Dixie
Mr. Wyatt’s blog has taken some of my criticisms of White Nationalism and elicited some substantial responses over at Counter-Currents.
Here’s my response:
(1) Ethnonationalism in America – Ethnonationalism exploded in Europe in the nineteenth century during the backlash to the French Republic’s civic nationalism.
In North America, the American Revolution had just established the dominance of the same type of eighteenth century civic nationalism – the union of “free men” against tyrants – in the United States.
By the middle of the nineteenth century, the new ethnonationalism was busily carving Europe into the ethnostates of the twentieth century: Germany, Italy, Hungary, and Ireland were in the process of being born.
As I said above, Americans were significantly influenced by these transatlantic intellectual movements, so much so that the American Founders had modeled the United States on the popular European civic nationalism of their own times.
In the nineteenth century, Americans were still avid followers of fashionable European intellectual trends (as we always have been), and were significantly influenced by the ethnonationalism and romantic nationalism coming out of Germany and other parts of Europe.
Lajos Kossuth, John Mitchel, and Guiseppe Garibaldi were well known figures in America – what’s more, the Southern nationalists of the 1850s and 1860s saw themselves as being part of this broader fraternity of transatlantic ethnonationalists.
Prior to the nineteenth century, Americans hadn’t given much thought to dwelling on their ethnic origins and cultural differences, but the final climatic showdown with the Yankee in the 1850s stimulated an enormous amount of speculation on this topic in the South.
The South seemed like an obvious candidate for nationhood – it had its own peculiar climate and economic interests, it was settled by very different races of people, and the domestic institution of African slavery and created a major cultural and political divide with the Northeast.
“The Union of the South” had been threatened for decades, but it came to be seen as ever more logical and natural and inevitable in light of the parallel nationalist movements going on in Italy, Ireland, Germany, and Hungary.
So, the response to the shallowness of American nationalism is that ethnonationalism really isn’t that much older in Europe than it is here in North America – it was just blocked by the overwhelming force of the Yankee Empire in the 1860s.
In fact, the War Between the States was the bloodiest ethnonationalist conflict of the nineteenth century, and the result was that the emerging Southern ethnostate (like Quebec during the Seven Years War) was crushed and reduced to the subordinate status of Poland or Ireland.
There were many aborted ethnonationalist movements in the nineteenth century. Hungary and Ireland wouldn’t gain their independence until the twentieth century.
(2) Blended Stock – The European ethnostates aren’t timeless, primordial entities composed of ethnically pure races as opposed to a boiling American melting pot.
France, for example, is a composite of Latin, Celtic, and Teutonic races. In much the same way, Louisiana would be the Provence of Dixie whereas Kentucky would be the Brittany and South Carolina and North Carolina would be the Alsace-Lorraine.
Actually, this comparison doesn’t do justice to the reality of the situation, as there is probably more ethnic homogeneity, shared culture, and sympathy within the Southern states than there is wihin many established European nations.
White Southerners are already conscious of being a distinct ethnic group and vote and act ever more like aggrieved ethnic group.
(3) Generic Whiteness – The problem with WNs trying to unite White people on the basis of generic whiteness is that it as purely abstract and doesn’t capture the reality of the situation on the ground.
North America is aging. The frontier has been closed for a century now. The great waves of European immigration have been over for 50 to 70 years now and there has been a settling down and sorting out on the basis of cultural affinities.
Far from blending into a bland generic whiteness, “White Americans” are dividing along regional, cultural, and ideological lines into emerging ethnostates. The subcultures are becoming stronger and the political clashes within the consolidated Union are becoming ever more intense.
In California, there is a dominant West Coast sub-nation that is perpetually at odds with a rival Interior West sub-nation, and which is allied with the Brown Tide flooding across the border from Mexico.
As we saw in the Chick-fil-A buycott, the South is intensely conscious of its cultural, religious, and political differences with the Northeast and West Coast and sees the reelection of Obama in almost apocalyptic terms.
What is seen as “progress” in the Northeast and West Coast is seen as disturbing and threatening cultural degeneration in Dixie because of the lack of a shared culture and religion.
Thus, it is not true to say that the only choice we have is a nationalism based on a return to a lost primordial Indo-European solidarity. There are dividing lines in the real world. WNs just don’t want to acknowledge them.
(4) The Abstract Proposition Nation – As I have said above and elsewhere, WNs are committed to an abstract proposition nation that is based on racial grievances, detached from the real world, and operates as a kind of mental bomb shelter for alienated White Americans.
