Searching the news, I discovered that the National Socialist Movement is on the move again. This time four NSM members protested an “anti-white supremacy workshop” in Minneapolis. The Neo-Nazis squared off against two hundred counter protesters who pelted them with tomatoes. After thirty minutes of abuse, the NSM called it a day and retreated to the internet to celebrate. Photos of the Belleville Protest are now up on the NSM website.
Saturday, I had a few drinks with some Occidental Dissent readers and the NSM became a topic of conversation. The general sentiment (with which I agree) was look at these guys, what are they doing, they are repulsive to middle class White Americans, their activism perpetuates liberal stereotypes of White Nationalism, everything about them screams “fringe group” to the masses. As seen below, the NSM boneheads understand nothing about the aesthetic allure of fascism:
Personally, I wouldn’t put the NSM in the same genus of fascism, although several scholars would disagree. Instead, I would argue that their roots can be traced back to the counterculture and avant-garde tradition of shocking the bourgeoisie. The NSM shares the comic book expressive individualism that animates a much broader cross section of the American public. Most of these groups lean to the Left; a few like the NSM gravitate to the Right. In the case of the skinheads, they merge in a shared music scene.
The academic literature about fascism (Paxton, Griffin, Payne, Mosse, Benjamin) is quite interesting. In recent years, the polarization that followed the WW2/Cold War years has faded and some serious scholarship has been done on the subject. Fascism is no longer dismissed as the last gasp of reactionary capitalism, but as a revolutionary movement in its own right. Most scholars of fascism agree that (generic) fascist movements share a number of distinct characteristics:
1.) They promise a cathartic national rebirth from a period of decadence.
2.) They are anti-liberal, anti-communist, and anti-conservative.
3.) They promise a social, political and ethical revolution.
4.) They usually advocate an authoritarian state.
5.) They are revolutionary, populist, and cross class lines.
6.) They aestheticize politics.
White Nationalism shares 4/6 of these criteria. A few groups reach 6/6 and can legitimately be described as “fascist” in nature. Although fascism is now a dirty word, one that I shrink from using, it is clear that White Nationalism owes much to that political tradition. It is a mixture of indigenous racial nationalism and foreign anti-liberalism.
Something new is brewing amongst disillusioned, middle class, college educated Gen X’ers and Gen Y’ers. It doesn’t yet have a name. The sentiment hasn’t been channelled into a formal organization either. These people don’t want a Duce or a Fuhrer, but they yearn for a “national rebirth” of sort. One day it will scare the powers that be.
I agree with all six. Damn, I suppose that makes me a Fascist, then.;) Although, I would add that Fascism includes a significant element of violence.
I agree with you about Gen X’ers and Gen Y’ers. They may not want a Duce or Fuhrer, but one might be required. These demographics are extremely individualistic and competitive. And yet, like most people, they are followers. I see little potential for cooperation without some kind of unifying figure or organization.
Still, something I’ve noticed about modern White Americans is that they simply do not like one another. There’s something particularly bitter, hostile, and cynical in the character of modern White Americans. This represents a signficant obstacle, I think, to unity.
Militarism and imperialism are often included as essential features of fascism. I don’t think either are required.
To be fair, National Socialism is not Fascism, as Fascism is not National Socialism. They have a few differences, which divide these two ideologies from eachother.
Gentilshommes,
Fascism is The State.
NS is The Race.
NN
Without contradicting the original six characteristics on the list, I think there could very well be two more.
(7) They promise improvements in future generations of the citizenry or the demography in question.
(8) They promise a conversion in individual mental/emotional attitudes to a higher state.
“Still, something I’ve noticed about modern White Americans is that they simply do not like one another. There’s something particularly bitter, hostile, and cynical in the character of modern White Americans. This represents a signficant obstacle, I think, to unity.”
Are you speaking of a particular region? I hear that New Yorkers especially are like that.
I think America would be better off as two or more nations. I really have nothing in common with these suicidal liberals. I don’t care to be in constant conflict with them.
I want to like other whites, but I just tend to find so many things I don’t like about them. 🙂
I find that I generally have more personality compatibility with people who descend from northwestern Europe.
“White Nationalism shares 4/6 of these criteria.”
Which ones ?
“1.) They promise a cathartic national rebirth 3.) They promise a social revolution.”
It is more a hope than a promise.
“4.) They usually advocate an authoritarian state.”
