The Flu vs. Coronavirus II

There are several websites in our sphere of the internet which are spreading fake news and conspiracy theories about the coronavirus in order to pander to conservatives and libertarians. I won’t bother to name them. I will just point out how easy it is to refute them.

The coronavirus IS NOT “literally just the flu.” The CDC has a helpful tool which tracks annual and weekly deaths from influenza and pneumonia. We can look directly at the data and see how many people die on a weekly basis in New York State from the flu and pnuemonia, how many died in total in a week and what percentage of deaths are from the flu and pneumonia.

In the worst flu season in recent years, 63 people died in a week in New York State from influenza and 243 died from pneumonia, which at the very peak was about 9 a day from influenza and 34 a day from pneumonia. This was the week that ended on January 20, 2018 in the middle of a brutal winter. The flu and pnuemonia accounted for 9.8% of all deaths that week.

The graph above shows weekly deaths in New York State from influenza and pneumonia. The absolute worst it gets is slightly below 300 deaths in a week. Since last night, New York State has reported 253 new deaths. The day isn’t even over yet. There will be another update this evening.

The medical system can easily handle flu and pneumonia deaths which are seasonal and peak and follow a familiar predicable curve. Homicides are also seasonal and follow a familiar predicable curve. This is not anything like the flu. 253 people just don’t die in 12 hours in New York State from influenza.

Note: BTW, the flu and regular cases of pneumonia that derive from it don’t take out hospital workers and the police either or crash the global economy or cause global chaos.

About Hunter Wallace 12366 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent


  1. A guy with the handle “joe” is allowed to walk up to a temporary morgue site and film bodies at Maimonides being loaded into trailers, and you accept this? The gurneys are all over the place, creating the impression of a chaotic scene with the dead everywhere, and you believe this? But “joe” already knows the deaths are from COVID-19, and you accept that? If a bagged body takes up at most 8 cubic feet and the loading protocol is opening the back doors for every 10 or so bodies, the doors would be opened at least 40 times, creating exposure to unthinkable odors of decomposition and contagion, and yet people standing aroaund are wearing street clothes?

    In Louisville, Kentucky an amateur sleuth videotaped his walk-in visits to three “overwhelmed” hospitals on two consecutive days to find nurses and clerks sitting around doing nothing with not one patient in sight nor one person in any waiting room. How do you account for that?

    How about that young female doctor claiming to be an ER doc at Elmhurst Hospital who, it turns out, doesn’t work there, although her specialty is medical emergency simulations?

    Have you been threatened?

  2. Every country and major corporation just decided spontaneously to lose trillions of dollars because they’re stupid and don’t know as much about disease as renowned medical professionals RamzPaul, Andrew Anglin, and Charlie Kirk.

      • That greedy idiot Rush Limbaugh raged against those who opposed George Bush II’s Iraq War in 2003. They were traitors, unpatriotic, scum, lunatics etc. Many of those who opposed GWB II’s war did so from bad motives such as the MSM’s hatred of GWB II. Repulsive Democrats like Nancy Pelosi wanted national failure to discredit Republicans. Much principled opposition from people like Ron Paul was drowned out by the Rush Limbaughs of the world lumping them in with horrible Democrats and MSM to try to shut them up.

        It turned out that war mongers like Rush were also draft dodgers during Vietnam or got soft spots at home like GWB II. The overwhelming majority of “conservatives” supporting GWB II’s war in Iraq turned out to be hypocritical draft dodgers during Vietnam. Those opposed to the war, whatever their motives turned out to be correct. The war was predicated upon lies about WMD and fought for the interests of “our greatest ally”, not the U.S.

        One lesson is that ideology clouds thinking and arriving at the truth. GWB II’s war against Iraq in 2003 was a disaster the country is still paying for. The Democrats were correct along with the lunatic Left and principled opponents like Ron Paul. Rush Limbaugh was wrong and a hypocrite like most of the war mongers. Seeking the truth by sifting through facts, especially when those facts contradict a previously held opinion is the only way forward. Ideology driving conclusions in contradiction to facts is just wishful thinking and destructive.

