By Hunter Wallace
In The Washington Post, Bernie Sanders has an Op-Ed on his plan to make college tuition free:
“In 1877, Rutherford B. Hayes became the first president to make a strong case for universally available public education. “Universal suffrage should rest upon universal education,” he said in his inaugural address, adding that “liberal and permanent provision should be made for the support of free schools.” Hayes, a Republican, didn’t worry that some poor kid might benefit from access to “free stuff,” nor did he believe that the children of wealthy elites should be excluded from the universal nature of the program. For him, education was the basis for full economic and political participation, and full participation was the basis for all prosperity. An education should be available to all regardless of anyone’s station. …”
Forbes also has an article on how college tuition isn’t exactly free in Denmark:
“There is no doubt that a sustainable funding mechanism for college education is an important policy for any modern country, but if one pays upwards in 56% in income tax and 25% in sales tax (including a 105-180% tax on cars) to fund education and other social services, one would not call it “free.”
Among other things, Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world. The Danes are fond of balanced budgets, hard work, high middle class taxes and far more expensive consumer goods. They trust the government. Because of their relative lack of diversity, Danes are less divided by hyper-partisan political parties than Americans.
No, college tuition should not be free. We don’t need hundreds of thousands or millions enrolled in Black Studies or Women’s Studies or some other rather worthless course of study on the taxpayer’s dime. If tuition were free then there should be rigorous testing for admission to specific majors and no affirmative action. As it is now many, many students do not graduate within 5 years. Let’s not make “Animal House” a free ride.
I think college tuition should be free. However, I also believe that the time to get degrees could be at least halved if students were not forced to take classes that have nothing to do with their degrees.
I also believe that the public high schools would be more beneficial if they stepped away from edicts like making every student “college-ready,” especially if many of them have no interest in going to college but are more mechanically inclined, for example. They could bring back shop and cosmetology and office training courses.
I would seriously consider voting for Bernie Sanders, because I agree with many of his positions. I somewhat understand that certain people are wary and suspicious of Sanders, because he’s a Jew and might possible work against White interests.
However, he is widely liked and respected by his nearly all-White constituency in NH. He seems to have a fond affinity for them as well. I don’t get that sense of an underlying creeping, hostile animus and contempt for the White middle and working class Americans from Sanders that I do unfortunately even from many White candidates running for either party.
Despite the fact that he was forced to capitulate and play along with the Black Lives Matter fanatics (and I think that Soros was behind that to help Clinton by disrupting his campaign), I notice that many of his plans are tailored to help the average White American. Sanders doesn’t seem to smoulder with hatred for us and resent even dog-whistle pander to us the way that Jeb Bush and his cronies and Hilary Clinton and her cronies do.
William H McCarty // October 23, 2015 at 8:01 pm //
“No, college tuition should not be free. We don’t need hundreds of thousands or millions enrolled in Black Studies or Women’s Studies or some other rather worthless course of study on the taxpayer’s dime.”
Which is what Bernie is counting on.
I would like to see Universities that engage in politics shut down. The IRS is more than capable of doing this, by going after their income from tax deducible donations. If they want to practice Cultural Marxism, they can publish their reading lists for free online. Professors should not be allowed to get away with turning their politics into a joke of a degree and make a good living from it.
Oh, how generous. These socialists are always so generous with other peoples’ money aren’t they? I bet once he even gave a shiny new penny to a kid, and then subtracted a dollar on his 1040 for charitable donations.
I suppose college sounds better than Marxist Re-education Camp. I suppose with all the Anti-White hate, those fake academies of Bullshit Studies will need to find someone to pay their fat salaries when White parents won’t shell out $100,000 to subject their children to abuse and threats?
Why don’t put it on the Race Card? It still has a balance right? Is it $777 Trillion? Only if you’re a nigger. I think its not even two cents for me!
Richard Bird will you be attending the Trump rally at the Landing tomorrow? You’ve said before that you live in Jax…
Dr. Doom
‘I suppose college sounds better than Marxist Re-education Camp.’
You won’t believe the latest tactic proposed by a negro LGBT advocate.
