Myth and Self-Interest

My ponderous English friend GuessedWorker of Majority Rights has weighed in on Michael O’Meara’s prize winning essay on White Nationalism and my response to it. He inclines toward the view that a materialist account of ethnic genetic interests will prove more persuasive than seductive mythic appeals in any future White racial rejuvenation in North America.

GuessedWorker has spent many years now searching for a philosophy to justify British nationalism. He sees liberalism as something of an ideological straitjacket (a view I happen to share) wrapped around the English mind. Like JW Holiday, who now seems to have disappeared from the blogosphere, GuessedWorker sees in Salterism a potent vehicle to wreck this mental logjam.

In his account of the American West, GuessedWorker sees rational self-interest as being fundamentally operative, not some myth or highly altruistic national purpose; settlers moved West for their own selfish reasons, namely cheap land and freedom from government interference. He doesn’t touch upon the views of American policymakers whose influence was historically decisive.

Thomas Jefferson was undoubtedly the most important. He dreamed of an “empire of liberty” in Transappalachia and the Louisiana Territory. As president, Jefferson’s mythic vision of the sturdy Anglo-Saxon republican yeomary played a decisive role in his acquisition of Louisiana from France. He spoke glowingly of the destiny of Anglo-Americans to spill over and control the North American continent.

In The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America, Eric P. Kaufmann wrote extensively about the Anglo-American myth complex, its origins and duration, the depth of its penetration into the American psyche, its power and appeal, decline and eventual eclipse in the 1930s by the cosmopolitan mythos of the Jewish New York Modernists. Reginald Horsman covered the topic in even greater detail in Race and Manifest Destiny: The Origins of American Racial Anglo-Saxonism. A strong argument can be made that American racial decline tracks exactly the decline of the indigenous Anglo-American mythos.

Generations of Southerners were raised on the myth of the Lost Cause. Southern nationalism emerged after the War Between the States when the heroism and wartime sacrifice of Confederate soldiers and the bitter memories of Reconstruction became an object of mythmaking. From Texas to Virginia, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy raised stone monuments in town squares to honor the fallen dead. It is difficult to find a small town in the South without some form of Civil War memorial. The mythology of the Lost Cause was closely intertwined with Southern identity and the white supremacist ideology of the Jim Crow South.

In the early twentieth century, the myth of the Ku Klux Klan as presented in D.W. Griffith’s The Birth of a Nation sparked the revival of the defunct organization. As I wrote in the previous thread, the Second Klan swelled to millions of members in the 1920’s. It was easily the largest American nativist organization of its time. There can be no doubt about the power of myth to inflame the popular imagination. The arresting image of the Confederate dead rising phenix-like from the ashes to defend Southern womanhood had a powerful appeal to Anglo-Protestant nationalists in the Midwest who sought to preserve American purity from the corrupting influence of European immigrants.

When Americans look back at the Antebellum South, even today they do so through the prism of Gone With The Wind, one of the most popular novels and films of all time. In the 1850’s, Harriet Beecher Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin went on to become the best selling novel of the nineteenth century. It colored Northern attitudes towards the Old South for over a hundred years. More recently, the Roots series of 1970s is shown in almost every high school classroom when the subject of slavery is being discussed.

Our enemies have their own myths. In the U.S., the progressive movement is driven less by facts and figures than by a vague notion of racial transcendence. The myth of the colorblind society as articulated by MLK in his I Have a Dream speech is at the heart of the anti-racist status quo. It has its own martyrs like Emmett Till, Rosa Parks, James Meredith, Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner; its own demons like Bull Conner, George Wallace, and the Klan. The election of Barack Obama as President of the United States is the culmination of the myth of the Civil Rights Movement. From the beginning, the symbolism of the Obama campaign was the story, not his plan for, say, health care reform.

There will always be men who are driven by data points. At the same time, there will always be far more who are driven by art and drama. The common man wants to see and hear about good vs. evil, justice vs. injustice, heroes vs. villains. He doesn’t have the patience or the inclination to grasp complex topics like evolutionary fitness or ethnic genetic interest.

Something more is obviously needed. The academics who spend the most time rehearsing and arguing about racial data points rarely become white separatists. Charles Murray wrote The Bell Curve and Human Accomplishment, but married and reproduced outside his race. Steve Sailer has argued against White Nationalism. Jared Taylor hasn’t endorsed anything beyond repealing the civil rights laws and ending third world immigration. At least from my perspective, the race realism movement has been a disappointment.

In the U.S., publically embracing White Nationalism often entails career and marital sacrifices. When it is done, racial altruism overrides the narrow pursuit of self-interest. It is much easier to start and raise a family (to maximize one’s EGI) if you go along with the status quo. An incredibly appealing myth is usually needed to overpower the actualization of normal human desires; to inspire someone to go above and beyond his own self interest in pursuit of a collective goal.

In the early twentieth century, there was no conflict between myth and self interest. The new racial science (Darwinism and Mendelian genetics) complemented the mythic-inspired nativist movement. Both will undoubtedly be needed for White Nationalism to ever triumph in North America.

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43 Comments

  1. “In the U.S., publically embracing White Nationalism often entails career and marital sacrifices. When it is done, racial altruism overrides the narrow pursuit of self-interest.”

    The baby step to take is obviously something less than a full blown, all out White Nationalism. We characterize the baby step as the actualization of a defensive white political identity which can be generated by devices like these.

    1. Vigorously criticize and condemn supremacist and bigoted comments against the various white American peoples, whether based on continent-of-origin, region, national origin, education, wealth, etc.

    2. Scour textbooks for vicious hate caricatures expressed against the diverse white American peoples and file loud complaints of a public nature alleging that these damage young white children by demonizing them. (They also lead non-white kids astray, but we are not in the triangulating business here.)

