Virginia
I found these two gems of Confederate wisdom on the League of the South Facebook page:
“Wherever you find the negro, everything is going down around him, and wherever you find the white man, you see everything around him improving.”
– Robert E. Lee to Thomas Carter, April 15, 1865
Paul Kersey arrived at the same conclusion in Escape From Detroit: The Collapse of America’s Black Metropolis and Black Mecca Down: The Fall of the City Too Busy Too Hate:
“You will never prosper with the blacks, and it is abhorrent to a reflecting mind to be supporting and cherishing those who are plotting and working for your injury, and all of whose sympathies and associations are antagonistic to yours. I wish them no evil in the world – on the contrary, will do them every good in my power, and know that they are misled by those to whom they have given their confidence; but our material, social, and political interests are naturally with the whites.”
– Robert E. Lee to R.E. Lee, Jr., March 19, 1868
145 years later, Rainbow Confederates are still frustrated that the blacks are “misled by those to whom they have given their confidence,” but refuse to draw the conclusion that “our material, social, and political interests are naturally with the whites.”
Robert E. Lee was encouraging his son to replace the hostile free negroes on his farm with White laborers. In “Robert E. Lee on African-Americans,” we also saw that Lee testified before Congress in favor of removing the blacks from Virginia altogether.
Note: This is why I started my new website Confederate Renaissance to stimulate a revival of Confederate thought in the modern South.
One of the jokes, in a way, is that MARX’s endless kvetching over the “petit bourgeois” was all about how they could not act IN THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST.
Marx saw “Acting in one’s Interest” as the goal—- so wouldn’t he love White Pride?
It was the insight that the “petit bourgeois” was voting with “elites” when they were not “elites” that led to the Gramscian idea to intervene in Education—and Re-educate the “ignorant masses” (in what Gramsci, Trotsky and the rest THOUGHT should be their “self interest.” Which is incredibly presumptuous. But it would “prepare them to vote in the right way for the Great Utopia!)
In U.S. “Identity politics” (race as driver of politics)— totally replaced the “class consciousness” meme of MARXISM, and the “Re-education of the Ignernt Masses” is now to force Whites to perceive outside their own Self-Interest, as if they are non-whites.
No one discusses the Silence– how “class” in the Marxist cosmos just HAPPENED to have transformed into “Race”—- Why can people only be “equal” if one group consistently has it’s belongings, and the work of their own hands, taken away and parsed out to other groups?
Central Planning (to redistribute things) is necessary for “equality,” lol.
Racial Redistribution as a WAY OF LIFE? No wonder Whites refuse to have children.
Lee was correct. They conspire at all times toward your destruction
This is why I started my new website Confederate Renaissance to stimulate a revival of Confederate thought in the modern South.
How are those quotes from Lee Confederate thought, Mr. W.? They’re more like post-Confederate thought. If you want Confederate thought, try this specimen from Leonidas Spratt:
“With that perfect economy of resources, that just application of power, that concentration of forces, that security of order which results to slavery from the permanent direction of its best intelligence, there is no other form of human labor that can stand against it, and it will build itself a home and erect for itself, at some point within the present limits of the Southern States, a structure of imperial power and grandeur–a glorious Confedracy of States that will stand aloft and serene for ages amid the anarchy of democracies that will reel around it.”
(Conclusion of first full paragraph, page 3, http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/secession/secession.html )
I don’t think you’ve erred here in misrepresenting Lee’s post-defeat rethinking of the Negro question as Confederate thought. I think you’re in bad faith–a liar. That is why I continue to post here, at Occidental Dissent. You Southrons are incapable of telling the truth; you have no honor. In the lead-up to the Civil War, you kept trying to switch the conversation away from slavery; for the century-and-a-half since, you’ve been trying the same switch. Should you secede from the United States and then prosper, as the North declines into the polyracialism and socialism of the liberals, you might well end up as the only white polity on Earth–but you’ll still be bums.
PS Lest I seem to have contradicted myself by quoting Leonidas Spratt’s encomium of slavery and then charging Southrons with evasion of that subject, I’ll note that I’ve already remarked, here at Occidental Dissent, that Spratt and Hinton Helper (who was opposed to slavery) were the South’s only honest men.
