Why We Lose

Cato the Elder

Why are White Nationalists losing? Why do our enemies seem omnipotent and unstoppable? Why have we failed to break into the political mainstream?

There is a simple answer: no one is doing much of anything in the real world. This is not to say that we lack veteran activists. I know of several people who have gone above and beyond in evangelizing the masses. The problem is that we don’t have enough people coming on board and amplifying their efforts.

Why aren’t White Nationalist organizations experiencing dynamic growth?

1.) Jewish Media Control The Jews control the media. It is that simple. The White Nationalist message isn’t reaching the masses. If White Nationalists controlled the media, Americans would join White Nationalist organizations.

Response: There is a lot of truth to this. Admittedly, there are thousands if not millions of potential recruits who never hear of us because we are excluded from radio and television. Still, I don’t think this is a compelling answer.

According to Leonard Zeskind, there are about 30,000 hardcore White Nationalists in the United States. White Nationalism reaches and influences several hundred thousand White Americans. There are millions of White Americans (about 15% of the population) who still cling to traditional racial views.

The combined membership of all active White Nationalist organizations is probably in the neighborhood of 5,000. Jewish influence in the media can’t explain why the people we are already reaching – the people who already agree with us – are not becoming more active in the real world.

2.) Keyboard CommandosThe internet is the worst thing that ever happened to the White Nationalist movement. Now that people can chatter with each other online, they are content to stay anonymous and type away on their keyboards all day.

Response: As with Jewish media control, there is an element of truth to this. Before the internet, White Nationalists were forced by inferior communications technology to regularly meet up in the real world. That is no longer the case. Now they can chat with each other in cyberspace.

This isn’t a completely satisfying answer though either. Barack Obama, Howard Dean, and Ron Paul heavily exploited the internet in their fundraising and get out the vote campaigns. The leftist blog “Daily Kos” has meetups in the real world. The conservatives and libertarians used the internet to build the Tea Party movement.

It is also worth noting that plenty of White Nationalist activists discovered the movement through the internet. Eventually, they joined organizations and got involved in the real world. Why can’t other White Nationalists make a similar transition? It is far more fun to interact with comrades in the real world than to post on the internet.

3.) Existing OrganizationsThere is no White Nationalist organization that appeals to me. I have no interest in paganism, the skinhead scene, Christian Identity, KKK, Neo-Confederacy, Neo-Nazism, or WCOTC.

Response: This is another partial explanation. The existing White Nationalist organizations are dominated by vanguardist sub-culture groups. Few Americans are interested in these sub-cultures. Thus, the existing organizations are too narrowly defined to attract a popular constituency, even among White Nationalists.

The obvious objection: why hasn’t someone created a more palatable White Nationalist organization? Why haven’t more people joined the mainstreamer organizations like EURO, CofCC, or EAU? These groups lack the esoteric trappings of the vanguardist organizations which are a turn off to lots of White Nationalists.

4.) Social PenaltiesWhite Nationalists are afraid of the social penalties that come with getting involved in the real world. It is one thing to be a drive-by anonymous revolutionary in cyberspace. It is another to have your real name on an unsecure membership list.

Response: Undoubtedly, I think everyone can agree this is the most important reason. White Nationalists are afraid of being outed. We live in a totalitarian society modeled on the USSR. White Nationalists who go public with their views can lose their jobs or face rejection by their friends and family.

This answer isn’t completely satisfying either. There are already plenty of White Nationalist activists. There are lots of public figures who chose this path over more lucrative options in the private sector. Look at Jared Taylor, a Yale graduate, who spends his time running American Renaissance.

5.) Not Enough MediaWhite Nationalists don’t have enough media. We don’t have enough good ideas. We need more websites to reach more people. We need an intelligentsia – for example, a North American New Right – to guide the movement to victory.

Response: There is certainly no harm in reaching more people. There is nothing wrong with elevating the level of discourse that prevails in our circles either. We’re trying to reach more people with this website. That’s our primary objective.

However, this alone is clearly not enough. We’re already reaching hundreds of thousands of Americans. We have a “hardcore nucleus” of 30,ooo White Nationalists and a potential base of millions in the South. Yet the existing White Nationalist orgs have a combined membership of 5,000 if we are generous.

What’s the point of creating more websites, having more discussions, debating more ideas, convincing more people we are right … if no one acts on their beliefs to change our circumstances in the real world?

6.) Negative ImageWhite Nationalists have a negative public image. When the mental image of “White Nationalists” comes to mind, it is associated with violent fanatics, conspiracy theorists, and costume fantasists.

Response: Admittedly, this turns people away. This negative image even tars the organizations which hardly fit this stereotype. There are groups who don’t remotely fit this description though. Why don’t people join those groups and create the dynamism necessary to change our public image?

7.) InfightingWhite Nationalists can’t get along. There is too much infighting in the movement. Look at the National Alliance. It was brought down by its own members and leadership, not the “ZOG” in Washington. I don’t want to join a hopelessly dysfunctional organization that has no reasonable chance or changing our dire racial circumstances.

Response: If anyone knows about the infighting that plagues this movement, it is yours truly. I have lots of net enemies who antagonize me no matter what I do. Recently, I confronted Jeffrey Imm (R.E.A.L.) in Washington about the discrimination he advocates against pro-Whites in employment and public accomodations. I was not surprised to learn that I was attacked (yes, attacked) by other White Nationalists for doing this.

The solution to the infighting is to quarantine the destructive types and ignore the organizations that do nothing but attack other White Nationalists. Everyone who has been involved in this movement for any significant period of time has made enemies. That hasn’t deterred them from getting involved in the real world. Why should it deter anyone else?

8.) Z.O.G.If I join a White Nationalist organization, the Z.O.G. will crush me and send me to prison like Matt Hale and Bill White.

Response: Z.O.G. doesn’t bother Jared Taylor because he runs a perfectly legal publication. He doesn’t harass anyone. He doesn’t engage in violence. As far as I know, Jared has never had any problem with law enforcement.

I’ve never had any problem with law enforcement either. OD is merely a website. I have every right to post my opinions on the internet. The people in this movement who get in trouble with the law are usually victims of their own stupidity or carelessness.

What distinguishes White Nationalist activists from White Nationalist keyboard commandos?

I’ve given this a lot of thought. For years, I was a keyboard commando, but that is no longer the case. I know lots of White Nationalists in real life now. This includes the best and brightest in the movement.

