the English were introduced to dungeons. Before that the incompetent were enslaved, the dangerously criminal executed. The South in a very curious way revived the pre Norman system. People were put to useful tasks in a stratified hierarchical society instead of being left to rot in jails.
…If they couldn’t abide being useful and reoffended enough they were speedily lynched as outlaws. It was a workable system. Not a liberal utopia but quite productive and well adapted to a time and a place. Certainly NOT immoral.
@John
If your speaking strictly of the Antebellum South, then that’s an invalid argument. Negroes in the South were not pre-existing, organic, elements of that society. They were an alien organism, imported for the specific purpose of laboring against their will for the benefit of a race which that had no relation to. Such an arrangment was and is perverse, and indefensible.
It’s also theft to steal from producers to feed people who can’t fend for themselves. Do we steal loot from producers or time from the lazy? I’m for the latter.
Generally the black slaves were debtors, war prisoners or the simple minded. Perhaps a long term error to bring them. But not immoral. You might call into question the morality of a society that grinds down people into penury in the first place. We get to luxuriate in an age that has virtually free energy. Yaks that away and the whips cone out again.
Jews are an incredibly worthy adversary in the civic arena, let’s fight one we can win folks. Historically Jewish isolation is harmful whether it leads to a lack of white consciousness as elites (over an admittedly, by Gottfried hostile majority) or pyrrchic victories against them.
Equalitarianism, socialism, neoliberalism, anti colonialism, unchecked immigration are the enemies.
So are people of all creeds and races that support those harmful ideas.
Anti- Semitism has outgrown its use for Whites since Jews thrive and bear no ill will towards other Whites as Whites in America.
Black Christians and black Jews (Toure) are problematic for a society seeking not just cohesion & prosperity but dialogue at a high level. Blacks of all stripes and spots will always lower the discourse. Google: ‘niggawhine’.
Stonelifter is right.
People here are soft on subhumans, I’d then add: And hard on the whitest highest IQ real religion (sorry Mormon cult), Judaism. We taught Israelis how to deal with subhumans ( Orde Wingate, et al), they’ve had quite a few innovations in the field over the past decades. Study up.
Yaks should be ” take”.
I disagree vehemently that Jewish isolation is remotely harmful. The periodic flushing Jewish influence was part of healthy white culture for a thousand years. It worked.
But that is something we can agree to disagree on. I’m happy to let you have all the Jews you want in your area of the country after breakup, as long as you’re willing to allow me to isolate them in my area or have them move to your area.
I’m actually quite fond of Jews. For some reason I relate very well with them on a personal level, and include many in my list of best friends. But I can tell you this: Non-differentiation between what is culturally white and what is culturally Jewish has not been any better for whites this time around than it has been in the last 2000 years. And whites are the people whose well being those of here ultimately care about.
“Theft is wrong, then slavery is wrong”
So if the average black net worth is $5 we can equate slavery to penny candy theft.
And let’s not build a government system or ethos around avoiding penny candy theft.
@Fr. John+
“Come the restoration, the first thing I would do is make abortion a capital offense, by public hanging, stoning, or whatever else seems appropriate.”
– Of course you would, because, like all pro-lifer’s, your a hypocrite. In one breath you talk about how precious the “human life of the unborn” is, and in the next, you call for the sadistic execution of a human life in the form of public spectacle. And say, when is this “restoration” supposed to go down? Next time you talk to the Almighty, ask him to set up a Facebook page for it.
“The murder of the unborn..”
– Removing a wad of undeveoped stem-cells, is not “murder”. Is removing a cancerous tumor murder? Cancer cells could be considered “human life” as well. What does your fundamentalist dogma say about that?
“.. is the most satanic, heinous, race-genociding tool..”
– You don’t have a problem when niggers do it, and they do it far more often than whites do.
“..that Satan and his minions ever developed.”
– Incorrect. Human beings have been terminating pregnancies long before we believed in silly myths about men with horns and cloven hoofs. Abortion is as old as human reproduction itself. Hell some mammal species, such as dolphins for example, have been observed to terminate pregnancies when they instinctively sence that the offspring is genetically compromised.
“It’s no surprise that Jews were in the forefront of both practicing it, and arguing for it’s legalization.”
– Incorrect again. The Eugenics movement in America pre-dates both the mass-immigration of Jews from Eastern Europe, and the point in time when they had any influence in mainstream social issues in America.
“ANYONE who believes that a womans right to choose is ‘valid law’, should be shot, drawn and quartered.”
– If you believe that, then you’d be better off moving to a tiny ilsand in the South Pacific with population: 1 — Crazy John+. Because the majority of white people the world over, believe that a womans right to choose, IS VALID LAW.
