The Cost of the Union: New PPRI Study on White Working Class

50 Comments

1. Africanus Rex. He is the end logic of Lincoln and John Brown’s vision.

2. It is true. The South really is a different people. We do not need to “take America back” we need to get away from America. Our ancestors knew it and they fought and died for it. It is so obvious to me now and a lot of that is thanks to OD.

   I no longer wish to change these Yankee-Judean minds or appeal to them in any way. Secession is the answer to every problem we face in the South.

3. I always believed the great majority of Americans were Conservative and a minority in key positions pushed Marxism on us. I’m not sure that’s true, though. I have Christian friends voting for Obama and others standing with Israel. I think our civilization has become lazy and weak.

4. Last night on Fox they were bleeting about Israel, an unending stream of it.

   Like that would convince the 50% of people who don’t vote at all. This Israeli love in is alienating working class whites.

5. MSNBC has gone to the trouble to put on about 3-4 hours of live, young and coming farm team leftist on both Saturday and Sunday morning. They come from all sorts of woodwork and have the attitude of the winning team; they are open about where we are going and how we will get there. It’s the new faces that interest me the most. Ah, the smell of blood.

6. That Amurrica will eventually break up into several different ethnostates is not a far fetched scenario. But in the meantime it’s business as usual.

   IMO the reelection of Obama along with a Republican controlled House, hopefully Senate too, will be the least bad result: some gridlock.

7. The country is split into a variety of white, brown and black nations already.

8. “In mid-August, Romney held a commanding 40-point lead over Obama among white working-class voters in the South (62% vs. 22%). However, neither candidate held a statistically significant lead among white working-class voters in the West (46% Romney vs. 41% Obama), Northeast (42% Romney vs. 38% Obama), or the Midwest (36% Romney vs. 44% Obama).”

   So breaking this down, working class whites (WCWs) in the South score a +40 on the Racial Righteousness Index ™, compared to a +5 for those in the West, +4 for the Northeast and -8 for the Midwest. That’s a huge difference in political attitudes, proving that at least among WCWs the South truly is a distinct society within the country as a whole.

   Also surprising is the negative score of WCWs in the Midwest, 12 points lower than the liberal Northeast, and 13 points lower than the West, where liberal California makes up more than 50% of the population. Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout must be the key factor here, as the attitude of Midwestern WCWs towards guns, gay marriage and government favouritism toward minorities is somewhat more conservative than those of WCWs in the Northeast and West.

   In fact, as a corollary to the Racial Righteousness Index, we can calculate and compare the opinions of WCWs in each region in regards to these three issues by adding the percentage of gun-owning households to the percentage of those who believe that the government unfairly favours blacks and other minorities, and subtract from this number the percentage of those who support same-sex marriage.
   Using this formula, the South scores a solid 88, compared to 52 for the Midwest, 43 for the West, and 29 for the Northeast.

   It seems that Obama and other leftist politicians of his ilk have successfully bought off large numbers of WCWs with 99 weeks of unemployment benefits, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, corporate bailouts and a whole panoply of other guvmint freebies. This technique was probably pioneered by the Social Democrats in Sweden and has since spread to the rest of the West: make the bulk of the population dependent on government largesse and they will vote for you forever. Fortunately, WCWs in the South have remained largely immune to this kind of bribery…..for now.

   If it were not for the Union, Dixie would quickly move toward a more conservative equilibrium as am independent nation-state.

   Maybe, but how exactly do you intend to move Dixie from the cold, dark rule of Washington DC to the sunny uplands of freedom and independence? I’m sure that you’re aware that there has been no successful secession from any Western country since Iceland severed its last ties with the Danish crown in 1941. Popular and mature separatist movements in Scotland, Wales, Flanders, Catalonia, the Basque country, Corsica, Padania (Northern Italy), Quebec and Puerto Rico all have at least one thing in common: a complete and total failure to achieve independence.

   Even with the recent election of a PQ government, Quebec is no closer to sovereignty than it was 50 years ago. Scotland will hold a referendum on independence in 2014. I will bet dollars to donuts that not only will the Scottish independentistas lose that vote, but that they will lose in a humiliating fashion. Puerto Rico will hold a similar referendum on November 6 of this year. The independence option will get less than 10% of the vote–maybe less than 5%–as the real fight is between supporters of statehood and those of continuing Commonwealth status.

   If the Puerto Rican independence movement is moribund, then the Southern independence movement is, to all extents and purposes, non-existent. Whether or not the cause is just, there is simply no market for what you’re trying to sell: a neo-Confederacy based on white supremacy. The old Confederacy ‘enjoyed’ four whole years of contested sovereignty, unrecognized by any other nation on Earth, and ended with hundreds of thousands dead, economic ruin, military occupation and a further century of grinding poverty and backwardness. It was an abject failure in every sense of the word, and as a model for a modern-day federation has little to no support even among white conservatives in the South.

