President Biden Is Pivoting From The Middle East

38 Comments

1. The pivot only means the Jews are going to be attacking China instead of the Muslims, for the time being. And I am telling you it is going to be the same people in media who so viciously attacked the Muslims for years and years who are going to turn on a dime and start attacking the Chinese. It is funny.

   Spermranch is already chomping on the bit.

   • Crimea bro

2. Biden has already announced that he’s going to re-do the Iran Deal. Whatever that will accomplish?

   I doubt if anyone here on OD has ever raised his voice to criticize a Jew, or spoken out publicly against Jew/Israel. Most of what goes on here is just cheap talk.

   • @Krafty Wurker

     Why aren’t you saying that the Iran Deal is a Irish-Catholic plot?

     Funny though – why would you care about the Iran deal, anyway?

     The only people who oppose the Iran deal are hard core Likudnik Jews.

     You aren’t a Jew, are you, Krafty Wurker? (I know you aren’t really a Protestant, by the way – you get the lingo all wrong.)

     “Most of what goes on here is just cheap talk.”

     We agree on that.

     So, you were telling us that the Iran Deal is really, really bad for Israel, er, I mean, for America, and this is all a Catholic plot by the Pope, right?

     • KW/Tom Watson is an anti-white who comes to disrupt our discourse. It’s easy to mimic basic WN talking points and then mix them with nonsense, anyone can do it. He is very similar to another long term anti-white troll, the gay interracial fetishist Andrea, who also mixes boiler plate WN language with trolling.

     • Olde Dutch is always good for a few laffs.

     • C’mon you have never spoken out publicly against the Jews/Israel. You just get on here and live your fantasy lives.

     • “The only people who oppose the Iran deal are hard core Likudnik Jews”:

       That is just not accurate. Not only Israel as a whole but the whole Western capitalist establishment is focused on overthrowing Persian Islamic socialism by any means possible, and putting a capitalist puppet regime in charge.

       “saying that the Iran Deal is a Irish-Catholic plot”:

       Iran is one region where the Papacy has little or nothing to gain, because there is little or no Eastern Orthodoxy to destroy or corrupt in Iran (not like Syria, which was the birthplace of Christianity – in Antioch and Damascus).

       • Re: “overthrowing Persian Islamic socialism by any means possible”:

         Good explanation here: http://thesaker.is/iran-socialisms-ignored-success-story/

         Islamo-socialist Iran under the strangling U.S. financial blockade that prevents importation of many essential medical supplies has produced its own coronavirus vaccine, and in the process of testing so far there have been NO adverse reactions. It has also built and launched its own space satellites and could produce nuclear weapons over a weekend, if it intended to, but Iran is not an aggressive nation.

         “Iran has not invaded another country in 300 years (…) Iran is a one-party system – that party defends the 1979 Revolution. China is a one-party system – promoting Chinese communism. Many would say the US is a one-party system – promoting imperialist capitalism. The difference between Iran & China and the US is that in the former their one-party systems are formalized, explicit and well-known; in the US it is informal, but just as strong, and maybe even stronger….” Ibid

       • LOL. Only the Irish Roman Catholics would have been stupid enough to get us into the Iran deal in the first place. Of course, those Catholic politicians no doubt got their cut of the pallets full of cash, which was probably smart on their part.

         • Here it is folks – as if it wasn’t obvious before, Krafty Wurker is now posting detailed, specific Hasbara about the Iran deal. Specific Israeli talking points about the Iran deal.

           It was obvious before, but now he has made it official.

           Congrats on coming out, KW.

3. Joe should be intercepting vaccine shipments from the EU to Israel. Return them to Germany and Belgium and leave a share for the Irish.

4. Re: “The demise of MIGA is one of the upsides of the Biden administration. We heard a lot of talk about America First from Donald Trump but he had an Israel First foreign policy”:

   You MUST be joking. There are no upsides, and there is no change for the better.

   “I hope we get back into the Iran Deal”:

   The Iran Deal was terrible enough, and don’t suppose that “we” are ever going take even one little step back to the less-criminal level of that terrible “deal.” No. In fact, the U.S.’s hybrid war to conquer ethno-socialist Iran is being accelerated now! You must read better sources of information!