        Rush did it again before the 2008 financial meltdown. He had been singing the praises of GWB II’s economy (just like DJT now) and railing against those who pointed out the time bomb of debt waiting to go off. “Green shoots” was the phrase he used to describe any statistic, no matter how provisional, ambiguous or just misleading. Experts like Alan Greenspan, whose policies contributed mightily to the underlying debt problem, were quoted liberally because they confirmed Rush’s ideological tendencies. When the financial system crashed in 2008 Rush and his acolytes looked like the greedy idiots they really are. Again.

        Rush is at it again, he never learns. The Wuhan/China flu is not “just the flu”, it’s not a conspiracy to ruin DJT and yelling in to a microphone about it won’t make it go away. Facts, they are indeed “stubborn things . . . ” as John Quincy Adams noted and not subject to our wishes and inclinations.

        • Limbaugh is a bad man – a coward, liar and hypocrite. If it it was up to me I would have imposed the same penalty on him that William Joyce, aka, Lord Haw Haw, was given. I’m sorry about his cancer but it doesn’t excuse the fact that he promoted war crimes against Iraq and Afghanistan on behalf of his Zionist jew masters.

        • I haven’t listened to Limbaugh since Early March, fortunately I still work so don’t have the time during the day but our station in Illinois is running some other hack called “Chris Plante” whose whole schtick seems to be “the democrats are the real racists” crap. The add for his show this morning sounded like he spews the same “it’s all a liberal media hoax” line. Is Limbaugh still spewing this? Wait till his cancerous lung gets SARS-CoV-2 sure he’ll have a quick recovery. The left will play quotes of him laughing this thing off as a liberal hoax for his obituary. People too young to remember Polio don’t seem to believe something like this is even possible. The wolf has been too effectively kept from the door for so long people don’t believe it’s real anymore. My 82 year old Mom vividly remembers the Polio scares in the 40 when all the kiddie playgrounds and attractions were shut down. She very much believes something like this can happen.

        • Anyone who knew anything about the people who were really pushing for that war knew it was all lies, only serving the interests of the neo-cons and their precious Israel. We knew it would unleash bad and unpredictable consequences, which it did. We knew it would be a waste of blood and treasure, which it was and still is. But most people just went along with blowhard Rush and the rest of the Tribe’s MSM. I wonder who the puppet will be to replace Rush.

    • The problem is the government/press has lied so often and for so long its hard for people to believe anything they say anymore. The question becomes, “ Would the government lie about or exaggerate this whole situation if they thought it would benefit them in some way?” If the answer is ‘Yes’ or even just ‘Maybe’ then there is a big problem.

      Now, let’s say it doesn’t turn out to be anywhere near as bad as they predict ( or conversely even worse) Do you think they would cook the books so they don’t look like incompetent boobs? Again, if the answer is ‘Yes’ or ‘Maybe’ then there is a big problem.

      So much of this translates into the credibility of the Government, or lack there of. You are literally trusting them with your life. Are they worthy of that trust? It’s literally the Boy who cried Wolf. Is it a Wolf this time or not?

      • Here’s a comment/article I just read. FWIW.

        “The daily case number totals can be extracted by mousing over each plotted point in the graph in the lower right hand corner of the screen.

        The curve at first looks daunting, it seems to be shooting straight up. But being at least in part a mathematician, I wondered about the velocity of this upward move in cases.

        If the velocity was going up, the epidemic would be accelerating, the epidemic would be worsening. If going down, it would be getting better (slowing).

        So I plotted the data and took the first derivative with respect to time. What it shows is that the velocity of the epidemic in the US is definitely slowing, and quickly.

        While the number of confirmed cases continues to rise, it is rising more slowly. If there were a confounding effect from increased surveillance (more testing revealing yet more cases), the apparent velocity should be going up.

        Instead, it is going down. So I believe the effect to be real, and thus I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the epidemic. While this data says nothing about the potential for re-emergence in the fall or following spring, it does suggest that we have in fact, flattened the curve.”

    • It’s about control. They print the paper money backed by nothing, what difference does it make losing some 0’s on a screen to them? The reality is for you, you cannot buy anything.