It only takes a few lines of questioning to reveal the nature of the project:
– So what is the name of the “White Republic”?
– Where in the real world does the “White Republic” exist?
– What is the ethnicity that is the basis of the proposed ethnostate?
– Can you tell me something about, say, its history or traditions and the things that we would normally associate with nations?
The keyword here is “proposed” because the “White Republic” is a fantasy that doesn’t exist. It is a purely abstract nation like the vague idea of a communist utopia. It doesn’t have a name or a particular people identified with the state or a flag or a history or even a physical location in the real world.
It floats above reality far up there in the clouds where you might expect to find St. Augustine’s City of God. You could find its ethereal alienated advocates congregating there in their perfected society.
Meanwhile, few people below in the real world (the proposed inhabitants of the WN “White Republic”) have ever heard of the concept and are puzzled by their inability to connect it with their own flesh and blood experience.
Sad as it is to say, Harold Covington really is the only White Nationalist who has tried to translate the proposed “White ethnostate” into the real world. The Pacific Northwest is at least a real world answer to the critical “where” question.
(5) Common Racial Grievances – What if I told you that gunowners worldwide were facing a common threat of disarmament by the United Nations? What if I told you that gunowners were a “nation” and the solution to this common threat was for all gunowners to congregate in a proposed Armed-N-Ready Republic.
It sounds absurd, right? You might find that gunowners lack a common culture, religion, ethnicity, and history. The Armed-N-Ready Republic might never get off the ground because the movement would be too heterogeneous to construct a viable separatist movement.
The proposed inhabitants of the Armed-N-Ready Republic might agree though to adopt the Gadsden flag as their nationalist symbol. They might even agree to base citizenship on gunownership and a martial spirit.
They might even have prominent spokesmen and a flourishing internet presence like White Nationalists and libertarians. Although not really much beyond that.
(6) Common Threats – Like the supporters of the Armed-N-Ready Republic, European ethnonationalists have cooperated to resist the common threats of mass immigration, multiculturalism, anti-racism, and demographic decline, but most are skeptical of the European Union and wish to rid themselves of their overlords in Brussels.
In much the same way, Southern nationalists can cooperate with White Nationalists to oppose these common threats, while drawing upon the strength of our own traditions and relative cultural and ethnic homogeneity to make greater progress in the real world.
We can do that without being submerged into any “White Republic” or “Imperium Europa.”
(7) Immigrants – The South is fully capable of absorbing immigrants and transplants and historically has enjoyed a lot more success in this due to the domestic institution of African slavery.
(8) White Nationalism In The South – If our fellow Whites in the North and West would SIMPLY STOP trying to force non-Whites on us, as they have done over and over again, then perhaps White Nationalism might have a future, but that is unlikely when the reality of the situation is that our fellow Whites are formally allied with blacks and Hispanics against us.
(9) Negro Slavery – Negro slavery made the South the racialist and conservative section of America.
The lack of negro slavery in the Northeast made that section into the present Jewish-dominated electoral fortress of liberalism and anti-racism that is dragging down the whole country.
(10) Southern Honor – By the 1860s, the South was significantly more aristocratic than the North, and its Cavalier honor based culture violently clashed with the Puritan guilt based culture of the Northeast – the classic example being the caning of Charles Summer by Preston Brooks, or the response to the John Brown raid on Harper’s Ferry, which illustrated the totally different moral universes inhabited by the two nations.
Of course it wasn’t always that way – unlike the sugar barons in the West Indies, who were considerably more wealthy, who attended Oxford and Eton, who built country manors in England, who acquired titles like Lord Beckford and married into the English nobility and who became a genuine aristocracy, and who physically relocated to England as absentee landowners, the tobacco and rice planters in the South were too poor to have such ambitions during the Revolutionary era.
The spread of cotton plantations across the Lower South and the soaring price of cotton and slaves had transformed the Southern planter class by the 1830s – it was not a genuine aristocracy yet, but it was quickly evolving into one like the sugar barons in the West Indies a century before.
In the 1860s, the Confederacy was created as a “Norman-Cavalier” ethnostate that was based on the self evident truth that some races and social classes are naturally superior to others, and are entirely justified in ruling over their dependents without consultation to ridiculous abstract Yankee notions like “human rights” and “liberal democracy” and “strongminded womanism.”
The new Southern ethnostate was going to be modeled on a combination of Norman England, the romantic nationalist movements in Hungary and Italy, the Old Republican states rights ideology, and the classical republicanism of Sparta and Rome.
