Time
Time magazine has dedicated its latest issue to reassuring infertile White liberals that living “the childfree life” in a dense urban area is superior to raising children in the suburbs.
See “Childfree Adults Are Not Selfish” and “I Just Don’t Want To Have a Child” and “The Declining Birthrate Doesn’t Spell Disaster” and “Do Children Bring Happiness – or Misery?”
Southern Nationalists and White Nationalists spend a lot of time bickering in the OD comments about small points of disagreement, but this is one issue on which there should be a broad consensus.
A White Nationalist is someone who believes in the 14 Words: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children.” A Southern Nationalist is someone who believes in “the survival, well being, and independence of the Southern people.”
Therefore, the single most important thing that a White Nationalist or a Southern Nationalist can do to further the White race or the survival of the Southern people is to become the mothers and fathers of the next generation of White children. It is also the most positive and practical way to advance either cause.
Is this an issue in our own movement? Does our own personal behavior conform to our most fundamental beliefs about White survival? Are we too guilty of living “the childfree life” like the decadent liberals on the Time magazine cover?
In Defending The Master Race: Conservatism, Eugenics, and the Legacy of Madison Grant, Jonathan Spiro quipped that the majority of America’s most prominent eugenicists in the 1920s and 1930s were themselves childless:
“It is wondrous to witness the vehemence with which such childless figures as Madison Grant, Harry H. Laughlin, Charles W. Gould, Wickliffe P. Draper, Henry H. Goddard, C.M. Goethe, A.E. Wiggam, Frederick Adams Woods, Kenneth Roberts, Seth K. Humphrey, Francis H. Kinnicutt, John Harvey Kellogg, Houston Stewart Chamberlain, and Charles Stewart Davison set about attacking the genitals of the lower breeds.”
In our own times, Pat Buchanan who is the author of The Death of the West: How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization and Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive Until 2025? is himself childless. Sam Francis and many other prominent nationalists never had children.
In a Southern Republic or a White ethnostate, would birth control and abortion be illegal? Would the divorce laws be changed? Would our culture continue to treat sex as a recreational activity – like in the modern United States and elsewhere in the post-Christian West – or would it be a procreative activity like it was in the past?
What are the long term social and economic consequences of fifty years of “the childfree life”? Is this sterile way of life even sustainable in the long run? If not, how should we replace it after we take power?
Note: I’ve turned the comment moderation system off for now. Please keep the OD comments civil and productive. I’m sure that everyone is getting sick and tired of having to wait for me to approve every comment.
Hunter, good point!
I have heard men in this movement who are in their 40s and 50s and childless, give women a hard time for being 30 and childless. And then they will say “we are fortunate enough to find a pretty, young, fertile 21 year old when we are 70 if we so desire”. Not necessarily. I remember being a 21 year old and I had no interest whatsoever in a man over 26 or 27, and definitely not over 30. Plus, I don’t get the impression that most men really want to be dads of small children while in their 50s.
Men have biological clocks too but they don’t run out as fast. We need to work together on this as a race and uplift each other. I can’t believe all the insensitive comments I see from men in regards to women’s biological clocks. It is not like we can help it. It is definitely something for us to be aware of, but don’t ridicule us for it.
“Does our own personal behavior conform to our most fundamental beliefs about White survival?”
For young White people like me who are under 30, I think intentions and future plans must be considered here. If all of us who are young and healthy intend to breed lots of White children in a few short years, than it’s just a matter of putting words into action. I don’t think Whites in this movement who are under 30, or even under 40, should be judged negatively for not having kids right at this moment. At least not without knowing why it is they don’t have kids yet. So if we assume that the intentions of young White people in this movement is to have children one day, than I’d say our behavior conforms to our fundamental beliefs even if we don’t have any children presently. That may sound wishy-washy, but there are valid reasons to be under 30 and not have kids yet. For one thing, we might not have found a suitable mate.
“Are we too guilty of living “the childfree life” like the decadent liberals on the Time magazine cover?”
Unless you deliberately don’t want to have kids for whatever reason, than I’d say the answer is no, even if currently many of us are by definition “childfree.”
“In a Southern Republic or a White ethnostate, would birth control and abortion be illegal?”
