I’ve answered the following question:
“Here is the major issue that we need to address: does blogging about the Jewish Question, that is, drawing attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the exterminationist anti-Semites? Are we making their job easier? Are we making people more receptive to the idea of killing Jews and non-Whites? What are the moral implications of that?”
I think most people here will be satisfied. It is a fair and reasonable answer. It is not the ideological whiplash that some have expected, but a more tempered point of view.
Wow, this is a inspired article. it explains the concept of ‘ethno state’ as I have not heard or thought of it before. It is good, I must post some of it here. It is relevant to almost everything we have talked about.
Even advice for FB and why it is not wise to listen to the advice of unmarried women who have just left their lovers….
For those with the courage of their convictions, it’s never a matter of calculating the odds and going with the winning side, but of doing what needs to be done — like that Roman soldier of Pompeii cited by Spengler in Man and Technics, whose Aryan sense of duty kept him at his post, as Vesuvius exploded in fire.
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Viewed “objectively,” neither secession nor a white conservative reconquest has a chance, not one in a universe of infinite possibilities. Both are figments of a few white minds troubled by the prospect of their people’s imminent demise.
But that’s the way all great movements begin.
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If a presently unattainable ideal is not first articulated as a mythic possibility, it remains unrealized, for its idealization is part of the process that quickens its realization.
In 1774, only a few believed in American independence. After 1776 it was a critical mass
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Central to its realization, therefore, is not the objective forces opposing it, but the subjective will seeking its triumph.
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All great movements, Sorel saw, are driven not by rational arguments or party programs, but by their myths (which “are not descriptions of things, but expressions of a determination to act”).
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and more, please read this article
Thank you MGLS
Everyone:
Let’s move beyond the Jim Giles/Alex Linder controversy. We have talked about little else for over a week now. There must be at least a 1,000 comments about the matter.
Here’s your daily dose of the JQ from Antisemitica:
Jimmy Carter: Please Forgive Me
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/jimmy-carter-please-forgive-me/
Re: friedrich braun
We’ve been over the Geert Wilders strategy before. That thread also got over 300 comments.
– “Psychologicalshock”
I have to agree with this statement in its entirety. The problem is that morality is generally a set of mores, other than the threat of societal ostracism there is no “imperative” to be moral. But we are already ostracized in essence anyway, adhering to a Christian or post-Christian ethic will simply further handicap us while, all around us, a race war is being waged covertly. Indeed our enemies use the fact that we are constrained by a myopic morality to their advantage. Our instinct to survive ought to be enough and we will do what we must toward that end, anything that hampers that (in this case the aforesaid Christian or post-Christian morality) ought to be jettisoned.
I should have added to the above, that there is no question that the secular humanism of the Liberal age is an offshoot of the Christian morality, which itself was an offshoot of Socratic hyper-rationalism. Instinct and sense are the true guides from here, not conscience and reason (which have indeed, more than anything, enslaved us).
With so many Jews and half or quarter Jews here, just curious how many people here are NOT Jewish at all? (I’m not) I don’t feel particularly brave for saying I’m White, not Jewish.
I was under the impression that the “Occidental” sites were for us non-Jewish Whites, but at least here it seems that Jews and Judeophiles number around a third – and as usual – will not shut up and strive to dominate the conversation. We can’t even have a blog without being overrun by Jews.
I don’t read OD, TOQ, and TOO to hear what Jews have to say, nor to hear what the typical Shabbos goys have to say. If I wanted that I could turn on the TV, or the radio, or watch a Hollywood movie.
Forget the dream of a White ethno-state – I’m just looking for a freaking website where I don’t have to bother myself with listening to Jews. It seems that getting Jews to simply shut the hell up is itself an impossible dream.
The vast majority of commentators are White Gentiles. By my count, we have two Jewish commentators, AngryJew and DK; two mischlings, Crypto-Aryan and Iceman; and one philo-Semite, friedrich braun.
Whew! What a relief! No more fighting the ancient evil giant of the West anymore. Oy vey, what a burden lifted! There’s nothing like the feeling of giving up on a huge problem that seems impossible to solve to make one feel relaxed and happy. Also, Menschen, let’s party! Mozzeltoff, woohoo!
George wrote: Except, unlike Mormons, we require only the belief in the importance of preserving the White race.
