I’m still thinking this morning about the “NS” fandom.
As I said yesterday, I sharply distinguish between historic National Socialism and what I see as the “NS” fandom, or what is more commonly known as wignatism in the United States. I do not conflate the two movements and see all sorts of important differences between them.
Andrew Anglin has written at length about Neo-Nazis, but I prefer to just ignore them.
1. Historic National Socialism was a German volkish movement. It was based in Germany in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s and expired at the end of World War II. The “NS” fandom is a postwar phenomena and consists of admirers all over the world. The bulk of them are English speakers. The overwhelming majority of the fans are not Germans themselves. I’m not reacting to anyone who is German.
In much the same way, The Beatles and Rolling Stones have fans all over the world. Taylor Swift has fans all over the world. There are Trekkies and Harry Potter fans all over the world. Historic National Socialism was an ethnic based movement, but the fandom isn’t based on any one ethnicity.
2. Adolf Hitler was the Führer of historic National Socialism. The original mass movement based in Germany had a vertical hierarchy with Hitler on top. In contrast, the “NS” fandom is anarchic. There is no recognized leader or organizational structure. The German sense of order is completely absent from the phenomena. There are various wannabee führers like Commander Schoep who pop up from time to time who have tiny followings and who command no legitimacy even within the fandom.
3. Historic National Socialism was a viable political movement in Germany. The NSDAP was a political party like other political parties. It was the political vehicle of a faction in German society that competed with other factions for state power. It had a political program. It elected people all over Germany starting in Bavaria and spreading outwards. Hitler worked within the system to rise to power.
The “NS” fandom admires historic National Socialism, which was the original act, like other fans who admire Harry Potter, The Beatles or The Rolling Stones. In particular, the fandom loves the National Socialist aesthetic and cosplay, which has been adopted by fans like Marilyn Manson. The fans imitate the NSDAP by creating “parties” with members like the National Justice Party, but which are fake in that the vast majority of these “parties” do not bother to participate in the political system.
George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazi Party, ran for governor of Virginia in 1965 as an independent write in candidate and won 1% of the vote. Glenn Miller ran for U.S. Senate in Missouri. These are exceptions to the rule in the “NS” fandom. Generally speaking, the fans are content with belonging to “parties” which do not engage in political activity. The most striking difference is that many of the loudest voices in the fandom are quietists who advocate total political disengagement or even going so far as to advocate empowering the Left which was unthinkable to the original movement.
Can you imagine the original National Socialists endorsing and proudly voting for Kamala Harris? The historic National Socialist movement was intensely political. The fandom is anti-political and focuses on demoralizing and demobilizing Whites and losing at politics.
4. Historic National Socialism was intensely patriotic. It was a German nationalist movement that made maximalist claims on the territory of its neighbors. It was militant, chauvinist and jingoistic. It was essentially a Germanic supremacist movement which placed Nordics at the top of a racial hierarchy and which saw other Europeans as lesser races and non-Whites as even more inferior.
Many of the wignat fans couldn’t be more removed from historic National Socialism. These people are anti-patriotic. They despise their own country. They love foreigners and particularly Muslims and the Chinese. They do not romanticize the “volk” like historic National Socialists. Instead, they look down on them as “creekshitters” or “Rightoids” borrowing terms from Swann Marcus and the Chaposphere. They ignore everything the National Socialists believed about race too. Many of the biggest fans are black and brown Americans like Kanye West who would have been classified as Untermenschen.
5. Historic National Socialism was animated by lots of things, not merely antisemitism, like German volkish ideology, anti-communism, fear of the Left, resentment over the loss of territory and Hitler’s vision of eastward expansion. This is what led to conflict with the Allied powers.
The “NS” fandom is mostly non-German though and doesn’t care about these things. They are not interested in the injustice of Germany’s present day borders or volkish ideology or German colonization of Ukraine. The fandom just isn’t animated by the same things. Unlike the historic National Socialists, who were parochial “petty nationalists,” the fandom wants to “tell the truth” about the history. It attracts history spergs who like Civil War buffs or Trekkies love to master the lore and the canon. The fandom is attracted to the National Socialist aesthetic because it is the bogeyman and can be used to shock liberals. The same impulse to “shock the bourgeoisie” animated the avant garde.
6. The “NS” fandom is intensely focused on anti-Zionism which is hilarious in that the historic National Socialist movement facilitated the transfer of European Jews to Palestine.
7. The role played by antisemitism was different in historic National Socialism and in the “NS” fandom. Kristallnacht, for example, didn’t happen until 1938. This was years after Hitler came to power. Hitler focused on the German economy, rearmament and territorial grievances.
