It is time to give credit where credit is due: leftists, negroes, and illegal aliens have admirable qualities that are in short supply in White Nationalist circles.
In Washington this week, militant illegal aliens pushing for the D.R.E.A.M. Act staged sit ins at the Senate Hart Office Building. Those charged with disorderly conduct could face deportation from the United States.
The illegal aliens are now sharing their full names and legal status with anyone who asks. Renata Teodoro, an illegal alien from Brazil, told reporters, “I’m not going to lie and say that I’m not afraid of someone coming in and trying to arrest me, but I can’t let that fear take over my life.”
From across the political spectrum, I can’t help but admire Mrs. Teodoro. She has the courage of her convictions. In the real world, Teodoro stands up for her beliefs (even if they are crazy), and is willing to face the consequences in doing so. This young woman has admirable character traits like courage and integrity that some of us lack.
I am constantly reminded that Jeffrey Imm of R.E.A.L. is willing to take to the streets in Washington to promote his delusional worldview. Hardly a week goes by in which he is not up to something: protesting Sudan, Nigeria, China, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. On any given day, it could be Islamofascism, Islamophobia, women’s rights, or racism.
Red Jeffrey is an activist machine. He isn’t content to talk about his insane beliefs on the internet. He follows up his words with action in the real world. As Jared Taylor found out, when properly motivated, a single determined individual can do us a lot of harm.
Look at the NAACP. After throwing Shirley Sherrod to the wolves yesterday, they have since retracted their denunciation and have gone on the offensive. They continue to attack the Tea Party and accuse its members of “racism.”
In response to the NAACP, the National Tea Party Federation expelled Mark Williams over an “offensive” blog post. Sarah Palin went on Facebook and crowed about how she is married to an Alaskan native, how “all decent Americans abhor racism,” and how the Tea Party represents our “proud and diverse” nation.
There is even going to be a “Uni-Tea Convention” which will celebrate the “diversity” of the Tea Party. This comes in the wake of the Tea Party supporting non-White candidates like Nikki Haley and Tim Scott in South Carolina and cooing about how “non-racist” and “progressive” they are after their nomination.
Weak and pathetic.
Paul Babeu, the Pinal County Sheriff who made headlines for calling attention to the fact that illegal aliens were occupying parts of Arizona, recently appeared on The Political Cesspool. A foolish mistake for an aspiring politician.
The SPLC and Media Matters jumped on Babeu. Now he is “saying he is sorry” for appearing on a radio show “tied to a hate group.” His spine has collapsed into a puddle of ooze in a public spectacle.
The above are all recent examples that illustrate why leftists are winners: all a leftist has to do to win is snap a photo, call someone a nasty name on the internet, and make a few phone calls.
That’s the modern version of the rack.
White Nationalists are terrified that “someone might find out” who they are in real life. That’s why there are gazillion of these fake names on the internet. It is why there are hundreds of thousands of White Nationalists in cyberspace, but the actual number of veteran activists in the movement couldn’t fill a hotel ballroom.
It gets even worse. Because no one in the White Nationalist movement can be associated with anyone else, even when everyone knows everyone else involved, I know of cases where people have accumulated up to four or five fake identities. Talk about letting fear take over your life.
I can’t exaggerate the magnitude of this problem.
I don’t see any way around this obstacle either. I have come to realize that it is possible to inform, educate, persuade, and entertain people, but motivating them to take direct action in the real world is almost impossible.
Most White Nationalists assume that informing and educating our audience is sufficient to solve our racial problems. If only Americans knew how awful the Jews are, how White people are getting screwed over, or we could expose them to the right book or abstract idea, then certainly they will take action to do something about it.
In reality, that is rarely the case. There are already tens of thousands of White Nationalists who know about the Jewish Question but who don’t feel inclined to do anything about it at all. If only 50 people are willing to act (usually the crazy ones like James von Brunn), what good is achieving 500k unique visitors a month on the White Entertainment Channel?
Is that what we are doing? Entertaining ourselves? Passing the time? If we are entertaining ourselves, unable to commit to change in the real world, are we just wasting our time?
Note: The news cycle has me in a dark mood. Perhaps my optimism will return tomorrow.
Here’s a thought. If one of us is harmed by an economic attack we rally to their cause. The anonymous masses donate to the persecuted White Nationalist and make them whole. Use the same fast fundraising tactics that the Ron Paul campaign developed to raise millions in a single day. If they can do that we can do $100,000 once the online network is big enough.
At the same time we pay lawyers to file a torrent of lawsuits against the antifas, exposing their real names in the process.
If they can be dragged into court and exposed they might not be so willing to attack.
I assume we would lose every lawsuit, though they should be filed in good faith. In other words, make sure the suits are reasonable even though we know that the system will never give us an even break.
They are afraid that someone will take their photo, find out their real name, and that there will be social and economic consequences.
We’re losing ground every day. Five years from now, it will only be harder to speak out against the status quo. Ten years from now, it will be harder still.
Perhaps it is “defeatist” to say this, but I am starting to feel like I am throwing around a ball in the 5th Quarter in an empty stadium. Maybe I should just accept that we have lost.
You are mistaking the fashionable outward appearance for the inward essence.
Before punk rock existed, there were whites who loved their extended family.
When punk rock came, some of those whites created skinhead punk music.
Now that punk is less fashionable, skinhead punk is declining. Maybe white skinhead punk will go extinct. That doesn’t matter, so long as the white gene pool survives and thrives.
Maybe in five years no one will call himself a “white nationalist,” but tens of thousands will call themselves “Evolans” or “NeoFolk” or “Tea Throwers” or “white ethnic rights advocates.”
I think Hunter Wallace is going to lose some battles, but I don’t think the white gene pool is going to lose the war.
And you know what, Hunter? Even if all your political ideas fail, so long as the white gene pool survives, you will remain undefeated.
