Post-Alt-Right vs. Liberal Right

May 23, 2020 Hunter Wallace 2020 Election, Alt-Punditry, Conservatism, Liberalism, Libertarianism 40

In this thread, I look back on the alt-right and explain how my thinking and politics have changed over the course of the Trump era:

After thinking more about it, I continued with a second thread:

In summary, I now believe that it is impossible to reconcile a liberal social order whether of the conservative, progressive or libertarian variety with social stability, cohesion and continuity over the long term. You can have liberalism, OR, a homogeneous and stable society. Choose one.

I don’t identify with the “far right” or “extreme right.” I’m far from conservatives and libertarians and progressives too in the sense that I am in the middle of the electorate and dislike both sides. I see too much individual liberty and selfishness coming from one side and too much equality and humanitarianism from the other. Both come at the expense of what I want to conserve.

Note: The upshot of this analysis is that it is pointless to back one liberal faction or the other because both are ultimately corrosive and neither politically advance our objectives.

About Hunter Wallace 12392 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

40 Comments

  1. The history of the USA has been a long process of working out the internal contradictions at the heart of its foundation in liberalism. That is why any conservative desire to just roll back the clock is impossible. The changes that occurred in this country were a logical progression towards its liberal telos.

  2. Always been a fan of yours Hunter Wallace, but over the last couple of months you’ve gone full-legend with your coverage of the virus and the frauds that called it “just a flu”.

    I tip my Fedora to you, sir.
    !
    Keep up the good work

  3. It was doomed from the beginning because it full of guys with the interpersonal skills of Travis Bickle who were presented as eagle scouts. Guys who clearly thought they were going to run politics like they were Jimmy Hoffa—who went missing like Ricky Vaughn has, now that I think of it. Boy, that’s Spooky.

  4. The only thing you need is racism. Everything else follows from that.

    • @John Bonaccorsi…

      “The only thing you need is racism. ”

      Yes and no, Dear John. I mean, you can add all the correct philosophical elements you wish, but, if the political structure remains corrupt, then any plant, no matter how good, will rot from the root.

      Case in point – our economy. Nearly our whole manufacturing sector was shipped out over the course of 50 years, and neither racism or anti-racism has stopped it.

      All the laws have been on the books for ages, yet, nothing stopped them (a cabal of White Gentile males and Jewish financiers and businessmen) from doing it.

      Why?

      Because they are corrupted by their own self-interests.

      They have no loyalty to anyone but self, and heightened tribalism will not cure that.

      Chryst could cure it, however, because he is the answer to problems of the spirit, both individually and collectively.

      It is no accident that, as Christianity has diminished in this country, so has the country – both the culture and the government.

  5. How often in life do you work towards a goal and end up achieving the polar opposite of what you were working towards? That was the alt-right in a nutshell. They were ostensibly opposed to the Zionist neo-liberal world order and ended up electing the most pro-Zionist president in American history. A man who strengthened the Jewish stranglehold on western civilization in every aspect.

    The alt-right was pro-family until the gay put on a MAGA hat
    The alt-right was racialist until the black put on a MAGA hat
    The alt-right was antisemitic until the Jew put on a MAGA hat
    The alt-right was for traditional values until the cam-whore put on a MAGA hat

    Basically the alt-right was Jewish neo-liberalism in a red hat.

    • @Ricky…

      In a country with so many different kinds of folks and ways of life, it is difficult to see how restrictivism works – even without liberalism.

      The country has evolved to solely individualism and economic interests, not just because of greed, corruption, and alien interests, but, because these are the last things we have in common.

  6. The only way to implement political goals is to ally with either state or corporate power. Are we able to get what we want through backing corporations, or can we use the state for our purposes? The state is the more user-friendly option, if we can make votes more important than donor dollars. How we do that is through getting more involved in party politics. We’ll have to initially hold back on saying certain things, but as we build an identity bloc that can’t be ignored due to its’ size, we’ll get what we want anyway.

    Those wanting to establish a third party are dooming themselves to permanent irrelevance. Third parties are not effective in US politics. The Libertarians constantly tout themselves as being America’s third party, which is tantamount to saying they’re the most important powerless loser. Who cares about them, besides “lolbertarians” themselves? We should do what every other “interest group” does, and make us important enough to get courted by power-hungry pols. Or provide our own candidates, after we get enough numbers.

  7. Human beings are social creatures, and we destroy ourselves when we are not. The problem with conservative liberals is that they can’t distinguish between social and socialism. A big mistake. Social means organic and natural community. Socialism is artificial community created and imposed by force.

  8. “I don’t identify with the “far right” or “extreme right.” I’m far from conservatives and libertarians and progressives too in the sense that I am in the middle of the electorate and dislike both sides. I see too much individual liberty and selfishness coming from one side and too much equality and humanitarianism from the other.”

    I invite you to join the Radical Worker Party, https://rebelarmy.com/radicalworkerparty.htm

    • @Jimmy…

      i went to your link and had a good look at the party you are attempting to form.

