Northwest Debate

Hardball with Hunter Wallace

Northwest Republic

Some commentators over at Counter-Currents have been taking potshots at Harold Covington in the Northwest Migration debate.

Unsurprisingly, Greg Johnson has been censoring the comments for nothing but softballs can be thrown at Herr Covington.

How about we play a round of hardball? The discussion over there has gotten a little boring. I want to see a real game.

(1) Demographically, the Pacific Northwest is not the lily White paradise that Harold Covington has made it out to be – Here are the latest numbers from the 2010 Census:

Washington: 74.6 percent White.

Oregon: 79.6 percent White.

Idaho: 84.5 percent White.

For the record, the whitest states in America are: #1. Maine, #2. Vermont, #3. West Virginia, #4. New Hampshire, #5. Iowa, #6. North Dakota, #7. Montana, #8. Kentucky, #9. Wyoming, and #10. Idaho.

… #11. South Dakota, #12. Minnesota, #13. Wisconsin, #14. Nebraska, #15. Indiana.

In Canada, Nova Scotia is 92 percent White, Newfoundland and Labrador are 97 percent White, New Brunswick is 97 percent White, Prince Edward Island is 98 percent White, and Quebec is 95 percent White.

By comparison, Arkansas is 75.1 percent White, Kentucky is 87.2 percent White, Missouri is 81.8 percent White, Tennessee is 76.5 percent White, Indiana is 82.7 percent White, Minnesota is 84.8 percent White, and Wisconsin is 84.6 percent White.

The Pacific Northwest isn’t anymore White than the typical Northern state. Washington and Oregon are less White than Missouri and Iowa.

(2) Ideologically, Washington and Oregon are Blue States dominated by the SWPL population that lives in the Ecotopia sub-nation that stretches along the Pacific Coast. – “The Pacific Northwest” is bisected into two distinct sub-regions by the Cascade Mountains: Ecotopia and Empty Corridor.

Portland and Seattle have far more in common with San Francisco and Vancouver than the region east of the Cascades. Boise and Couer d’Alene are more like Cheyenne and Helena than the Left Coast.

In terms of racial demographics, Washington (74.6 percent) and Oregon (79.1 percent) are about the same as Tennessee (76.5 percent) and Arkansas (75.1 percent), but with the crucial difference that the Whites who live there are more “liberal” and “moderate.”

Tennessee: 43.6 percent (conservative), 35.6 percent (moderate), 15.9 percent (liberal)

Arkansas: 45.0 percent (conservative), 36.4 percent (moderate), 14.7 percent (liberal).

Washington: 33.1 percent (conservative), 37.3 percent (moderate), 25.9 percent (liberal).

Oregon: 34.5 (conservative), 35.3 percent (moderate), 26.3 percent (liberal).

“The Pacific Northwest” concept looks especially silly when you throw Idaho into the mix.

Idaho: 48.5 percent (conservative), 34.5 percent (moderate), and 14.9 percent (liberal).

Idaho is the second most conservative state in America. It is wedged between Mississippi and Alabama. The state is far more like Wyoming and Montana than Western Oregon and Washington.

It is Empty Corridor.

(3) White Nationalists don’t have the numbers to compete with SWPLs in the Pacific Northwest – This is so obvious that it surprising the debate even continues past this point.

If every White Nationalist and sympathizer in the entire United States (250,000 being a generous estimate) moved to the I-5 corridor tomorrow, they would still be dwarfed by the number of SWPLs and non-Whites who live in the Seattle metropolitan area alone (est. 3,344,813).

In the last three years, 90,000 illegal aliens have moved to Washington and Oregon. Harold Covington’s worldwide audience isn’t anywhere close to that figure.

Tellingly, he refuses to release his settlement numbers. White Nationalists are a drop in this sea of White liberalism.

(4) The Northwest Imperative isn’t a new idea – Harold proudly calls the Northwest Imperative the Butler Plan.

What he doesn’t say is that Pastor Richard Butler, now deceased, and the Aryan Nations have been active in the Pacific Northwest since the early 1970s. When Butler died, the Aryan Nations had lost its headquarters in a SPLC lawsuit and had a worldwide membership of less than 300 people.

