I recognize that I am opening up a can of worms with this post.
The sex/gender related posts tend to generate more controversy and responses than any other topic. But this is an important subject. It is worthy of further exploration.
In the past, I have been cynical about women, not because I am a misogynist per se, but because the Sexual Revolution of the 1970s has drastically narrowed the pool of attractive mates.
American women tend to ruin themselves these days. There are fewer incentives than ever before for a man to settle down with one woman. Marriages don’t last. Divorces can cripple a man financially. It is harder than ever before to raise children in this degenerate culture.
Here’s reality as it exists: what American man wants to settle down with an American woman who has slept with 15+ other guys, who is going to divorce him in four or five years, who is going to take all his money, who has an insolent, self-centered attitude, who doesn’t have the personality required for marriage and childrearing?
Before I go any further, I want to emphasize that I am not talking about women in general, but a socially and historically situated problem that afflicts contemporary American men. The peculiar conditions that modern men are facing are unique to our own times:
– Previous generations enforced strong taboos against frivolous sex. “Loose women” were shunned. “Cads” were frowned upon. Both were stigmatized with bad reputations in their communities. Neither men or women had as many sexual partners as they do today.
– The man used to be recognized as the head of the household. He was a provider. Men didn’t have to compete against the federal government. Women were never represented in the workforce to the extent they are today. They were not idle housewives, but they were not the primary “breadwinners” either.
– Abortion used to be illegal. Previous generations never had access to the methods of modern birth control.
– Previous generations of American women were not brainwashed 24/7 by film and television. Trashy celebrities were not role models. Feminism wasn’t glorified in our culture.
In so many words, the sexual landscape in America has changed dramatically since the 1970s, and this has implications for White Nationalism. The typical White Nationalist clings to the traditional sexual ideal which has become antiquated in contemporary social conditions.
The disconnect between this ideal and reality has been a source of frustration for countless White Nationalist men. There is no consensus among White Nationalists as to what to do about it.
The available options are as follows: forced celibacy, holding out for the right woman, adapting to the sexual marketplace. The latter two options are the most popular.
I’m only vaguely familiar with Roissysphere terminology. I have learned of these concepts second hand through friends who follow Roissy and the Men’s Rights community.
Alphas are men who sleep with lots of women, who are naturally attractive to women, and who can have any woman they desire; Betas are men who are less attractive to women, who pick one woman and have children, and who are the stable household providers; Gammas/Omegas are frustrated men who are not attractive to women and who don’t have any sexual partners.
Traditional American culture used to privilege the Betas. Alpha behavior was punished by an elaborate sexual code of courtship. There were enough women to go around for all but the biggest losers. The typical man ended up with the typical woman.
That’s no longer the case.
The majority of my male friends are married and divorced. Only a minority of them remain happily married. Most say they would never remarry after going through the crushing experience.
As for the women I know, the majority of them always deliberately choose the wrong man and end up pregnant and divorced within a few years. When they are young, they run through men like a deck of cards. Later, they age and become less attractive, and finally grow bitter when they find men are no longer interested in them.
The people I know who are happily married with children are the exception to the rule. In such an environment, it makes sense to be cynical White Nationalist male, and that attitude can persist until the unexpected happens.
So why bring all this up?
What happens when a White Nationalist beta male finally does meet an ordinary, traditional woman who is worthy of more than just passing sexual interest?
9 times out of 10 this doesn’t happen: most American women are some combination of slutty, crazy, dumb, boring, frivolous, self-centered, etc. Sound familiar?
You know what to expect. You know what you are dealing with. You know how far a relationship can go (i.e., don’t get married, don’t get her pregnant, don’t get attached) when you are dating one of these types.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. For every ten women you date, one or two might be worth entertaining thoughts you wouldn’t normally consider.
The danger here is obvious: the Beta instinct is to pedestal and romanticize the woman, fall in love, lose control of his emotions, come on strong, needless to say, the consequences of which can be disastrous.
In such a situation, it would be wise to get a second opinion, maybe even a third opinion. So you introduce your friends to the woman in question. They agree that she is smart, pretty, respectable, and wholesome, not cut from the same cloth as other girls, everything you are looking for in a serious relationship.
You get the all clear.
How do you shift gears though? How do you go from adapting to the sexual marketplace to finding a worthy mate and getting into a serious relationship? It is like the difference between flying and landing.
There are ordinary, traditional women still out there. They are fewer in number, but still exist. What do you do when you meet one?