    3. File major, noisy complaints against municipal governments that provide no special services to combat the social afflictions with which diverse white youngsters are over-represented: meth addition, binge drinking, and tobacco use. This is a wide open field — there is no city in the USA which provides special services to rescue young white kids from social ills in which they are over-represented.

    The outcome of this kind of social noise may not be approvals of programs to make these things happen, but it will be a way to uphold the idea of the diverse white American peoples having a particular, demographic-based set of interests.

    Most Euro-Americans just do not know how to talk about themselves, and these three tactics work very well, and are easy to do in the face of the dominant media culture and the corporate entertainment culture, governed as it is by the coastal-urban class.

  2. Once again the brilliant writer of this blog hits the nail on the head! The WN movement has been stuck on facts and genetics for decades and it has gotten us nowhere. As Benjamin Disraeli said, “…imagination governs mankind.” Its time for the older leaders of this movement to admit thier failings and move on to working tactics. Yes indeed as much as we all hate Leftists they know exactly what the hell they’re doing by spinning myths and stories about the rightousness of thier cause, so why the hell aren’t we doing the same thing. As Prozium points out our Founding Fathers like Jefferson knew this so why don’t we who fight in thier name??? It’s time to start listening to what Disraeli said.

  3. I can’t think of any artists in America, or anywhere else, who have embraced or embody White Nationalism. The arts in the West are completely Left wing and have been since before I was born. There’s a tiny Traditionalist music and art scene in Europe mining old fascist tropes for a new symbology. But you have to go looking for that to find it. Black Metal music is steeped in Satanism and pagan Nordicism, but not particularly racially self-aware, otherwise. Skinhead music as a delivery system for WN ideas/myths isn’t going anywhere. The visual arts, from urban art to what makes it into the museums is completely bereft of any new messages other than those of art for art’s sake, anti-White identity politics and multiculturalism. As a practicing artist I feel isolated from others in my profession and as though I’m playing a dangerous cat and mouse game with the authorities and an unseen enemy whenever I express my true feelings about 20th century history and race. There seems to be no contemporary nationalist culture currently being created by and for thinking White people.

  4. Maybe it’s just my natural optimism and idealism at 25 whodareswings but it’s up to us to get the ball rolling on creating such a culture!

  5. HBDbooks.com had excepts from Tom Wolfe’s books and sections of it are unPC to say the least. Of course A Man in Full is over 500 pages and no one has bothered to question Wolfe on it. We need someone to write a novel which is pro-white and compact. A novel could be emotionally persuasive but also lucid in our demands, unlike music.

  6. There are other issues beyond self-interest as motivators. For example, French and Swedish police departments have stop collecting crime data(particularly rape data) by ethnicity because it might cause Europeans to look unfavorably at minorities. This is obscene. It should be made clear that whites are not choosing between race continuum and a raceless utopia. If we sit here haplessly people will take advantage of us.

  7. Well, The Bonfire Of The Vanities was un-PC as hell, really. Hollywood castrated the movie. But the book was good … the search for the Great White Defendant … Reverend Bacon … Mohammed 92X …. Judge Krivitsky … good stuff there.

  8. O, and ere I forget, Mau-Mauing The Flak Catchers foreshadowed the Obama regime. Barry-O is just a grown up Mau-Mau ….

  9. Myths and romanticism are important, but more so than that the left and Jews have used moral superiority and shame to conquer us.

    Considering Jews and leftists control the media, and use slavery and the Holocaust to cement their moral superiority, I don’t see how racialists will ever convince the masses that they are morally superior. Race realists concentrate on facts for a reason, that seems to be our best argument.

  10. “This idea that there is something inherent in our European character that causes our people to act against their own interests or to hate themselves is a vicious lie.

    “European societies have existed for thousands of years without any sort of leftist or self-destructive tendencies. The development of these tendencies go hand in hand with one thing: the emancipation of jews and their entry into European society during the past two centuries.

    “Jewish interests and jewish influence are the basis of leftism, nothing else! To say otherwise is an insult and direct attack upon Europeans everywhere!

    “It is a deliberate lie aimed to mislead and confuse us and exonerate our enemies, or else a ploy by hacks to protect their own asses.

    “Anyone who protects our enemies must be treated like an enemy!”

    “Who Are These Jokers Kidding?”
    ~ Richard Hartmann

    http://www.heretical.com/miscella/fredtv.html

  11. “Cheered by some, while others remain silent out fear of ostracism, fear of being politically incorrect, and in much of Europe fear of being locked up. Yes, leftism is white self-hatred.

    “But for the vast majority of jews who are leftists, and who make up the leadership of leftism, it is not self-hatred, but white hatred.

    “White self-hatred is induced by these jewish leftists, their media influence, their intellectual and cultural influence. The whole jewish-leftist intellectual atmosphere on college campuses and the corresponding propaganda of the media is a jewish program, a jewish campaign aimed at advancing jewish interests and securing jewish power, by destroying potential sources of resistance to jewish pre-eminence.

    “Only by destroying the self-confidence and self-image and identity of whites and suppressing nationalism everywhere can jews hope to retain their dominance over the culture and politics of western societies. Jewish leftists are not ‘ideological,’ they’re merely pursuing their own interests.

    “At the same time that they’re ‘leftists’ they’re also Zionists and supporters of the state of Israel and its policies. While 80-90% of American-resident jews vote for the Democrats, 90% of them are also pro-Israel.

    “They’re only ‘leftists’ when it comes to harming us, when promoting policies that harm us. In Israel they support ethnic cleansing, ethnic exclusivism, expansion and military conquest. Here they promote multiculturalism, white guilt, universal tolerance and political correctness.

    “It is perfectly consistent: among themselves they promote what serves their group, among us they promote what serves their group by harming our group.

    “There is no contradiction when you understand the basis of their activity. Leftism is simply jewish politics in a gentile society; jewish intellectuals, jewish money, jewish organizers, jewish propagandists, advancing jewish group interests by rendering harmless potential sources of resistance to themselves: nationalism, racial identity, cultural cohesion, religious identity, etc.

