I suspect most of us posting on Occidental Dissent are looking to find a group of…..
nice White folks.
Sure, we have strong beliefs on political and social “issues” – but a main reason we are involved with White Nationalism is that we just want to belong to some group of nice White people – to be in a place where no one is yelling at us, lecturing us, insulting us, threatening us, trying to re-educate us, or incite our children to hate us. Let’s face it, when we turn on the television, go to a Hollywood movie or hang out with most Liberal Democrat groups, we don’t feel that we are among friends. We feel that we are in hostile places, with hostile people that hate us.
So where do we go to find a community of “nice people” that like us, that are “like us”?
One place I went was to:
the Mormon Church.
Though I knew something about the Mormon theology and the turbulent history of the Mormons (persecution, migration from the Mid West to Utah), what attracted me to the Mormon Church was that I noticed:
There sure are a lot of good looking, Mormon White folks!
And it is true that the Mormon Church, or (as they preferred to be called now) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints/LDS is a very White Church. It has a White racial history – Blacks were not allowed to hold the LDS Priesthood until the late 1970s and the Book of Mormon contains lots of passages that would be considered very “Racist” by today’s PC standards.
Another reason I decided to check out the Mormon/LDS church was that I came in contact with some bright, enthusiastic, well scrubbed, nicely dressed, White Mormon Missionaries, that were actually walking the streets of an inner city, university community I was living in at the time.
Sure, I wanted to check out the LDS church of “Donny and Marie Osmond”, the church of BYU University – I always noticed those very White BYU football and basketball teams giving the Black (criminally inclined) football and basketball college powers a good contest. When I was a public school teacher in Brooklyn, some of my Black students called me “BYU” because I looked like the White BYU basketball players they saw on TV.
After 10 years of association with Mormons and the Mormon/LDS Church I will share these observations.
1) Yeah, there are lot of really nice, good looking White folks in the LDS church – particularly in Southern California and the mountain/desert West.
2) Mormons are really good at getting young White couples to get married early (in college) and have large families, with really beautiful White children.
3) Mormons have lots of very good practices, rules – they are very good at organizing their members, giving them things to do.
4) You see little or no bad Leftist, anti White politics inside any LDS – Mormon Church. In fact the LDS church prohibits political campaigning in church, and that’s really nice – no preachy Leftists lecturing the congregation about the supposed sins of Racism or the last PC lib cause.
5) White Mormons are really good at sports – provide lots of opportunities for basketball, tennis, ultimate frisbee activities.
6) There is little or no LDS women (White) doing male bashing – Mormon women have lots of things to do in Church, but (White) men run the ceremonies and have the authority and Mormon women/LDS women seem very happy to have (White) husbands, children and accept their traditional female roles.
All those things I listed are very good. But it’s not perfect from a WN perspective.
The worst news is that the Mormons/LDS church has embraced the Christian mission to share the Mormon Gospel…..
With the entire world! The part in the New Testament about the Christian mission to “spread the gospel to all nations”, this type of thinking and acting really gets our White race/culture in to lots of trouble – and the Mormons are now doing just that, spreading their Mormon/Christian gospel to all nations (don’t worry the Muslims don’t let them in to their countries), but there are Jewish converts/conversos who I spot right away, and these Jewish Conversos seem to do what they do. LDS Sen. Harry Reid – the Dem Senate Majority Leader has a Jewish converso wife and I am sure she’s one of the reason he does terrible stuff like push through the ADL Federal Hate Crime Bill, work for amnesty for millions of hostile, non White illegal aliens etc.
Sadly, most Mormons/LDS church members in the world are no longer White. Hispanics really go for joining the LDS church in Central and Latin America – many see joining the LDS church as a way to join the nice, healthy, prosperous White American world. Lots of Pacific Islanders – huge Samoans join the LDS, Mormon Church. And Mormons tend to be very defensive about their controversial “RACIST” past and enjoy being more accepted by mainstream (liberal, Jewish, race mixing) American society.
Also, Mormons tend to not be very intellectual – choosing to being honest, have “family values” – they try to be nice and get along with everyone. So, don’t expect many White Mormons to get involved in contentious arguments with Jews over World War II, Communism etc. The current top Mormon – Prophet Monson, seems like a total, boring stiff.