   Re; “I’m also glad that Joe is ending support for the war in Yemen”:

   Nothing of the sort. It is merely a change of style, from the clumsy partially obvious to now, the completely devious, like some members of the Democratic Party’s “big tent” including Sanders and “The Squad” who play the anti-war role. The same U.S. support at the same level is simply being channeled to the Saudis through the U.K. (Boris Johnson regime), and the U.S. is now fully supporting instead of partially bombing its AlQaeda proxies in Yemen, attacking the heroic Yemeni forces from the rear!

   Re: “Biden is pivoting from the Middle East”:

   Nonsense! The Empire’s teeth and claws NEVER let go of a victim. The U.S. is building a new military base among the oil fields of Syria, and continuing to help its proxies steal the Syrian peoples’ much-needed oil. U.S. helicopters are reported seen shuttling revived ISIS proxy forces into positions behind Iraqi troops to do surprise attacks. ISIS is suddenly present in Syria again and “mysteriously” very well-supplied! The U.S. continues to prevent Syria from taking control of ISIS’s main “recruitment” (kidnapping) source in Syria, an enormous Syrian refugee camp near the Jordanian border.

   The U.S. will NEVER leave Afghanistan, and is using it as a springboard to deploy forces and proxy forces on the very border of Russia – in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and other former Soviet peoples’ republics in central Asia – and in Tajikistan and Kyrgystan on the border of China, adjoining the Uighur region. Afghanistan is not only militarily strategic to attack Russia, China and Iran, it is also rich in strategic resources such as lithium that the Empire “needs” and China must not access. Many reserves have just been discovered and never been tapped. Gold mining is just getting started. The minute the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, it went right to work finding and preparing to harvest the Afghan peoples’ mineral resources.

   The only sense in which “Biden” (the Empire, with Joe as figurehead) might be said to be “pivoting from” the Middle East is the sense in which it is focusing ever greater attention and resources on its hybrid war on China.

   Become accurately informed. Stop reading those free sample copies of Epoch Times that arrive in the postal mail, and don’t give views to (and be “hypnotized” by) pro-military, warmongering Faux News and other corporate mainstream “news” media’s war propaganda.

   • The U.S. under Neoliberal Joe has not taken one step back on Venezuela either (world’s largest reserves of oil). Exactly like the “Jared and Donald” administration, the “Kamala and Joe” administration fully recognizes its hired agent Juan Guaido to be the legitimate President of Venezuela!!! The Empire is still working on Bolivia (world’s largest reserves of lithium), and working hard to overturn the electiion in Ecuador (more oil), and working hard to overthrow socialism in Nicaragua and Cuba, and it has not overlooked the “danger” of semi-socialist AMLO in MEXICO. ALL the capitalist wars must and will go on!

     • Superficially, I’ll grant, everything you say sounds promising for American whites and for the Aryan breed in general; but in fact, it’s all just toilsome maneuver until we’re ready to sterilize nonwhites, starting with the Western Hemisphere’s vestigial paleoliths and the backward mongrels of the Central Asian race-sink. We just don’t have the heart for that.

       • “I’ll grant, everything you say sounds promising for American whites and for the Aryan breed”:

         Promising? I say it is horrifying. You cheer for even more imperialism, while claiming to belong to William Penn’s city of brotherly love….

         “sterilize nonwhites, starting with the Western Hemisphere’s vestigial paleoliths and the backward mongrels of the Central Asian race sink”:

         Unlke the U.S. that did a much “better job” of genociding the Indigenous. who you call “the Western Hemisphere’s vestigial paleoliths” – the populations of most Latin American countries are still genetically mostly Indigenous, and some (Bolivia for example) are mostly pure Indigenous – so what you are suggesting is the genocide of most of Latin America! As for “the backward mongrels” of Central Asia, some of them are intelligent enough to design, build and launch their own space satellite while under crushing U.S. sanctions, and not only Iran but most of Central Asia was more civilized and technologically advanced than Europe for several millennia, until the Renaissance.