    “Leftism is the jewish program for subduing a nation and bringing themselves to power in it; destroying the nation’s pride and self-confidence and cohesiveness, and thus creating conditions in which jewish power can thrive unopposed.

    “Seriously, how is it that in a country that is 90% Christian, public displays of Christianity are practically illegal? It is the jews alone who wanted this, for fear of the potentially antiSemitic consequences of a strong Christian identity in the population and the effect such might have on their status and position. And at 2% of the population they’re able to do it, they have the power.

    “It is no different where race is concerned. Racial identity is as much a threat to the jewish dominance of western societies as religious identity;

    …any identity, any cohesion among our people is a danger to jewish power over us. …

    “It is jews alone who have had the motive and the ability to suppress nationalism throughout the western world for the past half century, jews alone who have blocked the advance of right wing and nationalistic political movements; through censorship, through distortion, through ridicule and demonization, through financial and media pressure; jews alone have had the motive and the ability to suppress nationalistic feeling and political activity in the white world.

    “And what they’ve done to us is precisely what they want to do to the Muslim world, and for this reason want to use American military might to subdue the Muslim world and open it up to jewish influence. How long before Hollywood movies and jewish television programs come to dominate the culture of the new Iraq?

    “How long before Judeo-Islam is proclaimed, and Sunni preachers are bewailing the historical guilt of the Muslim peoples for their intolerance and anti-Semitism? Well, that is how the jews would have it.

    “That is what they’re aiming for. It isn’t just about Israeli security, it is about total jewish control.”
    http://www.heretical.com/miscella/fredtv.html

  12. The excerpts in comment #9 above by Kulak are 95% correct. I clicked on the link: they’re are taken from a rebuttal to Fred Reed and Paul Gottfried by someone signing as Richard Hartmann, August 30, 2004. I don’t have time right now to go back and read the whole Hartmann rebuttal. I’ve just bookmarked it for reading later, and also copied that entire Heretical.com page, the whole thing top to bottom, into my own computer as a Microsoft Word document (comes to 22 pages long) in case it gets erased or something (who knows how much longer the Heretical.com archives will be online?). Until I know what’s in there and how important it is, I’ll at least have it safe and sound.

    The Richard Hartmann excerpts posted by Kulak replace all of Prof. Gottfried’s, Sam Francis’s, Lawrence Auster’s, James Kalb’s, Guessedworker’s, Prozium’s, and lately Friedrich Braun’s philosophizing or attempts at philosophizing on the subject of why this is happening. Those excerpts lay out in plain, exact language exactly why it’s happening.

    Who is Richard Hartmann?

    Fred Reed is of course a race-replacement advocate. Why anyone on our side looks up to him I can’t fathom.

  13. By the way, I find those, such as MR.com commenter Ben Tillman, who argue that Jews are more than the percentage everyone says of the population, persuasive: I think they’re something like double the official percentage, or higher. I’d say there must be about ten or twelve million Jews in this country. Now, even accepting that figure, the usual line goes, “But how can 2½%-3% of the population (my figure: something like 5%-6%) control the country?” The way to look at it is What percentage of the élites who control the country are Jews? (not What percentage of the population are Jews?). The figure is around 60%. Then ask what the comparative levels of innate ethnocentrism are among the various élites running things? Among Jews it’s many times higher than among Eurochristians. Finally, ask which group among the élites running things is essentially “born on a war footing,” virtually comes out of the womb already with the understanding and the instinct that it’s born into a two-thousand-year-old tribal war against gentiles in general and Euro-race ones in particular and hits the ground running as a loyal soldier in that hereditary war? (Anyone here doesn’t think Jews like Richard Lewontin, Steven Jay Gould, Franz Boaz, Ashley Montagu, Rahm Israel Emanuel, David Axelrod, Chuck Schumer, and, almost, you-name-it, weren’t born and raised with that mentality? Think again.)

    Now do your comparison. Don’t say, “How can 2% get their own way on the six or eight things they consider are non-negotiable — aid to Israel, open borders for the goys, no prayer in schools, no Christmas displays in public, affirmative action for all races with the potential of bringing down the Eurogoys, etc?” Ask how can an élite class dominated by the Jews who make it up to the tune of about 60% and having the characteristics just spelled out, can get its own way on these six or eight things it considers highly desirable for itself?

  14. “There will always be men who are driven by data points. At the same time, there will always be far more who are driven by art and drama.” I do not understand why GW does not give this obvious fact its proper weight, and hence fails to move any spirit to action.

  15. With all due respect to Guessedworker — and there’s no one in this whom I respect and admire more — his search for “a new philosophy on which to permanently base our position” is quixotic. What’s being done to us is not being done on the basis of any new philosophy and won’t be undone on the basis of any new philosophy. It’s being done very simply because certain people and especially certain groups want it, and it will be undone when other groups who don’t want it act.

  16. “But how can 2½%-3% of the population (my figure: something like 5%-6%) control the country?” The way to look at it is What percentage of the élites who control the country are Jews? (not What percentage of the population are Jews?).”

    Exactly. Also you have to factor in the percentage of non-Jew elites, wittingly or unwittingly, side in with the Jewish agenda. I figure 98% do, hence, an almost unanimous consensus on race-replacement policies for Euro-Christians. Non-Jewish neoconservative elites such as Bush and Cheney and McCain are a prime examples.

  17. Hats off to Prozium, and his illuminating comments for the WN cause.

    European intellectuals – even the British – seem so tone deaf when it comes to any deep understanding the United States. Perhaps it comes from a pan-European sense of cultural superiority, as an older sibling would view the younger. Or perhaps it stems from a resentment of US power (rightly so). Whatever it is, its been a long time since I’ve heard or read any European intellectual commentary – left or right – that makes any sense, if its primary topic is America.
    Our closest intellectual and spiritual brethern in ‘Europe’, are probably the Irish, doesn’t it seem? A land of poets and storytellers. A land where nationalism, cultural self-determination, has been inflamed and tested for centuries. Maybe this is why the Irish have their deserved literary reputation, as mythmaking and the power of story were found to be necessary to continue a long nationalistic struggle.