Today’s white nationalists are even worse than yesterday’s fascists. They have to hope for civil war, followed by 50 years of pro-white dictatorship. Nothing less will save the Whites! When the 50 year period is over, we need to sit down and discuss what form of government we think would work best to ensure our existence.
“6.) They aestheticize politics.”
And not just politics. They try to instill some meaning, beauty, and heroism into human life, whereas their opponents try to desecrate everything.
I think normal people (that is to say, most people) can be described as soft fascists :
1. wrt cathartic rebirth: They hope things will get back to normal
2. They are anti-liberal (since they still have moral values)
3. wrt social revolution: They hope things will get back to normal
4. authoritarian state: They wish the laws were still enforced
5. crossing class lines: They ARE the people
6. (not sure if they like aestheticism in politics)
What they lack is the will to do what it takes.
“The academic literature about fascism (Paxton, Griffin, Payne, Mosse, Benjamin) is quite interesting.”
Do those academics understand that the existence of white people is now at stake ?
Do they care at all ? Does it affect their judgment of nazism ?
Which ones
1, 2, 3, and 5.
Gentilshommes,
1. wrt cathartic rebirth: They hope things will get back to normal
3. wrt social revolution: They hope things will get back to normal
[wrt “getting back to normal,” see my response to Kurtagic’s latest over at TOQonline (4th/4 Comments)]
NN
It is not that we are so bitter, hostile and cynical towards other whites; it is that so many other whites are loathsome and worthy of contempt.
It is not that we are so bitter, hostile and cynical towards other whites; it is that so many other whites are loathsome and worthy of contempt, I mean liberal.
I, for one, would like to congratulate the NSM for some topical and well-orchestrated real-world activism. I would like to thank them for taking both a physical and a social risk for me and my family. I share Prozium’s concerns about using the NS as a model for effective resistance, but I just want to relay that I’m sincerely appreciative.
Somebody, somewhere, should have the courage to stand up for that child on that bus and only the NSM did it. Prozium didn’t do it. NSM did it. It’d be great if Prozium stepped up to advise and help guide what is evidently a motivated group. I love Prozium’s blog and I enjoy his insights, but I don’t know how useful to the movement he’s going to be if he keeps tearing down motivated White activists….
I’m not interested in tearing down the NSM. They have marginalized themselves. The only reason I brought them up is 1.) they seem to be the only organization on the ground engaging in real world activism and 2.) given the feedback I have received, I seriously doubt any reader of this blog would ever contemplate joining their ranks.
There is a whole different class of racialist out there. These are highly intelligent, educated, middle class White males in their twenties and thirties. Most of them are following our discussions in relative silence. At the moment, these people don’t have an organization to join and advance their interests. I would like to see this change.
I’m hoping that Occidental Dissent will attract a large readership and spawn a web of similar sites. That’s the first step. My stuff is always at the top of the Google Blog searches for “White Nationalism.” In particular, I would like to do a racialist project with multiple contributors like the LRC Blog.
A webring of pro-White blogs could evolve into a real life network. Given enough time, as the network expands, it could become the seed of a future organization.
Gentilshommes,
I, for one, would like to congratulate the NSM for some topical and well-orchestrated real-world activism. (Wikitopian)
I second that.
I seriously doubt any reader of this blog would ever contemplate joining their ranks.
There is a whole different class of racialist out there. These are highly intelligent, educated, middle class White males in their twenties (Prozium)
I was as the latter in my twenties – doing as the former in my twenties.
NN
You’re doing a great job, Prozium. Keep at it.
Another group you might consider is Freedom 14, a White Nationalist group based in Orange County, CA. I’ve actually met some of these guys, who spend their Saturday afternoons distributing leaflets and talking to people at the local beaches. Worth a look.
http://freedom14.org/
Admiral: “Still, something I’ve noticed about modern White Americans is that they simply do not like one another. There’s something particularly bitter, hostile, and cynical in the character of modern White Americans. This represents a signficant obstacle, I think, to unity.”
Yes, there is a lot of truth to this. Part of it can probably be explained by Putnam’s research which demonstrates that trust levels go down in a diverse society – even trust of one’s fellow ethnics.
There are numerous other likely causes, from a hyped up materialism to a decadent and immoral society. Why trust, or even like, the immoral and unreliable clowns that surround us? What is so likeable about them? Why respect them?
We live in a world of pump and dumps and crass materialism. Frankly, I’m surprised that whites are as nice to one another as they are.