Yes. Unequivocally. As a recovered libertarian, I can say with confidence that none of us in this movement should give two shits about the “freedumb of induhvidullz” when it comes to these two things. Unless you’ve got a doctor-certified prescription explaining that you need birth control to prevent some kind of disease, it would be banned by the government. Funny, before the Griswold case in 1965, White Americans didn’t care that birth control was banned for all non-married couples. And it’s not like Amurrican culture before 1965 was hunky-dory. Birth control and abortion are the only reasons its even possible to have sex as a recreational activity in the first place. A morally sane White society would ban it.
Would the divorce laws be changed?
If nothing else, women wouldn’t have automatic custody of the children and wouldn’t be able to pillage the man of half of his private property.
Would our culture continue to treat sex as a recreational activity – like in the modern United States and elsewhere in the post-Christian West – or would it be a procreative activity like it was in the past?
Sexual libertinism doesn’t naturally exist in traditional White societies, so I don’t think this would even be an issue in the long run. At least not for Southern Nationalists. White Nationalists are another story. I’m growing increasingly tired of the “lets have freedumb/everything goes” mentality of certain White Nationalists, which is really just libertarianism disguising itself under the supposed racial interests of White people. A White ethnostate isn’t long for this world if a large chunk of its own people live for hedonistic pleasure.
“What are the long term social and economic consequences of fifty years of “the childfree life”?
Radical turbulence. And a subsequent internal shakedown of society as the next, bright cycle of history unfolds. The United States in 2013 is a late stage cancer patient, and it was born with cancer to begin with thanks to the Founders rejection of their White Christian roots (aw hell, half of them weren’t Christians anyway, and in 1789 half of them were hot as balls for the “Revolution of Freedumb” that was beginning in France). Sometimes I don’t like to sound so negative about the country I was born and raised in, but reality is bitch to those who were indoctrinated with fairy tales. Just look at the hundreds of millions of dollars in profits that charlatans like Glenn Beck rake in from exploiting these fairy tales. The circus is repulsive to watch.
http://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/glenn-beck-rally-300×199.jpg
Is this sterile way of life even sustainable in the long run? If not, how should we replace it after we take power?
Assuming a traditional culture is in place – and this is probably a reasonable assumption if an independent Dixie and/or White ethnostate comes to pass – then the answer is simple: Provide government subsidies for White couples to have as many children as possible. The more children, the more generous the subsidies. If an income tax system exists, it would punish the willfully sterile and reward the fertile. No more +40 year old single libertarians yapping away about “FREEDUMB” and “MY RIGHTS AS AN ADULT.” No more Ayn Randian “greed is good” bullshit. Supporting your tribe means ostracizing the annoying pissants whose ideological ancestors got their way once in the 1700s – with all the glorious consequences that entailed.
Never again.
Dissolve the Union!
Renee,
You aren’t judging me are you? I didn’t say I really chose to be over 30 without kids. I was 23 like you once, and I had a lot of boyfriends I really liked. It didn’t work out for one reason or another. As I said, I agree that it is ideal to be your age and have children. I would have loved that. And I am well aware of the fertility issues after 30, but it is still very possible to do up until you are 40. Fertility really doesn’t start going down until after 35.
It is very hurtful to judge a woman who is 30 and without kids, and that seems to be what you just did. It is not like I am unusual for being that way in this day and age. I never said the situation is ideal. I said we should be blaming society for it, and not women.
Hunter,
Please take Renee’s comment down, as well as mine directed at her I have put up since. I explained my situation over and over, and I feel like she is judging me on a very sensitive topic. I am hurt right now. It is your website….do what you like, but this will probably lead to further flaming on here if this part of the discussion isn’t taken down. She just wrote a post putting words in my mouth and lecturing me on something I am already well aware but can’t really help. I am infertile because I am 31? That is news to me. I thought it was more like 40. Not saying it is ideal to be over 30 but in today’s society that is pretty normal actually.
It almost never works out that way … unless you are Peter Brimelow, or have a ton of money or something. 😀
That’s why I had been getting so anxious about the issue. I had turned 30 years old. I wasn’t getting any younger. I didn’t want to end up like so many guys in the movement who are lonely bachelors in their 40s and 50s.
Fortunately, I don’t think it is an issue for me anymore.
Most people that graduate University, do not end up working in fields related to what they were trained in. When White countries were great, most people learned on the job. This is what we must return to.
I also understand if a women gets a degree, statistically, she is almost guaranteed to be childless. We need to explain this fact to younger women.
