Response To Vox Day

Vox Day has written a response to my previous article on The Alt-Lite and Conservatism:

“This is why the Alt-West is the future of the Alt-Right and not the Alt-White. The latter not only insists upon a one-size-fits-all tactical approach, but it refuses to be honest with itself about the observable realities of its potential adherents. It’s a bit ironic for Hunter Wallace to denigrate the thinking ability of the Alt-Lite opinion leaders considering how many obvious errors he commits here.”

Am I really the one doing this?

To be fair, some of the Alt-Lite brands (MILO, PJW, Cernovich, Bill Mitchell) have explicitly disavowed and/or condemned the Alt-Right in the hope of carving out a gig within mainstream conservatism. Bill Mitchell was on Watters World last night. He said in a video the other day that he didn’t understand what the Alt-Right was and thought it meant being “against the establishment.” Most of the key players are not really in the picture anymore. They don’t identify with the Alt-Right and won’t determine its future.

As for the Alt-West, I don’t think I have ever written anything about it except to note that Vox Day has embroiled himself in a conflict with Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists. Years ago, I learned it was a waste of time to fight with these people. They’re going to do their own thing. They have their own sites and aren’t going anywhere. Again, I am not the one fighting with Andrew Anglin and The Daily Stormer, and I am not fighting with Richard Spencer either. Their approach is different from mine … and that’s cool.

I happen to like RAMZPAUL, Jared Taylor and Richard Spencer. You don’t see me demanding that they wave a Confederate Battle Flag to prove themselves. Again, I try not to have a problem with anyone as long as I think they are authentic, but if you are just a *brand* with no real beliefs and you are trying to market your way into my community in order to sell penis pills or a supplement line, we’re going to have a problem. This is a relatively new problem which we haven’t had to confront in the past.

“The Alt-Lite are not mere clickbait chasers. That’s a category error; the Alt-Lite isn’t just the PJWs, Mike Cernovichs, and MILOs, it’s the entire pool of their conservative and libertarian supporters who are inclined to sympathize to some extent with the Alt-Right.”

I agree.

Maybe I wasn’t as clear about this as I have been in previous posts about the subject. The Alt-Lite is a two-tier phenomenon. At the top, you have the Alt-Lite clickbait marketers who I have come to refer to as “the brands.” The brands are basically entrepreneuers who are pushing racial content on social media – discourse poisoning, without fully realizing what they are doing – in order to generate engagement and impressions which generate revenue and income for them. At the bottom, you have this vast pool of ordinary conservatives and libertarians who are responding to it and developing a budding sense of racial consciousness. This is why, for example, you can see moderates like Baked Alaska, Microchip and Jared Wyand who have moved beyond the Alt-Lite.

“The Alt-Lite consists of those who agree with some of the 16 Points, but not enough to be genuinely characterized as Alt Right. There is no hard line, the distinction is a gradient. And it’s foolish to dismiss smart, popular, effective individuals such as PJW, Mike, and Milo as clickbait chasers anyhow, even if one disagrees with them.”

We agree that the bulk of the Alt-Lite consists of ordinary conservatives and libertarians with an incoherent worldview. I’m not castigating the moderates who I distinguish from the brands. Those people are valuable as potential recruits and most of them are likely just at the beginning of their journey. Most of us were moderates in the earliest phases of our development and that shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing.

“Some Alt-Lite leaders are civic nationalists. Others are genuine nationalists. The same is true of those who follow them, but the contradiction Wallace sees is the result of everyone in the Alt-Lite being in transition from civic nationalism to nationalism as a result of current events.”

I object to defining the Alt-Lite brands as “civic nationalists” because they aren’t really serious about their professed civic nationalism. Every single day they are out there treading into forbidden territory – racial, ethnic, cultural, and religious divisions – our neighborhood of the internet. Mainstream conservatives are civic nationalists, but they are more serious about it than the Alt-Lite brands who want to be edgy.

“The Alt-West is absolutely NOT civic nationalist; I don’t know if anyone has done more to tear down the precepts of civic nationalism in the last 18 months than the brilliant and unquestionably handsome authors of Cuckservative. This ongoing transition is why the growth of the Alt-Right is inevitable, and the fact that the Alt-West welcomes newcomers while the Alt-White openly scorns them is another reason why the latter is likely to fade into irrelevance over time.”

Here’s why I disagree:

1.) First, the Alt-White has no objection to welcoming newcomers. See, for example, Baked Alaska, Jared Wyand and Microchip who have recently moved beyond the Alt-Lite.

2.) Second, MILO is scorned because he has nothing to do with our community. Why would a Jewish homosexual who boasts about having sex with black men be welcomed in our community? Why would we want to be associated with a crossdresser who bathes in blood, a narcissist who cultivates a twink entourage, someone who brags on video about hanging out with Hollywood pedophiles at sex parties with young boys?