Point is, we have a very sick society. The rot is broad and deep. This makes cooperation difficult, but at the same time it creates a vacuum of sorts that a new movement may well be able to fill. Double edged sword. If white nationalism can achieve critical mass, I think we will all be very surprised at how rapidly things can move.
Liberalism and the expressivist ethos seem increasingly exhausted. Promising liberation, in practice they create misery and alienation. What comes next? White nationalism, if we can but grasp the opportunity. If there was ever a society in deep need of rebirth…
Prozium:”I’m hoping that Occidental Dissent will attract a large readership and spawn a web of similar sites. That’s the first step. My stuff is always at the top of the Google Blog searches for “White Nationalism.” In particular, I would like to do a racialist project with multiple contributors like the LRC Blog.”
I’m glad to hear that your material comes out on top. This is just the sort of site that newbies should be reading – well written, insightful, and spot on. Prozium, you are doing a fantastic job.
I’m a Gen X’er with a graduate degree from a prestigious university, upper-middle class lifestyle and income and a fascist through and through.
I just finished reading this pretty good piece:
http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html
…
How does all of this stuff flood in here? How does it flood into our universities, and indeed into our lives today? The members of the Frankfurt School are Marxist, they are also, to a man, Jewish. In 1933 the Nazis came to power in Germany, and not surprisingly they shut down the Institute for Social Research. And its members fled. They fled to New York City, and the Institute was reestablished there in 1933 with help from Columbia University. And the members of the Institute, gradually through the 1930s, though many of them remained writing in German, shift their focus from Critical Theory about German society, destructive criticism about every aspect of that society, to Critical Theory directed toward American society. There is another very important transition when the war comes. Some of them go to work for the government, including Herbert Marcuse, who became a key figure in the OSS (the predecessor to the CIA), and some, including Horkheimer and Adorno, move to Hollywood.
These origins of Political Correctness would probably not mean too much to us today except for two subsequent events. The first was the student rebellion in the mid-1960s, which was driven largely by resistance to the draft and the Vietnam War. But the student rebels needed theory of some sort. They couldn’t just get out there and say, “Hell no we won’t go,” they had to have some theoretical explanation behind it. Very few of them were interested in wading through Das Kapital. Classical, economic Marxism is not light, and most of the radicals of the 60s were not deep. Fortunately for them, and unfortunately for our country today, and not just in the university, Herbert Marcuse remained in America when the Frankfurt School relocated back to Frankfurt after the war. And whereas Mr. Adorno in Germany is appalled by the student rebellion when it breaks out there – when the student rebels come into Adorno’s classroom, he calls the police and has them arrested – Herbert Marcuse, who remained here, saw the 60s student rebellion as the great chance. He saw the opportunity to take the work of the Frankfurt School and make it the theory of the New Left in the United States.
One of Marcuse’s books was the key book. It virtually became the bible of the SDS and the student rebels of the 60s. That book was Eros and Civilization. Marcuse argues that under a capitalistic order (he downplays the Marxism very strongly here, it is subtitled, A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud, but the framework is Marxist), repression is the essence of that order and that gives us the person Freud describes – the person with all the hang-ups, the neuroses, because his sexual instincts are repressed. We can envision a future, if we can only destroy this existing oppressive order, in which we liberate eros, we liberate libido, in which we have a world of “polymorphous perversity,” in which you can “do you own thing.” And by the way, in that world there will no longer be work, only play. What a wonderful message for the radicals of the mid-60s! They’re students, they’re baby-boomers, and they’ve grown up never having to worry about anything except eventually having to get a job. And here is a guy writing in a way they can easily follow. He doesn’t require them to read a lot of heavy Marxism and tells them everything they want to hear which is essentially, “Do your own thing,” “If it feels good do it,” and “You never have to go to work.” By the way, Marcuse is also the man who creates the phrase, “Make love, not war.” Coming back to the situation people face on campus, Marcuse defines “liberating tolerance” as intolerance for anything coming from the Right and tolerance for anything coming from the Left. Marcuse joined the Frankfurt School, in 1932 (if I remember right). So, all of this goes back to the 1930s.
In conclusion, America today is in the throws of the greatest and direst transformation in its history. We are becoming an ideological state, a country with an official state ideology enforced by the power of the state. In “hate crimes” we now have people serving jail sentences for political thoughts. And the Congress is now moving to expand that category ever further. Affirmative action is part of it. The terror against anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is part of it. It’s exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it’s coming here. And we don’t recognize it because we call it Political Correctness and laugh it off. My message today is that it’s not funny, it’s here, it’s growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that we have ever defined as our freedom and our culture.
