British West Indies
Here’s another excerpt from Andrew Jackson O’Shaughnessy’s An Empire Divided: The American Revolution and the British Caribbean on White racial attitudes in the British West Indies:
Note: The American Revolution sundered the Deep South (Georgia and South Carolina) from the Deeper South (Jamaica, Barbados, Leeward Islands, Windward Islands).
“Whites in the British West Indies regularly spoke of slaves as the internal or the intestinal enemy. They wrote as a group besieged. Negrophobia was even more pronounced in the islands than in the southern plantation colonies of North America. The writings of white West Indians like Edward Long, Philip Thicknesse, Samuel Estwick, and James Tobin depicted blacks as violent, primitive, untrustworthy, and troublesome. The usually paternalistic language of eighteenth-century elites, which so elegantly disguised the dynamics of class and racial struggle, degenerated into the language of conflict and hatred when talking about blacks.”
The Buckweheat nigra that was in that chimpack in NYC sure looks like she fits the description.
Of course the black slaves were “internal” enemies. They were dragged away from their African homelands at the point of guns and cannons, and forced to labor all their days in chattel bondage, in chains, and at-the-end-of-a whip. If the whites disliked blacks so much , why did the whites bring the Africans over here to the New World in the first place? What goes around comes around. Doesn’t mean I’m happy about it, I’m not.
But, what else are you all expecting? That the blacks worship the ground you walk on? The slave-owners saw themselves as so Superior to the blacks, yet the blacks were doing all the work, the white slave-owners weren’t even capable of doing their own work ; That’s not being superior ; That’s being lazy and incapable : two inferior traits ; I don’t blame the blacks for not respecting that, I don’t either ; There’s nothing superior and respectable about laziness and incapability. There’s nothing to respect about being lazy and incapable.
You crackers be crackin’ me up.
Joe, that’s the first intelligent post you’ve made on OD.
Joe,
(1) You ought to have included a violin playing in the background in that comment.
(2) I’m guessing it was because Whites were decimated by malaria and yellow fever in the tropics and even the most fecund masters couldn’t sustain the White population in the West Indies.
(3) Why did those Yankees engage in the transatlantic slave trade?
(4) Actually, that doesn’t follow: slavery was overthrown by moralizing White liberals in Britain and Yankeeland, not by a slave insurrection.
(5) That’s true.
White laborers were incapable of sustaining sugar plantations in the West Indies. The proof of this is indentured servitude in Jamaica and Barbados.
(6) Yankees have this bizarre notion that working is superior to leisure; who works though when they have the means not to work? Who would volunteer to work on a sugar plantation in Antigua where they are certain to die of infectious disease.
(7) Abolitionism is the father of women’s suffrage, civil rights, and anti-racism. The disease just so happened to thrive in Yankeeland where righteous Yankees believed that work was superior to leisure.
(8) The British West Indies is further proof that slave society fosters racialism and conservatism whereas free society fosters liberalism, anti-racism, and social revolution.
“(1) You ought to have included a violin playing in the background in that comment.”
This is a ludicrous thing to say. (Can’t believe I’m defending Joe!) You know perfectly well that sugar-plantation slavery in St.-Domingue was absolutely brutal and utterly inhuman; the whole “violin” bit is understatement on a nuclear scale.
“(2) I’m guessing it was because Whites were decimated by malaria and yellow fever in the tropics and even the most fecund masters couldn’t sustain the White population in the West Indies.”
Then either, a) Whites shouldn’t have gone around setting up plantations in the West Indies, or else b) Whites should have invited free blacks to come work there for an honest wage for a set period of time, and then sent them back home when the term expired and paid some new ones. Worked out fine with the Chinese on the railroads, and for the exact same purpose: you need money/work, we need labor, but we don’t want you to put down roots here, because this is our country not yours.
You can have that logic and still keep your country. If Mexican guest-labor were well-regulated and strictly founded on the proposition of “do your work, take your paycheck, and now go home, and don’t you dare try planting any little ninos on American soil” then we wouldn’t have the train-wreck we have right now.
But slavery as practiced in the Indies and in most of the South was morally indefensible, and also grotesque.
@oscar the grinch
Go ahead and defend Joe – just because people here argue with him about been a Jew troll doesn’t mean he can’t write good posts.