So, in other words, Richard Butler tried for 40 years to get White Nationalists to move to the Pacific Northwest, and for whatever reason they refused to respond to his call, unlike the 90,000 illegal aliens and the millions of SWPLs who have moved there in recent years, altering its political demography in a negative way.

(5) The Pacific Northwest isn’t any different from any other part of the country – Case in point, the SPLC lawsuit that bankrupted the Aryan Nations and resulted in the loss of their headquarters.

There is effectively no difference between hiding out in a bunker in Idaho and hiding out in grandma’s basement in Pennsylvania or Florida. The federal government has just as much power there as it does anywhere else.

(6) The Pacific Northwest has been sanctified by the blood of martyrs – Every single one of these episodes discredits Harold’s plan of resorting to violence.

– The White population of the Pacific Northwest didn’t shed any tears over The Order.

– The Order was sold out by the likes of Glenn Miller.

– The Order members have bitterly complained about being forgotten by the White Nationalist movement after they went to prison.

– The FBI adapted and changed its tactics following Ruby Ridge and Waco.

– Richard Butler was unable to form a successful White Nationalist colony in the region.

– No one but White Nationalists care about the Edgar Steele trial.

– Groups like the Montana Freemen were snuffed out by the FBI and ATF.

Let’s not forget: Joe Snuffy’s little backpack bomb in Spokane was hardly a rallying cry for the oppressed Whites of the Pacific Northwest. Quite the opposite.

If that bomb had detonated in the MLK parade, it would have ignited a huge backlash against White Nationalists living in the region, and Obama would have milked it like Clinton did with the Oklahoma City bombing.

It is a great example of the difference between fiction and non-fiction: in reality, law enforcement agencies like the FBI are not clumsy and inept, but are quite efficient at sending fools like Joe Snuffy to prison.

(7) The whole idea of a guerrilla war against the U.S. federal government is a fantasy – Let’s see Harold put on a uniform and lead the charge himself. He doesn’t even really believe his own bullshit. That is why he always includes disclaimers (i.e., this is fiction only) in his podcasts.

The U.S. military has decades of experience in fighting and beating insurgencies like the Iraq insurgency. There are now less than 100 al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan.

Think about it: the U.S. military defeated an insurgency in Iraq in the heart of the Islamic world. Do you think the U.S. military can’t defeat Harold Covington, Craig Cobb, and Joe Snuffy in Washington State?

How much easier would it be for the U.S. military to operate within the United States instead of projecting overwhelming force on the other side of the planet?

(8) The collapse will take care of all our problems – White Nationalists have been saying that since George Lincoln Rockwell predicted the collapse would come in 1969 and that he would be elected president in 1972. Every year the long awaited “collapse of the system” never comes.

The Roman Empire collapsed in 1453 AD.

(9) White Nationalists are too heterogeneous to accomplish anything – George Lincoln Rockwell, for example, was assassinated by one of his own followers.

Adolf Hitler was a National Socialist, but he sold his product as a German nationalist to millions of other Germans who hated democracy and the terms of the Versailles Treaty, and they only turned to him as a last resort in light of the alternative.

Harold Covington only believes that 1,000 or so White Nationalists can plant themselves in the middle of the I-5 corridor and, surrounded by millions of SWPLs in Portland and Seattle, can create an entire nation from scratch, defeat the U.S. military on its own soil, and convert the liberal and moderate population of the Pacific Northwest to National Socialism through, I guess, talking about the martyrdom of Edgar Steele on Radio Free Northwest.

(10) Harold doesn’t have a communication strategy – What do you do about the locals? Don’t worry.

Harold has a “massive outreach strategy” (which is what?) up his sleeve. Evangelizing the public can wait until after you have made the transformative life decision to uproot yourself and move there.

It is easy to denounce conservatives for their various failings. Thinking realistically though, you have to have some type of strategy for winning over 1/3 of the people who live in Washington and Oregon, and 1/2 of the people who live in Idaho.