The “student rebellion” of the sixties was the inevitable result of ending the quotas on the number of jews admitted to the ivy league universities. The whole thing was engineered by jewry. It wasn’t some spontaneous white gentile reaction to the war. You can see today that without jewry engineering an antiwar movement white gentiles are willing to tolerate several wars for Israel at the same time.
Friedrich, your degree from a prestigious university is a hint why you went native and advocate reconciliation with the jews.
“The ‘student rebellion’ of the sixties was […] engineered by jewry. It wasn’t some spontaneous white gentile reaction to the war.” ( — OldRight)
OldRight is correct.
quoted by Fr.Braun: “Very few of them were interested in wading through Das Kapital. Classical, economic Marxism is not light, and most of the radicals of the 60s were not deep.”
Wasting time reading Das Kapital would be a sign of stupidity.
1.) They promise a cathartic national rebirth from a period of decadence.
2.) They are anti-liberal, anti-communist, and anti-conservative.
3.) They promise a social, political and ethical revolution.
4.) They usually advocate an authoritarian state.
5.) They are revolutionary, populist, and cross class lines.
6.) They aestheticize politics.
And yet, somewhat ironically, it’s precisely those features that diminish its long-term viability. Revolutionary zeal is obviously useful and, things being what they are, will probably be essential, but it’s fantastically naive to think it can last. Eventually people will tire of celebrating their whiteness, or whatever it is that fascists would have them do, with the result that the very racial survival WNs turn to fascism to secure will again — 100, 200 years from now — be put at risk as minds find reasons to assure themselves that “this time” they’ll get multiethnicism right.
The reality is that it’s the cultural left that addresses itself to solving the most keenly felt problems of human existence. Regardless of the poor job it has done so far — mostly because it willfully ignores heredity — it has identified the issues, or at least their “location.” Fascism is a throwback to an era when the only problems that “mattered” were those of elites; the democratization of information virtually ensures that no amount of victory salutes can hope to trick the masses into surrendering to the sort oppressive hierarchies fascists like Braun yearn for.
True and of course part of the mechanism by which we find ourselves in the soup we’re in right now — the wisdom and hard-won life experiences of prior generations has been forgotten. It’s a bridge we’ll have to cross when we get there.
Gentilshommes,
Fascism is a throwback to an era when the only problems that “mattered” were those of elites;…
An amazingly uninformed remark – wherein quite the opposite was the case.
…no amount of victory salutes can hope to trick the masses into surrendering to the sort oppressive hierarchies fascists like Braun yearn for.
As taken from A Leftist’s Crayola Creations propaganda comic book account of the history of fascism.
NN
“Eventually people will tire of celebrating their whiteness, or whatever it is that fascists would have them do, with the result that the very racial survival WNs turn to fascism to secure will again — 100, 200 years from now — be put at risk as minds find reasons to assure themselves that “this time” they’ll get multiethnicism right.”
In the past, Europeans were not fascists celebrating their whiteness, but they were not interested in multiethnicism, and they tried to repel invasions by Arabs, Mongols, and Turks. Maybe in the future we can become like that again.
Yeah, I’d get real tired of seeing white people, white culture, low crime, orderly and pleasant behavior instead of obnoxious Jews, blacks and Hispanics. Let me count the ways that I would hate that. I would really miss forced diversity in schools, work and in the media.
“Revolutionary zeal is obviously useful and, things being what they are, will probably be essential, but it’s fantastically naive to think it can last. Eventually people will tire of celebrating their whiteness, or whatever it is that fascists would have them do, with the result that the very racial survival WNs turn to fascism to secure will again — 100, 200 years from now — be put at risk as minds find reasons to assure themselves that “this time” they’ll get multiethnicism right.”
Of course, people said the same thing about other authoritarian regimes, such as Franco’s Spain, Pinochet’s Chile, USSR, Red China, Cuba, etc., all of which happened to be around for quite a long time.
In order to reconquer our country–to clean it out, effect mass population transfers, expel or liquidate our race enemies, clean up the universities, etc–is 20 or 30 years of rule. After that, we could probably relax a little bit. But imagine what we could accomplish if we achieved power for, as you say, 100-200 years! 🙂
“Revolutionary zeal is obviously useful and, things being what they are, will probably be essential, but it’s fantastically naive to think it can last. Eventually people will tire of celebrating their whiteness, or whatever it is that fascists would have them do, with the result that the very racial survival WNs turn to fascism to secure will again — 100, 200 years from now — be put at risk as minds find reasons to assure themselves that “this time” they’ll get multiethnicism right.”