         • “… most of Central Asia was more civilized and technologically advanced than Europe for several millennia …”

           Back in the Aryan days, of course …

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdia

         • PS Throughout the race-sink: Remnant of a noble breed …

5. A key under-appreciated point is that there is big intra-Jewish spat between the globalist Jews represented by Soros and the nationalist Jews represented by Netanyahu

   Biden is doing what Soros wants, Trump was Netanyahu’s pal

   The pushing out of Trump, and global covid lockdown etc, gave the global win to Soros … Netanyahu is tied to all those European anti-Soros right-wing people too, Orbán, Salvinim Le Pen etc

   Soros vs nationalist Zios is why Netanyahu has legal troubles in Israel and is on the back foot there

   So Biden-Harris are tied to the Soros-globalist Jewish gang … Soros actually funds some Palestinian stuff. There are still plans for a greater Israel and heavy Jewish ‘leadership’, but more ‘multi-culturalism’ for Israel itself, plus Arabs starting to timidly start on the feminism LGBT agendas etc, more peace with Israel, all part of the package

   —

   Hunter’s fellow writer on Unz Review, rebel Jew Gilad Atzmon, is talking on Unz about how the covid vaccines seem to be killing a huge amount of Jews, Israel being the most-vaccinated country in the world

   Israeli death rates skyrocketed after the covid jabs were given, with a lot of young people sick and dying all of a sudden too

   It is said to be part of the Soros game plan that the ultra-nationalist Israeli zios go down, as well as the USA

   —

   Speaking of covid – does Hunter have a view on why no-lockdown, no-rules Florida, and near-total-lockdown California, have the exact same covid death rate?

   Newsweek and Wall Street Journal are both quoting Johns Hopkins Dr Marty Makary, who says he thinks close to around 200 million USA people already have had covid exposure, with no symptoms for most … and that covid is essentially about to disappear within about 60 days … statistics are dropping radically in a way that can’t be explained by behaviour, vaccines or anything except herd immunity he says … most people just aren’t vulnerable to it – It was just the flu, bro, says the doctor, deadly for some for a while like the flu often is

6. JCPOA, Iran Deal worthwhile for Iran? Doubt it.
   Any deal entered into with US, Israel not good.

   Iran should consider itself better off when Trump canceled.

   A noose around one’s neck rarely a benefit.

   Creating problems, weakening Russia, China hurts Syria, Iran.

   Since few consider Biden or Harris in charge,
   who, what are making the decisions?

   • Re: The Indispensable Nation’s indispensable Opium Plantation (Afghanistan):

     Historic rate of increase in opium production, this year’s harvest expected to be well over 2,000 tons, a record 1,400 percent increase over last year’s crop! Heroin will be even cheaper now. Great money laundering opportunities to finance proxy armies and black ops! The system “works”!

     • https://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/internacionales/104360-afghan-opium-production-40-times-higher-since-us-nato-invasion

   • @ bjondo, satan and his useful idiot’s are the current shotcallers.

7. Re: “it’s another one of the upsides of the Biden administration”:

   In addition to pretending to be “pivoting away from the Middle East,” here’s yet another so-called “upside” of the Biden administration”: Figurehead puppet Joe reversed Trump’s executive order that had held back price increases for some essential medical drugs, such as insulin. Thanks to Joe’s executive order (really a CORPORATE executives’ order) the price of insulin just went “UPSIDE” over 500%.

   Speaking of the world’s highest cost of medical care, there is more and more evidence appearing (such as RNA in city sewage samples) that shows SARS CoV-2 was present in the U.S. BEFORE it appeared in China. Interestingly the second outbreak in China (Beijing) late last year was an ancestor of the then-current European strain; it had to be several years old (or months in a gain-of-function “research” lab) given the normal rate of SARS mutatiion, and had never been found in China before. Like the first infection of Wuhan at the time of the International Military Games, the second infection, of Beijing, was very strategically placed.

8. Pivoting from the Middle East means pivoting toward China. Nothing new. the U.S. has been pivoting toward China since Obama’s Asia Pivot. In fact it pivoted against China all through the Victorian Age and all through the twentieth century. Do you think the Chinese people will forget the history? I ran across this video of the Chinese song “As war approaches, Chinese nuclear power!” – which is most interesting because at around 50 seconds you can see horses wearing gas masks:

   • Fear not, Motherland!
     To battle we will go,
     Employing the technology, the techniques,
     We learned from the West,
     Which dragged us into the modern world,
     Away from our antique civilization
     That we learned from Aryans of an earlier age
     And on which we were never able to improve on our own!

     Whoops—it just occurred to me, comrades:
     Remember that elaborate mechanical device
     that beguiled Marco Polo
     At the court of the Great Khan?
     Yes—the one with the mechanical animals or
     Whatever the fuck it was?
     You’ll remember that William of Rubruck had seen it earlier
     And had learned it had been built by a white man,
     Whom the Mongols had taken prisoner
     in the eastern stretches of Europe, if I’m recalling correctly!
     Polo, of course, that dipshit, thought it some Chinese wonder!

