A few days ago, I posted my suspicions that something was up at Takimag. I had heard various rumors flying around. The Sniper’s Tower was dead. Most of the regular contributors seemed to have disappeared. Mandolyna and Christina Oxenberg had taken over the place. The site wasn’t being as frequently updated as usual.
Today, Richard Spencer announced he was leaving and that Mandolyna was taking over as editor. This is more of less what I had heard: Taki had decided to turn over the magazine to his daughter and abandon politics. Judging by the recent output, Spencer isn’t the only writer who is packing his bags. Taki has effectively destroyed his own site on a whim. I’m not sure why. Perhaps some brave soul could enlighten us?
The good news is that Richard Spencer is launching a new webzine in February that will include a lot more HBD discussion. I predict it will be more open to White Nationalism. In its final days, writers like Alex Kurtagic and Richard Hoste had begun to appear at Takimag. The new site will probably go further in this direction. I for one will be looking forward to it.
So Hunter Wallace are you saying that smart people in the white nationalist movement scare Alex Linder. That if this movement actually created a real intellectual base, that Linder and others would lose their power. I have often thought that Vanguardists and the Politically Correct Left have the same interests for white nationalism. Both really do not want a mainstream white nationalist movement with an intellectual elite. They want white nationalism to continue to be the fetish of losers and weirdos. Liberals get a class of people they can feel superior to, without them worrying about a potential overthrow of power. Vanguardists get to rule the roost in the white nationalist world, without any challenge of power either.
I think the new intellectual elite in the white nationalist movement should call themselves Occidentalists.
HW (@ 47),
For the life of me, I don’t see how GW could consider Linder as anything other than a hothead defective. He argues as if Linder’s decisions are based on fine philosophical distinctions, which is beyond ridiculous.
HW (@ 50),
That’s a fair point; however, at the time all that was going on TakiMag was more of a paleocon site that regularly featured the likes of Zmirak and Raimondo. I’m honestly not sure what came first, the closing of the comments section or Spencer’s editorship, but TakiMag didn’t really become amenable to a more racialist perspective until the last few months.
My only fear is that Spencer will let his new project get bogged down in the scientific minutia of HBD at the expense of discussing politics. I want to see more from the likes of Hoste and less from the likes of Sailer (or heaven forbid Razib Khan).
It’s ironic that Linder keeps praising Hitler and German National Socialists, since Hitler – like any successful leader – continuously strove to hold his party’s competing cliques, factions and ideological currents together. He even worked with national Bolsheviks all throughout the 20’s and early 30’s. Linder, in turn, busies himself alienating people and excommunicating those who don’t share his “vision.” In other words, he does the exact opposite of what his idol Hitler did.
…but Linder is not a leader or even a serious individual, he’s a gadfly with a little forum and a small cadre of hard core sycophants.
HW: I’m not familar with Stephen Elliot. He must be a new commentator. I guess he came over from Majority Rights.
Nope. But Friedrich isn’t posting on this thread.
HW: CC and Linder got the comment section at Takimag shut down.
My long experience of testing the limits of acceptable speech suggests that action against racially-aware postings, when it happens, is a response not to the postings but to vocal compaint from offended parties. Of course, I accept that Alex Linder would present special problems if in an impolitic mood.
I fear that there has already been more thought on this thread about the new direction of Taki’s Magazine than there has been at Taki’s Magazine itself. You can’t shake the impression that the whole project is ruled by the whims of a rich man. Could it be that on a whim, he created a serious website? Then did he weary of it? So, on another whim, is he giving it to his daughter to write about shopping, gossip, bitching, and similar inanities? I hope it turns out better than that, but that is how the tea leaves are reading right now.
I know Richard Spencer, and I respect his character and judgment. His new magazine will be a significant improvement over Taki’s Magazine, because it will be the work of a single mind and thus have greater focus, a coherent vision. Spencer’s direction will continue the trend observed in the last year or so of Taki’s Magazine of opening toward the right. That is where his convictions, his questions, and his sense of adventure are taking him.
GW,
I saw what Linder was posting and spamming at Takimag. If he disrupted my site in such a fashion, I would have banned him and censored the comments as well. I have no doubt that you would have reacted the same way.
Unfortunately, Linder’s spamming campaign gave the resident anti-racists like John Zmirak and Justin Raimondo the upper hand and they convinced Taki to ban all the racialists and shut down the comment section.