“A woman is to serve her lord and master- whether husband or father, and womens rights stop at the boundries of her patriarchal step.”
– You sound more like a Muslim than a Christian. Tell you what Imam John(*, when the cops pick you up for killing your wife after she “disobeys” you, just expalin that a woman exists to serve a man, and has no rights but what a man gives her.
The eugenics movement didn’t involve the same kind of cultural corrosion Constitutional abortion does. Constitutional abortion is completely Jewish.
The majority of white people in the world may think that legal abortion is valid law, but the majority of white people in the world are also having their shores infested with third world populations and seem to have no control over their geographical destiny.
Coincidence? Not really.
The mistake being made here is presumption of universal morality. There is no such thing and despite the desire of some, the laws of Christianity are not those of the universe or if they are of all men. They will follow their own customs and assuming they will follow yours is both presumptuous and foolish.
That being said, if a hypothetical state were to follow Christian teachings, slavery is probably moral save that whole injunction by Christ
Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Someone following that command would not keep his brother as a slave as far as I can see.
There are a thousand reasons why loving thy neighbor as thyself would entail enslaving him.
If he were philandering.
If he couldn’t support his family.
If he were getting a divorce.
If he were suffering from addiction.
Etc., etc.
Of course you couldn’t be a BAD slave owner then. You must be a just slave owner, as you would have them do to you, were you veering off the correct path.
This is what serious people owe each other and their posterity. Otherwise there is no redemption. Just slavery to all our faults.
@Landshark
Legalized abortion and mass third-world immigration are completely unrelated. Unless of course, you consider that it is, in fact, anti-abortion Christian churches and their members who are heavily instrumental in bringing masses of third-world populations into white countries.
May be that’s the Church twisted strategy: Okay, if you’re going to do abortion so that there are fewer white babies to adopt, then we’ll bring in 3rd world babies and see how much you like it.
You have a point there with regard to the churches.
However, to summarize E. Michael Jones thinking:
Legalized abortion and the “liberated” society that evolves from the release of restrictions on libido (or the mating function, which is the purpose of laws against abortion — to channel the mating instinct into something resembles a society that we can enjoy and take pride in), basically cuts the balls off men. So we spend more time chasing tail than building society and standing up for what is right, like defending homogeneity and borders. At that point we get taken over by Jews who flog us mercilessly until we purge them.
This is why the Israelis pump porn over the airwaves into the occupied territories.
I don’t think you can equate cancer cells to the cells of an embryo, zygote, etc.
Cancer cells are of the hosts complete genetic complement with only a slight variation in the codons, usually something that allows them to appear as normal so the body will not kill the cells. This gives them the advantage of unrestrained growth.
Embryos and the like are a unique genetic complement unlike the mother or the father. Their genetics are of course a mixture of the two parents, but never-the-less genetically unique. Additionally, they are formed and housed within specific organs that are made for the purpose of nurturing a genetically unique new life.
I’m intrigued by the theft argument.
What is stolen? The full value of the labor of the slave? If that is the case, then capitalism is immoral because profit extracts the difference between the market value of goods and services and the wages paid to free labor employees.
These religious prohibitions like adultery, theft, murder, honor thy father, “love thy neighbor” and so forth are practical rules that encourage good behavior and a more cohesive and flourishing society within the in-group. Do they apply to outgroups?
Capitalism involves the voluntary trade between two individuals with the transaction only being valid upon the mutual concept of the trading individuals. Unless one of the individuals is defrauding the other then there is no theft. Of course one of the individuals could not be knowledgeable about the item in question and pay more than it is worth.
The labor of free labor employees is nothing more than a trade between two consenting individuals, or in the case of companies, an entity and an individual. The value added to the product is dependent only upon what an individual will pay for the product. Generally, an individual will pay an additionally value for something as they do not know how to make that product and are trading opportunity cost for a real product. I do not think free labor is being taken advantage when it is a consensual arrangement.
Slavery is an involuntary system where you are compelling a person to produce by force and not allowing them to have the products of their labor. There is no mutual consent and the slave’s every move is dictated, one way or the other, by the owner. The only value the slave receives is whatever the owner deems is necessary to keep the slave in good working order. If anything slave labor is inefficient when compared to wage labor.
I do believe slavery is immoral because I do not like to compel others by force, even if I believe them grossly inferior to me. That’s my two cents.
“But that is something we can agree to disagree on. I’m happy to let you have all the Jews you want in your area of the country after breakup, as long as you’re willing to allow me to isolate them in my area or have them move to your area.