   And time is running out for the South. Whites are already a minority in Texas and are quickly on their way to minority status in Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi and Louisiana. Even if you could build majority support for a neo-Confederacy among Southern whites–which you can’t–by then it will be too late. You will be outnumbered by non-whites whose support for a neo-Confederacy will be at the same level as black support for Mitt Romney: 0%.

   Please don’t take this critique as anti-Southern or even anti-sovereigntist, It’s just that realism trumps idealism every time, and it’s time for y’all to get realistic. Later, I will propose a better, more realistic alternative to Hunter’s neo-Confederacy, something for all Americans, not just Southerners. Something actually do-able.

9. White Californians are quite racially aware.

10. I can’t argue. Guys, after you break away, will you let the old OD commenters go on holiday down South?

11. Fascinating column, HW. Especially this gem:

    “Less than one-third (32%)of white working class Americans in the South favor allowing gay and lesbian people to marry, compared to 44% in the Midwest, 47% in the West, and 57% in Northeast.”

    On the heels of this, my recent comments about Catholics having the guts (but not the intelligence) to have signs in their yards in South Mpls, saying ‘Another Catholic’ voting NO’ (for a law that would make heterosexual marriage part of the MN. State constitution, and another law, that merely requires ID to vote- gee, think of that novelty…… both of which, you’d think ‘traditional RC’s would like!) the following ‘honesty survey’ of Noo Joisey (Diocese of Trenton) ‘Catholics,’ clearly shows that, these ‘faitful’ are NOT in a/the Church, nor are these the ‘faithful’ of even MY generation, what White Catholics would have called, ‘Catholics,’ fifty years ago.

    http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=13347

    These Northeast ‘Catholics’ (like that column I included on the actions of the new head of the SBC, the actions of American Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, et al.- all filioquists, too- gee, is there a connection? Hmmmm…..) are exactly the same group of Yankee Supremacists HW has been writing about for the last three years- we should see a pattern evolving here. These self-haters are deluded zombies, who merely want the veneer of religion and not the onus/responsibility of it; who confuse moralism with morality, who have confused altruism with absolution, and specifically these RC’s (as ‘the survey says!) presumptuously think they can be real RC’s, and yet hold to ‘tolerance and diversity’ mantras, at the same time denounce the pope, and pretend they can be RC’s all rolled into one, with Obama the chocolate frosting on their poison cake!

    (At least when I realized that the pope had overreached his episcopal authority somewhere in the 1200’s, and that the Reformers were substantively correct, I didn’t stay in the ‘bare, ruined choirs’ of the edifice of my childhood faith- nor did I presume to think to ‘change’ Rome from within- I just realized Vatican II had already done that; the papacy was vacant; and the pnevma had ‘left the building’- like Elvis- and turned, shook off the dust from my feet, and did what any real man would do- Realize that you had to have BALLS to leave a false cult, but also had the RESPONSIBILITY to ‘come out from among her’… (clearly) unlike the feminazi nuns, who are still vacillating women after all- and the effeminized faggots- who merely want to BE women – who NEED the ‘institution’ as a sort of theological baby blanket, while they die in their sins, like cowards…)

    Reading this column, it struck me that so many of these ‘catholics’ don’t grasp- or won’t grasp- after forty years of lesbian nuns and fag priests, that there is a dichotomy 500 miles wide and 50,000 feet deep, between them and the Apostolic faith.

    So, I guess it comes as no surprise that the folks of the ilk of Joew and Wop666, all are part of this ‘Northeast’ US/Liberal RC’ism, that masquerades as a faith, and a culture for white Men. For it/they, are neither.

12. 24 working class Marines could have held out in that Bengazi consulate death trap for at least 48 hours if not longer. Even if 500 Libyans were attacking them. There’s your working class. Count on them or discount them at your peril, that goes for all the Republicans.

13. Re: jeppo

    (1) Knowing Southerners, I am confident they will keep supporting the Republicans until the demographics in the Western states shift to the point where the GOP ceases to be competitive at the national level in contesting the White House and Supreme Court, at which point the reality of our situation will finally begin to sink in and the mindset of Southerners will begin to change.

    (2) From 1790 until 1860, the South dominated the U.S. federal government. There was no need for a secessionist movement because Southerners usually got their way and were completely satisfied with the government which enjoyed nearly unquestioned legitimacy in the South.

    (3) It wasn’t until the first secession crisis of 1848 to 1851 in which the Union was saved by the Compromise of 1850 which admitted California as a free state that the reality of the situation – the siege mentality, the threat to slavery, the fear of sectional inequality, the sense of being stigmatized and quarantined behind a wall of free states – finally began to set in and undermine the Union.