Lee’s postwar comments are fully consistent with the mainstream of Confederate thought on the Negro Question:
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/04/14/confederate-history-month-2012-the-alternative-a-separate-nationality-or-the-africanization-of-the-south-1861/
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/04/04/confederate-history-month-2012-stephen-f-hales-letter-to-kentucky/
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/09/24/caribbean-project-haiti-the-british-west-indies-and-the-souths-mirror/
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/03/22/debows-review-on-african-americans/
Throughout the antebellum era and the Confederacy, White Southerners and the Slave Interest in the British Caribbean were convinced that negroes were useless as free laborers, and would be a burden to civilization in any other condition but slavery.
It was Yankees who glorified the free labor system and who made ludicrous arguments that slavery had crippled the Southern economy and that there would be an explosion in their productivity following the demise of slavery. That old chestnut was actually one of the favorite arguments of the abolitionists in Britain and the United States.
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/09/22/the-province-of-freedom-free-labor-vs-slave-labor-in-sierra-leone/
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/09/26/caribbean-project-review-the-mighty-experiment/
There was no change in attitude toward the free negro in the South. Before and after the war, Southerners were convinced that free negroes were naturally indolent and prone to criminality, and that slavery had artificially elevated them by providing them with a master that restrained their self destructive impulses while forcing them to engage in productive labor.
The rapid depreciation of property value and the swift decline of the health and productivity of negro free laborers convinced postwar planters their estimate of the negro character was dead on accurate.
Before the war, most Southern states had passed laws requiring manumitted free negroes to move out of state.
Lee’s postwar comments are fully consistent with the mainstream of Confederate thought on the Negro Question
Lee’s statements quoted by you in your original post, Mr. W., deftly avoid the use of the adjective “free,” in modification of “negro” or “blacks”; so, as I say, he’s being evasive–lying–as are you.
John B, can you possibly simplify your exact point to something understandable to a self-educated man like me? I understand that you’re hostile to the Confederacy and all that but what’s with all of the slavery stuff? You aren’t seriously suggesting that wars are prosecuted for moral reasons, are you?
You seem inordinately hung up on Spratt for some reason. Please explain – in simple terms.
What, specifically, are the “lies” you speak of? War prop?
I want to understand your point, whatever it is. I just can’t decipher it as yet. Help me.
You aren’t hung up on the American interpretation of “freedom”, are you?
Robert E. Lee was a slaveowner.
Like every other slaveowner, he was familiar with the difference between free negroes and slaves, and the ruin that abolition would certainly bring to Virginia. Lincoln was assassinated on the day Lee wrote the first letter.
John B. is an egalitarian. It’s his religion and he worships it out of pure faith that it actually exists somewhere, though can be found nowhere in nature. He believes all men are equal and should be free. There is no distinction to him among the definition of freedom, he believes like the Neocons that any people can be given the magic injection of freedom and democracy and become social democrats and Walmart shoppers.
John B., you see, is sooooo much morally superior to us. He’d rather see Africans starve as live in slavery. But I’ll wager he’s never been to Haiti.
Robert E.Lee settle the issue of Slaves before and during the civil war when he had the opportunity? Had he done so, he would have alienated his Aristocrats plantation purse.
You aren’t seriously suggesting that wars are prosecuted for moral reasons, are you?
It would be nice to think they aren’t, wouldn’t it, Bill? That way, you could continue avoiding the question of the morality of slavery. The question whether blacks can live satisfactorily, in freedom, among whites, is separate from the question whether blacks–or any other beings–should be enslaved. The answer to both questions is no, which is why blacks and whites should not be living with each other under any circumstances whatsoever.
John B. is an egalitarian. It’s his religion and he worships it out of pure faith that it actually exists somewhere, though can be found nowhere in nature. He believes all men are equal and should be free. There is no distinction to him among the definition of freedom, he believes like the Neocons that any people can be given the magic injection of freedom and democracy and become social democrats and Walmart shoppers.
That’s not accurate, Wayne. All I’ve said is that whites should not be enslaving anyone.
He’d rather see Africans starve as live in slavery.
Correct.