True in large measure. Surely the revolutionary zeal will wane over time. This naturally leads to the question of what then?
The challenge that we face is to craft a society in which normal whites who oppose the genocide of their people will be able to take effective action against those who would seek to destroy them. Just as there will always be white sickos, there will also always be large numbers of whites who oppose being blended out of existence. We need to develop a societal framework in which the good guys aren’t neutered, as they have been today.
How to go about this? Well, part of it may be to establish a tradition of armed resistance against those who would let the barbarians past the gates. This must be institutionalized, and explicitly part of our heritage. We’ve got to establish a tradition in which white sickos cannot betray their own people without serious personal repercussions. This tradition must be complete with heroes and lore.
We also have to look at how to safeguard the institutions that the anti-whites have managed to hijack and use against us. Obviously, this requires serious consideration of the sort that doesn’t seem to have been done in white nationalist cirlces, at least as far as I’m aware. Of course, if these safegards fail, see paragraph above.
But I think one of the biggest things that we need to accomplish (once victory is achieved) is promotion of the “catch basin” concept. In our society today, freaks and sickos tend to congregate in certain areas. They move to San Francisco, or Seattle, or what have you. These places are, in essence, catch basins for freaks.
Well, we need to ramp this up a notch – to a NATIONAL scale. When we have a white nation, we also need a racially mixed state that sick whites can easily migrate to. They should be able to migrate to the mixed nation every bit as easily as today they might migrate to Portland.
I could certainly envision a world in which the vast majority of nations take it as a given that they should maintain their respective peoples and heritage. But this would also be a world in which some mixed states exist, in order to provide catch basins for the various freaks and weirdos who come to hate their own people and culture. You want to bed down with Rufus the Rastafarian? Fine. That’s what they do in Mongreltopia. Here is your ticket. Don’t go away mad, just go away.
We need these people out of our nation and out of our culture, not to mention out of our gene pool.
We’ve got to get away from the universalist idea that everybody has to be submerged in the multicult, and move to the much fairer and more sustainable idea that the various peoples of the world have the right to maintain themselves, while at the same time providing incentives for the sickos to move Mongreltopia. A world of choice instead of oppression. You want Mogreltopia? Fine. Here is your passport. Hell, we’ll even buy your ticket for you.
But you aren’t going to force it on us. Fair is fair, and if you try to breach that contract, well, see the earlier paragraph.
I don’t think this attitude requires white hot zeal. I can certainly see a sober, deliberate and reasonable populace operating in such a manner over the long haul. It’s sustainable. Of course, it requires a little thing called victory in order to come about, but we still have to think about these things, hypothetical as they certainly are.
“Something new is brewing amongst disillusioned, middle class, college educated Gen X’ers and Gen Y’ers.”
I’m not sure what this means, but outside of WN/HBD circles these people are thoroughly PC. You could get the impression that there is a big move away from PC if you mostly look at friendly websites, but it’s not true in general.
Great comments by Trainspotter @ #29 above.
“How to go about this? Well, part of it may be to establish a tradition of armed resistance against those who would let the barbarians past the gates. This must be institutionalized, and explicitly part of our heritage. We’ve got to establish a tradition in which white sickos cannot betray their own people without serious personal repercussions. This tradition must be complete with heroes and lore.”
Agreed. But the problem, today, is that the sickos have the (anti-White) government, (anti-white) legal system, and (anti-white) security forces backing them up. For the time being, of course.
A webring of pro-White blogs could evolve into a real life network. Given enough time, as the network expands, it could become the seed of a future organization.
I’m willing to engage in more well crafted and regular commentary and blogging should you ever decide to press forward with the idea Proze.
Increasing site traffic would be much easier through coordinated effort and some good old fashioned “google bombing” if the need ever arise.
I can testify that getting into actual, physical, contact with internet chaps doesn’t do any harm and most of the time I’ve found that it turns out much better than expected and opens one up to the possibility of meeting people with whole different areas of expertise then you. People who are willing to summarize books and ideas for you and save you time. Often, if they are close enough, they become people to drink coffee and beer with and to help you move.