    (4) Even then, the South remained dominant at the national level, and through the 1850s through the Taylor, Fillmore, Pierce, and Buchanan administrations, there were long periods of sectional calm in which secession seemed to be an extremely remote possibility, even fire eaters like Rhett retired from active politics after thirty years of secessionist agitation, and there was nothing like a mass movement for secession through most of those years, even in South Carolina.

    (5) In less than a decade, as the balance of power within the Union shifted to the North through the 1850s, the South abandoned the Jacksonian super patriotism and spread eagle “Young America” super nationalism of the 1830s and 1840s in favor of the states’ rights ideology.

    (6) As for Western Europe, you’re not counting the secession of the British colonies, the French colonies, the Dutch colonies, or the Portuguese colonies. You’re not counting the disintegration of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, or the USSR, or German reunification, which was stalled for decades by the Cold War dynamic.

    Britain and Canada were willing to tolerate secession – it didn’t happen in Quebec in the 1990s or Scotland in the 2000s, but the economy wasn’t in the shape then that it is today, nor was the legitimacy of the government or faith in the liberal democratic capitalism model, which was riding its high horse in those decades after winning the Cold War.

    Communism didn’t look like it was about to collapse either in the 1970s and 1980s.

    (7) I’m not sure why you are comparing Puerto Rico to Dixie when over half of Puerto Ricans live in the mainland United States and given their lack of incentive to secede in light of how disproportionately they benefit from the American welfare state.

    (8) Let’s see how long White conservatives in the South remain attached to the Union when the national GOP becomes as competitive as the California GOP – in just the last four years, there has been a remarkable change, as the flag waving patriotards of the Bush era yielded overnight to Tea Party nullifiers.

    (8) As for the Confederacy not being a model, nullification has already returned. The states have taken a number of actions in recent years to nullify actions of the federal government.

    (9) That’s true.

    The North would never invade the South in the 21st century. There are thousands of nuclear weapons in the South.

    (10) When the Confederacy was formed in 1861, Whites were a smaller share of the population than they are today. What’s more, as we have already seen, 54 percent of blacks live in the South today, as opposed to the 95 percent that used to live here a century ago.

    (11) Why would it be too late? Was it “too late” for South Carolina when the state government was overthrown in 1876?

    (12) Realistically, the Union is a loser for the South and the polling data above proves it. The only reason we have this awful government is because of the Union. As for Obama, it was the North that elected him president as a solid phalanx from Maine to Minnesota in 2008, and the North looks like it will reelect him again in November barring an October surprise on the level of the Iranian hostage crisis.

    (13) Realistically, if you check the VDARE front page, you will see that Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, two Yankees from Massachusetts and Wisconsin, are getting anywhere from 51 to 54 percent of the national White vote and are underperforming John McCain in 2008, even though they have a 40 point advantage with Southern White working class voters!

    Please note that Yankees are going to reelect Obama over two of their own guys – after all the shit Obama has done over the last four years, including his total failure on the economy – who are running on a “fiscal conservatism” platform to appeal to swing voters in the Northern suburbs.

    How can Southerners have any confidence in the Union after November? Yankees will demonstrate once again that they are allied with Jews, Hispanics, and the Black Undertow and will always take their side over us.

    (14) Realistically, it was the Union which destroyed Jim Crow and banished explicit racial consciousness from the political mainstream by passing the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which created the black voter and destroyed all the old segregationist strongholds in the South.

    (15) Realistically, the alienation of the South from the Union will increase tremendously from Obama’s reelection forward, as the South will be shut out of power in the national government, while the costs of the Union explode, financially and socially, and the national GOP loses its access to power, which is the only force that attracted the South to the GOP over the past five decades.

14. Golden Dawn has gone from like 1 percent to 22 percent in a year.

15. Brutus is right.

    White Northerners are going to vote for Obama because they think “he is for the working man.”

16. Quebec just elected a separatist government and has a minister to promote separatism. When will the South grow balls? In the current climate, Yankees wouldn’t go to war to keep the South in bondage.

17. The right is primed for a full populist uprising. The Greeks in their own way are showing everyone else how quickly it can be done.

18. Joan Walsh redux. The Southern White workingclass is a problem for the President. Same thing Lincoln thought. Elimination to follow shortly.

19. Once Romney loses, whites can begin blithely and quite cheerfully discussing out loud amongst themselves, which option(s) of secession or partition will be to their best advantage as whites. A separate Dixie republic is one option, of course; personally I can envision three or four different models that I think are more workable and would better serve whites, Southerners included.

    The point is that the conversation should begin, out loud, in public, and who cares who overhears it. When the saintly People of Color begin to object, as object they will, whites can cheerfully smile and say “But we’re such evil racists! You’ve always said so! Why on earth would you ever want to live near us, when we’re finally giving you the chance to be free for all time from our evil structural institutional racism?”