I’m actually quite fond of Jews. For some reason I relate very well with them on a personal level, and include many in my list of best friends. ”
Some friend you are.
I’ve lost a lot of friends in my life because I’m a white supremacist. I disowned a coalburner cousin too, so did my uncle. The friends I’ve made from the “movement” I can count on one hand. My Jewish friends know I’m a white supremacist and most of them are too. At the very least they respect my views. Maybe try being honest with your friends about your political and racial beliefs? Honesty is the best policy especially among friends. The only real world groups I keep my beliefs from are:
*new women
*new business contacts
*people at work that might try to get me in trouble
*Negroes
Anti-Semitism once held appeal for me. I grewup around twofaced antisemites in my family, they were like Landshark. My cousins and I used to say “that’s heeb” for “that sucks” and “this is a hebrew nation!” when really frustrated, usually while playing Nintendo64. We were young, white and soft antisemitic. Our parents were no great admirers of Jews and were amused by our incendiary phrases. My Aunt and Mom lamented that Bloomingdales was “crawling with Jews”. A college student cousin was mistress to a Jew who bought her a Mercedes and took her around the world, that fanned antisemitism and jealousy among the other women of my family.. This was Long Island in the late 90’s. I guess antisemitism holds lasting apppeal for people that “wokeup” and allmof a sudden realized there exist different ethnic groups and that Whites are the best. I never really had to ‘wakeup’ i’m just a racist asshole. Even in school when I was a commie I was still racist.
There are so few Jews in West Texas that I have no idea what they are like personally. A pastor friend and mentor of my father was half-Jewish, and was saying things I learned later through the AltRight nearly 20 years ago. All I can really remember is that he was no fan of John Hagee and his blasphemous Israel worship. He was a Pat Buchanan fan, as I recall, and hated NAFTA. He also did missionary work in South America as well, and was fully racially-awake. He said Brazil was the most sin-drenched,vile, disgusting place on planet earth.
Tamer,
If anti-semitism is the primary cause of Western decline, wouldn’t Western culture have soared since the end of WW2? Or are Jews still being held back by anti-semites everywhere?
By the way, I hold to the traditional position that Judaism is a religion. A Jew is someone who practices the religion of Judaism, semite or not.
Negroes can’t respond to market incentives.
Negroes in Haiti had a higher standard of living as slaves. They received food, shelter andd clothing. Now they make $1 a day under “uhuru” and there are 300,000 child slaves in country.
Slaves don’t hurt freemen, they allow freemen to exist. The non-slaveholder white took great solace in the fact no matter what his economic condition he would always be above Negroes.
If everyone is free, no one is free.
I’m not going to dispute your point Tamer. One could definitely make an objective argument in favor of slavery using statistics and what not. I’d rather just not live around inferior people and trade equally with those I’m in league with. I have no use for slaves, especially in an era of accessible technology. Give me automation, without a sophisticated a.i. of course lol.
You can either put aggressive retards to work or idle them in jail.
Which is more moral, ethical?
Should they be gelded or executed instead of prison?
Slavery must be better than the above options.
I prefer Social Darwinism, personally, but I see your point. And technically slavery is not fully outlawed in America. Penal systems are allowed to use inmates for labor. Not a bad idea at all.
Slavery was a more intensive form of capitalism:
– Slaves were the private property of their masters.
– Slaves were investments and capital goods.
– Slaves could be bought and sold and their value fluctuated on the market.
– Slavery was an extractive system based on profit.
– Slaves produced agricultural commodities that were sold on the world market like any other private for profit enterprise.
The free labor system is based on the myth that it is purely voluntary. It is not voluntary though. No one works their 9-to-5 job at some huge corporation or to enrich some asshole boss for any reason other than the fact that working there is involuntary and necessary due to their lack of wealth and property.
The free labor system is fundamentally extractive like slave labor because both are driven by profit and accumulation. Employees are the servants of their employers. Slaves were the servants of their masters.
Slavery was a more honest system because it acknowledged the power relationship and imposed duties and reciprocal obligations on masters that are not imposed on private employers under the free labor system.
The free labor system falsely describes employers and employees as equals when that is not the case in reality.
All human work is profit-motivated unless truly altruistic. I figured I’d encounter the argument that the current free-labor system isn’t truly free, and I do not dispute that. What we have is all kinds of a mess, but fundamentally you are still free to choose your master or become one yourself (disregarding macroeconomic policies that limit such movement, of course).
The argument that slavery was a form of capitalism is not incorrect, it just acknowledges that humans were property. That is the whole basis of the argument for/against is whether one wants to treat a human as property and one which I’ll refrain from debating though I’ll make it known that I do not want to treat a person as property, regardless of their inferiority to me.
