Why Women Reject White Nationalism

Where are the women?

Alabama

Editor’s Note: I wrote this article over two years ago. I was considering writing a new article about the subject, but nothing ever changes in the White Nationalist movement, and everything that I said below is as true today as it was back then.

I bring this up now only because the issue has resurfaced. I’ve long since moved on from White Nationalism. I have also made my peace with the movement and honestly I have nothing further to say about it.

Lately, I have been hearing the same stories from racially conscious women about the White Nationalist movement – they value their race and are eager to participate and do their part to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” but they are alienated and disillusioned by some of the “wounded soldier” type rhetoric that they see at WN conferences and on the internet.

Before I am accused of picking a fight, I want to emphasize here lots of White Nationalists like James Edwards and Richard Spencer are happily married. I also couldn’t be happier with my own relationship. In spite of this, there is still a very loud group of these “wounded soldiers” out there – think of Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump – who have had bad experiences with American women in general, and it is a problem attracting and keeping women involved in the movement.

I bring this up because women are indispensable to any movement that seeks to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” and there are attractive young women who I know who are being repulsed by these types, and I would much rather see them end up with some of my bright racially conscious friends than with the losers they are meeting in bars.

Why aren’t more women involved with the White Nationalist movement?

There is a conversation going on about this in the comments. It is such an interesting topic that it warrants a separate thread. Everyone who has attended a White Nationalist conference has noticed that men are always drastically overrepresented.

Why is that?

Dealbreaker #1: Because they are offended by the people who rail against White women on account of their bad experiences with dating and marriage. They shouldn’t have dated women like that anyway, but take out their sexual frustrations on all women with untenable generalizations.

Dealbreaker #2: Because of the HBD cogelite nerds who glorify Asian women and who denigrate White women. This is one of the biggest pet peeves.

Dealbreaker #3: Because of the aura of negativity that surrounds the White Nationalist movement. Most women can’t stand a constant drumbeat of negativity and self consciously avoid demoralizing websites.

Women like to see confidence in men. When they see men who have no confidence in themselves and who preach an “all is lost” political message, they instinctively turn away from a movement that they perceive as a bunch of losers, especially when they encounter a hostile atmosphere on pro-White websites.

Dealbreaker #4: Because White Nationalism attracts a disproportionate number of geeky, socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome or who are creepy in some way as well as the homosexual misogynists who are on the warpath against women.

Dealbreaker #5: Because there is a lot of crossover between the Men’s Rights community and White Nationalism and this is a turn off to women who are culturally conservative and therefore more likely to be Christians.

Dealbreaker #6: Because the vast majority of women who qualify as “traditional” in America are strongly Christian or religious in some way. They are turned off to White Nationalism because of the atheism, misogyny, and lewd discussions about women on White Nationalist websites.

Anyone who goes to church knows that there are far more “traditional” women than men in America. Among women, it is fashionable in some circles to save yourself for marriage, whereas few men think that way these days. A respectable woman is not going to be dressed like a slut in some bar or club on the weekend.

Dealbreaker #7: Because women will always be less interested in politics than men. White Nationalism focuses heavily on politics and science and less on culture, family, and religion which are subjects which attract more conservative women.

Dealbreaker #8: Because women are more empathetic and are natural conciliators and thus mix like oil and water with the curmudgeons who are drastically overrepresented among White Nationalists.

Dealbreaker #9: Because some White Nationalists practice a type of effeminate political correctness and consciously go out of their way to elevate Asians and Muslims in particular over White Americans.

Feel free to take issue with any of the above positions. I have heard this view about White Nationalism from so many different women on so many different occasions that I am convinced it represents something of a consensus among traditional White women.

I wish someone would test this theory by creating a pro-White website with these dealbreakers in mind: exclude the HBD nerds who glorify Asian women, the negative curmudgeons, the “all is losters,” the creepy weirdos, the embittered misogynists, the effeminate homosexual intellectuals, and the Neo-Nazi atheists on a jihad against Christianity.

The website would need a good editor that would balance political discussion with a hefty complement of articles about culture, religion, and family. There would also have to be more talk about ethnicity and pocketbook issues.

I would bet money that would solve the problem. In fact, I predict that racially conscious women would start coming out of the woodwork because women are more social than men and would be attracted like moths to a flame to other women who share their views and who are potential friends.

It should be interesting to see what kind of feedback this post receives in the comments. I think I am onto something here.

Note: Richard Spencer addressed the same issue in a video at Trad Youth.

About Hunter Wallace 11905 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

50 Comments

  1. You can’t be a woman, Jen, no way. You’re certainly a dipshit and crazy though.

    Who the hell cares about Ramz Paul. Some guy who likes a lot of attention and looks and acts like Matthew Lesko.

    He openly declared his desire for Asian women and he hates White “supremists.” So you admire a Mongolophile. Don’t you look stupid.

    Yeah, he fits the profile, he’s goofy, frail, effeminate, he’s “beta” by game standards, and he likes Asian women. That’s your hero.

  2. Maria says…
    When they say they want more “outspoken” women, they usually mean automatons that’ll just parrot all of the “correct” lines.

    Like all of their effeminate male friends who already do that.

  3. “For the record, I was sharing my girlfriend’s perspective on the subject. She is always talking about why women are turned off to White Nationalism.

    Those are her reasons. ”

    Okay. But what reasons does she give for the 99.99998 % of women who have never heard of White Nationalism or know a single man who is racially aware?

    BTW, for the record, I do not believe the reasons given are accurate anyway, at least not in an actions vs words sense. I have known a great many men who fit the typical descriptions given. I can’t think of a single one who has gone without female companionship and the vying of females for his attraction. And usually it is the most attractive women, both physically AND personality wise.

    That is a fact. We all know it.

    But I am more interested in an answer to the question I asked.

  4. “But I am more interested in an answer to the question I asked.”

    But we already know the answer to that, too.

    This topic is like discussions that are a combination of reinventing the wheel and yet another proposal for a perpetual motion machine.

  5. “#4 ties in all of the other problems. Most of the males are inherently dysfunctional to begin with. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.”

    After I wrote my above comment and then read this I thought of Charlie Sheen.

  6. “Many men contradict themselves. They say why aren’t there more outspoken women (wanting women to be more masculine)”

    Come on, guy!