@Notuswind,
With apologies for abuse of the thread (and this should be the last), I’ve responded to your “comment” to “superhuman” with another note in the STFTD column, not knowing whether my email response to the email notification of your comment is going to get back to you.
Please let me know, with another comment thereto, whether my email response got to you at the “no-reply” email address.
Please suggest another way to do this that preserves your anonymity, if that is a concern. You are welcome to have my email address.
NN
If Nina Kouprianova is some sort of Tatar, she is hot enough to single-handedly destroy racial purism. But that black hair comes from a bottle (just like the Goths of old, I am sure), and her family contains fair-haired people as well.
Where do these trolls come from?
While it is true that Justin Ramaindo and John Zmirak would throw hissy fits anytime a white person would give the faintest hint of self-preservation, I do not think they had any influence on recent events. Spencer was not fired. I was told that Taki himself wanted to take the site in a new direction, so Spencer decided to start another site.
Some people continue to want to make more out of this than they should. You need to venture outside White Nat circles a little bit. There has been a public feud between Chronicles (meaning primarily or entirely Fleming as far as I can tell) and TakiMag for some time. While I have no use for neopagans and side with Christianity as does Chronicles, I thought the public and personal nature of the Feud was unfortunate. But it is very easy to read between the lines about what happened. Fleming (and likely others) complained to Taki (and Spencer I suppose) about the neopagan direction. I do not know if Spencer refused to back down, quit, or was fired. But what is clear is that Taki was an absent editor and was not aware of the directional drift. The complaints brought it to his attention. So those who want to make this about Taki getting PC are reading into it what they want to believe, not following the facts that are out there if they would bother to investigate. Read the last entry on this thread, #86.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2009/11/19/athens-and-jerusalem-v-the-germanization-of-christianity/
“Takimag is a work in progress. Its namesake and funder has no agenda. He never goes online and, as he would be the first to say, cannot even handle the email program on his computer. He makes me and Chilton Williamson seem like technical whiz kids, and that is saying a great deal. Under its new editor, Takimag can be expected to take a new direction and give up this rather foolish Tendenz. I wish the project well, as I have always wished it well, if only for the name it bears.” ~ Thomas Fleming
Taki may brag about his personal exploits and doesn’t seem particularly observant, but I do not believe he is hostile to Christianity either. That is what this is about. Search some of the other threads at Chronicles as well. Some details are known only to those involved, but some of the larger issues are clear. Much of the speculation making the rounds is ill-informed.
I believe that this proposition that Nina is a Tatar is very serious charge that will not rest until we’re offered considerably more pics so that we can make an objective determination!
Well, in the spirit of anthropological inquiry, I suggest that you get your calipers and measuring equipment and carefully review her extensive portfolio on her Facebook profile.
“…but Linder is not a leader or even a serious individual, he’s a gadfly with a little forum and a small cadre of hard core sycophants.”
That’s why this site is Linder obsessed?
Nina appears to be wearing a yarmulke in Richard Spencer’s Facebook profile picture. She is officially a Jew. Next!
4.) Alex Linder changed his litmus test for one reason only: TOQ Online, Occidental Observer, and Occidental Dissent appeared on the scene and adopted this approach.
Linder perceived our work as a threat to his marketshare and financial contributions. So he initiated “unrestricted warfare” against Greg Johnson and Dr. MacDonald. He is a petty individual who is financially motivated, not the “crusader” he makes himself out to be.
If he wanted more donations he would have tried to grow his own site. Far from gaining him new donors, his attacks on other sites have alienated his already diminished audience.
His problems are mental. As in mental case. He’s compelled to ruin every friendship and break every alliance that he forms. He had a rising, influential site a couple of years ago. He could have stepped in as Stormfront banned people and created the number one WN board. His radio programs were improving in quality with more hours produced each week. He blew it all with petty infighting and his refusal to listen to criticism.
Then, as Greg found out, he was unable to accept it when people struck out on their own to escape his dictatorial, capricious management style. That’s probably the real source of his animus. Not that Greg said something he disagreed with recently, but that Greg dared to walk away from Linder’s abusive personality cult.
I doubt he’s a federal informant. He can no more cooperate with law enforcement than he can cooperate with WNs.
http://www.takimag.com/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_135.jpg
^^ Spencer is getting criticized for dating her? I can see a line forming of men who would happily trade places!
Zmirak left Takimag a while ago because Jared Taylor was getting published there.
BTW, Zmirak is still obsessing over Nazis and the female reproductive system. I still read him from time to time over at Inside Catholic.