Do you suppose ridicule will work? Setting off bombs? If so, where is the evidence that Neo-Nazi terrorists setting off bombs works? Is that what we saw in Spokane?

Hell, what did setting off bombs even accomplish in Ireland?

(11) Pointing to Empty Corridor isn’t much of an argument – Granted, the area east of the Cascades is conservative, but that is because of the population density of the region. Eastern Washington and Oregon are politically dominated by the Left Coast.

If you are going to uproot yourself and move to the Northwest, why wouldn’t you move to somewhere like Wyoming or Idaho?

I’ve already pointed out that those states (Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North and South Dakota) are more conservative, more White, have favorable tax rates and land prices, and that settlers would have more of an impact there because of the smaller population.

(12) We need a metapolitical revolution – Some White Nationalists have a naive faith in the power of ideas.

Isn’t it amusing how the people who subscribe to those ideas seem to spend the majority of their time (a.) fighting with each other, (b.) navel-gazing over obscure intellectuals, and (c.) posting essays and comments in circle jerks on the internet?

The “power of ideas” can be seen in the Northwest Imperative debate: the vast majority of the anonymous people who listen to Harold Covington and agree with his ideas are just entertaining themselves for the lulz.

They have no intention of actually moving to the Pacific Northwest. How is that any different from watching American Idol on television? It is just another way to pass the time.

These intellectuals always approach every problem in an abstract way: for example, we need a “White ethnostate,” which is a generic model that doesn’t refer to any specific place; we need to build a “community,” which doesn’t refer to any specific community, only to an abstract ideal of one; we need a “homeland,” which is also a concept, not a place; we need a “myth,” which doesn’t refer to anything substantial.

No one but intellectuals appreciate these elaborate ideological sand castles. White people are not going to unite on the basis of a proposition nation.

The neocons and libertarians are also wrong on that score.

(13) We can use bombs to drive out the White liberals – Joe Snuffy of VNN Forum was dumb enough to take that idea seriously. Rachel Maddow used the Spokane bomb as fodder to polarize Whites against White Nationalists.

(14) After moving to the Pacific Northwest, White Nationalists can tutor the natives in White racial consciousness – Does the Pacific Northwest have some kind of secret sauce?

Are the people who live there unfamiliar with the Aryan Nations? Why would the same tactics which have failed elsewhere succeed there?

(15) A skeleton in the costume of a fantasy world – That’s Harold Covington’s contribution to White Nationalism.

He took an abstract model and wove a fantasy world around it. The Northwest Republic is Star Wars or Star Trek for White Nationalists. It is no more real than the United Federation of Planets.

(16) Harold plays good music – Well, I can’t win every argument. So let’s concede that point.

Personally, I like that “Rising of the Moon” song – it’s catchy, but it is about Ireland, not the Pacific Northwest, as are most of the other tunes in Harold’s repertoire, which he uses as metaphors for revolutionary struggle … something twice removed from the original source.

What do the American sub-nations really sound like? These songs well up from the roots of a people.

This one is more Northwesty:

This one is more California:

This one is more Empty Corridor:

This one is more Heartland:

This one is more Dixie:

This one is more Foundry:

This one is more South Florida:

You can listen to Skynyrd, Bruce Springsteen, and George Strait and really get the sense that they are capturing something essential about the people who live in those areas, their environment, and way of seeing the world.

They tap into something that goes way beyond grievances and abstractions – hence, their enduring popularity and resonance with millions of ordinary White people.

What is the White Nationalist equivalent of that? Jamming away with Irish metaphors about a proposition nation?

Sorry, but that doesn’t bring the house down like George Strait in Kansas City. It is not even close to a substitute.

(17) What’s YOUR solution – This suggests there is a solution. Maybe there isn’t one. White people will respond to their racial predicament in different ways.

The vast majority of White people are unwilling to uproot themselves for ideological reasons. They are even less willing to throw away their lives for an ideology. I can tell you that much.