I think Facebook is a nice intermediate step, or maybe we could even develop an Ourspace equivalent for the intelligent and gentelmanly group of racially aware white folk that we are speaking of.
These people don’t want a Duce or a Fuhrer, but they yearn for a “national rebirth” of sort. One day it will scare the powers that be.
I’m not sure that I want a Fuhrer either and I don’t think we need one in America. However, White Nationalists in America can capture the people in the same manner and inject ourselves and our kind in such a way into the public discourse so as to secure a dominant position and become a kind of in fuhrer locis who’s social commentary and policy prescriptions become “gospel” and the written standard for the volk.
How to go about this? Well, part of it may be to establish a tradition of armed resistance against those who would let the barbarians past the gates. This must be institutionalized, and explicitly part of our heritage. We’ve got to establish a tradition in which white sickos cannot betray their own people without serious personal repercussions. This tradition must be complete with heroes and lore.
Ostracism and shame are much more powerful motivators than the threat of physical violence. I would argue that they are the only real motivators.
Miscegenation would fade rapidly should the perpetrators be “branded” with the “Scarlet M” which of course requires that we again dominate the discourse.
Somebody brought up Putnam in another thread and I think one way to win hearts and minds is to reverse the erosion of trust and increase the social capital of White Nationalists. I also go out of my way to do favors (lay tile, move, paint, counsel, etc) for everybody at my local union hall and I’ve converted a lot of people just by doing nice things for them. If you are forceful in your views but equally forceful in expressing your love for your kind through real on-the-ground activism (not silly goose-stepping demonstrations) you’ll see broader change. These people will invite you into their homes and your the sharp edge of our views is blunted by the warm feelings they have for you.
Love, is really doing when it boils down to it and an infinite amount of theorizing isn’t worth a an ounce of friendship. People are generally, lost, alone, suspicious, drifting and hurt and our work should begin by reaching out and enabling people to live rightly.
“Ostracism and shame are much more powerful motivators than the threat of physical violence.”
These are certainly powerful motivators, and we must harness them in the new white nation. However, we’ve seen that these can be defeated and even inverted. Not so long ago, miscegenators would have faced enormous ostracism and shame. That didn’t stop the anti-whites from turning our culture upside down and beginning in earnest the genocide of whites. Ultimately, unless dedicated whites are willing to mete out personal justice, safeguards can and will fail. Ostracism and shame are defeated if not backed up by the sword.
Ostracism, shame and physical violence are not incompatible or mutually exclusive.
“Somebody brought up Putnam in another thread and I think one way to win hearts and minds is to reverse the erosion of trust and increase the social capital of White Nationalists. I also go out of my way to do favors (lay tile, move, paint, counsel, etc) for everybody at my local union hall and I’ve converted a lot of people just by doing nice things for them.”
I brought up Putnam. Glad to see that you are doing these things, that’s really great. Just the sort of thing we need. Ultimately, whites must understand that they can trust us and rely upon us. Right now they don’t. Over the years, every now and then you will hear of something along the lines of some white “supremacist” group trying to adopt a highway or something. That’s fine, and I suppose it’s a move in the right direction, but ultimately we aren’t going to make a real impression doing that sort of thing. Picking up garbage along a highway, while a nice gesture, is too impersonal. We won’t make nearly the impression that can be made when you look someone in the eyes and help them out in a time of need – the sorts of things you are describing. This thing has got to be personal, very personal. (hat tip to The Godfather)
Ultimately, unless dedicated whites are willing to mete out personal justice, safeguards can and will fail. Ostracism and shame are defeated if not backed up by the sword.
True.
I’ve always argued that it is up to the community to police itself. All police are is stenograhers of decline. We ourselves must be willing to take matters into our own hands and I do agree with you here.
However, controlling the discourse will enable us to resurrect the concept of shame which is entirely gone. The erosion of trust means isolation and isolation means that people have no allegiences to others and no moral responsibilities.
Very nice thoughts danielj, but when someone trys to engender a sense of shame in a sexual pervert who wants to enchain our race in sado-masochist empire and you tell her to get back to the kitchen it sort of sounds hollow. Perhaps you should practise what you preach.
You think he is a sexual pervert?
I don’t know what the comments in question were or are but I imagine they were germane and they were using sex as a metaphor if indeed they were sexual at all.
I have no enemies to the right of me and I’m not about NN becoming the Fuhrer anytime soon.
Perhaps you just need to relax a little? I’ll defend Hitler too, even as a fundamentalist Christian. It doesn’t mean I agree with him on everything right?