    I don’t think there’s much need to worry about a derailing of the WN cause due to intellectual disagreements that fall along some European-American fault line. On the other hand, European white nationalist analysis of particularly European problems should be paid attention to (such as the Muslim invasion) as there cannot help but be some overlap with our kinsmen in the common struggle to regain white homelands and control of white culture.

  18. “Non-Jewish neoconservative elites such as Bush and Cheney and McCain are a prime examples.”

    Right and you can’t separate Jewish influence from the fact that Bush and Cheney became candidates for high office in the first place. A moment’s vetting by Jewish political scouts fifteen years ahead of time (the same kind of Jewish political future-candidate-scouting network that located, took under its wing, and groomed Barack Obama from the moment he graduated from law school) could determine that W Bush was no friend of closed-border types and malleable enough on other subjects to be palatable as a candidate, so he was given the go-ahead in, shall we say, “certain quarters.” It’s no coincidence that he “became a candidate.”

  19. My point being, to an extent it’s all really one process, not “two distinct processes that happen to mesh on certain topics and you have to explain the meshing.”

    One process.

    It’s as Richard Hartmann (whoever he is) said in those excerpts of Kulak’s.

  20. “Considering Jews and leftists control the media…I don’t see how racialists will ever convince the masses that they are morally superior. Race realists concentrate on facts for a reason, that seems to be our best argument.”

    Problem is, White Americans don’t necessarily want facts. They (we) want fantasy and fairy tales. No one is going to be moved to act, to take up arms (which, let’s be honest here, is where all of this is headed), by reading a monograph on sociobiology or the latest Census Bureau data. It doesn’t stir the heart or spark the imagination. In order to do this, I think, we need to give our fellow Whites a jolt, a shock. We need to make them think and inspire them.

    In the last year I have been wearing WN t-shirts to the gym and whilst running errands. One of my favourite shirts says “VIVA LA RAZA BLANCA!” and I have been stopped several times by white guys agreeing with the slogan who want to start up a conversation with me. Just the other day at Starbuck’s I was approached by an elderly white man who pointed at my shirt and said: “They’ll call you a racist!”

    I replied: “Let them. I don’t care.”

    He laughed, told me he agreed with me, and started recounting his experiences with local blacks back in the 1960s and 1970s. “They always told us that ‘Black is Beautiful,’ but they aren’t, you know.” A petty example, I know, but I think incidents like this serve to get Whites thinking, bring people together, and embolden others to act.

    Facts, figures, equations, tables–these are all well and good, but in the end people go to war for their own. Statistical analysis, while useful, is not worth fighting and dying for. The White American Republic is.

  21. “The excerpts in comment #9 above by Kulak” ( — my comment above, #12)

    Kulak’s comment was #9 this morning; it’s now jumped to #11.

  22. There are myths, or myth-germs, that I encounter over and over as White Nationalists (and even some Race Realists) articulate their views. I will list them in descending order of popularity.

    1. The Collapse: things will get really, really bad; the Organs that repress us will be weakened or swept away; and then we can sort things out. This is a consoling myth, because no matter how bad things get, we can always say “The more mischief the merrier!” or “Burn, baby, burn!”
    2. Tolkein’s The Lord of the Rings (the movies even more than the books)
    3. The Indo-European Traditional cyclical view of history, according to which history begins with a Golden Age, then declines through Silver and Bronze Ages, culminating in a Dark Age, which ends with some sort of collapse, after which a new Golden Age commences. The power of this myth is that it assures us that our day will come. The detriment is that it leads some to think that nothing need be done, that history will do our work for us. This myth makes sense to believers in the Collapse, and indeed is the more sophisticated version of the same.
    4. The Indo-European warrior/duty ethic: this is the corrective to the tendency of myth #3 to counsel passivity. According to this myth, one should act based on duty, not one’s calculation of the outcomes. Just because resistance to the Dark Age in the name of Golden Age values is anachronistic and therefore futile does not absolve one of one’s duty. Besides, one never knows when the wheel will finally turn and one’s efforts will suddenly mesh with the the times. Michael O’Meara makes use of this myth and myths #1 and #3 in his prize essay “Toward the White Republic.”
    5. The Third Reich is the “Lost Cause” myth of a significant segment of modern White Nationalism. Vico, Hoelderlin, Nietzsche, and Heidegger all held versions of the cyclical view of history, and held that a new time cycle would begin with the arrival of new gods. Jung saw Hitler and National Socialism as a return of Odin and his wild band. Heinrich Heine prophesied that some day Thor would rise again in Germany and smash the Gothic cathedrals with his hammer. Clearly Hitler and his followers have become the stuff of myth. Of course for the most part they are the stuff of the establishment’s demonology. But history shows that as religions replace one another, old gods become new demons, so why not the reverse?
    6. There is a tiny minority who already believe this: the followers of Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano, who regard Hitler as a divine Avatar and who have built/are building an “esoteric Hitlerist” religion around him. Of course this seems quixotic and bizarre in the extreme. But the Jesus cult probably seemed that way too in the decades following the Crucifixion.
    7. Harold Covington has taken up the Northwest Migration idea of Pastor Butler and others and fashioned four splendid novels around it. O’Meara’s “White Republic” is clearly has been influenced by the Northwest Quartet, as he gave the first three novels a very positive review a few years ago at VNN.
    8. The Lost Cause, Reconstruction, and The Birth of a Nation: these are the myths with the deepest roots in a significant portion of the US and the greatest proven record of success. The KKK revival heralded by Birth was massive and not entirely confined to the South. I would love to publish an essay on this in The Occidental Quarterly. Please contact me if you know someone who can write it.