While I have my sharp crits of the South, I have to contest Bonaccorsi’s point on the CSA becoming a lazy nation after secession. It won’t. When no longer suppressed by the titanic force of Washington DC Federalism, Southerns can finally do their own nation building that was held back since the Constitution. If, well, also, that the South roots out its traitorous elite that were in clandestine operation with Yankee elite to keep the Southern poor in frequent starvation, the non-growth middle class, and severly limited the power of the existing middle class politically and nationally, and hook themselves up to a driving force like that of California’s in the 20th century, shall risen the West aborning anew. Yankees had their chance to rebuild and even attempt erasure of Southern culture during Reconstruction by a nation revival scheme much like on Japan by the US in 1945 but continued their eternal antagonism, pseudo-punishment for slavery, and just seemed for another reason of a Freudian slip wanted those evvvvvviiiiilllllll Southerners to remain typically Southern and the South and eternally blame them for this genocidal onslaught. That’s a lot like Baby Boomers, who wrecked America, but eternally blame Gen Y for the whole Fall.
I have to contest Bonaccorsi’s point on the CSA becoming a lazy nation after secession.
When I said “bums,” I didn’t mean “lazy,” spiritus. I meant dishonest.
Mr. Bonaccorsi is the only person here making sense. There’s a reason only Euromericans read this site. That reason is when someone speaks black truth to white power like Mr. Bonaccorsi he’s run out of town. We blacks might not be as successful yet as yu whites but it is like President Johnson said about starting a race in chains. After a few more generations things will even out and the Bonaccorsi kids might not be lily white but they’ll be the bosses of all your racist white trailer kids.
As a black man I can say we never liked poor whites they were always racist. Wealthy whites helped out black folks. The racists such as yourselves fear the black man, that’s why you try to oppress us. But things are changing and racism is discredited by science. Most people in the world are chinese anyway so what’s the point. Thanks mr. Bonaccorsi.
JB already has a litterbox to celebrate emancipation. It’s unseemly that he sees fit to derail what could have been an interesting thread into another hobbyhorse race. We understand you don’t like the south and your neighbors need to paint their fence and you hate spectator sports. Start a blog about it. That way people that care can read about how lame your life is and how mean southerners are.
In other words, John B, your whole schtick is your interpretation of morality? Frankly, I gave you more credit than that. Hence my inquiries.
No black Africans have ever been as lucky as those sold to North American masters. And without those masters they have degenerated to the savage conditions of their native continent.
Really John B, you’re in Philadelphia. Don’t you get out?
Oh –
Who is calling who dishonest? Who’s view is based on supposition and who’s is based on reality? John B, send your daughter for a walk through downtown Philadelphia tonight!
Whose. Gin.
There are “natural” slaves, and slaves of convention. As the Philosopher tells us:
…is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right? Or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature? There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule.
If this be so, then the question is rather one of practical reason. That is, we ask not whether slavery is, per se, morally wrong, but whether it holds any rational benefit for the master. It is a given that a benefit always accrues to the slave, a benefit that has been rightly ascertained in the posts above. To wit: the slave is given a master, and now the slave’s actions can be rightly directed toward fulfilling his (the slave’s) natural end.
The question of the benefit to the master is, however, not so easily shown. It turns on whether the slave can be readily domesticated to the point of being mostly useful in the context of his master’s house. This consideration, today (that is, in our post-industrial, technologically based world), would likely preclude many forms of traditional slavery. Especially if we are speaking of negroes. But it is still an open question, and some could argue otherwise, with sound arguments toward it.
Let us agree: everyone here accepts that the current state-serfdom (soft paternalism) of Negroes is broken.
JB thinks that the problem is multiracialism. Centuries of slavery and almost a century of Crow prove him wrong. His only recourse is to reject slavery and southern culture. That makes him a crude separatist that employs false morality to justify “white nationalism”. Why else is he so concerned about the purported ‘rights’ of those he desperately seeks to expel from his polity? It’s an act.
Negro crime is nothing that the ABC’s can’t fix.
Amputation
Brandings
Castration
I am against slavery, because is sets the stage for miscegenation. I am also against slavery, because slavery degrades the value of physical labor, and self-reliance.
That said – Southerners were right about everything.
John B. – I lived in Philadelphia for AGES. This is the city that taught me that Southerners were right about everything.
Hunter – thanks for posting the first Lee quote. I had heard that quote years ago,, could not recall the author, and have spent a bit of time in fruitless effort to discover the origin of the flawless observation. This Eternal Verity will henceforth remain engraved in my Soul..