…not worried about NN becoming the Fuhrer anytime soon.
I put an end to the SM comments.
Asking a women if she fantizised about strangers going down on her on this board is some sort of metaphor? From your previous comments I know you have come across this pervert before. Perhaps you need to stop relaxing so much and PRACTISE WHAT YOU PREACH. Instead of ostracising the decent maybe the perverts should be on your hit list.
Anyway Lena’s response to the pervert and his protectors and defenders such as yourself is on my blog.
Once again, I cut out the SM comments and put NN on moderation. Everything he writes now has to go through the filter and be approved by me. Problem solved.
I haven’t had the time to excise the offending comments. I’m preparing to go out of town for the weekend. Report them to my email address and I will take care of it when I get back.
I really like the comments from Trainspotter and danielj above. Top-notch thinking. I should ponder them a bit further before sending a response. But I want to say, this is the kind of thinking WNism needs.
Here again is a fatal flaw of whites. Prozium recoiled in horror at the site of the unrefined Nazis since this may scare Sally soccer mom and Sam suburbanite and lead them to believe that white nationalism is all about tattoos, Roman salutes and lots of “Sieg Heiling”. And this makes our job of winning over the white masses that much harder.
Firstly, if ordinary white people believe that simply being racially conscious and aware places one on par with the Nazis then we’re lost. I would hope most white people are intelligent and rational enough to distinguish between being racially conscious and dressing up in Nazi costumes. However, I’ve learned to set my sights very low when it comes to the average white person’s understanding of racial issues.
Secondly, and most importantly, many white nationalists condemn the more radical elements of the pro-white political spectrum while non-whites readily embrace theirs. When the Nation of Islam or New Black Panthers hold a rally they aren’t met by throngs of anti-racist blacks shouting them down. The NAACP isn’t in a panic over their image. No, most blacks are sympathetic with the goals of these organizations. Ditto for the Mestizos. La Raza has never condemned Mecha or the Brown Berets and hell will freeze over before they ever do. They will make common cause with any group that nurses a racial hatred of whites and works for our complete dispossession.
Whites are so preoccupied with respectability and cultivating a million dollar image that we spend more time attacking and demeaning like minded people that we perceive to harm the white nationalist cause. Non-whites aren’t hampered by this kind of thinking which is why they are beating us politically at this time.
Yeah, who cares about high culture, decorum and respect for others, we should act more like third-world savages and those at VNN.
Prozium recoiled in horror at the site of the unrefined Nazis since this may scare Sally soccer mom and Sam suburbanite and lead them to believe that white nationalism is all about tattoos, Roman salutes and lots of “Sieg Heiling”. And this makes our job of winning over the white masses that much harder.
The VNN boys recoil just as equally at Sally and Sam. The language utilized by these types is generally one of disgust for our ancestors and hatred of the white bourgeois. Well, in case you haven’t figured it out, we are the white bourgeois. They – Sally and Sam – are our people as much as those unreconstructed neo-Nazis playing dress up and scaring the shit out of all the old people.
Who exactly is closer to where we need to finally ‘get’?
Well, it is hard to say. People that are playing dress up and runing around town in regalia probably are closer to mental disorder than being useful to our movement but they are still our people and can still be a fertile recruiting ground.
Anthony,
Perhaps NN has only recently started making such comments since I don’t recall him posting about anything other than minutae about WWII and economics in all of our previous encounters. I trust Proze’s judgment though and am sorry if you thought I was defending ‘perversion’ when it certainly wasn’t my intention.
However, my point about oversensitivity still stands even though I do apologize for stepping out of line so quickly.
Proze, I trust you’ve got it under control and will do my best to implement any of your policies for the site.
While there’s some truth to what critics of the NSM’s approach are saying they miss the most serious flaw in the rallies the NSM and all other Nazi-style organizations have been putting on since Rockwell was killed.
That they are pathetic.
Pathetic numbers of pathetic physical specimens with pathetic “uniforms” that don’t even match and which are poorly designed to begin with.
It’s one thing to look ridiculous in the photos taken by the jew media, of course they’re going to use the worst images they can get, but the NSM can’t even make themselves look good in the photos they post on their own web site!
Now if the NSM could produce a rally with 500 tough looking men in matching, well made uniforms they might still be laughed at by the smirking jews, but it would be nervous laughter.
Bring out 10,000 uniformed White men and they wouldn’t be laughing anymore.
