United States, 1850
Great stuff … it sheds light on the 313Chris vs. Stonelifter feud.
Welcome back to our series on manly honor. Today we tackle Southern honor in the 19 th century. Now, be prepared: this is and will be the longest post in the series by far. The complexity of traditional honor and its various cultural manifestations cannot possibly be underestimated, nor can the difficulty in distilling these complexities into an accessible, coherent narrative. We have done our best with that task so far, and here as well; however, understanding Southern honor requires a more in-depth exploration. We could have just sketched out the very basics, but truly grasping those basics necessitates an understanding of the framework which underlies them. Also, as we shall see, because the South’s culture of honor still influences that region today, it’s a good subject to become knowledgeable about if you want to understand the country. Plus, it’s just really interesting! …
In our last post, I said that Northern and Southern honor would be covered in one article, and that future posts would be shorter. Neither turned out to be true. Well, this one is a little shorter, but we’re giving Northern and Southern honor their own posts – there’s just too much interesting stuff to cover. And as all my projections have been wrong thus far, I will refrain from making any more moving forward. Just come along for the ride!
An exploration of honor in the American North during the 19 th century offers a fascinating framework from which to build on and expand many of the concepts we discussed in our post on Victorian England’s Stoic-Christian honor code, while also digging into the tensions that emerged as a result of its creation – tensions that are still with us today. So if you haven’t read that post yet, I recommend doing so before jumping into this one….
Good selection, Tamer, and I’ll second it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-bIhTwI7OU
Mosin Nagant says:
December 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm
None of your quotes mention White people at all.
That was originally your statement. You are quoting yourself. I don’t see the point.
Tamer of Savages says:
December 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm
“Time to post a youtube video tailor-made for people like you, by an oddball but good egg former Jew turned Orthodox Christian.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-bIhTwI7OU
A Jew cannot change his race by converting to Christianity and neither can a Black, Mexican or Asian, turn into a White person by becoming Christian.
You Wordists believe that and it is sheer nonsense.
You have both made my point about Wordism. You are loyal to words not White people.
Honor is just a word with which Southrons flatter themselves. Being barbarians, they enjoy sporting shiny things.
Mosin Nagant says:
December 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm
“That was originally your statement. You are quoting yourself. I don’t see the point.”
My point for the third time:
None of your Bible quotes mention White people at all.
“A Jew cannot change his race by converting to Christianity and neither can a Black, Mexican or Asian, turn into a White person by becoming Christian.”
I agree. White Jews don’t become black when they accept Christ. They stay white.
@Tamer of Savages
You Jews say you are a race or a religion, depending on the argument you are having at the time.
I don’t see any White people in the Middle East, they are all Brown, Jews say they are from the Middle East, they claim it is their ancestral home, so they are not White.
Sorry.
…because the “your” Bible or anyone’s Bible doesn’t contain the word, but similar expressions such as “sons of Japheth,” “Greeks and barbarians,” etc. The discussion was about concepts of honour, and how our White, Western, Occidental, Christian concept is distinctly different from and superiour to all others.
My point for the forth time:
None of YOUR Bible quotes mention White people at all.
All your quotes are universalism. I could go to a Black church and hear exactly the same quotes.
“My point for the third time: None of your Bible quotes mention White people at all.”
Should one not quote from the (“your”) Bible?
Jews are not White. They are Asiatics. Runner Away from Savages just looooooves Jews. He also has sexual fantasies about his cousin.
Quotes are quotes. Faithful translation and interpretation of the original language is what it is. If Black people hear the same message, so be it.
I was singing “Hosanna” when I read your message, calling me a Jew.
Thanks for letting me know you’re a dung-beetle that should be ignored.
Please roll your smelly ball somewhere else like a good BUGSer or whatever you are.
I don’t know Kapner, nor Black preacher Pastor Manning, and I cannot say whether either one is sincere or not.
Denise is the spinster Aunt that keeps track of everyone’s business.
In real life for many, MANY years. And now, on the internet.
Let’s return to the topic of concepts of honour now, in good spirit, lest the depressing “Moderation” (censorship) also return. We can all state and understand our positions.
Of course, you don’t see White people in the Middle East – Anti Whites Are Evil.
From ancient times the great empires descended from Babylon that arose there engaged in slaving, deportation, ethnic cleansing and population replacement.
The Assyrians of the great empire of Shalmanser and Sargon etc clearly depict the racial physiogamy of the dominant people of those empires: dark complexion, prominent nose, thick bushy negoid hair and beard dressed in what we would call ‘rasta’ and ‘corn rows’.