Needless to say, it was a lot more thought out than the Republic of Whitemanistan with its national motto of 14/88 WPWW.
Note: As a final note, I will add here that “White Nationalism” doesn’t conflict with what we are doing here, in the sense that we recognize the existence of a common racial and cultural threat, and raising White racial consciousness and promoting secession only works to our advantage.
French nationalism and German nationalism or even “West Coast White Nationalism” doesn’t conflict with what we are doing here either – we wish our counterparts overseas success, and hope to be of some assistance to them should we ever triumph in our own ethnic homeland.
In the long run, there has to be something beyond “I am a White man” and “down with the Jew” and “niggers suck,” and one answer is that Dixie is our nation, we are a distinct ethnic group with clearly defined borders, a common culture, and a common history, and the perpetuation of the United States as BRA is incompatible with our national survival in the 21st century.
Dixie was the real “White Man’s Country” for centuries and we can easily knit the White Nationalist ideal into our own regional and ethnic social fabric in a way that connects with the historical memory and experience of our own struggle for autonomous national existence.
Good luck trying to do that elsewhere.
@ Sean, “…. I liken my assesment to the US as nothing but a crop of fools that is harvested and fleeced from time to time to enable the beast. We are given toys and media to steer us in to thinking we are free Men.
We, as nation are so far gone it is hard to imagine the extent of it….”
Yes… Day of the Locusts!
If you look at vids from the 70s, you see the exact same “shaving off” the money memes, and all the same public responses (the going green, the “back to the earth,” the survivalist responses).
It seems done just in a two generational cycle or so— just long enough to forget, just as some people began raving about Weimar and the 30s, and the comparisons of old Weimar cabaret to the lady gaga/ madonna shows (virtually non-dintinguashable)
In the bigger picture— it was stupid of pioneering Americans, maybe, to really think they would be able “allowed” to keep any part of what they did for centuries (sadly).
I think the pioneers and southerns have maybe been the most LUCKY commoners alive, ever on the planet. To have their innate resources, skills, genetics—- and to have a whole land this size to play in.
Most —around the world— will never even guess at the internal freedoms, the intense and rarified air, only known to those particular americans, imo. Austalia may be the closest. S.A., had it overtaken that continent, would have been another example.
—One wonders at the hidden history of whatever previous times when large landscapes were slowly peopled. —-But I digress (again).
The pioneer and southron have to confront this, and figure out how to preserve the history (and internal reality of their children) until the next go.
313Chris,
I’m voting nigger because the nig will best serve white interests given the alternative. The problem isn’t your criticism of Aiken; the problem is you didn’t stick to just criticizing him; you extended it to make a broad generalization about religious conservatives using left talking points taken straight from NY and Hollywood media. Those sentiments reflect the traditional Northern, leftist hostility to religious conservatives. A disproportionate number of them live in the South.
@John
If you’re pro-choice (or “pro-abortion” as Landshark calls it) then you won’t have a place in Stonelifter’s imaginary Dixie of the future.
John,
There are really about two kinds of “pro choice” people. A) the people who say it is murder and never want it ever at all B) the people who fairly well feel that way but under the circumstances of being enslaved under a “nanny state” want to reduce the mouths they have to work to feed, so they can feed their own and have enough money to feel it’s ok to have kids.
Rabid eugenicists are actually so rare that they’re not even worth mentioning, imo.
Immigration and/or “nanny statism” for radically different populations ARE THE ONLY THING that creates this “abortion issue.”
If every time, “abortion” were brought up, it was shifted to the conditions of life (nanny statism and radical immigration) that made it come forth AS AN ISSUE, maybe something new would happen around here.
@Lew
How the hell is this nigger going to “serve white interests”??? Do you honestly believe that your precious South is going to magically “rise again” under another four years of Obama? You are a FOOL.
You are a lair chris. Find one post where I’ve said pro choice people should be barred from Dixie. My choice would be it’s up to each State, and in Dixie that would mean no abortion, but I’ve never said being pro choice was or should be a requirement for Dixie citizen ship.
You are ignorant of history, and can not make an argument which isn’t based on lies or name calling. You don’t even have the man hood to respect people who disagree with you. You are of no value.
I like the idea of blacks aborting, and coal burners aborting halfcastes.
I’m a eugenicist that.
I hate the idea of white women aborting. It’s an abomination.
Adoption for a white kid a synch in today’s baby market.
… If a GOP pol made the anti-abortion appeal in a race conscious way it would be galvanizing. All the repressed issues like immigration, race, wages, college etc would come tumbling out in a pyrotechnic display of truth.