Mormons seem to have no clue about “the Jews”, have no history of ever being in conflict with Jews as White Catholics from the old country have had. And since only terrible, close living with American criminal Blacks can turn a generally “nice” White person in to a RACIST against Blacks, most Mormon Whites are not going to want to fight, or be able to handle very hostile Black criminals. LDS Mormons have never lived in rough, racially mixed Northern Cities or the America South where there are lots of criminal, hostile Blacks. The Book of Mormon Plates were supposedly found in Up-State New York, the new church and their converts moved to the rural Midwest – Illinois, Ohio and Missouri then the church was brutally persecuted there and the Saints moved across the Plains to Utah… all these places were very, very White, and for the most part, they are still very White. Mormons tend to prosper and grow in White places.
So the downside is that White Mormons are generally doing pretty well these days and don’t like to rock the boat – they are patriotic Americans; while they were once being brutally persecuted by “America” and Mormons had virtually their own separate (all White) Mormon nation. Now the mainstream Mormon/LDS Church has gone “mainstream” and the Church is desperately trying to win the acceptance, approval of mainstream Christian churches like the Baptists, who hate the Mormon/LDS church, accuse it of being a non Christian cult, stupid squables like that.
I think most of us involved in American White nationalism would like for the Mormons or any White group to start thinking, working to separate themselves from very corrupt race mixed, Jew dominated America and stop being so patriotic and loyal to America. But mainstream Mormons aren’t going to do that now, as things stand.
But, Mormons haven’t give up all their independent old ways – as they teach very practical ways of self reliance, food storage, have their own social welfare system that provides food and jobs for their members in need.
I have had good success making friends and contacts in the Mormon church, but I don’t do open, White racial activism and know this would be a bad idea.
Instead, I simply am honest and give positive feedback to all the really good things White Mormons do. And when something comes up like the huge propaganda campaign to help/save all the poor, suffering Black victims of the earthquake in Haiti – I do share some words of caution, tell them that nice LDS folks should learn more about the historical realities of places like Haiti and not try to bring back every poor, diseased person from the Third World in to America. I also present the idea that America has lots of people here now that need help, and Mormons should consider sending their missionaries to places like rural Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, UP Michigan – learn to be as good at hockey as the Mormons are at basketball and football.
The Atlantic Magazine listed Mormons as the most “Conservative” religious community in the USA ( The Mormons: The Most Conservative Religious Group In America )
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/07/the-mormons-the-most-conservative-religious-group-in-america/22102/
So, it’s generally OK to work for Conservative political issues, campaigns that work OK/well for White Nationalists – same as Conservative politics from the Nixon/Reagan years tended to be White, more more favorable to our White people/culture than the Lib/Min/Leftists.
So there is lots of good news for racially conscious Whites in the Mormon church as it stands now in 2010 – the best being that White Mormons have the highest birth rate of any White group in America with the possible exception of the Amish.
And the main danger/problem with the Mormon church is the problem that all successful (White) Christian churches have: they want to go out and help, SAVE, every single non White person in the world, convert them, share the true gospel etc. This means suicide for our race if they actually do this in places like Nigeria, Haiti, El Salvador.
My take on this is that huge numbers of Mestizo Hispanics and Pacific Islanders will convert to the Mormon Church with the idea of crashing in to America/White Mormon society – but few Blacks will come in. The moral restrictions are too tough for almost all Blacks and also Blacks can’t sit still for 3 hours in calm, White Mormon church activities, Blacks like to jump around and shout in church and at the end of the day, even super nice White Mormon families don’t like to hang around large, Black urban areas – they won’t say they avoid the areas because they are “Racist” – they just want to be in a safe, child friendly community – and that’s not East St. Louis, Memphis.
So, to sum up this essay on the Mormons/LDS Church – I would say that if you are looking to be in/around a “Christian” church with lots and lots of very nice White folks – yes, check out the Mormon LDS Church. Be honest that you respect their pro family policies and their healthy activities and tell them you heard lots of positive things about Mormons being…
Nice folks.
The Mormon/LDS Church has many of the strengths and weakness of other once, prosperous, White Christian Churches. If you haven’t given up on “Church” – give the Mormon/LDS Church a try.
(And leave racial activism and most politics out of the LDS church buildings)
I have to agree. Mormons in general are some of the best, kindest and most decent people I have ever met in my life.
