I have a long time friend from Georgia who is a very solid and loyal White advocate. I can tell he feels our dispossession and destruction on a very visceral level. Every mixed race couple, every mulatto he sees, is like a punch in the gut for him. He’s a a true knight of the White race, in the best sense.
I finally got around to asking him, apropos the murder of Eugene Terre’Blanche, “Why do Whites in hot places rely on Black labor? Does life in hot climates make Whites lazy? Are the Rebs a bunch of layabouts who can’t bring themselves to work outside? Do Whites have to live in the cold North to be invigorated to live by their own hand?”
His answer was unexpected. He said that the South is very divided by social class, and the White upper classes get a “double bonus” in hiring Black labor. They get to make poor Whites “disappear,” and they get to pay lower wages to their Black or Hispanic laborers. I am interested to hear what others have to say about this answer.
If this is the case, I urge the lower class Whites to start waging in “trade war.” Trade war is a term I heard on Reason Radio Network in a Tomislav Sunic interview with Dr. E. Christian Kopf. The quote was:
Plutocrats hate most of all a trade war.
I thought that was very profound, and I took it to mean, “an attempt by the masses to resist the plutocrats control of the economy by trading in ways with one another that does not benefit the plutocrats.”
Americans can do trade war. We have acres and acres of land that we control in the form of suburban houses. We have incredible know-how. The power is all in our hands, if we get off our asses. All the money that flows in to your community, keep as much of it in local trade as possible — farming and second hand trade and repairing things like bicycles to be as good as new and resold locally. Deflate the profits of the plutocrats, withdraw from the System. It’s an old mantra; it’s still 100% true.
With so many of us going unemployed, we need to make our own “social insurance.” Medicare, social security, pensions — GONE, baby, gone. It’s going to have to be like Russia in the 1990’s with old and young growing food at the suburban “dachas” to sell in the cities to try to make a buck.
This will be forced trade war. And there will be attempts to co-opt and enslave the productive. We must resist this. We have a strong culture of ownership and independence in this country. We will have to make the most of this cultural trait in the times that are coming.
They say the pen is mightier than the sword. I believe the silver coin and the tilled field shall be mightier than an extractive, confiscatory and violent police state.
It is good that you said these things, Kievsky. In brief: Whitey, get off your fat ass and do some useful, productive physical work.
Good stuff, Rob, as always.
“The plough is then the sword; and the tears of war will produce the daily bread for the generations to come.” – Herr Wolf
There is a real problem with Mexican & other Central American scab labor all over the Southern States, but, the situations, and cause & effect vary.
For example, in the Carolinas you might see one White union bricklayer, with seven or eight Mexican helpers. In Tennessee you might have a whole union hall of White electricians sitting on the bench, while you have Mexicans/Latinos out shitting on construction jobs, and, getting away with it. Both literally & figuratively.
Then you have external non-White scabbing too. Where foreign made non-White scab goods have replaced those made by White Americans.
I see a strong consciousness among Americans to “buy local” and “support local businesses” as a patriotic or nationalist sentiment. Business Networking International meets Fidel Castro (e.g. guerilla warfare).
Theory doesn’t work in South Africa because they have a temperate climate for the most part. In most cases the only available labor there is black and to expand a business you need to hire. Not a matter of being lazy. In some cases hiring black domestic labor also helps show them where they stand in the social order.
“Americans can do trade war. We have acres and acres of land that we control in the form of suburban houses. We have incredible know-how.”
Building a ethnic network with a cottage industry will be essential. I wonder how many whites will be willing to participate. To be honest, I get the feeling that few have an intact sense of ethnic solidarity.
Mike,
At this point it’s implicit ethnic solidarity. I do community organizing among SWPL default-liberal office-worker types. They’ll say something like “What about outreach to the single mothers and the local diverse community?” I say, “The same information that was available to me, was available to them. They aren’t here. Nobody is stopping them from showing up. If they show up, we’ll work with them, and if you want to go out and find some, by all means.”
I know quite well that what the SWPL community likes to do, isn’t shared by the diversities. It’s not necessary to be “discriminatory,” as community organizing is a self-selecting, self organizing thing.
Read up the Global Guerillas blog:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/
This guy has a very adept insight into what’s going on. I can’t wait to read his book, “Brave New War.” read through the archives of the blog. Whites are a self-organizing entity. I read it on GG; I saw it with my own eyes.