    Who in hell is saying that nowadays?! Do you also know “many” people who are asking why gas is not just a little more expensive since it is so cheap?

    Like I said, come on. Whatever can be said about modern women, they are NOT lacking in being outspoken for God’s sake. And going on 13 years now living in the South, I know this holds true there as well, contra some folks assertions otherwise.

    You are right when you speculate things must be different outside of your neighborhood!

  7. After I wrote my above comment and then read this I thought of Charlie Sheen.

    No way, Charlie Sheen is not dysfunctional in the social sense, he’s extremely high functioning considering all of his vices with drugs, alcohol and prostitutes yet he never missed a day of work, never showed up late and always gave a great performance without missing a line. Tiger blood, baby.

    He’s also a multimillionaire, that makes up for a lot of deficiencies.

  8. Like I said, come on. Whatever can be said about modern women, they are NOT lacking in being outspoken for God’s sake.

    You took my statement out of context. They’re not outspoken about racial interests/White nationalism, that is the topic of this thread and on some other websites recently.

    It’s almost not even worth commenting because so many people are either purposely deceptive or stupid, and misrepresent my statements, create straw men and/or go off on tangents.

  9. I have known a great many men who fit the typical descriptions given. I can’t think of a single one who has gone without female companionship and the vying of females for his attraction. And usually it is the most attractive women, both physically AND personality wise.

    That is a fact. We all know it.

    What we all know is so far you haven’t said a thing that has made any damn sense.

    You know a “great many men” that are “HBD cogelite nerds who glorify Asian women and who denigrate White women,” and “geeky, socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome or who are creepy in some way as well as the homosexual misogynists” who according to you are banging supermodels with great personalities.

    Charlie Sheen called he said he wants some of that crazy shit you’re smoking.

  10. Okay. But what reasons does she give for the 99.99998 % of women who have never heard of White Nationalism or know a single man who is racially aware?

    She would reply that she is talking exclusively about women who are exposed to White Nationalists on websites like Amren and Stormfront. Women are exposed to White Nationalism just as commonly as men, but it seems that men are much more readily converted to White Nationalism.

    I’ve had this conversation a million times now. The biggest turnoff is that the conversations that take place in an online setting, particularly in the comment section below articles, draw out all kinds of White Nationalists who have some kind of axe to grind against women who are just flat out unsympathetic.

    That is a fact. We all know it.

    That’s not my impression.

    I’ve been around a long time and I have seen men who absolutely wail about how evil and degenerate White women are and how they cannot get laid or find a mate. We have had conversations like that on this website before.

  11. Like I said, come on. Whatever can be said about modern women, they are NOT lacking in being outspoken for God’s sake. And going on 13 years now living in the South, I know this holds true there as well, contra some folks assertions otherwise.

    This is partially true.

    If you frequent bars and restaurants or urban nightlife, you will see plenty of women who are slutty and who are out to hookup with a man, and that holds true for any part of the country.

    At the same time, if you are in such a setting yourself, that is probably what you have in mind too.

    The thing is, there are traditional women, but you won’t find them in that setting. They are the ones who serious about always going to church. If you don’t go to church or interact with their social circles, you won’t run into them in your daily life.

    Traditionalism and Christianity are more or less the same thing. This isn’t to say that all Christians are traditionalists. It just so happens that traditionalist women are almost always Christians and serious ones at that.

  12. Tone is very important.

    There are plenty of women who read WN sites, but who never participate because of the tone in the comments or the posts on messageboards. They don’t want to insert themselves into the middle of a food fight.

    No one can say with a straight face that White Nationalism doesn’t disproportionately attract people who are inherently negative and disagreeable. Again, I could post a thread about something as uncontroversial as “race exists,” and the curmudgeons would inevitably show up to argue with each other about it.

  13. Oh, I almost forgot.

    How could I have forgotten that one? The second or third biggest complaint that I have been told about White Nationalism is that there is a kind of effeminate political correctness in WN circles, especially among Neo-Nazi homosexual types, who cluster together in little gay sewing circles on the internet.

    For example, there are people who say things like, “the whole world is a shrine to Adolf Hitler and Osama bin Laden,” or that Americans are inferior to Muslims, who repeatedly as a habit denigrate Americans while elevating Asians and Muslims.

    Traditional women in America are usually Christian conservatives. That tends to go with American patriotism or at the very least a positive perception of White America and a negative perception of the Islamic world.

    There are people who go out of their way to denigrate Christianity, America, and conservative values – while glorifying foreigners, especially Muslims – and that is highly repulsive to traditional women who overwhelmingly come from that particular background.

  14. Do you really think the fact that both women and blacks couldn’t vote has nothing to do with it? Women link the struggle for black advancement with their own. It’s sort of like Jews, who may believe that all prejudice is bad, therefore they must fight antisemitism AND racism. Women link racism to sexism not because only the white nationalist movement, but also because of American history.

  15. Even before the internet movement “White Nationalism” existed, groups like the KKK did not allow women (or Catholics) to participate.

  16. Speaking AS an actual White woman, into WN – yes. Everything you say is right en pointe, and beyond.

    I wrote 1 more or less tongue in cheek Truth Hurts article for this site – and was promptly eviscerated, by most of the posters. I had always meant to write a follow-up, but have been way too wildly busy, in 3D world, to do so.

    The main elements that drew such hostility and condemnation were:

    1 Try to learn some manners.

    2) Be nice to old ladies, and less than model-quality girls. That whole planning for the future thing…you never know who those old ladies know – and a kind world to plain young girl may do a world of good. Swans begin as ugly ducklings….

    Well – the reaction was as though I’d told every-one to sell their organs to rabbis.

    The worst problem with WN is WN males. Far and away.

    The thing is – I am married to a wonderful White man. We’ve been church-shopping, in our lovely White semi-rural world – cause most of the churches round here have been wholly corrupted by Judas Goat paid whore “ministers” – wot preach the Bless Israel Scofield scam. I think I finally found a church, though. The congregation is 99.9% White. I did see a few Non-Whites – they’ve been seeded through small communities everywhere – but mostly White families. LOADS of young White families, with the most beautiful White babies and kids. I saw a small herd of dazzling little blonde girls, in their pretty Sunday Best dresses, with their little gloves, and matching purses, emerge from the lively and CRAMMED nursery, after services, and commented to a gent I was conversing with, “My goodness! I’ve never seen so many pretty little girls!!!”