     Well, let’s forget that part of history, comrades!
     And let’s not look too closely into the question how
     we Chinese invented the compass!
     Yeah, right! We invented the compass—
     And if you’ll believe that, I have a bridge to sell you,
     Probably that glass-bottomed bridge that “we” built
     Over that gorge a few years back!
     Well, actually, it was Israelis who designed it—
     But let us forget that history, comrades!

     Fear not, Motherland! America is now weak,
     Mainly because—well, mainly because it now
     Has a lot of Chinese and other non-whites in it!
     We should be able to go there now and
     Kick their asses!
     All we have to remember is how to use a compass,
     So we don’t end up kicking the asses of Siberians instead!

     And remember, artists of the Motherland,
     When you paint a picture of a heroic Chinese sailor,
     in Western sailor’s garb,
     Give him Caucasian cheekbones, not our flatter faces!
     People expect it.

     • “Yellow Peril”-ism eh?

       Some White Nationalists also believe, without evidence, that Mayan-Andean civilization was also founded by a few Whites, who were later exterminated or blended into the so-called “Landbridge Asian” population.

       The invention of the compass in China long predated the Mongol expansion to Europe. It was almost certainly developed by Han Chinese.

       I doubt that White people also came to China and invented gunpowder, paper and printing there, and domesticated and improved a large number of animals and plants native to East Asia, creating the world’s most advanced and productive agricultural system, that fueled the largest, most sustained population boom.

       Also there is no evidence that Whites came to China and developed the navy and merchant fleets that during the Dark Ages of Europe plied the China Sea and Indian Ocean, visited Africa, and may have reached the Western hemisphere long before the Vikings.

       Furthermore your post above implying that Sogdiana was White is refuted by existing two- and three-dimensional Sogdian images depicting themselves with very oriental features. Yes I’m aware that blue-eyed blondes, some of them called Aryans, have existed in the Middle East and Central Asia, as far as India, for thousands of years.

       • “[Y]our post above implying that Sogdiana was White is refuted by existing two- and three-dimensional Sogdian images depicting themselves with very oriental features.”

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdia#/media/File:Central_Asian_Buddhist_Monks.jpeg

         “I’m aware that blue-eyed blondes, some of them called Aryans, have existed in the Middle East and Central Asia, as far as India, for thousands of years.”

         Some exist here, too, in Philadelphia, where they were once the dominant population, which built this now-decaying place.

         “Some White Nationalists also believe, without evidence, that Mayan-Andean civilization was also founded by a few Whites, who were later exterminated or blended into the so-called “Landbridge Asian” population.”

         I’m not sure there’s no evidence. Wasn’t there a wall painting of a blond man being sacrificed on an altar somewhere down there? And weren’t some of the conquistadors welcomed as returned red-haired gods or something like that? Regardless, it’s suggestive, to say the least, that the Western Hemisphere’s stone pyramids are found exactly where a bottle thrown into the Atlantic off the African coast would wash up.

         “The invention of the compass in China long predated the Mongol expansion to Europe.”

         That doesn’t mean it long predated Aryan contact with China.

         “It was almost certainly developed by Han Chinese.”

         A meaningless statement. The events are obscure, to put it mildly, and occurred, I believe, when the Chinese were in contact with Aryan-speakers.

         “I doubt that White people also came to China and invented gunpowder, paper and printing there, and domesticated and improved a large number of animals and plants native to East Asia, creating the world’s most advanced and productive agricultural system, that fueled the largest, most sustained population boom.”

         So you doubt it. I don’t. When gunpowder, paper, and printing reached Europe, they were exploited with a vigor that the Chinese had never shown toward them. That suggests the Chinese hadn’t come up with them in the first place but had simply been using them uninventively.

         Though I won’t bother looking up the scholarly material, which I once posted here at Occidental Dissent, a bit of research should show you that the Chinese would have difficulty making a convincing case that the use of bronze—to speak of one of the earliest markers of civilization—didn’t come to China from elsewhere. The question is undecided, as far as I know, but I’ve never heard any suggestion that it wasn’t an indigenous development in the Caucasian lands.

         “Also there is no evidence that Whites came to China and developed the navy and merchant fleets that during the Dark Ages of Europe plied the China Sea and Indian Ocean, visited Africa, and may have reached the Western hemisphere long before the Vikings.”