I’m very glad to see the young intellectuals find favor or new fashion with the “old ways” of our blue collar immigrant ancestors. I haven’t heard Mr. Sunic’s interview but I will indeed do so now. May I make a polite suggestion that the tools of our oppressors will be targeting the transaction itself? It’s too late to just “buy white” or just use white owned business / labor although it is still necessary whenever possible it is incomplete at this stage. We need to radically jumpstart our progress by doing things that produce wealth via our free time and special skills. This in a small degree requires suspending the strong competiveness of white men but only to our close white brother. In addition class warfare issues are arguably fanned daily by white conservative talk shows by insisting the political and social fabric is in shambles because of the lazy poor (whites and minorities included.) This is another major roadblock. Those conservatives lack the courage to face race, or even culture as causation but for now successfully pander to working whites and white business owner’s whites preventing an essential unification of poor and affluent whites to a common set of goals. Specifically with one or two of your local pro white friends assess any skilled or even just laborious tasks or projects that could save their family money and improve their future success. Do that task for your brother on a weekend or your spare time for free. Let those favors go back and forth among your group five or six times until your time has freed funds to use for the cause and bettered all your lives to a small degree. It’s got to be hard for the wife to dislike her husband’s friend that comes to her house and helps you fix things for the family. Don’t talk politics durring your visits. Hard not to find two men who don’t have some different areas of expertise that one could utilize for the other. Obviously focus on things that would improve the security, safety and economic health but anything that your brother can’t handle himself that can be accomplished with your special skills or joint effort is of great value. No transactions of money, or paperwork or even a barter agreement never! Don’t look for equity or fair exchange just do what your brother needs and expect no more. This is a jumpstart for both parties. Exchanges of money goods or barter papers are what your enemy will use to sabotage the benefits you afford one another. You might say a nontaxable “white man’s sweat equity” you invest in each other. When each of you is improved and wealth is created form a second group of affiliates and repeat. Your own life, your friend’s lives and your local white base will grow in under the radar with surety. Even six months of application would create new unity, new avenues of hope. That must take place first in every white man’s actions then we have a chance in the big arena.
p.s. C of CC networking “White helping Whites”
I don’t doubt that a White man with a little initiative could make a living washing windows, washing walls & cleaning out gutters etc. in Connecticut for Jewish investment bankers, and lawyers who work in New York City. You might give White folks, and elderly White folks in particular a discount.
SWPL?
Kievsky, your Georgia friend makes an excellent point; there is definitely a bit of class warfare going on. But there is another factor:
Culturally, if not always genetically, the South traditionally was comprised of two white groups: Cavaliers and Scots-Irish.
While most planters were not descended from the First Families of Virginia, the Cavaliers did set a cultural precent, as seen in Gone With The Wind, that lasted until the end of the Civil War. The Cavaliers were pre-moderns in their thought. As such, they emphasized hierarchy over egalitarianism. Not only was it beneath the dignity of a Southern gentleman to do manual labor, but status was gained by having no visible means of support. Discussing money and work were the big taboos in this society. Rather than stressing the work ethic, this group tended to put an emphasis on duty, which was not necessarily the same as work. Robert E. Lee is a stellar example of this value. He defended the South out of a sense of duty.
The Scots-Irish were at the opposite end of the social ladder. They were poor back in Europe, and many of them remain poor to this day. The biggest impetus for Scots-Irish migration was the Anglicization of Scotland–something many of them opposed. Prior to Anglicization, Scotland still had a herding culture, even though animal herding had been giving way to settled agriculture for some time. To herders, manual labor is also something to be avoided whenever possible. As a rancher myself, I can tell you that taking care of animals is far less work than farming. Rather, the Scots prided themselves on their fighting ability–something necessary to keep interlopers off their grazing lands.
The stereotype of the lazy Southerner has more than a little validity to it. Of course, just because these groups didn’t subscribe to the Yankee work ethic didn’t mean they did nothing. They were usually at the leading edge of westward expansion, and also developed fine whiskeys, were very much into horse racing, and music (they gave us bluegrass, modern country, as well as inventing rock and roll).
There is an excellent book on these Scots-Irish titled “Cracker Culture”. And the Genoveses wrote a masterful work on the Cavalier class titled “Mind of the Master Class”. I recommend both very highly.
Yes, there are class antagonisms in the South. But I think today this is due to the capitalist system more than any inherent trait in traditional Southern society. As Marx noted, the problem with capitalism is that labor and capital are two separate things. With slavery it was just the opposite; the elites had a vested interest in keeping their work force healthy and happy. The capitalist, on the other hand, has a vested interest in providing as little as possible to his labor force. Money that doesn’t go into their pockets goes into his own. And natural disparities in intelligence have made this predatory trend ubiquitous. As long as we’re not all equally intelligent and capable, capitalism guarantees a socialist opposition.
Interestingly, fascism came into its own to attempt to heal this rift. Of course it failed miserably. I’m not sure what the answer is. What I do know the first step to solving any problem is proper identification.
Kievsky, in my locale we have a “Buy Local First” group, but they are pretty well co-opted by the Chamber of Commerce mentality. I’m in California, and the labor resources here are swamped by legal and illegal Mexicans. The “Buy Local First” group REFUSES to extend its understanding of “Local” to hiring long-time citizens first. Basically, many of the member businesses employ a lot of “aliens”, and only want you to shop at their establishment rather than a CostCo or similar big-box place.