Stephen Elliott: “We already have all the moral and intellectual equipment necessary, what’s missing is the implementation phase and that won’t happened without a movement, i.e. meetings and feet on the ground.”
Unfortunately I think we’re still in the Grandstanding and Kitchen Gossip Phase.
notuswind: I don’t see how GW could consider Linder as anything other than a hothead defective. He argues as if Linder’s decisions are based on fine philosophical distinctions, which is beyond ridiculous.
I have spoken at length to Alex Linder and find in him a curious and suprising mixture of startling sincerity and calculating artifice. I do not find in him the one-dimensional wild-eyed monster you apparently do.
I consider neither him nor Friedrich Braun nor, certainly, Hunter as a foe. However, I reserve suspicion for anyone – anyone – who awards himself the position of leader and promptly draws a veil of secrecy across his plans. Whatever happened to brotherhood … consultation … the search for unity … “no enemy to the right” … simple courtesy, damn it?
I am doubly suspicious about the practicality of mainstreaming. I find only questions buzzing around in my head when Hunter talks about “revolution”, a “mass movement” and a “vanguard”, but does not (and probably cannot because he has signed a secrecy agreement) explain how conservatisation of the message can deliver such consequences. Will this Richard Spencer person, who I do not know, begin to name the Jew? Will John Derbyshire, whose latest book was none too promisingly titled We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism, renounce all his career-saving digressions and declare for the ethnostate at National Review? I mean, will he? Yes or no?
Because if not, what exactly is it that is supposed to happen? Don’t give me the pablum about attracting ten million traditional conservatives and Christians to the cause. I want specifics. What are the milestones along the way? What are the near objectives? And if the answer is “not that many actually, but we have to do something, for pete’s sake” – and I suspect it is – forgive me if I return to my prior contention that conservatism has never offered traction in a liberal polity, and will not do so now.
For the record, notuswind – and call me a Jew-lover if you like – I have published Nu-Freidrich here:
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/friedrich_braun_on_the_other_approach_to_jewry/
… so I don’t know what he has to gripe about.
Ultimately only Richard Spencer can put the rumors about Nina to bed.
Guessedworker, not attacking allies like Kevin MacDonald isn’t conservative, it’s good old fashioned common sense. Hunter has shown that Alex is moving the goalposts. He used to attack if you didn’t name the jew. Now he attacks people who name the jew if he has some personal issues with them. As for secrecy, we are in an ideological fight for our lives here. Not everything can or should be revealed.
I second Guessedworker’s endorsement of CC’s point in comment #10, to wit:
“Ultimately only Richard Spencer can put the rumors about Nina to bed.”
Doesn’t this ‘contribution’ just say it all?
OldRight,
I am in no way a spokeman for Alex. But he can’t speak for himself here. So I will simply observe – because I believe it to be true – that the Linder line is not to attack MacDonald but to attack accomodation and to attack selling-out for respectability. He see conservatism not as a land to be conquered but as a black hole into which all nationalist sentiment is unfailingly swallowed up and lost.
There is truth in this, and White Nationalists ignore it to their cost.
He used to attack if you didn’t name the jew.
He has always been an anti-conservative.
As for secrecy, we are in an ideological fight for our lives here. Not everything can or should be revealed.
When there is a real fight you will have a real point. Today, it is just a dismissive and insulting behaviour, and I suspect those responsible for it – Greg – know that and do not care. Eventually, I suppose, we will all learn what it is that is so incredibly important and sensitive. I wonder what you will think then.
A few points.
1.) Psychopaths are not wild eyed monsters. That’s a misconception. They tend to come across as charming and sincere. Linder matches every diagnostic criterion of a psychopath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
2.) Jim Giles has a YouTube video called “Follow Me.” He constantly plays that General Moore video on RFM. Alex Linder advertises himself as a leader. He attacks other WN leaders.
3.) I’ve never claimed to be a leader. I have stated repeatedly that I am nothing more than a private citizen who publicizes racial and Jewish issues.
4.) Intelligent racialists know that the “vanguardist” vs. “mainstreamer” division within the WN movement is an artificial distinction.
5.) If we were to ever go about forming a true “vanguard,” one along the lines that Sam Davidson describes, not another cartoon Nazi fringe group, naturally it wouldn’t make sense to draw unwanted attention to it in light of the prevailing ideological climate.