Which brings me to Hunter’s point about leisure vs work. To have some leisure from physical work means leisure to think, write and engage in the pursuits that make for the building up of a civilization. Someone who has liesure to think, for example, would learn to distinguish between rhetorical argument as distinguished from argument based on evidence and non contradiction in terms.
Joe the Jew, for example, can argue on the basis of evidence and non contradiction in terms and his argument stands or falls on its merits.
You recognize this. So did Socrates. The biggest fool or rogue in the world could state ‘the sun is shining’ – that doesn’t make it dark outside.
Especially as Whites engage with the Jews regularly on the blogs (and the Jews are usually heavy on the rhetoric), the Whites who are exercising their leisure should get this and work on their thinking because they are tackling some very hefty issues.
Chattel slavery, for example, has always existed in one form or another. No society has been free of it de facto. After the War of Succession – the Parliament closed the Commons in order to create de facto slaves in order to work in the coal mines. They might not have been called by that name – but they were in chains and they were slaves living in the great industrial slums. There weren’t any do-gooder prot abolitionists calling for their emancipation.
There is no such thing as a classless society. But definition a society is an organic division of labour. So for the class whose labour is owned by others the question arises of their humanity and how would a just state protect that humanity and what rewards would they as person receive from their labour?
A Christian state would be most concerned about this issue and devote its best intellectual resources to answering this question well in terms of the social kingship of Christ. Quas Primas. I say best because to deprive the working man of his just wages is – along with the murder of the innocent and sodomy as sin crying to to heaven for vengeance.
@ Hunter Wallace
I loaned out my Stradivarius to the New York Philharmonic. Rest assured. I was
whistlin’ Dixie when I wrote the post, certainly not the Battle Hymn of the Republic. I live in the Big Bear Republic of California now anyway, the East Coast/ Yankeeland is history for me anyhow. Did you catch the incredible beauty of California I was so considerate to link to under the California “Road Warrior” article? Check it out. It’s not so bad here in the Big Bear Republic. Not yet at least [ of course I’m not in LA or Oakland, that’s a whole other ballgame].
I just had to get it off my chest: My first post, you know, about “internal” black-slave enemies. Boy. You Southerners are more thick-headed than the Italians. That’s saying alot. I grew up with Italians, and happen to be one myself. So I really don’t have any severe issues with Southern stubborness ; I know how to handle stubborn types : I’ve had many years of experience with that in the Bronx.
@ 313 Chris
That’s one more intelligent post than you ever shot off.
Joe : Is Numero Uno [ # 1!]
@ Chris: Is Batting Zero
By all accounts, California is a beautiful state. I’m told the weather is much better out there than here in Dixie.
May I ask a question that is more philosophical, than real?
If we discuss the ‘plight’ of the Negro (leaving aside all other races but they and we), are we not considering them as Human Beings, rather than as chattel, once we consider plight as a valid question to ask?
And if we do that, are we not bound eventually to think of them as Humans – i.e., our Equals? So, if they aren’t our equals (and/or, never can be) then, why should we even consider them more than how we might consider, say, our ass or our ox- as behemah, as the Scripture calls them? Why engage on the slippery slope of ontological ‘equalness’, as it were? Clearly Hunter’s source materials certainly didn’t. Clearly, the Rainbow Confederates do, and therein lies the last four or five posts we’ve all been commenting on. Are they, or aren’t they, HUMAN?
If the Negro truly did very little labor in Africa (and we can see that they- as a race- DO do very little labor, if left in their natural shiftless state) then, using Western norms for labor as part of our definition, we make/made them productive for the FIRST TIME IN THEIR HISTORY – well, maybe for the first time since they helped build the Pyramids as slaves for the White Pharaohs- and, while Whites may have made them useful, of course they would be living in ‘inhuman conditions’ from the standpoint of their indigent genetic past! But no hominid can live in any sort of Eden, as long as the Curse exists, and we are all under it. This life is NOT Paradise, and why should a beast of burden expect ‘R&R’ as a slave?
For, is not a ‘beast of burden’ MEANT to be a beast of Burden, and nothing more? In short, we are back to the point where the Men of the South were, when they asked the fundamental question, ‘Do Niggers have souls?’