For most people University is a con. The only people that really benefit are the tenured professors.
And I thought I just got done explaining that I found a nice Southern man. But whoops, I am over 30….I guess I might as well end it with him since I am an old woman and can’t produce children now.
And since certain people are bringing it up, I don’t think we should be labeling people as “people who chose not to have kids” unless they are 45 and you actually have evidence that they really did make that choice. Two examples would be a feminist career woman and a man who chooses to remain a bachelor.
I don’t see how I come anywhere close to fitting the category of “someone who has decided not to have kids”……not even close.
I seriously doubt you are infertile, Courtney.
I’m sure you are anxious about it though. I’ve been very sensitive about it too … which is why this story struck a chord with me. I think that is a normal reaction for people who haven’t had children yet after they hit their thirties.
I don’t think Renee was trying to attack you. If possible, I think we can all agree that it would be ideal for women to start having children early.
To Courtney in Alabama, the hostility that younger white women have towards dating white men only a decade older is why so many white men including an men are choosing non-american and in some cases non-white women over white american women.
Re: Dan
When I wrote those words above, I was judging myself because it is something that I think about all the time.
“You aren’t judging me are you?”
That’s what we do here and at every level (ethnicity, ancestry, religion, sex, age, education, income, career, geographical location, political ideas, musical tastes, etc. etc. etc…)
Oops typo I ment to imply that a segment of white nationalist men date non-white women.
Hunter, thanks.
Based on the ages that women are having children now (whether they have their first child before 30 or not), I can guarantee that there is a 99% chance I am fertile right now. I don’t understand why this is even a discussion. Fertility starts going down after 35, and it halts for women some time after 40. I am not at that point yet, and I am on the right track.
Did you see me write anything so far that would give anyone the impression that I think it IS NOT ideal to have kids before 25? All I am saying is that because of how society is structured, that isn’t what most people seem to be doing. We need to focus on the roots of why society is like that and fix it, instead of only giving women a hard time for it.
God has a hand in when you meet the right person also. A lot of people in this movement ignore that.
Based on everything I just wrote in all my posts, nobody on here should be lecturing me and singling me out for being 31 and without children, when I DO have it as a goal, and when I am currently with someone that I am very compatible with. I am not alone. This is actually normal in this day and age. I never said it was ideal, however. That is why we need to come up with solutions to fix the current problem.
rob,
You just proved my entire point of what is wrong with this movement. You are justifying miscegenation for a behavior that young white women exhibit that isn’t entirely their fault. Young white women today are conforming to what society currently expects of them. Has it ever occurred to anyone that young white women have parents who frown upon them dating older men? Has it ever occurred to anyone that most white women who go to college do so because their parents chose that direction for them?
Yeah, I know right?
Here at OD, we judge all of you damnyankees who live “north-of-the-Line” as the sworn enemy of all True Southrons and our slave-based Talmudic “Golden Circle” culture. Don’t even get us started on theology! 😀
I don’t think a guy should get married until he can afford to raise a family. 30 seems about the right/average age for a man to have established himself in life.
Courtney,
I am sorry if you felt I was judging you. I didn’t mean for it to come out that way and I’m sorry if it hurt you. I wasn’t talking about you in particular. I was speaking in general.
I guess you and I have different opinions on men though. I’m only 23, but my boyfriend is 32. I’ve always been interested in men older than me. My own parents are 11 years apart, and my grandparents were 10 years apart, so maybe it’s genetic.
I’m happy for you that you have found a good southern man. I honestly wish you well. You still have time to have children, and I hope you do. We need more intelligent white people in the world. I didn’t mean to start shit.
My own mother didn’t have my sister and I until she was in her 30’s. But my father started having children when he was 19, and stopped when he was 49. Which isn’t fair, but men stay fertile for longer. I’m the youngest of 5 and my mother had me when she was almost 38.
I didn’t mean to offend you, truly. My apologies.
rob,
The more I think about what you said, the more I am confused. Up until recently, women married men who were about the same age they are. Yet you want to single white women out as if there is uniquely something wrong with them for not liking older men. That doesn’t even make sense. Instead of attacking white women for finding it unusual to be attracted to a 40 year old when they are 20, why don’t we examine what most young white men who are 20 are doing, and how they are behaving. Are most of them wanting to settle down and marry? There are multiple factors to every problem.