20. I take back everything I said about Golden Dawn. They just called the anti-whites, genocidal! I couldn’t be happier with them. Go Golden Dawn!

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/333341#ixzz27DXTCAMB

    “We stand with the Greek people who have been driven to poverty and despair by the imposition of the genocidal IMF and European Union austerity policies that are decimating the population and turning Greece into a slave state.

    Our goals are to promote and support the Golden Dawn’s nationalist ideals and vision for Greece among the Greek diaspora. We must resist and overcome the genocidal multi- culturalist, and anti-Hellenic agenda of the New World Order.”

21. I was originally going to call this proposal the Actual State Sovereignty movement, but the acronym stinks (pun intended). Instead, let’s call it the 50 Nations concept. What I’m proposing is independence for all 50 states within a supranational United States of America. The US would no longer be a sovereign nation, but would continue to exist as a supranational entity much like the European Union. In fact, the EU is more or less the model for the future US that I envision.

    Let’s use Hunter’s home state as an example of how this proposal would play out. Alabama would become a fully sovereign nation with a seat at the UN (it would be first alphabetically). It would send and receive ambassadors to and from other nations. Montgomery would become a full-fledged national capital. The state flag would become the national flag. The state anthem (Sweet Home Alabama?) would become the national anthem. The state national guard would become the Alabama armed forces, and so on. In other words, Alabama and the other 49 states would become independent nations with the same powers and responsibilities as Germany, France, Italy or any other EU nation.

    The US would continue to exist as a supranational entity with a capital city, flag, anthem, presidency, congress, supreme court, etc., just like the EU. Some parts of the US government would continue to exist, like the CIA and FBI, while others would disappear with their powers devolved to the 50 nations, like the IRS and Department of Education. The precise division of powers between the US and the 50 nations would have to be negotiated, as would various opt-outs, just like in the EU. But the overall effect would be a hugely weakened Washington DC as the vast majority of governmental competencies would be handed over to the 50 nations.

    Of course some will ask why should we base a future US on a sinking EU, which might very well break up in the next few years? Bullshit. The EU is here to stay and will only grow stronger and more united over time. Why? Because the political will to keep it together is nearly absolute across the political spectrum. The EU will not be allowed to fail, and that goes for the euro as well. While some pundits are predicting the euro’s imminent demise, in truth the euro will probably displace the US dollar as the world’s primary reserve currency sooner rather than later. Using the EU as a model may inspire scoffs and guffaws today, but that will change as the US becomes increasingly less viable as a united nation-state.

    Now the true Southron fire-eaters will want to leave the United States altogether, even if it evolves into an EU-like weak, supranational umbrella entity. And this may happen one day, if, say, Alabama as a sovereign nation decides to sever all ties with the US, or if they decide to re-federate with other Southern nations into the neo-Confederacy of Hunter’s dreams. But that day is far, far off in the future, if it ever comes. Today, the vast majority of Americans, including conservative Southerners, are justifiably proud of their country’s history and accomplishments, and will not willingly separate themselves from it. However, I believe that actual state sovereignty could be achieved within the overarching rubric of an EU-like supranational US. It’s a compromise that might not satisfy the hardliners, but so what?

    Who does a neo-Confederacy based on white supremacy appeal to? A tiny fraction of extreme right-wing white Southerners, that’s it. And it’s highly unlikely to ever grow much beyond that puny demographic group. But the 50 nations concept has the ability to appeal to a broad cross-section of American society, North and South, liberal and conservative, white and non-white. Southern conservatives don’t like living under the liberal Obama regime any more than Northeastern liberals liked being ruled by the “conservative” George W Bush. The solution? Fifty independent nations within a weak, supranational United States.

    The supposed all-controlling Eurocrats of Brussels get a lot of bad press, most of it justified, but the EU bureaucracy is surprisingly small, and positively miniscule compared to the fedgov behemoth in DC. To put it in perspective, the DC bureaucracy would have to shrink by 80% or 90% to get to the size of its counterpart in Brussels. Wouldn’t that be grand? And yes, Alabamians would still be subject to the laws and dictates of the US executive, legislative and judicial branches, just like the Austrians are subject to the EU Commission, Parliament and Supreme Court. But those EU institutions are like the proverbial 98 pound weakling compared to the American federal 800 pound gorilla. What’s more is that the EU has very weak enforcement mechanisms at its disposal: when the EU decreed that no nation could run deficits of more than 3% of GDP, not only did all the Southern European nations ignore them, but so did core members like France and Germany. And Brussels couldn’t do a damn thing about it. THAT is my idealized vision of a future Washington DC: like a powerless eunuch, all talk and no action.