Some great comments here and not much else I can say that hasn’t already been said. Some WN’s assume that by rolling up our sleeves and adopting the activist tactics of the left will put white nationalism on the map and make it a political force to be reckoned with. Maybe that would be true if we had sympathizers in mainstream media outlets and in the halls of power at the local, state and federal level but we have no such advantages and probably never will given the virulently anti-white political climate that’s been created by you know who.
As was mentioned the stakes are much lower for non-white and Jewish activists. I’ve never read of any of them having their lives destroyed by speaking out. And if they were there would be plenty of co-racialists and/or wealthy leftists willing to lend a financial helping hand with attorneys fees or day to day living costs. Non-whites who rage against the white man are roundly embraced by their own people and become folk heroes.
The case of Matt Hale and Edgar Steele should serve as an example of what happens when a white man won’t mince words. Matt will rot in prison for a long time for a crime he never committed and other than a few nice essays there hasn’t been any organized effort to hire him a top flight lawyer and appeal his case. Edgar Steele has also very likely been set up and arrested for a crime that existed only in the mind of a dead beat federal informant. He has been denied bail and held incommunicado. Again, no there’s no outpouring of support or organized effort by wealthy white nationalists hire him a top flight lawyer and win him some basic rights until he goes to trial. Since neither men look, speak or act like Jared Taylor they must be vanguardist losers who aren’t worthy of support. At least according to the know-it-all mainstreamers.
Some purporting to be in the pro-white camp have done their utmost to trash Edgar’s name and prove his guilt. At least non-whites close ranks and support each other in times of need. White people turn on each other. We are a pathetic spectacle. What’s the incentive to become active when most white people won’t understand or appreciate our efforts?
Go ahead and follow Jeff Imm around with a video camera but keep in mind that we belong to a race that doesn’t see itself as a unique people worth preserving and who seem to have a collective death wish. Then throw in the fact that our establishment is diametrically opposed to everything we stand for and it takes the appeal out of activism in my opinion.
“The only way to break these taboos is through direct action in the real world, as we saw when blacks overthrew the much stronger entrenched racial etiquette of Jim Crow, but that involves taking risks that White Nationalists refuse to take.”
Hunter, the Jews overthrew Jim Crow. Maybe we should do what the Jews do. Or, we need to groom a candidate and let him work his way to the top like Hitler did.
Relax comrades. When (not “if”) the economy clapses, the oppressive regime will lack enforcement power and the ethnic and racial grievances, long simmering under the surface, will boil over. This isn’t a melting pot, it’s a boiling cauldron of witch’s brew. And, it’s about to explode. We’ll probably become another Kosovo. There is a lot more anger out there among whites than what is thought and it will get worse and worse as they lose more and more… it will become a vacuum.
Can anyone say “coup?”
Greg Hood, comparing France 1780 with France 1795, put it very well. Screw HW’s (bogus) pessimism. And I’ll put it another way. Mao Tse-tung said two eternal things:
1. “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”
2. “A single spark can spark a prarie fire”.
Millions of whites are armed to the teeth. And this country is dry, dry tinder. So a little patience, comrades.
I think it is gradually dawning on OD readers that we are all being taken on an emotional roller-coaster ride. Hunter’s ideological positions are pinned to his emotions, and his emotions are unstable. It is that simple.
Objectivity is foreign to him. If he likes you, he likes your ideas. If he takes a disliking to you, then he dislikes your ideas. Recently, he has not been getting what he needs emotionally from his readers and commentators, so he is talking about packing up the tent.
Although the issues being raised here are worthy of debate in and of themselves, and the arguments might persuade rational people, don’t make the mistake of thinking that Hunter is one of them.
As galling as it is for me to admit, Alex Linder was right about Hunter: He is unstable, his politics shift with his unstable emotions, and in the end, he will end up disappointing anyone who puts faith in him.
Hunter: “Of course they will – if someone else does all the hard work, if someone else makes it easy to voice their opinions in public, if the actions of others sweep away all the consequences of standing up for racialist views, if someone else suffers all the consequences when it is hard. Isn’t that convenient?”
You are speaking in half-truths. Yes, some people lead and take more risks than others. They deserve to be supported. But that is not to say that those who follow will have it easy. I don’t think there is any question that there are anonymous people out there today, alive right now, that will end up giving their lives for the cause of white survival (people you accuse of having no character). It’s also likely true that some of the loudest mouths today won’t do a damn thing when crunch time hits. I can’t “prove” that, but I can prove similar results from the history of many, many revolutionary movements. Until the time is right, until real momentum and a revolutionary spirit is created, most people remain dormant. Then they come alive.
People are largely herd animals. For the revololutionary, it is very difficult to get the herd moving in a radical direction. Note well these words from our own Declaration of Independence:
“…and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
Our forefathers observed the same problem, but it didn’t stop them from winning a nation. The point is that seismic shifts don’t happen every day, Hunter. The simple fact is that white nationalism hasn’t done the necessary work to move to the next stage.
Hunter: “I can’t take ownership of the character of others.”
Who is asking you to? You are misframing the issue.
You expect white nationalism to be exempt from the rules of reality. When you find that it is not, you respond by insulting the character of men that you know nothing about. When things reach a certain point, and they will, we will all see who is made of what. But we’re not there yet.
You have built up a great site, though of late you seem bent on undermining it. Why is that, Hunter? Does that relate to character? People can contribute to the site, and help it achieve legitimate goals, without going public. You yourself use a pen name. So what’s your beef, and why the steady stream of insulting white nationalists while praising System hacks like Imm?
Hunter: “The Tea Party didn’t need an elaborate ideology, a philosophy to replace liberalism, the perfect message, the perfect book, the perfect organization, vision, or idea to fire people up and get them in the streets.”
Sure it did, but we can leave “perfect” out of it. The Tea Party didn’t just materialize out of thin air, with no precursor. To the unobservant, it might appear that way, but the Tea Party represents the last gasp of many ideas that have percolated through American history for centuries. It also owes a lot to the spread of libertarian ideas over the course of the last couple of decades. The libertarians don’t spend a lot of time bemoaning the lack of character of the typical person. Instead, they focus on spreading ideas. Their ideas may be wrongheaded and will never appeal to more than a small minority of people, but that is beside the point.