      I do not wish to join a party, but, I liked what you wrote and, in general, it describes how I feel and what I would wish to see.

      I wish you all the luck, and when you begin to field candidates in North Carolina, or at the National Level, (if there still is a nation) I will vote for them, even if, at first, they only score a few percentage points in the polls.

      Thank you for your efforts.

      Your conscientiousness and what you are trying to do marks you as a worthy heir to our Southern Forefathers.

      You have not lost the blood that was in their veins – courage and a willingness to get down to the business of fixing the problem at hand.

      Thank you for that!

    • @Jimmy…

      The one suggestion I would make is to change the name of ‘The Radical Worker’s Party’, to The American Party.’

      Why?

      Because the word ‘radical’ will put off most of your fellow Southerners, not to mention rural and smalltowners everywhere.

      We don’t see ourselves as ‘radicals’, nor would we like to – even when we are.

      The term ‘worker’, is no helpful, either, because that term is associated with Commies and Nazis, and, even though some here will get their feelings hurt – The Average Joe does not wish to be associated with either, nor will he ever.

      Of course, some will say that you do not want or need ‘Average Joes’ but, I would submit that without a lot of ‘Average Joes’, it’s all a waste of time.

      The reason why I suggest the name’ The American party’ is because it feels like the vibe you have in your platform, and it is also the descriptive word that carries the most weight with The Average Joe and Josephine.

      ‘THE AMERICAN PARTY’

      • A hardcore nucleus is the key to success as are workers. What party has ever directed their effort at representing the interests of workers? I don’t know of any.

        As for radical, “of or going to the root or origin; fundamental,” the worker like the honey bee is the root of the matter. Health and life lie with the worker with the honey bee. A hardcore nucleus will embrace radical and disregard ‘Average Joe’s’ who will follow the hardcore nucleus.

        • @Jimmy…

          Okay, but a ‘hardcore nucleus’ will never turn into a beehive, in this country, with words like ‘radical’ & ‘worker’, which means that it will turn into what every other fringe political group has been – a social club for those who, considering themselves enlightened, spend their time reminding each other how right they are about all things and how stupid are the rest.

          in any case, thank you, again!

  9. Eh, I more or less agree with the concept that “Everyone who was Alt-Right went back to doing what they’re doing” but I see that as a step back and not a step forward. You’re never going to be able to unite everyone’s disparate belief systems if you don’t agree to unite under the same banner. Even the famed Hitler’s Germany had weirdo paganists in the same party as Catholics. It’s fine if you want to live in a neighborhood made up of people like yourself, but it’s another if you want to not live in a nation where a Libertarian would be asked to come to the aid of a National Socialist.

    Sometimes I think people on the right focus too much on what we disagree with each other on and not enough on where we agree. I don’t think it’s possible to have a monocultural far-right state but I do think it’s possible to have a United State centered around freedom of association. I don’t identify as a pagan or Libertarian but I think it’s entirely possible to live in the same country as one albeit maybe different parts of the country.

  10. @Mr. Griffin…

    “I don’t identify with the “far right” or “extreme right.” I’m far from conservatives and libertarians and progressives too in the sense that I am in the middle of the electorate and dislike both sides. ”

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    I thought you had this problem solved years ago – you’re a Southern Nationalist.

    Doesn’t that say it all?

    Okay, maybe not, because you are eclectic, too!

    Still, while you’re casting labels aside, it seems to me that this one fits.

    It certainly fits me.

  11. Define Utopia Hunter. Show a manifesto … a plan, at least an outline. SAY, “Here’s what I stand for. Here’s an outline of the perfect country, money system, ethno state, laws, basics of a constitution, etc. This would help us understand the POINT of this blog. It’ll also stir up the trolls which = “about” 60 % of all commenters here.

    At this point, this blog is 90 % in line with MSNBC / CNN / Huffington Post !!!! It’s morphed.

    HOW do we, ( whoever we is now here, ) solve the problems and create Utopia ?

    • Texas is a good example of a dystopia.

      It is nothing but a Sunbelt economic zone now. In a few decades, 70% of the population will be black and Hispanic. It will be Mexico with a handful of conservative billionaires because of its “open for bidness” way of life. Perhaps you will still be there to rally the 25% of the White population to create the Confederacy 2.0.

      • Mr. Wallace,

        As of 2018, the Hispanics had increased to 40.4 percent while the whites dropped to 42.3 percent. The state’s black and Asian populations also grew in that time period, now accounting for 12.2 percent and 5.1 percent, respectively.

        Source–Newsweek 06/21/2019 Scott McDonald

        .

      • Still no answer to : Define what you want. Define a basic solution. John Mark ( YouTube, ) has a decent idea … but still leaves our areas open to ‘them’ moving in. I still think restructuring America into 4 or 5 Republics will fly with enough voters … thus giving ‘us’ a shot at Confederacy 2.