    Does the 50 Nation concept have a realistic chance of catching on with the general population? If Obama wins this November, I would say yes. It’s based on an actual, 21st century living entity, the EU, unlike a neo-Confederacy based on a 19th century corpse. It has the ability to appeal to a broad cross-section of Americans, unlike a neo-Confederacy which appeals only to an extremist fringe. It involves transforming the US from a national to a supranational entity and weakening its substantial powers, not separating from it or destroying it outright. And it involves transferring sovereignty to the states, not to some ill-defined, amorphous place known as Dixie.

22. “In fact, the EU is more or less the model for the future US that I envision.”

    The Articles of Confederation were far less oppressive.

    “The state anthem (Sweet Home Alabama?) “

    Hardly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn5zHyn3Ujs

    “Some parts of the US government would continue to exist, like the CIA and FBI”

    Surely you jest. The entire fascistic state security apparatus (including the BATF and Homeland Security) should be the first to go along with the IRS.

    “The EU is here to stay and will only grow stronger and more united over time. Why? Because the political will to keep it together is nearly absolute across the political spectrum. “

    No it is not. They dare not hold referendums any longer in any member state as they would be soundly rejected in any plebiscite just like has occurred with regularity over the last decade or so.

    “It involves transforming the US from a national to a supranational entity and weakening its substantial powers, not separating from it or destroying it outright”

    All that would be necessary for that to occur would be to abide by the 9th and 10th Amendments to the Bill of Rights or to the limitations on federal power implicit in the main body of the Constitution itself. Since this has not occurred neither will your scheme. It is federal default on its financial obligations and nothing less that will bring about devolution of the United States.

23. Ladies and Gentlemen please rise for the anthem…”Does you conscience bother you?”

24. They dare not hold referendums any longer in any member state as they would be soundly rejected in any plebiscite just like has occurred with regularity over the last decade or so.

    Not true. Irish voters approved the European Fiscal Compact by 60.3% to 39.7% in a referendum on May 31, 2012, less than 4 months ago.

25. “Irish voters approved the European Fiscal Compact”

    That’s because they had already been bailed out. Cameron just announced he would not hold a referendum in Britain.

    The Maastricht Treaty was rejected by:

    Denmark – 53.2% against, turnout 87.6% on 28 September 2000
    Sweden – 56.1% against, turnout 81.2% on 14 September 2003

    The Constitution was rejected by:

    France – 54.9% against (29 May 2005)
    Netherlands – 61.5% against (1 June 2005)

    As a result referendums on the Constitution were put on hold in the:

    Czech Republic
    Denmark
    Ireland
    Portugal
    and the United Kingdom

    as polls have shown they would surely fail by wide margins.

    The powers that be in Brussels continually try and push through measures by tyrannical and un-democratic diktats. They don’t dare hold a referendum in Germany on the Fiscal Compact. Merkel’s government is already on thin ice as it is.

26. “Ladies and Gentlemen please rise for the anthem…”

    This is my anthem:

27. Look at the results of the Dutch election only ten days ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_general_election,_2012

    Geert Wilders’ nationalist/libertarian PVV party ran on an explicitly anti-EU and anti-euro platform, in contrast to the 2010 election where they ran on an anti-immigration and anti-Islamization platform. The result? Their vote collapsed by 35%, an utter disaster. The only other party running against the EU, the Socialists, were down slightly as well.

    The most vehemently pro-EU parties, the Liberals and Labour, both saw substantial increases in their respective seat counts. The idea that the EU doesn’t have significant popular support is laughable, whether in the Netherlands or any other EU nation (with the possible exception of the UK).

28. That’s pretty weak tea. A party platform is usually only of secondary importance in voters choices at best. In fact individual politicians often run on slogans directly opposed to their party’s platform. In fact although the “winning” party (at only 20% of the vote) ran on a platform specifically supporting the current EU austerity measures (the Fiscal Compact) it can only put together a minority coalition of 75 seats; not nearly enough to form a government.

    The fact is that the Dutch overwhelmingly opposed the EU Constitution when it was put to a vote. It rocked Europe to its core when it occurred. Current party platforms don’t mean diddly-squat in comparison.

29. Return to the Articles of Confederation and true States rights would be enough.

30. Going back to the topic, the white working class in the south is the only viable solution.

31. We need this to happen sooner rather than later, and I’m now beginning to think another 4 years of Obama will do it. My city is being flooded with true third world trash (I saw a sign on a shop in f__king Burmese the other day, in addition to the Arabic and Kurdish and omnipresent Spanish) thanks to the genocidal “Refugee Resettlement” agencies and the traitorous whites who fawn over them in the local newspaper and in local do-gooder churches.