    Myth is a product of human genius, and genius can neither be engineered nor predicted. So what does that leave us non-geniuses to do in the meantime? There are two things that I am doing through TOQ and TOQ Online
    1. First, fostering an alternative community — a real, face-to-face community — which is the setting in which deeds and myths can emerge. I am doing this by having regional TOQ Editor’s Dinners for subscribers, writers, and friends of the journal.
    2. We can put ourselves in touch with the great exemplary geniuses of our race and derive inspiration from them. I am doing this on TOQ Online by publishing articles on or by such great writers as Evola, Hamsun, Wyndham Lewis, Marinetti, D. H. Lawrence, Melville, etc.

  23. “The Richard Hartmann excerpts posted by Kulak replace all of Prof. Gottfried’s, Sam Francis’s, Lawrence Auster’s, James Kalb’s, Guessedworker’s, Prozium’s, and lately Friedrich Braun’s philosophizing or attempts at philosophizing on the subject of why this is happening. Those excerpts lay out in plain, exact language exactly why it’s happening.”

    Thanks Fred, glad you appreciate the full depth of the comments.

    Obvious SO MANY HERE EVEN ON THIS BOARD DO NOT!!!

    Hence, KULAKS INDEED NEVER LEARN!!!

  24. Good post, Prozium.

    Like JW Holiday, who now seems to have disappeared from the blogosphere

    I think JWH could be turned up with a little digging. I’d suggest starting by examining the sidebar of The Occidental Quarterly Online.

    Good response by Greg Johnson as well.

    2. Tolkein’s The Lord of the Rings (the movies even more than the books)

    Yes.

    According to this myth, one should act based on duty, not one’s calculation of the outcomes. Just because resistance to the Dark Age in the name of Golden Age values is anachronistic and therefore futile does not absolve one of one’s duty.

    Yes, I find Spengler’s story of the Roman soldier who died at Vesuvius to be an inspiring myth of this type.

    1. First, fostering an alternative community — a real, face-to-face community — which is the setting in which deeds and myths can emerge. I am doing this by having regional TOQ Editor’s Dinners for subscribers, writers, and friends of the journal.

    When do I get invited to one of these?

  25. I would be interested in reading more analysis concerning the myth of Collapse, which Greg Johnson listed as the most popular myth-germ amongst online White Nationalist circles.

    From time to time, on this blog and others, I have lent my small voice in favor of the idea that our modern liberal world is headed for an inevitable collapse of some sort or other. The evidence that such a moment will come is all around us in the form of post-colonial Africa, urban America, and others. The modern liberal structure has proven to be just as destructive as it is parasitic, unleashing powerful forces of sociological chaos that can replace great cities and cultures with ruins and shanty towns. Is it so hard to imagine that the same forces which wrecked the mighty cities of the American Midwest won’t eventually bring down a great Western nation altogether? And if this were to happen, what then of the liberal cosmos?

    For that matter, one doesn’t need to be an esotericist in order to appreciate the fact that all things come full circle and that mankind will eventually reap whatever it has sown.

  26. –“Fred Reed is of course a race-replacement advocate. Why anyone on our side looks up to him I can’t fathom.”–

    You ain’t kidden, Fred! Check out this latest snot-screed against “Hagvacas’ (House and garden variety Caucasians)” disguised as ‘humor’ by the ‘conservative’ (h)activist and long-time resident-alien of Mexico Reed:

    ==
    “In fact they are so bad that other groups have had to condescend to them. Blacks for example have usually regarded Hagvacas as disguised elevators, and written music for them that they wouldn’t inflict on living people.”

    […]

    “Small-town Hagvacas have great respect for education, but no interest in it. (This is why the schools have deteriorated; the Chinese, Jews, or Koreans would never have let it happen.) They were the prey of the encyclopedia salesman. A set of the Britannica in the living room, or even the Great Books (never read) showed that they were lettered people, and they prided themselves on looking things up occasionally. Very common were what I think of as Museum Rooms, usually the living room: unpleasantly clean, nicely but tediously furnished, and never used. It was to impress the bridge club.”

    […]

    “But they didn’t dance, never read anything wilder than Reader’s Digest Condensed Books, didn’t care for music, and generally made Mormon missionaries look like party animals.”

    […]

    (And, best of all…)

    “It’s not fixable. A friend of mine said of blacks, “They burn at a higher emotional temperature than we do.” Latins too, in spades (so to speak). Middle-class Prots? They are wild as potted plants. There isn’t enough cocaine to change them.

    “A bit of guy wisdom used to be to get a Republican to run your bank, but date Democratic girls. Yep. Today America looks like Sweden ruling over Rio during Carnival. Same principle, somehow. You’ll excuse me. I have a date with Padre Kino and Lola Beltran, channeled through good speakers.”
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Hagvacas.shtml
    ==

    Hmmmm…?

    “Only by destroying the self-confidence and self-image and identity of whites and suppressing nationalism everywhere can jews hope to retain their dominance over the culture and politics of western societies. Jewish leftists are not ‘ideological,’ they’re merely pursuing their own interests.”
    http://www.heretical.com/miscella/fredtv.html

    (What a self-hating {A}pproval {S}eeking {S}upplicant, poor excuse for a “White” “man”, and a CONservative, no less, by the Mestizo-lovin’ jackal Fred ‘the weed’ Reed !!!)

  27. I corrected a couple of typos and the obvious error of putting the myths connected with the American South at the bottom of a list that descends in order of popularity!

    There are myths, or myth-germs, that I encounter over and over as White Nationalists (and even some Race Realists) articulate their views. I will list them in descending order of popularity.

    1. The Collapse: things will get really, really bad; the Organs that repress us will be weakened or swept away; and then we can sort things out. This is a consoling myth, because no matter how bad things get, we can always say “The more mischief the merrier!” or “Burn, baby, burn!”