I didn’t get involved sooner because many of the reasons listed above. None of the existing organizations were particularly attractive. They didn’t look like they were going anywhere. I was demoralized by the vicious infighting that followed the demise of the NA as a credible organization. Also, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to stick my neck out either for a lost cause, especially one that has personally caused me so much grief.

Why do some people have the courage of their convictions whereas others do not? The answer is character. This is what distinguishes many of the people I have met in real life from others. A man with character doesn’t only grasp the awful abstract truth of our tragic racial decline. He decides to do something about it.

Character is the root of all our problems. An old republican would have laughed at the theory that a vicious mob could ever maintain a republic indefinitely. He would reply that we are losing our freedom and independence because we have lost the moral qualities necessary to maintain them.

Why do White Nationalists dream about a total economic collapse of the United States?

Because the character of White Americans has been so rotted by luxury that it is the only conceivable scenario in which they would rebel against the status quo.

Why do White Nationalists spend so much time infighting?

Because some of the people in this movement have a vicious temperament, a character flaw, which causes them to take pleasure in the pain and misfortune of others.

Why is Jewish media influence so damaging to the cause of White racial preservation?

Because the media is used to undermine and weaken the character and resolve of White men and White women to live normal, healthy lives in sustainable communities.

Why are White Nationalists so intimidated by Z.O.G.?

Because they lack the character and fortitude of their pioneer and Confederate ancestors who overcame far more difficult obstacles.

Why are White Nationalists so intimidated by the social penalties associated with White Advocacy?

Because they prioritize living a comfortable middle class life over their belief in White racial preservation and the future of their descendants.

If White Nationalists dislike the existing organizations, why don’t they create superior alternatives?

Because that involves taking risks and it is hard, but not impossible, to build an organization from scratch, and it is a thankless task to boot.

Why are White Nationalists deterred by Neo-Nazis from getting involved in the real world?

Because they care more about snobbery and status concerns – the thought that their neighbors might associate them with some Neo-Nazi or Klansman – than the future of their race and nation.

Why do the hundreds of thousands of White Nationalists who get race and completely agree with us on the need to create a White ethnostate to ensure our future survival on this continent refuse to get involved?

Because grasping an abstract truth and doing something about it are two completely different things. The former only requires the intellectual capacity to discern the truth, which is in abundance, whereas the latter requires moral qualities which are sadly in short supply.

Imagine the follow scenarios:

1.) In the first scenario, White Nationalists have an absolutely brilliant underground intelligentsia of writers and intellectuals. Would that alone lead to White Revolution? Probably not.

2.) In the second scenario, the United States economy collapses. Would White Nationalists seize power anywhere? Probably not.

3.) In the third scenario, White Nationalists control the media. Would that inspire the masses to rise up and create a White ethnostate? Probably not. Racial attitudes take time to change. It took decades of brainwashing for a majority of Whites to approve of interracial marriage.

4.) In the fourth scenario, White Nationalists create the long sought perfect organization and find a brilliant, dynamic leader like Adolf Hitler. Would White Nationalists win? Probably not.

5.) In the fifth scenario, White Nationalists are men of impeccable character, morals, and discipline. White America is magically restored to pristine moral health. Would the present system be sustainable? No, it would collapse overnight.

Character is the most decisive factor. If White Americans were men of character, they would either do something to change our situation, or they would never have allowed our country to degenerate to this point in this first place. If the White Nationalist movement was full of men of character, there would be no infighting and thriving organizations would exist in every state of the Union.

White Nationalists can win. History shows that a determined minority can dominate a much larger majority. We are dominated by such a group in our own times. That group maintains its dominance by progressively pushing the envelope to weaken our character to the point where we are submissive and deterred from fighting back.

The only way to secure a White ethnostate is to restore to White men the tougher moral qualities of our ancestors. We have plenty of people who understand and agree with White Nationalism. Sadly, we have too few who are willing to build the necessary institutions in real life.

About Hunter Wallace 12381 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent


  1. I think the main reason that social & political suppression works harder on WNs than on communists for example is that WN attracts ‘pro-family’ people, people who have a wife and children, or hope to some day, and think it is the man’s duty to provide for the family. Obviously, one can’t do this if one is labeled a ‘neo-nazi’ or ‘white supremacist’ with perhaps a criminal record to go along with it. Communists, of course, aren’t interested in families, and religious zealots don’t care if they die even.

  2. Z.O.G. doesn’t bother Jared Taylor because he runs a perfectly legal publication. He doesn’t harass anyone. He doesn’t engage in violence. As far as I know, Jared has never had any problem with law enforcement.

    Jared Taylor can’t hold a conference, he’s been physically attacked in Canada, and the hotels had to deal with death threats and threats from their suppliers. I would call that a problem.

    Also, when Jeffrey Imm is discussed, why are his FBI and ADL ties never mentioned? That’s the only important thing about him. On the radio HW said he thought Imm was a “true believer” but I have to disagree. I don’t think he believes anything he says, he is assigned to us for disruption and distraction. Nobody – not Imm, not anybody – takes the “choose love not hate” thing seriously.

    “Why are White Nationalists so intimidated by Z.O.G.?”

    Because if you are middle class, they will take your job. In a modern economy it’s quite difficult to make a living by yourself; anything complex takes an organization. And any organization that excludes Jews, or even tries to avoid being run by them, faces legal attack. Imagine a simlpe WN business and the reaction of the IRS, much less the EEOC. This is the reality.

    HRW’s point about family men vs. non-family oriented left communists is spot on. I’ve met a ton of leftist activists in my life and virtually none could be described as “family men” and even the women were decidedly not the family type. I know there’s a few trad Catholics that read these sites, I can imagine the celibate priests are in a perfect position to be a vanguard so to speak, but I don’t consider that likely.

    This is serious business, and unfortunately Jews are more serious than us. Case in point? Jewish schools. They have security that would make the NSA envy. Whites don’t even think about it.

    “Character is the most decisive factor.”

    If there were a cadre of White men willing to dedicate their lives to the cause, up to and including years in prison, we’d be unstoppable. Because if you are a serious threat to them, it doesn’t matter if you are 100% legal, dedicated to Gandhi-like non-violence, wear a suit and tie and use polite speech all the time, they’d just make something up and send you to prison anyway.

    We can win and I think it’s inevitable that we will, it’s a matter of how long it takes and at what cost.