The people who look like us are also depicted on those steles. They are not designated as ‘White people’ but clearly our race and physiogamy is also depicted by the royal Assyrian craftsmen on the steles that record tribute and slaves.
The Black Obelisk of Shalamaneser III in the British Museum depicts the slaves taken from what they called Bith Khumree (as in Cymry) that is Beth Omri (House of Omri King of Israel). Put any one of those fellows in Western dress and he would pass as another White European in any European capitol.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=black+obelisk+of+shalmaneser+iii&num=10&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=479&tbm=isch&tbnid=Fh2Ys7hkn-aoLM:&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Black_Obelisk-_Israelite_tribute_bearers.jpg&docid=xrDXBVr9WtAQmM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Black_Obelisk-_Israelite_tribute_bearers.jpg&w=670&h=447&ei=hcrgUKCPC-ndigeRi4GQBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=706&vpy=142&dur=5953&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=128&ty=136&sig=107798103573181230330&page=5&tbnh=153&tbnw=230&start=66&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:70,s:0,i:304
Population deportation began out of Israel from approx 800 B.C. as Assyria raided into the North Kingdom. “And Pul (Tiglath pilesar III) came against Israel. And Menahem (there is your 5th column enabler) gave Pul 1,000 talents of silver that his hand might be with him…” II Kings 15:19
The North Kingdom fell in 722 BC with the entire population removed into Assyria.
On a more humorous note, the Black Obelisk in the British Museum in London (for crying out loud) is labeled as a depiction of the captives of Northern Israel as ‘Jews’ – as in (Y)Idumeans of Judea – and claims that they were taken into Assyria and ‘lost’ there never again to emerge on the world stage. And this according to the British Museum.
Cymry are the British – the same Beth Khumree depicted on that stele.
No hard feelings Mosin.
Bob Whitaker is a Christian himself and he is able to pull quotes out of the Bible proving that Jesus believed in race. However he is also very critical of St Paul, calling his version of Christianity, a degenerate form of Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism used to state explicitly, it was a religion for Aryans only (whatever an Aryans was by their standards). But eventually Zoroastrianism degenerated into Wordism and self hate, before it almost vanished altogether. Now if you visit a Zoroastrian website, they take great pains to explain that they welcome all races, which is proof they were once racially exclusive.
By putting Wordism on the table, it is very easy to smoke anti-Whites out. They have no where to go with Wordism. As for how this discussion started it is because the article points out that Northern honor is about loyalty to words and Southern honor is about loyalty to one’s own people. I know which one I prefer.
I should have said, Northern Upper Class Honor, is about loyalty to abstract concepts, rather than loyalty to your own people.
@Lynda
It may be those areas were once White, from Whites migrating South from Europe during the last Ice Age. However, Jews have freely published genetic maps comparing their DNA to other racial groups and it is quite clearly isolated in a cluster all on its own.
The only time they identify as White, is when they are justifying all White countries being flooded with non-Whites, or when it is economically advantageous for them to do so. When it is advantageous for them to be a minority, they become Jews once again.
Not that I dislike Jews, I don’t care about them enough to hate them. I only discuss them, because I want for Whites what they already have. An ethnic outpost all of their very own.
As this is way off topic, I expect it will be deleted. lol
I don’t subscribe to, and I do not defend the extremely prideful, Calvinistic, wealth-displaying “Northern Upper Class Honor” — nor the swearing, drinking, gambling, whoring, fighting “northern lower class honor” — nor the “medieval,” blood-identified, might-makes-right “honor” — all of which are described in that article. The article simply failed to mention what is TRULY White, Western, CHRISTIAN honour.
I don’t care about any “loyalty to abstract principles” called “wordism,” but only loyalty to The Word, which “was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
Mosin, as a descendant of ethnic Catholics who didn’t start arriving in the United States until the very-late 1800s, I probably can’t claim the title Pennsylvanian as solidly as you can; but still, you make me proud to be a Pennsylvanian.
Thank you, John Bonaccorsi, friend, in the land of the Welsh Barony and Cambria, Penns Heiliges Experiment, und das Gelobte Land der Deutschen.
there is no honor among yankees as their love for the negro an war on Southron White children has proven. the yankee has been at this war since about the 1820′ s. their actions and “honor” are a proven thing. they are a foul, vile people and their is no word in the English-language to describe how low they are
Chris, send me your real contacts info and I’ll be there in a bit, but I’ m not going up there to meet a 17 year old boy living 22 miles from the old couple’s address you provided.