Not picking on you here but I hear that all the time. It is not enough for the vast majority of people we want to reach. Most people need myth, drama, ritual, purpose, leaders who care about their everyday struggles, and something bigger than themselves to believe in. A purely physical goal like WGN persuades only a tiny minority. When the talking heads of the white racialist blogosphere understands this basic concept of human motivation, it will have a chance at becoming a real positive force for change, an actual “movement.”
W. T. Mann post #75 is very good.
Rusty,
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I have abandoned the Jewish Question. That’s weird. I have an entire website dedicated to the exploration of the matter. I updated it just this morning with two fresh blog entries.
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/weisz-and-stereotypes/
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/jimmy-carter-please-forgive-me/
Hunter,
You say…
“3.) I have a moral obligation to be honest and forthright. I won’t spread destructive rumors and charges that create unjustified prejudice. I will also dispel these as I come across them. I had planned to do this anyway.
4.) I have a moral obligation to deter exterminationist anti-Semitism. I will balance my coverage of the Jewish Question with posts that shore up traditional moral values. We should discuss Christian values and virtue ethics a lot more. This can be done at Occidental Dissent. Moral racialists won’t follow sociopaths down the exterminationist road.
5.) I have a moral obligation to emphasize that anti-Semitism is not an ideology. If Jews are willing to redress our grievances and acknowledge the harm they have done, as the White community has done on various issues, then we should abandon anti-Semitism.”
Re. #5 do you think history has shown Jewry to be an intractable enemy of Aryan Man? If no, what will it take to demonstrate this? Has history not shown many times where Jewry has said sorry, repented of their misdeeds and escaped Aryan justice only to resurface as soon as conditions were ripe more virulent than ever? If this is so how do we avoid this in the future? If a criminal says sorry is that enough or is not a healthy society justified in carrying out appropriate punishment?
Re. the morality you are obligated to follow. What is this morality? From whence does it come? Is not a healthy morality subordinate to the protection and progress of the people from where it came not vice versa? If you were a Christian or a Natural Law proponent you would be a bit hemmed in here but you are an avowed atheist.
On points 3 and 4 you have put yourself in a position of being responsible for “results” of debates. This is a very stultifying constraint for a man of ideas. Do you not see that?
“The vast majority of commentators are White Gentiles. By my count, we have two Jewish commentators, AngryJew and DK; two mischlings, Crypto-Aryan and Iceman; and one philo-Semite, friedrich braun.”
And all of them, but Braun, is a decent guy.
HW,
I have some misgivings about the antisemitica site. I’ve seen this pattern before, Israeli and Jewish topics on online forums cause so much heat and contention that site owners often try to segregate or restrict discussion to some penned-in area, for obvious reasons and from good intentions, to keep the issue from dominating the site.
But it’s a reaction; Jews and Judeophiles simply can’t take any criticism of Jews or Israel so every single non-Jew flattering post is met with throngs of attacks. You can see this on site after site, from right wing conservative forums to left wing liberal blogs.
I’m convinced that discussions of Jews and Israel have to be front and center and never regulated to some backwater. Certainly any pro-White website cannot ignore Jewish influence, but it’s true of many other subjects as well – war, foreign policy, the media, economics and the financial establishment.
I hope that the Antisemitica site will not chill conversation about Jews on the main OD site. I’d rather have seen a site devoted solely to Black street crime. I think the main issues in the pro-White movement, at least in America, are immigration and Jewish power; the others in my estimation are symptoms.
Please take that as friendly criticism, I think OD is great.
I started Antisemitica because I wanted readers to get a “daily dose” of the Jewish Question. It is such an important issue that I felt it deserved more attention, but in a calm and reasonable way that is absent from other sites. At the same time, I didn’t want Occidental Dissent to become overwhelmed with the discussion of one single issue. There is no shortage of Jewish related discussion on the main site.
I agree that having two separate blogs could result in an unhealthy segregation of White Advocacy and analysis of the Jewish Question. I assert that our movement would be best served by offering a balanced synthesis which integrates frank and complete analysis of Jewish influence into a pro-White site.
There are already plenty of sites that dwell on the Jewish Question, intelligent and crude. There are plenty of sites that are pro-White but either philo-Semitic or “Semitically agnostic”.
It also splits your traffic rankings, makes it more difficult to keep up on your posts, and creates an implicit suggestion that the JQ is too toxic and cancerous to exist side-by-side with other pro-White posts.
Hunter,
Sorry, I was blurting. And not to you but just in general, to people such as my friend Friedrich. What sickness has gripped him I do not know. I cannot understand what sense there is in joining with a known enemy, especially now at this opportune moment, when so many millions are newly open considering the JQ. I hope he gets well soon. And I look forward to seeing how your new strategy works out, it sound reasonable.