        Would love to hear YOUR idea(s) of how to fix this mess. Surely you have ideas for a solution …

  12. Shorter version:. OD’s host likes being on the winning team (tradition, defined as preserving what puts him and people with a similar mindset in control). He does not like those people who have a different view of life to have any ability to act on those beliefs. However, now the other team (the leave me alones) has the opportunity to give the unknown future a chance. He does not want to share anything with those Other People. That is a problem. Rather then try work out a modus vivendi that gives both views space to function he wants to impose upon others a life they detest. Which he bitterly complains about when done to him by those same others. I see a bit of a problem. Adults solve disputes by giving to get. Children pout. Guess who is who here.

    • I have a pretty clear record.

      I didn’t vote for George W. Bush in 2000 or 2004. I didn’t vote for John McCain in 2008 or Mitt Romney in 2012. I didn’t vote in the 2002, 2006, 2014 or 2018 midterm elections. Over the past 20 years, I have voted for the GOP in the 2010 midterm elections (the Tea Party wave election) and for Trump in 2016 (the MAGA wave election.) Ultimately, I came to regret both of those votes.

      I’ve always been a moderate independent swing voter with populist and nationalist tendencies. From the beginning, I have disliked mainstream conservatism when George W. Bush was president and plunged us into the Iraq War. The idea that I vote for “the winning team” is absurd. I’ve criticized Trump for three years now. I’m not voting in the 2020 election because I don’t like Trump or Joe Biden. I don’t want to be on either of those teams because neither of them reflect my political views.

      • Went to church with my wife tonight. I wore a mask and gloves. I would say about 10-20% of the congregation wore masks. No obvious age breakdown of those persons. No one else wore gloves. None of the pastors or singers or band members on stage wore masks. Ushers wore masks. Social distancing as far as seating was good, except family members did not space apart. We sat in back rows, so hopefully any virus particles did not reach our seats. Attendees mostly older, of course, evidently they relied on faith to protect them. Hope they get lucky, avoid contagion.

      • Not talking about politics. The candidates have staff rewrite bills presented by donor’s staffs, so voting irrelevant. I am talking about evolution and consolidation of changes created by lives as lived by safety first and adventurous citizens. We all have to live and let live. It is not possible to either freeze life forever or to constantly destroy everything. Compromise is necessary. You can’t impose your vision of a good life and neither can your enemies. That is the message I have imparted here since joining the OD community. Sorry if that seems harsh. I value tradition and obedience. I also value trying new things. So do you, and so does everyone else. That is the reality, so we must work out a way to live in harmony with each other. Killing all liberals would not change anything, as a new group feeling that way would be born and grow up. Same if they killed all traditionalists. Genetics rules. Humans need safety and freedom to survive. So you, sir, must try to find a way to live with those you disagree with. No other choice.

        • I find it bizarre that you characterize my views as always wanting to be on “the winning team” when clearly everything I have said about Trump for three years now illustrates my dissatisfaction with hollow, utterly meaningless “victories.” There are at least three elections in the archives of this blog in which I did not bother to participate. The fourth will be in November.

  13. And as commenter The Gray Ghost points out above, without stating a possible solution to the problems you rightly identify, the posts here ultimately have no value. What is to be done exactly to achieve your version of nirvana? Without a goal, all the information presented has no impact, and so nothing changes. I have consistently put forth an idea, the sovereign wealth fund based UBI, bringing Capital and Labor into a shared destiny so that material stability for all might be achieved, after which both sides in the culture war can live separately but in peace. That might not work, but at least I am putting in the effort to solve disputes. Anyone can complain. Hiding behind a contrarian persona solves nothing.

    • If what I have said above is correct, a liberal social order with a capitalist economy inexorably leads over the long term to social disintegration. You can have a country based on “liberty,” but you cannot simultaneously have social cohesion, stability and continuity. That’s the price. Personally, I don’t think it is worth paying. The solution is to downgrade liberty in favor of stability.

      • Notice, Hunter, that throughout the “West” (U.S., France, UK, Germany, EU, NATO, OSCE, etc.) the key word is not “liberty” but “INDIVIDUAL liberty”. You are spot on–individual liberty as the highest “value and principle” dissolves all cohesion and unity. It turns societies into strip malls.

        • There is a caveat to what I posted above–individual liberty as the highest “value and principle” dissolves all social instituions that complete with the state/central government. The central government has laid out for you the limites of your identity and “free” political thought: Republican or Democrat–pick one. The citizens only rights are to consume, vote, pay taxes and fight to force individual liberty on the rest of the world.

    • J R – I’ve SAID … the solution(s) START by forming a think tank. Careful talks about who to have on it and outlines of ideas. Then actually putting it together. Form ideas for solutions … then try to shoot them down. The few still flying can then be looked into more seriously. This is the beginning.

  14. Downgrade liberty ??!!! AND keep all the OTW’s, ( other than whites, ) ? Expand on that.

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