While the IDEA of “Buy Local First” is good, if it’s only about supporting the local merchants, who themselves have zero loyalty to their own people and will hire anything that stands up and takes orders, it won’t solve the problem. I advise staying AWAY from official groups like this. They are just in it to save their behinds, and will hire non-whites to do that. NONE of them has any racial consciousness.
Better to form “nets” of Whites — even if they’re not “awake” — and do just what you suggest. Build a new system INSIDE the husk of the corrupt one … nothing “official”, just friendly “nets”. And when will that “darknet” tech be available so we can keep accounts and create our own virtual banks?
SWPL?
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
Stuff White People Like. As an adjective it means the type of whites described by the Stuff White People Like blog. Basically youngish, left-leaning, urban-dwelling, hipster whites.
Most Southerners are descended from the people who came with the Cavaliers, but who weren’t the actual noblemen themselves. They were the servants, tenant farmers, artisans etc. who lived in the same part of South Western England. There were also a smattering of people from other parts of England who were not connected to that culture and a few people from other Western European countries.
The “Scotts-Irish” were from the border area between England and Scotland. Many were ethnically English. Scottish people are mix of indigenous Picts, Irish, Saxons and Norwegian vikings. The Highlands are heavily Irish descended — the word Scotland derives from the name of the Irish tribe that once conquered the area. The lowland area is more Saxon/English ancestry. The “Irish” part of “Scotts-Irish” is because many of them were sent as settlers to Northern Ireland by the crown before coming to America. They aren’t ethnically Irish except to the extent that they are descended from the Irish invaders of Scotland hundreds of years earlier. Names that start with “Mac” or “Mc” indicate ancestry from the Irish at some point. The modern Ulster Protestants are largely same ethnic group as American Scotts-Irish.
OR,
You need to use the apparatus of the “buy local” organizations in order to find the people with that attitude in the first place.
I have found that people self-organize very easily, and bypass the crooks and brown-labor-employers.
I use an anti-slavery attitude to decry hiring brown people. I just say, “They just want to pay less, that’s why they hired the illegal alien.” Or even, “I heard he likes to hire illegal aliens because he doesn’t pay them.”
Heck, if you really wanted to get someone like that, you hire a Mexican (LOL) to say that he worked for X person, and X didn’t pay him! Now that’s the one time I’d actually hire a Mexican! LOL
People who are interested in Scots-Irish culture will like this blog:
http://www.backcountrynotes.com/
You know, I have often gotten the impression that the old money in this state, Virginia, holds more adoration for the negro then for their lower class kin. My great-grandparents were dirt poor share croppers and my blood runs all the way back to the revolution on one side of the family. I am 3/4 Scottish/English and 1/4 Eastern European. The 1/4 stands out and I am a little darker than my brother who has blue eyes and blond hair, while I have brown eyes and brown hair. I have often noticed the different treatment I get from strangers than he does. Maybe it is due to my personality, but I am lower class and the Randolphs around here know it. Meanwhile they will fawn all over any Negro that has a suit on. Maybe they feel the Negro, being a pure stock, is better than us low class mixed eurotrash.
Kievsky’s ideas all on-target. But do not for a moment believe that ZOG is going to allow this sort of “peaceful” economic secession once it passes a certain threshhold. Just today, in something I have never seen before, 5 army attack helicopters – from a base about 60 miles down the coast – were practicing low strafing passes over my town. They know what’s coming; at some point we will have to stand up and fight, not just network and grow vegetables. That’s why the various state secession movements, which I once opposed, are going to be critical: when a state breaks away from ZOG, National Guard units and heavy weapons – everything from morters to A-10s to heat-seekers – go with it.
And Dunneyveg: European Fascism did not “fail miserably”. Its 1930s economic success in reconciling the conflicts between capital and labor threatened both the Capitalist plutocracies (Britain, France, US) and the State-Socialist bureaucracy (Russian Red Empire); so the Plutocrats and Reds joined hands, re-created the pre-1914 encirclement, and arranged another round of the 20th century world war in order to take down Fascism. Heydrich in Prague, 1941-42, is a case study. He so successfully administered and modernized the Czech economy that this “most hated and feared man in Europe” won over the population; was able to motor around the city in an open car with zero security. And then murdered by a death squad sent in by Churchill.
Everyone I know in the South works or spends time outdoors.
Primogeniture as practiced in England, meant that the oldest male child got the title and the property, the next eldest the church appointment, the third child the military, and the younger children got bus fare to America. (I’m kidding about “bus fare”, but, they got their passage to America paid for maybe.)
If you read the history of the Virginia colony, you realize how hard the colonists worked, and how dangerous colonial Virginia was for them. Disease, indians, the Spaniards, the French, crop failure & starvation, you name it, and you couldn’t run out to Wal-Mart or Target if you needed something.
