A Google search for “White Nationalism” this morning drew my attention to this post by Conservative Swede. It leads to a nexus of discussion at Gates of Vienna and View From the Right. The debate revolves around the role of Christian ethics in Western dénouement and whether or not a return to Germanic paganism is a viable alternative. Naturally, the spectre of Nazism was invoked at all three sites.
My own reading of Hitler left me with the impression that he didn’t care much for Himmler’s esoteric paganism. I remember him explicitly saying in the Table Talk that the New Germany couldn’t be built on such a shoddy foundation. He preferred to stay aloof from religious differences within the NSDAP, but was vehemently critical of Christianity in private. Hitler had a religious belief in his own destiny and dismissed Soviet atheism. He was something of a deist. We agree on this point.
I can’t agree with Conservative Swede’s assessment that Hitler sought to conquer the world. The best treatment of the subject I have seen would be Norman Rich’s Hitler’s War Aims: The Establishment of the New Order. It is quite clear that his real goal was the establishment of a New Order in Northern Europe (racialist and autarkic) centered on Greater Germany. Conflict with the Western Allies brought the German military into theatres (Western Europe, Southern Europe, North Africa) which had previously been of little interest.
Hitler sought to preserve the British Empire, neutralize France in Europe, isolate America in the Western Hemisphere, and conquer the Soviet Union. In his worldview, Spain, Japan, Italy, Finland were useful allies, not targets for conquest. A much more persuasive case can be made that the United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union sought world domination. Britain already had a world empire. The U.S. and USSR both aspired for global hegemony during the Cold War. In contrast, it is difficult to imagine even the triumphant Third Reich ever sending troops as far as Vietnam, unlike the defeated post-war French Republic.
Christianity and its relationship to White racial decline is an incredibly complex subject. In some cases, Christianity was wedded to a fierce racial nationalism, as in early New England, the Jim Crow South, NS Germany, the Belgian Congo or apartheid South Africa. An argument can be made for adding Mormon Utah to this short list. Generally though, Christianity and White racial consciousness haven’t correlated. Most European countries never developed an American-style obsession with “whiteness.” The closest European analogues to the U.S. were Britain and Spain.
In the U.S., the mainline Protestant clergy softened on race in the early twentieth century, mostly due to its missionary efforts in Asia and Africa, ecumenical project, and its domestic crusade to convert Catholic and Jewish immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe. The Quakers and Unitarians were fervent egalitarians. The universalism inherent in Christianity played a role in changing racial attitudes, but at least here it wasn’t the primary driver of the transformation. No one can honestly blame the Southern Baptist Convention for the downfall of the Jim Crow South.
The suicidal version of liberalism (political correctness + white guilt + multiculturalism) that has infected Western Europe is a separate issue from its lack of racial consciousness. In the U.S., the triumph of anti-racism occurred in the Kennedy/Johnson years. For America, it was a heady time of utopian cultural optimism and economic prosperity. It was widely believed at the time that America could do anything. A war was famously declared on poverty. Another soon followed on drugs. This was an era when welfare, housing projects, and affirmative action were still plausible solutions to the negro problem.
Integration must be seen in the same context. If Americans could beat the Depression, win the Second World War, put a man on the moon, then why couldn’t America elevate the negro to racial equality?
The critical point is that suicidal liberalism only came later. It followed in the wake of the Civil Rights Movement from the late 1960s through the 1980s. In other words, it was an effect of racial decline, not the cause, at least in the United States. Jews and the New Left is a topic that has been extensively covered by other writers. I won’t revist their conclusions here.
As to Sweden’s racial decline, I know little about the subject, but I would expect that indigenous factors like Christianity must have loomed larger there. Even within the United States, different regions have different racial histories, and it is impossible to nail down a Single Cause for America, whatever some might think. What holds for the the U.S. isn’t necessarily true of Sweden and vice versa. A symposium of writers from different countries would immeasurably contribute to our understanding of the forces at work in the decline of the West.
Can Auster write a post on European history without conjuring up the ghost of the Third Reich, his group’s pet demonology? There’s a lot to be said for not adopting the demonology of one’s enemy. Unfortunately, the incredible Jewish success in the West (particularly their omnipresence in popular culture) has also entailed the colonization of our psychic universe by Jewish memes.
[By the way, it’s Mormon and not Morman.]
”In some cases, Christianity was wedded to a fierce racial nationalism, as in […] the Jim Crow South” ( — from the log entry)
And the antebellum South.
For two centuries.
While I don’t think NS Germany would have conquered the world by war, it would have been the dominant power in the world, as America is now. They would have used similar political leverage and force by other means, as America does today.
We are now witnessing the fruits of Judeo-christianity!
Next to the Jews themselves, I rank Judeo-christianty as the main causes for our Decline.
The Rev. Billy Graham stated that Whites need to take non-Whites “into our marriages”
Rev. Martin Luther King, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton are all considered model Christians!!!!
“Christian Theology is the Grandmother of Bolshevism” – Spengler.