UWM says ‘politically correct’ is no longer politically correct
Oct 21, 2015 at 4:02 PM EDT
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6907
The phrase “politically correct” is now a micro aggression according to the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
The university’s “Just Words” campaign is the work of UWM’s “Inclusive Excellence Center” and aims to “raise awareness of microaggressions and their impact”—microaggressions like “politically correct” or “PC.”
Merriam-Webster defines “politically correct” as “conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated.” The university, however, claims that calling something “politically correct” “has become a way to deflect, [and say] that people are being too ‘sensitive’ and police language.” “Politically correct,” moreover, is just one of a whole host of words and phrases the university has denounced as microaggressions.
The university also claims the word “lame” is a microaggression that somehow both “ridicules and ignores the lives of amputees” and therefore shouldn’t be used.
UWM also claims that using the phrase “third world” to describe third world countries is a microaggression because it “reinforces heirarchical [sic] attitudes towards nations around the world, [and] establishes Westernized (industrialized) countries and cultures as the ‘standard’ upon which to measure national well-being or economic status.”
Interestingly enough, while the university’s Inclusive Excellence Center has labeled several common-use adjectives harmful, the man running the campaign, Warren Scherer, the director of the university’s Inclusive Excellence Center, has taken to Twitter to express his displeasure with Republican presidential candidates in a non-inclusive manner.
Nevertheless, Scherer’s department claims that the word “thug” is a microaggression because it “assumes that violence is the sole motivating factor in an action. Ignores issues of poverty, education and other institutional barriers. Used as synonym for Nigga/er.”
The “Just Words Campaign” also denounces the phrase “illegal alien” because it “fails to recognize the humanity of immigrants.” Words such as “crazy,” “trash,” and “welfare queen” are also on UWM’s list of microaggressions.
Absolutely not.
If there is an economic gain to the student, they should bear the cost as loans. If there is no economic gain, then why are we promoting college?
When you pay for something you value it more.
It is good if you are a Jewish college professor who does not like to work very hard, likes long summer vacations and likes very high pay, subsidized by the government.
Giving money to cultural Marxist institutions of higher indoctrination is the only idea worse than giving money to Hollywood.
College can only be “free” if we doff the notion that everyone has to go to college.
We, as a society, and species, are still on the upward slop of re-learning everything that was already learned, by jettisoned in favor of swilling the Frankfurt Shul poison.
No. We must stop giving things – ANYTHING – to those who have not earned their benefits and privileges. There are many ways to earn something. How has Gibs MeDay worked out for the Academic sphere, as well as society as a whole.
Cly – no, Put down the Jew Poison Pill.
The argument for free tuition is that it is effectively a nation investing in its own future human capital so to the extent that is true then yes.
However that would mean first trashing the accreditation scam that higher education has become.
– far fewer places, mostly in STEM subjects
– none in the social sciences
– 90% of higher paid jobs should go back to people starting at the bottom and working their way up
Let’s rephrase the question: in a White ethnostate without SJWs and cultural Marxists infesting the universities and indoctrinating kids in political correctness, should college education be free?
What about public schools? What should the education system look like in a free South or the White ethnostate?
I’ve been taking on a number of new topics lately: education, trade, taxes, jobs, spending, etc.
I don’t like the idea of Government teaching children at all. You all see how by taking over education these Marxist jews have turned Christian children into drugged up socialist whores and atheists. Why do you need low grade midwits who are notorious for taking Education Majors because the other curricula are beyond their abilities to teach your kids? Sure you have a job, but if Mother is at home she can teach the kids how to read and write. You don’t need experts to teach penmanship and basic mathematics. If you provided materials for home schooling I imagine these kids will be inculcated in the Religion and Beliefs of the parents and kept far away from the perverts who would twist their minds and sodomise them after class. Children today are sent early in the morning to places that resemble Prisons with bare cinder block walls and forced to stay until they are released by Government Authorities. Parents are forced to submit to allowing their children to follow and obey the teachings of complete strangers who show them homosexual materials and tell them God is a myth. Public Education is purely Satanic. It breaks the will of gullible children by forcing them to salute Godless mindless perverts and supposed to bow to the lowest behaviors and standards these feral administrators can devise.