And when the early settlers did have a problem with the elite, and their policies you had bloody revolts like Bacon’s Rebellion in Virginia, or the Regulators in North Carolina
My Virginia ancestors came to America from Cornwall. My Pennsylvania Dutch ancestors were among the first to pioneer the Shenandoah Valley.
“Most Southerners are descended from the people who came with the Cavaliers, but who weren’t the actual noblemen themselves.”
This is simply not true. The Cavaliers themselves were mostly younger sons of the landholding aristocracy who stood to inherit nothing back home. For services rendered to King Charles, they were rewarded with large land parcels in Virginia. It has to be repeated: Most planters were NOT members or descendants of this very specific group. What the Cavaliers did was set a cultural precedent for plantation culture.
This group was exclusively from the area between London and Wales, the last bastion of feudalism in England. Granted, there were people from other parts of England. They just weren’t Cavaliers.
Commoners came with this group, but they weren’t Cavaliers.
I also disagree that most Southerners were descended from the Cavaliers. Very few of them were.
“Many were ethnically English.”
I would agree had you said politically English. I think this is a statement that can’t be proved or disproved. Since that border shifted according to the fortunes of war, political and ethnic affiliation are two different matters. You shouldn’t confuse them.
Besides, a good many Scots Irish were lowlanders. There were even some highlanders and island Scots, my family among them.
You are also confused on the Highlanders. Until late, they identified with neither Scotland nor Ireland. They identified with their clan. My family owned lands in both Scotland, the Hebrides, and Ulster. Modern national boundaries are just that: modern.
If I made any errors, you haven’t shown it.
European Fascism did not “fail miserably”
Fascist, I’m not even sure how to respond to such a statement. By 1945 fascism was literally pounded to smithereens; there were only smoking ruins. Don’t you think it’s a bit of a stretch to call it anything other than a failure?
But let me take your point a little more loosely. Fascism spoke of reconciling class differences and replacing them with racial or nationalist solidarity. And fascism’s popularity in the pre-war years waxed and waned.
I’m not a big fan of Paxton’s work on fascism. But I think he makes an excellent point when he writes of fascism “burning hot”. In other words fascism was a high energy movement that couldn’t be anything other than capitalist in structure to provide the necessary funding.
It’s not only wars. Both Hitler and Mussolini had rather grandiose architectural ambitions, largely unrealized, but expensive nonetheless.
Exactly, Hunter. All Southern Whites I know have a good work ethic. I do all my own work, when I do hire someone I hire white and make sure the guy’s crew is white as well.
What I’ve found though is typically white guys will charge you a lot more, ripping you off for half-ass work anyway. When you hire blacks and Mexicans they’re a lot cheaper. I have to wade through a lot of con artists and assholes, but I eventually find a good ol’ boy that does decent work for a fair wage.
I consider Mike Holmes of a Holmes on Homes a blue-collar hero. It’s a shame guys like him are almost non-existent. He goes around and fixes houses that other whites, in a cold climate mind you, apparently were too lazy and crooked to do right.
That’s the appeal, there’s no conspiracy or class war needed. Why did a contractor I know hire a black man to do work? Does he hate lower-class white people, is he lazy? No, the black guy works really cheap and the contractor can talk to him like a dog with no consequences. Whites talk back and want more money. Same reason we outsource so much now, there’s little or no regulation in Asia and the labor is dirt-cheap. It’s purely greed and taking advantage of others.
“Don’t you think it’s a bit of a stretch to call it anything other than a failure?”
Let’s say you have a toaster that works great, that is until I smash it with a sledgehammer. No, that doesn’t mean that your toaster was defective, it just means I smashed it and now it doesn’t work any more. Shithead.
Okay, with the foul name you convinced me. Fascism was a roaring, raging success. And the whole world needs to be goose stepping. Happy now?
Go get yourself a twinkie and a glass of warm milk. I think it’s past your bedtime.
I’m a builder and I see what’s happening in the trades. Lots of white contractors hire Mexicans in order to make a bigger profit. They also like the sense of being the ‘El Hefe’. Like Mark pointed out, “…Why did a contractor I know hire a black man to do work? Does he hate lower-class white people, is he lazy? No, the black guy works really cheap and the contractor can talk to him like a dog with no consequences. Whites talk back and want more money.” That’s very true. Every white man wants to be king. We demand respect. That is a good thing IF it’s coupled with a strong work ethic and giving real value for money. Quality is the best advertising there is. But most whites have bought into the ‘get ahead, make money’ game and exploit fellow whites for profit. Only a renewed sense of racial solidarity will change that. From time to time when I need help I hire some young local white carpenters that are racially aware. I pay them well, treat them right and talk racial awareness when the time is right. Who was it that said “Be the change you want to see” ? Treat your kinsmen right!