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/01/02/why-we-need-a-vanguard/
6.) We don’t have any choice but to “mainstream” our message. A viable White ethnostate will require millions of supporters. The only proposed alternative is to create small racialist cults which will mysteriously take power once “the collapse” solves all our problems. We don’t have the time to wait around for miracles.
7.) The vast majority of people who join the White Nationalist movement don’t start out as full blown radicals. They move through a series of stages. This is true even of the most radical people out there.
8.) “Mainstreaming” White Nationalism logically requires an incremental approach. We have to exploit the Overton Window and build stepping stones from the margins to the mainstream.
9.) We don’t have the luxury of choosing our starting point. We have to start out within the PC controlled mainstream.
In other words, we need people within the mainstream pushing the national discourse on race and Jews in a more radical direction, not necessarily all the way to White Nationalism, but to the adjacent discursive space.
We need progressives to become moderates. We need moderates to become conservatives. We need mainstream conservatives to become paleocons. We need libertarians and paleocons to become race realists. We need race realists to become White Nationalists.
10.) In order to do this, we need people who are in a position to influence public opinion. We don’t need sociopaths in trailers ranting and raving about Z.O.G. and pronouncing anathema on everyone who isn’t as radical as they are.
11.) Winning is defined as pulling the mainstream in our direction, not getting pulled by the mainstream into conservatism and milquetoast racialism.
12.) There is plenty of work to be done within White Nationalism. This involves carving out a discursive space for sane, moral, and reasonable people. It also involves establishing a border between “respectable” White Nationalism and the “fringe” we should leave behind.
GW,
Where is the sell out? Can you point to it? I’m not seeing it. I’ve been following Alex Linder for years. Until recently, his litmus test was always 1.) being explicitly racial, 2.) naming the Jew, and 3.) endorsing the ethnostate.
OD, TOQ Online, and Occidental Observer are doing all of the above. The new litmus test is that you are a “conservative” unless you endorse genocide of the Jews. He is saying that you have to be a psychopath to be a White Nationalist.
It should be noted here that William Pierce wasn’t “revolutionary” enough for Alex Linder. That really says it all. It reveals his true motivations.
Hunter,
Where is the sell out? Can you point to it? I’m not seeing it.
Why don’t you unban the man, and ask him to come here and speak for himself – on the proviso that he observes the rules of your house. On those rare occasions he has commented at MR he has done so in the lingua franca of the site, not in his native VNN.
Until recently, his litmus test was always 1.) being explicitly racial, 2.) naming the Jew, and 3.) endorsing the ethnostate.
OD, TOQ Online, and Occidental Observer are doing all of the above. The new litmus test is that you are a “conservative” unless you endorse genocide of the Jews.
Here are Alex’s own words to me, from a private conversation of a few days before the current storm broke. I trust he won’t mind my breaking the confidence on this occasion.
He is saying that you have to be a psychopath to be a White Nationalist.
He is addressing a certain constituency which you and I eschew – you know that. Anyway, show me a man who is entirely sane and I will show you a damned good liar.
GW,
“‘Where is the sell out? Can you point to it? I’m not seeing it.’ [-HW]
Why don’t you unban the man, and ask him to come here and speak for himself – on the proviso that he observes the rules of your house. On those rare occasions he has commented at MR he has done so in the lingua franca of the site, not in his native VNN.”
I hope you don’t mind if I rudely point out how this paragraph didn’t answer Hunter’s question.
By the way, I did have a long response to your comment (@74) but I see that HW already got around to it.
notuswind,
I hope you don’t mind if I rudely point out how this paragraph didn’t answer Hunter’s question.
Well, in speaking up for Alex Linder here I am running the risk of being identified with him, and I do not wish that. So I am appealing to Hunter to let Alex answer that and all other questions himself, if he so wishes.
Over the past month, I have “named the Jew” at least 20x more than Alex Linder, but without the vulgarity, crudity, and genocidal rhetoric that repulses rational people from discussing the Jewish Question:
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/
I’m aggregating a daily record of Jewish mischief that has no parallel elsewhere in the blogosphere. I can point to Antisemitica and show any reasonable outsider why White Nationalists dislike Jews.
GW (@ 84),
Fair enough.
Whatever disagreement we might have about Linder I would just like to stress that I have always been (and remain) a fan of your work and writings over at MR. I honestly feel that there is almost nothing that we disagree about (not that it matters).
I am also reasonably confident that your opinion of Linder would parallel mine if you were born an American. American society has a way of developing certain kinds of extremists that may not be readily recognizable as such to Europeans.
This thread is about Richard Spencer?