“Let’s rephrase the question: in a White ethnostate without SJWs and cultural Marxists infesting the universities and indoctrinating kids in political correctness, should college education be free?”
You contradict yourself, Mr. W. In a White ethnostate, nothing will be “free,” because true Whites will not parasitize each other.
The problem is that it is not actually free. First someone, namely the taxpayers, has to foot the bill. Second, there are many jobs out there that do not require a degree, such as the skilled trades. Spending time in college for these people actually burns resources and time that are not necessary. Third, despite many people’s opinion, there are a large number of people who just aren’t cut out for college. Why should we, the taxpayers, pay for a bunch of degrees in basket weaving and coffee serving studies because that’s all the job that a lot of these degrees will get a person.
So, what you are saying is that your White ethnostate would be Liberland?
There is a place in any stable Aryan Society for Academies of Higher Learning. They can teach the Philosophy of the Ancient Greeks, the Literature of the Aryan Cultural Heritage, the Sciences of Physics and Biology, and of course Medicine. Any State run by Aryans would control their currency and eliminate the Central Bankers. It would loan at cost of inflation which would be low due to the removal of parasitic speculators and usurers that debased our currency. They who wish to pursue Higher Education could get Zero Interest Loans repayable at any time with reductions based on hardship or emergencies. Skilled Trades could again return to either Trade Schools or even Apprenticeships like they were done in the past. Homeschooling would be the norm for underage youth, until they were old enough to learn a trade or an occupation. Only those with serious physical handicaps would be allowed to receive non-work pensions and allowances. Any drunks or addicts would be imprisoned either in rehab jails or workhouses, until they could demonstrate sobriety.
Universal participation is the problem. Too many “participants” lack discernment and self-responsibility. “Free” college education will do the same thing that “free” housing, food, and medical care have done: create dependence and debase the currency.
“So, what you are saying is that your White ethnostate would be Liberland?”
In Whiteland, I’m saying, there will be private property. There will be no animal like Hillary Clinton, no ape who will think himself or herself virtuous or civic-minded if he or she stands, at a town-council meeting, and says, “I think we need a community swimming pool.” That will be recognized as insane, antisocial. No white will cause consternation by suggesting that expenditure by each member of the community be compelled by vote. No white will be forced to spend, i.e., to engage in exchange or donation. Yes, taxation for governance–meaning the military, the courts, and the police–will be permitted, as will taxation, possibly, for infrastructure that can’t be arranged as private property. That’s it, there will be no government “services.” The phrase “government services” will sound absurd, which it is.
PS Decades ago, I had a drudge job at the Internal Revenue Service Center, here in Philadelphia. That facility, now closed, was one of the then-eight places, nationwide, to which tax returns were mailed. At one point, one of the buildings in which I worked was renovated, for the creation of a large area of cubicles where, as I understood things, taxpayers could dispute charges of unpaid taxes or whatever. I’d guess you will be tickled, as I was, by that area’s name: “Customer Service Center.”
In other words, Liberland, the libertarian utopia.
“In other words, Liberland, the libertarian utopia.”
If you want to say it that way, fine, but my understanding is that those who call themselves libertarians are also concerned with things like drug laws, about which I’ve said nothing. Whether what I’ve discussed is utopia, I can’t say; it is, however, a place where white men act like men.
Would there be public schools in Liberland? National Parks? Minimum wage laws? Vaccinations?
Hunter Wallace // October 23, 2015 at 10:39 pm //
“Let’s rephrase the question: in a White ethnostate without SJWs and cultural Marxists infesting the universities and indoctrinating kids in political correctness, should college education be free?”
Given enough time institutions would create SJWs as people that swing that way gravitate to those kinds of professions.
“What about public schools? What should the education system look like in a free South or the White ethnostate?”
I suspect we are looking at it the wrong way. I will give some options.
In a white ethnostate if businesses wanted skilled employees, they could not just get them from other countries. The people inside that country would have to be developed. At the same time you could not allow people to go to college and study any old nonsense. So there would have to be mutual obligation between the people and the businesses that employ them.