    2. Tolkein’s The Lord of the Rings (the movies even more than the books)

    3. The Indo-European Traditional cyclical view of history, according to which history begins with a Golden Age, then declines through Silver and Bronze Ages, culminating in a Dark Age, which ends with some sort of collapse, after which a new Golden Age commences. The power of this myth is that it assures us that our day will come. The detriment is that it leads some to think that nothing need be done, that history will do our work for us. This myth makes sense to believers in the Collapse, and indeed is the more sophisticated version of the same.

    4. The Indo-European warrior/duty ethic: this is the corrective to the tendency of myth #3 to counsel passivity. According to this myth, one should act based on duty, not one’s calculation of the outcomes. Just because resistance to the Dark Age in the name of Golden Age values is anachronistic and therefore futile does not absolve one of one’s duty. Besides, one never knows when the wheel will finally turn and one’s efforts will suddenly mesh with the times. Michael O’Meara makes use of this myth and myths #1 and #3 in his prize essay “Toward the White Republic.”

    5. The Lost Cause, Reconstruction, and The Birth of a Nation: these are the myths with the deepest roots in a significant portion of the US and the greatest proven record of success. The KKK revival heralded by Birth was massive and not entirely confined to the South. I would love to publish an essay on this in The Occidental Quarterly. Please contact me if you know someone who can write it.

    6. The Third Reich is the “Lost Cause” myth of a significant segment of modern White Nationalism. Vico, Hoelderlin, Nietzsche, and Heidegger all held versions of the cyclical view of history, and held that a new time cycle would begin with the arrival of new gods or the return of old ones. Jung saw Hitler and National Socialism as a return of Odin and his wild band. Heinrich Heine prophesied that some day Thor would rise again in Germany and smash the Gothic cathedrals with his hammer. Clearly Hitler and his followers have become the stuff of myth. Of course for the most part they are the stuff of the establishment’s demonology. But history shows that as religions replace one another, old gods become new demons, so why not the reverse?

    7. There is a tiny minority who already believe this: the followers of Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano, who regard Hitler as a divine Avatar and who have built/are building an “esoteric Hitlerist” religion around him. Of course this seems quixotic and bizarre in the extreme. But the Jesus cult probably seemed that way too in the decades following the Crucifixion.

    8. Harold Covington has taken up the Northwest Migration idea of Pastor Butler and others and fashioned four splendid novels around it. O’Meara’s “White Republic” clearly has been influenced by the Northwest Quartet, as he gave the first three novels a very positive review a few years ago at VNN.

    Myth is a product of human genius, and genius can neither be engineered nor predicted. So what does that leave us non-geniuses to do in the meantime? There are two things that I am doing through TOQ and TOQ Online:

    1. We are seeking to foster an alternative community — a real, face-to-face community — which is the setting in which deeds and myths can emerge. I am doing this by having regional TOQ Editor’s Dinners for subscribers, writers, and friends of the journal.

    2. We can put ourselves in touch with the great exemplary geniuses of our race and derive inspiration from them. I am doing this on TOQ Online by publishing articles on or by such great writers as Evola, Hamsun, Wyndham Lewis, Marinetti, D. H. Lawrence, Melville, etc.

  28. I believe GW came as close to stating what he himself knows to be the truth as he ever will when he said German-American WNs hate the English, and by extension conservatism, meaning the English phenotype – which is more individualistic and less idealistic than its German counterpart. I suppose it must be extremely annoying for him to so adroitly smash the constructs of the Guardianistas, and then see Wintermute drive a Mack truck through his own. I, for one, do not, and cannot, hate the English. Not least because their blood is in me, and GW is the best man I know of. My gut tells me – and I tend to trust my instincts – triangulating against NS is the proper course, given the faithist investment of so many of our people in its alleged demonic qualities. Yet it does rankle, not least because I am of preponderantly Germanic ancestry, and I know it to be a lie.

    P.S. Dan Dare is a smart guy, plus he has the act down cold.

  29. “I believe GW came as close to stating what he himself knows to be the truth as he ever will when he said German-American WNs hate the English, and by extension conservatism, meaning the English phenotype – which is more individualistic and less idealistic than its German counterpart.”
    __

    Aw pleeeaaase, UTTER NONSENSE, PURE POPPYCOCK!!!!!

    German/ic WN’s, just like Germans historically (such as His Imperial Majesty Kaiser Wilhelm II and Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler), NEVER ‘hated’ the English, and in fact looked at them, right or wrong, as Germanic Kameraden, and Nordic bretheren.

    For Pete’s sake, Emperor Wilhelm was the first grandson of the “British” Queen Victoria, spoke fluent English, and was the first cousin of King George of England.

    Chancellor Hitler repeated himself endlessly that he never wished for war with a ‘bruder’ (brother) country like England, further stating that he felt the British Empire was a ‘bastion of stability’ in the world order, and said he would send German troops anywhere to help protect British interests.

    Of course, he warned that der Juden — and their Masonic puppets –would do everything they could to subvert Anglo-German friendship to undermine and destroy Northern European unity (as the Khazars SO SURELY DID).

  30. German-American WNs with a historically conditioned axe to grind, not Germans historically or per se. Hope that was clearly enough implied, if not, there it is.

  31. Perhaps instead of thinking in terms of “myths” (which rarely translate in to cold/hard reality and are often too inscrutable for the masses to fathom), we should think instead of “visions of the future” and/or “mythic vision(s)” as Prozium states in the sentence: “As president, Jefferson’s mythic vision of the sturdy Anglo-Saxon republican yeomary…”.

    There is a stark dividing line between mythical/fanciful unreality and the idealistic vision, highly rational thought/planning, and the extremely hard (often brutal) work that is needed to build a society/nation where White Westerners can thrive.

