Zennie Abraham on White Nationalism

Zennie Abraham, a negro blogger who writes for the San Francisco Chronicle, is confusing White Nationalists with the ‘Banals’, ‘Implicit Whites’, or ‘MARs’ who are supporting the rightwing conservative Tea Party movement:

For the record, a ‘White Nationalist’ is someone who believes (at a minimum) in the creation of a White ethnostate in North America. You can learn that much on Wikipedia. The vast majority of the MARs backing the Tea Party movement have never heard of White Nationalism and only have a vague, unarticulated sense of their own whiteness. Generally speaking, they don’t believe in the racial inferiority of non-Whites.

A bona fide White Nationalist is explictly  White and unapologetic in his/her embrace of racialism. How such an ignorant mediocrity as Zennie Abraham came to be employed by SFGate.com is an open question and points to the decline of American journalism in its inane pursuit of ‘diversity’ in all areas. A 10th grader working on a homework assignment could have learned more about ‘White Nationalism’ with a few Google searches than from this pathetic excuse for an article.

But anyway, let it be said, I do happen to admire the Confederate flag, although that doesn’t make me a ‘conservative’ by a long shot. The Stars and Bars symbolizes a number of things to me: belonging to a “White man’s country,” Anglo-Celtic ethnicity and culture, states’ rights, agrarian values, honor and aristocracy … everything that was good about the America of my White ancestors, and lacking in the contemporary USA. Secession was a great idea in the 1860’s. It remains so even in our own times.

My only honest regret is that the Confederacy lost the Civil War. If I had lived in those times, I would have been a Secesh too. Like William Lowndes Yancey, I would have been “a disunionist, 27 feet high, weighing three thousand pounds and eating a little boiled nigger every morning for breakfast, and a roasted Union man for dinner.”  Well, not literally, but even a field negro as dumb as Zennie Abraham can grasp the point.

In the aftermath of the Civil War, the long forgotten Robert Barnwell Rhett called for “a Union of the White race of the South.” This great ideal was never realized. I like to call it ‘White Nationalism’.

Update: I’m going to play Dixie for no other reason than to piss this nigger off.

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46 Comments

  1. Thanks for playing Dixie. I’ve loved that song ever since I was a little boy. Still do. Always will.

  2. I don’t think modern WN has that much to do with the Confederacy. The vast majority of us are white separatists who want to live in an all white or nearly all white society. The Confederates wanted to live with lots of black slaves in their fields and black servants in their houses.

    Modern white nationalism traces it’s origins from the anti-communist movement and the remnants of the Northern/Midwestern America First movement and WASP racialists. It’s a mostly Northern movement. Southerners were not involved during its formation, as is the case with conservatism. Southern white supremacism was a parallel phenomenon. Attempts by early Northern WNs to cooperate with Southern Segregationists left the former disillusioned with the later, a judgment that was vindicated by the subsequent total evaporation of the Segregationist moment and the wholesale embrace of the worst kind of conservatism by the ex-Segregationists.

  3. Ho Hum.
    I suppose the concept of irony escaped you; well, obviously it did. I saw your post and just had to communicate how much laughter I got out of it. The deeper meaning of what I wrote escaped you, but not others. This proves that racism indeed does cause a reduction in intellectual capacity. Still, thanks for sparing. Debating you would be fun. Cheers!

  4. ” The Stars and Bars symbolizes a number of things to me: belonging to a “White man’s country,” Anglo-Celtic ethnicity and culture, states’ rights, agrarian values, honor and aristocracy … everything that was good about the America of my White ancestors, and lacking in the contemporary USA.”

    Then I don’t understand your aversion to the label ‘conservative’. Each of these principles may be regarded as a central tenet of conservatism – national identity, aristocracy, and traditionalist values.

  5. You weren’t being ‘ironic’. This isn’t the first time I have caught you playing fast and loose with the term “White Nationalism.” You obviously don’t know what the term means. I hope you learned something from your little visit here. Make a note of the following for future reference:

    1.) We’re not conservatives.
    2.) We’re not poor or uneducated.
    3.) We’re glad that Obama is president.

    Barack Obama has done more for the White Nationalist movement in six months than George W. Bush did in eight years. I wish him nothing but peace and long life.