  3. It’s tempting to attack the keyboard commandos, but ultimately it is misplaced. The internet is, far and away, the most powerful medium that we have available to us at the present time. Without the keyboard commandos, we would lose even that to the opposition.

    We need MORE keyboard commandos, not fewer. We should be encouraging people to take the time to spread our message far and wide, rather than insulting them. It is a largely thankless task, but it is a necessary one. Insulting them is senseless.

    I realize that the lack of real world organizing can be frustrating to some, but the reality is that we are still at the idea dissemination stage, and the internet is perfect for that. Will the keyboard commando be sufficient to win us a white nation? Of course not. But the keyboard commando is critical at this stage in the game.

    As I’ve said many times before, it is only fairly recently that there has been a true wealth of white nationalist media online. But yes, we need more. Lots more. We can be better. We shouldn’t just be reaching a few hundred thousand people, we should be reaching several million. Once you reach that point, I guarantee that you will start to see physical, real world manifestations of white nationalism.

    The formula is simple: a movement must disseminate its ideas first, the physical manifestations in the real world come later.

    Those people who are so situated and so inclined should attempt real world organizing. There will probably be a lot of failures, but some of it may work out. Once the ideas are spread far and wide, there will be fewer failures and more success stories. But those who do this must realize that everyone is not similarly situated, and many people simply cannot get involved in real world activism.

    Point is, there is room for a wide variety of activism. All sorts of people have their role to play. At this point in the game, however, keyboard commandos are extremely important. There will come a time when they won’t be nearly so important, but that’s a bit up the road.

  4. I have had a fairly successful career, and, I have always been up front with my views on race & religion.

    The thing I don’t care for about the internet, is that you have too many agents, anti’s, & assholes snooping around. It’s one thing to be known locally, statewide, regionally, even nationally in your industry, and another thing to get blindsided by some asshole in another part of the country because of something on the internet.

    You could put an advertisment in a major newspaper, and the opposition would know less about it—than if you post it on the internet on certain websites. Seriously.

  5. Trainspotter,

    No one is dismissing the importance of using the internet to disseminate our message. Everyone who writes for this website is a “keyboard commando.” The goal here has always been to expand our media presence while doing more stuff in the real world.

    Persuasion isn’t entirely effective though. The problem we are facing now is that we have successfully persuaded hundreds of thousands of Americans that White Nationalism is a wonderful idea, but there is no follow up action in the real world.

    That’s why nothing ever gets off the ground. The years fade into each other. People grow pessimistic and drop out of our ranks convinced that nothing will ever change.

  6. Responding to #5: the reason we need more websites is because the internet is nodal not linear. We assume because we’re on the web that everyone will see us, but that isn’t at all how the internet works.

    A couple of years ago we ran one of the biggest anti-illegal immigration blogs going, and every time we were in, say, DC for a lobbying effort people who were avid readers of anti-illegal immigration blogs would not know who we were.

    I’m not being arrogant like “why don’t these dang peons know who we are?” Rather, the idea is, these were people who as soon as they were introduced to our blog loved it to pieces, and even though they read dozens of blogs every day, and searched out stories and blogs about illegal immigration, hadn’t heard of ours. Even though we consistently ranked in the top five for several years (via TTLB).

    I prefer to think of the interwebs as a series of neighborhoods (I am a Chicago boy after all!) and the vast majority of people will never venture out of their little internet neighborhood. So instead of assuming they’ll come to us we need to come to them with a bunch of different styles and types of WN blogs for newbs and old timers, long form and snark to draw people in to the movement.

    And we need everything from more serious blogs like this one to sillier ones like mine where my goal is to make people spew chocolate milk out of their nose and onto their monitor while telling racial truths.

    That’s why we need more blogs and websites.

    I do agree that we need more real world activists but remember that the anti-illegal immigration folks in California were alone and on their own for thirty years before things like the Minutemen and NumbersUSA took off.

    So we should assume that there will be a groundswell at some point and be asking ourselves how we will capitalize on it when it occurs.

    I always thought one of the greatest failures of the Minutemen was the lack of a second act.

  7. Also, on the subject of media bias and money the anti-illegal immigration movement really does provide some clues as to the limits of those things. We were always wildly outspent and needless to say the media was on the other side, yet they were never able to move the needle one iota, not one.

    The truth is that money and media bias in the service of some issue that is hateful to the people is actually a boon to our cause. It will harden public opinion against every single time. Kievsky always likes to talk about weaponizing your mind, this is a bit like that.

    Like in guerrilla warfare we need to remember that powerful and rich equal fat and slow. We are the guerrillas here so we have the advantage, though this is only obvious if you understand guerrilla warfare.

    Something we need to focus on is memetics, we need to be pumping catchy phrases out into the public square that can go viral. one of the ones I’m most proud of from our anti-illegal immigration days is “100% Preventable!”

    I see that one pop up consistently enough in newspaper comments sections to send a Chris Matthews style thrill down my leg.

    While money would be nice what we should really worry about is honing the message because our time will come but will we be ready for it?

  8. Like VVD above, I’d like to address point #8 as well:

    ” If I join a White Nationalist organization, the Z.O.G. will crush me and send me to prison like Matt Hale and Bill White.”

    -Putting your name on a WN membership list is a really bad idea. One of the WN groups (I believe it was VNN-not sure though) had its entire membership list compromised and made public on the net by a female plant and this, of course is causes problems for each and every member on that list (and his or her family). What organization does not keep such a list? And the Federal agencies love getting their hands on those lists. BTW; real revolutionary groups do not have “membership lists”. They are organized in cells of just 3 to 5 people with only one of those knowing one member of another cell. This, for obvious reasons.