The point is that they spread their ideas, achieved a critical mass, and now have something resembling a real voice. Our path will not be their path, but the basic stages are clearly visible. Once the ideas had spread far enough, and the time was right, Ron Paul was able to raise more money in a single day than he did in all of 1988, and more than the Libertarian Party could raise over the course of many years. It’s not exactly rocket science how this works. You’ve got to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.
Greg,
Matt Parrott says:
July 21, 2010 at 9:51 pm
It’s not because of Hunter Wallace that X doesn’t show up at Y event.
Yes. That is your fault. You are failing to achieve your goal. So am I. So is the CofCC. So is A3P. So is everybody else in the movement. Take ownership of it and stop blaming our people.
Hunter Wallace says:
July 21, 2010 at 10:54 pm
I can’t take ownership of the character of others. In politics, the most you can hope for is to influence people. The only life you have full control over is your own.
Trainspotter says:
July 22, 2010 at 5:29 am
Hunter: “I can’t take ownership of the character of others.”
Who is asking you to? You are misframing the issue.
Let’s be clear: Matt raised the “ownership” rhetoric, Hunter refuted it quite concisely, and Matt acknowledged that the rhetoric was excessive.
Greg Johnson says:
July 22, 2010 at 5:28 am
As galling as it is for me to admit, Alex Linder was right about Hunter: He is unstable, his politics shift with his unstable emotions,
Alex Linder is consistently raucous and obnoxious, all the time.
Hunter is only obnoxious rarely.
Hunter will get over his current pessimistic mood and go back to being Hunter; Alex Linder will always be Alex Linder.
drake,
This thread is about the biggest obstacle standing in the way of White Nationalism. It is only logical that our little think tank would get around to addressing it at some point.
For the record, I am not going anywhere in the sense of “packing up my tent.” The only packing we are doing around here is getting ready to go to the CofCC meeting in South Carolina on Saturday.
The threat to a man’s livelihood for having heretical opinions is very real. I call myself “Discard” for that very reason. I now have a humble but honest job, and I’d lose that too if someone told the boss what I was. I don’t doubt, BTW, that the more sophisticated enemies of our race know every one of our identities.
Compassionate Fascist wrote a very pertinent reminder. This country is awash in guns, and millions more are sold whenever the Dark menace makes a showing, such as rioting in Los Angeles or getting selected as President. White people buy a lot of guns to shoot attacking Blacks and Mexicans. You don’t need an auto pistol to defend your home from a couple thugs. Whites are envisioning war, a war of self-defense and survival. A war which will be started by the Darks.
Trainspotter,
1.) You’re right that the biggest loudmouths have nothing to contribute. Alex Linder, for example, is nothing but an incontinent Neo-Nazi windbag who lives in his grandmother’s basement. He hasn’t done anything in the real world since he showed up in Tennessee with Hal Turner.
2.) The only way to create “a real revolutionary spirit” and “real momentum” is to assemble a critical mass of White men with the character and will power to act decisively in the real world to precipitate political change.
3.) It is foolish to believe that some idea or abstraction will lead to that scenario. If anything is true, hanging out in the library and acting in the real world are inversely correlated. I know this from experience.
4.) I don’t think there is anything stopping us from engaging in direct action in the real world. The Tea Party doesn’t have any distinguished philosopher or elaborate worldview.
5.) I don’t see how you can deny that character is the major issue. The majority of White Americans are content to graze on Doritos and Cheez Whiz until they lose their majority status.
If White Americans had the character of their ancestors, they would not tolerate their present situation. What caused the American Revolution? A few taxes on tea and stamps. How would the Revolutionary generation respond to the type of system that we have now? The Civil War generation?
We’ve lost our country because we are soft and decadent. A republic is based on moral virtue. Liberty has no other foundation.
6.) I think it is impressive that Imm stands up for his beliefs. I can respect him for that.
7.) The social shaming/employment discrimination issue is the biggest obstacle in the way of White Nationalist activism. It has to be discussed.
8.) I’m reconsidering the pen name. The only reason I use “Hunter Wallace” now is because no one knows me as anything else and it is too confusing to write under a different name. Maybe I will just legally change my name to Hunter Wallace!
9.) The Tea Party people are not libertarians. They like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck more than Ron Paul.
If anyone doubts ‘they are out to get us’, some dude on the other end of our state just got sentenced to 5 years in prison plus 25 years of probation for putting up WN stickers. A childish stunt to be sure, but anyone else would have just gotten some community service, if the police even bothered to investigate it
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/05/man-gets-five-years-vandalizing-norfolk-synagogues
2.) The only way to create “a real revolutionary spirit” and “real momentum” is to assemble a critical mass of White men with the character and will power to act decisively in the real world to precipitate political change.
3.) It is foolish to believe that some idea or abstraction will lead to that scenario. If anything is true, hanging out in the library and acting in the real world are inversely correlated. I know this from experience.
I submit that Stephanie Meyer has done a great deal to benefit the white race by making patriarchy sexy.
Women love Stephanie Meyer books. They love the notion of a pale-skinned man who will jealously guard a patriarchal household.
Women’s love – even a nearly-insane love of a fictional, pale-skinned vampire ideal – may accomplish more then men’s revolution.
http://wp.me/pXtxQ-7W
Hunter: “You’re right that the biggest loudmouths have nothing to contribute. Alex Linder, for example…”
To clarify, I didn’t say that. I simply pointed out that, in the coming ordeal, it is a near certainty that some people who are anonymous today will make great sacrifices, and that some people who are visible today will not. History strongly suggests that this is true. I don’t see any reason to drag Linder into this. I realize that he is unpopular on this board, and that may be justified. But he has operated under his own name, sacrificed any prospects of a mainstream career, consistently kept a site and forum up for years on end, and is capable of flashes of brilliance. We should always give credit where it is due, and I don’t think we need another Linder Great Debate. Believe it or not, Hunter, I respect both of you for what you have done…the two are not mutually exclusive.