Oh yeah and it should be a state by state issue. If a woman wants one she should move to a like minded state to begin her adult life. Vermont perhaps.
“If you’re pro-choice (or “pro-abortion” as Landshark calls it) then you won’t have a place in Stonelifter’s imaginary Dixie of the future.”
So? He also pretty much wouldn’t have had a place being “pro-choice” anywhere in America in the year 1900. Nor would he have had a place in England in 1900 for that matter.
God forbid America be anything like it was then though. We need our great post 1960’s morality to be defended because it is what “Yankee Doodle” would want.
Of course Yankee Doodle in his new incarnation doesn’t like “Protestant cults.” Can only imagine what the founders of Massachusetts would think of that.
Think about this. The Democrats are a proposition nation. A belief in the right to
abort while subsidizing the reproduction of competing races.
the democrats are a proposition every entity holding together various special interests groups with the promise of tax money looted from middle class Whites. Once there is nothing to loot, the DNC will implode. Reality is the usa is based on the same proposition these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dE74RiFqA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
heart warming movie moments. How did this slip by the censors?
The spearchuckers have section 8 housing vouchers. The Riflemen have, well, rifles.
“(7) Immigrants – The South is fully capable of absorbing immigrants and transplants and historically has enjoyed a lot more success in this due to the domestic institution of African slavery.”
If this means mass immigration I respectfully disagree. After the era of the British founding, the South never experienced anything like the great waves of immigration the North did in the 19th and early 20th centuries until the immigration we are still experiencing today.
People often talk about the old American Party being a Northern party but what many people don’t know is the place the American Party lasted the longest was actually in the city of New Orleans. You know New Orleans, it’s the one city in the South that actually had a lot of immigrants back then. The American Party was still running New Orleans in 1862 when the Union took over the city and deposed them.
One interpretation of the American Parties activities New Orleans in fact is that it was not just an anti-immigrant party there but in fact it was primarily a mask for the Anglo-Americans to battle with the Creoles to achieve dominance over the city, which they eventually realized.
http://goo.gl/vAksm
“heart warming movie moments. How did this slip by the censors?”
In the very next cut one of the British officers asks why the Zulus made such an obviously suicidal charge and the Boer with the group says it was intentional and the Zulu chief was “just testing your guns.”
Zulu is one of the best movies ever. If you like volley fire check out the three rank fusillades in this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1csr0dxalpI&feature=related
My high school football line coach (a former Marine) made us do wind sprints while shouting “Zulu!, Zulu!” in unison. Things were different back in 1964.
“He’s a tiny-brained, big-mouthed fool like every other pro-life fundamentalist, and he deserves everything he’s getting from the press.”
Thus speaketh the hole of an ass….
Sorry, I mean POLE.
(same difference)
It’s my all time favourite film. The singing competition is genius cinema.
Men of Harlech…
I would love to see it remade with accurate equipment but it is otherwise so well done.
“I would love to see it remade with accurate equipment but it is otherwise so well done.”
The Webley revolvers were anachronistic but those Martini-Henry lever action single shot rifles were spot on except that they kicked a lot harder in real life. The later movie Zulu Dawn (1979) about the battle earlier in the day at Isandlwana that you posted a scene from, got more of the story and equipment right but it was also much more “politically correct.”
Far from suffering any long-term negative consequences to his career for ignoring the Gladstone governments admonition not to invade Zululand the losing British general Lord Chelmsford appealed to Queen Victoria and conquered it with a series of campaigns over the next couple of years.
I posted from Zulu not Zulu Dawn.
That was the reserve section repelling borders.
He brought Gatling Guns to Ulundi and a regiment of Lancers.
Harharhar a massacre.
“I posted from Zulu not Zulu Dawn.
That was the reserve section repelling borders.”
Quite right. I was mixing your link up with somebody else’s post.
“Zulu Ulundi: This Time We Brought Machine Guns” would be a great and fitting end to the film series.
The drama of Gats v Assegi not so great but the spectacle fantastic.
Unfortunately the story hasn’t ended yet. There are still over 4 million Whites in SA, about 10% of the population. Whether they can hang on is problematic although the Afrikaans speakers are a purportedly a bunch of pretty tough nuts.
I think they will fight back when no one’s looking. Sometime around when Tehran is being attacked.
@ ….If this means mass immigration I respectfully disagree. After the era of the British founding, the South never experienced anything like the great waves of immigration the North did in the 19th and early 20th centuries until the immigration we are still experiencing today….”