Despite all the whining, wailing, and crying about how “Nordicists” are supposedly obsessed with the topic and supposedly bring it up all the time, the reality is exactly the opposite.
Not “Nordicists”. Just you, and Mark though he is petering out of late. For someone into WN, you certainly have a way of destroying threads.
I have shown that the debates about “Nordicism” on this blog are overwhelmingly started by attacks against Northern Europeans or “WASPs.”
No you haven’t. You have given your “take” on what occurred in previous threads. You insert your hobby horse into these threads at the mere mention of anything inter-European. One can discuss issues without having to read your cut and paste jobs from MG or LS or anyone else.
@ “Reginald Thompson is correct. There is no evidence for this.”
I stand corrected. I don’t know where did I get the idea (Stoddard?) that centuries ago the Greeks misigenated with Muslims from North Africa. Next time I will be more careful with my comments.
@ If you want to know what the word fitness ACTUALLY means, look up the works of Charles Darwin and William Hamilton.
I acknowledge that I tried to conflate two distinct fields of scientific research into a peculiar phrase and that this latitude wouldn’t be accepted in an academic definition of fitness. Still, and independently of these weak parts of my argument, I believe that my main argument stands: that we should have the archetype of a sort of Aryan Abraham as the real “alpha” male instead of the promiscuous Casanova, who invested nothing in a traditional family and this resulted in his pathetic old age with no descendants who took care for the old hermit. (This should have been the subject of the debate in this thread, and leave the Nordish debate for the forum.)
@ Readers and moderators should note that this debate began with a comment by Chechar (a Mexican, not a Northern European)…
I was born in Mexico but my last name, and phenotype, is French. As some of you have already guessed, some white Mexicans are so fed up of the Amerindians here down the south that our pro-whiteness almost put Stormfront to shame.
Whenever I hear the terms “alpha” and “beta”, with regards to men, I cringe. I don’t know why the permiscuous males are labled as being “alpha”, while the family-oriented ones are “betas”. This implies that the alphas are superior. The “alphas” display immoral behavior, and are, therefore, less respectable. By definition, the women that the alphas are sleeping with are not the most desirable women, because they are sluts. The monogomous man that selects a respectable and family-oriented women is surely more respectable than the irresponsible whoremonger.
I agree with the author, however, with the causes of the problem (the breakup of the traditional family). The media, feminism, the gay rights movement, and divorce laws all serve to attack the family. I believe that these attacks are deliberate, having the common goal of destroying the family.
1. Whenever I hear the terms “alpha” and “beta”, with regards to men, I cringe. I don’t know why the promiscuous males are labeled as being “alpha”, while the family-oriented ones are “betas”. This implies that the alphas are superior. The “alphas” display immoral behavior, and are, therefore, less respectable. By definition, the women that the alphas are sleeping with are not the most desirable women, because they are sluts. The monogamous man that selects a respectable and family-oriented women is surely more respectable than the irresponsible whoremonger.
I agree with the author, however, with the causes of the problem (the breakup of the traditional family). The media, feminism, the gay rights movement, and divorce laws all serve to attack the family. I believe that these attacks are deliberate, having the common goal of destroying the family.
agree 1,000% !!
I understand this is a really old post but I have to comment. Just the other day I was looking at my four year old daughter and with sadness I said to myself, “Who is she going to marry when she grows up?”. Finding responsible, racially aware men (who aren’t violent skinhead types), who even have the mentality of a “provider” are impossible to find. A lot of women want strong men to lead the way. I think if there were more traditional men, that more women would follow. Women seem to do as what they feel that men want.
So, you can say all day long that traditional women are hard to find, but as a woman, I know for a fact that traditional men are just as rare.
My husband and I are agnostic but sometimes I wonder if the only suitable men that will even come close to our standards might be the mormons in our neighborhood. They are taught to be providers and want large families. That might be our daughter’s only hope (in about 15 years!).
HEAR, HEAR!!! YES women would SOOO follow traditional men if they were still around!!! so true!!!!
I don’t think the situation is so bad today, though far worse than 50s, but females “reputation” is still important. like Buchanan said, it’s not everything, but it’s certainly not nothing.”
I believe most woman before 60s sex revolution were virgin before marriage, even those who later became sluts after they divorced their first husbands…. spock, you are silly and crazy..you can apply to CIA revisionist center ….as a spittoon cleaner..