Hunter: “The only way to create “a real revolutionary spirit” and “real momentum” is to assemble a critical mass of White men with the character and will power to act decisively in the real world to precipitate political change.”
Yes, and I’ve explained the necessary preconditions to achieve this. Don’t take my word for it, study revolutionary history.
Hunter: “It is foolish to believe that some idea or abstraction will lead to that scenario.”
This makes no sense at all. If people don’t believe in a cause, why on earth would they sacrifice for it? You are being deliberately obtuse in this matter.
Hunter: “The Tea Party doesn’t have any distinguished philosopher or elaborate worldview.”
Again, this completely misses the point. Hunter, people are herd animals, not mere zombies. There is a difference. What in the world do you think motivates them, gets them to show up? The Tea Party is a physical manifestation of an entire host of ideas and values, a last gasp if you will. You can see in them everything from Locke to Jefferson to Smith to Rand. Most of them probably haven’t heard of two or three of the above, but they have still absorbed the ideas and values.
They didn’t come up with these ideas themselves, somebody who came before them did. Unfortunately for them, their worldview isn’t terribly coherent. We are seeing them flail about, and while they might have an impact in this fall’s election, it is unlikely that they will ultimately “win” on any particular issue. Unless they radicalize, that is. If secession fever spreads, the Tea Party could have an enormous impact on history, but their current approach can’t work.
Just as the Tea Party approach can’t work, white resistance in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t work either. We had the Dixiecrats, Citizens Councils, Massive Resistance, George Wallace, school walkouts, all white academies, etc. We’ve already had “our” Tea Party, and it availed us of nothing. Look where we are today. The System is completely rigged, and pro-white movements that work within that System and play by System rules are doomed to failure. Sure, the Tea Party might have an impact in some elections, but so did guys like Wallace. He won multiple STATES in 1968, and it still didn’t matter.
The only solution is our own land and our own government. And dude, if you don’t think that we need to lay some serious groundwork before convincing significant numbers of people of THAT, then nothing that I say will persuade you. It should be obvious.
Hunter: “I don’t see how you can deny that character is the major issue.”
It’s a problem, but it is a problem that all revolutionary movements face. All of them. It is very difficult for a revolutionary to move the herd in a radical direction. I’ve explained, at length, why this is the case. Successful revolutionary movements do not throw up their hands in surrender when confronted with this problem, they instead do the work to move on to the next stage.
Hunter: “If White Americans had the character of their ancestors, they would not tolerate their present situation.”
Did you not read the quote I provided from the Declaration? The Revolutionary generation faced similar problems. Again, ALL revolutionary movements face this issue. Time and again we see the pattern: incredible heroism was preceded by years of most people doing nothing, years in which the firebrands toiled in relative obscurity.
Hunter: “We’ve lost our country because we are soft and decadent. A republic is based on moral virtue. Liberty has no other foundation.”
I agree. But we are where we are. The realities that govern revolutionary movements are still in force. I guarantee that there are plenty of people out there today who will make real sacrifices in the years ahead, and you are completely unjustified in insulting their character. Right now, we don’t have a truly organized movement with a compelling vision and clear goals. We don’t agree on where we are going, how to get there, or what to do once we get there. We’ve accomplished about one percent of what we could in terms of spreading our message. In short, it’s absolutely ridiculous to malign the character of people for not joining…what? What exactly?
It should be obvious that white nationalism is at a certain stage in its development, and that there is much, much to do before it moves to the next. Whining about character doesn’t change anything.
Hunter: “I think it is impressive that Imm stands up for his beliefs. I can respect him for that.”
LOL! Being a System hack requires no bravery. Praising him while insulting white nationalists is ludicrous.
Hunter: “The social shaming/employment discrimination issue is the biggest obstacle in the way of White Nationalist activism. It has to be discussed.”
I agree that it needs to be discussed. But any intelligent and productive discussion should involve an understanding of revolutionary movements, the stages that they pass through, and an appreciation of human nature. Endlessly harping on character when the movement hasn’t remotely done its job is not discussing the problem in a meaningful sense. It’s just a cop out. Let’s bitch about something that we can’t control, while ignoring everything that we can.
Hunter: “I’m reconsidering the pen name. The only reason I use “Hunter Wallace” now is because no one knows me as anything else and it is too confusing to write under a different name. Maybe I will just legally change my name to Hunter Wallace!”
Yeah, should I legally change my name to Trainspotter? Would that be proof of character? Come on. Whether to use a pen name is a personal decision. When one lives in a hostile System, it is a perfectly reasonable decision. Do as you wish, but I’d counsel sticking with the pen name for now. But that’s what it is – a pen name, make no mistake about it.
Hunter: “The Tea Party people are not libertarians. They like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck more than Ron Paul.”
I didn’t say that they were libertarians (they are an amalgam thrashing about), but there is a strong libertarian strain. Ron Paul is often called the grandfather of the Tea Party movement. The point is that the Tea Party didn’t simply appear out of nowhere, but rather is a physical manifestation of ideas and values that were created and promoted by others. But again, as I mentioned above, we’ve already had our Tea Party. I’ve seen this movie already.
Every one of us knows that we are measured with a different yardstick than pro-establishment professional goons like Imm. Good, hardworking white people who would like to have a pro-white america still have to go to work everyday and put food in their kids’ mouths and gas in their cars. If you young, single bucks want to devote your lives and resources to intellectual debate, attending rallies, videotaping enemy jagoffs and living with other bachelor roommates, that’s cool. But the rest of us LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD where other people, innocent people depend on us for everything. And if we lose our livelihoods or wind up in jail on some bogus bullshit, OUR KIDS AND WIVES WILL HAVE NOTHING AND NOBODY TO GUIDE AND DEFEND THEM. I can’t even finish this comment without being interrupted by my kids every five seconds! We all do what we can with what we have at our disposal.