For if they don’t (as we understand the concept of a soul as the ‘divine spark’ given alone for the sons of Adam) then it doesn’t matter how THEY feel about it- just as it doesn’t matter if the Jebusites are utterly destroyed- God’s will trumps liberal ideology, as it were.
And, if such thoughts appear to be horrific, or inhuman, then we need to turn the ideological question on its head, and say, BUT THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE TALMUD CONSIDERS THE GOYIM. Why do we not eradicate Jewry and remove them from Occupied Palestine, if such thoughts are ‘evil’? Why doesn’t the ‘Christian US’ (I am joking, for it is liberal ideology that is corrupting all our thought processes, here- and there is NOTHING Christian about liberal Marxist thought, or Novus Ordo ‘plight of the poor’ rhetoric) then look with as much ‘utter disdain’ on the Jewish Supremacists, who are ACTIVELY engaged in this sort of mindset, instead of resurrecting a 150- ideology in the American South?
If Whites cannot think this of Negroes, then why should we allow it of jews towards the Goyim (which includes we Whites)?
Of course we know the answer. Jews control the memes of discourse. But the question can still, must still, be asked, even if only in a “What if?” scenario……
Oops, fingers hit send too quickly. I meant to add-
“…instead of resurrecting a 150-year old ideology in the American South, as if it were the majority opinion today, when it is not?”
oscar,
(1) I’ve heard it all before straight from the horse’s mouth.
(2) Tropical diseases like malaria and yellow fever would have decimated the White population of the West Indies regardless of whether there were plantations there. Britain lost thousands of troops to disease in Jamaica during the American Revolution without a shot being fired.
(3) Did you know that Indians and Chinese coolies were imported to the West Indies to work on the plantations after abolition? Did you know that they also stayed behind in Trinidad, Jamaica, Barbados and elsewhere?
(4) White racial consciousness was an effect of plantation slavery in the West Indies.
(5) We’re sick and tired of being told what is moral and what isn’t by Yankees who worship niggers, abort babies, and marry homosexuals.
I’m with Joe, it would have been better to never have imported negro slaves in the first place.
By now, there are mechanical niggers that can chop a field of sugarcane much faster than the traditional variety, which nevertheless is still in use in many parts of the world because if they didn’t have sugarcane to chop they wouldn’t have anything to do.
The same book that justifies slavery is the same book that calls us to pay the working man a fair and honest wage. Boy. What a mixed message. That’s why I don’t care for the bible. It’s full of mixed messages. Our Western culture is based on the bible to a very large degree. No wonder Cognitive Dissonance is epidemic in the West.
Easy stuff to answer. Blacks, under white rule, enjoy lower crime rates, longer life and material wealth. If that’s an imposition then the nigger is just a perverse accident of nature.
Hunter Wallace says:
“We’re sick and tired of being told what is moral and what isn’t by Yankees who worship niggers, abort babies, and marry homosexuals.”
And you are so spotless.
Football season draweth nigh Hunter. The holiest time of year in Dixie. That means all you Southeners can pack your stadiums to the brim and get all excited cheering on YOUR beloved Negroes.
Funny to watch legions of Southerners cheering on coal black teams. Oh, happy days! Our Southern school loaded with negroes beat your Southern school similarly packed with negroes.
We be #1 baby! Auburn? Alabama? No negro worshippers there? It’s your religion!
Just read the college message boards. Oh, goody, Rufus Tyrone Jones will be the new QB. Lord have mercy on the coach who does not recruit the latest greatest negro for the all coon team. He’s liable to be lynched.
You guys go spastic over those boys. Let’s get real.
I suppose abortion is non-existant in the South.
Queers, they are all up north, right?
Come on now. Don’t shout me down cuz I’m preaching so good.
Sam,
(1) If memory serves, every public university in the South was segregated … until the federal government used the U.S. military to integrate Ole Miss and the University of Alabama.
(2) Northern universities had long been integrated at the time.
(3) Actually, there were no negroes in our schools until you forced us to admit them.
(4) Abortion was illegal in most Southern states before the Roe decision.
(5) As for queers, gay marriage is also a Northern thing. Assuredly, it will be imposed on the the South via the Supreme Court when Obama and his successors appoint enough liberal justices.
I contend that college ball is a form of neo slavery. The nig busts up his body for a useless diploma. The school makes a fortune off it all. A group of white overseers set up a punishing regimen to get the blacks to perform.