Rodger – to paraphrase Congressman Joe Wilson, you lie. First, Jesus Christ is fully acknowledged as the Son of God HERE. Second, we don’t promote man as a deity; instead, we believe that men who qualify for celestial glory with exaltation in the next world will be offered the opportunity to be ordained unto Godhood. And third, we believe salvation and exaltation work together; namely, salvation through faith, followed by exaltation through works.
Try actually visiting some official LDS websites and educating yourself before you mouth off about the LDS Church.
Have you had any experiences with the Fundamentalist Mormons? With their polygamy and anti-black hostility, I find them intriguing. Perhaps you were looking at the wrong Mormons! 😀
Ed the Department Head says:
September 19, 2010 at 12:57 am
>Have you had any experiences with the Fundamentalist Mormons? With their >polygamy and anti-black hostility, I find them intriguing. Perhaps you were looking at >the wrong Mormons!
Yes, I am familiar with Fundamentalist, plural marriage Mormons. And I noted that they were set up and persecuted by some Black woman in Colorado making a call to law enforcement in Arizona alleging detailed child abuse. So, yes I was on the White folks side there.
My take is that we should just leave these White plural marriage folks alone, maybe work with them a bit to clean up their public image a bit (ie not have the girls get married until say 16, not have huge differences in age between husband and wife). But they are something a regular college educated White guy without any prior relationship to such folks is not going to be able to do to get a decent, a few good White wives and children, a new White life.
And regular mainstream Mormons/LDS have nothing to do with plural marriage Mormon fundamentalists and will take the side of the government, just about anyone persecuting these people. Mainstream Mormons took and still take endless abuse about polygamy which has been banned in the church for well over 100 years.
Mormons are indeed good people. Probably too good. I have actually been considering dropping in, of a Sunday, at the local Mormon church, but unfortunately, where I live, the majority would likely be Filipino and Samoan. What I like about Mormonism is that it is truly American, with White American prophets and background. In this way it reminds me of Islam. Islam is a “religion of the book” that was nevertheless nationalized by Arabs. But when all is said and done I doubt I could overlook that famous Mormon need to be universally Good, with a capital G, the same pathology of all practicing Christians.
Proving yet again that a religion doesn’t have to be true to be effective.
Re: what comments get accepted/rejected
Hunter is coming up with a statement of guideline for comments. It should be ready in the next couple of days.
I will just say here that O.D. is going to be tightening up, cleaning up the comments section. We don’t want there to be personal flame wars, rambling comments that don’t specifically address the issues in the post. We don’t want O.D. to be exactly like Stormfront or VNN.
Instead we want the growing readership of O.D. to find excellent posts, graphics and then read smart, concise, humorous comments. We want O.D. to be a great place to come and see some of the best writing on this subject, from our point of view.
So comments that get published are going to be especially GOOD COMMENTS as more an more good/great people come here and submit comments, new essays.
It’s like the letters to the editor section of a good/great newspaper – the best letters/comments get published, not everything and have people complain that they were “censored”.
And the writer of the original post will generally get to make the call on what comments get published.
I hope that helps.
N. @ “Proving yet again that a religion doesn’t have to be true to be effective.”
A case can be made that all religions are “true” to the believer. There’s religious truth, and then there is objective, as in scientific, truth. The two truths don’t have much in common.
They really do seem like nice, attractive, decent folks. I can understand the attraction, but if you’re talking about joining their church so that you can be a part of their lives, in essence live that life, it seems like it would be impossible to do if you didn’t truly believe what they believe, and some of the things they believe seem truly nutty to me, though to be frank, no more so than other religions.
John says:
“They really do seem like nice, attractive, decent folks. I can understand the attraction, but if you’re talking about joining their church so that you can be a part of their lives, in essence live that life, it seems like it would be impossible to do if you didn’t truly believe what they believe, and some of the things they believe seem truly nutty to me, though to be frank, no more so than other religions.”
My advice is to not to not go to deep and get involved in hair splitting theological disputes. The Mormon/LDS folks are mostly really, nice, good White folks. Just show up, dress up according to Church standards, meet and greet lots of good LDS White folks and be honest – that you are happy to be with such nice, good people.
You will not be lying or trying some underhanded way to spread White RACISM – you will just be honest that you recognize, very good people, who just happen to be mostly our White kinsmen.