I know you are venting some frustration…I’ve been frustrated with the world for my entire life, but you’d do better to point your high-powered perception and whiter-than-thou attitudes at someone else. How do you know that people aren’t taking steps, changing the minds of friends and relatives, causing little revolutions everyday? Because we don’t announce and update our plans and actions in blogs? OR is it because we aren’t doing it according to YOUR plans? Be a little more humble and introspective, because you might find out it’s your high-horse that has no legs.
I’ve been doing it my own way for 20 some years, sometimes alone and sometimes with others, and I will never stop. I was like this before there were cool media like OD, etc.. I will be doing it long after they goes away, beyond praise, beyond criticism. Don’t be the flea on the chariot axle of whiteness: the chariot raises the dust, not you.
Things will change. They are already changing. Destiny itself is dragging us along in the right direction without bullhorns, parties, websites. Seeds of its own destruction and all that. I think all of you guys, no matter what your involvement (jews and establishment trolls excluded), are good folk, and I enjoy just knowing that there are others out there who are as dissatisfied as I with the present situation, and I like reading their personal perspectives on the world. That, in and of itself, fuels me with more inspiration. When the shit goes down, all that is gonna matter is if you put your money where your mouth is: will you be ready for existential struggle?
Very well said, Gregory Hood, Joanne, Matt, Trainspotter et al. Great insight and perception at work here. Keep articulating, your prescience is priceless. To answer Revilo Oliver’s famous quip, there is intelligent life on earth after all!
Trainspotter,
1.) I don’t see why Alex Linder is due any credit at all. If you read what the SPLC has to say about him, they think the most remarkable feature of his website is that it has been used to undermine the movement from within.
Alex Linder is a rhetorical radical. He sits in his grandmother’s basement and calls others names on the internet. That’s all he does. How brave of him.
He hasn’t done a fucking thing in the real world in years. The only exception that comes to mind was the time he showed up in Tennessee with Hal Turner. As for that forum of his, he used it to turn over information which was used to help send Bill White to prison.
2.) Then we agree that character is the most important issue, moral qualities like courage and integrity, not some abstraction that can be safely entertained in the comfort of one’s own home?
3.) The Tea Party thinks Obama is a secret Muslim, that he plans to raise their taxes, that he is a socialist, and that they are “losing their country.” They don’t sit around reading Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, and John Locke all day.
I’m not convinced that ideas alone are sufficient to motivate people. In my experience, “ideas” lead to internet chatter whereas “ideas” + “character” lead to action.
The proof that ideas are sterile can be seen in the bookworms who have read every pro-White philosopher imaginable fifty times over and can’t be motivated to say hello to their next door neighbor.
If anything is true, there is an inverse correlation between reading lots of books and acting in the real world.
4.) The only people who can be counted on to “move us to the next step” are the ones who have the character to act in the real world.
You’ve said it yourself: the reason that so many people fail to act in the real world has nothing at all to do with their failure to read the right book or essay.
It is wholly attributable to the fact that the leftist with the camera, the cell phone, and the nasty name is sufficient to deter them from even thinking of showing up on the battlefield.
When will these people show up? When they read the right William Pierce essay? Or when it is safe to call yourself a White Nationalist without having to suffer any consequences? You know the answer as well as I do.
5.) They are defeated by words and photos, not by bullets or physical violence. It sticks in their craw to point this out. To be sure, it pisses them off, but they know it is true.
I can’t imagine anyone taking a bullet for White Nationalism who can’t handle a digital camera.
6.) If we look at National Socialism, we can see that millions of Germans joined that movement when it was safe for them to do so, when all the important sacrifices had been made by others.
7.) In the history of this website, there hasn’t been a more meaningful discussion. It is only now we have chose to discuss the most important reason why White Nationalists fail to join real world organizations.
The failure to of real world organizations to emerge from internet chatter of the last twenty years is the key to understanding the stagnation of the movement. The only way to break that stagnation is through real world action and that requires moral qualities, not ideas or abstractions.
8.) White Nationalism would have reached the Tea Party stage years ago if it were not for ritual shaming and employment discrimination.
White Nationalists are typically overeducated because they don’t have a real world outlet for their energies. Instead of building a local cadre or party organization, they prefer to read history or philosophy all day.
It is safe to sit in the comfort of your own home and read books, pen essays, and post anonymous comments on the internet.
Hunter, I don’t think your characterization of Linder is accurate, but I’ve said my piece and see no value in a Great Debate on the subject. I’ll address a few other points:
Hunter: “Then we agree that character is the most important issue, moral qualities like courage and integrity, not some abstraction that can be safely entertained in the comfort of one’s own home.”
We agree that character is an important issue, but not in the way that you are addressing it. The real issue is that revolutionary movements go through stages, and white nationalism is not immune to this. Fixating on character, while ignoring the dynamics of revolutionary movements, is a red herring.
Hunter: “They (the Tea Party) don’t sit around reading Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard, and John Locke all day.”
Of course they don’t. I made it clear in my post that most Tea Partiers probably don’t even know who some of those people are. I’m all for having a productive debate on this, but that doesn’t include misrepresenting my position. The point is that ideas have consequences as they spread through the culture. The Tea Party is no exception, but it applies to our opponents as well. Do you seriously think that the brainless multicult sophomore who spouts anti-white nonsense sits around and studies the Frankfurt School all day? Come on. She’s never heard of it…yet she has absorbed the ideas. She has no inkling as to the origin of the ideas that she spouts, but we do. One of the most annoying thing about the typical white lib is that they have no idea that the nonsense that they are spouting has its orgin in the warped mind of some malevolent Jew. No idea whatsoever, but that’s what happens when ideas spread. People forget the origins, it just becomes part of the atmosphere.