I like having everything in one place. It is more focused and aesthetically pleasing. I’m writing more about the JQ, not less.
Mr. Mann, I’m all American, 1/4 each of English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish. I’m a clans leader, celebrate 4th of July, St. Andrew’s and St. George’s. I love meat pies, eat me haggis with neeps and tatties, and drink green beer and wear green clovers on St. Patty’s day. Meine Muttersprache war Deutsch, most of my favorite everyday foods are German in origin (where my mother learned to cook). My children and I read and write Latin and Greek, and my daughter is beginning working on her Cymraeg. Sehr multikulti, Uns.
But no Jew juice.
“mischlings” usually implies part German part Jew. In order to be “aryan” in nazi germany, you need German blood not just “white blood.”
My point is that the term is tied to nazi germany, and hitler did not consider all europeans of non-Jewish ancestry to be candidates for aryaness.
If anyone has ever doubted that White Nationalism is a cyberspace movement of hate and irrationality, this thread should dispel such illusions. I’ve come under an avalanche of personal abuse, lies, and bullshit speculations, mostly from people who just stumbled upon me. As I’m not a masochist, I’ll take my leave. I was going to do it a few days but I thought that H.W. has finally come to his senses. I can defend myself against one or two posters, but not against a dozen piling on. They want me to go, I’ll oblige.
Sam Davidson, nice try…but no cigar. It’ll warm your anti-Semitic heart to know that the African anti-Semitic and Holocaust-denying comedian, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, started a new political party in France with the charming and unambiguous name: The Anti-Zionist Party. It’s a motley crew of Arabs, Africans, Islamists, Leftists, Hugo Chavez fans, etc. His party got a whopping 1.3% of the vote in the last European elections. Yup, anti-Semitism is a political winner!
In the meantime, Geert Wilders is on the verge of gaining power http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1618&Itemid=1
But above questions of tactics, who’s beneficial to the ethnic genetic interests of natives? M’bala M’bala or Wilders? How do you political collaborate with people you’d like to see leave your space, your nation? I’d rather have small numbers of well-disposed, highly intelligent Jews than the above-mentioned riff raff. Unless, of course, as I’m beginning to suspect, anti-Semitism is the overall concern here and not our ultimate interests. Just like for Linder killing Jews is an end in itself.
Don’t bother with your vicious personal attacks, I’ve already left.
Wikitopian, I hate to sound like a far left crazy person, but the Jewish issue is so divisive and it is so frequently discussed on the internet that the only way you can function is if you learn to be tolerant of other views (outside of extermination). The issue is more complex than just anti, pro and neutral.
Let me add that I’m not just talking about “occidental dissent” but also Marxist-Leninist forums and free speech forums like arguewitheveryone. The Jew issue really is all over the place. It’s divisive in circles that have nothing to do with race.
It’s polarizing, because those who care have strong opinions and the rest have no opinion at all. So it polarizes people who are interested in the subject, and bores and shocks anyone who’s not.
But it can’t be avoided. The cat is out of the bag.
Friedrich, please. How many times have you called people: Mental defectives, low-IQ, sociopaths, whackos, dregs, etc? It’s pretty brazen for you to decry that in others. Practice what you preach, ok?
friedrich,
When Geert Wilders throws Muslims out of the Netherlands and ends political correctness and multiculturalism, I will reconsider your point of view. Why aren’t you promoting Sarkozy? He is already in power. Sarkozy even has Jewish ancestry.
K.P., my assessment of what passes for White Nationalism in cyberspace has the benefit of being true. My only personal attacks were aimed at Linder, as I believe in calling a spade a spade. If you think calling me Judas is par for the course, it shows where you’re coming from.
George Witzgall: “So, the first step towards getting an ethnostate is getting together the group of people who desire to populate that ethnostate. That’s all I’m advocating: forming the group of people that will populate any future ethnostate.”
Agreed. I like that you focus on promoting something that people can start doing in the here and now. Kievsky focuses on these sorts of things as well. I think it’s great. A lot of good ideas out there.
It occurs to me that the white homeschool curriculum idea promoted by Alex could dovetail nicely with some of these ideas of yours and Kievsky. We see how current homeschoolers tend to network with one another, whether that be to exchange ideas on education, protect themselves politically, or just to provide their children with like minded companions and appropriate social opportunities. And, truth be told, probably just to give themselves a little adult-to-adult face time every now and again.