Personally, I’m rather glad that I wasn’t born a slave even though our social position made my parents wage slaves of sorts. At the end of the day there was the ability to accumulate wealth and improve one’s position. That is exactly what I have done and I’m thankful that I’m a freeman. I’ve come from a dirt poor position and have enriched myself beyond what my parents have realized for themselves based upon my personal decisions about who I choose to have as a master and how I choose to invest the products of my labor. A capitalist system with slaves is for the owner only.
“Slavery is immoral because it is theft: theft of another man’s labor, theft of his dignity, and theft of his personal autonomy.”
So now we are ceding personhood to negroes, who are no better than farm animals.
Ridiculous…
Slavery of an inferior is not theft, as it more positively redirects his energies and thereby produces something of worth both for master and slave. It is a win-win proposition. The savage gains far more from it than the master when this issue is examined objectively and correctly.
Contrast the so-called African American with his “brothers” in the Congo. He is and remains the chief beneficiary of the now defunct slave system of the South. His superiority before his African counterpart is quite marked. All due to contact with and influence from the white man. Now he is freed from his chains and he reverts to the condition of his African counterpart. Predictable.
Enslavement by a superior race is among the greatest goods imaginable for the savage.
“I do believe slavery is immoral because I do not like to compel others by force, even if I believe them grossly inferior to me. That’s my two cents.”
All government rests on compelling others by force. Government is the power to coerce others. Complete with the veiled application of force as an omnipresent potential threat/bad consequence for those who find themselves at odds with said government.
By your definition, government itself is as bad as slavery…
I still don’t understand why the superior should not enjoy some liberty in how he deals with and treats the inferior. Would you treat a dog or cat as equal to a human? If you own a dog, is the dog your slave? What about a cow, a pig, or a mule?
The biggest mistake whites ever made (and continue to make) was in treating negro savages as humans. You don’t apply human standards to animals. If you do, you should be prepared for frequent and constant disappointment.
Witness the past 50 years of education spending on improving negro test scores in BRA, all to no effect. Witness the past 50 years of continual, growing urban blight. Have we learned nothing?
Deo Vindice
“Tamer,
If anti-semitism is the primary cause of Western decline, wouldn’t Western culture have soared since the end of WW2? Or are Jews still being held back by anti-semites everywhere?”
Western culture did soar in many ways since the end of WWII. We reached the moon, repaired population gaps wrought by war, established a beachhead in the Holy Land with Jewish proxy army, a young slavic genius embraced America and gave us pop art. The Beatles. Much more cool stuff!
Three wars were debacles for Whites. The Russo-Japanese war, WwI and WwII. The first emboldened Japan and other coloreds to challenge 400 year global dominance by Whites. The second led to the great loss of fear and respect for fractured white power around the world. The second shattered the West and brought hatred and scorn and revolution from every miserable corner of the colored world against weak White countries.
“We used to have an Empire, now we got a slum!” -Skrewdriver
I say anti-Semitism is such a problem because it prevents us from solving our problems. It forces many demonstrably good white Jews to fear white racial awareness. That jerk Yggdrasil that censors comments at OQ claims that Jews have to become pro-white and then he’ll stop being antisemitic. His gauge for “pro-white” is broken, he wants Jews to start voting like hyphenated white nationalist tumbleweeds. He doesn’t understand the New World is a place for white supremacy over non-Whites, not some pie-in-sky ‘ethnostate’. Always has been, always will. Whether as chattel or as wage-slaves the non-whites exist to serve us. Jews understand. Wasps understand. Southron cavaliers understand.
*the third
My primary integration is spiritual, so the Beatles and the Moon aren’t reasonable replacements for the nuclear family, cultural decency, homogeneity and sound money.
But I see your point.
If I’m not governed by my consent, then it is as bad as slavery. A government has no more right to my person and my labor than any other as long as I stay within natural law.
“So now we are ceding personhood to negroes, who are no better than farm animals.
Ridiculous…”
I’ve never seen a farm animal make a spear or plant crops by their own volition. While Africans are inferior to whites, you aren’t going to get by with bad assertions that are objectively not true.
“Enslavement by a superior race is among the greatest goods imaginable for the savage.”
Or perhaps let them be in their own lands and die off like virtually all other species on Earth.
“I still don’t understand why the superior should not enjoy some liberty in how he deals with and treats the inferior.” Would you treat a dog or cat as equal to a human? If you own a dog, is the dog your slave? What about a cow, a pig, or a mule?”