They are like Janisarries.
Some differences. White tax payers pick up tab for medical care decades later. A few white women are served up as dessert after game.
Some tell us that White men can’t work in the tropics. Somehow, white men are just not cut out to work in the tropics. But when there’s a war in a tropical region, White men go to the tropical regions and work and fight and sweat and spill their blood, and about 99% of the White men that are sent to tropical regions to fight, are more than capable to work and fight in the tropics. So this whole idea that White men can’t survive working in the tropics is Bullshit.
And while the white men are fightinng an enemy in the tropics, the white men at the same time are building air strips, and harbors, digging canals, building forts, and bridges, and dams, and all manner of infrastucture, in the heat of the tropics while at the the same time fighting an enemy. So this whole idea that we needed blacks over here in the Southern regions to work because White men can’t work in the tropics is Bullshit.
I covered this last month here: malaria and yellow fever decimated British troops stationed in the Caribbean, and even the planters with the highest birthrates in Jamaica couldn’t sustain their families due to high mortality rates.
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/06/13/caribbean-project-demographic-failure-of-white-settlement-in-the-british-west-indies/
Of course, none of this holds today because of scientific progress in our understanding of infectious disease in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but that was not the case in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.
Malaria used to be a major problem in the lowlands and river valleys of the Lower South, but strangely it isn’t today for some reason ….. doh!
And then there’s all the poor white Southerners who also picked cotton and tobacco working alongside the blacks, and the whites picked the cotton and tobacco just as well as the blacks, if not better. The whites didn’t die from it, not at all. The poor whites down South were very capable of working in the same exact conditions as the blacks. So this whole idea that we needed blacks to work in the hotter regions is Bullshit.
More British immigrants settled in the Caribbean than New England … doh!
The South has a subtropical climate … the tropics begin just south of Florida, and the British West Indies are well within the tropics … doh!
If malaria was such an issue, how is it the wealthy whites in the malarial regions stayed on and survived the horrible malarial lands ?
Ban Joe, his foolishness is getting old. It started off as somewhat amusing, it’s danm well annoying at this point.
White indentured servants were tried in Jamaica and Barbados but succumbed to quickly to yellow fever and malaria. The Scots also tried and failed to colonize New Caledonia in Panama … doh!
If white people can’t survive in malarial lands, how is it the wealthy whites managed to survive in malarial lands ? If all other kinds of whites die in malarial lands, what did the wealthy know about surviving in malarial lands that the non-wealthy whites didn’t know?
Australia was successfully colonized without black labor.
Maybe because they were living in Britain and France as absentees because the climate was so unhealthy … doh!
The part of Australia that was colonized by the British is also not in the tropics. South Africa also has a Mediterranean climate.
What about the whites who immigrated to Kenya and Rhodesia and South Africa ? The whites there did much of their own work. It’s not exactly a temperate climate like Virginia. And why did they need slaves in Virginia any way ? Virginia isn’t in the tropics.
If they lived in Britian and France, why did they build so many manor homes for themselves on their plantations here in the New World ? How come they didn’t die of malaria when they visited their plantations ?
Whites immigrated to South Africa … in the seventeenh century, which was possible because 1.) South Africa is not in the tropics and 2.) South Africa has a Mediterranean climate.
Centuries later …. Whites settled in Rhodesia and Kenya and even the Belgian Congo … after Europeans learned more about infectious tropical diseases, and how to fight malaria with quinine.
Doh!
They built manor homes in Dixie which has a subtropical climate and where few planters were absentees. In the British West Indies, planters tended to build manor homes in England and hire lawyers and overseers to manage their estates.
Not every planter was rich enough to become an absentee landowner. Those who stayed behind married and had children, but infant and mortality was so high, mainly due to tropical disease that the White population stagnanted or declined in spite of the fact that more immigrants went to the West Indies than New England.
Doh!
Most of the Europeans who came to the New World came to make a fortune for themselves, not to create a WN racial utopia …doh!
They developed White racial consciousness by living among black slaves and because of the practical benefits of racial solidarity in light of the threat of Indian attacks and slave rebellions. … doh!
Well, Whites have a habit of taking measures to assist the public health like clearing malarial swamps and engineering public sanitation and water supply.