I haven’t gone over to Gates of Vienna to read the comments there because that’s strictly a non-racial blog and Conservative Swede strictly a non-racial commentator (good name he chose for himself — conservative he certainly is, just like President Bush, Dick Cheney, Mary Matalin, Sean Hannity, and Newt Gingrich). What Jobling is to the Jewish issue, Conservative Swede is (and I believe Gates of Vienna too though I very seldom go there) to the race issue: for them there is no race issue. And if you try to bring it up you’ll be viciously attacked. Last time Constipated Screed was on my own radar screen was a year or two ago when he lambasted MajorityRights.com for its concerns in regard to race. Unless he’s done a one-eighty I see this guy as completely useless, a total zero. As Guessedworker just admonished someone today over at MR.com, “Islamicization is NOT the main issue.” It is for Conservative Swede.
You’ve gotta be joking. He said that??
Sick son-of-a-bitch. Bastard. Glad he’s kicked the bucket. (He has, hasn’t he?)
“You’ve gotta be joking. He said that??”
According to American Renaissance he did, here is the link below:
http://www.amren.com/ar/1997/09/
Judeo-christianity is an inveterate foe of White Nationalism.
The only types of Christian denominations I can think of that come anywhere close to White Nationalism are the Fundamentalist Mormons (not the ‘normal Mormons’, they allow asians into their flock) and Christian Identity types.
Where are all these Churches opposing what is happening?!?!?! WHERE?
Harsh_Henry14W: “Next to the Jews themselves, I rank Judeo-christianty as the main causes for our Decline.”
What’s Judeo about Christianity?
Fred Scrooby about Neo-Constipated Screed: “conservative he certainly is”
You mean neo-conservative. Neo-conservatives are Jewish immigrationnists in disguise, and the Gates-of-Vienna crowd looks to me like Neo-cons in very light disguise, with a big Israeli flag on their homepage for those who don’t get it. What I find most disgusting is their support of Danish involvment in the Afghanistan war, with the help of a few Danish neocons.
“What Jobling is to the Jewish issue, Conservative Swede is to the race issue: for them there is no race issue. And if you try to bring it up you’ll be viciously attacked.”
I disagree. They are the same as Jobling. Last time I checked, they seemed to agree there was a race problem, but discussion of the Jewish problem was not allowed.
I don’t see how there can be any cure for the Western cultural malaise without Christianity. Apparently, Hitler knew enough not to embrace, or at least stump for NS esoteric neopaganism. Most Germans went to church during the war didn’t they? There were Nazi chaplains on the battlefield, not rune wizards, right? There was a healthy Orthodox Christian resistance to Judeo-Bolshevism in Romania with the Iron Guard (Legion of the Archangel Michael). Certainly, there is must be a way to undo the damage of Protestant suicidal liberalism by re-examining and rectifying the theology without throwing the baby (Christianity) out with the bath water. Check out rabbi Jackie Mason lecturing on affirmative action for whites here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6gj4UHq4nY
Who is going to tell him he’s not white? If he can do it we should be able to do it better.
I would strongly urge caution on taking Hitler’s Table Talk seriously. It has been mixed confirmed and denied as being authentic. I would say Hitler’s Second Book (mein kampf’s sequel) would be more in line to anything a postwar collaborator said.
The relationship between white racial decline and Christianity seems complex only in the abstract. In the real world, organized Christianity has swallowed liberal multicultural claptrap hook, line and sinker. It has been a major force in America’s decline. Find a church that opposes affirmative action or mass immigration. Only black churches are openly racial. White churches are bastions of guilt, diversity and political correctness.
I wouldn’t be too quick to label Europeans like Swede nonracial. Their opponents certainly don’t see them that way (and I doubt they see themselves that way either). It seems to me they are waging pretty much the same fight on a different front. The Jewish and black issues aren’t the same there as here. The rise of these groups, sparked by an invasion of nonwhites, is definitely racially grounded, which is why they are so vehemently hated by liberals and nonwhites.
Sweden’s racial problems are of the same origin as in the U.S. The perpetrators are the same jews, the vassals are the same ‘White’ marxist/extreme-left wackos, the human wave is the same (dark skinned mystery meat).
The greatest tragedy that ever befell our people, as a collective, was when the naive and thoroughly jew-infiltrated ‘Allies’ stabbed the Reich in the back. Everything has been a steady downward spiral ever since the red flag flew over Berlin, with the sickle and the hammer. However, the racial cleansing initiated by Hitler did pay SOME dividends; all the ‘honorable Allies’ are totally broke, money wise, while Germany is going strong with a good 300 billion in the bank. Now all we need is a solid racial revival in Germany…
” However, the racial cleansing initiated by Hitler did pay SOME dividends; all the ‘honorable Allies’ are totally broke, money wise, while Germany is going strong with a good 300 billion in the bank.”
If memory serves Professor Revilo P. Oliver stated that Hitler had bought Europe about 30-40 years time!
When one considers the events of late 1960s (the rise of the ‘sixty-eighters’ in Europe) one can see that Oliver seemed to have a good point.