    A number of them heard me – as I intended. They are very nice polite little girls – not bold brats. None of them spoke to me – but I saw blushes, and very very very pleased smiles.

    Having been a little girl, a million years ago – I know what little girls like to hear. They want to be loved. They want to be LOVED. And I do love them. They are delightful little creatures. Beautiful young things. The only treasure that matters at all. They are our future.The little White girls – and the little White boys. And I love them.

    Do any of you know about love? ‘

    You’d never know, from the way alleged WN males discuss women, online.

    EVERY LAST ONE of us WN women utter the same laments ,t oeach other. Janaelle gets a degree of respect because she’s young and gorgeous. She came to the “movement” as a young woman. Most of us WN females are older – cause we hd to experience “diversity” first hand. We knew nothing about any of this. We were just living our lives.

    I, and other WN women I know in person, have gotten insulted and denigrated simply because we are middle-aged. We aren’t “hawt”.

    So stupid, so very very stupid, on the part of these allegedly brilliant WN males.

    We know all kinds of people. We are respected in our various circles. We have the ability to commuicate in many ways. We are usually “motherly” in our manner – either kindly “I just want what’s best for you” or scolding “I just want what’s best for you”. We can, because of our non-threatening physical appearances, put across information in ways great big brilliant and/or scary males NEVER can.

    We try to tel the males, in this movement, what THEY are dpoing wrong – and the abuse begins flying thick and fast.

    I’ll try repating this bedrock INDISPUTABLE FACT – one more time. Here goes:

    With out White women – ther will be NO White babies. No White babies – no White people.

    And it’s ALL YOUR FAULT GUYS. OWN IT. YOU had it ALL, White Men. YOU threw it ALL away. To chase toys. That’s what oyu did. You put aside social responsibilty for oyur toys, and for your usually disastrous pursuit if the chance to chase young skirt, You dumped marriage and fatherhood, for the illusions of fast cars, endless Summer, and Bunny girls. You fought Brother Wars – no questions asked. Long before there was “feminism” – ther was mass mainstream porn. YOU abandoned White women, long before we gave up on you.

    OWN IT.

    You won’t listen to the slightest advice, or input, in 3D world. Jews have gotten complete control over OUR civilizations, because they’ve been studying us for eons. They pay very very very close attention to every little thing.

    YOU pay attention to NOTHING. You wo’t even make the slightest effort to make anything about this attractive to normal women – but you’ll spend every available moment bitching about women.

    And then you’ll congratulate yourselves on your intellectual brilliance.

    Uh huh.

    We gen-yoo-wine WN females, old bags or otherwise, soldier on in spite of most of you. We do love our Volk – so we do it for them.

    Not you.

    I do it for the people I love – and I love the things our people do.

    I struggle every day to “get the message out” – cause most Whites don’t WANT to believe the horrible truth about other Races, and the peril we are in. Thy want to believe the best, in everything. I came to this “movement” in a state of horror about the collapse of our world, and the imminent demise of our Race. I’ve made every mistake in the book, in communicating with “Normals”. But i’ve triued to leanr fomr my mistakes. I LITEN to genuine, sincere criticism – sometimes after hell-raising kicking and screaming.

    I listen, in the end though – and adapt.

    I pay attention to the people I know. I’ll continue to focus my efforts and energies on the people I know. I’m really looking forward to going back to the church I attended on Sunday. The minister, FYI, is a blue-eyed blonde, kinda portly, no-nonsense White MAN. Preaching straight and true from the New Testament. He was terrific. As good as breathing clean oxygen, in fact. I want to get to know him and the congregation. I’ll try not to screw up. I’ll try really hard. I am hoping I can find the best way to alert those young families, to the danger their chidren are facing. Without repelling them, or scaring them away.

    Because I want what’s best for them. Because I love them.

    P.S. – Every-one there was really nice to me. They were happy to see new faces. They didn’t mind that I’m an old bag. Wierd, huh? They must be really stupid sheeple, or something

    PPS – Thank you for your work, and all around sanity, Hunter.

  17. Mark – thank you for your lucid assesment of Ramzpaul. Some of his videos are amusing , and salient – but the whole Yellow Fever thing is a real deal breaker,

    Ewwww.

    Why don’t alleged WN males seem to GRASP the bitter paradox of their vociferous denunciations of Mud Sharrking females, while they enthusiastically pooh pooh and shrug off WN female fury, at White males that cross the color line?

  18. Why Women Reject White Nationalism

    Do tell?

    One just has to love the ability to foment discussion, which, if done in real life, would do nothing but chill the room – or cause the roof to fly off into oblivion.

    “Why aren’t more women involved with the White Nationalist movement?”

    How many more do you need? In real white nationalist enclaves (e.g. Those areas on the East and West Coasts) where people have, like in the South, known each other for most of their lives, there is a typical dynamic: for every ‘male’ there is a satellite of approximately 3-5 other males; within this satellite, there is approximately 9-15 females. This is most common amongst ‘skinheads’ (this group is lessening with time, but still maintain a strong ‘tribal’ unit, and is adopted by many others), but is not limited to this particular social setting.

    As you work your way from the ‘inside’ (a marked ‘tribal’ unit) to a larger cohort, you reduce the level of females by degree, since the ‘tribal mechanism’ is reduced in kind, as the more socially mobile ‘tribes’ restrict themselves to proper peerage i.e. the socially upwardly mobile academic/white collar class), so as to protect themselves from ‘outsiders’. The picture becomes clear, and one may infer that the majority of ‘white nationalist females’ reside within the ‘working class’ big city, and smaller more rural environments which maintain a high degree of ‘group reliance’ which, also, maintains a more familial and dependent atmosphere among both women and their male counterparts. If witnessed first hand, these ‘units’ run the gamut of single, married, divorced, and ‘single-but-looking’ partners; there are ‘classes’ of individuals, ‘classical’, moderate, extreme, intellectual, and family oriented members within these groups.