Point is, it’s demonstrably true that homeschooling is conducive to social networking and organizing. That’s the take home point.
Now, imagine a network of more racially conscious homeschoolers, those who use a white oriented curriculum. The homeschooling provides the parents with a common purpose and a common framework. It also allows them to find one another, and invites them to socialize and stay in communication with one another. Family friendly fun. All of a sudden, you’ve got a “we.” It may be a somewhat loose and amorphous “we,” but it’s there.
As this network developed, based upon the solid foundation of providing white children with a good education and respect for their heritage, all sorts of opportunities can develop. Your idea becomes a lot more appealing. Kievsky’s ideas become a lot more appealing. All of these ideas become far more workable. The white children will become friends, and those friendships will strengthen the relationships amongst the adults. Very powerful bonding forces will be at work, and powerful memories created as well. All cenetered around white families. Perfect.
I could go on and on, but it seems obvious that a white homeschooling network would be full of prime candidates for further separation from the Kwa. Enter Kievsky, or your idea, or what have you.
We’ve tended to think of these various ideas as separate and discrete. Maybe we should stop doing that. Instead, synergy may be the answer. Homeschooling could become the common thread, but certainly things don’t need to end there.
Wilders ins’t Sarkozy. Sarkozy has never spoken of repealing anti-free speech laws or ending multiculturalism. He doesn’t have to live with bodyguards 24/7 while never sleeping in the same place for two nights in a row. He isn’t persecuted for speech in his own country either.
Iceman,
I don’t know whether you intended to, but I believe you reinforced my point. Those who are well-versed on the subject and not frothing at the mouth need to help others integrate the data into a fundamentally affirmative, healthy, and persuasive pro-White agenda.
Enforcing silence on the Jewish issue forces people to the radical sites where they’re indoctrinated in the impotent, genocidal, and monomaniacal anti-Semitism that paralyzes action and prevents advocacy.
P.S.
This time Friedrich Braun is 100% serious about leaving us behind and never posting again. He is a man of his word, a man of integrity whose word is his honor. Some have whispered that he’ll post again, but not me. I believe in Friedrich Braun.
Fb – I happened to agree with your assessment of Linder as I stated repeatedly. And I also think that the JQ is just one part of a large and complex problem, as you do. But constant flames do not a case make; there are others here who don’t deserve the constant attacks that you were lobbing in my opinion.
For the benefit of the site and Hunter’s desire for less flaming I’ll leave the matter there.
Wikitopian is emblematic of the posters with whom H.W. has surrounded himself in his wisdom: even one discordant voice on the J.Q. is one too many!
Wikitopian, I don’t think people should enforce silence (except for exterminationalists), but should recruit enough people that the fringe is drowned out. The way it is now, the fringe often trolls away everyone else.
I’ve seen it happen on forums.
*face palm*
It was a Mellencamp video on an Indiana-oriented site. The video did not address anything racial.
ha, I thought he was talking about me, with the cypress hill video. That’s not a racialist website, my friend.
Jews and crypto-Jews will be attracted to a discussion wherever the Jew question is debated. If you don’t like this fact, go somewhere where it is not debated, such as VNN, or on the other hand, American Renaissance.
Why do whites fear the Jew? What power do they have over our race, other than white guilt? The answer is, nothing.
White guilt is a product of their eternal propaganda against us. I say to hell with them. I hate them with a passion, because they threaten the very existence of my race. There is only one way to treat your enemy, and that is with ruthlessness and a complete lack of compassion, because it was compassion that led us down this dark road to begin with.
Just eliminate jews from you life. Make them irrelevant. Don´t do business with them, don´t socialise with them, and try not to support anything jewish. Not their stinking movies, their trashy newspapers, or their crappy TV stations. Nothing.
Maybe they will get the message and go play in the sand with their own kind.
“Jews and crypto-Jews will be attracted to a discussion wherever the Jew question is debated.”
Very true, Jews love to discuss themselves. And being cast in the role of adversary as defending their people gets their mental juices flowing. A chance to deploy their verbal facility and psychological aggressively to that end is relished. I can relate.
I recall with fondness in one thread at the “Kvetcher’s” blog, when DK suggested that hundreds of thousands, nay millions, of his co-ethnics possibly could and should be settled in rural America. Needless to say, I took him to task for it, and all the rabble that soon piled on.
I love debating (and winning against!) Jews.