“White Zionists,” racialists who vote with their feet, are a minority of White Nationalists. Personally, I think the people who share that mindset should move to Empty Corridor and try to imitate the Mormons or Amish.

Maybe they could have an impact on the state level in a place like Wyoming or Montana. Alternatively, they could stay put where they are and think more about what makes their corner of America distinct.

About Hunter Wallace 12381 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent


  1. The blacker areas of Alabama are losing population.

    In West Alabama, the gerrymandered majority black Seventh Congressional District lost around 70,000 people. The blacks who are moving to the South aren’t coming back to the rural areas. They are going to some of the major cities.

    White Nationalists often forget that Whites from the Northern states are moving to the Sunbelt in search of jobs too. It seems like there are many more White Northerners here than blacks who have moved from the North.

  2. I don’t have any objection to rebelling against the federal government.

    In order for a rebellion to work, it must be perceived as legitimate by the White majority, which logically means you have to take control of a state government and force a confrontation with the feds over some extremely polarizing issue.

    If you take the law into your own hands, as Joe Snuffy did in Spokane and HAC advocates, you will be seen as nothing more than a common criminal and the “rebellion” won’t even get off the ground because no one will support you.

  3. Hunter Wallace writes:

    “My community is Barbour County, AL. When I hear the word “community,” I think of cities in East Alabama like Auburn and Eufaula where my friends and family live.

    I think of specific places, all the people I know, all the experiences I have had there. I think of the church in my front yard that is over a hundred years old.”

    Jack Ryan replies.

    Barbour County Alabama sounds like a beautiful place, almost too good to be real. But it is real.

    Hunter, there is no reason for you or any of the authentic local White folks in Barbour County Alabama to go anywhere – this is your beloved homeland – in the Southland. Knowing now what you know – isn’t it time for you to shut down O.D. and commit all your time and energy connecting with your folk community in Barbour County Alabama?

    Let one of your 5 male children in 30 years take up these issues of arguing with contrarian neo pagan White Nationalists in some new fictional nation in the Pacific NorthWest or toothless hockey players from Finland or worse – YANKEES from Chicago where most/all of the White career women are no fun.

    You have your own homeland, folk community – time to come home.

    O.D. really should stage it’s final curtain call.

    Take care White brother.


  4. Crusader88 says: “Your points against the practicality of the Butler Plan seem sound, but you went far beyond constructive criticism.”

    It’s not the “Butler Plan” anymore. Because of the flood of non-Whites and California liberals to the Northwest, Pastor Richard Butler finally concluded that the feasibility of making a White homeland in the Northwest was no longer as credible as it had seemed.

  5. Jack Ryan says: “O.D. really should stage it’s final curtain call.”

    Obviously the direction that Hunter Wallace has taken is not pleasing to an incorribible Covingtonista like you. On that basis you are asking him to shut up.

    If you don’t like the blog, why don’t you just go hang out on Covington’s or Lindstedt’s forum? I for one damned sure won’t miss you.

  6. Or better yet, Counter-Currents. I should have thought of that. It’s Covington Central now. Perfect place for Jack Ryan and Chechar and all their pals.

  7. On Counter-Currents you can read Fourmyle of Ceres’s long, pretentious posts that always promote Harold Covington and refer to Charlie Brown and the football, and often conclude with, “We can learn from this!”

  8. This blog is about the American South (until I feel like a broader focus is needed) and there won’t be many future discussions about Harold Covington provided he doesn’t do something extraordinary like write yet another book about me.

    The last post was about Virginia. The next one will be about Tennessee.

    For months now, I have started each new discussion by first identifying a specific place that is somehow relevant to the story. I like to discuss real people and real places. It helps keep everything we are doing here grounded in reality.

    The reason I narrowed the focus of this blog was because:

    (1) I figured there would be less fighting here.

    (2) I can write more authoritatively about what I know.

    (3) I decided that intensity is better a way to go.

    (4) It has always been one of my interests and there is so much about this topic that hasn’t been said.

    (5) I realized that White Nationalists were too heterogeneous and that this was the source of most of the infighting.

    (6) I realized there were important cultural antecedents to much of the fighting.

