Warren Balogh writes:
This is an excellent question.
What is the movement in 2025?
Is it National Socialism? Is it White Nationalism? Is it Southern Nationalism? Is it Christian Nationalism? Is it White advocacy? Is it paleoconservatism? Is it populism? Is it the Alt-Right or Dissident Right? How does it relate to Donald Trump and the MAGA base and mainstream conservatism?
Personally, I will say that my identity and values are rock solid. I’m pro-White, pro-South and pro-Christian. I’m a populist and a nationalist. I have always agreed with a lot of paleoconservatism, which is to say, things like immigration restriction, protectionism, an America First foreign policy, opposing cultural degeneration and so on. I agree with race realism. I can wear a lot of these hats which tend to overlap. Southern Nationalists, for example, want to preserve both our race and Christian culture.
My perspective is thoroughly American and rooted in my ethnic and religious identity. I believe in things that White Southerners in the Deep South have always believed. I’m an Anglo-Protestant. I’ve never been interested in imposing “National Socialism” on the South or America. That’s not because I have an overwhelming animus against the historic National Socialist movement in Germany. It is because I understand that White Southerners are ethnically and culturally different from Germans and it cannot be transplanted here. We have a different historical experience. The Anglo-Celtic race-soul, which owes so much to Baptists and Methodists, is individualistic and has a innate dislike of being organized. When White Southerners try to LARP as “National Socialists,” it simply doesn’t work because of our innate character. It is an ill fitting suit and anyone who is watching the spectacle can spot a fake a mile away.
Smart people who have been in the “movement” for decades are familiar with the flaws of these labels. White Nationalists want a “White ethnostate” which is an abstraction that exists only in their own minds. It is not a nation or a place. It does not command the allegiance of White Americans who are patriotic Americans. White Nationalists are culturally divided, bicker endlessly among themselves and are unwilling to move to any specific region of the country like the Northwest to form intentional communities and secede. Their political demand is only the dissolution of the United States which is a tall order.
Southern Nationalists have a similar problem although I don’t think it is as great as the obstacles to White Nationalism. White Southerners are so deeply rooted in the United States that they identify as ethnic Americans. The vast majority of White Southerners are patriotic Americans. The South is culturally distinct and millions of White Southerners are at least open to the idea of a National Divorce, but we are vexxed by fact that the overwhelming majority of Southerners support Trump and MAGA. We also live in the Gilded Age of the Sunbelt in which states like Florida and Texas have never been more powerful or influential. Unlike in the 1850s, the North is no longer a rising industrial colossus on the cusp of dominating the Union. Northerners can’t abandon their own states fast enough to move to a dominant Sunbelt. Why would White Southerners secede from the Union when the pendulum is swinging back in their direction?
Christian nationalism has its own set of issues. The Christian nationalist movement is divided between the young, restless and redpilled and pro-Israel BoomerCons like Doug Wilson. Both factions support Trump and are pleased with the vast majority of things he is doing. White evangelical Protestants in the South have been largely successful in banning transgenderism and abortion. Several Southern states have passed age verification laws to crackdown on sites like Pornhub. Unfortunately, the Christian nationalist agenda has stalled in a lot of Red States like Ohio, Kansas and Montana, as it divisive within the Trump coalition. Trump himself is unwilling to support a national abortion ban because a large swath of MAGA, the “Barstool conservatives,” is socially liberal and supports abortion and gay marriage.
The “Alt-Right” collapsed after Charlottesville and never recovered. The “Dissident Right” no longer makes sense in the Trump 2.0 era. The vast majority of people who are “Dissident Right” support Trump’s agenda. The people who are “dissenting” now are neocons like Liz Cheney. The “Dissident Right” is just a part of the MAGA base which includes virtually all paleoconservatives, a considerable number of libertarians, all the Christian nationalists, nearly all rightwing populists and many White Nationalists. Most people who see themselves as White advocates are also happy about a lot of things Trump is doing. Collectively, the online Right has become the id of Trump’s base with people who work in the White House performing for the audience on X and trying to impress them. The outsiders have become the new insiders.