“Many were ethnically English.”
I would agree had you said politically English. I think this is a statement that can’t be proved or disproved. Since that border shifted according to the fortunes of war, political and ethnic affiliation are two different matters. You shouldn’t confuse them.
Besides, a good many Scots Irish were lowlanders. There were even some highlanders and island Scots, my family among them.
This is largely correct, Matt.
Most American southerners are ethnically Scots-Irish rather than ‘Anglo-Saxon’ English — or are descended from the more western parts of England and Wales (like ‘Tom Watson’ saying his family was from Cornwall).
Let us also never forget that the continental Germanic ‘Anglo-Norman’ invasions of England and the British Isles upended much of the social order and kin networks in these countries — leaving much of the indigenous British population having to look for new and different ways to provide and fend for themselves.
“Most American southerners are ethnically Scots-Irish rather than ‘Anglo-Saxon’ English — or are descended from the more western parts of England and Wales (like ‘Tom Watson’ saying his family was from Cornwall).”
Yes, McWhiney claims that the South was a “cracker”, or Celtic culture, composed largely of Celts. He provides interesting anecdotes but no firm figures or maps showing settlement patterns. Have you seen such things?
Yes, McWhiney claims that the South was a “cracker”, or Celtic culture, composed largely of Celts. He provides interesting anecdotes but no firm figures or maps showing settlement patterns. Have you seen such things?
Matt,
Yes, absolutely.
One of the best books on this subject is Albion’s Seed, by David Hackett Fisher (I believe that’s his name), where he says that the British Isles and much of the settlement of America has been pioneered by different peoples. or at least different British ethnic groups.
Far from being homogeneous, Britain, and even England are in fact quite diverse, with the ‘Anglo-Saxon’ types (or at least those with the most continental Germanic ancestry) being higher in the social and cultural order than the more indigenous Celtic types (or at least those with the most British or Celtic ancestry).
Part of the reason why this was never better understood is the fact that most people wish to identify themselves with the conquerers, rather than the conquered, hence adopt the cultural and racial identity of the tribes in charge — regardless of the fact they may have actually little in common with them.
Yes, Fischer wrote a lot of good stuff on migration and settlement patterns. But it was primarily for the Scots-Irish, though he does give Germans some attention.
McWhiney agrees with you. Celts from all over settled in the South. I’m just curious about who settled where, assuming they settled in discernible patterns. For instance, generally speaking the Germans and Scots-Irish freely intermingled, with the Scots-Irish redneck culture prevailing most places. But I think that depends on numbers. Austin and environs are by far the most liberal part of Texas (the part of Texas that gave the country LBJ). This has always been the case, as this area was predominantly German during Texas’ formative years. As with the Cavaliers, the Germans in Austin set a cultural precedent that persists to this day.
Why the photo of the seemingly industrious, congenial black youths Kievsky? It almost pulled at my heart strings, until I remembered reality. It doesn’t seem to fit with your post, which I agree with, viz. that Whites ought develop an active intracommunal economy. Down with unequal protection under the law! Down with anti-white racism!
Great post, Kievsky. The desire for cheap labor has been one of the biggest causes of our racial problems throughout history, whether it has been blacks in South Africa and the American South, Asians in the Western United States in the 19th century, Turks in post-World War II Germany, Caribbeans and South Asians in post-World War II Britain, or Hispanics in the United States today. It is difficult to overstate the damage the desire for cheap labor has done.
When they were still in control, whites in South Africa ought to have carved a white enclave (which absolutely forbade the use of black labor) out of part of South Africa instead of adhering to apartheid and trying to maintain control over all of South Africa. Separation and a white ethnostate, not supremacism, are the only solution.
http://racehist.blogspot.com/2008/04/celtic-southern-myth.html
Here is a post by n/a on the myth of the Celtic South.