    A nigger chimpout with a Romney win will just cause a redux of the LA Watts riot with most whites just shrugging their shoulders and thinking “damn niggers” and going on with their lives being blissfully ruined by illegal amnesty and wage deflation and 1%er economic policies.

    Obama and the commie elites are prepping those with ears to hear to the fact that he will take the “white privilege” meme mainstream the next four years. Obama will probably sign an executive order to mandate that agencies specifically fight “white privilege” and “structural racism.” I expect he will ensure that all those laid off in the coming austerity and federal government cuts must be white males especially.

    Maybe then we will see angry white Southern men stand and fight for their land to be a free nation once again. If we don’t, maybe we as a race deserve what is happening to us.

32. Regardless, on Nov 6th I’m thinking of doing something drastic. Maybe torching an American flag outside my local polling place up the street while wearing a cardboard sandwich placard with a Stars and Bars on one side and “Free Tennessee” on the other. I’m coming to truly hate everything this nation now stands for: moral degeneracy and bs equality, illegal Aztec infiltrators being praised and pandered to, apologies to Mohammedan heathens, and black criminals openly waging a race war in all but name.

    All because Jefferson wrote that one silly phrase “that all men are created equal.” Really Mr. Jefferson you knew better.

33. Rudel says:
    September 22, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    “Ladies and Gentlemen please rise for the anthem…”

    This is my anthem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS7Y4XszJyg

    Very nice and I appreciate it, but I can’t shake ‘Dixie’ as the best anthem yet written. It shouldn’t be unnoticed that it’s one of the most reproduced songs. Can’t say that for the Orwellian BHOTR anyway.

34. Re: jeppo

    (1) We’ve already been down that road in the Articles of Confederation and 1789 Constitution. It got us the Lincoln system.

    (2) Realistically, the federal government will grow exponentially more centralized and oppressive after the demographics shift to the point where the Republicans cease to be competitive.

    (3) How content will the South be with that political arrangement? What will be the value of the national Republican Party when it ceases to be competitive at the national level?

    (4) Antebellum Southerners were far more attached to the Union. They were just three generations removed from the Founders.

    (5) The same argument that secessionists are a noisy fringe without a mass following was made right down to 1859/1860. As previously noted, Rhett was retired from national politics when secession finally came.

    (6) In 1860, secession wasn’t the result of a mass separatist movement. It was a result of a siege mentality in the South, a loss of faith in the national political system, and fear about the threat posed by the North under a dominant sectional party.

35. (1) We’ve already been down that road in the Articles of Confederation and 1789 Constitution. It got us the Lincoln system.

    Yes, but now the opportunity exists to reverse the Lincoln system by using a real-world model, the EU, to argue for the transformation of the US from a nation-state to a supranational entity while granting the states full independence.

    (2) Realistically, the federal government will grow exponentially more centralized and oppressive after the demographics shift to the point where the Republicans cease to be competitive.

    You’re assuming that the US is already a one-party Democratic state. In the meantime liberals chafing under Republican rule may be receptive to the 50 Nations concept, like that author who wrote a book advocating that the South be kicked out of the Union because he doesn’t like their conservatism. In that scenario, liberals may be just as eager–or more so–than conservatives to proposals for radical decentralization. Free Massachusetts!

    (3) How content will the South be with that political arrangement? What will be the value of the national Republican Party when it ceases to be competitive at the national level?

    What will the South be like if and when that happens? Texas might be only 35% white by then, and very unlikely to still be a Republican bastion, and whites may be minorities in half dozen other Southern states. The idea that the South will remain Republican while the rest of the country turns Democratic seems highly unlikely. Anyway, the 50 Nations concept is bipartisan: let the liberals of Vermont and the conservatives of Alabama each have their own sovereign nations.

    (4) Antebellum Southerners were far more attached to the Union. They were just three generations removed from the Founders.

    Maybe. But my impression is that conservative white Southerners are some of the most patriotic Americans today. That’s why I think these folks would only accept independence if it occured within the framework of an EU-like supranational United States. They will not countenance the destruction of, or the separation from, the good old US of A.

    (5) The same argument that secessionists are a noisy fringe without a mass following was made right down to 1859/1860. As previously noted, Rhett was retired from national politics when secession finally came.

    I think a more apropos comparison is what did Southerners do in 1959/1960, in the middle of the civil rights battles. And the answer is nothing at all, at least when it came to pushing for secession. Why? Because their loyalty and attachment to the US was far greater than their desire to preserve their traditional way of life, i.e. to maintain segregation.

    (6) In 1860, secession wasn’t the result of a mass separatist movement. It was a result of a siege mentality in the South, a loss of faith in the national political system, and fear about the threat posed by the North under a dominant sectional party.

