VNN Forum
Alex Linder writes:
“It’s one thing to make intellectual arguments for slavery, that’s worth doing for a number of reasons, but it is clear that some at OD wouldn’t mind seeing slavery come back. I just want it made clear that regardless of the economic benefits of slavery, the social value of having no niggers around at all is infinitely more valuable.”
Slavery is not coming back.
The overwhelming majority of negro slaves in the American South, the Caribbean, and Brazil worked on sugar and cotton plantations. I’ve said a million times now that if slavery had simply been left alone that the mechanization of agriculture in the twentieth century would have inevitably eliminated its economic rationale. Then the blacks could have been humanely returned to the European colonies in Africa.
Note: I should probably add here that slavery never really went away. Machines are chattel slaves that use hydrocarbon fuels to do work far more efficiently than free laborers. Slave labor is still superior to free labor in the production of sugarcane and cotton and corn too.
Notice that the champions of “free labor” do not argue that free laborers with a “motive” to improve themselves can possibly economically outcompete the mechanical harvesters which are the chattel property of their masters. This proves that their objection to slavery was based on moral and religious grounds. Not a peep of “anti-slavery” dissent is raised about the unfairness of the enslavement of machines which don’t possess “souls” or “human dignity.”
Slavery was and remains a dynamic engine of human progress that has liberated Westerners from toil and increased their leisure time.
Caldwell: many founders thought exactly the same. Their only opposition to slavery was that it “depressed white, beneficial immigration”. To listen to the left you would think the founders were tearing their hair out over slavery, giving in to the South just long enough to free them all. Pure bunk!
I think Chris must be black. You can’t post on here and stump for union troops (who were there to free blacks) like he does, without a dollop of irony. Doesn’t the flag in the top right kind of give it away?
Wayne,
Agreed, agreed, agreed. The left, and the Lincolnites, deliberately and persistently give an utterly dishonest interpretation of the opposition to slavery. In truth, only a tiny percentage of those opposing slavery did so on moral grounds. The overwhelming majority resisted slavery with the decidedly practical view that no slavery meant no negroes.
Andersonville?!?! Pffft…I’ll see your Andersonville and raise you Elmira. Confederate soldiers fared far worse as POw’s than the Union soldiers ever did.
@John
“I think Chris must be black”
– You also think Missouri is “the South”. You also think America will be “partitioned” and you’ll be aristocrat in Hunter’s imaginary New Dixie. It’s because you’re a fucking little moron. If you have any doubts about what color I am, come pay me a visit.
“You can’t post on here and stump for Union troops..”
– Oh but I can, your Lordship. Here in America, we native-born free men have this thing called the First Amendment, which guarantees us the right to voice our opinions in public discourse. We had to kick your asses in two wars to prove the point. And those Union troops were brave souls who fought nobly for an unpopular cause, and i have the untmost respect for their memory.
“..who were there to free blacks..”
– They were there to defend the North from Southern aggression (like they did at Ft. Sumter, and later at Gettysburg) and preserve the literal union of this country. Without them, there might well not be an America for your sorry foreign ass to squat on today.
“..like he does, without a dollop of irony.”
– And why the hell would that be, Highness? I don’t like niggers in the slightest, but I hate the practice of slavery even more, and I will never apologize for Lincoln having the decency of soul to put an end that cancer.
“Doesn’t the flag in the top right give it away?”
– First of all, it’s NOT YOUR FLAG, so you need not defend it to American natives. Second, that flag wasn’t always on this page, and neither was it there back when I started frequenting OD. If connection to the flag that is displayed on a given website is now the prerequisite for leaving comments, then maybe you shouldgo find a blog with the Union Jack on it.
Chris I’ve explored the battlegrounds in Missouri. I’ve looked around the Arsenal, Camp Jackson (Lindell Grove) I’ve walked up Olive where the Camp Jackson Affair massacres happened. Sherman, Grant, Lyons were all here and the shooting was live. Sherman was a civvie who witnessed the show of Federal muscle. He ran a tram company.
Why would tbe Union have fortified the st Louis Arsenal with bastions, cannon and 5,000 troops if the local population was pro union?
The answer is that the Union understood full well that the locals were Southern infact, by sentiment and in origin.
I, Robot, Terminator, and Battlestar Galactica
@John
I’m not going to keep arguing the same stupid point with you. The standing, undisputed fact is that Missouri rejected the CSA’s claim and remained seated in Congress throughout the war. Missouri was and is Northern, and the Union won the war. Get over it. But, it’s a moot point anyway. So listen very carefully:
You.
Aren’t.
Southern.
So it’s not your long-dead & buried cause to dig up and fight for. Go home and get a life.