The post links to a chapter from A Century of Population Growth, which contains the following data:
Table 45 – Percent distribution of the white population of each state according to nationality as indicated by names of heads of families: 1790
Maine
English 93.1
Scotch 4.3
Irish 1.4
Dutch 0.3
New Hampshire
English 94.1
Scotch 4.7
Irish 1.0
Dutch 0.1
Vermont
English 85.4
Scotch 3.0
Irish 0.7
Dutch 0.5
Massachusetts
English 95.0
Scotch 3.6
Irish 1.0
Dutch 0.1
Rhode Island
English 96.0
Scotch 3.1
Irish 0.7
Dutch –
Connecticut
English 96.2
Scotch 2.8
Irish 0.7
Dutch 0.1
New York
English 78.2
Scotch 3.2
Irish 0.7
Dutch 16.1
Pennsylvania
English 59.0
Scotch 11.7
Irish 2.0
Dutch 0.6
German 26.1
Maryland
English 84.0
Scotch 6.5
Irish 2.4
Dutch 0.1
German 5.9
Virginia
English 85.0
Scotch 7.1
Irish 2.0
Dutch 0.2
German 4.9
North Carolina
English 83.1
Scotch 11.2
Irish 2.3
Dutch 0.2
German 2.8
South Carolina
English 82.4
Scotch 11.7
Irish 2.6
Dutch 0.2
French 1.3
German 1.7
Table 47 – Computed distribution of the white population for each state for which schedules are missing, according to nationality: 1790
New Jersey
English 58.0
Scotch 7.7
Irish 7.1
Dutch 12.7
French 2.1
German 9.2
Delaware
English 86.3
Scotch 7.5
Irish 3.0
Dutch 1.0
Georgia
English 83.1
Scotch 11.2
Irish 2.3
Dutch 0.2
German 2.8
Kentucky
English 83.1
Scotch 11.2
Irish 2.3
Dutch 0.2
German 2.8
Tennessee
English 83.1
Scotch 11.2
Irish 2.3
Dutch 0.2
German 2.8
Table 48 – Number and per cent distribution of the white population according to nationality: 1790
Total
English 82.1
Scotch 7.0
Irish 1.9
Dutch 2.5
French 0.6
German 5.6
All other 0.3
Very good Wallace, and Captainchaos. One big arm of propaganda directed against the South during the CW was the idiocy that Southern aristocrats didn’t do any labor. Just sat around all day drinking tea. Kievsky, from Massachusetts, buys this, of course, 150 years later.
He doesn’t buy similar crap said about Germans though.
As Hunter has explained, Mr. Kievsky, the South seceded because of the election of Abraham Lincoln – the Obongo of his day, but in a day when men (in the South at least) weren’t filled with class warfare prop and such. They simply wanted, as their aristocrats wanted, honest government of and by White men. And they all recognized Lincoln as representing anti-White interests, regardless of his election-time rhetoric. Had any thought him sincere, there would have been no secession.
Sorry Mr. Kievsky, but the child labor and the foul working conditions happened more in Boston than in Atlanta. A much better example of class warfare.
Not that they’re not all Amerikwans now.
32MGLS – “When they were still in control, whites in South Africa ought to have carved a white enclave (which absolutely forbade the use of black labor) out of part of South Africa instead of adhering to apartheid and trying to maintain control over all of South Africa.”
Actually, Apartheid was supposed to spin off the black sectors into separate homelands in the interest of securing racial separation. Unfortunately, the SA government dragged its feet and the vision of Apartheid was never realized.
http://vanishingamerican.blogspot.com/2007/04/choice-grain-into-wilderness-our.html
From a post by Vanishing American, here is a paragraph in which she discussed the “Celtic South” conjecture:
I have old stock Southern ancestry on my mother’s side, and, consistent with VA’s study of the genealogy of Southern families, the surnames of my Southern ancestors were overwhelmingly English.
34Alfred Rosenberg
Very good Wallace, and Captainchaos. One big arm of propaganda directed against the South during the CW was the idiocy that Southern aristocrats didn’t do any labor. Just sat around all day drinking tea. Kievsky, from Massachusetts, buys this, of course, 150 years later.
He doesn’t buy similar crap said about Germans though.
Well said, Alfred. There’s obviously some bias and ignorance there.
@28
This Cornwall is Celtic is a fairly recent spin in my opinion, to inspire the tourist trade. Now Wales is a different story.
Hunter,
I’m glad to hear that every Southerner you know works outside. Good for them. Outside work gives you more testoserone and prevents depression, and if you’re working outside, then some Mexican or Negro is not doing your job.
As for Alfred Rosenberg and Mark, we have selective nit-picking and wilful misinterpretation of my post. I broached the question, “Do hot climates make white people lazy and reliant on colored labor?” I posed this reasonable question apropos to the discovery that Eugene Terre’Blanche used Black labor. It’s a reasonable question. We certainly see a difference in racial attitudes from North and South, with the South having a more paternalistic, “supremacist” view, while Northerners would prefer to have nothing to do with blacks at all, and not even see them from a distance.
The bad faith comments pretend that I accused White Southerners of being lazy. The next paragraph down, I conveyed the answer from my friend from Georgia, who said that rich Whites prefer to hire Blacks than Whites, and hate poor Whites. Commenter “Another Wallace” seconded this view. It’s a perfectly reasonable discussion, because too many Whites are STILL using colored labor, moreso in hotter climates. Don’t get your petticoats in a bunch, southron avengerettes Rosenberg and Mark. This is a warning — selective and malicious interpretations of posts will get your comments deleted.