    “I’ve never had any problem with law enforcement either”
    -so far! You can be sure that this and all other WN websites are “monitored”. Yeah, yeah; I know, I’m paranoid, right? If so, then I have to wonder why ZOG wants “hate speach” laws enacted as well as legislation to censor the internet (already exists in Europe and Australia, by the way).
    “I have every right to post my opinions on the internet.” For now, you do. The dismantling of our “consitutional rights” has been a slow and piecemeal endeavor up until G.Bush junior’s Patriot Act. With that, the constitution has been basically nullified and with Elena Kagan in the Supreme Court, you can watch as what’s left of them are eliminated at a rapid pace. So it is only a matter of time until your point #1 includes the internet as well, thus making point #2 (keyboard commandos) moot as well.
    Still, point #2 is to my mind, the crux of the entire problem-as a race, we Whites are reluctant to DO what is really necessary. We prefer to hide behind our computers and fantasize about “creating a WN”. That kind of change does not take place “democratically” or through “protest movements” (of the Tea Party, sign carrying kind). Chairman Mao said it best: “political power comes from the barrel of a gun”. And so, you are absolutely correct in you assessment of the root of the problem- the character issue, as you said:
    “Because grasping an abstract truth and doing something about it are two completely different things. The former only requires the intellectual capacity to discern the truth, which is in abundance, whereas the latter requires moral qualities which are sadly in short supply.” Indeed, I expect that all those billions of rounds of ammo that were sold in the past 2 years, along with the assault rifles in private hands will be meekly turned over to the police when they come around to collect them when private gun ownership is finally banned.

  9. I can see that from a certain standpoint, it may seem like not much has been happening in the WN movement, if you are looking at what has happened since the 1960s. From that perspective, there has possibly been negative progress, as on average, people were much more race aware and pro-White in the 60s and 70s than they are today. Earlier writers such as Revilo Oliver and Wilmot Robertson appear to have been very frustrated with how the movement was progressing (understandably).

    A major problem with igniting the movement in the past was that there was no real tangible effect or consequence for Whites that would motivate your average person to action. If you talk about becoming a minority in 60 years, and recommend doing something now to stop that, its not very motivating, because 60 years seems like a lifetime (and practically is). Whites are generally even-tempered, practical people, and its harder to rev most of them up about something that does not have practical application to their daily lives. People generally do not think with long time horizons, and the concerns of WN leaders (immigration, the third-worldization of the US and the influence of a foreign ethnic group) tended to be abstract in the past. These trends were not very evident to those living in the nation of the 60s, 70s and 80s, which was an America overwhelmingly White and prosperous. Oliver, Robertson and others were men ahead of their time, their warnings and predictions would and will indeed come to pass, but were so far off that people were not ready for what they had to say.

    But we are reaching a time when the far-seeing predictions of the forebears of the movement (most are now deceased) have come to fruition. The nation is steadily moving in a third-world, socialist direction. There is a saying, “all the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come”. I am convinced that this time is approaching (it wont arrive tomorrow, but will in the coming 1-3 decades). Popular discontent among Whites is increasing, White Americans do not like or want a third-world nation with socialist policies. They predictably flee non-White neighborhoods and are the base of the Republicans, Tea Party and Libertarian movements, which oppose socialism.

    I think that an eventual ethnostate for Whites is virtually inevitable. In the US, all races are overwhelmingly self-segregated, everyone naturally fears and distrusts other racial groups (basic human psychology is on our side). The nation is headed in a direction that most Whites really do not want to go. As the US moves closer in that direction, and Whites feel tangible consequences (economic chaos, being surrounded by non-Whites) Whites will become more and more upset, and the attraction of White Nationalism and separatism will grow ever greater.

    It is very important to remember that the creation of an ethnostate requires only a minority of Whites to succeed. Just 10% (20 million people) who were insistent, dedicated and obstinate enough for a long enough campaign could probably succeed. The most probable reaction of the US to one or more separatist states wanting to vote themselves out of the union (and causing a big, embarrassing international stink) would be to eventually have a referendum, similar to what happened in Quebec. It would take several years and lots of civil disobedience, protests, incidents and other excitement to achieve this, but the US (with a majority female vote) probably does not have the will and endurance to beat and jail a sizeable minority into submission (which would be very expensive).

    The task now is to dispense with the defeatism, and start laying the groundwork for a successful organization that can be built upon for the future.

  10. “Character is the most decisive factor.”

    This is true but back up one step. What led them to lose their character?

    The attitude of white people to ethno-nationalism has been turned on its head over the last 60 years. Before then they took it so for granted they did things like write “for our posterity” on constitutions without thinking to specify how that was to be maintained. They simply assumed it. Whereas nowadays they quaver at the very idea of ethno-nationalism. This didn’t happen naturally.

    I think it’s important to understand what Professor MacDonald says about the specifics of white nature, the specific weakness white people have to conditioning based on guilt and altruistic punishment.

    If you’re working on a construction site and you’re not pulling your weight then people will start verbally slapping you. If you’re in a social setting and you start being overtly ethno-centric then people will start verbally slapping you.

    We’ve been conditioned through media and education to believe white solidarity is bad for the group and so automatically act according to our group altruist nature even though it’s against our other instincts. 90% of WNs will be effected by this. The disinhibiting effect of the web dilutes it but doesn’t make it go away.

    When you see the character problem as being conditioned guilt then it all starts to make more sense – to me anyway – and instead of arguing with them you first undermine the guilt then argue.

    Or, equally viable, guilt-trip people so much in the other direction it outweighs the conditioned guilt.

    @The Man
    “Something we need to focus on is memetics, we need to be pumping catchy phrases out into the public square that can go viral.”

    Agree. Arguing with other WNs on the internet is one type of keyboard commando activity but taking ideas from that and then trying to spread them into the wild is another thing entirely. My usual one for non-WN environments, web or offline, is “anti-racism is just a codeword for anti-white.” I try to work that in whenever i can.

  11. 4.) Social Penalties
    6.) Negative Image

    Both of these are driven by the genocidal strain (call it fear of the werewolf).

    In the past, white leaders thought it prudent to import non-whites into white lands for labor, or to export our fighting stock to govern darkies in dark lands.

    In retrospect, both were simply the seeds of inevitable miscegenation and the eventual tragedy on both sides.

    The answer? Give them an offer they can’t refuse: A New Deal for North American darkies.

    Any white nation must do as the Chinese do, keep to their own lands and keep everyone else out of theirs. No more White Man’s Burden. If we quit giving our technology away to the darkies, and quit trying to “civilize” them in a few decades or at most one century our race would have an un-usurpable control

    OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE! (talk about lebensraum!)

    All this because some assholes wouldn’t pick their own cotton!

    We ought to seek out alliances with blacks: we help them gain total control over Africa, in exchange, they all go there permanently.

    As a byproduct we deprive China and India of precious resources they need to compete with the White World.

    Instead of casting aspersions on the war against Arabs in Darfur, we should be encouraging “pipe hitting” negros to go over there to fight for their home land.