There’s a difference between welcoming newcomers and not pushing away moderates, which we all agree we should do, and not having any standards at all. As David Duke said, if a Jewish homosexual with black boyfriends is a White Nationalist, then White Nationalism ain’t what it used to be!

3.) Third, I’ve always liked the fact that the Alt-West is Christian, but Vox recently said, “And to make it clear, I’d much rather stand with Milo than with ANY of you self-professed Christians attacking him. I trust Milo not to stab me in the back. He has proven himself to me. You, I don’t trust at all.” It sounds to me like the Alt-West is compromising its values on the MILO Question, not the Alt-White.

“(It’s also rather funny to see the Alt-White ready to go to war with all and sundry to protect “their” brand while also denouncing an Alt-Liter who is considerably better at marketing for talking about himself as a brand. Of course, if marketing acument, or consistency, or even coherency, was in their wheelhouse, they wouldn’t call themselves white nationalist neo-Nazis in the first place.)”

The Alt-White is a cause, not a “brand.” If Cernovich is a brand, what is the product he is selling? I’m not selling anyone a product.

We’ve never thought of ourselves as a “brand.” It’s not about us. It is about the world we are leaving behind for our descendants. It is about whether the White, Western world will survive the 21st century. I’m not in the habit of comparing myself to a brand like McDonald’s because I am not financially motivated. I don’t think of my readers as customers. I do what I think is right and say what I believe is true.

“Nobody of whom I am aware conflates Western civilization with liberalism or even Western democracy. That’s not possible, as Western civilization obviously predates both. And populism is synonymous with the Trump campaign; Trump is himself a civic nationalist. And in answer to his questions”

Specifically, I was referring to the Gavin McInnes video in the previous article. Also, what’s the difference between civic nationalist and conservative? Mainstream conservatives like Ben Shapiro are civic nationalists. They don’t think the United States has any racial, cultural, ethnic or religious foundation. Instead, they believe anyone who holds US citizenship is just as much an “American” as anyone else.

“Mike is both popular and a populist. He has offered $10k to debate others on several occasions to demonstrate his seriousness, and the fact that the Alt-White can’t, or won’t, come up with such a relatively small sum to debate him about whatever it is they want to debate him about simply shows either a) how small their numbers are, or, b) that the challenge is not a serious one.”

I wouldn’t use the word “populist” to describe Mike Cernovich.

He has nothing in common with Tom Watson, George Wallace, Huey Long or any populist who comes to mind. This is a guy who makes videos about drinking breast milk and how shampoo is a scam. He talks about how his readers are “too poor for his time” and how “the truth is my brand.” He writes about using steroids and his hair and how men should use sunscreen to protect their skin. He is a Southern California lifestyle blogger.

Mike Cernovich doesn’t write or speak like any populist I have ever seen. The contempt he shows for his own audience – who he boasted on Periscope about throwing under the bus in order to better reposition himself – belies the notion that he is a populist. He’s a mountebank, not a populist.

I’m not Alt-Lite. And I’m not a populist. I am, and have always been, an elitist. That’s natural, of course, since I am, statistically speaking, more intelligent than something like 7.49 billion of the people on the planet. What sort of populist lives by the mantra MPAI? As for purging gammas, I was only referring to my blog; I don’t question the right of gammas to live as self-deluded secret kings in the privacy of their own homes, I just don’t want to listen to them.

Granted, Vox Day is one of the smartest people on the planet. Is it fair to say that the Alt-West isn’t welcoming of the newcomers it classifies as gammas? That’s the impression I am getting here. He’s quite dismissive of them!

“I didn’t care about prom and I still don’t care about balls, so I can’t even begin to address this statement.”

I was never going to the Fag Prom either.

Let’s be clear: #Deploraball is a Fag Prom hosted by “Gays for Trump,” a follow up to MILO’s twink themed RNC party, and it is for people who think mainstream conservatism should be more accepting of homosexuals.

“One should never describe things as one wishes them to be, but rather, as they are. To do otherwise is magical thinking, which tends to achieve results akin to those achieved by the famous cargo cults of yore.”

I agree.

That’s what I am trying to do here. I’m trying to explain the behavior of the Alt-Lite brands. My theory is that they are economically motivated. They’re in the viral clickbait business. Everything I saw from them during the Chicago and Fort Lauderdale incidents justifies my suspicions because the theory predicts their behavior.

See also PJW identifying with the Alt-Right only to spin on a dime and use Rick Wilson’s line of attack against Richard Spencer about the Alt-Right being Neo-Nazi losers who masturbate in their parent’s basement. Does that sound like something someone with strong beliefs would say? He’s attacking Rick Wilson one minute, echoing him the next.

The Alt-Lite is not going away, as it, too, is growing, as whites in the mainstream continue to be driven rightward by the identity politics of the non-whites to their Left. This is all a good thing, and if the Alt-White were smart, it would be attempting to appeal to the Alt-West and the Alt-Lite alike, not alternating between denying their existence and attacking them.