Free the toasters!
BTW, domesticated animals are chattel slaves whose genomes have been manipulated for human use.
Chris: glad you brought up Andersonville. Here’s the scoop: when the Union blockaded the South to starve it’s inhabitants the South did what all rational societies do, namely, establish priorities. Soldiers eat first, followed by children, followed by women, followed by elderly, followed by prisoners. I don’t blame the North for the blockad–it was a war after all, but don’t blame the South if POWs were malnourished. Same principle applies for the Allied POWs in WWII.
Moisin said:
Just got off the tractor and came in to discover I’m a slaveowner.
That is the funniest thing I read all day, thanks for that 🙂
Re: Alex
After they got out of the abolition business in 1865, they moved instantly into the “civil rights” and “women’s rights” and “temperance” business. Every crank utopian experiment is inevitably followed by the next one.
Chris: all you have to do to understand why Lincoln started the War Between the States is read his Ghettysburg Address. Read it from the perspective of a Jeffersonian or Anti-federalist like Patrick Henry and you will know why there was dead silence after the speach. It wasn’t due to the community activist’s (which Lincoln was) oratory skills, however great they may have been. It was because the audience perfectly understood the Republic was dead. Kind of like Senator Palpatine’s speach in Star Wars, except without the “thunderous applause”.
BTW, I will be zeroing in on the causes of abolitionism in the next review, and there is a consensus among historians that liberalism (secular humanitarianism) and evangelical Christianity (religious humanitarianism) are at the top of the list. Drescher describes a group called the “Saints” in Britain who were largely responsible for the disastrous free labor experiment in the British West Indies.
It will be interesting to learn why Britain in the 18th century was by far the dominant slave trading nation and poured slaves in Cuba and Guadeloupe and fought to restore slavery in Saint-Domingue, but in the 19th century turned completely against slavery and forced anti-slavery on the other European nations.
There was some kind of major theological change in Britain between 1750 and 1850. I’m pretty sure it was Methodism.
Mowing Nagant: well, I don’t think there will be a movement to free the marginalized, under served, inanimate objects of peace”, but then again, 50 years ago nobody thought sodomy would be a virtue. Never underestimate the insanity of the left–they are evil incarnate.
I’m watching cspan right now. There are Sikhs and whatnot on a committee panel discussing hate crimes. Jesus, the first amendment is under threat.
“First of all, it’s NOT YOUR FLAG, so you need not defend it to American natives.”
Au contraire, it is the flag of the white nation created by men of mostly British origin. As an pro-Southern Englishman, John has as much claim to it as anyone here. Being a petulant boor might blind one to the ethnic ties of English speaking people.
Southern aggression? No amount of perverted Marxist doublespeak can cover up the truth. The north was fighting a war of aggression, whatever cause you claim for them. Southrons were fighting for their homes and to prevent the yankee ambition of turning the South into Haiti. John Brown’s body lies a mouldering in the grave, but his truth is BRA…
The cause of the glorious Union was the intended genocide of white Southerners for the sake of “noble savage” negroes, just as surely as BRA mandates white tax slavery to support indolent negroes.
Of course, white slavery and genocide have always been fine with Turks.
Deo Vindice
John: the sheeple are going to discover too late that a piece of paper did not give them their rights and will not protect them. When the turd word “Americans” are in sufficient numbers the first amendment will be history.
James Jacobs, Dick Durbin, Apu Singh, they run the joint.
@ Hunter
Methodism, you gotta be kidding me. What kinda jew communist catholic socialist propaganda are you reading? Of the three major Methodist branches in America two were Southern, the Methodist Protestant, and the Methodist Episcopal Church South. The Methodist Protestants from a States Rights viewpoint, and the ME Church South from a cultural & religious viewpoint.Biggest mistake—re-unification with the Northern Methodists in 1939.
Although, it is true that the Wesley brothers, who were missionaries to Georgia before slavery in the 1730’s, wanted to keep Negro slaves out of Georgia, in order to encourage White Englishmen to settle in Georgia.
By the same token, other founders of Methodism like George Whitfield, Francis Asbury(?) and others were slave owners.
Hunter wrote: “(S)lavery has been superceded by the enslavement of machines. The term ‘robot’ comes from the Czech word for slave (…) Negro slavery made sense in the 19th century. It doesn’t make any sense in the 21st century. Machines are superior to negro slaves in sugarcane and cotton. If abolitionists had been defeated, negro slavery would have ended….”
I think if it were allowed, lots of folks would still want to own them and find uses for them, even if merely ornamental, household uses.
The etymology of “slave” does not convince me that machines are slaves, but it is a sort of joke?