  12. I wouldn’t be afraid to participate. When you can bring hundreds of people together quietly without a lot of noise on the internet, or other media, then you know you have arrived.

  13. Hunter Wallace: “No one is dismissing the importance of using the internet to disseminate our message.”

    On the contrary, I see people dismissing the importance of this all the time. Surely you don’t deny that? They don’t understand what stage we are in – assuming their motives are pure.

    Hunter Wallace: “Persuasion isn’t entirely effective though. The problem we are facing now is that we have successfully persuaded hundreds of thousands of Americans that White Nationalism is a wonderful idea, but there is no follow up action in the real world.”

    In a nation of over 300 million, hundreds of thousands seem to not be enough. Under certain circumstances it might be (if there were fewer penalties meted out by the System, etc.), but reality is plainly giving us feedback: for the time being, under the conditions that prevail in 2010, those numbers are not enough to inspire much real world activism. But I’ll tell you what they are enough for: creating more and better media and reaching more people, which is the obvious thing to do right now.

    We’ve got all this potential to reach other people, potential we haven’t remotely developed to the fullest…yet there is this Contingent of Moaners who insist that all is lost.

    I don’t know exactly how many people we are reaching, but hundreds of thousands seems a reasonable estimate. Whatever the number is, we should be reaching ten times that amount, and more as the message ripples out in diluted form, softening up the opposition and making our image less alien. Not everyone is going to be a fanatic, nor do they have to be. They do, however, need to get enough of our message so that we don’t appear to be aliens from Mars. “Oh yeah, those guys. I don’t agree with everything they say, but I guess they make a good point every now and then.” That sort of thing, instead of “Nazis!!!!!!! Evil Naziiiiiiiiisssssss!!!”

    Only recently has our online presence started to come into its own, and we have barely scratched the surface of our target market. We are at the early stages, nowhere near saturation. Now, if we were at saturation, and still nothing was being done in the real world, that would be a problem. We’ll cross that bridge if and when we come to it. But there is no reason to believe that such is the case, and every reason to believe that it’s not.

    If we were reaching ten times as many people, I guarantee that you would see far more real world manifestations of white nationalism. Again, reality is our guide: our ideas have not spread far enough – at least under the present conditions and circumstances. Until they do, we will have limited success in real world organizing. This is nothing to moan and groan about, it is simply the stage of development that we are at. All movements go through this. To hell with the Cassandras, who are in effect attempting to strangle the baby in the crib.

    The reason “Why We Lose” is very simple: we haven’t reached enough people yet. The good news is this is something that is well within our power to remedy.

  14. wandrin said:
    “We’ve been conditioned through media and education to believe white solidarity is bad for the group and so automatically act according to our group altruist nature even though it’s against our other instincts. 90% of WNs will be effected by this. The disinhibiting effect of the web dilutes it but doesn’t make it go away.

    Wandrin touches on something important. In general, we have allowed our collective identity to be redefined against us — I wrote about this here
    http://lesacred.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/on-a-civilization-and-some-dwarves/ — The old positive white identity has been replaced with a negative one; Antiwhite has become the new white identity, an identity with many now defend tooth and nail. It was quite an inversion. For many, overcoming this anti-identity takes a Nietzschean effort. You are not just fighting you. You are fighting the white liberal, “conservative,” and “anti-racist” down the street for the heart of whiteness. I have no idea how one undermines (or overcomes) this anti-identity. Humor, anger — anti-racist anonymous clubs. However, Hunter is surely right — a certain fortitude and character is needed to punch on through the perversity and re-establish a healthy culture of whiteness.

  15. Hunter, another point or two. For one thing, you’ve done a great job in building Occidental Dissent up. That’s just the sort of thing that needs to be done at this stage in our struggle.

    Secondly, as for people dropping out of the movement, well, welcome to the Rules of the Universe. There is going to be attrition, all movements have this. All of them. White nationalism is no exception. But many, perhaps most of those people will come back when things get rolling, just like other movements are able to energize their base at a certain point. It’s just in the nature of things.

    And I guess that’s the point that I’ve been trying to make: we are not exempt from the rules of the universe, the rules of politics, or reality in general. Attrition is a fact of life, long odds are a fact of life, everything that we face is a fact of life. We aren’t exempt, and nobody else is either. Other movements have succeeded under far worse conditions than we face (as bad as those conditions are) We need to understand the stage that we’re at, accept the facts of life, and work on doing as well as we can while we are in this stage. If we do that, and do it well, the next stage will follow just as night follows day.

  16. @Chuck
    “I have no idea how one undermines (or overcomes) this anti-identity. Humor, anger — anti-racist anonymous clubs.”


    1.Discredit the figure of authority: the cult leader
    2.Present contradictions (ideology vs. reality): “How can he preach love when he exploits people?” is an example.
    3.The breaking point: When a subject begins to listen to the deprogrammer; when reality begins to take precedence over ideology.
    4.Self-expression: When the subject begins to open up and voice gripes against the cult.
    5.Identification and transference: when the subject begins to identify with the deprogrammers, starts to think of him- or herself as an opponent of the cult rather than a member of it.

    The figure of authority in this case is the multicult ideology and its priesthood: teachers, politicians, media and you undermine it through contradictions. Deprogram first, then argue about WN.

    “However, Hunter is surely right — a certain fortitude and character is needed to punch on through the perversity and re-establish a healthy culture of whiteness.”

    Sure, once you’ve got out of the grip of the prevailing ideology.

    Also, if you accept the guilt premise then if you have a bunch of people who are openly WN online then by definition they are partially deprogrammed so guilt-tripping them over something like lack of character could work to tip them over into open activism.

  17. Hunter—-You are young enough that you could have all kinds of ball teams & a golf league. LOL. No better way to get together.

  18. Very good suggestion, Tom! I am thinking a Softball Team/League would help.

    I also suggest starting a WN Organization for charity. We could gain support, helping White Children and local communnities. The Ku Klux Klan was very much involved with the local churches, before the Civil Rights Era made White Preservation taboo!

  19. Most whites in America today are still Fat, Stupid, and Happy. Not, in another words, WNs. Soon enough, they will still be stupid, but no longer fat and happy. Then they will be available for hardright mobilization. As for WN, we’ll just see how whites BEHAVE collectively when ZOG collapses. If they earn a whites-only ethnostate, they’ll get it. Canada, for instance….all that snow and ice. Truly Nordic. Otherwise, the new regime might resemble – can’t recall the poster here, but thanks for the phrase – “an anti-Jewish rainbow coalition”. I like it.