    In terms of the myth of the ‘White Republic,’ there are still several states within the USA where Whites are 90-95+% of the population – thus those states are already de-facto ‘White Republics’ in all but name even if they are still partially subject to the faraway rule of Jewish-dominated Washington DC. That being said, I much applaud O’Meara’s ideas and I’d really like to see them implemented within my lifetime, but in my opinion what is needed is something even more profound than the ‘White Republic,’ a highly idealistic and high-minded (yet still practical and doable) “vision of the future” that can activate or stir-up the collective unconscious of Whites worldwide to work much more cooperatively/collectively in an ethnic/racial sense before our nations and bloodlines become almost totally swamped by the teeming billions of non-Whites.

  32. Re:#31 – Notuswind: “I would be interested in reading more analysis concerning the myth of Collapse, which Greg Johnson listed as the most popular myth-germ amongst online White Nationalist circles.”

    Regarding the myth of collapse, we should put very pessimistic ideas such as those mostly out of our heads. Note that the myth of collapse is pushed mostly by Jews like Kunstler, Orlov, Heinberg, and other Jewish ‘Jeremiahs’ who are profiting from all of the White fear generated by their predictions – therefore, since that myth is mostly of Jewish origin, it should be rejected outright. A couple years ago I used to subscribe to some of those Jewish ideas regarding rapid and outright societal ‘collapse’ which are floating around various sites on the internet, but I’ve since recognized them for what they are which is (unconscious?) Jewish propaganda and scare-tactics meant to undermine White confidence levels at being able to hold together our own White nations.

    The only possibility of true collapse is an entirely unforeseen natural disaster like a supervolcano which erupts and blots out the sun for many years (causing mass-death of crops/livestock and thus people, etc), an Earth-shattering strike by an huge chunk of space rock, a worldwide pandemic or new ‘Black Death’ wherein 50+% of the world’s population is wiped out, and so forth. There is really no way to predict or prepare for catastrophic events such as those because they are entirely out of our control as a species.

    Collapses have occurred in recent times and it didn’t cause the whole world to end…we are a resilient species, and life will of course go on. The USSR ‘collapsed’ for instance, though all the Russians and Eastern Europeans of course didn’t die as a result of it. Same with National Socialist Germany…during the final years of WWII they were totally surrounded, starved, bombed in to dust, etc – yet despite all that after the war a (shrunken) Germany still emerged to become one of the strongest and best nations on Earth.

    This idea of a sudden, earth-shattering, and catastrophic social/economic/political collapse has no basis whatsoever in reality – it’s the product of over-fanciful, pessimistic imaginations and nothing more. The fact is that nations, societies, and peoples generally decline rather gradually and slowly (barring a revolution or another sudden unpredictable event as noted above). The USSR was rotten for decades before it finally dissolved; and many portions of the Jew-wrecked USA have been slowly rotting for quite a few years now and will soon have to deal with the consequences of that.

    The various side-effects of slow and gradual sociopolitical/economic ‘collapse’ is what is the most insidious for a people or nation. For instance, look at the public health crisis that is harshly afflicting large areas of formerly Communist Russia/Eastern Europe because the people there are having such trouble adjusting to post-Communist living conditions. Many men there are violent criminals and/or alcoholics who die very young, many women there no longer breed (the population is mostly in steep decline) and they seek to leave those countries for greener/safer pastures, the infrastructure is in disrepair, the economy is largely stagnant, and so on. Much of this is due to the fact that Jewish Marxism worked methodically in the early years of the USSR to wipe-out the best people living there so that only the ignorant and easily controlled would remain; Jewish Marxism, with its unnaturally forced leveling, sought to eradicate (via “de-kulakization”) the natural leaders and middle-class who used to live in those areas and as a result those areas have been left largely rudderless and/or ‘managed’ by a bunch of urban Jewish elites who are hostile to the surrounding native populace and only seek to exploit them. A sad state of affairs indeed.

    A similar situation of ‘slow collapse’ is now occurring in the USA: as the USA has begun to gradually decline and rot from within because of creeping Jewish Crypto-Marxism over the last few decades, you can easily see how so many of its individual citizens have declined as well. Americans are much less healthy, fatter, lazier, more isolated, more ignorant, more ‘obedient,’ and much more passive than they used to be before Jewish Crypto-Marxism gained ascendancy here. Under Jewish hegemon(e)y and Jewish mismanagement, the USA also continues to import many millions of inferior and entirely indigestible non-White immigrants.

    Some areas of the USA are already in a state of outright ‘collapse’ as you stated notuswind…just look around at all of the various urban ghettos, abandoned farms, outdated shopping-centers, shuttered factories, lonely suburbs, and so on. Look at the stress and strain and anxious worry on the faces of those White Americans who know in their gut that something is terribly awry here in modern America. We’ve been living with this for years, only now it seems to many Americans that the dissolution is accelerating.

    It is clear that the only people capable of reversing the course of the slow-motion collapse of the USA are American Whites who are organized along cooperationist/collectivist macro-racial lines. It’s up to us White Americans alone to step up and push the Jewish nation-wreckers/Black gangbangers/Hispanic ignorants/Asian parasites/etc out of our way and start to reclaim our nation and begin to rebuild it so that it can again become the proud White nation that it once was.

  33. “For Pete’s sake, Emperor Wilhelm was the first grandson of the “British” Queen Victoria, spoke fluent English, and was the first cousin of King George of England.”

    Captainchaos,

    This was the (unofficial) anthem of Imperial Germany and of Königreich Preußen — the Kingdom of Prussia. Listen to the tune, it is set to the same music as the British “God Save the King/Queen” and “America the Beautiful”:

    *Heil dir im Siegerkranz*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFwgUVyvkCU&feature=related

    LONG LIVE THE ANGLO-TEUTONIC, NORTHERN EUROPEAN PEOPLES

  34. “I would be interested in reading more analysis concerning the myth of Collapse, which Greg Johnson listed as the most popular myth-germ amongst online White Nationalist circles.”