Whites have a habit of creating medicines to deal with diseases like malaria which (along with Yellow Fever) was successfully treated by the brilliant German medicine of homeopathy in many epidemics. This is suppressed science – but the record is there.
Whites are not limited to accepting these things as a decree of fate or the will of the gods. We do not read the entrails and rattle the bones to discover who is at fault for the malaria outbreak in the Bantustans. We run experiments to find the causes.
Today Irish homeopathic community is assisting Cuba to successfully treat its annual Leptosporsis epidemic through the national health with homeopathic nosodes through the Finlay Institute in Cuba. This at a fraction of the cost they would pay Big Pharma for mass vaccinations.
So the Whites continue to progress and help others to progress.
@ Hunter Wallace
I hope Sean is calmed down now for your rather diplomatic answers. I will drop the subject for now. Maybe someday you’ll answer my question as to why they needed slaves in temperate climates. Whites were always capable of working fine in temperate climates. I’ll drop the issue for now, though. Sean is upset. I hope he’s going to be okay. Maybe Sean can go play with the Rabbit. Whatever happened to the Rabbit? I hope it didn’t run away. Poor Sean.
I answered your question.
In the subtropical climate of the South, malaria in particular was still a problem, although it wasn’t as big a problem as in the West Indies. That’s why South Carolina became a settler society whereas Jamaica and Barbados did not. The climate was a lot healthier and the White population was able to grow as a consequence.
Slavery was established in Virginia and South Carolina in the seventeenth century. South Carolina was founded by Barbadians who transplanted their social system to the mainland.
In the Virginia Tidewater, indentured servitude was tried out like it was in the West Indies, but whereas disease was the primary factor in ending indentured servitude in the Caribbean, cheap and abundant land was the primary factor in North America.
In Virginia, Whites would arrive from Britain and Ireland … and then strike out for the vast frontier to clear their own land. Since indentured servitude was not slavery, it was also subject to swings in emigration.
In the late eighteenth century, fewer Whites emigrated to the colonies because the economy in Britain improved, and Virginia planters turned to black slaves like their counterparts in the Caribbean had done.
Joe says:
If they lived in Britian and France, why did they build so many manor homes for themselves on their plantations here in the New World ?
No, they lived in the South, but soon tired of the grandeur, opulence and sophistication of states like Mississippi and Alabama which were known throughout the world as centers of trade, finance and culture. As a lark they vacationed in France and England just to see how poor folks lived in the backwaters.
“How come they didn’t die of malaria when they visited their plantations ?”
They stayed indoors. Plantation mansions were air-conditioned. A little know fact repressed by yankee historians. In addition, their scientists developed water purification processes so advanced they were the envy of the world. The effing Germans slipped in by way of the North and stole their technology (who couldn’t see that coming) ) and passed it off as their own. Grrrr.
Only messing around with you guys. In that kind of mood today.
Homeopathy?
Smirk. Oh my god.
Yeah that’s how to cure yellow fever, aggressive bacterial infection.
And Joe the only reason that whites Were able to colonize the tropics in the later half of the 19th century is because they were curing diseases that used to decimate humans in those regions. And trains.
When the Brits attempted to pinch Haiti off the French about 5,000 Royal Marines were sent. They were wiped out by yellow fever. Only whites aclimatized to that region could survive there. It took decades to figure out treatments.
@John
Sam has the correct view. Go have yourself a mint julep and go relax.
Whites should have invited free blacks to come work there for an honest wage for a set period of time, and then sent them back home when the term expired and paid some new ones.
oscar
Have you ever seen free negros work for a wage? Usually you make good posts with good points but that one is ridiculous
“Have you ever seen free negros work for a wage?”
You’re looking at the present day, after blacks in America have massively (and foolishly) internalized the trauma of slavery and Jim Crow (granted they should have pulled up their socks and got over it, but why they didn’t do that is a whole other interesting question). Also, blacks in Africa and the Indies have similarly internalized a sort of endless resentment over past historical traumas (and they were big ones, look at the bloodbath that was Leopold’s Belgian Congo for instance), that has resulted in a poor work ethic. But these things aren’t black genetic traits per se, and similar phenomena have been seen in the past in places like Ireland and Russia, given similar dis-incentives to work, and similar major social traumas.
This isn’t to let blacks off the hook, but we do have to analyze this stuff rationally and put it in perspective.