  20. “when reality begins to take precedence over ideology.”

    I understand that there was much evidence that pointed in a direction that indicated somewhere between about a quarter and half the people at Jonestown must have tried to break from the Kool Aid line at the last minute when reality set it and at that point were forced rather than submitted to the poisoning.

  21. Re win/lose: if the analysis is faulty or out-and-out wrong, so will be the action, ergo so will be the consequence. All the character in the world will not overcome a wrong analysis. It was for such a reason that “effective” replaced “efficient” in the corporate world in around the early 90’s. It dawned on some bright wag: It is very easy to do all the wrong things very efficiently.

    As relates to the WN movement, I would suggest to not sweat the small stuff. The “movement” is in the birth canal; it is not even yet born. As with any other “movement”, if it does not make a legitimate jump in time to the political, then it is just another flash in the pan…much like the liberal and self-absorbed sixties.

    At the core, with all of the socio-political fuses currently burning, options for conduct can be generalized down to two: reactionary or revolutionary. I would suggest that the WN movement has been, and still is, bogged down in the former. “What must be done” is a condition that is yet latent when there are no other choices.

    An example to back the argument. A somewhat serious discussion of secession is finally entering the WN dialogue. All in all, this is good, but stunted in the reactionary. It is an impossibility to be an “American” secessionist. Please ponder that…or not. The White secessionist dialogue clutches at jingoistic phantoms dancing upon a way of life that can never again be. It is backward looking, as opposed to forward looking.

  22. “Why do White Nationalists dream about a total economic collapse of the United States?

    Because the character of White Americans has been so rotted by luxury that it is the only conceivable scenario in which they would rebel against the status quo.”

    Exactly. It so happens that the waning of white protestant influence in the country occurred right alongside of perhaps the greatest explosion of material affluence that the world has ever known. Here in the US the generation who grew up during the depression and fought World War II is often referred to as the Greatest Generation. Each and every generation which came after is generally thought (correctly, I think) to trail this generation with respect to “character”.

    The logical conclusion of that observation? It is, of course, that adversity creates character.

    What does this mean for our interests? I can interpret it in two ways, both negative and positive.

    Negatively, it means that the current American citizenry lack the character necessary to stand up for their interests, due to their coddled upbringing. This will not radically change overnight.

    Positively, it means that as the economic and cultural situation continues to deteriorate, greater and greater numbers of those same citizens will experience real adversity. Greater character, and hence a reinvigorated movement, will result.

  23. Like everyone else has said; and I personnally feel the attack on ‘ Keyboard Wn’s’ is a ploy or could be used as a ploy to get WN’s out in the open. The reality is we are weak and few, would quickly be feed to the controlled media to show the liberal-Christian world why they must aid the minority.
    Whites will survive in a Nights Templar secret kind of societies, and no other way. Open organization is not going to be ignored by the 90% of the non-white world.

  24. Hunter Wallace: “No one is dismissing the importance of using the internet to disseminate our message.”

    Trainspotter: “On the contrary, I see people dismissing the importance of this all the time.”

    It might be relevant to note that Senator Lie-berman wants a kill switch for the Internet.




  25. That’s right. We need to stop being keyboard commandos and start being men of tremendous character like the guys at CofCC who refuse to criticize Jews at their little conferences.

  26. Reader,
    You must have stepped out to do something productive with yourself during Merlin Miller’s exposition of his ambitious and realistic effort to create a first-rate movie about the attack on the USS Liberty. You must have also stepped out during one of the other numerous times that the topic was broached.

  27. I’m a lurking WN sympathizer who is probably too liberal to ever be accepted as a WN, so perhaps my comments won’t be welcome here… but I can’t resist.

    “#6 Negative Image” tells most of the story of “Why We Lose.”

    Most people haven’t even heard the term “white nationalist.” To them, you are scary racist neo-nazis, skinheads, rednecks, KKK members who espouse an utterly irredeemable message of hate and bigotry and evil, or whatever.

    I don’t see many people fitting that description here on OD or on many other WN sites, but honestly, as much of a sympathizer as I am, there are other WN sites like Stormfront for example, where that image isn’t too far off.

    No matter how much sense white racial re-awakening might make in white people’s real lives, there’s a passel of cringe-inducing negs in today’s WN that are really hard to look past: racist epithet slinging is never going to seem like good clean fun to many people, holocaust revisionism is a big loser, conspiracy theory crap in general has got to go (like 9-11 truther stuff), as does a lot of far right obsessions with the Fed Reserve and so on. And it’s been mentioned many times by others: wearing nazi uniforms, obsession with the swastika, Klan robes, etc.

    As an outsider, to me that stuff represents the past of WN. A past which is a burden and which needs to be shed because it isn’t working in the present.

    Here’s what I think does work: focus on issues where people are already on our side, even if they don’t know it.

    Interracial crime is a winner. White people, especially white family people (and especially white women), feel the issue of interracial crime in their gut. Despite whatever indoctrination they’ve been fed in college about “institutional racism,” they know that there are entire sections of US cities where it is unsafe to walk down the street as a white person. Every day there are new examples of it. WN should be there. Stormfront actually does a good job of tracking it and exposing it.

    “Multiculturalism” is something that WN should also be scrutinizing and mocking. White people are uncomfortable with it intuitively, they just need to be able to articulate why. Again, it seems like every day there’s a new story which exposes the ludicrousness of the multicult project. WN should be right there pointing at it, laughing at it and hammering away at the message that “multiculturalism” and “diversity” are in essence anti-white. Another winner.

    Illegal immigration is the biggest winner by far. It works on so many levels. It points up the class differences between white elites and jewish elites who have sold out the white majority of this country in the name of cheap labor. It gets right at the heart of the changing demographics of the country. And when the enemy calls us racists for objecting, it lets us expose them as racists for wanting to race-replace us. I could go on. On a strategic level, WN doesn’t even have to deal with any other issue aside from illegal immigration if it didn’t want to, in order to make gains with the public. I mean, holocaust revisionism…. seriously? It should be illegal immigration 24/7/365.

    Enough for now, I think you get the drift. Change white nationalism’s image by shedding the old, scary stuff. Focus on making media which hammers away at messages where people are already on your side.