@AWAE: Zarathustra’s religion was a reaction to the Browning Out of Aryans in India and the parallel mixing of Vedic religion with the the demonic gods of the brown natives. Zarathustra called his people to arta (righteousness) and purity in thought, words, deeds, and ritual. Zarathustra was a priest of the vedic god of light and fire and reconcieved that god as Ahura Mazda in line with older and neglected aryan notions of a chief deity.
@AWAE: Zarathustra and King Gustab were able to establish an effective western firewall against Brown Out and paved the way for the Unification of Iran under a system of justice and morals that allowed that nation to prosper to such an extent that it
@AWAE: was able not only to defeat more ancient and decadent neighbors in battle, but to also earn their loyalty thanks to just laws and forge an empire (see also Rome, Great Britain and America). It was the needs of the empire that transformed arta into a universal code, rather than an explicitly Aryan code. (See also Rome, Britain, and America) This lead to the Browning Out of Zoroastrian Iran and their eventual final death at the hands of Imam Uthman, the third successor of Muhammad. Despite the rescuing of Iran from its empire by Alexander, the damage had all ready been done. (See also Rome, Britain and America)
@Stonelifter
Cut the crap, would you? You took the time to look up my address on Google satellite maps, and then sent me an email insulting my house and my neighborhood, so you know damn well that I live exactly where I told you. And just for the record, it’s going on 3 months now, since you promised that you were “on your way”. You’re a coward and a phony.
Mosin Nagant: Then you have no reason to complain when Haitians, Nigerians, and Mexicans dominate your hometown, state, or country, right? I mean, as long as they are Christians, right? And since we are all one in Christ you have absolutely zero reason to deny them your sons and daughters, right? Same for you, John B.
Christianity has been totally hijacked for universal, global socialism. Soon the only Christian value will be “tolerance”.
@ Wayne: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ethnic-cleansing-the-welsh-way-a-militant-nationalist-group-has-given-19-english-families-an-ultimatum-leave-wales-by-1-march-or-be-burned-out-peter-dunn-reports-1471584.html
Inter-ethnic is the first step to inter-racial.
Wayne, where do YOU stand on interethnic, intercultural INTRA-racial mixing? Remember, it is the first step to inter-racial, down the accelerating slope to race-less, homogeneous global population.
You confuse eternal existence with the temporal. In heaven there is neither male nor female, either, but all are like the angels.
Miscegenation is confusion, and carnal lust, which is sin. Whatever “christianity” has but one value, tolerance for sin, is not the Christianity of the Bible, Wayne. I would appreciate your comment on the article linked above.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/jude-rogers-the-welsh-language-is-too-precious-to-be-allowed-to-disappear-6943218.html Preservation/conservatism seems to be failing everywhere against the campaign of global multiculturalism.
@ “….Christianity has been totally hijacked for universal, global socialism. Soon the only Christian value will be “tolerance”.
Don’t forget “forgiveness.” A “good Christian” forgives the criminals who harm their families and see this as an opportunity to pray the criminal can be saved—- and this is done in front of the remaining family members.
This style of “forgiveness” is even more important than “tolerance.”
There must be Great Public Expressions of how much a “christian” does not care if their own family or own children are destroyed.
(“Out of order is chaos!!!”—- Even the worst things are our great opportunities!!! We LOVE enemies!!!)—- all a total perversion of what was meant (obviously).
Bob Whitaker would probably say there is something awful in White genetics, very old and very deep, that was there BEFORE all these civilizations began to demise. A strange need for “self abasement” self-abnegation, a will to not live, to ask, unlike others, is life even worth living?
In reality, White self-abasement might just have to do with them having enough of things others strive for (material goods) and also learning in many areas, i.e., internal wealth, as well as feeling powerful— so then they turn to philanthropy, and it becomes societally in vogue to be SEEN as helping others, or to maybe even genuinely do so.
At first, it doesn’t seem they are hurting themselves by helping others.
That changed: statistics about giving charity show they feel they have helped enough, nowadays, and feel the state takes their money to help others, so why should they bother to do more?