    The interaction of these two genders is, as is to be expected, both hot and warm – but rarely cold – and group gatherings are, like most group activities, split along traditional gender lines; for instance, in a group of 20-30 people, there are usually 3-5 infants, many newborn, and 4 or 5 pre-teens. After about an hour or so, the women are drawn to, firstly, the newborns, taking them (or a majority) away from the men, who are usually talking shop, or politics and, secondly, the men will then break off into sub-groups (usually because these groups know each other better than the other groups), and then, slowly, these men will enter into the ‘female realm’ for a minute or two. Rarely have I seen arguments between ‘men and women’ as groups – only as individuals, and the conditions and reasons are as varied as one might imagine in any given group dynamic. With this said, let’s expand this formula.

    When WN’sm was first established, or as it naturally evolved, there was little or no gender issues, such as has been presented here. The lines of demarcation were clearly drawn, and as I said previously, that ‘generation’ was not afraid to meet our enemies in whichever venue presented themselves; from ‘marches’ to ‘academic’ venues, the whole atmosphere was one of hostility and potential danger. The women were, with few exceptions, left home, or if present, were given a rear-guard status – this often changed, and these wives and mothers acquitted themselves quite well. Today, with these ‘mind-trust’ venues, and less and less personal contact with each other, as well as with those who would threaten them, it becomes more and more a matter of ‘opinions’ and theories, however lucid or important, and here is where the problem lies. Women are generally more ‘verbal’ than the ‘average’ male – but WN’st men are the exception, as they are both at once traditional, as well as ‘outspoken’ (verbal) proponents of this struggle – here, in many cases, you have impasse, and once this occurs, the male ‘psychology’ of more overt aggression takes over. This is to be expected, and if certain individuals go beyond the pale, that should not be used to condemn the group entire.

    WN’st men, in my experience, have been both parochial and matriarchal in nature – a normative duality, not a transitional dichotomy. In certain ‘groups’, I have witnessed a ‘female’ head, or group ‘nexus’ which, while not of long duration, was composed of all the aspects of a ‘brotherhood’. This has been rare in my experience, and maybe someone like Prof. MacDonald could shed some light on this.

    In general, outside of these venues, there is no great ‘rift’ between our women and men; this false-flag first cropped up on small venues about six or seven years ago, and many of these ‘personalities’ moved to SF where, surprisingly, in about a two year period, has completely disorganized that stalwart of WN’sm. The amount of PC ‘females’ who consistently ‘round up’ the errant males who are very vocal about many issues, some who are quite bright and show in some cases, a very ‘profound’ sense of philosophical and race-based political acumen and, in many cases had been there for 5 or 6 years, are now gone. What many fail to understand about this example is that it was men who started SF, as were the ‘majority’ of street activists) who had paid serious penalties for being who they were, and for what they believed in – they were ‘fighters’ in the larger sense, and now have allowed themselves to become domesticated, to coin a fighting term!

    As WN’sm progressed, like DaveinNC said, “I think that if one takes the 14 Words to heart (and believes them) then caring for and nurturing his wife and children must be something that is taken seriously,” (which is the absolute truth of ANY WN’st) David Lane left us many such aphorism and precepts which, for twenty years, helped to give a certain ‘guidance’ to both the old and new members of this movement. Moreover, in the 88 Precepts, there are a few gems related to this discussion:

    33. Inter-specie compassion is contrary to the Laws of Nature and is, therefore, suicidal. If a wolf were to intercede to save a lamb from a lion, he would be killed. Today, we see the White man taxed so heavily that he cannot afford children. The taxes raised are then used to support the breeding of tens of millions of non-whites, many of whom then demand the last White females for breeding partners. As you can see, man is subject to all the Laws of Nature. This has nothing to do with morality, hatred, good or evil. Nature does not recognize the concepts of good and evil in inter-specie relationships. If the lion eats the lamb, it is good for the lion and evil for the lamb. If the lamb escapes and the lion starves, it is good for the lamb and evil for the lion. So, we see the same incident is labeled both good and evil. This cannot be, for there are no contradictions within Nature’s Laws.

    34. The instinct for sexual union is part of Nature’s perfect mechanism for specie preservation. It begins early in life and often continues until late in life. It must not be repressed; its purpose, reproduction, must not be thwarted either. Understand that for thousands of years our females bore children at an early age. Now, in an attempt to conform to and compete in an alien culture, they deny their Nature-ordained instincts and duties. Teach responsibility, but, also, have understanding. The life of a race springs from the wombs of its women. He who would judge must first understand the difference between what is good and what is right.

    35. Homosexuality is a crime against Nature. All Nature declares the purpose of the instinct for sexual union is reproduction and thus, preservations of the specie. The overpowering male sex drive must be channeled toward possession of females, as well as elements such as territory and power, which are necessary to keep them.

    36. Sexual pornography degrades the Nature of all who are involved. A beautiful nude woman is art; a camera between her knees to explore her private parts is pornography.

    37. That race whose males will not fight to death to keep and mate with their females will perish. Any White man with healthy instincts feels disgust and revulsion when he sees a woman of his race with a man of another race. Those, who today control the media and affairs of the Western World, teach that this is wrong and shameful. They label it “racism.” As any “ism,” for instance the word “nationalism,” means to promote one’s own nation; “racism” merely means to promote and protect the life of one’s own race. It is, perhaps, the proudest word in existence. Any man who disobey these instincts is anti-Nature.

    And:

    88. These are sure signs of a sick or dying Nation. If you see any of them, your guardians are committing treason.

    • Mixing and destruction of the founding race;
    • Destruction of the family units;
    • Oppressive taxation;
    • Corruption of the Law;
    • Terror and suppression against those who warn of the Nation’s error;
    • Immorality: drugs, drunkenness, etc.;
    • Infanticide (now called abortion);
    • Destruction of the currency (inflation or usury);
    • Aliens in the land, alien culture;
    • Materialism;
    • Foreign wars;
    • Guardians (leaders) who pursue wealth or glory;
    • Homosexuality;
    • Religion not based on Natural Law.

    Jack ryan is correct, when he says: “[So] instead of trying to recruit, push women in to White Nationalism, instead we should focus on improving the fraternal order – have White men behave in positive, honorable ways to other men and of course not swear in front of women and children, that sort of thing,” and this, also, was and is expected of ALL white men, let alone a WN’st, this was seen in the beginning of WN’sm as a ‘normal’ extension of ‘white civility’, also spoken of in these simple Precepts:

    82. Respect must be earned; it cannot be demanded or assumed.

    83. Avoid a vexatious man, for his venom will poison your own nature.

    84. Self discipline is a mark of higher man.

    Gregor made a very insightful comment:

    “As I personally “work with” younger people in my extended family, I have noticed that I must take a very different approach to the “girls”. If I lay out abstractions about politics, their eyes glaze over immediately. But if I approach them from THEIR INTERESTS, which as young women center around finding a mate, making a home, finding meaning in life as a woman, things move.