    Secession was an elite project, the brainchild of the wealthy and powerful Plantocracy. The hoi polloi simply weren’t consulted, as they absolutely must be today in a mass democracy. So if we want to break, or severely diminish, the power of the federal government, we need a proposal that will win the support of a majority of voters. And a neo-Confederacy based on white supremacy ain’t it.

36. As a northeasterner (New York) and the son of the Catholic, ethnic white-working class, how the hell do I sign up for the Southern Independence Movement?

    Every white conservative has left the state and we are being ruled by liberals and Asians here!

    Help!

37. (1) There is nothing original about your idea of a federation of sovereign states. That was the original political arrangement in the United States. American citizenship was derived from state citizenship until the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment established national birthright citizenship.

    (2) We’ve already been down that road and know where it ends. The Northeast wasn’t satisfied with the Articles of Confederation. That gave us the more centralized government under the 1789 Constitution.

    From the Federalists to the Whigs to the Republicans, the Northeast relentlessly pushed to centralize and consolidate the federal government under their own control, and finally succeeded after the South seceded from the Union.

    (3) Any decentralized Union with the Northeast and the Yankee states would immediately turn out to be a gull trap for the South as the same centralizing process would unfold all over again.

    (4) It is not a one party Democratic state … not yet, but soon, maybe as soon as November, the national Republican Party will begin its long arc of descent like the California Republican Party.

    In California, Whites responded by moving to other states, but that won’t be an option for Southern Whites when the Union becomes another California.

    (5) The shift has already begun. The superpatriotism of the Bush years is long gone under Obama. States” rights and nullification are already back now.

    Right now Southern Whites are convinces that the national GOP is still competitive and that they can defeat Obama, but a few more election cycles will put an end to that illusion.

    (6) In the Jackson and Polk era, Southerners were also supernationalists. It only took twelve years for their patriotism to cool to the point where it evaporated.

    (7) In the 1960s, Southerners were convinced that we were on the verge of nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Many books have been written about how the Cold War made the success of the Civil Rights Movement possible.

    America was almost 90 percent White. The economy was in the midst of its long postwar boom. The U.S. was at its peak as a world power. There was a pervasive belief back then that America could do anything.

    As hard as it is to believe now, the government and the media had a lot more legitimacy back then. Most importantly, a secession movement never developed in the 1960s because Southerners were convinced they were politically viable and could fight back through mainstream politics.

    (8) That’s a myth.

    Planters were very divided on secession. John C. Calhoun never advocated disunion. Rhett had retired from politics in South Carolina out of frustration with his defeat. Secession had been defeated in 1850 by the cautious planters in South Carolina and all the other Southern states.

    John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry, the rejection of the Dred Scott decision in the North, and most importantly, the election of a “Black Republican” president from a sectional party based on hostility to the South ignited a wave of mass hysteria that destroyed tbe Union in the Lower South.

    It was a popular movement, a sudden fit of righteous indignation set off by the above, not an elite conspiracy. All the various resentments and bitterness and fears crystallized at that moment and precipitated secession.

38. No, it’s not an original idea. It’s merely applying the blueprint for the European Union to the United States, so the credit (or blame) should go to Jean Monnet and Robert Schuman, not me.

    Frankly, I hadn’t even considered the Articles of Confederation when thinking up this proposal. But if anything, I think the Articles, as a specifically American historical precedent, further bolster the case for actual state sovereignty within a supranational United States. It can be reasonably argued that 21st century America is just too big, too diverse and too unwieldly to continue to be governed as a single nation-state, and that the way forward can be mapped out by using the dual examples of the US from 1781-1789 and the EU from 1957 to present.

    The question is, can a majority of Americans be persuaded to support an EU-like United States containing 50 independent nations? Maybe, maybe not. But there is no chance–none at all–that majority support can ever be found for the re-establishment of a Confederacy based on white supremacy. So rather than waste any more time on this unachievable fantasy, I’m offering you the 50 Nations concept as a realistic Plan B 🙂

39. Drexler,

    you can’t sign up. You live in the capital of the multicult. Just take it like a man enjoy of it what you can.

40. Hunter,

    you should post about the wax and wane of Southern perceptions of it’s own nationhood.

41. Drexler, on the right side of Hunter’s blog:

    http://dixienet.org/rights/join.shtml

42. Those statewide statistics show northern states’ populations to be less red, but they are also less rural, more urban. If only truly RURAL voter statistics were compared, there might appear to be much less difference between northern and southern states’ rural voters, and if only URBAN voter statistics are compared, again there might appear to be much less difference between northern and southern states’ urban voters. Beware of statistical generalisations in support of regional chauvinism.

43. http://www.politicususa.com/wheels-fall-romney-obama-leads-nascar-fans-48-41.html

    NASCAR fans. 7% deficit for Romney.