    • None of those three have any credibility except among low information fools.

      Nothing needs to be said about the degenerate Anglin, that hasn’t already been covered here. Charlie Kirk? Well he’s obvious. RamZCop is more under the radar. I used to like him until he started repeating, “I support nationalism for Jews, but not nationalism for Whites”. He blocked me for calling him out on that jewy double standard way back in 2015 or 2016, and I see he’s still repeating it.

      Corona Virus and wasting so many years trying to talk sense into foolish people, has made me think a new form of nationalism is needed. Something like a White Nat Prepper. The idea is to do what Noah did, where he tried to warn people who wouldn’t listen for a while, but eventually he had to build his boat or he would have drowned with them.

  3. In Europe it’s very clear, it’s older people dead most of whom would be dead in months anyway from their other diseases, and younger covid people in the hospital are mostly obese and with other health problems

    USA ‘muricans are often obese and unhealthy so it is bound to be bad there in USA burger land

    But the stats game with CDC is obvious. With the 250-600,000 global flu-tied deaths annually, they are actually not logged as such individually due to other conditions amongst the deceased.

    With corona-chan it’s the reverse. Every geezer dying from diabetes or cancer at age 80 is logged as a coronavirus death even if it’s not the cause so long as they arguably have the virus. It’s friggin’ mandatory to report Covid-19 unlike the flu.

    There’s even a tonne of physician experts now globally calling out this fraud, ‘Swiss doctor on Covid-19’ and so many more

    Too often even thoughtful dissidents like Hunter – opposing MSM lies in other areas – fall for some particular paste up of gov-media propaganda. We see this over and over, as dissidents in some areas, believe in rubbish such as
    – USA moon landings 1969-72 HA
    – CIA Mossad fakes like ‘Julian Assange’ and ‘Edward Snowden’, frauds both pumped by the same, oiliest CIA newspapers
    – 9-11 was ‘Muslims’ even tho over 3000 architects & engineers say bullshite, and the NY Times printed photos of ‘Israeli art students’ with boxes of bomb detonators in the towers
    – ‘Nuclear weapons’ when the proof is all there that Hiroshima / Nagasaki were chemical firebombings like Tokyo

    Oldest baby boomers have now reached age 74, dying time has arrived for that generation

    And yes old and fat Americans will continue to die yes whilst having ‘corona’ like 100 million others who mostly had a coof or two

    • A lot of what you say is true. However, in terms of compiling death statistics, it is not the opposite with coronachan vs the flu. What you say they are doing with coronachan, is EXACTLY what the CDC does with the flu, year after year, to come up with their bullshit numbers to peddle their flu vaccines.

      Also, (((Henry Makow))) is a kike and disinformation artist of the highest magnitude. Why you’d criticize other thoughtful dissidents for falling for silly psyops like Assange, while citing Henry Makow, is a real head-scratcher.

      • Since I started getting the flu vaccine in the 90s I no longer get the flu. Yet at work you wouldn’t believe the knuckleheads (mostly black) who refuse the free vaccine with conspiracy theories about how it’s a government plot, bad for you, blah, blah, blah. Yes, this conspiratorial thinking is how blacks think, good company right?

        • I’ve never had a flu shot and I haven’t had it for a very long time. Of course, this social distancing thing is pretty much normal practice for me.
          …and then there are people killing themselves because they can’t handle it.

    • “We see this over and over, as dissidents in some areas, believe in rubbish such as
      – USA moon landings 1969-72 HA
      – CIA Mossad fakes like ‘Julian Assange’ and ‘Edward Snowden’, frauds both pumped by the same, oiliest CIA newspapers
      – 9-11 was ‘Muslims’ even tho over 3000 architects & engineers say bullshite, and the NY Times printed photos of ‘Israeli art students’ with boxes of bomb detonators in the towers
      – ‘Nuclear weapons’ when the proof is all there that Hiroshima / Nagasaki were chemical firebombings like Tokyo”

      I really don’t know what to say, are you for real? But for one the most difficult part of going to the moon was the heavy lift F1 1st stage of the Saturn 5 capable of getting that much mass up there. That was defiantly real witnessed by hundreds of thousands at the launch. But don’t believe your lying eyes, a world of unimaginable conspiracies which only you and a select few are smart enough to be “in on” is SO much more exciting.