The NETs (northeast transplants) ONLY “america” has been that “melting pot” thing they were told. Because it is true to their experience (in nyc HALF the families speak non-english at home, a fact many southerners really do not know). Most of the larger (even medium) northern cities are the “cosmopolitan” dream of social incohesion, statism, population dependency and violence, coupled with hyper-self focus –not looking around on the street, talking in stores, etc., and the cultivation of superficial personality that it takes to be “successful” in the internationale.
Some of the top of europe —who took over in those cities— have NEVER known anything else.
The Regionalism that Southerners have known (extended family, kinship groups, language, literatures, arts, culture)—- is HATED.
They see it as “UPPIDY” — that the southerners want to be “aristocrats,” —because, in a sense, where they come from only the aristocrats could AFFORD that sort of life.
Unless you’re a ‘f*ck yeah’ mer-can—- you’re hoity-toity, uppidy, aristocratic, the image of the yankee prude, lol, which is very funny under the circumstances of the south, lol
@ John … If a GOP pol made the anti-abortion appeal in a race conscious way it would be galvanizing. All the repressed issues like immigration, race, wages, college etc would come tumbling out in a pyrotechnic display of truth….
It’s like ANY issue in the “color-based” wealth re-distribution society.
The only question is WHICH PEOPLE.
From the other end of life—- those most Generational of Americans, the white “boomers,” must be fleeced but good as they go out, and with no health care, once the bank accounts are wiped out.
So goes scarcity-mentality, coupled with no way to get money but to take it from one population and give it to another.
The Abundance Mentality—- the creative, innovative, etc—- can’t function, and won’t happen under the Terror-Management of populations we experience now, but the people in charge have no interest in turning that around, or perhaps really do not know how to do it.
“talking in stores”
WTF!?! How in the hell are you supposed to make an intelligent purchase if you don’t? eg. “how do you field strip this pistol?” or “do you have extra magazines available for this model?” or “can I order a 24 pound turkey in time for Thanksgiving?” No smart remarks please. We used to shoot our own geese for dinner.
I thought you girls were supposed to be the experts when it comes to shopping.
“the white “boomers,” must be fleeced but good as they go out”
Good luck with that. You’re not getting any of my money and it’s the younger generations that are going to be hit hardest by Uncle Sugar’s cuts in spending.
Hunter Wallace:
White Nationalism can be described as a kind of proposition nationalism, but it is based on racial reality.
The French Revolution could be described as a proposition revolution, but no one knows what the proposition was. Contrary to what the Jews say today, the French revolution never proclaimed that race-replacement was the way to go. The French revolutionaries were dictatorial nihilists. They saw men as interchangeable pawns, in the same way that a general sees his soldiers as interchangeable pawns. It was the best way to impose dictatorship on the country. The country was carved up in 100 departments, each of them directed by a prefect who could go anywhere in the department in one day’s horse ride. New departments would be added as foreign territory was annexed in Holland and Germany. It was a kind of imperialism. In an imperial system, the government declares itself as the incarnation of “the state”, and becomes the enemy of the nations under its rule. Every institution that may constitute an obstacle between the population and the central power must be destroyed. Men become interchangeable pawns, or interchangeable “citizens”.
It is true that the ideology of the French revolution, with its hostility to tradition, religion, national history, freedom and decentralization, has prepared the way to the Jewish ideology of race-replacement. Today, France’s Jews present themselves as the upholders of France’s Jacobin tradition. But once again, they are lying. Obviously, Robespierre never supported race-replacement.
A quote from Hunter Wallace in the post “White Dream Chaser” :
The French Revolution didn’t directly compromise the racial integrity of France. There were only White people living in France, and no one yet had thought of importing millions of Africans.
The American 1776 declaration of independence, drawn by a bunch of supremacist slave owners, said that “all men are created equal”. A decade later, the 1789 French revolutionaries solemnly published a “declaration of the rights of the man and the citizen”. It said that “men are born and remain free and equal in rights”. It is meaningless nonsense but cannot be interpreted to mean that it is all right to repopulate the Western world with third-worlders. Presumably, it simply meant that the king and the aristocrats were no better than commoners.
My conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with the idea of a White Nationalist Proposition Nation, and it has nothing to do with the garbage theories of the French Revolution.
And also, the American society never constituted a “proposition nation”, no matter what the Jews say. What gave its character to the American society, whether in the South or in the North, was its gene pool, much more than anything written by the so-called “founding fathers” who rebelled against the English monarchy.