1.) First, I haven’t attacked the Alt-West. I’m only puzzled by the Alt-West’s embrace of MILO over other Christians which seems counterintuitive. It seems strange to me that the Alt-West would condemn the Podestas, but celebrate an individual who bathes in blood and boasts about having interracial sex with black men and who hosts twink photoshoots and who defends pedophilia and even participated in it as an adolescent.

2.) Second, there is just something that rubs me the wrong way about arrogant “brands” who are profiting off the misery of my people. If they want to join mainstream conservatism, that’s their choice, but we need to be clear about it.

“And if Hunter wants to debate any of this, I’ll be happy to debate him on Brainstorm for free, as long as he understands that my willingness to do so does not make me a populist.

I’m not sure I would fare well in a debate with one of the smartest people in the world, but perhaps Vox could provide us with an update on how Edgar Maddison Welch is still acting in jail? I haven’t heard anything new on that front.

Note: BTW, I agree with Vox Day on the question of segregation, but I think that kind of rhetoric might make Cernovich or MILO uncomfortable. I also have Vox Day’s book Cuckservative.

About Hunter Wallace 12388 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent


  1. Hunter, I just read your first article, Vox’s response, and now this. I’ve got to say, you are destroying Vox. We will see how he responds to this.

    Vox Day’s response to you was complete sophistry. Basically, the post was just Vox juggling around definitions of ‘alt-right’, ‘alt-west’, ‘alt-lite’ to justify the behavior of Cernovich and MILO.

    The ‘alt-lite’ and the ‘alt-west’ are both terms for Civic Nationalism, no matter what Vox tries to say. These terms have always been conflated. On the other hand, the ‘alt-right’ and the ‘alt-white’ are both terms for Racial Nationalism, no matter what Vox says.

    Vox’s idea for tricking his readers was conflating the ‘alt-west’ with the ‘alt-right’ and amazingly saying that both these terms mean ‘white nationalism’ more or less. If you go to Vox’s comments section, he equates the ‘alt-white’ with a group that wants to conquer other countries and establish a global white empire, an idea that literally no one I know has proposed and a conflation that is completely disingenuous.

    Even by Vox’s definition, MILO and Cernovich do not fit in as ‘alt-west’. When has MILO or Cernovich ever said anything about ethnostates, or 90%+ white populations? Vox never answered your question: What are the real ideologies of people like MILO and Cernovich? He can’t answer your question though, because he knows damn well that you are right; MILO and Cernovich are just ‘brands’, they have no ideology.

    Essentially, Vox is just trying to defend his credentials as an ‘alt-west’ white nationalist, while associating MILO and Cernovich with him to defend their reputation. Complete word games.

    You should really debate Vox. He is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

    • Alt-Right core = the 14 words
      Alt-Lite pool = Alt-Right hunting grounds
      Alt-Lite leeches = “the brands” that feed on Alt-Right traffic

    • He’s probably thinking of Richard Spencer musing of a future white ethno-empire. It’s certainly absurd to assume that Spencer’s political fantasies (which he acknowledges as such) are some sort of official alt-right platform.

      • you mean to tell us that taking ONE camp’s views and applying it to an ENTIRE movement is a logical fallacy?

        but this guy is one of the smartest people on the planet… so… does that mean he’s dishonestly applying logic against those of us fighting for the White race?

        hrmphh, some ally

      • Probably.

        Spencer and Radix have written several articles about that which come to mind. I’ve also seen the Septentrion concept floated at Counter-Currents which is essentially the same thing.

    • What makes Vox somewhat predictable, as well as at times annoying, is his idea that his IQ somehow makes him perceive the world in a way us midwits can’t even comprehend. I wouldn’t mind that if it were true, but no one knows if it is true, as he’s not us and we’re not him.

      The thing is, even if his intellect does give him a special perspective on things, we are not discussing deep philosophical questions at this point. We are asking if it is legitimate to attach oneself to a movement in order to sell literal dickjuice, and if it is right to have certain standards. I think we’re qualified to comment on that.

      • Intellectuals generally aren’t blessed with good earthy common sense. They are quite silly, usually. Just look at the idiots and crackpots universities produce.

      • Read sometime Einstein’s book “Ideas and Opinions” to understand one can have high IQ and low commonsense.

    • Vox Day lies: “The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure.”

      Since he identifies his invented “Alt-White” faction with pro-whites, this is a lie.

    • Vox is just a race-mixed religious fanatic. That colors everything he writes. He hates White infidels who ask how we know Jesus walked on water, and feels closer to non-White Bible believers. He hates White Nationalism because he isn’t White. Fun fact: Without White Nationalism none of us would be here. I mean on this site and other “alt-Right” sites, or on Twitter talking about mass immigration, racial issues and Jewish media domination. It was White Nationalism that kept the truth alive when no one else did, and tirelessly pushed to get the information out there. WN did this before it was called WN – even back in the 1990s and 1980s. Without William Pierce almost no one who is now alt-Right would know about these issues.