I’ll pass, yet another attempt to place words in a book above the people, in other words “wordism.” I have a little experience with Mormons, one was my history teacher back in Jr. high of the 1970s, genuine nice man, and great teacher, the only strange thing was that he and his wife, no children, not even adoptees. Second experience was in Jackson, Wy with some Jack Mormon hunting outfitters, tight lipped about Mormonism, but one of the guys along with his wife saved a boy from the streets of St. George, Utah since his fundie father drove him off, no doubt to keep the girls to his old decrepit self. So for all this evangelical fervor they supposedly have, they still act like a secret cult.
I was born and raised a Mormon, though I haven’t been in a church, apart from weddings, funerals or the occasional social function, in over 30 years. Nevertheless, though I lost the faith, I still consider them “my people”. My three daughters are active in the church, and two of them are BYU graduates.
This article is pretty much spot on. Mormons are mostly good people who build good communities. And they are slowly succumbing to the liberal rot. I was dismayed to see, on a visit to Utah last year, evidence of this; the most egregious example being a typical Mormon family, young couple about late twenties, with a string of about four beautiful White children – and one black one.
John is, however, correct. It’s not a religion that you can adopt casually. It’s not a matter of hair-splitting theological debates; the authority of the leadership derives from a belief in the claims made by the founder, Joseph Smith. He claimed to have had various visions that led him to discover and translate a book engraved on gold plates, containing a record of various migrations from the middle east to America. Point is, he did, or he didn’t. There’s no “subjective truth” about it. If you turn up at a Mormon meeting, they will make you welcome, whether or not you believe – but they will never stop trying to convince you. In the nicest possible way, of course.
A lot of intelligent people believe it is true. Maybe it is. As Nietzsche says, it doesn’t have to be true to be effective. Certainly, it’s no more far-out than the people who are rejecting Christianity in favor of Druidism or Odinism.
Regarding the “racism” of the Book of Mormon, the passage I like to quote to Mormons (because it makes some of them uncomfortable) is the one where the writer refers to the ancient American Indians as “a dark and loathsome, and a filthy people”.
Unfortunately, Mexicans are flocking to Utah to join the church, for the welfare program it runs for members.
John says:
September 19, 2010 at 5:35 am
“but if you’re talking about joining their church so that you can be a part of their lives, in essence live that life, it seems like it would be impossible to do if you didn’t truly believe what they believe,”
It doesn’t have to be that way.
Now, here I going to recommend a book and a way of acting that when used with antis, non Whites it’s the worst – but in situations like this with good White folks it’s very helpful.
How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
It’s basically a self help book that instructs the reader to as* kiss, and agree with whoever you are in the room with – try to learn their likes and dislikes, their positions and agree with them, flatter them, try to find positive things you like in the person you are with and then compliment them about in order to win them over to your side.
Now this approach is the absolute pits when dealing with antis, when a person would be in the same room with Robert Mugabe or some Jewish hard core pornographer, but the point to remember here with White Mormons is that we are talking about good, healthy White folks, who have done and are doing, lots and lots of good things like getting healthy young White Americans together at college and encouraging them, helping them get married and have White children.
So, when you make the call that the White folks are on balance really good White people, you shift gears in to the Dale Carnegie way of thinking and acting and you work really hard to find good things to say about the individual White Mormons you are with and simply avoid topics that can go negative like the Mormons plural marriage past or facts that say the whole Mormon plates of gold thing was faked.
And one great thing about White Mormons is all the positive activities they provide for their members – children’s nurseries, sports leagues, structured activities for teens to see decent movies together with some supervision and not just sending the teens to the mall – having teen girls get slutty as something to do.
Yeah, I like to hang out with White Mormons a lot and if you bring something of value to them – in my case I am good at many sports, they’ll like you.
Now don’t insult perfectly good, nice White Mormons. A lot of hard core American WN could use to take the Dale Carnegie course and learn to stop being so argumentative, stop insulting others all the time.
The problem that I see, again and again and again, with Whites, is that they are so good, kind, and decent that they absolutely can NOT imagine that Non-Whites are any different, “deep down inside”.
If the Mormons already have Conversos inside. as well as actively recruiting Non-Whites – they are already quite screwed.
“My three daughters are active in the church, and two of them are BYU graduates.”
I hope this question isn’t too off topic.
I have a beautiful (White) non-slutty daughter who would like to study a major that BYU offers. We’re not Mormon; we’re agnostic. I know BYU does accept some non-Mormons at a higher tuition rate.