  28. WN Sympathizer makes alot of sense.
    Issue-oriented activism is probably the only activism that the common american white man can understand anyway.
    My usual approach these days is to slowly and nearly imperceptibly chip away at the psychic-armour (read: conditioning) of friends, relatives, friends of relatives and relatives of friends. The best medium I’ve found for this is the casual, family-oriented bbqs and pool-parties. Forging organic bonds of trust with people through friendship and example.
    I’ve never analysed the permanency of our effect on most of the people we ‘infect’, but I can say that we (my wife and I, mainly) have helped open our parents eyes to a large degree. As a very young child, I remember getting a sound intellectual thrashing for jokingly using the term ‘jungle bunny’ (something I heard from that steve martin movie: the Jerk), but now those self-same folks o’ mine are pretty much ready for a revolution.
    I’m not giving up my swastika obsession though.

  29. WN Sympathizer, good post. There are a few things that I would take issue with, but overall your sense of things is sound.

    We should be using these “winning” issues as an opportunity to make one simple point: whites have interests too, and it’s legitimate to defend them. We need to hammer away on that one point, as it is the great taboo right now. Once we can break that taboo, an awful lot will be possible. Right now we have a political culture in which not one politician, not a single one, is willing to openly state that whites are a people with interests. Pretty amazing when you think about it, and positively Orwellian. But once we pass that obstacle, much else will come crashing down with it.

    Would achieving this be sufficient to get us where we ultimately need to go? No. But it would be a helluva start. Start where people are, and then create an attractive path on which they can get where they need to be. Most websites, in contrast, hit people with the full monty right off the bat, which is going to strike most people as utterly alien and absurd.

    In fact, it would probably be good for some of us “keyboard commandos” to experiment with this. On non-WN boards, just hammer home this one simple message. Don’t get drawn into any complex explanations, don’t get into any of the more controversial points, don’t talk about Jews – just:

    “Gee, white people have interests too. That’s all I’m saying.”

    Nazi! Racist!

    “No, that’s not true. I’m just saying that whites are a people, that’s all.”

    Repeat, repeat, repeat.

    Don’t get drawn into a full conversation, don’t offer a complex defense. Just a simple man with a simple message, by golly. I’ll bet it would be fairly effective.

  30. holocaust revisionism is a big loser, conspiracy theory crap in general has got to go (like 9-11 truther stuff), as does a lot of far right obsessions with the Fed Reserve and so on.

    Well I wouldn’t worry about it. There’s no one on this site that rejects what the Jewish media told them about 911, and the actual 911 Truth movement doesn’t want anything to do with you nazis and racists in the WN movement. That would make us look bad.

    And of course, the anti-Federal Reserve movement – a huge and increasingly mainstream political movement, wants nothing to do with you nazis and racists either. Let’s face it – most WN organizations can barely balance their checkbooks, much less be able to read a college freshmen textbook on monetary policy and discuss it recently. Enough with the conspiracy theories about “creating money out of thin air!” That’s crazy talk!


    We really should focus on black street crime. That makes is very clear the level we’re operating on. That’s our enemy – black thugs.

    Also, I’s suggest strong support for Israel too. Who knows if we beg enough they might allow us on TV!

  31. Think about it – the 911 Families, the engineers in AE911Truth, writers like Paul Craig Roberts, Alan Sobrowsky, the folks at the USS Liberty show theuglytruth.podbean.com, FEDUP_USA, the Ron Paul movement, the goldbugs, the Austrian economists – all of these people are trying desperately to make sure no one thinks they are a bunch of racists, White Nationalists, and neo-KKKs – like you guys.

    So let the great mutual purge begin. It’s really, really obvious which side will wind up with a larger team.

    But you’ll have JewAmongYou, so take heart WNs!

  32. VVD,
    First of all, you’re being deliberately deceptive in conflating the Anti-Semite Lite narrative of 9/11 with the Anti-Semite Deluxe narrative. Ron Paul, Matt Parrott, and the overwhelming majority of people here ascribe to the Lite version, in which America’s entanglements in the Middle East due to the Israel Lobby are a key reason we got attacked. When you deliberately muddle the two, as you just did, you give credence to the Lavon Affair-style false flag scenario which has vanishingly little support or evidence.

    You keep beating us over the head with insults, but never links to credible sources.

    Second of all, it’s a matter of focus and priority. Your entire premise, that a damn thing would change if we agreed with you on this issue, is obviously bogus. Look at the Iraq War. We know, for a fact, that we were led into that war by agents of the Israeli government with falsified documents as part of a well-documented plot. That’s all been thoroughly documented by credible academics, understood by most thinking people, and disseminated by multiple presidential candidates in multiple venues.

    Was there a “Remember the Yellow Cake?” Nope. Did the people storm the capitol over that? Nope. They stormed the capitol over some stupid wonkish healthcare nonsense in defense of Big Pharma.

    I cringed when I read that comment above, for many of the same reasons you did. I agree with you that trying to be “serious” and “respectable” in our enemy’s context is a mug’s game sure to keep us politically impotent. But I promise you that if they found a photo of Joe Lieberman descending in a parachute in the backdrop of the towers collapsing, proving that he personally flew a plane into WTC, it wouldn’t accomplish what you’re thinking it would accomplish.

  33. You keep beating us over the head with insults, but never links to credible sources.

    Of course I’m not linking to credible sources. That would be off topic. I’m not linking to any sources about 911. Nor am I getting into any technical debates with people who haven’t even read the 911 Commission report. All I’ve stated is my opinion a few times.

    And when people to try denounce “911 conspiracies” as if that’s the reason why WN is marginalized, I call them out on it.

    The 911 attacks are *still* to this day being used to justify attacking Israel’s enemies. When the Iraq lies were found out – support for the war in Iraq dropped significantly among the public. In fact, the Iraq Study Group even forced a change in military and civilian leadership (another publication 99% of WNs haven’t read.)

    the Lavon Affair-style false flag scenario which has vanishingly little support or evidence.

    That’s simply false. The exactly opposite is true, after years of the “Lite” version being peddled around, the Lavon Affair style is getting more and more support and more and more evidence is being discovered.

    Obviously the focus of WN is not going to be 911 Truth – but should it be anti-911 Truth? Because some keep saying “purge anyone who says otherwise!”