      But respect for those who came before you is something only people with integrity have. So that leaves out a race-mixed religious fanatic like Vox. After all he so INTELLIGENT! He says so himself over and over again so it must be true, right? Btw I’ve been a Mensa member too, big effing deal. I’d much rather be alt-Right.

  2. What has intelligence got to do with honesty? A cursory analysis of Voxday’s views on Milo or Cerno are enough to prove that he is incapable of honesty on Milo or Cerno. A truly fearless honest person would concede it is nearly impossible to be impartial about oneself, one’s family and one’s friends.

        • His intellectual reputation would be better off if he just admitted it. This sophistry just makes him look awful.

          • He’s too visibly dishonest on his blog on many topics to have much of an intellectual reputation, at least for our side which cares about that sort of thing, the left having divested themselves of truth and all that, but he’s not a will to power type like them.

      • Or just so invested in his relationship with Cernovich that he can’t back out now. He’s now publishing his books and as he’s told us at length, he’s the sort of guy for whom Cernovich’s advice is useful, at least as he sees it.

        It doesn’t look like a wise decision at this point.

      • Reminds of the SILLY left who are always telling us mere peasants how intelligent and sophisticated they are. He’s an insecure man.

        • He has a lot to be insecure about:

          His family lied to him about their races, he and siblings figured this out from inconsistencies in official documents, and recently confirmed that by genetic testing. He’s now seriously identifying as a feather Indian, he can’t be part of what he labels as the Alt-White, and said in response to smallpox killing most of them but white science later saving billions:

          That’s irrelevant. Whites still killed them and stole their land. That crime can never be erased. Unless it is admitted, repented, and forgiven, Americans will not believe they have the moral high ground to defend the land they stole from the Indians.

          Just read the long list of signed treaties that were broken. There is no hiding from it.

          Indians aren’t bitter about this, for the most part, but they would like white people to stop lying about it and trying to rationalize it.

          His father is at least as intelligent as he is, but blew up his family in a real stupid tax evasion scheme, jumping bail, and threatening the judge. It’s got to be hard going through life without being able to respect your father, which started long before his father self-destructed.

          He mostly wasted his college years at Bucknell, says one of his biggest mistakes was not dropping out of college.

          He is living in a world made of science and engineering, but has no interest or aptitude for them, I don’t know which or if both, if he’s fundamentally dishonest he can’t be good at them, and he doesn’t like the people who are. Who he must work with, and his politics and attitude burned a lot of bridges there.

          He gave up on America and bugged out to Italy to raise his family. Which was not a bad decision for himself and his family, but he’s no longer really in the loop on what’s happening over here, but still has a lot to say about it. He also has to be very careful about what he says due to the post-WWII anti-fascist laws.

          He’s a serious non-denominational Christian in a world where too much of those who call themselves Christian are hopeless.

          • All true. I still like the guy and agree with him about 95%. Been reading him since at least 2000 or so.

            I wonder if the new censorship laws being introduced in Italy will affect his work? We’ll see.

          • I held him in high regard, and very much wanted him as an ally. He could have led a lethal weapons engineering team for Alt-Right. He could have passed out armaments to the troll armies like candy. Imagine the devastation. When he turned against Alt-Right by trying to purge its White Nationalist core, my heart sank into my stomach, tbh.

            Even to this day it’s my wish that he come to his senses, focus his energies on the enemy rather than the internal management of our forces, and just fight. We’re just fine without him, but those weapons sure would have been fun!


          • Ultimately its not in his ethnic interest to support White liberation from the left and their pet groups, because White liberation would mean liberation from him.

          • Its been proven that Europeans were the first to enter the Americas through ice bridges from Europe and so it was Whites who were exterminated by waves of “Native” Siberians who came several thousand years later. So where are our reparations from the “Native” Siberians?

            “Native” Siberians were killing and taking land from each other long before White men returned to our Americas. So where are the “Native” Siberians reparations to other “Native” Siberians?

            Whites are the ONLY racial group in history that has granted Reservations to those they conquered, so they could continue as identifiable groups. All other racial groups including “Native” Siberians, exterminated all those they conquered.

            I think Vox and his anti-White Alt-West pals should go to Brazil and live their freaky mix blended Western lifestyles there, because it is already how they want the future to be. Why do these people always want to build freaky mixed race futures ONLY where Whites are?

  3. I could never in clear conscience follow someone who pushes support of individuals that flagrantly cultivate twink entourages. That is way beyond my disgust threshold.

    • Vox is cashing in on an admitted sodomite and an apologist for pedophillia. And apparently he has no shame. He actually doubles down on it.

      No thanks.

        • No, he ties himself in with prominent figures to promote himself.