Do you think an agnostic but morally healthy girl would “fit” there?
“A lot of hard core American WN could use to take the Dale Carnegie course and learn to stop being so argumentative, stop insulting others all the time.”
Nary a truer thing was ever said.
Have you had any experiences with the Fundamentalist Mormons? With their polygamy and anti-black hostility, I find them intriguing. Perhaps you were looking at the wrong Mormons!
Isn’t this exactly what Hunter diagnosed as being wrong with WN? This fascination with with the extreme, such as a looney subculture who dress like they just got off the set of Little House on the Prairie and are totally irrelevant to what’s going on in the mainstream of American life?
I myself could never convert to any such religion. My questions as to what reality really is have been explained to my satisfaction by science and I can never fool myself into believing, Odin, or Jesus, or Joseph Smith with his Golden Platters, or psychics, or aliens, or any such supernatural mumbo jumbo actually exists.
“Isn’t this exactly what Hunter diagnosed as being wrong with WN? This fascination with with the extreme, such as a looney subculture who dress like they just got off the set of Little House on the Prairie and are totally irrelevant to what’s going on in the mainstream of American life?”
Looney subculture? So we WN’s should dress our kids up like brats dolls and send them off to the zoo?
Jack Ryan said: It’s basically a self help book that instructs the reader to as* kiss, and agree with whoever you are in the room with – try to learn their likes and dislikes, their positions and agree with them, flatter them, try to find positive things you like in the person you are with and then compliment them about in order to win them over to your side.
As I said earlier, I don’t doubt at all that Mormons are nice, sincere, decent, well meaning folks. I don’t put down their religion at all, because I think it no less implausible than any of them. I certainly would not be in their presence and badmouth their traditions or practices at all.
The thing is, they live their principles. It’s not something they do on Sundays. So, if you were to spend significant time with them, and they repeatedly try to convince you of the truth of their beliefs, and you simply don’t believe, it would be difficult. First, being smart, I think they’d know that you don’t believe what they do, and just a guess, I’d think that knowing that, they’d not want their daughters marrying or dating a non-believer, though they could certainly still like and be friendly with you.
The whole ass kissing, flattering, just to curry favor seems fundamentally false to me, regardless of who you are doing it to (Mormons or others). Seems too used car salesman-like. Flattery and affection that arises naturally is a great thing. If you genuinely like and respect people, those things will happen on their own.
Studying their likes just to flatter and curry favor with them just seems too contrived for me personally. I guess it comes down to how much to you value and enjoy being in their presence. My desire to be liked by them would fall short of applying principles of How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Personally, I am turned off if I get a whiff of someone flattering me and trying to curry favor, if I had any inkling that it was not genuine.
I don’t put down anyone else if they wish to do something like that, and I do find Mormons to be generally admirable people. My maternal grandparents were Jack Mormons, though none of their children of grandchildren remained in the faith.
barb says:
September 19, 2010 at 3:56 pm
“My three daughters are active in the church, and two of them are BYU graduates.”
I hope this question isn’t too off topic.
I have a beautiful (White) non-slutty daughter who would like to study a major that BYU offers. We’re not Mormon; we’re agnostic. I know BYU does accept some non-Mormons at a higher tuition rate.
Do you think an agnostic but morally healthy girl would “fit” there?”
Jack Ryan replies:
Yes, I think your daughter would do very well at BYU. The key is just not to have her be “anti Mormon”, “anti religion”. BYU has lot and lots of activities – music clubs, healthy positive things for young White people to do. And without being too involved in your daughters life, see if you can make some contacts there and put the word out that folks should go easy on pushing “religion” to your daughter, have folks lead by example and who knows, maybe your daughter will come around more their way later in life.
Another thing about LDS/Mormons – until very recently, most White Mormons were/are not “intellectuals”, certainly not East Coast intellectuals. I doubt if most students at BYU know what an “agnostic” is. Your daughter might say something like “my family isn’t in any one church – mostly secular, but believes in lots of good things, good morals, being nice to authors, that sort of thing”.
The LDS/Mormons really are nice White folks – they don’t yell at you or accuse others who are not in their way of being “EVIL SINNERS GOING TO HELL”.
barb says:
“I have a beautiful (White) non-slutty daughter who would like to study a major that BYU offers. We’re not Mormon; we’re agnostic. I know BYU does accept some non-Mormons at a higher tuition rate.