  6. ATBOTL,

    You obviously haven’t read Sen. Theodore Bilbo’s Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization. Bilbo spent years pushing his Back to Africa bill in the Senate. Sen. John Tyler Morgan wanted to resettle emancipated negroes in the Congo.

  7. It’s often bandied about how whites are racist if they even have a tinge of collective thinking or group interests. Yet, blacks voted 95% in favor of Obama. It’s celebrated that a black man is president, not an accomplished or great man, merely because he is black. It’s total racial chauvinism. Yet, we never hear about blacks being racist.

    It’s amazing to me that seemingly rational people of all colors can be so blindly and self-righteously hypocritical.

    Zennie doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

  8. I’ve come into contact with European white nationalists who use the Confederate flag to symbolize their defiance and racial nationalism since it’s not banned like some others. I’m proud of that.

  9. I don’t have a problem with the term “conservatism” in the sense that GuessedWorker uses it. That’s a far cry from its American meaning though.

  10. Our country, culture, and discourse have been hijacked by a hostile alien elite. Modern conservatism has little to do with its traditional past. If it doesn’t conserve the genetic and cultural heritage of the people then it’s not doing its job.

  11. “Conservatism” in America has always meant going back to an older pre-New Deal strain of liberalism. The only exception that comes to mind are a handful of obscure Antebellum writers who rejected liberalism in their zealous defense of slavery.

    George Fitzhugh was the most famous exponent of this point of view. He wrote a book called Sociology for the South, or the Failure of Free Society which attacked the whole liberal tradition from Locke to Jefferson. Tom Sunic is a fan of Fitzhugh and wrote about him in his book Homo Americanus.

  12. Conservatism has been described as the negation of ideology and maintaining the status quo.

    You definitely see that with mainstream conservatives, who oppose racism and just want us all to get along and enjoy being happy consumers while our country goes to hell.

    HBDers are another example of that mentality.

  13. From Theodore Bilbo’s book Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization:

    Action is demanded! We must solve the problem completely and irrevocably, or we must prepare ourselves for the inevitable blood admixture of the white and black races in the United States-total mongrelization.

    No one can deny the importance of this question. Its very essence involves the preservation of the white race as well as the Negro race; it is a matter of blood. Compared with the interests which we have at stake in this issue, all questions concerning education, agriculture, trade and commerce, labor and capital, tariffs and subsidies fade into insignificance. This Nation with all its might and glory would never have achieved its greatness without the directing hand and creative genius of the white race, and any effort to destroy the blood of this race by contamination with the blood of Africa is an effort to destroy the Nation and its future. To deny these truths is to deny all history itself. – http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/tyc/tyc-01.html

  14. “You obviously haven’t read Sen. Theodore Bilbo’s Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization.”

    I find it improbable that Bilbo could have had much input in what could realistically be called “the Confederacy” in that he was born twelve years after said political-territorial entity effectively ceased to exist. So, Plan A, ‘let’s revolt so we can keep our niggers working our fields’, that having failed, Plan B, ‘they won’t let us make our niggers work our fields, so let’s ship ’em back where they came from’, seems more accurate; at least to me.

  15. 1.) The specific claim was that Southerners were not involved in the formation of White Nationalism. That’s obviously not true. Bilbo’s Take Your Choice was one of the earliest tracts of its kind.

    2.) Abraham Lincoln wasn’t elected to abolish slavery in the Southern states. He supported an irrevocable constitutional amendment that would have secured the institution forever.

    3.) During Reconstruction, the Republican Party wrote racial equality into the U.S. Constitution in the 14th and 15th Amendments, so the worst fears of the secessionists were hardly misplaced.

  16. “The deeper meaning of what I wrote escaped you, but not others. This proves that racism indeed does cause a reduction in intellectual capacity.”

    Abraham, either in effect or by intent you act as a bottleneck on information and a cog in an organ of propaganda which keeps Whites oblivious to the true interests, the most fundamental of which is their interest in continuing to exist as a people – yes, I mean to continue to exist genetically as they are. Our people are dying, and if present trends persist we will cease to be (for if one you love were so genetically altered that they were no longer themselves they would have in effect died), given that, what you are involved in can only be characterized as anti-White genocidalism. Did you get that last part shithead? We here discuss nothing less than fully halting, and reversing all the death dealing inertia of a system which takes our people ever closer towards the grave. Those are the stakes, make no mistake in that. Eventually, you will yield, or you will be made to yield, whether or not it is voluntary is up to you.