“A “good Christian” forgives the criminals who harm their families and see this as an opportunity to pray the criminal can be saved—- and this is done in front of the remaining family members. ”
A good Christian might pursue vigilante justice. And failing that might pray for the soul of the criminal before and after he is executed.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aWNUoaQmjqo/TNXFbmrEMSI/AAAAAAAAI68/wyN1aV7VMys/s1600/lynching5.jpg
Re: “it becomes societally in vogue to be SEEN as helping others”:
On the mark. Very perceptive. It is a manifestation of the sin of pride.
Afterthought — Your explication of the role of Zoroastrianism in the rise and fall of Persia knocked me out. Is that your own analysis, or have you encountered it? If the latter, where?
Two other questions: You twice typed “arta.” Is that a typo, for “arya”? Who is “King Gustab”?
Mosin Nagant: I´ll take you up on your challenge, but have to board a plane here soon. I look forward to reading your link.
Afterthought: I´ve read a good portion of the Zoroaster religious texts, it was mostly about the pollution of death and what to do with dead bodies. Do you have a reference for furhter reading? My understanding is that Zoraoastrianism is the original monotheistic religion, from which the other 3 come.
Vlad Tepes is MY ideal of a Great Christian Hero. I always ask myself, “WWVD?” “What Would Vlad Do?”
Forgiveness for sin means NOTHING without genuine and sincere petinence, on the part of the wrong-doer. Forgiveness without genuine remorse on the past of the wrong-doer, is an exercise in evil, on the part of the wronged, in fact. It’s an exercise in Luciferian Pride.
Dixiegirl – a Christian society such as once existed in the West executed those who had murdered families if convicted of such a crime
This duty of state does not exclude prayers for the convicted to repent of their crimes before God. Mothers are notorious for this sort of prayer. But it does not change the duty of state under God’s law to execute murderers.
Lynda says:
Dixiegirl – a Christian society such as once existed in the West executed those who had murdered families if convicted of such a crime…”
No kidding, Lynda.
“Good Christian” and “forgiveness” were in quotes in my comment, the point of which you missed. And since I’m at it— the whole idea OF WHAT FORGIVENESS IS has been rearranged.
It’s not “forgiveness—yes or no” as Denise has it. What the average idiot “christian” even thinks FORGIVENESS IS, is all wrong nowadays. Start grilling them: “what exactly IS forgiveness? How does it work? What is the process of it? How do you know when it’s correctly accomplished, is it for the sinner who is unredeemed? The soul of the forgivER? etc, etc, etc—
—and you will quickly find that few “christians” have given ten minutes thought to this. Or if they have, any thinking person could knock their muddy thoughts out in no time. Frequently, they don’t even get the question.
–the idea that words can have various meanings (outside their own little narcissistic cosmology) hasn’t even yet occurred to them. And yet, they may be Great Northeast Sophisticates. (In real sophistication, you’d have to notice others exist, LOL.)
How many Northeasterners can even identify three different kinds of southern accent and from where they originate? Same with “forgiveness.” It is an “either-or” or “yes or no” proposition, with no capacities to discuss meaning, changing meaning, history of words, etc., why they change. Well, anyway, lol.
Wow… am a little bitchy, lol. Due to the Late Night, it being New Year’s. Hair of the dog might be in order.
Dixie – bless you. I stayed stone cold sober last night. First time in years. A true Celt must honor their heritage with blessed communion with the fruit of the vine, and liquid gold of the hop! I will be doing that today.
The “Stiff upper lip” stoicism of anglo-saxon northerners has nothing in common with “urban” gangbanger “honor culture”.
It’s been said before but bears repeating that much of nigger “culture” was ripped off from the southern aristocrats they looked up to. Nigger culture and blood feuds are a highly stylized version of old-tyme southern culture, it has nothing in common with northern WASPs.
Haha, you just said niggers ripped off their violence from southerners? RU SRYUS? What’s the niggers in Africa’s excuse?
My point for the forth time:
None of YOUR Bible quotes mention White people at all.
All your quotes are universalism. I could go to a Black church and hear exactly the same quotes.
Actually, there’s tons of racism in the Bible. Judaism is the world’s pioneering work of ethnocentric religion.
E.g., there’s a passage in the OT about how the people shall only elect rulers for themselves from among their own. I.e., their own race/tribe.
God certainly puts his stamp of approval on ethnic cleansing, racialism, racist genocide, etc., throughout the Bible. In fact, he commands these things.
Re: Old Testamentalism:
The Old Testament is to be interpreted in the light of the New Testament. “Pulling quotes” from the Old out of the context of the New is not good. The Bible is neither a political science nor a biology text.