    Start off by reading ‘Civil War 2: the coming breakup of America’ by Thomas W. Chittum. Then move on to ‘Camp of the Saints’ by Jean Raispail.

    A sort of collapse into a Balkanized Race War is quite likely in many areas of the United States. (look at the recent black vs. mestizo mega-prison riot in the multi-racial Babylon of contemporary California!)

  35. I agree with this post. We need to appeal to emotion, and White American heritage.

    I was out of internet access for about 6 and a half days, as an internet cable or something must have not been working. It’s refreshing to finally get to communicate with racially aware Whites again!

  36. [QUOTE]There are myths, or myth-germs, that I encounter over and over as White Nationalists (and even some Race Realists) articulate their views. I will list them in descending order of popularity.

    1. The Collapse: things will get really, really bad; the Organs that repress us will be weakened or swept away; and then we can sort things out. This is a consoling myth, because no matter how bad things get, we can always say “The more mischief the merrier!” or “Burn, baby, burn!”
    2. Tolkein’s The Lord of the Rings (the movies even more than the books)
    3. The Indo-European Traditional cyclical view of history, according to which history begins with a Golden Age, then declines through Silver and Bronze Ages, culminating in a Dark Age, which ends with some sort of collapse, after which a new Golden Age commences. The power of this myth is that it assures us that our day will come. The detriment is that it leads some to think that nothing need be done, that history will do our work for us. This myth makes sense to believers in the Collapse, and indeed is the more sophisticated version of the same.
    4. The Indo-European warrior/duty ethic: this is the corrective to the tendency of myth #3 to counsel passivity. According to this myth, one should act based on duty, not one’s calculation of the outcomes. Just because resistance to the Dark Age in the name of Golden Age values is anachronistic and therefore futile does not absolve one of one’s duty. Besides, one never knows when the wheel will finally turn and one’s efforts will suddenly mesh with the the times. Michael O’Meara makes use of this myth and myths #1 and #3 in his prize essay “Toward the White Republic.”
    5. The Third Reich is the “Lost Cause” myth of a significant segment of modern White Nationalism. Vico, Hoelderlin, Nietzsche, and Heidegger all held versions of the cyclical view of history, and held that a new time cycle would begin with the arrival of new gods. Jung saw Hitler and National Socialism as a return of Odin and his wild band. Heinrich Heine prophesied that some day Thor would rise again in Germany and smash the Gothic cathedrals with his hammer. Clearly Hitler and his followers have become the stuff of myth. Of course for the most part they are the stuff of the establishment’s demonology. But history shows that as religions replace one another, old gods become new demons, so why not the reverse?
    6. There is a tiny minority who already believe this: the followers of Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano, who regard Hitler as a divine Avatar and who have built/are building an “esoteric Hitlerist” religion around him. Of course this seems quixotic and bizarre in the extreme. But the Jesus cult probably seemed that way too in the decades following the Crucifixion.
    7. Harold Covington has taken up the Northwest Migration idea of Pastor Butler and others and fashioned four splendid novels around it. O’Meara’s “White Republic” is clearly has been influenced by the Northwest Quartet, as he gave the first three novels a very positive review a few years ago at VNN.
    8. The Lost Cause, Reconstruction, and The Birth of a Nation: these are the myths with the deepest roots in a significant portion of the US and the greatest proven record of success. The KKK revival heralded by Birth was massive and not entirely confined to the South. I would love to publish an essay on this in The Occidental Quarterly. Please contact me if you know someone who can write it.

    Myth is a product of human genius, and genius can neither be engineered nor predicted. So what does that leave us non-geniuses to do in the meantime? There are two things that I am doing through TOQ and TOQ Online
    1. First, fostering an alternative community — a real, face-to-face community — which is the setting in which deeds and myths can emerge. I am doing this by having regional TOQ Editor’s Dinners for subscribers, writers, and friends of the journal.
    2. We can put ourselves in touch with the great exemplary geniuses of our race and derive inspiration from them. I am doing this on TOQ Online by publishing articles on or by such great writers as Evola, Hamsun, Wyndham Lewis, Marinetti, D. H. Lawrence, Melville, etc.[/QUOTE]

    The grand Epic of Myth is, and will always be, a key-hole into the mind of man, especially the mind of European man; the various observations, and skillful attempts to ‘unlock’ these psychic manifestations is myriad…but what of it? What is the utilitarian purpose of all this?

    Modern White Nationalism has produced various incarnations in the realms of Intellect, Theory, and the exposition of same which is simply a reshashing of historical post mortems.

    Myth exists, make no mistake; but the ‘myths’ of White Nationalists include names like Gordon Kahl, John Singer, Robert J. Mathews, and David Lane, to mention only the most cursory, if not the most embraced of the new modern ‘myths’ of white people in America, yet they are rarely, and exhaustively portrayed to the general White Nationalist public by the ‘so-called’ intellectuals of the evolving White Nationalist momentum.

    Why is that?

    Instead of great minds ‘searching’ for the raison d’etre, one must needs but only take a look around, and smell the roses of what life has already given us in the creation of our own Myths. If the intellectuals here want to understand or promote a White Republic, or those Myths best suited to institute them, why don’t these intellectuals go out and Interview some the living representatives which, at one time, spoke and acted out those positions of a burgeoning White Nationalism.

    I hope that the sons of the fathers of yesteryear do not make the same mistake, and simply intellectually masturbate these issues, thereby denying a future for white children.

    Question:

    To what extent do individuals on this site credit the propaganda value of The Fourteen Words? White American Bastion? The Bruder Schweigen? as the essence of modern white nationalist ‘myth’?

    Or is this simply the crass momentum of the ‘unwashed masses’?

    Some of the writers are more than superlative, and have superbly elucidated many of our present issues, and have presented many avenues to conquer our fears, and get moving in the right direction – but in this case, I want to delve a little further into what, may become, the future brain-trust of our fledgling Nation.

    What say you?

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