Hunter: “The proof that ideas are sterile can be seen in the bookworms who have read every pro-White philosopher imaginable fifty times over and can’t be motivated to say hello to their next door neighbor.”
The proof that ideas matter is all around you. Healthy ideas once bolstered our culture, unhealthy ideas have now destroyed it. The notion that an anti-social bookworm alters this overwhelming reality is nothing short of absurd.
Hunter: “When will these people show up? When they read the right William Pierce essay? Or when it is safe to call yourself a White Nationalist without having to suffer any consequences? You know the answer as well as I do.”
A study of revolutionary movements gives us a pretty good idea of what the answer is, and it’s not the answer that you are giving.
Hunter: “If we look at National Socialism, we can see that millions of Germans joined that movement when it was safe for them to do so, when all the important sacrifices had been made by others.”
How many MILLIONS would make astonishing sacrifices later on, even though they weren’t involved in the early movement? The millions that later fought with incredible bravery, often demonstrating feats of extreme heroism, somehow they lacked character? The guy that saved his entire company on the Russian front, but wasn’t involved in the early National Socialist movement, he lacked character? Absolutely absurd.
This is a perfect example of your blind spots and oversimplifications of the character issue. One can have excellent character while never involving oneself in a revolutionary movement. One can fight like a lion later on, though he didn’t get involved in the beginning. That’s just reality, and that reality is a lot more nuanced than you are letting on. That’s also why I say that the real issue isn’t character per se, but the dynamics of creating a successful revolutionary movement. The two issues are related, but they are also different.
Hunter: “The only way to break that stagnation is through real world action and that requires moral qualities, not ideas or abstractions.”
The real world manifestations will follow when we have developed powerful ideas and spread them far enough. Not before. That isn’t just me talking, it’s the history of successful revolutionary movements.
Hunter: “White Nationalism would have reached the Tea Party stage years ago if it were not for ritual shaming and employment discrimination.”
I explained this above. We DID reach the Tea Party stage, back in the 50’s and 60’s. Dixiecrats, Wallace (who won entire states as an independent, by the way), Massive Resistance, school walkouts, campaigns to impeach Warren, Citizen Councils, all white academies, etc. Where did it get us? Straight to today. Why? Because the pro-white movement was incoherent, it lacked a real vision and a real solution. After all, who needs ideas? (hint: we do).
Wallace loved to denigrate “pointy headed intellectuals.” Look where it got him. More to the point, look where it got our people. The problem is not pointy headed intellectuals, but ANTI-WHITE intellectuals. We need pro-white intellectuals, and lots of them, and they need to create a vision that compels people to sacrifice for our collective survival.
Incoherent rage and resistance accomplishes nothing. The pro-white movement of the 50’s and 60’s was not revolutionary, and it did not seek to create a nation of our own. After all, such an “idea” is pretty scary, isn’t it? Don’t think too much! What are you, a pointy headed intellectual?
Instead, they just joined up, got involved – exactly what you counsel now. It all amounted to squat. Surely you understand what I’m driving at.
Hunter: “It is safe to sit in the comfort of your own home and read books, pen essays, and post anonymous comments on the internet.”
So yeah, let’s repeat the mistakes of the past instead.
>>>Hunter: “It is safe to sit in the comfort of your own home and read books, pen essays, and post anonymous comments on the internet.”<<<
A few minutes ago, I sent my weekly announcement to a local newspaper. I've listed a copy below. If you think this typifies White cowardice and lethargy, I hope you're right.
When I'm not dodging rocks, bottles, eggs and stink bombs, I occasionally enjoy the intellectual asylum that you begrudgingly provide on your blog.
Thanks – – Jimmy
From: Jimmy Marr
Subject: Pacifica Forum Announcement
To: “Eugene Weekly”
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 10:36 AM
CALENDAR
WHAT: Pacifica Forum presents:
View and discuss YouTube’s “Diversity or Deception” Videos
WHEN: Friday, July 30th at 5:30 pm
WHERE: University of Oregon, Center for Media and Educational Technology, (15TH & Kincaid).
COST: Free and open to the public. Further info: 541-744-0940
Hunter is right. If we want a White Nationalist homeland we’re going to have to act in the real world. Trainspotter is right, revolutions aren’t built in a day. You have to go in stages.
We’re far enough along to start acting in the real world. The ideas need work and that will happen as the movement grows in response to real world contingencies. What’s preventing the movement from advancing to the next stage is, as Glenn Miller frequently reminds us, lack of leadership. The crowd isn’t going to follow itself. They need someone to step forward and point them in the right direction. When a man of character does that he will call up other men of character to work with him. If his organization can survive enemy attacks the masses will start showing up.
By surviving enemy attacks which will be proportionate to the quality of the organization the vanguard will prove that they can fight and win. People follow winners.
You can’t win by blogging. You have to step forward.
And I prove myself unworthy of leadership by failing to close the tags.
As galling as it is for me to admit, Alex Linder was right about Hunter: He is unstable, his politics shift with his unstable emotions, and in the end, he will end up disappointing anyone who puts faith in him.
A bit of projection maybe. Someone who defends their attacker over their friend is one I would say is unstable.
Is this because of Hunter’s response to your essay? You can’t be that petty and insecure.
1.) I don’t see why Alex Linder is due any credit at all. If you read what the SPLC has to say about him, they think the most remarkable feature of his website is that it has been used to undermine the movement from within.
Alex Linder is a rhetorical radical. He sits in his grandmother’s basement and calls others names on the internet. That’s all he does. How brave of him.
He hasn’t done a fucking thing in the real world in years. The only exception that comes to mind was the time he showed up in Tennessee with Hal Turner. As for that forum of his, he used it to turn over information which was used to help send Bill White to prison.
Our enemies give him credit, he serves their purposes whether knowingly or not.
That Hunter disassociated himself from a known sociopath and informant is a testament to his integrity, which can’t be said for some here.
Trainspotter is not Robert Lindsay.
Lindsay is goofy but he’s not psychotic.