      • We’ll run some tests to determine if Brabantian might benefit from a good, swift boot in the ass.

      • Nightowl, Get up to speed! Have you EVEN looked at Stanley Kubrick, ‘What ever happened to the Moon Landing,’ Operation Fishbowl, NASA’s ‘need to know’ stratification of personnel, that all of the launches INEVITABLY arc BACK TOWARD EARTH via the plumes, that all of the major ‘Moon landing’ astroNUTS were 33rd Degree MASONS, that there were GAG orders on Armstrong et al, and the only one who dared tell the truth, was microwaved in a failed launch? Let alone the van Allen belts, and NASA even now, saying ‘When we figure out a way to get through the van Allen Belts, a source of ‘high radiation’ and never correlate the fact that supposedly we ALREADY DID THAT, back in 1969?!?!? Or that you have never (nor have I) been up HIGH ENOUGH, to see ANY curvature of the supposed ‘globe’- because it doesn’t exist!

        God, how dumb some sheeople are. I grant you, the cognitive dissonance is such that most of y’all are like an incredulous 9-year old, when he realizes the Easter Bunny is FAKE, and EVERYONE is in on the scam…. But, hey. Sometimes, you need people who see things more clearly than you…

        Here. You can’t deny something you’ve never even fairly investigated….for starters. Go through ALL of the Pages, and then we’ll TAWK.

  4. It’s become a pure ego trip for him. His entire sense of his own self-importance seems to be tied in to minimizing the corona threat. It has nothing to do with his supposed concerns about the “economy.” He invested heavily in ridiculing the virus from the very first, and every time his predictions have been proven hilariously wrong (“People will forget about it in two weeks and go on to the next distraction”), he’s become more shrill in insisting on his own wisdom.

    Now everyone who has taken the crisis seriously is apparently merely a “so-called” member of the Right, according to him. Evidently that includes Orban, Tucker Carlson — pretty much everyone who doesn’t say that COVID is overblown. It’s become his litmus test, as much as being pro-Israel is a litmus test for neocons.

    It’s weird. He’s had a lot of good takes over the years, but he’s chosen this hill to die on.

    And it doesn’t make sense, as it’s a real opportunity for genuine nationalists to promote the soundness of their own positions by stressing the disease-related dangers to which globalism has exposed the West.

    But instead, he’d just rather be “right.” He needs to say, “I told you so” — and that seems to matter to him more than anything else.

    • How odd. The above post was meant as a reply to Thom re: RamzPaul. I don’t know why it got separated into its own thread. At any rate, it’s RamZ who I’m talking about.

      • Yep you are right karsten, Ramzpaul has absolutely lost it, wasn’t a big fan to begin with but always see what he had to say. His corona takes are so bad they are Bill Mitchell tier tho not nearly as funny

  5. FDA issues emergency authorization of anti-malaria drug for coronavirus care
    “The agency allowed for the drugs to be “donated to the Strategic National Stockpile to be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible,” HHS said in a statement, announcing that Sandoz donated 30 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to the stockpile and Bayer donated 1 million doses of chloroquine.”

    • I wrote about this over two weeks ago, and no one said boo, except False Fauci said ‘We can’t prove’ this… as his cronies work toward an ISRAELI vaccine ALREADY IN DEVELOPMENT!?!?!

      “An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)” Presented by: James M. Todaro, MD (Columbia MD, and Gregory J. Rigano, Esq. ( In consultation with Stanford University School of Medicine, UAB School of Medicine and National Academy of Sciences researchers ***March 13, 2020***

      Yeah, right. We need to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to halt this Plague, and then, after it’s done, HOLD THE GUILTY (PELOSI, SCHUMER, et al.) up to the specter of the gallows, and say, CONFESS!

  6. Hunter, as usual, you are right on target. The flu or pneumonia does not bring out Chinese troops with guns or a melt down of global markets. This is different, much different, and so should be our response if we want to survive.