So how about degrees must be economically useful and you must work in that field for x number of years to pay them off. Sort of like national service.
Another way could be starting people at the bottom of companies with no education or experience and you study relevant subjects as you go. The costs could be born by both the employee and the company. At least that way, companies would have to give unskilled people a start and develop them.
Another way is to make education free. I mean no one pays for it not even the tax payer because it must be free. The great intellectuals could publish reading lists on the internet. This would not work in useful areas like science or engineering, that require actual hardware. Perhaps in that situation companies could pool their resources and fund the education they financially benefit from. And of course with free education, there would be no way for SJWs to make a useless living inventing social troubles out of thin air.
The idea is to get rid of the institutions known as Universities, for they are proven SJW breeding grounds.
We have had universities since the Middle Ages. This seems like a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
1 — Public schools? No–and in fact, there will be no such abuse of the word “public.” So-called public schools are government-run schools.
2 — National Parks? I should think so. The cordoning-off of areas to be kept in a more-or-less natural state seems to me to be governance. In effect, it’s an aspect of property law; it sets a place where there is to be no private property. Whatever governmental activity is necessary to maintain that–to control visiting hours, use of campsites etc.–is all part of that governance, as far as I can see.
3 — Minimum wage laws? No. Minimum wage laws are an example of–what shall I call it?–effective compulsion. In other words, they’re not outright compulsion, like taxation; they don’t force you to hire anyone. They simply say that, if you want to hire someone, you must pay no less than X. If you don’t want to engage in an exchange at that rate, well, then, your only choice is not to engage in the exchange at all. You’re not forced, to say it again. You’re effectively forced. In Whiteland, there will be no effective compulsion.
4 — Vaccination? I imagine that’s one of several things that could be debated. Prevention of contagion is certainly an aspect of governance. Compelled vaccination of minors for non-contagious diseases, such as polio (which, as far as I know, is not contagious)? I could see an argument that a child should not be abandoned to a foolish parent’s indifference to something of that importance, though I suppose there are persons who also think such vaccinations can be harmful. (I haven’t studied this question.) It’s something about which there could be reasonable disagreement, I’d say. Possibly, there are essays in which persons who’ve thought about these things have addressed this very question.
1.) If there were no public schools in Whiteland, is it reasonable to assume that illiteracy and innumeracy would skyrocket? Take the most backward county in the Ozarks in Arkansas with the highest illiteracy rate. Is that the model we should be shooting for as a society?
2,) I would say it is a good thing that the Redwoods in California were not sawed down and turned into grape stakes.
3.) Is it reasonable to assume that in Whiteland that the White poor and working class would be taking a major hit? There would be no minimum wage laws. No free public schools for their children. I’m guessing no Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. It sounds like the White majority would be worse off in Whiteland.
4.) Is there a public interest in preventing the spread of infectious diseases (note: diseases like the flu don’t care about individual rights) like polio and measles? Should we bring back smallpox? Are poor children who get vaccinated parasites?
Institutions retard progress and suppress freedom of thought. See how the peer review process, was used to suppress dissenters in Climate Gate. There are many examples of wars that go on in science, where established groups in an institution suppress new ideas, because they are a direct threat to their way of making a living. And we both know its not just science where these suppression occur.
If money was taken out of the equation, there would be less motivation to suppress new ideas. They would have to look at each idea based on its merits.
And why does someone who studies an economically useless subject, need letters after their name, special status in society and get to make a good living at the expense of others? Why can’t they just study it for their own pleasure? Why should anyone be forced to pay for someone else to enjoy themselves? There is a big problem with this idea IMO.
@HW
“Let’s rephrase the question: in a White ethnostate without SJWs and cultural Marxists infesting the universities and indoctrinating kids in political correctness, should college education be free?”
I guess the first principle is each can have their own answer i.e. state’s rights or the equivalent so the correct answer is the one that suits the people in each state / nation.
Personally I’d be okay with it under the right conditions but my guess is the more homogenous an ethno state is (i.e. the more each individual within it is related to everyone else) the more comfortable they will be with collective solutions and vice versa if they’re not.
So, it depends.