In 1860, Adams County, MS (Natchez) was the wealthiest county in the United States:
http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1534/article_detail.asp
In 2010, Adams County, MS (Natchez) was #96 of the 100 poorest counties in the United States. It is a remarkable demonstration of the inherent superiority of “free labor” over “slave labor.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States
The blacks in Philadelphia and Detroit are merely enjoying their natural right to freedom and the privileges of American citizenship bestowed upon them by Yankees.
Slavery was a viable solution to the Negro Question.
The Left assumes that blacks live in squalor and poverty because of racism, colonialism, white supremacy, etc. In reality, these things are merely the effects of their innate biological character and lack of intelligence.
Slaveowners had the legal right to use force to make blacks behave in ways they wouldn’t ordinarily behave in a condition of freedom. Slavery artificially transformed blacks into a disciplined, industrious, highly productive workforce capable of generating enormous amounts of surplus wealth.
Around 90% of the wealth generated by American slaves was invested back into the black community. The average slave didn’t become a profitable investment for a planter until around the age of 27.
The abolition of slavery eliminated the White master and every destructive tendency of the innate black character naturally reasserted itself.
“The blacks in Philadelphia and Detroit are merely enjoying their natural right to freedom and the privileges of American citizenship bestowed upon them by Yankees.”
– Birmingham and Atlanta aren’t anything to brag about either. Pick your own cotton next time, “Dixian”.
It wasn’t our idea to unleash them, arm them, fellate them, or put them in charge of the government. That was a Yankee project.
It was your idea to bring them to the New World in the first place.
What if Emmett Till could have grown up to cure cancer? Or maybe his biracial child would be president?
Thanks to racism we will never know. Mr. Bonaccorsi understands what I’m trying to say. Peace and love. 313Chris and John Bonaccorsi, Philadelphia are the only people here that haven’t let hate blind them. I like it here. Nice to meet you white folks. The res are just racist.
My ancestors were slaves and they were promised 40 acres and a mule. When that didn’t happen my family tried to escape the south but the klan wouldn’t let them leave and burned a cross in their yard. We were prisoners in the south until the bus boycott. Stop the hate. Before it’s too late. If any of yu like peanut butter or other black inventions you’re hipocrites. Us black folks are complex for instance I’m conservative yet I voted Obama TWICE. Stop trying to categorize us.
Thanks for your important comments Upside Down. I’m a white, somewhat conservative Obama voter who enjoys giving the racists here a hard time. I’m hoping to marry an African, Mexican or Asian and have multiracial children so I can do my part to end the whole concept of white racialism. These racists here ignore the entire history of white violence in midieval Europe and in colonialism, while only mentioning some bad things about the African-American community without mentioning the important contributions made by African-Americans and immigrants. I hope you keep posting here.
It’s unseemly that he sees fit to derail what could have been an interesting thread into another hobbyhorse race.
No, I merely stopped another Southron circle jerk before it could get started.
John B, send your daughter for a walk through downtown Philadelphia tonight!
I don’t have to do that, Bill. All I have to do is take an afternoon drive to my ancestors’ neighborhoods, which are now negro (and Hispanic) ruins. What have I said that makes you think I am unaware of the disaster of free blacks among whites?
JB thinks that the problem is multiracialism. Centuries of slavery and almost a century of Crow prove him wrong. His only recourse is to reject slavery and southern culture. That makes him a crude separatist that employs false morality to justify “white nationalism”. Why else is he so concerned about the purported ‘rights’ of those he desperately seeks to expel from his polity? It’s an act.
What is it that centuries of slavery and almost a century of Jim Crow prove me wrong about, Tamer? I haven’t denied that those things (as well as apartheid, if you’d care to throw that in) can mitigate the harm done to whites by the presence of blacks among them. It is still not good for whites or blacks to be among each other, and blacks should not be subjected to those indignities. Crude separatist? You bet.
Slavery was a viable solution to the Negro Question.
If whites hadn’t had their heads up their asses, there wouldn’t have been a negro question.
Where did Lee get the idea that Virginia would be better off without them? What was the example of the “breadbasket of the Confederacy” — how it was farmed differently?
I live at the edge of a county that was VERY rich and prosperous, and the third most populous in this state when the Mississippi county (Adams) was so prosperous. Time passed as the easier coal veins were mined out (while new cotton soils wore out?) and now the same county has fewer people than lived there a century ago and very high poverty.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, nor does adding a third or fourth…the Enslavement being the first.