@ “….Christians oppose communism but they HATE racialism. This puzzled me for the longest time. The answer is that racialism, whether Hitler’s or another form, threatens to supersede their church, because it offers a different and superior worldview or overall-conception, whereas communism will merely oppress the church….”
More to the point maybe, the doctrinal style christianity (roman) is a competing universalist doctrine.
Both that kind of christianity & communism are Proposition Nations, where racialism is not– they share an Idea Based Society, universalism, etc— and as such, they have to persecute those who disagree with them (“heretics” under whatever name).
I used to wonder why catholic nations fell and wound up communist in europe— but once you’ve conquered the human spirit for a universalist IDEA, they will trade one in for the other.
Racialism—- is a whole other way of ordering things. It has no “correct idea,” really, and if anything, the family unit, then extended out to the whole society, is the backbone of it. It’s not a “Proposition Nation.” A White person can think anything. You can have free thought without persecution. But in a christian or communist society, it’s based on agreement of idea, thought, behavior, etc.
DixieGirl is significant (to herself, anyway), and she’s a protestant and disagrees with the pope, lol.
But that’s why the “have a relationship with God” groups (as opposed to the rule-bound doctrine, infallibility folks) tend to be less persecuting, self-flagellating, and to perceive in terms of relationship, not following “the correct idea” or method, etc. (And if you’re outside following that rule, or method, you’re persecuted as a “heretic,” or “racist” today)
Wayne wrote: “Mowing Nagant: well, I don’t think there will be a movement to free the marginalized, under served, inanimate objects of peace.”
Who are these “objects of peace”?
BTW Fair guess, but Mosin was about plowin’ cover crop.
In all the slave societies in the New World, Christianity seems to have accommodated itself to racialism and slavery, but in the non-slave societies, in places like Britain and New England, the opposite seems to be true.
MG: sorry about the “mowing”…damn iPhone spellchecker!
Alex Linder wrote: “So long as we remain christian we will find it impossible to defend ourselves.”
If only we really WERE a truly Christian people and nation, we would not be so cursed. As long as the people are unfaithful, no amount of weapons and not even the best governance can defend them.
He also wrote: “You can say your cause is Southern and not racial but the South doesn’t have the manpower or the brainpower to liberate itself. Put your money on the north and the west. Why? Because, which you all don’t acknowledge, there are (1) more Northerners with Southern racial attitudes than Southerners (2) they are better men – smarter, more fanatical, better educated, better connected than you are None of that is gainsaid by your pointing out the overall figures that show the north a fraction more liberal than the South. Anyway, it’s been a very interesting and informative run through the history of the Caribbean, and I wanted to say I’ve enjoyed it. I just think a lot of the rancor directed at the North, while certainly deserved, is drawing attention away from more interesting and productive areas – like the role of the church in undermining our race through its reality-averse moralizing.”
There is something true in that paragraph, but the last sentence claiming the central role of “the church” in undermining our race is wrong, misleading and blasphemous, since it is not the true church (of Christ) at all but the apostate versions that undermine, etc.
“Yes, the pope agrees that racism is evil and racists are immoral. Well that settles in then. He’s god’s vicar on earth. Right? And I don’t know of any significant Protestants who disagree.”
Alex, you’re fibbing. I believe we HAVE met- when I used to post over at your forum, until the Christophobes ganged up and started ‘hatin’ on me. It seems you and your ilk cannot get over the fact that Rome and her whoring sisters (see your remark, above) are NOT Christianity. I grant you, it’s a great trick of deception, that has lasted 1000 years. But a simple talk to a Russian or Greek Orthodox priest (if they are being honest) would cure you of that- and then, where would all this misplaced hate go to?
Nowhere. So, you continue to lie and pontificate, while never coming to a knowledge of the Truth. At least HW is willing to learn. You, on the other hand? You’re the Jews willing shabbas goy, because you refuse to fight their talmudic fire with the only fire that ever won out over the Deicides – and that event happened Easter Sunday, over 1900 years ago.
“@ Hunter – Methodism, you gotta be kidding me. What kinda jew communist catholic socialist propaganda are you reading?” – Earlmundo
If one only realizes that, apart from Whitefield (who was old-school C of E calvinist) the Wesleys’ Arminianism ESTABLISHED the perfectionistic creed of the later Abolitionists. It also removed the predestination of races (as in the verse, “Can the leopard change his spots, or the Ethiope his skin, etc.”) from men’s consciousness, and established the footing the Romanists (cf. Dixieg, above) were waiting for, to start the swarm of shanty Irish into Puritan New England. With the removal of Calvinist orthodoxy, it was not too long before (as I noted some weeks ago) that the CULTS started in- Mormons, SDA’s, Eddyites, etc. ALL of whom are ARMINIAN in their soteriology- the ‘save yourself by your own bootstraps’ mindset. That error is TOTALLY rife within the Yankee Supremacist ideology.