MGLS:
I’m guessing your numbers came from the census. Right now I’m digging through Fischer’s “Albion’s Seed”. I haven’t found numbers yet (I’ll look some more when I get the time), but I did find the following passage referring to the Scots-Irish:
“The appearance of these [Scots Irish] in the streets of Philadelphia marked the start of yet another great folk migration from Britain to America. The magnitude of this movement was very large–more than a quarter-million people altogether. This was truly a mass migration, on a scale altogether different from the movements that had preceded it.” (p. 606)
As a previous poster noted, some who came with the Scots-Irish migration were English, but not many. (Few English opted to migrate to the Ulster Plantation, which is prerequisite to be considered part of this group.) So, the majority of the Scots-Irish were Scots. I’m curious as to why their large numbers weren’t more accurately reflected in the 1790 Census.
Though I’m sure he’s not perfect, Fischer has a fine reputation as an historian. So, I’m sure he took a look at the census numbers. I’m curious as to whether he mentions this contradiction.
I do know that in-migration numbers in colonial times were tallied largely from entry records, which if anything would have under-reported the numbers. Of course, the same is true with the census. My speculation: so many of the Scots-Irish lived in serious backwoods, if not the frontier, it’s possible that their numbers were substantially under-counted. It’s also worth noting that these early rednecks were even more averse to government meddling than their modern counterparts. I’ll do some more reading when I get the chance.
MGLS, No. 36:
There were two distinct major white Southern cultures: Gone With The Wind eulogized the old Cavalier culture; and The Beverly Hillbillies caricatured the Celtic, or Scots-Irish, culture.
I do think more of the Celtic culture has survived to this day than Cavalier culture for several reasons: First, the Cavalier culture was upper class culture–an upper class that was soundly defeated, and has been demonized ever since. Since today the upper class tends to be leftist, and utterly horrified by this culture, it no longer has much of a niche.
It is the less educated Southerners who have drank the least PC poison, and have most resisted it. Therefore, I think the Celtic elements predominate in modern Southern culture with one serious qualification.
Cavalier culture situated itself where there were rich soils–something far from universal in the South. The Scots-Irish tended to inhabit the mountains and large swathes of piney woods. It is also the case that the further west one goes, the more the Scots-Irish elements predominate. In Texas there was very little of the planter culture. But go to, say, Savannah, GA, and there are still elements of that old plantation culture surviving.
My point is I think that the genetic and ethnic makeup of the South is different in different areas.
McWhiney tends to discount planter culture almost completely, and the Genoveses (by far the better historians) tend to discount the Celtic elements.
Kievsky, No. 39:
A few thoughts on Southerners and the work ethic:
The historian, McWhiney, that we have been discussing does make the case that Southerners were very lazy. That case can be made. My considered opinion is that this is hyperbole. The grain of truth in this hyperbole is that Southerners, neither Cavalier nor Celt, subscribed to the vaunted Puritan work ethic, or work for its own sake. In fact, in late antebellum times, Yankees were bitterly denounced as “money grubbers” who cared for nothing else.
Rather than being lazy, I think Southerners had a more balanced perspective toward life. It should be remembered that the before Jewish influence became total, the South supplied the nation with its music and much of its art. Southerners also tended to stress for duties, such as religion and family.
The Southerner will work when he has to, but he’d almost always rather be out hunting or fishing, or even drinking and gambling.
Yankees tended to live to work; Southerners tended to work to live.
The title reminds me of an old joke.
“Black labor, it would be a good idea.”
But, we don’t have much of a problem with it here, in Oregon. The Welfare State has raised up an entire alternate society of welfare, section 8 housing, drug-dealing baby daddies, food stamps, short term housing loans, work stipends, community college grants, woman and children in need programs, community centers, Oregon-plan healthcare, state ‘parenting classes’, and on, and on.
Kecia’s grandfather, Dog, was a plumber. He worked until he was 70, and died shortly there after. He drank vodka, straight no chaser, but not until 4pm. He did mostly upgrade plumbing in the black lower-middle class neighborhood he lived in. Sometimes new construction. As far as I know he didn’t ever go on welfare. He disliked white people as a habit, he had come from the South to work in munitions factories in Portland in WW2.
His children include two males and two females. Three of the four have been to prison, one for pimping, one for domestic abuse, one for drugs. The daughter who hasn’t been to prison is a quiet pill head, who still manages to keep a small local business afloat.
His grandchildren include one who had a baby at 15 and is on mentadone maintenance at age 30, one who is a 25 year old streetwalker and junkie.
One would think that a culture this decrepit would fail, but it doesn’t. The State provides the guidance needed to keep it all working. The PoPo (Portland Police) are an everyday part of life, because they are needed to sort out basic interpersonal relationships between the mutiple generations of drugged out, un-educated, low impulse control groups in these ghettos.
There is no shortage of children among them, Dog’s great grandkids number in the dozens. The neigborhood is bustling with kids of every age. 15 is breeding age in the hood. Nothing much is thought of it. Grandmothers were raised by their grandmothers, it’s a tradition.
Work? Black labor. It’s a good idea, but elusive. Mostly a thing of the the past. Dog’s generation.