  17. Abraham prefers the company of blacks while pursuing pro-black political interests. He doesn’t like Whites doing anything that even approaches the same.

    Pot, kettle, racist.

  18. White nationalism is a Jewish construct. Bilbo was a bridge between the Scientific Racialists, Northernern and Darwinian and the Radical Racialists, Southern and biblical. Nordics both (Bilbo was a great admirer of Madison Grant and vehemently contemptuous of Franz Boas) SR was more concerned with the mass Jewish/Catholic migration versus the RR’s fear of black/white miscegenation.

    What was the impact of a failed Confederacy?

    Published in 1923, Jefferson Davis:
    President of the South, by Hamilton J. Eckenrode, the official historian of the state of Virginia, is an explicit attempt, as the author says, to “apply anthropological science to American history.”

    The South fought for the race which has made the world what it is, for the agricultural organization of life, for political conservatism, for social order…Between two groups of Nordics fighting a mighty fight was this difference—that one fought for the Nordic race, the other against it…The chief result of the Civil War was the ruin it brought on the Nordic race in America…In the more than half century since the great struggle, immigration has swamped [us]. The New England of today…contains a thin Nordic upper class and a mass of factory workers of almost wholly non-Nordic stock… [T]he South [too] is changing, and the time must come when it, like the rest of the country, will be largely non-Nordic. But what has Jefferson Davis to do with all this? Much. The Southern Confederacy was, essentially, a protest against modernity. It was…the
    effort of the Nordic race to save itself. If it had succeeded, there would have been a new chapter in history…Success depended…on Jefferson Davis.

    He failed…and with him faded the last hope of the Nordic race.

    Well, (this was 1923) not quite the last hope and, ironically, the South led the charge, in the U.S., to destroy the final hope of the Nordic race.

  19. White nationalism is a Jewish construct.

    Tell us, Desmond: who are the Jews behind White Nationalism?

    Well, (this was 1923) not quite the last hope and, ironically, the South led the charge, in the U.S., to destroy the final hope of the Nordic race.

    1.) The Union invaded the Confederacy, not the other way around. The North could always have allowed the South to secede in peace. Rhode Island and North Carolina weren’t coerced into joining the original Union. The Lincoln administration bears 100% of the responsibility for the war.

    2.) It was the North that gave us the 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution. The South wanted no part of either. There was no popular constituency for negro equality in the Southern states.

    3.) It is hardly our fault that the North was flooded with millions of European immigrants. The blame rests with the Northern industrialists who wanted an endless supply of cheap labor for their capitalist economy.

    4.) The North gave us all the federal civil rights laws that now exist.

  20. Lot’s of great writing in Senator Bilbo’s book:

    “What is the real issue at stake? Why this determination on the part of the South to maintain the color line and to fight back with all her strength against the combined efforts of certain groups in our Nation, white and black, to break down segregation and to destroy Southern ideals and customs? The answer is simple. The South stands for blood, for the preservation of the blood of the white race.

    To preserve her blood, the white South must absolutely deny social equality to the Negro regardless of what his individual accomplishments might be. This is the premise – openly and frankly stated – upon which Southern policy is based. This position is so thoroughly justified in the minds of white Southerners that it is sometimes difficult for them to comprehend the reasoning of those who seriously dispute it.

    The alternatives are as clear as the sun. If we sit with Negroes at our tables, if we attend social functions with them as our social equals, if we disregard segregation in all other relations, is it then possible that we maintain it fixedly in the marriage of the South’s Saxon sons and daughters? The answer must be “No.” By the absolute denial of social equality to the Negro, the barriers between the races are firm and strong. But if the middle wall of the social partition should be broken down, then the mingling of the tides of life would surely begin. It would be a slow process, but the result would be the same. And though the process be gradual, it would be none the less irresistible and inevitable. The lower strata of the white population would probably feel the first effects, and within the foreseeable future the middle and upper classes would be invaded. Then, the Southern white race, the Southern Caucasian, would be irretrievably doomed.” – http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/tyc/tyc-04.html