Contrary to the general view around here, prior to the advent of white European interference in African affairs, starting circa 1500-1600, Africans had functioning agricultural civilizations and kingdoms, occasionally even empires, of their own. They weren’t nearly as sophisticated as what one saw in Europe, the Middle East, India and Asia, but on the other hand they weren’t just a bunch of naked retards bumping into the walls of their mud huts either, as some here like to believe. They had advanced agriculture, long-distance trade, river navigation, metalworking, organized armies, all the basics — just not as good as elsewhere. In the Carolinas, African rice-farmers were highly sought after as slaves to establish rice planting in the South. Rice agriculture is a complicated and tricky business: you don’t just throw a bunch of rice grains in the ground and wait for them to sprout, it’s incredibly complicated, and Africans knew how to do it at a time when white Americans did not. Which doesn’t make them super-geniuses, it just means that being a slouch may not be entirely genetic in their overall makeup.
So if you re-wound to before the advent of trans-Atlantic slavery, before these people had internalized massive disincentives to work, and had offered them fair labor at a fair wage, while explaining the ups and downs of sojourning across the ocean for say five or seven years at a time, who knows what the consequences would have been.
As I say, with the Chinese railroad workers that system worked out pretty much as planned. Only later did we make the mistake of doubling back and allowing massive Asian immigration, which is far more likely to prove our undoing than the simple-minded Africans, who after all are perfectly manageable whenever one truly summons the will to actually manage them.
The US has aggressively attempted to find something productive for blacks to do. No expense has been spared. I’ve lived through the lies of the antiApartheid era. Another twenty years has revealed the terrible reality that there nothing white can or should do to help.
What african kingdoms and the like, Oscar? The ones I know about from history were in northern africa and not ran by or built by black africans.
I lived in NC for many years and I’ve not heard anything like that about rice farming.
I agree about things working out with the chinks pretty well for awhile. Until recently that is
I have heard this about rice farmers.
But it could easily be a fabrication. What rice is cultivated today by Africans?
It’s more likely that Indians or Chinese were brought over for rice cultivation. A dark Indian would be called black.
It’s Asian staple food not African. I can’t quite place where rice cultivation With terraced hills would have taken place. I’d believe more readily if it were sorghum.
Here’s fact check on the rice question.
The Moors brought Asiatic rice to the Iberian Peninsula in the 10th century. Records indicate it was grown in Valencia and Majorca. In Majorca, rice cultivation seems to have stopped after the Christian conquest, although historians are not certain.[36]
Muslims also brought rice to Sicily, where it was an important crop[36] long before it is noted in the plain of Pisa (1468) or in the Lombard plain (1475), where its cultivation was promoted by Ludovico Sforza, Duke of Milan, and demonstrated in his model farms.[37]
After the 15th century, rice spread throughout Italy and then France, later propagating to all the continents during the age of European exploration.
The Ottomans introduced rice in the Balkans, it was an unknown plant in the Balkans before the Ottoman conquest.[38]
as it stands today 93% of world rice production is based in Asia.
so basically rice in the US would have orginated with French, Spanish or Italians
through European populations anyway. As soon at the Portguese got to Ceylon, Goa or
the Ganges they would have contacted Indian or Sri Lankan growers. The Nigerians grew a bit but asian varieties were dominant anyway and had spread to Europe before transatlantic slavery. Even now they don’t grow it in significant quantities in comparison to Asians. So much for the expertise.
So this looks like a minor role once again blown up out of all proportion by BRA
mythologists.
I thought rice was grown to feed negro slaves in the Caribbean, and not for export back to Europe, but I must admit I don’t know much about the rice trade or its history
It seems they knew how to grow it. But only capable of growing it when forced. The industrious Indians, Burmese, Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese grow practically all of it.
There are a few areas like Arkansas and Australia where it is still produced in large quantity for export. growing crops doesn’t strike me as something Africans are genuinely good at. And if we look at this socalled expertise look for it among the contemporary African, where is it today? These people don’t feed themselves. They don’t grow it on a commercial scale.
It’s also a a faintly pathetic thing to brag about as well. “oh look we can grow staple
crops!” like inventing peanut butter. wOoptie doo! It’s quite tricky to cultivate strawberrys in an English country garden. It’s not much of a contribution to civilization. Certainly not in top 1000 things Englanders Invented.