    The key seems to be in really LISTENING to what these young women find of concern, and not trying to impose male concerns on them. The emphasis on listening first and working from what you hear bears fruit.”

    This has been the ‘norm’ of male ‘role models’ in all the WN’st circles that I have been acquainted with – I would go as far to say that it is the ‘norm’ in all white nationalist groups and individuals throughout the nation, regardless of this drama associated with this discussion.

    To Cuchulainn who, as is stated, is a white woman, let me offer an answer to your missive:

    “It would be a good idea if the sane men of this movement got together and decided what they wanted from the women and develop a world view of the female gender so that a woman could decide if she wanted to be a part of it or not.

    Currently, there is no such consistent vision. There is a lot of arguing back and forth about just where women fit into this movement. And it is a movement, now. It is growing exponentially.”

    I doubt that a decision, per se, regarding women and men is workable, as we already have ten-thousand years of evolution and traditional Western tenets from which to draw from, but I think we all understand what you are saying. To your other points:

    “If a woman goes to a WN website wanting to comment or read the articles and she sees comments like, “women are nothing but sperm depositories”, “women have nothing of value to add at all”, “women should keep silent”, “women are narcissists”, “women are children with tits and hips”, “women are all the same, there is no differentiation”, well you get the idea. What do you think she will do? Nobody wants to be treated like they are less than human. And certainly no woman wants to be attacked just because she is a woman by some dork who just got dumped by his girlfriend and cannot tell the difference between his projections and another human being.”

    This is what I alluded too previously. The larger venues like SF have, unfortunately, allowed this lie to materialize and create havoc amongst certain groups,which, in turn, was propagated by this so-called ‘new right’; I, personally, have never seen anything like this, but as another comment pointed out, if it did happen (at least more than a few times) its source was most likely teenagers, non-whites, ANTIFA, or some derelict, bereft of common sense.

    Rest well, Sister, you ‘have’ come to the right place, and the men here, your future Brothers, will surprise you, if you give them half a chance. The total lack (as you seem to see it) of a ‘world-view’ is in large part the responsibility of those Men who, years ago, had a very real opportunity to ‘extend’ the values of Western culture, its racial manifestations in the political and personal realm, by continuously reaffirming these concepts – they failed, apparently, for many reasons, but ego and personal agenda and vision, were the largest indicators.

    One Caveat:

    Lest anyone fail to understand, as several on this site have repeated, White Nationalism is, and is becoming, a movement in the traditional sense, of previous movements; the fact that, as we see here, as well as a whole list of other issues, a tension which has taken on a life of its own – but in nature there are NO straight lines, as nature bends and moves in a more fluid presentation – just as here, when you see these ‘rifts’, coming out of nowhere, and aimed deep at the very fabric of our struggle, one could, if their experience was telling, see that these ‘issues’ are, in fact, part of a larger and, in my mind, are a ‘designed’ assassination of fundamental and traditional ideas with which all ‘groups’ depend upon.

    ************************

    Hunter, I really don’t see how you came up with these ‘eight points’, and I feel a deep concern for your partner if, in fact, these ‘insights’ came from her own wold-view, or lack of same, as this truly shows how the lack of ‘tradition’ within WN’st circles, has affected all of us.

    This particular point (#7), caught my attention:

    Dealbreaker #7: Because women will always be less interested in politics than men. White Nationalism focuses heavily on politics and science and less on culture, family, and religion which are subjects which attract more conservative women.

    I have found, generally, that our women-folk, those women who are, truly, WN’sts, are just as interested and committed to politics, but by degrees; this means, in my mind, that while they see the issues, perhaps moderated in a more ‘female’ way, nevertheless are quite well-informed. Moreover, White Nationalism is most definitely based on Family, Culture and religious or spiritual values – science and politics being part and parcel of the combination of the aforementioned elements – and not opposed to them. White Nationalism, in the final analysis, is the ‘total outgrowth’ of family, race, and nation. Period.

    Hunter, I must admit that I have had a very hard time understanding your ‘life experiences’, that which has, and is molding your own world-view, in contravention of your obvious penchant for superlative prose. Be that as it may, I would suggest that, in the future, if discussions of this sort must be raised, it be raised with a more poignant view of the implications of what WN’sm can, and does do for our women and our People, namely, that we must secure an existence for our people and a future for white children, and this requires the efforts of both our Women and our Men.

    I have learned to not take most of this to heart, as it becomes an endless circle – although this discussion will be with us for as long as there are women and men, and one cannot say that OD is not sufficient in its coverage and in its interests in white survival. Kudos.

    Faustus

  19. Denise says:
    May 25, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Mark – thank you for your lucid assesment of Ramzpaul.

    You’re welcome.

    It’s refreshing to see a female who both appreciates and advocates a strong racialist position. Because the purity of all of our native stocks are in peril, and miscegenation is increasing and further blurring the lines of what is acceptably White. Now is not the time to be lenient and look the other way, lest we end up like Latin America.

    Some of his videos are amusing , and salient – but the whole Yellow Fever thing is a real deal breaker,

    He’s like pop culture meets White nationalism. It has its uses but we should still hold him to acceptable standards.

    Why don’t alleged WN males seem to GRASP the bitter paradox of their vociferous denunciations of Mud Sharrking females, while they enthusiastically pooh pooh and shrug off WN female fury, at White males that cross the color line?

    Most people are egocentric and if it doesn’t affect them directly they don’t care. As long as their egos are being stroked they’re fine with miscegenation. They’re not serious racialists.

    Don’t worry, I’ll be there to get in their face and piss them off. Someone has to keep them in line.

  20. Even before the internet movement “White Nationalism” existed, groups like the KKK did not allow women (or Catholics) to participate.

    They had separate women’s divisions, I am in favor of it. There can be some crossover but overall I think it’s the best solution.

  21. Hunter Wallace says:
    May 25, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Even on this very blog how many of the so-called White nationalists have been outed as miscegenators and homosexuals.