          Understand, most of us have jobs in real life. This is his job. To ally himself with radical people to promote his brand. Book sales, his bread and butter.

          Vox is an infomercial.

  4. “Granted, Vox Day is one of the smartest people on the planet. Is it fair to say that the Alt-West isn’t welcoming of the newcomers it classifies as gammas? That’s the impression I am getting here. He’s quite dismissive of them!”

    This is a problem because Vox Day will often close off a debate he’s losing by dismissing his opponent as a gamma. Read enough of his postings and you’ll realize he’s fundamentally dishonest when attacking others, and I’m not sure how far that dishonestly goes beyond his attacks.

      • Here’s what you need to read, interesting and not very long:

        He’s extended the alpha-beta concept, in part to explain how he’s not a beta and also not an alpha. In one sentence, a Clint Eastwood in many of his old movies, instead of a John Wayne.

        In part to explain some of the people who started attacking him out of the blue like John Scalzi and his editor, they are gammas.

      • He is like a Jew. He projects his mindset on others.

        What is amusing is the comment section there, worship of Vox. He is clearly just marketing his brand and creating a consumer base. His followers are truly pathetic.

        Give the man credit though, he is a grade A subversive. His followers are people that would join a cult.

        At the end of the day, Vox promotes filth.

    • game designers gonna game design

      1 design label
      2 design rules of label to benefit agenda
      3 as sole arbiter interpret application of rules to favor agenda (apply retroactively when needed)

      • You may be right. I violently recoiled from gaming culture long ago due to my experience with such a dishonest game master, haven’t paid any attention to it since then, despite it now being bigger than Hollywood.

  5. I sense that Vox’s views and writings are entirely genuine, but he’s also in the business of editing and promoting his publishing house, which makes him naturally sympathetic to people like Milo and Cernovich who have huge online followings- he wants to directly tap into their followers, or at the very least use their techniques to build a brand.

    Personally, I think Mike and Milo do something useful in widening the Overton window and drawing fire away from the real Alt-Right. It’s not good strategy to attack them.

    • Nice attempted reframe, bruh.


      -Cuckovitch attacked Alt-Right by calling Spencer a Fed on national radio
      -Mitchell last week cucked so hard against Alt-Right that he coughed up internal organs
      -just this week PJW, again on national radio, attacked Alt-Right as being less than genuine, not to mention his twitter insults

      • I care about actions, not words. They can attack us verbally all they want, but de facto they are opening up young, disgruntled minds for further conversion by us. Pointing out their inconsistencies and intellectual dishonesty is productive; shrieking cuck at them won’t win their base over.

        • like hell it won’t

          go listen to Youcis’s story – it is THE DOMINANT trajectory of millennials – the kids INSTINCIVELY know they’re getting partial truth from the alt lite leeches… and then they dig some more and find us – home – where they always belonged in the first place

          anyone arguing against that natural progression is trying to fence Whites into a word matrix rather than to liberate their biology … … … we have a word for those people

          your argument is wholly unpersuasive

  6. Two points related to the Christianity issue:
    1) Vox frequently alludes to the concept that a sizable fraction of modern Christianity is not really Christian.
    2) Vox does not work together only with people of the same religious beliefs, and will not work together with anybody of the same religious beliefs who he considers to be bad allies. For instance, Christians who will turn tail and stab him in the back under pressure, or who will disavow him for working together with people they don’t like, or are just cowards, will not be considered for practical reasons.
    As he said in SJWs Always Lie about his public alliance with Roosh, “We may not agree on many things, but I’d rather have Roosh, an experience-hardened veteran of many a public relations battle, at my back than a company of evangelical Christians who will burst into tears and flee as soon as the first barrage of ‘racist sexist homophobia’ begins to land.”

    • hey buddy,
      this is about:

      A) the survival of the White race

      NOT about:

      B) who vox thinks is or isn’t a Christian
      B) who vox will or will not work with
      B) who vox considers to be good or bad allies
      B) who will or will not stab vox in the back
      B) who will or will not disavow vox
      B) who vox would or would not rather have at his back


      do you understand the difference between A and B?
      do you understand the difference between the White race and vox?
      do you understand how a whole bunch of us care about one of those things but not the other?

      • this entire blog post was about vox day
        one of the points raised therein was relevant to all of B

      • That’s all fair enough, but the particular way in which many of the details in (B) are worked out will, in time, determine the success or failure of (A). Of course, for vox in (B) you have to substitute any generic pro-white activist; whether or not it’s vox, the same issues arise and still have to be dealt with. I know it would be much simpler if white survival could be assured merely through the application of strict logic, but that’s not the world we inhabit.

        My own views on vox are related to the suitability of the political program he promotes to white interests. My first question was, if his views are followed through to their logical conclusion, would they result in white survival (in anything like “serious” numbers and on a substantial proportion of formerly wholly white territory)? My conclusion was that, no, his program in itself would be insufficient to that end; it could only serve to set the stage for something which more directly addresses the issue of white survival.