Do you think an agnostic but morally healthy girl would “fit” there?”
Jack Ryan replies:
Barb,
Here’s another suggestion for your daughter and BYU.
Have your daughter say that she is “exploring the church” ie checking out the Mormon/LDS faith.
Instead of just coming down that it is a done deal and your daughter is atheist, agnostic etc.
This puts the ball in the court of the religious folks at BYU that they want to be nice and helpful to your daughter so she gets a good impression of the church and might decide to go their way.
Now I know so many WN think and act that they/we are the ones who:
“KNOW THE TRUTH and we must share our Gospel, our truth, the one true racial TRUTH OTHERWISE…..
IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD
IT’S THE END OF OUR RACE
And we’re running out of time, we have to act now! And every single White strangers we meet we try to share the WHOLE TRUTH about THE JEWS, BLACKS, IMMIGRATION INVASION, THE SIX MILLION HOAX AND AND……”
It just doesn’t work. We’re the ones who come off as crazed, religious extremists, cult members.
So, I am suggesting in this post to try something different.
Try to get to know some real nice White folks who share something in common – in this case they are in the Mormon/LDS Church. Try to get to know some regular, nice White folks and go slow, listen more than talking, look around and see what good things are happening that are supporting our WN program – things like young White Mormons having large, beautiful White families. Make some friends, instead of always getting in to arguments, flame wars, trying to make yourself the TEACHER, the Boss.
Thanks, Jack,
I’m really interested to know that attending BYU doesn’t require converting to LDS as an a priori, done deal, thing.
I don’t know too much about Mormonism, except the fact that the missionaries (good looking White boys that they are) *can* be pushy. Maybe that’s not really a characteristic of the church, but just a manifestion of their youthful exuberance and energy?
Certainly, “pushing” the doctrine at her, especially long hours of being badgered and the missionary not taking the hint to quit right now, will turn her off. Fear of such scenarios is her only reluctance to attending such a beautiful school attended by White, moral, nice people.
Who would I talk to, to get them to keep it low-key, and as you say, lead by example?
barb says:
September 19, 2010 at 7:53 pm (Edit)
Thanks, Jack,
I’m really interested to know that attending BYU doesn’t require converting to LDS as an a priori, done deal, thing.
I don’t know too much about Mormonism, except the fact that the missionaries (good looking White boys that they are) *can* be pushy. Maybe that’s not really a characteristic of the church, but just a manifestion of their youthful exuberance and energy?
Certainly, “pushing” the doctrine at her, especially long hours of being badgered and the missionary not taking the hint to quit right now, will turn her off. Fear of such scenarios is her only reluctance to attending such a beautiful school attended by White, moral, nice people.
Who would I talk to, to get them to keep it low-key, and as you say, lead by example?”
Jack Ryan replies:
I have lots of BYU Mormon/LDS contacts.
Let’s take this off O.D. to discuss what is best for your daughter to have a positive BYU experience.
e-mail me at:
jackryanvb@gmail.com
Great insights here, especially the commentary on their “not intellectualism”. Man is a social animal, tribal even. That implies procreation. It means you’ve got to endear yourself with some stranger of the opposite sex for oh, 22 years or so, or the kids grow up all meshugina (sorry, couldn’t help it, being from Philly…).
So yeah – it’s a terrific idea not to hit people over the head with a bat, at least not before you’ve been introduced. 😉
Dale Carnegie: a traveling salesman on the verge of starvation in the days before welfare and food stamps and graduate degrees. Learned the hard way how to make business happen in, as a bonus, had a full and happy life with many friends.
Not a bad way for a White guy to live his life, huh?
Nietzsche, show me a “true” religion. The Mormons don’t make less sense than the Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, etc, etc., etc. Someone wih the moniker Nietzsche should know this.
My problems with LDS: they have an absurdly crackpot theology (Jesus in the Americas anyone?), their Church’s anti-intellectualism, an obligatory 10% in tithing, two years wasted on a mission, aggressive proselytizing of all kinds of dusky Third Worlders, they’re increasingly falling in line with modernity and the PC Zeitgeist. They’re basically just running on fumes right now; I don’t see them superior to pre-Vatican II Catholics or Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, for example. Any fundamentalist sect offers good family values and healthy living, as long as you don’t mind checking your brain at the door. I do.