    And to the MAGA morons and trolls out there who believe that “America is winning” and the clock is being reset to 1776, I say, No, this is not “winning.” This is what the death throes of Empire and corporate greed look like: smoldering ashes of a once great nation.

    • The “flu” doesn’t usually kill old folks, it’s a bacterial infection that sets in afterwards. This virus causes such an extreme immune response that destroys the lungs. Was that detective who died in New York someone who would be “dead of old age by the end of the year anyway?”

  7. It is a very bad flu. I got a sore throat on February 1. It stayed several days, then all deuce broke loose. Coughing, fever, bad puking, very bad diarrea, but worst of all, my lungs were literally on fire. For almost 2 days I didn’t know if I would live or die.

    My lungs are still pretty painful, after 2 months. But I made it, and am getting back to normal.

    The last flu I had was that terrible one, in 2008. It was straight from heck, and everyone had it. I think the 2019 flu is even worse.

    But even worse than the flu is the government and judenpresse, creating a panic, AFTER THEY MADE DAMN SURE IT WAS ALREADY PANDEMIC BEFORE THEY DID ANYTHING.

    This thing was prearranged, and both sides of the uniparty are in it, 100% together.

    I am banned here, but everyone reading this should just step back and look at the big picture. This is the worst flu since 1918, yes, but no one built a totalitarian dictatorship on the back of that.

    I am from the government, and I am here to help you. Remember all that,? OR, are we all going to be totalitarians now?

    • The 1918 pandemic may have cost Germany the war. It may also have helped the Bolsheviks hold on to power in the Russian Civil War. If such things are true then the course if history was dramatically altered as a result of the “Spanish” flu.

    • This ^

      People need to understand that it can be a bad illness AND a tyrannical power grab, not just one or the other.

  8. Hunter,

    You have done outstanding work covering the coronavirus and refuting the propaganda disseminated by the likes of Chump, Tammypaul, Anglin, Rush Blimpblow, Sean Handjob, etc.

    The so-called “dissident” blightwing has been exposed for the cuckservative, libercuck stawk mawket chimps that they are. Never again will I believe anything they have to say about protecting White interests.

    I’ve used the information you’ve provided elsewhere and have repeatedly blown this cult out of the water.

    I’ll never forgive nor forget their betrayal of White interests for $$$.

    Thank you.

  9. I’m sorry but all of this hysteria and panic is completely overblown. The virus is real and people will die but Covid-19 isn’t the Black Death. It’s not going to wipe out a third of the population. This isn’t going to even kill .5% of the American population. The projections are based on the same ridiculous models that claimed the polar ice caps would be gone by no from Global Warming. All this is doing is empowering those who are cynically using a crisis to empower their own agenda.

    Just be smart, safe, and enjoy the time with your families.

  10. These critics compare the proverbial apples and oranges. You can think of it this way: ponder what the comparison in death rates would be if in conftonting the annual flu, we did not have vacines and extensive vacination. Under such circumstances the death rates could very well be the same, And since we do not have a vacine for this flu, these critics are not say anything worth saying about the policies we should be pursuing.

    • William –

      The fact that we have flu vaccines is irrelevant. They don’t work, and if anything they make even more people sick.

  11. I always take this way of looking at things .

    How are Japan and Singapore handling this.

    Japan and Singapore have extremely strict immigration, borders, alien people policies. During March flu season , the Japanese wear masks , bow a lot instead of hugging and kissing .

    Japanese cities are safe and clean because they are populated by safe, healthy Japanese people. 6 year old Japanese children can take trains by themselves across whole cities . That s not possible in American cities like Atlanta (MARTA) or San Francisco /Oakland .

    Drug addicts and mentally ill homeless people are shooting up, sharing needles and pooping in public . That s going to cause lots and lots of health problems like TB and all kinds of viruses .

    Chicago used to dump our water in to Lake Michigan – our drinking water – cholera.

    Life isn’t t complicated .

    What do the Japanese do so right.

    What would the best German and other national socialists do?

    Life never seems complicated to me.

    • That’s why I always say that despite their terrible birth rate, Japanese are in no danger of extinction as compared to whites, who are. As long as they stay true to themselves, they will survive.