HW< I believe you are not only correct, but DAMNED correct!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html
this is devastating polling. You’d like to see him getting a few swing states. Fugging hell what is happening?
http://conservativetimes.org/?p=12245
Other thoughts, other insights.
This has become such an idiotic website. I thought it was prowhite,, and pro Confederate in the sense of the South should be its own nation after 15o years (=the Civil War Centennial).We get Fr.John + the crackpot so called Orthodox..what priest? This idiot claims that all off the problems we as whites face today is a result of the idiotic dispute over the “filioque” doctrine.. and the Arminian heresy…Jeez,,,are you kidding??? This asshole would be rejected by any self-respecting Orthodox church anywhere in the world. Well why don’t you and Dixiegirl get ,married..she hates Catholics as much as you did. I bet she’s an ugly bitch whose ancestors never served the Confederacy like mine did
Dixiegirl is an idiot who hates Catholics. I destest the present stance of Catholic bishops but I destest stupid broads like ” Dixiegirl” who make use southerners look like idiots, She’s probable about 200 pounds. And hey you fat Dixiedyke,,my great grandpappy fought with Stonewall Jackson at Chancellorsville..what did your people do you fat fraud??
In other words ,,this site has ceased to be one worth visiting..Refighting theological disputes of the 4th century…the 30 years war…Jeezzzzz…totally worthless site!!
@Publis I seriously doubt that your great-grandfather was with Jackson, unless you are around 100 years old. Maybe, your great-great grandfather if you are in your mid-sixties. LOL.
Then unless you are from the French section of Louisana, or the easternshore of Maryland, chances of yourConfederate ancestor being Roman Catholic are a little better than zero. He may have been a Protestant and possibly your father became a Roman Catholic?
Dixiegirl has given some thought to these issues, and she is an authentic voice.
And Publius- While I don’t need someone to verify my credentials, my wife of 20-plus years and I don’t need matchmaking advice from you, tyvm.
As to the ‘sole’ cause of the current woes, those are your words, not mine. But the simple fact that most Westerners have never even considered that one’s theology informs one’s politics, is the simple refrain the Church has made, until she decided to adopt the spirit of the age- which both Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox writers have noted for the last, oh, seventy-five years.
Your myopia is exceeded only by your ignorance… or your bile.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html
“this is devastating polling. You’d like to see him getting a few swing states. Fugging hell what is happening?”
John- two or three observations.
One: we no longer live in a free country anymore (duh).
– It’s become a rubber-stamp Bolshevik state, with either Judaic self-interest cadre (R), or a rabid hatred of Christianity cadre of NWO types (D), who see themselves as God, determining ‘good’ and ‘evil’. (Good=fag marriage, evil=obscurantist Xtians)
Two: these polls are there to bolster up the worst president on record, (and to make the common man despair) in order to assure his winning, before the fact- simply because the Dems can’t stand losing, and their ‘boy’ is such a complete washout, they have to resort to all sorts of shenanigans. Megalomaniacs are like that- they’re very sore losers..
Three: It’s God’s judgment on the USA. Posters here who are Christophobes (and we know who you are) will find that thought repugnant, but it must be spoken. And I guess I’m the man to speak truth to power. Sin demands sacrifice. IF we deny Christ, then we shall be the sacrificial lamb- and our corporate sacrifice won’t be efficacious- it never is. But seventy years of Babylonian captivity in Russia ended- perhaps we can expect a like gracious scourge from the hands of YHWH God.
We’re not the first nation to have sinned against God, but we are the most current/blasphemous. That Golden Dawn has now opened an Office in NYC, and the Jewmeisters have tried to: lie, obfuscate, deny internet service, instill/foment violence, and, via all their usual tactics, demonize a valid nationalist European voice, clearly indicates that some are unwilling to go down this path- but only those Greeks who see the Turk at their door, and the Papal west doing what they have always done- screw them in the back, while the Greeks stand alone.
The fools in the USA, however, are not only willing to throw over Christ and His Kingdom, they voted in an incarnational satan already, four years ago. While not the Antichrist, he’s the stepinfetchit for him. Sho ’nuff.
So, we either rise up in rebellion, with our guns loaded and ready to defend our persons and our ‘sacred honor’ come November, or we secede- or we start America’s Golden Dawn, here and now. We have come to the pencil’s end.