  21. Prozium #22 misunderstands Desmond’s comment. Where Desmond says,

    “Well, (this was 1923) not quite the last hope and, ironically, the South led the charge, in the U.S., to destroy the final hope of the Nordic race,”

    he’s referring not to the idea the South was the instigator of Lincoln’s War of Northern Aggression but to statistics he’s posted at MR.com suggesting that, of all sections of the U.S., Dixie was the most eager for the U.S. to declare war on Germany after 1939. He’s saying the stand taken by the South in Lincoln’s War of Northern Aggression was “not quite the last hope” of the Nordic race, and that what was the Nordic race’s last hope, namely WW II, was destroyed in a charge led by the South (since polls taken back then showed, or so he has posted elsewhere, that Southerners were the most eager to fight the Nazis).

  22. Prozium:”Bilbo’s Take Your Choice was one of the earliest tracts of its kind.”

    Don’t forget about Earnest Cox’s book White America: The American Racial Problem as Seen in a Worldwide Perspective (1937), which preceded Bilbo’s Take Your Choice: Separation or Mongrelization (1947) by at least 10 years (correct me if I’m wrong).

    White America can be read @ http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/cox/ (does anyone know where a free PDF of that book can be had?)

  23. Sorry, let me make that a little clearer:

    “and that what was the Nordic race’s last hope, namely the Axis Powers of WW II, was destroyed in a charge led by the South”

  24. ”Bilbo’s Take Your Choice was one of the earliest tracts of its kind.”

    Wasn’t there something similar said in a speech by the Vice-President of the CSA during Lincoln’s War of Northern Aggression? A speech in which he put forth the view that, fundamentally, what the CSA were fighting for was the racial preservation of white people (“white people” meaning, in that place and era, Anglo-Saxons)?

  25. Well, not literally, but even a field negro as dumb as Zennie Abraham can grasp the point.

    I think he is a House Nigger though no?

    Malcom was a Field Nigger.

    I see he hasn’t come back.

    Debating us? I can only imagine. We discuss obscure philosophers for fun and the average IQ over here is above 120 without a doubt.

  26. FS:”and that what was the Nordic race’s last hope, namely WW II, was destroyed in a charge led by the South”

    Nah, the Germans didn’t lose WWII just because a bunch of Southern boys were itchin’ for a fight against the Nazis, it was lost because of Hitler’s idiotic decision to invade of the USSR in June 1941. If Hitler wouldn’t have ordered the invasion of the USSR, then NSGermany could’ve just waited patiently for that rotten Judeocommunist empire to collapse from within as it eventually did (all Jew-infested/Jew-dominated nations rot rather quickly), and National Socialist Germany would very likely still exist today.

  27. Instead of attacking Pearl Harbor why didn’t Japan sign onto Barbarossa, invading from the east in a two-front attack certain to result in Bolshevik surrender before winter, no U.S. entry into the war, London forced to accept terms for a cease-fire, no “World War II” but a limited war ended by negotiated settlement by somewhere in 1942, no massive round-up of Jews into concentration camps, no Holocau$t myth, Berlin humanely re-settling Europe’s Jews elsewhere, etc., etc., etc.?

  28. Prozium —

    Those people weren’t involved in the formation of the White Nationalist movement and were mostly active before such a thing existed. WN originated from George Lincoln Rockwell and ANP, the John Birch Society and other anti-communist groups, The America First Committee and Gerald L. K Smith’s America First Party and remnants of the New England WASP dominated racialist movement, which had been very influential in the early part of the 20th Century. These were all based in the North and had little to no following in the South. Segregationists though these people were too radical, too anti-Semitic and not “patriotic” enough.

    Here’s a quote from the Wikipedia article on Smith: “Smith lobbied for decades for release of all Nazi war criminals convicted at the Nuremberg War Tribunals. He later suggested that the Holocaust never happened and that various politicians had links to a ‘Jewish Conspiracy’. Smith was shunned by most politicians, even hard-right figures such as Senator J. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, who distanced the States’ Rights Democratic Party from Smith.”

    Southern Segregationists may have said similar things as White Nationalists do, but they were not the founders of White Nationalism. You should know this if you have read Oliver’s “America’s Decline”, Yockey’s “Imperium” or Simpson’s “Which Way Western Man?”. Those are the founding texts of WN and they were all written by Northerners who were influenced by racialism and National Socialism, not segregation or the Confederacy.