Superiority in and of itself is a tool that gives you an upper hand while dealing with inferiors. What more liberty do you need? Who do you need to sanction your ability to outwit others? What do you want to be, some sort of puppet master, backed up by a gangs incase you need the brute force? By what measure do you assert authority? What grand system have you created that others could not live without?
“Would you treat a dog or cat as equal to a human? If you own a dog, is the dog your slave? What about a cow, a pig, or a mule?”
How could I treat a dog or cat as equal to a human, they are clearly not human? Nor are the other animals you mentioned. Do I treat my cat as a superior? Yes, I do. I do not keep it around to be a puppet, just a companion. I don’t see the need to explain how animals that are obviously different from humans should be treated as animals. I reject the comparison you have made.
“The biggest mistake whites ever made (and continue to make) was in treating negro savages as humans. You don’t apply human standards to animals. If you do, you should be prepared for frequent and constant disappointment.”
Not disagreeing with the concept though I’d probably phrase it differently. I do not advocate treating them the same, I advocate a complete separation of blacks and whites. Permanently.
Given the random action of genetic recombination, how ever unlikely the odds may be one of the progeny of any slave may have a superior genetic complement to the owner. To me, sitting here claiming superiority is a never-ending slippery slope of what-ifs and truly unprovable positions. I’m just going to leave it at separation of the races and not step further into the argument of morality in regards to slavery.
http://www.finalcall.com/perspectives/blacks_jews09-24-2002.htm
“History teaches us that Jews are not the allies that so many Blacks think they have been. It is now widely known that Jews were as much involved in the African slave trade as Arabs and Christians. Prior to the Civil Rights Movement, Jews as a whole in the North and South were no more outspoken against racism, segregation and discrimination than White Christians. Even during the Civil Rights Movement (which benefited Jews far more than Black Americans), Dr. King’s “Letter From A Birmingham Jail” was directed as much toward Jewish rabbis as toward White ministers, because Jews were generally no more sympathetic to the Black cause than were White Christians in Alabama.
Over the past 30 years, Jewish racism against Black people has grown exponentially. Whenever a Black leader has spoken out against Israel, criticized Jews or otherwise failed to comply with certain Jewish demands or opinions, organized Jewry has mounted a relentless campaign to destroy him.
For decades, Israel was South Africa’s staunchest ally, while American Jews tacitly endorsed this alliance. Furthermore, in spite of the fact that Black people everywhere have consistently sympathized with Jewish calls for recompense for their suffering during the Holocaust, many Jewish leaders and organizations have fervently opposed affirmative action for Blacks and, incredibly, now prominent Jews, like David Horowitz, of the Center For The Study of Popular Culture, and journalist Richard Poe, are at the forefront of the attack against the Black American Movement in support of reparations.”
One way or another, the population of Agrica is exploding. Antebellum slavery probably is a molehill in comparison to the demographic timebomb originating from Africa. A half Kenyan president! Jeesus. What have you done America?
@John,
I see this as a huge and very unnatural problem. The African population had no business growing in numbers as it has. One way or the other it will plateau, whether by choice or the limits of monetary and technological input. My personal view is that once the worldwide economic systems melts down that the African population will rapidly dwindle, probably by the largest percentage of all the populations on earth.
Jews are consumed with hatred for White folks and the West. Only morons think otherwise.
Whites who believe in “human rights” and “liberty and equality” and “democracy” are also consumed by guilt and hatred of Whites and the West because of the historical failure of reality to conform to their abstract liberal ideology.
The Jew recognizes the weakness and the opening provided by secular ideologues and capitalizes on it for his own advantage.
Lew,
You’re voting for a Nigger president.
None of my Jew friends are.
Jews tend to desire the people at the same time as desiring the destruction of the people. It’s extremely conflicting for them.
They tend to get more chauvenistic as they get older too. As the women age they become astonishingly bigoted. It’s fun to tease them.
The Jew recognizes the weakness and the opening provided by secular ideologues and capitalizes on it for his own advantage.
True enough. But, I think it’s worth noting that not all Whites wanted to go along for this ride. The South tried to resist. Germany tried to resist. The South tried to resist again up until the “civil rights” era. As recently as 1857, the US Supreme Court ruled that Blacks had no rights White men were bound to respect. Unlike Jews who are almost monolithic in their animus toward Western civ, a fairly substantial subset of Whites has always opposed the most egregious extensions and abuses of these secular ideologies, but they were either defeated on the battlefield or at the ballot box.
If the South had won TWBTS, do you think Southern elites would be have been able to resist Jewish subversion?
Can you hyphens stop bringing up world war II please?
We were the good guys, get over it.