That is the problem with women in general. They are driven to conform. You can they those men are not loyal to whites but what about the loyalty of young women who ride the courosel that roissy is always talking about?
rob, complaining about something that white women do based on their natural biological instincts, is like complaining about a crab pinching you when you stick your finger at it. Get mad at God for making women into conformists. I don’t understand what some of you expect from white women in this movement. This is why we need to change society and focus on roots to our problems.
And I never singled white men out for race mixing. I was only responding to the original point you were making. That was the only reason I brought it up.
Renee,
Thanks for clarifying. Sorry, I tend to be sensitive.
One thing I have to point out is that those men are to be found where wn overlaps with the manophere.
Re: Rudel
I see you caught that … LOL
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children.”
Basically roissy and the old inmalafide blog.
And even some of the guys on robert Lindsay’s blog.
I am about to drop out of this discussion. My apologies for starting a heated debate. I just want to clarify before leaving….. When I say in one of my recent posts that up until recently women married men about the same age, I am talking about the generations of our grandparents and great grandparents, and even our parents. They usually married out of high school and they were usually both 18 or 19 etc…..
Even if you go back and use “Romeo and Juliet” as an example (yes, I know they are fictional), or Joseph and Mary, yes the male was usually older but it was a matter of him being 17 or 18 and her being 14. The idea of a 20 year old wanting to be with a 40 year old has never been the norm in history, and it is actually something that happens in the Third World. It is abnormal.
Hunter, and Renee, your situations are completely normal, where the female is in her early 20s and the male in his early 30s. I don’t want you to think I was placing that situation in the same category 🙂 .
I had to address this:
I don’t think a guy should get married until he can afford to raise a family. 30 seems about the right/average age for a man to have established himself in life.
In a non-fucked society, men ARE established at 18 – 22. You spend your early teens learning responsibility and the family business, farming, consulting, whatever it may be, and the late teens refining your skills to the point that you can take over the business if you need to, get married, then spend 25 – 35 becoming a master at whatever craft you choose and teaching your children. Most middle class people will have their own businesses. Inept lower class works for the middle class, under a paternalistic manager. Only the top 5% go to college, as it was meant to be, anything more than the top 5% is a waste.
“Up until recently, women married men who were about the same age they are.”
They still do.
Median Age at First Marriage, 1890–2010:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005061.html
Rudel,
Very true! In a manner of speaking, OD is the real Political Cesspool.
The key there being … a non-fucked society. In Black Run America (BRA), you can lose your job if you have ever said the word “nigger” while being robbed at gunpoint twenty-five years ago.
That’s true.
The typical man is two or three years older than his typical woman. Even if a man is fertile in his forties and fifties, the chances of him hooking up with a young woman in her childbearing years diminishes with each passing year.
Young women on dating websites don’t go for guys in their 40s and 50s.
I never understood why so many WNs were into the “manosphere.”
Do they really think they are going to find someone worth being with in the long term by using a pickup line at a bar? I also cringe whenever I hear the term “men’s rights” because it sounds like “women’s rights.”
“Only the top 5% go to college, as it was meant to be, anything more than the top 5% is a waste.”
How true. Nowadays having everyone go to college only extends the length of time for adolescence.
Hunter Wallace says:
August 6, 2013 at 12:42 am
“Young women on dating websites don’t go for guys in their 40s and 50s.”
On Russian bride websites they used to say, 40-50 year men were okay, but that was 10 years ago, when their economy was bad. I don’t know if they are that desperate any longer.
I certainly wouldn’t marry an early 20s year old Western woman myself. They are no more mature than silly teenagers.
If anyone has scene loui theraux documentary on white nationalism’ tom metzgers sidekick who is a wn was dating a harniza in Tijuana who is about twenty years younger than him.
“Young women on dating websites don’t go for guys in their 40s and 50s.”
No, but unmarried 35 year old women sure do. (I’m not sure about dating website behavior as I’ve never been on one.) Look at the barely suppressed hysteria exhibited by Courtney. Imagine how it will increase if her current beau doesn’t pop the question and she becomes yet another year older!
That was cold, Jewdel. LOL
Rudel says:
August 6, 2013 at 1:18 am
“ Imagine how it will increase if her current beau doesn’t pop the question and she becomes yet another year older!”