    The Segregationists and early White Nationalists were in different worlds. They didn’t communicate or interact in any way until the late 60’s when some of the younger white racialists in the South started being influenced by the ANP and Neo-Nazism and some Northern WNs got involved with George Wallace’s 1968 presidential campaign. That’s when you had men like David Duke and Don Black getting involved with WN. The old fashioned Segregationist movement died int eh 70’s and WN absorbed some of its more radical supporters who saw through the scam of Conservatism that the ex-Segregationist leaders like Strom Thurmond were embracing.

    Interestingly, the Northern Klan that had over a million members had disappeared before White Nationalism started to take form and there doesn’t seem to be any strong links between the two movements. I can’t find any references to anyone involved in early White Nationalism being involved with the Klan and it’s not mentioned in any early writings that I am aware of.

    The faction of the modern White Nationalism that has the strongest ties to Segregationism is Jared Taylor and the CCC, who don’t want to talk about Jews. They have marginalized men like Revilo Oliver, Gerald LK Smith, George Lincoln Rockwell and William Pierce by ignoring their contributions and trying to suck up to Republicans and Neoconservatives.

    Here is a link to some of William G. Simpson’s writings:

    http://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/ToolBarTopics/Articles/Featured_Authors/Simpson,_William_Gayley/simpson_index.html

    He was once a Northern liberal Protestant minister, by the way.

    Early White Nationalists like Simpson were radicals who saw more than the Segregationists did. The Segregationists were reactionaries who recognized that Negroes were unfit for civilization, but didn’t address broader issues like Jewish influence, the flaws of Democracy, white infighting(they were fanatical supporters of US involvement in both World Wars) or the negative influence of Christianity on white ethnocentrism.

  29. White P., you would do well to familiarize yourself with Stalin’s plans to wage an aggressive was against Germany and cutting it off from Roman oil supplies. This is no longer a controversial point as Stalin’s secret speech of 1939 to the Politburo. Had Germany not pre-empted Stalin, Stalin would’ve watered his horses at the Thames.
    http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/16/6/Michaels28.html

  30. I didn’t know that WEB DeBois said that only 10% of Negroes have the mental capacity to work alongside Whites and that the rest are only suitable to servile, menial tasks.

  31. That was an excellent post ATBOTL, but William G. Simpson was a Franciscan which is a Catholic order founded by St Frances of Assisi. I only mention it as it is important factor in his faith, compassion, world view and character.

    St Frances is one of the great spiritual ascetics of Western History.

    WGS walked barefoot in sympathy with the German people during WWII.

  32. “Blumenthal is another minority who conflates Repubs with White Nationalists.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wx1rhg-ses

    That’s nearly as bad as conflating Jews with whites.

    Blumenthal does make a good point in that video. Christians believe they are inherently sinful. They need God to control their abhorrent souls.

    So the more Christian one is the more dysfunctional they are. Like a drug addict that needs constant supervision and therapy.

    Blum’s analogy of Republicans as zombies was funny.

    “Well, not literally, but even a field negro as dumb as Zennie Abraham can grasp the point.”

    He’s a Jew’s house negro maybe. Fits his name and partial ancestry.

  33. “I didn’t know that WEB DeBois said that only 10% of Negroes have the mental capacity to work alongside Whites and that the rest are only suitable to servile, menial tasks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyu1DS9WH4g&feature=sub

    That percentage being related to the quantity of white ancestry, which Du Bois had a significant degree of.

    “Du Bois used the term “the talented tenth” to describe the likelihood of one in ten black men becoming leaders of their race in the world, through methods such as continuing their education, writing books, or becoming directly involved in social change. He believed they needed a classical liberal education to reach their true destiny as what would in the 20th century be called public intellectuals.”

    He had a lot of ideas that have been proven false. One being that black crime was only motivated by social revolution. Another than black crime would decrease as blacks achieved social and political equality. We know that to be untrue.

    Like most negro intellectuals, he’s a fraud and hypocrite. While he supports eugenics and advocates a hierarchy within the black community he states that differences between races do not (should not!) exist.