Prior to 2016, the “True Cons” ruled the roost in Conservatism, Inc., but this older faction of gatekeeping moderate suburban Republicans who supported John McCain and Mitt Romney has been obliterated in the Trump era. These Republican establishment voters have shifted out of the Republican coalition and have been reduced to about 10% of the party. Generational change has rapidly accelerated over the past decade. A whole generation of young conservatives grew up on sites like 4chan. Con Inc. simply had no choice but to accommodate them and the result is that “conservatism” is far more flexible than it used to be. Everything the old Alt-Right stood for including even “antisemitism” is now represented to some degree. Tucker and Candace Owens and other powerful influencers are highly critical of Israel.
Want to restrict immigration like VDARE? It is now the beating heart of Trumpism.
Want to wreck the global trading system to protect American workers? Trump is doing it right now.
Want to put an end to disastrous foreign wars? The wars in Gaza and Lebanon have been paused and Ukraine is nearly there.
Want to get rid of political correctness? Everyone agrees that is based.
Want to explicitly stick up for White people? The taboo on “racism” has evaporated and anti-Whiteism is being rolled back across the federal government.
Want to complain about black-on-White crime? The issue is no longer taboo
Want to do something the trannies? It is an 80/20 issue
Want to vent about the Jews? There are people who do that now for a living like Candace Owens
So, how should we respond to this?
What even is the movement in 2025?
My controversial view is that we should take the win and work within mainstream politics at the state and federal level to advance the issues that we have always cared out. We are no longer frozen out of politics. The vast majority of things that I have always believed are no longer really taboo. There is no longer any need to identify as some kind of bomb throwing, “revolutionary” fringe character. Instead, we should present as normal people and moderates with now popular and reasonable views. There is a lot that can be done on behalf of White people, the South and Christianity that is short of our most ambitious goals, but which is now acceptable and popular among the vast majority of the Right.
Warren strongly disagrees!
He is convinced that we need “National Socialism” now! That’s fine.
The problem is that “NS” suffers from all the flaws that I described in Loser Pilled. It is essentially an apolitical fandom centered on a defunct political movement from a foreign country which 5 generations of Americans have been trying for 80 years now to revive here no with no success. There is no leadership. There is no organization. There is no “party” to join. There is no money. There are no candidates running for any office in the country. There is not even a will to engage in political activity.
What then are people supposed to do, Warren?
Should they watch golden oldy documentaries about the Third Reich like old episodes of Star Trek?
Should they play the Witzigmann clown like Handsome Truth and Gypsy Crusader?
Should they post long esoteric essays about Savitri Devi or Nazi UFOs hiding under the ice in Antarctica?
Should they review the latest Hollywood movies?
Should they do goon marches through Springfield like Blood Tribe?
Should they “tell the truth” about World War II history like the Civil War buffs who memorize and master the minutiae of military battles like Gettysburg?
Should they wait for “The Collapse” and the Second Coming of Hitler like Christians who are waiting for the return of Christ?
Should they go the Atomwaffle route of illegal activity and attracting federal attention?
Should they write fantasy novels like Harold Covington?
Should they convince people “there is no political solution” like Devon Stack?
If I were to adopt the identity of a “Confederate” and dress up in the uniform of a Civil War general and go out and reenact Civil War battles on the weekends, as some SCV members like to do, it wouldn’t make me an actual “Confederate” or bring back the Confederacy. I would just be a Confederacy fan. Similarly, if you were to create a “party” called the National Socialist Movement, dress up like a German field marshal and issue yourself a membership card, it wouldn’t make you a “Nazi” or bring back the Third Reich.
“NS” has nothing but fans … and the fans don’t want to organize and engage in political activity … but the fans are angry with people like me and Keith for pointing out that nationalism is thriving without them. The fans are angry with me for saying they have adopted a loser mindset.
Don’t be mad at me. I’m not the one stopping you from doing anything to advance your own agenda in politics.
Note: As November reminded me in the comments, Arthur Jones at least engaged in political activity on his own initiative. He lost, but at least he had the confidence to try to do something. The biggest problem with “NS” is that it is inert because it is full of losers.
Wallace is a world-class navel-gazer.
Thank you
Trump simply got lucky with the Middle East situation, because Biden ended the war for him. Trump will show his true colors on Israel. He’s already cracking down on protests.