  7. Occidental Dissent is Southern Nationalist. Its concern is not white civilization, of which the South is not a part.

    • I don’t see any contradiction between Southern Nationalism and taking a broader view that we want the Occident as a whole to survive the 21st century. We’re not anti-German, anti-Polish, anti-Irish, etc. Naturally, we are just more invested in our own people.

      • Since I don’t really follow any of this closely, I don’t know whether RAMZPAUL, Jared Taylor, and Richard Spencer are Southern Nationalists.

        • I’m definitely pro-White.

          As for race-based nations, I would say that race is important, but so are other things like culture and ethnicity. Ideally, the whole Occident would be preserved in the 21st century in the form of the various ethnostates. The survival of my own people is what is most important to me, but I want to see the Occident as a whole survive too.

          • If you are going to live with other races in the same country, forced integration must be ended. Whites must be free to segregate if they choose. The South used to have this.

          • I would describe you as a nationalist rather than a racialist. A racialist, as I define it, doesn’t care about ethnicity and puts culture a distant second to racial belonging*. As a racialist, I feel compelled to embrace anyone exhibiting Milo-like qualities as long as he racially fits the bill. It doesn’t mean I would enjoy his company, but if the survival of my kind depended on tolerating his ilk I would happily tolerate away, not bitch and moan about “yankees.”

            *Obviously culture matters to human wellbeing. No man can live on bread alone, and so no one can be purely a racialist and care nothing about culture,

      • You want a “separate peace.” I think it’s safe to consider you uninterested in the fate of the rest of the white world so long as you can have your southern paradise.

      • The difference between Alt-Right and White Nationalist is strictly semantical, because White Nationalist was a fairly broad label that could never be properly defined even by the people who’ve called themselves White Nationalists for decades. I’ve never thought of the Alt-Right as anything but a Racialist term.

        This is a big part of the problem within the pro-White sphere. People need to quit with the cute little labels and just spit out a simple foundational principle. Too many moving parts make for a machine that’s susceptible to breaking down with the smallest little part malfunctioning.

        Fuck this shit! I’m a Racist. Y’all can kiss my ass if you don’t like it.

        • “Alt-Right as anything but a Racialist term.”

          Pro Whites calling themselves Alt-Right as a big tent tactic, is what got them into this current shambles. All these anti-Whites showed up and attached themselves to the movement, thinking it was abstract hooey, thinking they could take it over.

          “Fuck this shit! I’m a Racist. Y’all can kiss my ass if you don’t like it.”

          While I like the rebel sentiment, I never accept bogus terms our racial enemies invented, to suppress the survival instincts of Whites. I’m not going to grant them any sense of moral superiority while they do it. They aren’t anti-racist, they are anti-White. Yeehaw!

          • The only thing that’s bogus is grown men and women allowing a word to force them to back down or force them to throw out quick disavowals when that word is thrown their way. You give that word power every single time you run from it. You give the idea of anti-racism credence when you deny what and who you really are. A Race-ist is no more a bogus term than just about anything else you ad ist to.

            a : one that performs a (specified) action : one that makes or produces a (specified) thing
            b : one that plays a (specified) musical instrument
            c : one that operates a (specified) mechanical instrument or contrivance
            : one that specializes in a (specified) art or science or skill
            : one that adheres to or advocates a (specified) doctrine or system or code of behavior or that of a (specified) individual

            If my worldview is deeply intertwined with Race and I use Race as the foundation and premise of an ideal society, then what am I?

          • Old KGB saying.”Terminology determines ideology”.

            This word did not exist before 1930. Check it on Google ngram viewer. It was made by the left, to use against Whites. Don’t you feel silly attaching yourself to imaginary words?

   dot com/ngrams/graph?content=racist&year_start=1500&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&search_plus_one=form&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cracist%3B%2Cc0

            We ain’t running from it, we undermine and throw it back at them every time they try to use it.

            “In yer opinion I’m a racist. Yer just saying that because I’m White. Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White”

            Those who are Politically Correct are just siding with the bullies.

            Again, a made up word that would not exist without the left’s nutty neuroses and phobias. They invent new taboos and phobias every year. You want to take those seriously as well?

          • “In yer opinion I’m a racist. Yer just saying that because I’m White. Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White”

      • Here is where I think he defines the Alt-White:

        In short:

        Nevertheless, it is clear that there is an intrinsic tension within the Alt-Right, which is not necessarily a bad thing. On the one side is the Alt-White, which is pure white nationalist and predominantly pagan or atheist. This could be thought of as the NPI or Spencerian Alt-Right. On the other is the Alt-West, which is omni-nationalist and pro-Christian. I suspect Jared Taylor and RamZPaul are more of this persuasion, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it is the branch in which I would place myself. All of the 16 Points of the Alt-Right with which even Richard Spencer himself only has a few quibbles, can reasonably be considered an Alt-West perspective.