Trainspotter: I think it was George Orwell who wrote that every “practical” businessman who scorns intellectuals, in fact has a head full of ideas invented by guys in wigs back in the 1700s.
If I’m wrong about it being Orwell who said that, would someone please correct me?
Hunter: “Trainspotter is not Robert Lindsay.”
Mark: “Lindsay is goofy but he’s not psychotic.”
How did I just know that you would slither in on this one? Just had to troll a somewhat productive thread, eh?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: there is something not right about you. Something is definitely off with either your agenda, your creepy personality, or both. You are the only person on this board that I have had that reaction to, and I’ve learned to trust my gut. Something’s wrong.
@Hunter. It’s your board, so of course you will do as you like. But the fact that you allow this kind of cheap trolling in the middle of an otherwise productive conversation is telling. The little worm does it for one and only one reason – he knows you allow it. But since Mark transparently tries to ingratiate himself with you, especially as concerns his creepy and girl-like obsession with Linder – I guess it’s o.k. Really enhances the board’s value for WN’s and newbies alike, and convinces me that the time I put into some rather extensive posts was well spent. Thanks for that. Wasted time kicks ass.
@Discard. Yes, I recognize the quote, can’t remember the source. Very, very true though.
I’ll admit I don’t have the right answer. I’ve always had mixed feelings about street activism probably because I know so very little about it. There’s probably more than one right solution to our perceived stasis and as I said long ago white nationalism needs a multipronged strategy which includes revolution from above (intellectuals, etc.) and below (working class whites). How best to accomplish that is open for a raging debate but it must be revolutionary in nature and not reactionary as in the 50’s and 60’s.
The bottom line is it’s very easy to have the courage of your convictions when there’s little to risk as in the case Jeff Imm and the illegal demonstrators. Deportation back to one’s homeland isn’t exactly a fate worse than death and besides, Obama and his black AG are very pro-illegal alien so they are taking a safe risk.
Heckling Jeff Imm with a video camera seems non-value added but if that gives meaning to someone’s life then be my guest. For what it’s worth I find value in the writings of Alex Linder, Greg Johnson, Hunter and many others but the petty attacks in all directions prove once again that we just don’t have the single mindedness and group cohesion to accomplish very much other than some fancy meet, eat and retreat sessions.
Trainwreck: I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: there is something not right about you. Something is definitely off with either your agenda, your creepy personality, or both. You are the only person on this board that I have had that reaction to, and I’ve learned to trust my gut. Something’s wrong.
There is nothing right about you. You repeat the same old tired nonsense ad nauseam. You have just substantiated what I said.
Your “reaction” was merely because I had something negative to say about Linder, that’s it. You’re a prissy little queer who can’t stand for someone to talk about his boyfriend. Get a life, you psycho faggot.
Considering what Hunter and others have said about Linder and Hunter banned him, and you have nothing to say against them shows how much of a sycophantic coward you are.
You and some other VNN types rival the degeneracy and despicableness of the worst Jews and negros one can imagine.
All right guys, if you’re going to have a back and forth like that, take it somewhere else.
No, writing the perfect book or one blog isn’t the magic bullet. But it’s a start. People have to keep hearing the same message over and over again from lot’s of different sources for them to accept ideas. A critical mass has to achieved and such is not there yet. I read one comment somewhere from a woman who had come upon Duke’s ideas and had a sympathetic reception from some friends and family only to be dismayed that they abandoned the ideas shortly thereafter. That is how the average person works, they have to start hearing these ideas more often from multiple sources. Think of how the leftist propaganda works. Do they just tell the kids in 5th grade civics class how wonderful MLK is and then drop it? No their propaganda is ongoing in almost every single thing the system puts out there. It goes so far as even a simple monster movie is all about “tolerance” and “diversity” and the commercials are full of faked out “Potemkin Villages” of genteel picket fence dwelling middle class blacks living in multicultural bliss. The fact is that the message of white dispossession has to be gotten into the heads of fellow whites out there and it can’t be done in a way that looks over the top kooky such as dwelling on the Third Reich, survivalism, calling US Soldiers “War Criminals for Israel” etc. It’s all about the media. We have to put out stuff as slick and professional just to get a chance to step up to the plate for a few swings at the ball. Leftists never accomplished anything by showing up on the street with a few signs. These are choreographed stunts planned by THEIR MEDIA as an excuse to hammer home another propaganda coup over the boob tube. Rightwing protests will either be utterly misrepresented, or most likely not reported at all. It’s bypassing those damned alien jews and their f-ing media monopoly that is the foremost key. And if the message has to be toned down a bit to go viral, so be it, we at least have to get the direction of the conversation moving in our direction. There is no need to tell the truth about the full extent of your beliefs to gain power and influence. Look where lying got the Clintons, right into power.
“It’s bypassing those damned alien jews and their f-ing media monopoly that is the foremost key.”
Amen. They also control the jewniversities.
Re media monopoly.
Lets try and push this site along:
antiwhitemedia.blogspot.com
Its not my site, I just think its a good idea.
“All right guys, if you’re going to have a back and forth like that, take it somewhere else.”
Which back and forth are you talking about? Because one of them has some value of making me laugh after a hot and hard day, while the other was getting old a few weeks ago.
http://antiwhitemedia.blogspot.com/
Always better to post a working link.
Mark: “Your “reaction” was merely because I had something negative to say about Linder, that’s it. You’re a prissy little queer who can’t stand for someone to talk about his boyfriend. Get a life, you psycho faggot.”
LOL! Yeah, that’s it. It couldn’t be that you are a liar, troll and disruptor of threads, not to mention the creepy and bizarre obsession with Linder. I know that some others here see through your routine, but an occasional warning is not a bad idea. You are a defective.