44. Interesting, John, but we rural farm folk go to tractor pulls, farm auctions and fairs.

45. That wasn’t a follow on from your comment specifically. It’s just more evidence that the GOP is non viable.

46. No one in the South thinks the European Union is a great idea. The EU is associated with effeminate Eurocrats in Brussels, a stagnant economy, and most all with “socialism.”

    Obama is routinely attacked in the South for desiring to emulate the European Union. Even Britain has refused to go all in on the European Union. If there is any European state that we might want to emulate, it is Switzerland which wisely opted out of submerging itself in the EU.

47. @Mosin Nagant

    I’d hardly give that article any thought, especially considering that the website that he dug he it up from, has the slogan “Real Liberal Politics” right under it’s name. Strange that John talks about “partitioning” America on OD, but also evidently frequents hyper-liberal news sites who’s ridiculous “articles” would hardly be fit to cover the bottom of bird cage.

48. The forward in the South is secession from the United States: the Constitution does not restrain the federal government, the preservation of the Union will bankrupt us in the long run as America’s finances deteriorate, and changing racial demographics will remove all checks on the growth of the Northern-dominated central government and will leave us without any means to defend ourselves from a hostile non-White majority.

    MLK’s “Dream” of a colorblind society is also a failure. There has already been silently acknowledged in the South. Since the 1990s, it has become culturally unacceptable for Whites to vote for the Democratic Party. We are rapidly returning to Jim Crow-style racialized politics.

    As the political power of non-Whites increases, their enmity toward Southern Whites will increase as well, and Southern Whites will grow more disillusioned with the prevailing myth of a “colorblind society,” which is already held in contempt among many grassroots conservatives.

    Obama has already cooled Southern enthusiasm for the federal government. The supernationalism of the Bush years is long gone now. The states have been fighting with Obama ever since he became president.

    Right now, Southerners are still under the illusion that they are politically viable and can defeat Obama, but there is growing skepticism that Romney can defeat Obama in November. As I said above, the illusion will be gone in two or three more election cycles when the GOP ceases to be competitive at the national level.

    Predictibly, we will see a siege mentality develop in the South. Racial attitudes will harden. Southerners will become angry and alienated from the federal government. The legitimacy of the federal government will continue to decline.

    Once the GOP loses its ability to compete nationally, it will lose its major attraction to Southerners. This process is already well advanced and can be seen in the lack of enthusiasm with which the South embraced McCain and Romney.

    It is our role to articulate secession/revolution as the alternative to the mainstream politics – we can familiarize people with the idea and wait for the logic of the system to press their backs against the wall. Eventually, the crisis will come and we will go from being marginalized extremists to prescient sentinels of national decline.

49. No one in the South thinks the European Union is a great idea. The EU is associated with effeminate Eurocrats in Brussels, a stagnant economy, and most all with “socialism.”

    We’re talking about emulating the supranational architecture of the European Union in the US, not importing their social or economic systems. I think most Alabamians or South Carolinians would appreciate having the same powers as full-fledged nation-states like Germany or France. And I think that they’d really like to see a Washington DC as remote and inconsequential in their everyday lives as Brussels is in the lives of average Europeans.

    It is our role to articulate secession/revolution as the alternative to the mainstream politics – we can familiarize people with the idea and wait for the logic of the system to press their backs against the wall. Eventually, the crisis will come and we will go from being marginalized extremists to prescient sentinels of national decline.

    I agree 100%. But we need to have a plan ready that will appeal to a majority of voters, which a neo-Confederacy will never do. What exactly do Texas and Virginia have in common today? Or Florida and Arkansas? Slavery and segregation were the glue that held the South together during the 19th and 20th centuries, but both are now dead and buried and highly unlikely to ever return, so the answer is not much. Goegraphically, demographically, culturally and economically, Texas is closer to New Mexico and Virginia is closer to Maryland than they are to each other. So why would TX and VA bother leaving the Union only to re-federate with a bunch of other states with whom they no longer share the old similarities?

    Face it, the CSA is long gone and it’s never coming back. Southern patriots should concentrate on pushing for the independence of their own states within the overarching framework of a supranational US based on the EU. It’s radical enough to permanently destroy the federal government and replace it with a much smaller and much weaker transnational entity, but not too radical so as to scare away the ordinary folks that you’re going to need on your side to support state secession. Your nation isn’t Dixie, Hunter, it’s Alabama. And freedom for Alabama should be your cause.

50. I clearly stated that I was conventionally liberal with a latent awareness of my own racism, until I read Martin Bernal’s Black Athena. Emma West Video tipped me further toward awareness and the Pruitt Igoe housing project story made me reassess the purpose of segregation. Obviously segregation worked. Clearly West is being persecuted. Bernal is obviously trying to erase European history. I’ve never attempted to hide that.

    Lib sites are quite interesting. However, I like Vdare, OD and TOO.