Point.
Match.
But not game…. yet.
“White folks need to kill the idea that negros are human. That’s yankee thinking and does our kind no good”
Well, if we’re all going to be so arbitrary about it, some may decide that southron racists aren’t human and that thinking they are does nobody any good. Silver
It’s already happened, and has been happening for a very long time. Have you seen how the yankee media portrays us and for how long? However, Whites didn’t do stupid shit like give niggers rights when we as a race viewed them as nonhuman. As long as you thing they are human folks will keep on doing all the BRA shit we dislike here. So you can go on with the silly notion negros, beaners etc are human which will only extend the life span of the notion they have equal rights, make good citizens, have a right to be in the usa etc or you can deny they are human and act accordingly. It really is that simple
There is no beneficial immigration. These immigration debates have been going on for a very long time in the usa. Right now it’s about mexicans, how they change our culture and lower native born White wages, which is what they said about the ethnic Whites 100+ years ago. There is nothing new under the sun
Some may decide…
Hehehe. White working class voters in the south along with bougeoise white thereare not considered human already by “some”.
In various films they have been depicted as Vampires(Lincoln Vampire slayer)
cripples(Wild Wild West) dead meat(Django In Chains) or as hooded Klan(Mississippi burning, Brother where art thou) or more generally as a Corpse strewn backdrop for Lincoln’s Negrophilia as the disingenuous words of the Gettysburg address reverberate.
The Democratic party makes no effort to appeal to Southern white working classes, and barely does so with northern whites unless they happen to live in Ohio in two or three districts. The picture they have of Southern whites is a fun house mirror of bad history and excremental films.
The dehumanization
that should read There is no beneficial large scale immigration
“that should read There is no beneficial large scale immigration”
Good Lord, Stone is turning absolutely cosmopolitan!!!
Alex is dead nuts right. An all White society with no slaves is best. The blacks should have their own country, their own economy, and I wish them well but would not sacrifice one dollar or one White life for the whole race of them.
One is reminded of Otto von Bismarck’s comment that a certain colony was “Not worth the bones of one Prussian grenadier”.
How are hispanics not human? You in a way could make an argument blacks aren’t, but mestizos? Getting the impression Stonelifter thinks behavior and intelligence is the sole arbiter of humanness and is the kind of brainless, overly emotional “hick” we don’t want on our side.
It makes killing easier. That’s all.
That’s how I interpret it anyway.
Chris313 says:
“I’m not going to keep arguing the same stupid point with you. The standing, undisputed fact is that Missouri rejected the CSA’s claim and …”
I have a friend who just got back from working some five months in Missouri. I have never spoken with him on politics or ideology, much less pro white advocacy or pro-Confederacy issues. Whatever may have been the case in the past, what he had to say about the people he worked with there and were natives, flat contradicts your statement. He says they were all racist, pro confederate, anti-nigger and hated Northerners. Have you spent months living in Missouri lately and getting to know the people who actually live there? I’m just asking.
“they are better men – smarter, more fanatical, better educated, better connected than you are None of that is gainsaid by your pointing out the overall figures that show the north a fraction more liberal than the South. ”
I’m afraid Alex Linder is suffering from the same problem the has been the ruin of many a man. He has read too many books on certain subjects written by certain writers and not supplemented or checked what he has read against actually living, working and practicing the subject of the books. In other words, he has read too many inaccurate books on the North and the people there and never apparently spent much time in the North. He has a fantastic picture of the North in his head.
Another example is how he has been writing encomiums about German farmers. He is under the impression that the German family runs the largest farms all by themselves. Not so.
Linder also has a naive and fantastic view of the American Businessman. This comes straight from Right Wing propaganda. Much positive can be said about self made men, but the Right Wing has a fantastic picture of the virtues of these men. Linder also seems to be unaware that much of the big business he carries water for is as guilty of forcing the government to grant them monopolies as unions are. Most recently he displayed a total ignorance of companies like Lockheed Martin and how they get contracts.
BTW, my comments on Alex Linder are NOT derived from the quote I used that was taken from this site and the poster who used it. My comments are based on long term reading at his site.
St Louis clearly maintains vestiges of its Confederate history. It isn’t hard to find. It’s Also got the white equivalent of MLK, Grant’s Farm, his tomb in the Botanical Garden.
Lyons has a monument here.
Oddly enough SLU is built over Camp Jackson. “Catholics” erasing other deeper history. The Arsenal is a mapping survey service these days adjacent to the Busch brewery. The place was flooded with “Yankees” to suppress the southern sympathetics. It took the Germans who blitzed in here and expropriated land a while to figure out the nature of the nig, but they did.