Whenever I hear the terms “alpha” and “beta”, with regards to men, I cringe. I don’t know why the promiscuous males are labeled as being “alpha”, while the family-oriented ones are “betas”. This implies that the alphas are superior. The “alphas” display immoral behavior, and are, therefore, less respectable.
It’s nonsense. It’s just a clever scam by sociopathic males to legitimize their misbehavior.
That would make Hitler, America’s forefathers and many great men of history “beta.” It’s a false dichotomy.
If there ever were alphas, they were born into positions of privilege (royalty). Today, there are deadbeat guys who have kids with multiple deadbeat women. Is that what we should consider “alpha”?
Trainspotter:His schtick is the same thing that we see out of Hollywood, always trying to paint the “good old days” as in fact the bad old days.
I’m curious what do you think about the british film”Trainspotting”,isn’t it loaded with sex drug and degnerate art?
actually there is a british film called “the land girls” about three girls, 1 is a slut acting like a slut 2 is a virgin trying to be a slut. 3 is a “faithful” girlfriend” who fails not to be a slut….
sorry, forgot a strong info, “the land girls ” is set in WW II.
so, it’s not just hollywood. there are good examples to show hollywood is “conservative” compared to euro trash arthouse..
I’m divorced of 4 years – ex husband initated, we grew apart, he disliked our children(took too much away from him and his time – now likes them because they are the only people who give him the time of day), he disliked me eventually, he wanted to sow the oats he never got to (since divorcing he has found out he is ot a hot commodity – frankly he never was – just a nice average guy that women don’t fall all over but thinks they should – reality can really suck), and blah, blah, blah. I am glad we are divorced. However wanted to make it clear that men do initiate divorce. Also want to make it clear that I only received child support, didn’t do alimony as I have stayed employed (a must for women in today’s modern divorce world that people feel if they are unhappy divorce to get that way – also a must in today’s world of men who do not want to treat a women as they want to be treated – yes, I think women should divorce if they are with a thug with double standards – living double standards sucks). No woman wants a slut man regardless of how men want to view it as they are a stud – those double standards only work among the same gender but create resentment, distance, bitterness etc. Have your double standards but realize it is the road to an divorce ending – this is gender neutral.
Forward, I have met all my dates through match.com. All the men can not get off match.com when our relationship moves to a more serious nature (even when they have asked me to marry them). Frankly, this is why we have the culture we do – which is keep your eyes open for something better. Why would anyone – male or female – tolerate such poor behavior towards yourself? That is why the sexual revolution was necessary. Men started it and as a women, we have to find a smarter way to engage (protect ourself) in the game. All men that I have dated have felt that they are superior to everyone and loyal, neither of which has been true. They are match shopping until the next better thing comes along. Which I am ok with, I understand the game. Men need to understand the result’s/reaction – women won’t be faithful either and won’t mind replaciing you either. It is the culture that men have created and are now whining about. Do you know how to stop it? Zip your pants and show you have morals and that you won’t be with women who don’t. The problem is people lie then and this is gender nutral – all the men I have dated don’t think some things are lies. So … in America we are a lying deceitful sluty nation of both male and females. Hate to say it but I wouldn’t believe much of what a man tells me. Look at match.com and you will see lie after lie after lie and no body lies. LOL. We start relationships lying (there not lies we are just stretching the truth) and then wonder why no one trust or believes us. Ahhh, but if a man or woman wants something, the the lie is worthy and is not a lie, it is just seen as a insignificant manipulation tool. I still holding out for the person who doesn’t lie, see’s a person as a person not an object of pleasure or someone to use to pass the day until something better comes along, who actually has a sense of humor versus humor that puts others down, someone with integrity, true integrity not just integrity 20% of the time. That is why there are no traditional men or women in America today cause you can’t trust any one to follow through on their words – do you know of people who sign contracts and as soon as it is no longer good for them they want out of ithe contract and are pissed when they can’t? Marriage is the same like kind of contract and I am well aware that the vast majority of American’s treat their marriage like their cell phone contract – when it is no longer working for them, their signature or word means nothing. So … that is why there are no traditional men or women, we stand for nothing are are sluty (using anyone that will allow us to have our way with them).
dont give up sweetheart
I am absolutely the traditional girl. I would adore a man that let me love him and the care of him but thanks to this women’s lib shit, girls like me are miserable because we stuck with what came natural.
I’m just looking for a traditional wife, ideally with no sexual history, but maybe 2-3 other sexual partners at most. Has not been found. Even then I’d worry, what if she changes 10 years into the marriage and divorces me? I’d be screwed financially for life. Don’t know what to do.