    The idea should be this – when someone knowledgeable says something about 911 – and you don’t know anything about it – it’s best to shut up and listen, as opposed to blather about purging “conspiracy theories.”

    As for what kind of Whites will be useful in the movement – I’d rather take those who have read the 911 Commission report, and the Iraq Study Group report, and who even know about the Lavon Affair – to a bunch of people bitching yet again about what some ghetto nigga does.

    White people already know about black street crime – that’s why we have White flight. What they don’t know about is who is causing it. Same with the wars.

    Since Obama there’s been 4 fake “terrorist” incidents that completely fell apart. The longer the denial about 911 goes on, the longer the denial about *current events* goes on.

    The past is never dead. It’s not even past. Those who control the past, etc.

  34. Oh … and “Anti-Semite Lite” vs. “Anti-Semite Heavy”?

    What does “anti-semite” have to do with 911? Pointing out what Israel *does* is not “anti-semitic.” Stop using the enemy’s language. I’m not “anti” anything, I’m pro-White and pro-Truth.

  35. Layers

    Different people are at different levels of radicalization (or none) and there is *no* single message that can work.

    A message that was moderate enough to pull large numbers of mainstream people in our direction would be too moderate.

    A message that would get us what we want is too extreme for the mainstream.

    So there has to be multiple messages aimed at different audiences aiming to radicalize people in stages.

    Instead of arguing over *which* message is best (which is all of them and none) WNs need to pick a niche that suits them and then work on the people in that niche using a message tailored for that niche – in other words we should be trying to build a hydra not a dragon.

    For an extreme and counter-intuitive example: A person who was originally part of the left and slowly self-radicalized into a WN could go back into that milieu and **** with them. The enemy doesn’t believe in the multicult but a lot of their stooges do and the stooges believe the liberal part can coexist with the multicult part i.e things like gay rights, women’s rights, capital punishment etc. It’s pretty easy if you come from that background to demoralize them over this because:

    the multicult says non-white cultures are sacrosanct
    elements of those cultures contradict liberal values
    the population that holds those values is constantly growing

    You can’t neccessarily turn them into WNs or even conservatives but you can make them more unsure and therefore more neutral.

    Similarly with things like 911 theories. There’s a whole sub-culture related to stuff like that in which a WN could delve picking and promoting theories that somehow fitted in with WN (by undermining people’s faith in the official news).

    On the other hand if you’re talking to mom and pop you want to avod anything leftist or truther and focus on bread and butter issues like immigration control.

    Theoretically the same person could do all three. They could have one website with everything jumbled together that would annoy the leftists, the truthers and mom and pop all at once or they could have three separate websites, three separate personas and spend 1/3 of their time worrying gay people about sharia law, 1/3 of the time spreading secession through conspiracy theory and the last 1/3 volunteering for an immigration restriction pressure group.

  36. VVD,
    I was simply using language that would get the point across – that most of us who are AS/Jew-wise/Judeophobic/Whatever already generally agree on what I called the “Lite” version.

    But I suppose the problem here isn’t what you’re actually saying. It’s that you incessantly bitch with this obnoxiously angry tone, in a way guaranteed to prejudice people against the content of your speech, on the same subject.

    The guy shown above is obviously not as far along on these things as we are. I think he’s heading in the right direction and that it would be wise to welcome him and try to educate him on the issues he could apparently do to learn more about. But you’ve just bullied and insulted him, just like you bully and insult everybody else who trips over one of your pet fixations.

  37. Veni Vidi Dixi wrote:
    There’s no one on this site that rejects what the Jewish media told them about 911…

    Why don’t you write about it?

  38. VVD,

    “There’s no one on this site that rejects what the Jewish media told them about 911…”

    I already think they’re engaged in an ongoing attempt to genocide the entire white population of the planet. I can’t get any more hostile than i already am.

    So for me the only relevance of 911 is how can i use it politically and the sort of people i mostly go after are put off by that kind of stuff so i don’t use it.

    However i know there are audiences out there who are interested in that kind of thing and if i was targeting them i’d use it.

    I think the conflict on a site like this is there’s a difference between trying to convince WNs of 911 stuff (which makes it about 911 and not WN) and trying to convince WNs how 911 stuff can be used politically.

  39. Wandrin: “Instead of arguing over *which* message is best (which is all of them and none) WNs need to pick a niche that suits them and then work on the people in that niche using a message tailored for that niche – in other words we should be trying to build a hydra not a dragon.”

    True, and nice way of putting it. Not only are there different levels of racial understanding and support for the white nationalist cause, there are also different levels of opposition. For example, it’s a meaningful victory to move an opponent from “Racists are the most evil people on earth!” to “Well, I don’t really agree with white nationalists, but they do make a decent point every now and again…”

    For the time being, any movement in our direction is a good thing. Our goal is to improve the overall landscape, in addition to building a nucleus of full fledged white nationalists. Therefore, there is useful and meaningful work for all “octane levels.”

  40. The goal is the white ethnostate. Anything that softens opposition to that goal, or moves others closer to acceptance of that goal, is a win. There is no one way to do this.

    Every single person, no matter their place on the continuum, can be met where they are, and moved as much as possible in the right direction. Any movement in our direction at all, however modest, provides a net improvement in the landscape, and therefore in our prospects.

    It will only require a minority to win this thing, but that minority won’t be acting in a vacuum. Whatever can be done to improve the broader landscape in which that minority operates is extremely valuable.

  41. You lose because your god is False, do you really think that the white nationalist movement can save you or any of the white race, where is the true GOD in this graven image?
    When will the white race’s unify with the Jews under GOD and visa versa, you have the same enemies!
    When will the white people wake up and realise that this false god they have created called DEMOCRACY is their doom, all the races that hate you have used it to tear you down.
    But first all the enemies must first kill all the ungodly of the white/jewish race ie. all who harbour leftist views, all who think on the right, all who follow after DEMOCRACY the christmass keeper, the Sunday keeping christian and there are many more.
    Take note how DEMOCRACY is wearing down the state of Israel!
    Its incredible how it put a Canaanite as a ruler of America!
    It causes the world to praise and worship a man In South Africa that was once a terrorist but now a demi god. It forces you to accept homosexuality an abomination!
    It makes you feel guilty because you are white!
    But there are those that understand that this is the time of the gentiles and have escaped the mark DEMOCRACY has given to the decieved world.
    They are fearless and are waiting for the removal of the wicked of all races!

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