         When Marco Polo was in China, the splendid cities he saw were on the country’s east coast, which were trading by sea with Aryan India. The pagoda is an Indian creation, not a Chinese one, and its name is an Aryan word. The Chinese borrowed it just as they’ve borrowed, more recently, skyscrapers.

9. “When gunpowder, paper, and printing reached Europe, they were exploited with a vigor that the Chinese had never shown toward them. That suggests the Chinese hadn’t come up with them in the first place but had simply been using them uninventively”:

   Yes, they also “played with” the compass, using it mostly for divination instead of advantage in warfare (especially naval warfare). Gunpowder and rockets were used for amusement instead of killing people; block printing, for mere recordkeeping instead of issuing political tracts and propaganda. I was already aware of your entire argument for Aryan superiority, but it is not proven. It is simpler to hold that the Chinese did invent these things (“The Four Great Inventions”) but did not have the same “needs” to use them as “Aryans” do.

   • “I was already aware of your entire argument for Aryan superiority …”

     No, you don’t seem to have been.

     “… but it is not proven.”

     Proven? One who’s interested in the subject, as I am, can barely start presenting a prima facie case before his words are being shoved back down his throat by the countless antiracists who want the subject not even broached.

     “[B]lock printing [was used] for mere recordkeeping instead of issuing political tracts and propaganda.”

     Whew—I must say that’s a novel argument, which amounts to “The development of printing was a bad thing.”

     “It is simpler to hold that the Chinese did invent these things (‘The Four Great Inventions’) but did not have the same ‘needs’ to use them as ‘Aryans’ do.”

     My own interest is in whether it’s true, not whether it’s simpler. The phrase “The Four Great Inventions,” by the way, seems itself to have been an Aryan creation, not a Chinese one. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Great_Inventions#Analysis )

     • “you don’t seem to have been (aware of it)”:

       Well, I was. I’ve not only read it, but also heard it first hand many times before. I simply don’t subscribe to it.

       Also I don’t need to open that link, since I knew Four Great Creations is an expression used by some Western historians. Confucian philosophy does include didactic-mnemonic numbering and listing, but it would have probably been “the Five” inventions. No I am not interested in Chinese philosophy, nor in the music, art or food. I’m very narrowly ethno-national in my tastes and interest. It also means respecting the right of ALL peoples to exist and be what they are. Being genetically and culturally different is not necessarily bad or inferior.

       Re: “development of printing was a bad thing”:

       It wasn’t bad. I simply noted that what spurred it on in Europe was political and religious confllct. Increased printing, along with literacy, allowed the commons greater access to knowledge, which is extremely good. On the other hand, print is another means of controlling the masses (propaganda) in plutocratic political systems.

       • Thanks for your reply. There are probably some things you and I see the same way and some we don’t, but that’s hardly unusual in human affairs.

         In case you or any of the other Occidental Dissent readers will be interested, the article at the link I’ll place below is fairly recent and in what can be called, I think, a mainstream publication. It treats the reemergence of a question that was first raised more than two centuries ago, I’m pretty sure …

         https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did-chinese-civilization-come-from-ancient-egypt-archeological-debate-at-heart-of-china-national-identity/
         (“Does Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?—A new study has energized a century-long debate at the heart of China’s national identity.”)

         Peace.

         • That is an interesting theory of the Egyptian origin of early Chinese bronzeware. But consider the political agenda of the journal featuring the article.

           Don’t overlook the Indus Valley civilization that you might say was Aryan, over the mountains to the southwest of China, that was also quite advanced when China was beginning to advance.

         • Yes, I thought the piece interesting; and yes, I did keep the possible slant of Foreign Policy mag in mind—or at least in the back of my mind. Don’t know whether you checked it out, but the piece contains a link to a Nature article by the researcher (and colleagues of his):

           https://www.nature.com/articles/srep23304
           (“Origin of the mysterious Yin-Shang bronzes in China indicated by lead isotopes”)

           That Nature article is a bit restrained, I think. It focuses on the scientific data that suggest the raw material of the early Chinese bronzes was from Africa. It doesn’t discuss any of the old Chinese historiography of the Xia dynasty.

           If you won’t mind, I’ll add a few remarks of my own, on this subject in particular and on the Aryan diffusion idea in general:

           1 — China isn’t old.

           2 — The world isn’t big.

           What do I mean by that? Well, let’s look at some of the numbers, i.e., the dates involved …

           The Yin-Shang bronzes date to about 1400 BC according to the Nature article. That puts their appearance about a third of the way through the Shang dynasty, which is the earliest Chinese dynasty that is firmly attested archaeologically. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty for dates of the dynasty.)