    The Admiral and Greg Johnson

    Two of the more egregious cases, but there are others as well, especially if you include subracial miscegenation with Jews.

    At least you and Campbell set a good standard.

  22. You fellas don’t need to “give us” a women’s group. I’ll talk to my cohorts. We’ll create our own groups.

  23. “What we all know is so far you haven’t said a thing that has made any damn sense.

    You know a “great many men” that are “HBD cogelite nerds who glorify Asian women and who denigrate White women,” and “geeky, socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome or who are creepy in some way as well as the homosexual misogynists” who according to you are banging supermodels with great personalities.”

    Okay, I can at least see where I misunderstood what you meant by women being outspoken and that you was talking about not being outspoken enough on racial matters. But you surely did not think I was talking about “HBD cogelite nerds” did you? I would have imagined that most people would have knew what I was talking about. I had in mind the men who are discussed out here in the world.

    I’ll just apologize. I forget that when I am on the Internet I am mostly talking with people whose sole context is a few websites. I should have realized that an assertion that modern women are not outspoken meant they are not outspoken about white power.

    How foolish of me.

    And how careless of me to not have realized that you would confuse my comments about “Bad boys” and the like who seem to have little trouble attracting women to mean I was talking about creepy kids who spend all their time on the computer visiting Stormfront and VNN.

    Such confusion happens all the time I’m sure. My mistake. I’ll just end my comments on here with a suggestion that you may perhaps refrain from criticizing people for using “straw men” arguments. Do you know what “pot meet kettle” means, or do you have to have a picture drawn to understand that, too?

  24. “The thing is, there are traditional women, but you won’t find them in that setting. They are the ones who serious about always going to church. If you don’t go to church or interact with their social circles, you won’t run into them in your daily life.

    Traditionalism and Christianity are more or less the same thing. This isn’t to say that all Christians are traditionalists. It just so happens that traditionalist women are almost always Christians and serious ones at that.”

    Uh-Huh.

    Church women huh?

    You’ll learn.

  25. As usual, over analyzing everything …. WHILE ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING.

    Stay strong, internet legends!

    Mark, tell us of your accomplishments, great white warrior!
    I will print them out so they are known IRL and not just on the internet.

    You will be whiter than the paper I print them on!

  26. “Jen” you’re a mentally ill troll. Why don’t you go play with your hero Ramz Paul, because he is accomplishing so much.

  27. Jen – Ramsey prefers Yellow Insects. He could do a LOT, in the real world, for his Race. But his viddies, while amusing at times, are there for his own exposure. He wants to be FAMOUS. He doesn’t want to save any-one, excepting his ability to bang very young Yellow Insects.

    Why are you insulting Mark? At least Mark is loyal to his own kind.

  28. I imagine the number of talented White women who could organize something meaningful in White nationalism is even smaller than the men. They would simply weigh the cost and benefits of such an endeavor and come to the conclusion that it’s not worth it as women are more pragmatic, and instead put their time and energy into something more productive, socially acceptable and personally and financially rewarding.

  29. “Actually once human cloning comes into style, women won’t be necessary to continue the human species. But then Christianity would fight against that.”

    After choking on my coke when I read the above, I simply *must* address this:

    Denise is right, Iceman. Without White women, no White people. Cloning’s not the magic bullet to be rid of us, sorry.
    Iceman, you can’t clone without an ovum, which, in the cloning process, you remove the existing haploid nucleus from the egg with a different, diploid nucleus.
    You can’t clone without a human ovum to genetically manipulate, and the only source for viable human ovums is human women.
    Also, you must have a uterus to gestate that zygote resulting from your cloning process.
    And note: artificial uteri are still science fiction; further away than teleportation, probably.

  30. “remove the existing haploid nucleus from the egg with a different, diploid nucleus.”

    Oops. Pardon my gibberish.

    Should be
    “remove the existing haploid nucleus from the egg *and replace it* with a different, diploid, nucleus.”

  31. @ Denise

    With out White women – ther will be NO White babies. No White babies – no White people.

    And it’s ALL YOUR FAULT GUYS. OWN IT. YOU had it ALL, White Men. YOU threw it ALL away. To chase toys. That’s what oyu did. You put aside social responsibilty for oyur toys, and for your usually disastrous pursuit if the chance to chase young skirt, You dumped marriage and fatherhood, for the illusions of fast cars, endless Summer, and Bunny girls. You fought Brother Wars – no questions asked. Long before there was “feminism” – ther was mass mainstream porn. YOU abandoned White women, long before we gave up on you.

    OWN IT.

    Well said sister!! Seems the ugly sisters, the girls with love, loyalty, laughter, intelligence, etc… who would take a bullet for a white nationalist of honour, a man of his word, simply are not good enough….

    I think these ‘WN’ are not interested in a woman for her character, for what a loving mother and wife she would be, what a friend and soulmate, but for how big her tits are; and how much she is willing to be his ‘sperm depository’ to pop out kids, while he sits and plays poker talking about his alleged concerns for white nationalism…, while forgetting the kids names or birthdays…. any sane society would castrate them for untermensch genetics!

    They are not sincerely concerned about a strong family life, about values of honour and integrity, about an honest society; a society of loving kindness and firm boundaries for children in a loving home….

    And this 13 year old juvenile mentality they have yet to ask: is this mature?

    At the end of the day, when you create a society which has a founding principle that its members are valued in accordance to their character and honour and integrity; then you will create an honest honourable society. If you found your society on judging people by their Hollywood factor; you will end up living in Hollywierd Insane Asylum.

  32. Here’s a suggestion that has worked really well for me.

    Simply stop trying to engage White women with politics.

    Instead, learn, train very hard to become a good partner dancer in some White oriented dance like C&W 2 stepping. White women like to dance and they like all the social things that go around dancing.

    It’s lead and follow dancing where the (White) guy takes the lead. This is a direct comparison to the mating, marriage rituals. If you are a healthy, sane, White guy who knows hot to “take the lead” in partner dancing – you’ll do fine with women in all the areas that matter.

    Learn to dance – yes, also learn to fight, but the dancing skills are actually more important with women.

    White male/female relations always, always break down when men and women start talk, talk, talking, arguing – when White women see indecision, hear endless talk, talk, talk – the whole social order breaks down and men and women do not connect, can’t even get along.