@Hunter: Sensing an opening to disrupt, Mark pops up. He offers nothing productive, just smears. Notice the language that Mark uses to describe Greg (petty, insecure, unstable) or me (psychotic). Standard anti smears, designed to lower the value of the thread and drive wedges. Mark loves describing white nationalists in these terms, and interjecting them into an otherwise productive debate. He doesn’t want readers to see intelligent discussion which might lead them to view white nationalism in a more attractive light. Now, whether he is smart enough to do this consciously, or it is simply the result of his defective and creepy personality, or perhaps his genuinely strange, homo/girlish obsession with Linder, who knows? The point is that something is clearly wrong with the guy. He’s pulled this time and time again, otherwise I wouldn’t make such a big deal abou it.
While we cannot be certain of his motives, the tactics are clear enough. Lie, misrepresent, smear, disrupt.
I’m taking the time to address this because it rises beyond a single defective like Mark, and since the thread is largely ruined anyway, we might as well get some salvage value out of it. For me, the whole point of writing is to make white nationalism more attractive. That’s the goal, plain and simple. Even when we disagree, newbies and lurkers will respect intelligent debate, as it destroys the negative stereotypes that the System promotes about white nationalism (and which defectives like Mark spread). But when bullshit is allowed into the threads, and allowed to stand as legitimate, it wipes out the value of the whole enterprise. Why bother contributing? Mark knows this. Do you?
Mark’s m.o. is clear: he makes standard, boilerplate white nationalists posts from time to time, to establish credibility. Nothing special, nothing that really helps us. He’s definitely become slicker since I called him out long ago. Then, when he sees an opening, he begins the disruption. Is it an accident that he made his latest move when you were feeling frustrated/discouraged? He does that EVERY time.
In a spirit of candor, I’ll mention one last thing that, until now, I had refrained from bringing up. When you moved to Virginia and encouraged people to drop you a line for a meet up, I almost did. Then I thought, he coddles defectives like Mark. It’s not worth it. In retrospect, I’m sure that I made the right decision. I’ve got my own circle of WN friends that is entirely defective free, and that will have to be enough for now. I respect what you’ve done and are trying to do, but none of it can work with defectives.
I guarantee you that I’m not alone in this, this sure as hell isn’t about me. The fact is that when you allow defectives to free range, it comes with a cost. Losing one person may be no big deal, but people in general are going to be less likely to contribute or get involved. The standard should always be: does this person help or hinder white nationalism? If the answer is hinder, as it clearly is in Mark’s case, why is such a defective allowed to free range?
In all fairness, I think this is a bigger issue than the character hobby horse you have been riding. You claim that character is the biggest reason that people don’t get involved. I’ve argued in response that it is far more nuanced than that, but I’d say that higher on the list is concern about coming into contact with infiltrators/defectives/weirdos. Why would men of character want that?
Always better to post a working link.
http://antiwhitemedia.blogspot.com
Last timeI did that it failed.
Maybe this time….
Yay!
“I’d say that higher on the list is concern about coming into contact with infiltrators/defectives/weirdos.”
That is certainly true, but looming larger still, is an understandable disinclination to sacrifice oneself for lemmings who could care less about their race. The lemmings aren’t ready to listen yet, they haven’t suffered enough. The purpose of sites like this is to produce as many capable carriers of the message as possible so that they can go out and evangelize to the lemmings when the time it right.
Hunter Wallace is an ideas man, that is his utility, to distill ideas for lemmings with IQs south of 130; or even for those with 130+ IQs, but cursed with a congenital inability to actually think. He is no leader of men, as Johnson alludes to. Based upon my reading of the (admittedly limited) circumstantial evidence, Johnson is not suited for leadership either, cuz leaders don’t usually swish. But I am confident he will never substantially betray the cause due to his National Socialist convictions – which are the gold standard of racial loyalty. Johnson will faithfully fulfill his proper role as author of one of the quality organs for our message in preparation for the time when a critical mass of lemmings actually are receptive. For that he deserves our respect and support. Will Hunter Wallace do the same?
P.S. No, for Christ’s sake, don’t change legally change your fucking name, Brad, er, I mean Hunter. Know your role.
Things will change. They are already changing. Destiny itself is dragging us along in the right direction without bullhorns, parties, websites.
This is the right direction?!
I know alot of White minded people for whom the ‘hard-sell’ door-to-door harping is as irritating as Jehovah Witnesses, and who find lefty style protest abhorrent. Distrustful of professional agitators and talking heads, but are pretty receptive to subtle changes in their consciousness. They are still men with a barrel-full more of character than any wn activists I’ve met.
“This is the right direction?!”
Why does Destiny frighten you? It shouldn’t make you feel helpless. You’ll have a part to play, and might even live to see it fulfilled.
There ya go: Kievsky just posted something from a guy who isn’t afraid of Destiny:
“If you are out there and you feel like you are at the end of the rope, I want you to hang in there, because the future, after the collapse, is going to belong to those of us who know how to create value, and your oppressors are going to go away soon. When the tyranny starts, what that means is they are about to go away because they can’t feed all these people. If you feel like you are at the end of your rope, get back to those basic principles, because your time will come.”
-Tom Baugh
Trainspotter, re Mark
When I mentioned upvoting every comment by this guy on Reddit (everybody should do that):
http://www.reddit.com/user/johnny_cash
Mark then chimed in to say he had downvoted every comment by johnny_cash, for one I dont believe he did but more importantly, given the nature of all those comments Mark’s anti-white position is crystal clear.
Wow… that was kind of a low blow by Greg Johnson to attack someone for changing their mind on a public blog.
Vacillation is expected when you publish your thoughts and comment on the news. Read any pundit from Buchanan to Kristol, you’ll see the same.
Then again, didn’t Greg Johnson write a glowing review of the Northwest Trilogy book then publish a strange article saying we should pray for a world where we evolve into elves?
Pathetic. Again, Hunter – ban people from your website, please.
There is a real world and then an imaginary world where philosophers spend vast amount of time discussing and pontificating.
As for me, I’ll gladly pray for a world where elves are our evolutionary brothers.
You shouldn’t mention Linder, Johnson or any of these types ever again.