        The 16 points he referrs to is his definition of the Alt-Right:

        • *his* 16 points represent NOTHING but what he and his constituents desire for Alt-Right. nothing wrong with that, but that’s all they are

          it’s important to note that they are objectively internally illogical. his “defense” to the many people, including myself, who have verified that they are objectively internally illogical? we’re too stupid to understand them, because “muh iq”. two points:
          1- that’s false. they are objectively internally illogical
          2- if they really are that difficult to understand by anyone except the top iq percentiles of the population, then what good are they?

          compare that to Trump: Make America Great Again

          or the Alt-Right: 14 words

          no priests necessary, all iq’s welcome

          i guess after vox purges the White Nationalists from Alt-Right and takes over as the heralded thought leader, us little people will need to submit to a priest class who will interpret for us vox’s labels, definitions, application of the law, and his 16 dogfood points.

          uh, no thanks

          you use your energy and resources to praise twink wranglers, we’ll focus on saving the White race.

    • it’s his game-designing attempt to weaken the White Nationalist movement by balkanizing it into subdivisions, the EXACT OPPOSITE of what White Nationalists are working hard for, which is to UNIFY ALL WHITES under the banner of the 14 words, regardless of whichever sub-banners they’re fighting for, respectively

      A he wants to be a thought leader in Alt-Right
      B his constituents don’t like White Nationalism or strains thereof
      A+B = redefine Alt-Right in a way that his constituents will accept

      1 split Alt-Right into two new labels ‘alt white’ and ‘alt west’
      2 use his cabal of Alt-Lite leeches with huge distribution networks to rebrand the real Alt-Right (14 words) as ‘alt white’, while assuming the reins of Alt-Right
      3 discard the ridiculous label ‘alt west’ which was always intended to be discarded
      * he claims that he’s not making up labels, but only “observing reality”. White Nationalists SOUNDLY REJECT reality as filtered through the perceptions of disingenuous game designers

      nobody’s telling him that he can’t have the alt west – go have it, no one cares… and that’s the problem: literally No. One. Cares. there is ZERO internet traffic for ‘alt west’, which is why he wants so badly to be included in Alt-Right. but his constituents don’t like strains of White Nationalism. because they’re crybabies

      bottom line:

      that lame term only exists in his mind and in those of his sycophantic followers

      the correct term is Alt-Right, which at its core is the 14 words, and seeks to UNIFY as many variants thereof as possible, RATHER THAN DIVIDE THEM, which is the purpose of this game-designer’s made up term

  8. Opportunists that piggyback to make some shekels. Embracing filth like Milo is very telling on Vox’s character.

  9. The photo of Vox, Thernovich, and the Alt-Cuck entourage you used at the top of the piece pretty much says it all.

    We’re going to take back the West with those people?!

    • I don’t get it, they don’t look like tough guys so they don’t deserve an opinion on racial politics? Who do you think is going to populate any putative white ethnostate? Millions upon millions of dorky or fat or ugly whites who can’t so much as throw a punch, let alone fire a gun. They’re not all gonna be Viking Aryan supermen.

  10. ‘It’s a bit ironic for Hunter Wallace to denigrate the thinking
    ability of the Alt-Lite opinion leaders considering how many obvious
    errors he commits here.”’

    Sir, when it is implied, or stated outright, that you are not sufficiently on some intellectual grounds, you know that you are to the right of the person commenting.

    Oddly, it’s a side-effeckt of holding the Left position, on any issue, that one assumes the high point of the intellectual Olympus…

  11. Why not simply “pro-White” and see if the other brands follow suit? If you won’t accept the 14 words you’re not on my team.

    • Alt Right is a valuable label. People who are waking up know they need an alternative to the lies they have been fed before they know what the correct alternative is.

      The correct alternative must oppose White Genocide and be consistent with the 14 words; I have no argument with that.

  12. LOL I don’t think Vox will debate you now Hunter. He doesn’t like being called out in an accurate manner. I think Vox’s operandi is more like a white progressive feminist. Watch what she does, not what she says.

    Alt-West certainly pretend to be allies to the Alt-right, yet when the chips fall they follow mammon.

    • I just saw it.

      He’s not even reacting to anything I said in the post above. He’s mad at commentators like Laguna Beach Fogey. I will post something new about this later tonight.

      • it’s a game designer way of “simply observing” the “reality” of a certain type of “objectively classified” loser that one’s sycophants are trained to mindlessly shriek like a mantra

        used as a means of dismissing anyone with whom said game designer prefers not to tangle because “muh iq”


        haven’t lol’ed this hard in a while

    • LOL, and of course he calls us ‘gammas’.

      Everyone Vox doesn’t like is a ‘gamma’, whatever the hell that means.

    • It’s business for Vox. He is a subversive. Promoting Jews and such for profit. Honorable men make clean money.