    Study our close animal relatives the gorillas and see their mating rituals – it has nothing to do with politics and the female gorillas initiate the action.

    White Americans need to become more physical, less intellectual and rediscover the natural ways that have always worked for us.

    Yeah, learn to dance – take the lead.

  33. Good points, Jack.

    Some women like politics and especially the idea of helping to save the European/American culture. We LOVE dancing, too!

  34. The last thread about women was removed after getting some editorial advice from a trusted friend.

    Instead of arguing about the defects of White Nationalism, the sensible idea is to just create a place that is pro-White and welcomes women, and tells them they have a useful role to play in the race struggle and point out all the positive ways that women can be of assistance.

    Having White children is only one thing that women can do. If you look at the rise of Christianity, you have will find that the decisive advantage that Christianity had over Roman paganism is that it accepted women who …

    (1) Raised their children as Christians.

    (2) Converted their spouse to Christianity.

    (3) Converted their entire families to Christianity.

    In traditional societies, men have been providers, but women are in charge of the household. Only a fool who is utterly ignorant of history would argue that women should be excluded.

    Women are in charge of the education of children. They manage the household. They are often at the very center of the moral and religious activities of households.

    In our society, women are ALSO breadwinners, and whether we like that or not, it effectively means that women are more influential and have a greater say in things than ever before, so you would think that men would recognize that women have to be included.

    There are plenty of households where women are in charge of paying the bills. Even when the man is the principal breadwinner, his wife is often the one who takes the time to write out the bills. The woman also cooks and buys the groceries.

    Thus, the woman understands the power bill, the water bill, the cable bill, the grocery bill, paying the rent, having to pay loans, paying college tuition and so forth in ways that men often do not because they delegate those responsibilities.

    White Nationalists are often single men. They don’t understand what women do in married households. Especially couples who have children.

    There are so many ways that women can be of assistance that I really ought to create a separate thread just to list them all. One of the biggest things is that women buy the groceries and see African-Americans getting free groceries and thus have a huge racial resentment just waiting to be exploited by intelligent racialists.

    When your child is beat up at school by African-Americans or is picked on or has to deal with a hostile environment, that affects women.

    Anyway, it is kind of amazing that this subject is even really debated. It makes me question the intelligence of people who believe that somehow women shouldn’t be included.

    Women don’t have to do everything that men do or even discuss all the political angles of being pro-White to be included and find a useful place in the race struggle.

    Here’s a novel idea: if there were more women around, they could smoothe over tensions in the White Nationalist community because women are natural conciliators, and energy that is wasted on stupid factional infighting could be diverted to more productive activities.

    One of the reasons there is so much fighting in the White Nationalist movement is because women aren’t around in equal numbers. Men don’t fight with women as much as they do with other men. No one fights at church.

    Here’s another idea: if White Nationalists were equally drawn from all types of White people instead of disproportionately from alienated aggrieved victimized intellectuals, our image would dramatically improve overnight because intellectuals are by nature tone deaf and suck at messaging, WN wouldn’t seem nearly as weird, and more fence sitters would jump in.

    I could continue, but it is hard to believe that something that is so obvious can be so controversial. Then again, the same people who say that women ought to be excluded say that Christians and conservatives have to be excluded and demonized too.

    So what you are left with when all the demographic groups that are not good enough to be WN (Christians, conservatives, moderates, liberals, women, Republican voters, libertarians, “normal people,” people who disagree with National Socialism, people who disagree with genocide, people who like America, people who like private property, etc.) are tallied up is four or five people who sound like Harold Covington, Greg Johnson, and Chechar whose exclusive idea of “revolution” couldn’t fill up a single McDonald’s restaurant.

    By the process of elimination, 99.9 percent of White America has been voted off Survivor Island by four or five Neo-Nazi homosexuals, and the 0.1 percent (i.e., the divine elect of the vanguard) retreats to the project of cult building.

  35. The “Barriers to Involvement” portion of this essay is very insightful

    Much of what I’ve been saying in the comments there. I get all the attacks someone else gets all the credit.

  36. Greg Johnson of all people, who describes the whole world a shrine to Osama bin Laden, who has said on his website that he is secretly God, who is a homosexual who talks about using eugenics to create Elf-like creatures, is talking about “eliminating mental defectives” from the White Nationalist movement.

    Maybe he could start with the kooks on his own website? He could start by offing himself.

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/05/the-woman-question-in-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/

    Here is Chechar:

    What you call normal are in fact Body-Snatched Pods, like in the 1956 film The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. We are but the few remaining humans who haven’t been snatched (alas, two of the best male intellectuals in the movement are on the brink of being snatched on this issue, as you can see in their Alt Right articles). . . .

    The queer alternative is continuing to complain, as women and feminized western males do, against this movement. If the few remaining non-Pods follow the lead of Janelle Antas at Alt Right the West will disappear as a historical civilization. The opposite stance to Antas’s petty demands on men is what I said above: “We [men] have to unite, increase exponentially our ranks, and eventually fight like the men in Covington’s novels”.

    Normal people are “Body Snatched Pods” whereas Chechar and Greg Johnson are “non-Pods” and among the few remaining human beings on this planet. If White women are welcomed into our ranks and given useful roles, Western civilization will disappear.

    But what about women who don’t care about the survival of the White race (most of them today)? You can see the gulf between the feminized western males at Alternative Right and the ancient Romans who, when their ethnic group was on peril of extinction resorted to the most obvious solution to the problem.

    Chechar is saying that White Nationalists should rape women for not being in the White Nationalist movement.

    Who cares what some “normal” women think. Indeed, who cares what women think, period. From when has feminine opinion mattered? The women you are referring to are abnormal as they don’t accept what has been normal for millenia throughout all civilizations.

    Iranian Muslims are at Counter-Currents bashing “normal” White women who we do not need around.

    More from Chechar:

    We have to be men again. We have to unite, increase exponentially our ranks, and eventually fight like the men in Covington’s novels. Conversely, all of this intellectual seduction to appease the feminists at Alt Right strikes me as queer. Don’t you agree?

    A Mexican homosexual is on Counter-Currents agreeing with an Iranian Muslim about fighting like a man in Harold Covington’s novels. The only time Harold ever got in a fight he pissed in his pants and got checked out of school by his parents.