Rally 100,000 men and regardless of the uniforms the jews would be having nightmares, as they should.
NN,
An amazingly uninformed remark – wherein quite the opposite was the case.
I was referring to 21st century fascists, American fascists — “neo-fascists,” if you prefer. It’s they who represent a throwback to time when the little guy just didn’t count. I didn’t mean”fascism” itself. But I stand by my claim that fascism doesn’t really address what matters to people, not over the long-term, anyway. (Come on, take someone like Braun or Rienzi. Their contempt for the average and the weak of their own kind jumps off the page and smacks you in the head like a right hook. A guy like Braun’s into fascism so he can saunter down the avenue in his swanky pinstripe and have fathers send their kids rushing to volunteer to run errands for him. Meanwhile, back in the real world that’s learnt a few things about human desires and feelings…)
Armor,
In the past, Europeans were not fascists celebrating their whiteness, but they were not interested in multiethnicism,
Wrong. They might not have been “interested” in it, but they experienced it nonetheless.
Armor, you launch (ad win) your little “War of Marquardt’s Mask” the way some of you are just itching to, and I’d bet a handsome sum of money your descendants a century or two down the track are going to wonder what all the fuss was about and again feel seized by a guilt complex. FFS, you’d think the American Founding Fathers laid it all out about as good as it could ever be laid out but look how royally their descendants fucked all that up. Okay, cross that bridge when you get to it, but why not learn a little something from where others have failed and build that into your plans from the get-go?
[posted the evening of the 7th at “superhuman” to assure its publication:]
SUPERHUMAN THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
****************[10/07/09]****************
[A note to participants in the venue Occidental Dissent, in general (who, I hope, will pass along this message) and to the participant known as “danielj,” in particular:
This temporarily-posted but time-critical message is intended as a explanation to a very few persons who might have questions as to the reasons for my future absence from the venue named above. I intend especially to address “danielj,” with thanks for his kind remarks and support therein, and to say that it is on his account that I examine this matter publicly, lest his support and my unrationalized absence combine to place him in anything of an awkward position [as seemingly it has done, today, as immediately above (NN, 10/08)].
Until this evening’s exchanges of messages on the venue, I had decided, for the greater good, to ignore having been placed on “moderation” for having posted according to what evidently was/is a misunderstanding as to specifics of the moderator’s proscription of discussion of a certain topic. I allowed the implication to stand that I had willfully transgressed, despite my intention and judgment to the contrary and in the hope that the moderator had failed to fully examine the issue and then to turn his discipline upon the provocateurs responsible for initiating and sustaining the episode, as they did with varying portions and proportions of nonsense, insult, and misrepresentations that I patiently attempted to correct.
I will no longer permit this implication to stand, because this evening’s development – an exchange between the moderator and one of the provocateurs – has permitted the suspicion, due to my continuing status, and due to the moderator’s continuing to allow the provocateurs to raise the issue of the episode, that I have continued to submit proscribed material, not seen on the venue for its having been discarded under moderation. Likewise, my future absence will suggest that I have left for frustration at not being heard further on the subject that the provocateurs raised and with which even now they persist – despite my having contributed nothing, since moderation status, remotely contrary to any proscription.
So I again thank “danielj” and hope that this explanation will allow him to comfortably associate or dis-associate himself with or from “NeoNietzsche” in the future.]
NN
I haven’t disassociated myself at all.
I didn’t “see” entirely what happened and am not taking anybody’s side but am simply respecting the wishes of the moderator.
I stand by everything I wrote and only apologized for people misunderstanding by thinking I was defending any kind of perversion. I’ve done no such thing and will never do such a thing. However, forceful language and the deployment of very strong methaphorical language I’m in no way averse, especially when driving home a point to people I’m losing patience with.
I hope, in the interest of having robust and interesting discussion, that NN continues to post here and that people’s skins thicken up just a bit.
I also find it expedient when dealing with anybody that understands the issue that is of paramount importance to our people, i.e. race replacement, and is commited to its reversal in any of our historic homelands that we extend the benefit of the doubt whenever disputes arise and resolve them in civil fashion despite throat cutting and back stabbing being man’s first instinct.
Some are on paths that are only parallel to our own, some are further down or farther back the same on and so our communication needs to revert back instantly to extreme circumspection and deference whenever problems arise. Maintaining open communication and the free exchange of ideas is important to me and that is only possible if we respect the weak while trying to make them stronger and if we who are weak give the strong some leeway.