(My general view is if you can get rid of the banks and make sure everyone in your state is roughly say a 6th cousin of everyone else then it will probably work out.)
“then it will probably work out”
->
“then whatever you do will probably work out”
But the simplest way to deal with universities is to use the IRS to enforce tax law. You’d be surprised how quickly they jettison their SJW ideals, when financial Armageddon approaches.
I’ll take your points in an order other than the one in which you presented them, Mr. W.
“2.) I would say it is a good thing that the Redwoods in California were not sawed down and turned into grape stakes.”
So would I. My answer to your question about National Parks was that, yes, National Parks seem to me an aspect of governance. In other words, we have no disagreement here.
“4.) Is there a public interest in preventing the spread of infectious diseases like polio and measles? Should we bring back smallpox? Are poor children who get vaccinated parasites?”
We don’t necessarily have any disagreement here. I said prevention of contagion is an aspect of governance. I also said compelled vaccination of minors for non-contagious diseases is something about which there could be reasonable disagreement.
“3.) Is it reasonable to assume that in Whiteland that the White poor and working class would be taking a major hit? There would be no minimum wage laws. No free public schools for their children. I’m guessing no Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. It sounds like the White majority would be worse off in Whiteland.”
In Whiteland, yes, there will be no minimum wage; no “free,” “public” schools; no Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. Is it reasonable to assume that the White poor and working class would be taking a major hit? It’s reasonable to assume a White will be bred with a sense of what he or she is to avoid if he or she wants to know something other than abjection.
“1.) If there were no public schools in Whiteland, is it reasonable to assume that illiteracy and innumeracy would skyrocket? Take the most backward county in the Ozarks in Arkansas with the highest illiteracy rate. Is that the model we should be shooting for as a society?”
See my answer to 3, above.
It already sounds like there will be a lot more poverty, ignorance and disease in Whiteland.
“It already sounds like there will be a lot more poverty, ignorance and disease in Whiteland.”
To me, it sounds just the opposite. Because there are some things I must attend to, I can participate no further in this particular exchange, Mr. W.; but as always, I enjoy what goes on here, at Occidental Dissent.
Hunter Wallace // October 24, 2015 at 2:27 am //
“It already sounds like there will be a lot more poverty, ignorance and disease in Whiteland.”
It sounds like RonPaulLand.
Hypothetically a white nation ought to offer free college to the top test scorers from high school. And only that top twenty go to college.
Everyone else learns a trade.
Sounds good to me.
Idiots here talking about “well students should cough up the $100,000 or so they need for college cause they’ll value it more”. You can’t just pay for college anymore, people! Only the super rich can and the rest must acquire crippling debt in order to fund their studies. So here’s an argument I know y’all will like: if college were free there would be no need for jew bankers milking American student for all they’re worth!
In a free South… Personally I would prefer churches take on education. I would also prefer all education be attended to on the local level. Communities pooling there money through voluntarism and tithing. Atheists and others sharing a community center or something if we can’t force them to move north. A central overpowering government controlling education is not the way to go…we have seen this.
I’d have no problem with college being free for people who were actually fit to go to college. In this political climate, though there’s no way that unsuitable applicants could be kept out of the universities.
There can be no homogeneous, Western, white nation as long as we imbibe the stupid, leftist doctrine of the Enlightenment. When our nations become built upon free-dumb, demo-crazy, and equality, they become lost too us as a people. Let’s face it, the natural, logical progression of Enlightenment thought is Communism.
Not just no but “Hell no!” College should not be free. We have too many rather than too few people in college.
Why is this proposal popular with liberals/cultural Marxists? 1. Colleges are indoctrination and recruiting centers for the Democrat Party.
2. Tons of money funneled into education in this guise will be paid to teachers union members, whose unions will launder billions back into the Democrat Party.
3. Keeping people in college until they’re 30 years old stunts their growth but also keeps them out of the job market for additional years and to some extent takes pressure off the unemployment rate. College students are not competing for non-existent jobs in the job market.
4. Too much college enrollment and absence from the job market stunts the white birth rate. We need an economy like in the past where a high school degree could get a blue collar graduate a job that would support a wife and children. Optimally, women have children in the ages 18-25 and if they’re in college until they’re 30 it will undermine marriage and undermine child bearing. When the USA founded its space program and went to the moon, most people in the USA were NOT college graduates.