    • Yep. That doesn’t stop some on our side to screech about “anti-vaxxers” the same way the Jewish media does, though.

  12. “BTW, the flu and regular cases of pneumonia that derive from it don’t take out hospital workers and the police either or crash the global economy or cause global chaos.”

    Whether you’re right in your statement’s first part, about hospital workers and police, I don’t know, Mr. W.; but with the latter part, you seem to be begging the question. The global disruption, economic and otherwise, is a result of governments’ treating the virus as something different from the flu; it’s not evidence that the virus is, in fact, something different.

  13. So, let us look at the very latest statistics for New York as registered on Sunday, the 29th. March 2020: 279 persons died with the Corona virus.

    Now you informed us that on the very worst days in New York a year or two back 9 persons were dying each day from influenza and 34 persons were each day from pneumonia, giving a total of 43 persons dying from these illnesses. You inform us that this combined death rate represented 9.8 % of all deaths at that time in New York . So we can say that 430 persons at that time were dying each day in New York.

    So we can make a comparison: on last Sunday, 279 persons died with the virus compared with a total of 430 persons .

    So the conclusion is : three quarters approximately of all those deaths on Sunday were registered as suffering from the Corona virus. This proves only that the medical staff checked for the presence of the virus in the persons dying. The actual real cause of death is in almost all cases extreme old age, plus heart disease, cancer, etc, the real killers. The second conclusion is that in New York, not surprisingly , the virus is now widespread.

    I repeat : for some reason the authorities are hyping this up exactly as they used 9/11 to bring in the liberty-destroying Patriot Act and to launch their endless wars in the Middle East. There is a similar sinister purpose behind this. .

    • Alternatively, there isn’t a massive conspiracy, which invovles the whole planet at this point, and our incompetent elites are confronted with a serious crisis. 332 people have died in New York since last night which has never happened, ever, due to the flu in the span of 12 hours.

  14. Your data is waaay jacked, my dude… not sure how or why…

    Before flu hysteria, the accepted average was one person dead, in the US, every 12 seconds.

    “According to the United Nations World Population Prospects report, approximately 7,452 people die every day in the United States.”

    Even if we round up and say Wuflu takes out 500 a day, on average, in the US, that is only a paltry 6 (or so) percent of the entire normal daily death rate…and that percentage is probably a lot larger than it should be since many who die from Wuflu were likely already going to die from some other ailment anyway (like elderly, already struggling with pneumonia, or cancer victims with weak immune systems).

    • 332 people have died in New York since last night. Show me a flu season where 332 people have died in New York in under 12 hours and I will happily concede the argument.

  15. @Shotgun

    Good points. There’s also reports (can’t verify if true) that the reason Italy’s death toll is so high is that they’re testing people after death. Which if the person had the virus in them when they died it’s counted as the cause even if they died of something else.

    More people are going to die from the cure than the disease if they crash the economy. Alcoholism, drug use, suicides, the opioid crisis; are all going to explode when that happens. Despair is far deadlier for the white man than the kung flu.

  16. HW: question: in 2019-2020 when the final bill is rung up, there will more deaths attributed to corona or the flu?

    If we go by current rates, there will be about 12 to 15 K US deaths attributed to corona, similar to Sars1, MERS, H1N1. (Compare 24k for the run of the mill flu). If we add the numbers together it is a mainline flu season.

    In my neck of the woods literally no one has died of corona – unlike the flu. Isnt it odd that major Enemy strongholds who need this politically and are literally backsides over a barrel because the high priests of twitter literally shut down the economy are the only ones getting hit?! Viruses dont adhere to political divisions! But this one does!!

    In fact if we split the country up along any kind of reasonable model – our country would be from all practical standpoints UNSCATHED!

    This is a totally unjustified OVERREACTION!!

    That said, I’m having home of the best weeks of my life! There are a lot of salutory effects from this panic. Kids are home. Restaurants are empty, parks are full! People are working less Deaths in America are way down! Traffic is very livable. Curiously I’m seeing less illegals – anecdotal for sure, but intriguing – do they feel safer in Mexico? Restaurants closed?

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