A close friend and I sit enjoying a beer in the back room of a local bar. A History Channel show on the Civil War era is on. A droning northern-accented voice mumbles something about the evils of slavery while the camera does a slow pan over an old sepia-toned photos of black people in the fields. Neither of us is really watching it, but our conversation has fallen into a lul.
“Well, at least they are working”, he remarks.
Since I’m not a Southerner there’s probably not much I can add. If what your friend says is true that means the unspoken racial consciousness and solidarity that HW believes exists among Southern whites is just an illusion. The South will never rise again if upper class whites in that region have no loyalty to their less fortunate kinsmen. It would seem they still retain the plantation mentality.
The affluent class in the North certainly isn’t much better as fair number of them, too, hold lower class whites in disdain. They will use “white trash” and “redneck” like it’s going out of style yet utter the word nigger in their presence and their jaws will drop to the ground.
If what your friend says is true that means the unspoken racial consciousness and solidarity that HW believes exists among Southern whites is just an illusion. The South will never rise again if upper class whites in that region have no loyalty to their less fortunate kinsmen. It would seem they still retain the plantation mentality.
That’s because it’s not true. There will always be a bit of class division and snobbery, but the racial consciousness is certainly there.
The affluent class in the North certainly isn’t much better as fair number of them, too, hold lower class whites in disdain. They will use “white trash” and “redneck” like it’s going out of style yet utter the word nigger in their presence and their jaws will drop to the ground.
They’re not much better, they’re much worse. As you pointed out they revel in hating Southerners, mocking the accent, and in general disrespecting them. While at the same time pandering to blacks. It’s really some of the most disgusting behavior I’ve ever seen.
The title reminds me of an old joke.
“Black labor, it would be a good idea.”
There’s a saying in the South, “If I’d known it was going to end up like this, I’d have picked my own damn cotton.”
A very important meme to spread is that Whites could have had all that welfare too. We could easily have descended into what Jackson @43 describes, but we elected not to. We elected to work.
It’s going to be very difficult for the welfare class, when the welfare gets cut off. The concept of “looking for a job, any job,” is already alien to them. They will go straight from welfare, to “hunter-raider-looter,” and probably unsuccessful hunter-raider-looters at that, given how well armed Americans are.
The left wing has done the most damage to the black race in the past 50 years. The most extreme Negro-hater couldn’t accomplish in a million years, what Lyndon Johnson and an army of well paid, self righteous liberals handily achieved with the (not so) “great society.”
“Why do Whites in hot places rely on Black labor? Does life in hot climates make Whites lazy? Are the Rebs a bunch of layabouts who can’t bring themselves to work outside? Do Whites have to live in the cold North to be invigorated to live by their own hand?”
Questions in good faith? You’re being misrepresented? Those questions are loaded with gross generalizations and proceed from negative caricatures. It’s similar to something you’d hear in the MSM.
It’s a perfectly reasonable discussion, because too many Whites are STILL using colored labor, moreso in hotter climates. Don’t get your petticoats in a bunch, southron avengerettes Rosenberg and Mark. This is a warning — selective and malicious interpretations of posts will get your comments deleted.
That’s right, too many Whites, it’s a worldwide problem.
It would be a reasonable discussion without the disrespect. You can dish it out but can’t take it, is that it? Does the phrase “a Jew cries out as he strikes you” ring a bell?
If Yankee Doodle doesn’t get his way then he’ll delete your comments.
@44 Mr. Dithers
“The affluent class in the North certainly isn’t much better as fair number of them, too, hold lower class whites in disdain. They will use “white trash” and “redneck” like it’s going out of style yet utter the word nigger in their presence and their jaws will drop to the ground.”
Its the same with the affluent class here in Virginia. Maybe it is due to carpetbagging but it is here as well.
@ 47 Kievsky
“The left wing has done the most damage to the black race in the past 50 years. The most extreme Negro-hater couldn’t accomplish in a million years, what Lyndon Johnson and an army of well paid, self righteous liberals handily achieved with the (not so) “great society.””
The elite hate us, like the British were to the Scots, they want to bread us out. Why else would they give special protections and rights to everyone but white males? They knew that their offspring would not be subjected to the consequences because they could afford to pay to avoid it. Where as the elite really do secretly care if their kids marry outside the race, they don’t care if all us white trash, redneck, hillbilly, Bible clinging gun toters get mixed into that DAMN melting pot into a light brown degenerate working class.
If our elite “kin” really gave a damn about us, they would, AND COULD, fix it. But they don’t, and they are not going to. So we will continue to see more and more of us at the unemployment line and more and more of “them” in the jobs we just lost.
I should add that the elite whites I refer to in my post are most always Democrats and/or supported Obama. Just goes to show how tolerant the political left is towards lower middle class and poor whites. Hope and change indeed.