“The movement” is right-wing Twitter and trying to carve out a distinct distinct factional identity within it is kind of pointless.
The average content consumer on Twitter will just follow anyone’s tweets they like without caring whether they are WN, NRx, AF or whatever.
Another thing I have noticed about NS-type is their delusional self-importance. I’ve heard them claim nonsense like how Elon bought X specifically to keep people from getting radicalized by wignats on Telegram. They genuinely believe that the system is scared of them.
Striker in particular has a severe case of main character syndrome.
Funny thing about White Nationalists in America is their attempts to organize almost always fail along the fault lines of the ethnic, religious, and regional differences between White Americans that the White Nationalists themselves refuse to acknowledge and therefore are consistently blindsided by. Take NJP/TRS. It was founded by Northeastern Whites and only ever had any success recruiting in the Northeast and rust belt Midwest — and immediately fractured along those lines because Midwest Whites and Northeast Whites are different and have different ethnic, religious, and cultural backgrounds. Meanwhile, Southern Whites never had any interest in the NJP at all. The only Southern White in the NJP/TRS sphere is McNabb, a Scots-Irish from Appalachia whose primary trait is he hates Scots-Irish from Appalachia.
I spent almost a decade posting on online forums before I ventured out IRL to try to do anything. My experience on WN forums was that WNs spent all of their time getting into endless arguments about their cultural differences.
You state: “White Nationalists want a “White ethnostate” which is an abstraction that exists only in their own minds. It is not a nation or a place. It does not command the allegiance of White Americans who are patriotic Americans.”
This makes it sound like you are going to settle for a hell of a lot less than Whites need to survive and remain healthy long-term. You might be pleased with American gradually becoming Mexico, with added distributed Negroes throughout society but perhaps National Socialists believe we need to get to a future beyond that level.
All I see is a man justifying selling out for smaller than required gains.
Sorry, I thought this through years ago, which is the reason why I shifted focus from White Nationalism to Southern Nationalism around 2011. The South is at least a place with a common culture, a distinct identity and a history of separatism
A “White ethnostate” is not a place. It is an abstract proposal. The best that WNs could come up with was HAC who alone had a plan to try to do something like this and no one listened to him and moved to the Northwest
There is no ‘movement.
Show me one group that can muster 10,000 active members ? Out of a nation of 350 million, pathetic!
We are a few people of like minded sympathies trying to figure a way to fix this synthetic dystopia.
(‘Cantankerous and contrarian’ hahaha 🙂
If anything HW is one of the most tolerant and hospitable moderators on the web.)
There’s been a lot of progress but there’s still a long way to go. Support for relationships between black men and white women is still near universal among white youths. We still need an explicit white nationalist movement.
This is a good point
There is plenty of true vanguard work to be done and restigmatizing miscegenation is my top example of what activists should focus on who want to be edgy.
You are taking heat as a ‘sell out’ because you want to work within the system to advance the causes you care about. Warren makes your point perfectly: “I’d rather stand with the losers than crawl on my belly before the likes of Trump and Musk”. Far too many people concern themselves with personalities rather than policies and ignore the aphorism that the perfect is the enemy of good. They will always be on the losing side, because deep down that’s where they are happiest – “I’d rather..”. You see this in some politicians too. Some are destined to in opposition forever, it’s their comfort zone.
So folks like Warren don’t engage with politics. Fine, then be a revolutionary. But real revolutionaries don’t tweet their impotent frustrations, they work hard to build revolutionary movements – or more often get arrested and locked up for sedition, or shot. I have respect for such people, at least they tried to bring about change.
I was with you before the election in trying to persuade the politically disengaged to vote for Trump. I can’t stand Trump, but I respect what he has achieved. As the alternative was more woke Bolshevism it was just a no-brainer. Voting is not a popularity contest, it’s a process of choosing the lesser of two evils. Trump is an arch Zionist and yet he is disruptive enough to represent the best chance in decades of fixing some of what is broken in America – and it’s a real long list.
For a generation, we were frozen out of politics, but now that seems to be changing. There is nothing that Pat Buchanan said that is controversial anymore. I see explicit “proud to be White” stuff all the time now. The culture has changed and we should test the waters again and reenter politics