           Also according to the Nature article, bronze first appears, in Mesopotamia, about 5000 BC.

           So—let’s use those numbers and push the Yin-Shang bronzes another century back, to 1500 BC, to keep the arithmetic simple.

           What do we see? Well, if we use bronze as a marker of the start of civilization, we can say civilization is 7000 years old—from 5000 BC to AD 2000. Moreover, we can say China wasn’t part of civilization for the ENTIRE FIRST HALF of that period. We can say, in other words, that civilization in China is 3500 years old, but that civilization elsewhere on Earth—in Caucasian territory, to put it bluntly—had been around for that same amount of time, 3500 years, before China even got started.

           Now—is it really outlandish to think that in the course of 3500 YEARS (!), some persons from the Caucasian civilizations (including India) ventured by land or sea to China?

           I would say it’s just the opposite. It seems almost impossible that it didn’t happen.

           We’re not children. This isn’t ancient times, when Earth was a mysterious place that thinking persons were trying to figure out. We’re not entitled to say, “Ooh–China. That’s really far away—and like really ancient, with people who wore old-fashioned clothes.”

           The same is true of the possibility that the Mayans and Aztecs were visited by persons from the early civilizations of the Old World. The first Mayan cities aren’t that ancient—not compared to Egypt and Mesopotamia. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization for the following: “The first Maya cities developed around 750 BC, and by 500 BC these cities possessed monumental architecture, including large temples with elaborate stucco façades.”) The Aztecs aren’t even from “BC” times. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Aztecs for the following: “The Aztecs were a Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican people of central Mexico in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.”)

           So again: What are the chances that NOBODY from the early Old World civilizations, across THOUSANDS OF YEARS, reached the Mayan and Aztec territories, even if only by accident? Fifteen or twenty years ago, maybe, a ship filled with black Africans who’d been trying to reach EU territory from an oceanic starting-point somewhere on Africa’s west coast drifted into the Caribbean, with everyone on it dead. I’m going from my very-vague memory of a news story I saw about that—but my point is that they weren’t even trying to get to the Caribbean. They’d simply been caught up in the current that took them there, against their will; and they’d died of hunger, I guess, along the way.

           I’ll say again: We’re to think it all-but-impossible that even one person from the early Old World civilizations made such a trans-Atlantic journey across THOUSANDS OF YEARS?

           Again: We’re not children. The world isn’t that big.

           Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Silk_Road and see whether you’re still impressed by the Chinese fleets that “plied the China Sea and Indian Ocean, [and] visited Africa” during Europe’s Dark Ages. The Chinese were latecomers to that activity, just as they were latecomers to bronze and probably everything else. I think I saw at Wikipedia the other day a statement that DNA evidence indicates sailors from India had reached Australia by 2000 BC. (Let’s note, in connection with that, that some of the Australian aborigines are blonds.)

           And I’m not concerned with “Europe,” which is simply the locus of RECENT Aryan activity. Though you seem to have thought of Central Asia as an Oriental locale—by which I mean a place populated by persons of East Asian appearance—I’ve never read anything that suggests it was ever that. From my not-terribly-organized layman’s reading on the subject, I have the impression that that territory was “an earlier Europe”—by which I mean an Aryan expanse, just as Northern India was an Aryan expanse. Accordingly, I tune out when I encounter your statements about what the Central Asians were doing for thousands of years “before Europeans,” or what Chinese sailors were doing “before the Vikings.” In my view, the Central Asians were themselves Europeans, by which I mean Aryans, and the sailors of India were Vikings, by which I mean Aryans. The particular chronology might be an interesting question: Why did the Aryans get going in Central Asia and India, for example, earlier than they did in Europe? I don’t know. Maybe it’s an interesting question, to which there will someday be an answer, but it doesn’t make me think “Europeans”—meaning Aryans—were ever backward. It just means they weren’t yet in Europe.