Just think if Courtney were Black, she wouldn’t wait for him to pop the question, she’d just forget to take the contraceptive pill.
Not bashing Courtney, just saying White people are always waiting for things to be perfect, to have children.
It reminds me of the start of the movie Idiocracy, where the high IQ people did not have children, because the time is never right. Meanwhile the jobless retards are popping kids out, with anyone and anything.
This is very true.
It’s why I want to have children very soon. There is a window to do this (not just for women, but for men too) … and once that window is gone, it’s gone, and then you’re alone in your forties and fifties, and your looks are going downhill, and you start looking back on your life and regretting the decisions that you made when you were young and imagining how things might have been different.
I’m very, very relieved to have found a young, traditional Southern woman while I am still 32. Until recently, I wasn’t sure it was going to happen, but my fortunes have changed.
Courtney mentions that she enjoyed her many boyfriends in the past.
That’s probably the reason her current boyfriend has not popped the question. Why should he? She probably is already sexually active with him now. Most White women around the age of thirty have already had sex with scores of other men. Not exactly marriage material.
Re: Sean
No, Courtney is a traditional Southern woman.
“And if we want to step back and examine this with an even wider lense, I would say the majority of white people who are childless by 30 in this current day and age, are that way mostly due to circumstances. White people in my age group (under 35) who grow up in collegiate families, to give one example, are pretty much expected to go to college, and getting married under 25 is often frowned upon.”
Courtney, I am sympathetic toward you, as your situation is not rare. I have female family members who would love to be married with children right now, and they sincerely wish they could could go back and change a few choices they made, but they need to be honest about their mistakes and misplaced priorities to prevent their younger sisters from making the same mistakes.
“in a good way, as my anxiety about being 32 years old, single, unmarried and childless has finally abated. :)”
Congratulations HW, good luck and God bless the both of you.
One of the best comments that I have seen here or anywhere.
My own view of the question is fairly simple, as I believe that those who consciously and deliberately reject parenthood are worthless contemptible parasites. These people cherish and celebrate the gift their own lives represent, but openly and adamantly refuse to give that same precious gift of life in return. Whatever it is in their lives that they value, whether it is art, science, architecture, baseball, mathematics, film, theater, music, is because of people, meaning other people’s children. Children, for chrissakes, represent life. Without children, there are no people, and without people there is no music, theater, baseball, opera, science, etc. etc. Do these hateful fools truly not understand this simple fact?
Here’s some recent photos of your Dear Leader:
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/?attachment_id=48167
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/?attachment_id=48216
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2013/06/18/od-summer-fitness-thread/hunter-wallace-2013-3/
Lew, that reminds me of the scene in the leader’s “museum” from that mostly PC movie “Children of Men”. Although they laid the multiculturalism on pretty thick, the movie had some thoughtful moments. In the scene the leader is looking over his collection (works by Divinci, the David, etc) and another character asks him something along the lines of “what’s the point of a collection that will never be seen by anyone in 100 years?”.
Well I’m in my late 20s and you still look younger than me man, must be my years of hard livin’ coming home to roost. 🙂
Here it is, skip to 2:10. This is every childless white liberal as they look around their dusty Manhattan apartment twenty years from now:
I have spent the last three years getting in shape … it took me forever, but I did it because I always knew what I wanted and where I was going in life.
Now, I expect that I will soon have a wife and children. I’m very happy to be involved with the CofCC and the League of the South. I see myself getting more deeply involved with both organizations and OD evolving in a more activist direction in the future.
I don’t receive that compliment every day, and so I thank you.
Houligans? What sort of beer are y’all drinking?
Being a parent is a skill, just like anything else. Not everybody is suited to be a parent, and if such people become parents, they are likely to become bad parents. When white families had more than 10 children, they were usually malnourished, overcrowded and not well taken care of. That’s why many of the people from these big families did not want that kind of life for themselves and decided to have fewer kids, as well as adopting more liberal ideas. If society was working so well in the era when people were having more children and few people were educated, and everything worked the way Peak Finance said it did, it would still be that way. Sure there is some liberal/Jewish propaganda, but it would not have been effective without true discontent throughout the white population. This is a tough issue for me because as a Catholic I think abortion should be largely banned and I don’t like birth control; but I am planning on remaining childfree. Hopefully us childfree people will be in power to teach the children of traditionalists anti-racism.