Yup, I’m sure you’ll miss us terribly in your jew free white ethnostate, Cap. Although you’ll still be plenty busy, debating with whites who want to live in an open society and think your obsession with jews is ridiculous.
Trainspotter post #128 is a good idea to me. Nothing radical involved at all. No manifestos required, just do it. Group with those who have common interests and grow your own community. That’s what we are doing.
Trainspotter is exactly correct — Jews want to turn White North America, Europe, and other White nations throughout the world (Australia/NZ, South Africa, etc) in to places which racially resemble Brazil North (or much of mongrelized Latin America in general), a place chock full of masses of miscegenated morons who have no hope to ever oppose total Jewish domination of the economy, mass-media, academia, the legal system, medicine, etc.
And Trainspotter is also correct that they will do everything they can to oppose a pro-White awakening amongst the White masses of North America, Europe, Australia, and elsewhere…Jews seek to subvert the White race so that they can eventually take over all White nations and rule over the mongrelized masses, living behind security fences, traveling from place to place removed from the miscegenated rabble in their armored vehicles and helicopters, and most importantly staying strictly separate from the racially-mixed masses by keeping important Jewish bloodlines intact — all of this whilst the rest of the racially mixed (subverted) population lives like near-animals in their mongrelized urban-slums.
To state it again: organized anti-White Jewry wants to turn ALL White nations in to places resembling Brazil North, heavily mongrelized Latin America in general, India, Central Asia, North Africa, and everywhere else in the world which are racially-mixed cesspools of anti-culture, corruption, and decline due to the extensive miscegenation that has occurred therein. Organized anti-White Jewry seeks to mongrelize Whites out of existence so that they can rule over a world full of these moronic racially-mixed masses entirely unopposed.
“To state it again: organized anti-White Jewry wants to turn ALL White nations in to places resembling Brazil North” ( — WP)
Correct.
I’d leave off the modifier “anti-white” because it’s redundant here:
“organized Jewry wants to turn ALL White nations in to places resembling Brazil North”
That’s fact, not “anti-Semitism.” Fact.
“. . .so that they can rule over a world full of these moronic racially-mixed masses entirely unopposed. . .”
Are jews so deluded that they think technology will still exist?
Friedrich, you compared an explicity ‘anti-semitic’ party to Geert Wilders. Of course Geert Wilders is going to be more popular – he isn’t a racialist. The dichotomy I was discussing was between explicit racialists and explicit anti-semites.
Sam, you were saying that anti-Semitism has great potential political appeal and I call it bullshit. I’ve been studying the movement for the last years and I’ve come to believe that anti-Semitism is a loser, if we want to preserve our ethnic genetic interests. That should be our number one concern.
This is how a political genius speaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KYqWnq7NJY&feature=related
Geert Wilders is an implicit racialist. It’s simply impossible to be an explicit racialist today in the West and expect any sort of real success. He has pushed the envelope as far as he could while still remaining politically viable.
…seven years…
“Geert Wilders is an implicit racialist.”
So was the Republican party up until at least the Ronnie Reagan years. Allowed ’em to talk out both sides of their mouths. “Trust us” wink wink “we can’t say it explicitly but we will represent your interests”. That dissimulation killed pro-White governmental action much more than the worst thing liberals ever did. Still, even if the elephants had become pro-White explicitly it would have been only a holding action unless the morality-defining institutions were not also retaken. Your new-found friends are not going to give them up as easy as the dotard White elite of the 20th Century.
I don’t see how one can blame the Jews for the anti-indigenous and pro-immigration attitudes of European elites. If they somehow control that aspect of policy, how is it they can’t keep these same Europeans from being as critical of Israel is they are?
It seems most European patriots are also genuninely disinterested in “naming the Jew,” which is why anti-Semites like Lady Michele Renouf (who believe me, as a straight man in love with European beauty, I want to love) tend to hang out instead with people like Cynthia McKinney and the head of the “British Islamic Party,” David Pidcock.
Sorry for the source, the photo is all I’m referencing:
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1100
Is this the sort of alliance you’re talking about, Sam Davidson?
How typical of Braunsteinberg – in comment #145 he links to an interview of Wilders with some repulsive self-promoting neoCONservative Rand-worshiping Jewess named Pamela Geller who of course cares more about Jews, Israel, killing billions of Muslims, and Randian hypercapitalism rather than preventing the White race from going semi-extinct in the 21st Century.
Whose side are you on, Braun?