Whereas the fandom wants to focus exclusively on “antisemitism” and endlessly drone on about Jews like a broken record because “nothing else matters,” Hitler addressed the priorities of his supporters like the economy. Hitler wasn’t a crank. Hitler’s views of Jews did not cause him to write off “the System” and give up on politics. He was a gifted speaker who was very successful at politics. He worked with conservatives. He had Christian supporters. He trimmed his sails in the Night of the Long Knives. Hitler was a cunning political operator who repeatedly outmaneuvered his opponents.
The original National Socialists participated in politics and wielded power against Jews. The “NS” fandom abandons the political field to the Jews and yearns for Jews to wield power against Whites.
8. As I understand it, historic National Socialism is like a custom made suit tailored to the German ethnicity, culture, organic historical experience and intellectual climate. It makes no sense at all without Germans. It is not a universalist ideology that can be tried on like an ill fitting pair of pants. My brother-in-law is of German descent and anyone who knows Germans knows how they are. The original National Socialists understood that National Socialism cannot be done without the German race-soul.
9. The “NS” fandom seems to engage in everything but participation in politics – fantasy, entertainment, comedy, talk radio, historical revisionism, esoteric UFOs in Antarctica, End Times prophecies about “The Collapse.” I can think of fans with shows who remind me of Michael Witzigmann in Look Who’s Back. None of the “NS” fans remind me of anything that I have watched or read about the Third Reich.
10. Historic National Socialism attracted winners.
Love him or hate him, Hitler was one of the Great Men of history. A thousand years from now Hitler will be the most remembered man of the 20th century.
The “NS” fandom attracts of legions of losers, outcasts and dysfunctional people. It is suffused with a loser mentality about everything. This is a key difference. The fans are losers at politics and losers at relationships and will talk your head off for hours about both subjects. The bitter hatred of White women that you find among the incels who are “NS” fans is foreign to National Socialism. I don’t know how else to describe it except to say that an aura of negativity and misery emanates from the fandom.
The “NS” fandom has podcasts and shows which remind me of End Times televangelists. Just as the televangelists interpret current events through the lens of the Book of Revelation, loserpilled “NS” fans do the same thing except they react to current events and interpret everything that happens after the fact as a Jewish plot and victory and a defeat of White people. In Trump’s first term, Q deciphered the plan for faithful, plan trusting Trump supporters. JewAnon does the same thing for “NS” fans replacing the will of God with all-powerful Jewish plots thereby crippling the will of activists to do anything. There are people in the “NS” fandom who are also dumb enough to consume and swallow this shit.
It would be one thing if “NS” fans were merely criticizing Donald Trump who is a politician with all sorts of flaws. Having a loser mentality is not one of them. Trump has an amazing ability to power through. These people have developed such a strong loser belief system though that they don’t get off the couch to attempt to advance their own ideology. As they say, “there is no political solution.” Along with black and brown Americans, losers have become a large and loud part of the “NS” fan base.
To put a bow on this discussion, there is a conceit in the “NS” fandom that as fans they are somehow like the historic National Socialist movement in Germany in the 1930s, but I don’t see it. They are leaderless, disorganized, content consumers who are scattered across the world. They are not German. They are not patriotic. Many of them are not even White. They have accepted their status as losers. They have given up on politics and their toxic subculture encourages other people to give up with them.
If Hitler were to return tomorrow and see these fans, he would probably agree with me that the “NS” fandom is an obstacle to doing anything. He wouldn’t be surprised that these people haven’t succeeded at life or politics. These people would surely tell him things like “there is no political solution” and we ought to do nothing but live vicariously through Arabs while waiting for the collapse of civilization.
What would Hitler do? He would probably become exasperated with these people and send them to Buchenwald.
I think is also because USA have a different kind of political approach. I’m Europe you have a movements that have a clear hierarchy and also a structure and are few. Instead, for what I know, in the USA historically you have a lot of little movements separated by each other. One example is the Kkk, how many factions of KKK existed and still exist?? How many factions of Neo Nazi movement existed and still exist?? Instead in other countries not always but often you have one recognizable movement: Golden Dawn, Casapound, Nordic resistance movement, Jobbik, English defense league and others. What people don’t understand is that a movement of 20 people is irrelevant, because is too little. You have some branches of Neo Nazi and Klan that are composed by 10 or maybe 20 members? Where do you want to go with so few people?
Instead league of the south is an example of a movement with a good organization and recognizable.
One of the other posters said it best on the last post about this: By your fruits, ye shall know them.
How many kids do our resident Natsocs have? Oh, right. None. Because “the jews would just brainwash them”.
“the jews would just brainwash them”.
yep – that’s the whole issue.
And what, pray tell, kind of children would be created from your poisonous bowels? The only thing you could produce would be obedient, little slaves who’d do nothing for anybody, just like you. Like after like, correct?
Nazism has been illegal for 80 years in Germany, with extremely harsh sanctions. If not for that a New Nazi party would have been elected long ago in Germany.
Central to Nazism was race. The Germans are still 75% of the people and over 80% of the voters in Germany. If it were legal a NS type party could win in Germany.