           Well—that’s all I have to say for the moment; and I’ll have to hope Mr. W., our host here, at Occidental Dissent, won’t think it too large to post. The following, in case you didn’t see it, was also linked in that Foreign Policy article:

           https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5MDkyNDIzNw==&mid=207684878&idx=1&sn=56eac09ce9106a081be0ad0d8b3da00e&scene=19#wechat_redirect

           That’s a column by Sun Weidong, the geochemist with the Egyptian theory. In case, the Foreign Policy article didn’t make it clear, what he’s saying is that the Xia dynasty—the first Chinese dynasty—wasn’t in China at all. That would explain why that dynasty has proved archaeologically elusive (as it seems to me and, I’d bet, to him). If I’m not mistaken, there was a period—not sure when, but maybe for a few decades in the early twentieth century—when some Chinese thinkers doubted that the first two dynasties, Xia and Shang, had existed at all; but then the Shang dynasty site with the famous “oracle bones” was found. Xia has been harder to find, I think. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia_dynasty#Archaeological_discoveries for some info on that.)

         • Re: your 28 February comment:

           Yes I had opened and read the article linked in your previous comment. Your selections are good, your comments intelligent and worth reading. I also thank Hunter for allowing us to continue this tangent.

           My understanding, from reading other sources, is that the location of the first mature bronze age Chinese culture has been determined to be somewhere in the upper reaches of the Yellow River well within China proper, and that bronze metallurgy existed in several other, earlier cultures that were located to the EAST and it did not appear suddenly in China during the Xia or early Shang periods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia%E2%80%93Shang%E2%80%93Zhou_Chronology_Project

           During the “century of humiliation” when China was defeated and fully colonized, some self-hating, West-adoring Chinese historians doubted that China had ever originated anything important except some agricultural crops and techniques. But the truth is that both Caucasian and Asiatic peoples are capable of invention.

           Re: ” We can say, in other words, that civilization in China is 3500 years old, but that civilization elsewhere on Earth—in Caucasian territory, to put it bluntly—had been around for that same amount of time, 3500 years, before China even got started”:

           Neolithic cultures involving agriculture, urban life, and copper and bronze, existed in China MUCH earlier than 1500 BC. The still EARLIER (but not 3500 years earlier) large-scale manifestations of civilization, and metallurgy, in Mesopotamia and the Nile and Indus valleys can be explained partially by ideal conditions for agriculture – mild desert climate with reliable shallow-well water supply and deep rich easily-cultivated alluvial soils with annually-renewed fertility (by regular flooding) – that allowed an abundant food supply that allowed leisure time for further invention and literacy. You might argue that these earliest valley civilizations were populated mostly or entirely by Aryans, and that an “Aryan temperament” and superior intelligence was required. I know that real Aryan people existed, and still exist, in Central Asia, from Iran to India at least, including many blonde and blue eyed to this day. I know Europe and East Asia were still “backwaters” when advanced civilization had existed for centuries in some Eden-like valleys of Egypt and Central Asia. I think the main point of difference between us is whether or not any NON-Aryan people, in particular the Chinese, were capable of creating civilization, or are mere inheritors, borrowers and skillful mimics.

         • Thanks again for your reply, anonymous.

           “My understanding, from reading other sources, is that the location of the first mature bronze age Chinese culture has been determined to be somewhere in the upper reaches of the Yellow River well within China proper, and that bronze metallurgy existed in several other, earlier cultures that were located to the EAST and it did not appear suddenly in China during the Xia or early Shang periods.”

           Whether Sun Weidong is mistaken in speaking of the Shang bronze as a sudden appearance of bronze in China, I’m certainly not qualified to say, but that does seem to be the way he speaks of it. For whatever it’s worth, he mentions, too, that all the early Chinese bronze is tin-copper bronze, i.e., that there is no arsenic-copper bronze, which, in the West, was bronze’s earlier form.

           In emphasizing the location of early Chinese bronze on the upper Yellow River “well within China proper” and, at an earlier stage, “to the EAST” of that, you seem to be trying to counter any suggestion that bronze came into China from regions to its West, but that is significant only with respect to arrival of the bronze by land. If it came by sea, then we’d expect to find it at a spot like that old Shang capital, on the Huan River, which empties (ultimately) into the Bohai Sea (as does the Yellow River). I’m reminded of the Vikings who sailed up the Seine to attack Paris and who included Rollo, ancestor of the English monarchs from William the Conqueror to the present Elizabeth II.

           In his column I linked in my previous comment, Sun Weidong speaks expressly of arrival by sea and even seems to be saying that the Shang “oracle” bones are made of shells from animals from the area of the Malay peninsula, i.e., an area along the route from Egypt to China.

           “But the truth is that both Caucasian and Asiatic peoples are capable of invention.”

           I don’t know whether that’s “the truth.” It’s the question.