    More Chechar:

    If in the racial dictatorship we force women to make the sacrifices you point out above we must compromise too: specifically on fidelity and not abusing the fairer, albeit younger nymphets.

    Pedophile fantasies about molesting “younger nymphets.”

    5. By animal-husbandry I meant men husbanding their women. Naturally, I couldn’t resist equating women with animals.

    Women ought to be “husbanded” like animals. Women are like livestock.

    An entirely separate movement is needed at this point.

  37. Hunter, I think I peed in my pants a little while reading your post. That is hilarious!
    Is anyone over at Counter Currents actually White?
    Priceless stuff!

  38. Johnson is a White homosexual.

    There are a few other White people who write there. I have met some of them in real life. The funniest thing about this whole episode is that Amanda Bradley is one of the best Counter-Currents writers and has written all sorts of essays about the involvement of women in the Far Right.

    Everything that Greg Johnson and Chechar have said about women being stupid and useless is refuted by the material on their own website:

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/05/remembering-isadora-duncan-pagan-priestess-of-dance/

    See also here:

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/04/women-of-the-far-right-part-3/
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/04/women-of-the-far-right-part-2-catherine-curtis-laura-ingalls-and-agnes-waters/
    http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/04/women-of-the-far-right-part-1-elizabeth-dilling/

    Johnson is furious with me because he is embarrassed and knows how much of a fool he must look like right now.

    Women are stupid and useless and must be raped and kept out of White Nationalist circles for “non-Pods” like Chechar can be included, BUT Amanda writes for his own site and has a grasp of these issues that is light years beyond the victimized wimps who are ragging on women in the Counter-Currents comments

    There are only one or two people over there who have said anything that makes sense about the subject.

    How could White men possibly be the victims of White women? It was White men who gave White women the right to vote. It was White men who signed off on feminism. It was White men who allowed the Jews to come here.

    It was White men who signed off on miscegenation, integration, and their own racial dispossession … because they were afraid of being called a “racist” or a “sexist,” as that would mean they might lose the big bass boat parked in the front yard.

    The fact is, if White men had the character and the will to take back their society, it would happen tomorrow. The only reason that it hasn’t happened is that White men go along with the status quo. That would change if they had a better grasp on the situation.

    The only thing stopping White men from putting an end to feminism is the will power of White men. Are White men the victims of their own children too?

    When the daughters of White men date negroes, whose fault is that? Who allows the young girl to dress like a slut and watch MTV and do drugs and waste herself away? Who allows their 16 year old daughter to get tattoos and piercings?

    When children backtalk their parents, whose fault is that? Are White men the victims of the insolence of their own children?

    The only people you can blame for that are White men who act nothing like their great-grandfathers. Your great-grandfather didn’t put up with shit like that because he was a real man.

    If you travel further back down your family tree, you will find that your ancestors were pioneers who built a civilization out of the wilderness, who ruled this country, who fought and defeated the Indians who lived here, who protected their families from all sorts of dangers.

    There is just something galling about a bunch of victimized men holding a Oprah Winfrey pity party for themselves. It is like a scene out of Fight Club in the support group where Bob has boobs.

    Look at the Germans. Look at the Confederates.

    The Germans fought the Red Army. The Confederates fought the Union Army at places like Gettysburg.

    Meanwhile, the descendants of the men who fought at Gettysburg think of themselves as victims because they are afraid to even say hello to each other at an IHOP restaurant for fear of being called a “racist” by the SPLC.

    They allowed themselves to be ruled by the vice of cowardice and then consider themselves victims. It is unbelievable.

    We are not victims here. We are the ones who allowed the situation to get out of hand. If we got together and found the resolve to change our circumstances, then our grievances would disappear.

  39. Ramzpaul is not a asiaphile. He said he thinks some asian girls are cute. So what? I believe that comment was uncalled for but it’s not big deal.

    He hates ignorant white idiots that make this movement look like a movement of 80 IQ males that hate nonwhites because they breathe.

    Ramzpaul’s daughter just graduated college, and guess what? She’s white, blue eyed just like dad, so much for being an asiaphile right? Feel stupid? You should

  40. Greg Johnson of all people, who describes the whole world a shrine to Osama bin Laden, who has said on his website that he is secretly God, who is a homosexual

    Chechar is saying that White Nationalists should rape women for not being in the White Nationalist movement.

    Iranian Muslims are at Counter-Currents bashing “normal” White women who we do not need around.

    A Mexican homosexual is on Counter-Currents agreeing with an Iranian Muslim about fighting like a man in Harold Covington’s novels.

    5. By animal-husbandry I meant men husbanding their women. Naturally, I couldn’t resist equating women with animals.

    Who needs to read fictional novels when you have crazy people like this. It’s like an online text-based game where they get to live out their demented fantasies.

    That someone would follow a sociopathic queer shows that they’re mentally ill and degenerate in the first place. Took you a while to come around Hunter, but you eventually got there. Better late than never unlike most of these other clowns.

    It’s like another VNN where some deranged sociopath with a big mouth attracts other mental defectives and social outcasts into a cult. At least they’re all in one place and away from us.

    A problem I see repeatedly such as the above retarded comment, is that too many Whites, even within the so-called “White nationalist movement” have terrible judgment and are willfully stupid. They follow and defend the wrong people.

  41. Two of my comments are being held by the filter, they’re basically the same, delete one if you want.

  42. Ramzpaul is not a asiaphile. He said he thinks some asian girls are cute. So what? I believe that comment was uncalled for but it’s not big deal.

    You just contradicted yourself, idiot. You don’t have the courage of your convictions, you’re milquetoast just like that effeminate dork Ramz Paul.

    He has an attraction to Asian women and thinks it’s perfectly normal. He states this in a defiant way against other “masculine” White women that are “just jealous” of pretty Asian women.

    http://www.ramzpaul.com/2009/08/interacting-with-all-sorts-of-women.html

  43. Mark,

    Can you quickly explain what is wrong with Ramzpaul?

    http://www.ramzpaul.com/

    I had never heard of this person until you mentioned him in the comments. When I did a Google search, I discovered that he is the guy who did that YouTube video about the Japanese and Haitians earthquakes, which I remember being a pretty good video.

    I didn’t realize there were other videos or a website or that this individual was well known. Seeing as how you know more about him than I do, what am I missing here?

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