Here in America whites are a fast shrinking minority. Even worse, whites are not one race, but broken into dozens of ethnicities, all hating each other.
The only viable path for us is secession.
As someone who is very familiar with and even had lived in germany you are delusional. The closest party would be the NDP and they are universally hated, no one want anything to do with them. Also legal or not the mentality is they don’t even talk about it outside of academic setting.
“The only viable path for us is secession.”
EXACTLY what I’ve preached my entire life…
You bring up the question of what people actually want.
Think I want to see the rich and powerful go down hard more than I want Whites to unify. I want Whites to survive, but I don’t want Whites to start seeing other races instead of the system as the enemy.
This thread made me realize how much things have changed since thephora, thelyceum, odessa syndicate etc.
Got to be honest, think I’m a hangover from a past era (I have known Hunter online since 2006) and not really well fit into the current makeup of the website.
It is inchoate fandom, but not because of some intrinsic flaw. It’s because the necessary foundation was never built.
Historically, NS/WN groups in the U.S. have functioned less as serious political movements and more as astroturfed pressure valves for the FBI. The system needed a cartoon villain, so they helped create one: elevating the lowest IQ adherents, isolating them through social pressure, then nudging them into becoming the exact caricatures that justify further suppression.
Now, as the truth becomes undeniable, young men seeking direction find themselves adrift, with no real organizations, no leadership, and no structured worldview beyond the fragments they’ve pieced together online. They grasp at something real, but the groundwork was systematically destroyed before it could ever take shape.
I admit that I am trolling the trolls here.
I’m just exasperated with these “fans” who do nothing but whine all day. I’m tired of black rappers in swastikas parading around their naked wives and mixed race ecelebs like Nick Fuentes. I’m tired of people who are “antisemitic” to the point that they are absolutely crippled by fatalism and who are like doomsday televangelists.
To be clear, I am not criticizing everyone who identifies as a National Socialist, but a small, specific, loud group of people
It’s unfair to broad-brush people in America as inauthentic. Yes we’re not German people
Yes we can’t be identical with the “real” National Socialists.
However, it’s wrong to mock people here that appreciate Hitler.
As for the supposed defect of not loving America ??.
People can certainly have noble ideals without the patriotic nostalgia of their peers. America has lots of dirty laundry.
It is a fandom.
The fans are also nothing like the original National Socialists. They call themselves “NS” and take themselves seriously while doing nothing but creating “parties” which don’t do anything. They want other people to validate their identity. It would be like me LARPing as Hank Williams or Billy Ray Cyrus. Confederate reenactors at least understand it is a LARP.
“The role played by antisemitism was different in historic National Socialism and in the “NS” fandom. Kristallnacht, for example, didn’t happen until 1938. This was years after Hitler came to power. Hitler focused on the German economy, rearmament and territorial grievances.”
Hitler literally was passing antisemitic laws within two weeks of the Enabling Act being passed, the first of which being the law removing Jews from the civil service. The most autistic antisemitic laws, the Nuremburg Laws tracking Jewish ancestry, were already enacted in September 1935, while the Reichsparteitag was happening. And the reason it took them a couple years to enact it was because there was intense debate on specific details. It’s absurd to claim they weren’t thinking intensely about Jews during these years.
There’s too much bs in this article for me to factcheck.
Jews were tolerated for years as Hitler focused on more immediate priorities like the economy.
The text is immensely factious, biased, and imprints lies mixed with bits of truth. Point 4 about hierarchy and jingoism is one such point, which then suggests (like the westoid-liberal narrative suggests) WW2 started out of a manic obsession with maximalist territorial gains and ethnic extermination, because Painter Guy had nothing better to do with his time.
This whole text (along with Woods’ complementary quackery the other day) can be best read as a mix of emotional turmmoil (from dealing with working class racists), social status loss (again from dealing with working class racists) and [drumroll] national chauvinism, as these people, being petty patriotards first, and Europeists second, see a huge burden in the countering historical lies from the leader of another country. Ergo, they throw everything under the bus, put out this snobby pieces of text reframing and projecting nonsense on top of their targets, and proceed to tap themselves of the back.
Germany was starved by the blockade in World War I and Hitler was determined to create an autarkic economy by expanding east and colonizing Ukraine with German settlers. He saw Eastern Europe like 19th century Americans saw the Wild West.
It would be quite difficult to find a loser on the right than people who should know better from experience but still shill for Trump.
His biggest betrayals are yet to come.
Trump captured state power twice. MAGA is a political faction which captured and remade the Republican Party
But yeah, “people who should know better” should listen instead to people who created a fake political party which did nothing except collapse. Lmao
And they are using that power to give Israel everything it wants and make criticism of Jews illegal.
We will see if the wars in Gaza and Lebanon heat back up and where things go with Iran. The status quo we have right now is a lot better than last year.