           “I think the main point of difference between us is whether or not any NON-Aryan people, in particular the Chinese, were capable of creating civilization, or are mere inheritors, borrowers and skillful mimics.”

           Yes.

           When I was very young, long before I’d heard the word Aryan or anything about racism, it seemed to me that whites had created and were continuing to create the modern world in which I lived and that the non-white peoples were simply along for the ride. At the same time, I knew there had been civilizations in non-white places in pre-modern times and that even the African tribespeople in jungle movies had inventions like shields and swords. This puzzled me.

           When I first heard, either in high school or late elementary school, that Hitler had spoken of “Aryans,” who were fair-skinned, fair-haired, and blue-eyed or whatever and who, in his view, had created all human civilization, I thought it interesting, partly because I myself had always, if only vaguely, thought of those physical types as, let’s say, the true whites, who had been doing all the civilization-creating. There was still the puzzle: What could Hitler have been talking about? What about ancient India and Babylon and the Africans with their shields and swords?

           Not until I was in my late thirties or early forties, when I began to look into a few subjects that were on my mind, did I learn the basic idea or theory, i.e., that the non-Aryans had acquired their cultures and civilizations via contact with Aryans, contact that had taken place long ago and of which there might be evidence or other indications. Since that time, I’ve looked into the subject, not rigorously probably, but not desultorily either.

         • Arsenical content of the bronze in different areas depended on the purity of local copper ore deposits, some containing a considerable amount of copper arsenate, or actually laced with arsenic ore. Deliberate addition of tin ore, which is not often present with copper ore, was a definite advance, because the alloy was harder and more useful, easier to re-melt and re-work, and the miners and smiths didn’t get sick and die at an early age. Regarding those seashells from the Malay peninsula, which also happens to have large reserves of TIN ore, they would have been accessible by well-worn inland and coastal trade routes to China as well as by sea.

           It all comes down to whether you believe only Aryans are truly inventive/creative, and that non-Aryans such as Chinese people can only mimic Aryan behavior. The belief in Aryan Creativity as a manifestation of our superiority and destiny to rule the world, supports U.S. and other Western imperialist conquest and exploitation of all non-Aryan peoples,

           But there is plenty of CONTEMPORARY evidence of Chinese and other Asian creativity, even if ancient evidence of creativity really were absent.

         • “Arsenical content of the bronze in different areas depended on the purity of local copper ore deposits, some containing a considerable amount of copper arsenate, or actually laced with arsenic ore. Deliberate addition of tin ore, which is not often present with copper ore, was a definite advance, because the alloy was harder and more useful, easier to re-melt and re-work, and the miners and smiths didn’t get sick and die at an early age. Regarding those seashells from the Malay peninsula, which also happens to have large reserves of TIN ore, they would have been accessible by well-worn inland and coastal trade routes to China as well as by sea.”

           That might all be true, but those two subjects—(1) China’s leapfrogging the arsenic stage and (2) the position of the Malay shells on the route from Egypt to China—merely bolster Sun Weidong’s argument (or so I took them). The argument’s core is the radiogenic profile of the bronze.

           “It all comes down to whether you believe only Aryans are truly inventive/creative, and that non-Aryans such as Chinese people can only mimic Aryan behavior.”

           No—you’ve stated things exactly backwards. It all comes down to what scientists will make of Sun Weidong’s argument about the artifacts’ radiogenic profile (and, of course, any other information that might appear). That might bear on the greater question—“whether … Aryans are truly inventive/creative, and … non-Aryans such as Chinese people can only mimic Aryan behavior”—but by stating things backwards, you show you don’t want that question explored.

           “The belief in Aryan Creativity as a manifestation of our superiority and destiny to rule the world, supports U.S. and other Western imperialist conquest and exploitation of all non-Aryan peoples …”

           Maybe so, but that has nothing to do with the question itself.

           “But there is plenty of CONTEMPORARY evidence of Chinese and other Asian creativity, even if ancient evidence of creativity really were absent.”

           Maybe so, but any creativity they’re exhibiting presently, while they’re in full, stimulating contact with the Aryan West is rather beside the point.

           PS Speaking of cultural influence by the land route …

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_pyramids
           (Chinese pyramids – Wikipedia)

           Many sitting within about twenty miles of Xi’an, the Silk Road’s starting point—or end point.

           PPS As you might well have figured, I meant to say “spears,” not “swords,” in my previous post, when I was speaking about the items used by African tribespeople.