    What a surprise! Vox Day thinks the commenters at Occidental Dissent are ‘gammas’ and won’t ‘bother responding’ to any of our criticisms. He’d rather stand w/ his ‘reliable allies’ MILO and Cernovich, and now he’s going to ignore the ‘alt-white’ altogether.

    As his buddy Stefan Molyneux would say, ‘NOT AN ARGUMENT, Vox’!

  14. “The Alt-White is a cause, not a “brand.””

    The Alt-White is neither a cause nor a brand; it is a rhetorical trick that Vox Day is attempting, without success.

  15. Vox Day challenges Hunter Wallace to debate. Vox Day reads “Response to Vox
    Day”. Vox Day declines to debate Hunter Wallace.

  16. Isn’t Vox a prairie nigger?

    Ins the END – it’s all about identity, and identity is DNA. Literally the stuff we are made of. The literal chemicals that comprises and creates our flesh.

    Anglin is correct. The Alt Right is about WHITE People. Nazis. National – Natal – Flesh and Blood. Socialist. Our group of us. Our Tribe. Our US.

    Ramzpaul, MILO, Cernovich cannot be US. PJW looks like a Hebe – he has those khazar eyes. They are Jews. They have a vested interest in disrupting us ,We are their stated competiton FOR supremacy. Most of us don’t want to rule any-one else. We want our own turf. We want to exist. We want our own lands.

    They want us dead.

    Jews, and now every-one else, parasite off the achievements of our Race. We ARE Civilization. We are AUTHENTIC.
    They are NOT.

    They think they have enough of our stuff, and they don’t need us anymore. They are wrong; Israel cannot EXIST without the Whites of the USA. The Hebes don’t care – they think the technological miracles invented by White men can be sustained by the Darks. This is a delusion; there’s reams of proof. No matter – all they can do is their bag of Kike Trix – and nothing is working anymore.

    WTF is the “Alt West”? Wait – who cares? Alt West Alt Lite – they STILL define themselves by being against us.

    In the end, it’s all about DNA. I wish I could recall who wrote this; I need to save things that strike me- but some-one wrote “They showed the knife too soon”. That Chicago 4 was THIER Black Swan event. They can’t stop themselves.

    We need to shake them off. Leave them Purge them. The Hour Cometh…………..

  17. Hunter, there is no alt-white or alt-west. It’s all just mental gymnastics from a self-proclaimed injun who in reality is just a white guy from Minnesota who ran away to Italy.

    Don’t fall for his bullshit.

  18. It is quite obvious that Vox’s attachment to Cernovich/Milo is money related. Ever since Vox has tethered himself to those two his effectiveness has gone down hill.

  19. Based on the link to Vox Day provided here I checked out his blog last month. I read through a few posts and had no reason to ever go back.

    He seems to love perception much more then truth, which is both irrritating and presumptuous. And of little value imo.

  20. As far as debating this guy, it looks like he is clearly avoiding the jews and the fact that the rest of the people he is talking about are either employed by jews, or ARE jews. How smart can he be denying the jewish influence that propels their popularity, especially of Milo. The jew Milo gets to get rich and be the “leader” while the goy, shills get moderate fame and fortune, or the crumbs their jew producers and bosses give them. The jews want nothing more than to subvert a powerful movement that points out their blatant crimes throughout the ages that took the jews by surprise. It doesn’t matter how smart this guy claims to be, unless he is bending spoons, he can not change the omitted dastardly facts of jewish history, nor the present day irrefutable jewish control and influence in money, media, education and international affairs. Jew globalists only want civic nationalism when they want goy to kill each other in war. Other than that, it’s divide and conquer, so of course all the jews have to do to divide/subvert anything that is against jews, is to start a branch of the same thing, that is for jews with MORE money and media to make it bigger than the goy version. Milo is the Howard Stern of the Alt-kike movement, who capitalized on the shock value. Notice his scholarship scheme doesn’t grab the attention of the jew media? No, he gets him a book deal and a million dollar tour. It is jews that are working overtime to twist our movement any way they can to get it to silence the truth about jews. The truth isn’t debatable, so it doesn’t matter how smart this guy is, as he can’t refute the truth without looking like a liar and/or stupid. Since he is so sure of himself, he shouldn’t mind if we make up the debate questions.

  21. Alt Light’s only value is that it is a bridge to the Alt Right. The Alt Light has no value as an end in itself as that would just be White Genocide Light over time just as conservatism is. All white countries are under threat of mass miscegenation by non-white hordes.

    No, contrary to what milquetoast Spencer says, whites don’t have to be butchered in the streets for it to be genocide. There is such a thing as genetic integrity. Wildlife conservationists see it as a threat to animal species. It’s also a threat to white racial integrity. Do not accept the Latin American definition of white. White is not a relative shade of skin tone.

  22. Why the hell is Vox allowed to have a platform on after he openly trashes the core of the AltRight?

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