Agree with Don. The statistical chance of women with degrees having a child drops to zero. And the West never better, than when people went to night school while working full time. University is extended babysitting and Marxist indoctrination.
The only way college is free is to have the staff volunteer their time.
Of course, Sanders is using LiberalSpeak in substituting free for fully subsidized at White taxpayers expense.
I would offer a counter proposal.
The taxpayers will fully subsidise STEM majors for qualified students to be paid for by eliminating the general education requirements and ending taxpayer subsidization of crap such as political “science”, African studies, women’s studies, etc.
The more we eliminate junk education the more we can fully subsidise other practical and economically valuable majors such as accounting.
On the issue of LiberalSpeak and education, it’s annoying that lefties always refer to any college graduate as well educated.
Any dunkoff with a 90 I.Q. and a degree in art history from alcorn state is “well educated”, but a young person with a 110 I.Q. who wastes no time or money to become a machinist, auto technician, electrician, etc. is referred to as one of the less educated despite their education being infinitely more valuable to the taxpayers.
Bernie Sanders proposal is nothing more than a call for a money grab for Left.
Make an amendment to that. Free college for the top 20% of men. Women pay their own way on that score.
In the past, children could help out on the family farm, but the old agricultural economy is never coming back. New technology has made agriculture too capital intensive to employ large numbers of workers. Even if all the lost manufacturing jobs were brought back from overseas, manufacturing is headed there eventually due to new technology and automation.
White families also practice family planning because children are so much more expensive than in the past. It costs so much more to maintain the good job so you can afford the nice house with the neighborhood school. As far as children go, nothing costs more now than putting them through college. It seems to get more expensive every year. You can’t pay for even public school tuition with a summer job now.
If you want a high White birthrate, then your argument is with feminism, birth control and abortion.
If evangelicals took over education in the South, I am afraid they would teach our children to worship Jews. Of course the public schools teach them to worship Jews and blacks right now. It is an awful situation.
Ending the government monopoly on taxpayer subsidized K – 12 education would encourage the millions of White families who live in beautiful neighborhoods, but with the public schools overrun with the punk-and-slut spawn, to have more children since they would be able to afford a quality alternative education and still payoff their mortgage and other expenses.
Millions of women with enough space and energy could be paid to school their neighbor’s children as well as their own. Over time, vouchers would create a boom of mini-schools which would offer customized education which could include Racial Realism.
Education vouchers would save thousands of White America’s best neighborhoods since the property values would stay much higher despite the endless nearby apartment complexes filled with Sub-Saharan Africans and mestizos.
I don’t understand why Whites aren’t pushing harder to get our tax money back in the form of education vouchers so that we can afford to save more our best neighborhoods and have more children.
This is really far too complex a topic with too many variables for me to make any kind of detailed comment.
All I will say is that if I were in charge of shaping policy in a Racialist and Nationalist nation, the concept of $$$$$$$ being a hindrance to education would be as offensive as would the notion of having to pay money to have your parents love and protect you. The State’s purpose is to define and protect borders of the nation, both physical borders and ideological borders. Part of that protection comes in the form of ensuring a nation’s citizens are healthy, productive and able to achieve levels of success that are proportional to their natural talents and abilities and ambitions, as well as creating a safety net for those whose talents and abilities haven’t yet been recognized or found their proper place in society. I don’t believe in Statism, but I don’t believe in a free-for-all when it comes to liberty, choice and individualism either.
Now, if we are talking about “free” education in the Petrie dish of mixed up identities, professional freeloaders, and unchecked and forced diversity we call America, the concept is insane and destined for failure. The public education system we have now is a joke and might as well be called Diversity Reeducation or Multiculturalism Training. We already have programs for “free” food, and look how badly those programs are abused and inefficiently run. You can game the system rather easily. If you’re black or brown, the government will even help you game them. If this pathetic government can screw up something as basic as food, then you can be certain that they will royally screw up when it comes to something as complex and multifaceted as higher education.