  9. This is a good post, but at some point you should explain your understanding of the risks and potential choices facing the US federal government as regards the debt and budget situation, and how and why the likely outcomes do not qualify as collapse.

    I’ll make a prediction: by 2020, the US will have either defaulted on its debt or entered a hyperinflationary period that will have far worse effects than what it did in Weimar. Best case results for that is Argentina, with large parts of all the major cities being no-go zones, and police forces just about everywhere focused on extracting “revenue” from passersby because there is no other way to pay their paychecks.

    The stresses of such a situation, particularly as regards some states (California particularly) attempting to force others (northern-tier white ones) to cover budget shortfalls, will have unpredictable results.

    Oh and as regards songs:

    This is/was the unofficial anthem of Quebec.

  10. Can’t you speed up your timetable, Rollory? By 2020 I’m likely to be dead, and miss out on all the fun.

  11. I live up in the PACNW, and the I-5 corridor is indeed a problem that has to be seriously considered. Only with a total collapse and widespread chaos can that situation even be remotely mitigated, and even then all one can reasonably do is “encourage” the SWPL crowd and their minority “brothers” to migrate south to California. Let’s face it – the “problems” number in the literal but low millions. Thankfully, but quite by design, I am several hundred miles to the east and buried in the Rockies.

    “Home is where the heart is”, and if South is it, then make a stand where your dirt is. If it seems untenable, you are welcome up here. Idaho, Montana, the eastern parts of Oregon and Washington as well as Wyoming and even the Dakota’s. These are the places real white people like, not Portland or Seattle. Whatever and wherever it is, Git-R-Done!

  12. Christian Identity Allies of Harold Covington

    Christian Identity holds that White people are the ‘lost’ ten (actually thirteen) tribes of Israel. The Dual-Seedline variant holds that there are two seed-lines, one good, through Adam-Noah-Abraham-Isaac-Jacob/Israel line, and the evil jews who are the spawn of Satan through Satan’s seduction of Eve, giving birth to Cain, the first jew. Then through Canaan, the son of Ham and Naamah, Tubal-cain’s sister. The sephardic jews are through Esau-Edom from Esau marrying two Hivite women. The Ashkenazi jews are from the Hittite Canaanites who got scattered by the ancient Galacians/Greeks around 1200 BC through to the Khazars, who got beaten by Prince Vladimir’s grandfather Stanislas around 900 AD. There has been a Genesis 3:15 enmity between the two seedlines for seven thousand years. (Septuagint dating as opposed to Maseortic dating.) The jews have infested the Adamites for 7,000 years and have set up numerous ZOG/Babylons to miscegenate away the Adamic/White race. We are living in ZOG/Babylon the Third — and Final.

    Thus I believe that it will be the Great Tribulation killing 90% of the whiggers, along with all of the jews and muds, which will be the salvation of the Christian Israelite people, not bringing about a Northwest Republic. However, trying for a NW Republic through revolution doesn’t in any way conflict with my religious beliefs because somebody has to rebel against ZOG/Babylon someplace, sometime, and thus Harold’s work doesn’t conflict with DSCI beliefs. ZOG/Babylon must be destroyed.

    So I am an ally of Harold Covington, although I don’t always agree with Harold. We agree 85% of the time and I have no oxen gored by Harold, although I’m not planning to move to the Northwest. I have property in South Dakota, where my family of Swedes originated here in America.

    I’m sort of in between web pages right now, thanks to a dirty little ARA mamzer pretending to be CI, along with two jews pretending to be DSCI pastors.

    I wish Harold would have specified that I live in Southwest Missouri (Granby/Neosho) near Joplin, Kansas, and Oklahoma as opposed to SouthEastern Missouri around Tennessee, Kentucky, Illinois, and Mississippi. Travelling them secondary roads over 300 miles across the Ozarks is out of the question. However, I am forwarding your message, to a woman who lives in your general area from Harold’s contact list.

    Hail Victory!!!

    Pastor Martin Luther Dzerzhinsky Lindstedt
    Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations of Missouri

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