    “In 1904, Du Bois wrote that black people show no physical variation from Europeans sufficient to base any theory of essential human difference. In 1910, Du Bois challenged eugenicist opposition to racial mixing and lent his support to racial intermarriage; he said gradations exist within all races: “I believe that there are human stocks with whom it is physically unwise to intermarry, but to think that these stocks are all colored or that there are no such white stocks is unscientific and false.””

  34. “That’s nearly as bad as conflating Jews with whites.”

    Blumenthal is more Nordic in appearance than the majority of White Americans. He’s politics are atrocious, but racially speaking he’s quite acceptable.

  35. Theodore Bilbo was a true American patriot which is probably why the Jewish writer, Nat Hiken, named his TV show’s eponymous shyster creation Sgt Bilko.

  36. “Blumenthal is more Nordic in appearance than the majority of White Americans. He’s politics are atrocious, but racially speaking he’s quite acceptable.”

    Depends on the definition of Nordic.

    He does approximate the form and pigmentation, however keep in mind he is a curly-haired redhead, and of course his race is Semitic, probably with some infusion of Northern European to give him his appearance.

    It’s been said some of the purest Germans were brunets, Goethe for example.

  37. FB:”Blumenthal is more Nordic in appearance than the majority of White Americans. He’s politics are atrocious, but racially speaking he’s quite acceptable.”

    Depends on which region of the USA you look at. If you go the Upper-Midwest where many Scandinavians live, the rate of ‘Nordic’ looks will be of course be more evident than in other areas of the USA.

    It must also be remembered that many Americans have ethnic/racial roots in the UK. Many parts of the UK have a strong Northern European or ‘Nordic’ element of course, but also a major native ‘Mediterranean’ element too. You are probably familiar with the racial history of the British Isles, but the UK was originally settled by entirely by ‘Meds’ a very long time ago; the ‘Nords’ only came later in various waves of settlement and slowly interbred with the native ‘Meds,’ thus producing a Med-Nord hybrid of which many people of Anglo-Saxon descent (including most Americans) show physical evidence of.

    In regards to Blumenthal, yes he clearly has some Northern European genes, but you still ought not “judge a book by its cover.” He still talks (nasally) and acts like a Jew, he has the ‘anti-racist’ far-leftist politics of a Jew, he has the eyes of Jew, and he has the mannerisms of a Jew (judging by the videos I’ve seen him in), and so on. My point is that very often Jewish traits in people very often end up coming back to the surface in the next generation(s) on down the line. Though Blumenthal might look rather Nordic, will his children, or his grand-children, and so on? It’s doubtful. Also, learn a bit about Max’s father, Sidney Blumenthal, who is in to all kinds of heavily Jewish stuff – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Blumenthal – and do we know if Max’s mother is a woman of full-blooded Northern Euro descent and her genes will just get mostly washed out of their Jewish family line in another few generations?

  38. If you watch that video posted by Mr Braun above – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wx1rhg-ses – you will notice that Blumenthal endlessly engages in all kinds of character assassination, especially related to the sexual proclivities of various Republicans that have been exposed.

    However, no mention of the massive amount of sexual damage that far-leftist urban Jews have done to the USA and all over the White world in the last few decades. Huge Jewish involvement in: mass production of hardcore pornography, the fervent promotion of homosexual decadence in the mass-media, prostitution and the White sex-slave trade (Israel is a main center of that), the downplaying and scoffing at the importance of monogamous relationships and the nuclear family, the promotion of anti-White male ‘feminism’ in the media and academia by masses of Jews, and so on. Also, lots of mass-media coverage of the sex-scandals which rocked Catholicism, but nary a mention of the exact same types of abuse that was and still is rampant in very many Ultra-Orthodox/Haredi Jewish communities.

  39. “named his TV show’s eponymous shyster creation Sgt Bilko.”

    BILK is part of BILKO. It starred Phil Silvers.

  40. [quote]
    The Stars and Bars symbolizes a number of things to me: belonging to a “White man’s country,” Anglo-Celtic ethnicity and culture, states’ rights, agrarian values, honor and aristocracy …
    [/quote]

    Hah, couldn’t have said it better man. That’s how I feel about it, being ur-stock American with some late 19th century Irish. That’s America’s real flag as far as I’m concerned.

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