@Chris & John B –
“It was your idea to bring them to the New World in the first place.”
This seems to be the gist of your complaints, so go back and look it up in your history books – if they were published before 1920. Yeah, we bought ’em but you imported ’em and sold ’em to us! Only arrived in more recent generations? Then butt out!
Now that I know what useless scat you fellows are peddling, be gone with it so that we in the 21st century can get on with getting out of this God forsaken “union”.
Chris 313: Southerners didn’t bring over slaves, Chris. Visit Bristol, RI, admire the huge colonial houses and more modest ones–all slave traders and sea captains in the slave business, and all cargo transported in Yankee bottoms.
There’s a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in. Nice to meer another normal dude.
Some guys here are talking about some deep things that I never studied in college. Im here to learn and I respect the views of people here. The last book I read was Hunger Games but my family has a rich oral history unlike white families. It’s great that you voted for Barack, proud globalist. Im a middle-aged black man that likes to eat pizza and watch Bill Maher. I also play xbox. I think Michael Steele has a lot of good ideas. I’ve noticed I’m less angry and more parriotic than I was during the Bush years, probably just getting older. I don’t date white girls anymore but when I did they caed me king kong. I do have one girl and you can ask babymama i never miss a payment (mixed race caramel baby).
Upside Down, the interesting website linked to your screen name is “Antiracist.com” — concerned with “the meaning of whiteness,” “the discovery of white culture in its commonality and variety,” “early exposure to racism” as a cause, and various kinds of racism such as overt, covert, and unintentional, explicit and implicit, and institutional, and the creation of “communities where everyone is supported in being their complete and full selves.”
where it which beyu
Moreover, visit Prescott Farm in RI. The re-enactors there will tell you where the farm’s revenue came from–potatoes and onions to feed slaves in the South, because Southern land was too valuable to grow in anything but cotton and tobacco.
Typo at the end of that comment. Cannot edit mistakes on this site. Sorry.
For the record:
1) Wars are NEVER prosecuted for moral reasons. They are always SOLD to the idiots on morals grounds but they are ALWAYS advanced for monetary or political gain.
2) The age of mass media has required almost every single war to be begun by provocation by the aggressor and blamed on the defender who “fires the first shot”.
In other words, slavery was the WMD of its day. An excuse. An agitation. Something idiots believe.
Explanation: I suppose two way traffic was efficient, hauling cotton and tobacco north in exchange for potatoes and onions to the south. Potatoes and onions harvested in the fall in New England would have filled the gap after the southern ones that had been harvested months earlier were consumed or had begun to sprout or spoil — there being no refrigerated cold storage in the southern states in those days (the North had ice houses). Some kinds of tobacco were/are grown in the Connecticut River valley, and in southeastern Pennsylvania, which also produced cotton when it was scarce during the war.
“Slavery was a viable solution to the Negro Question.”
If it wasn’t for slavery, there would be no Negro Question.
John B.: Tell us that you would not prefer your children be forced to work but fed, housed, cared for and alive than starving to death. But first, have you seen the effects of starvation? Have you seen the forlorn looks of hopelessness and idleness?? You, like the rest of your idealistic, utopian Yankees are quick to utter the famous line of “give me liberty or give me death”, but you are lying to yourself. Faced with the gallows, you’ll choose life and slavery every time.
@ Upside Down: Multicultural liberalism is concerned with radical innovations such as “creating communities where EVERYONE is supported in being their complete and full selves” — whereas traditional conservatism is concerned with conserving, supporting and restoring genetically distinct, EXCLUSIVE, historically EXISTING ethnic communities. Two completely opposite poles.
Steve: then what to do with all the Haitains, Somalis and Nigerians your glorious union was brought upon us?
Oh yes! We’ve undoubtedly lost a brilliant surgeon, and diagnostician, when we lost dear sweet unassuming Emmet.
Thanks for the laughs!
And now, in honor of what we’ve lost in Emmett’s tragically unfulfilled promise, I bring you this:
@ Upside Down: On this blog, most of them call everyone born and bred north of the Mason Dixon Line a “YANKEE” — as in:
“You, like the rest of your idealistic, utopian Yankees…”
You are now a “Yankee,” as they say. You might also be a “Wordist,” if….