I once asked 2 mormon missionaries who came to my door about the no-blacks-in-the-preisthood stuff and how they caved in in the 1970’s and allowed them in. I gave evidence amd pointed out that very worldly politics had changed the face of the “god of this world” in our societies. In fact, most of the changes to our world which were happening before and around when the Mormon church caved into political pressure and allowed blacks in were started and promoted by Jews who do not accept christ as the savior. Then, wonder of wonders, there was a “revelation” that they should accept blacks — contrary to their history (and contrary to science which shows blacks on a different path with a naturally different destiny). They spoke with their regional bishop and came back and said they just have to have “faith” and follow their leader. They never came back after that and never knocked on my door again.
Blacks bring biologically more sin and corruption — they thrive on it naturally. That’s why they are so overrun with aids and have so many children out of wedlock, and have such high violent crime rates. It is quite natural and right to exclude them from a preisthood trying to mold a higher path for humanity. For the same reason, they should not lead white nations. On every scientifically-measured indicator of good leadership we have, blacks fall WAY behind. It is therefore scientifically sound practice and quite wise to focus on white people if we want to elect the best leaders. That is an easy dividing point and rule of thumb based on verifiable truth.
Their allowing blacks in the preisthood is pure politics, period. They had it right when they used to believe other races were somehow “cursed” — they just did not know why. That is why science and gentics is important, and better than religion in giving us a higher path. It gives us something concrete, makes the forces of politics and the “god of this world” less able to twist us off the true higher path. It destroys deception. Truth is quite literally the armor of God to me in this sense. They need to take note. I talk about this in my book.
barb –
Absolutey, and no need to pretend an interest she doesn’t feel. There are many non-Mormon students there. She should be aware, though, that BYU students are expected to sign an undertaking to abide by certain standards. This means, obviously, sexual morality, but also includes things like bad language, smoking, drinking alcohol etc.
If you’re interested in finding out more, from the horse’s mouth, you can email me at odcontact4711 at gmail, send me an email address and i’ll ask my daughters to get in touch with you. I promise, no proselyting for the church!
Brilliant comment, Steven Romer.
@ Fred — why shouldn’t we hear about LDS? It’s the White group in the country with the highest birthrate of White children. Whatever else you might say about them, they deserve a place in any discussion about White survival. The White birthrate is sine qua non.
Also, the strict morality, as Steven Romer points out, is antipathy to the African-American lifestyle. The LDS church molds old fashioned White folks, not whiggers or mudsharks. We can’t afford to ignore or scoff at the LDS church — none of us has anything as remotely successful. I think the White race is going to survive, but if we have anything like a “close call” the last White people on earth will be LDS.
Thanks to everyone who contributed excellent comments on this post discussing “hanging out with White Mormons”.
And that was the point of the post – whether a racially awake WN should consider hanging out/associated with White LDS/Mormons. I was not proposing religious conversions – just associations, getting to know some of these people, seeing what they do well and not so well.
WN have been trying to create a working WN “Church” for a long time, without a lot of success and this often leads to WN looking to ban all churches, tax all churches, or simply write off any White person who does the “church” thing. I think we have to work with what’s “out there”.
I for one am very happy to know that there are lots and lots of very nice, White Mormons/LDS “out there”.
14 Words
The other main point I was trying to make in this “Hanging out with White Mormons” post is that I strongly urge people here and WN throughout America and the world to:
Be social with regular Whites who are not in any full time “movement”.
We don’t want to drop out of society.
Being “social”, means just that – socializing.
Can we/you do this? Or do we lack certain “social skills”.
It isn’t just Jew Hollywood propaganda – lots of self described WN have poor social skills. But these can be improved and they need to be improved.
Large numbers of Whites are not going to elect us as their “saviors” if we can’t get them to to even associate with us.
So practice those social skills – how to “meet and greet”. How to listen. How to dress appropriately for different occasions, how to listen instead of always talking, always lecturing the supposed one single TRUTH.
Thanks again everyone who contributed to this great thread.
Jack,
Great post, and I must say that I am doing what you recommend — hanging out with ordinary White people who don’t necessarily share or views, or admit to sharing our views. I practice Taqqiyah among them, listen to what they say, get an idea about what their concerns are in life, and base what I say to them on what I perceive about them.
White guys who come to the WN movement are usually intellectuals. We live in our heads, and focus on conscious thought. Too often, we meet people and assume the role of “teacher.” Let’s instead try on different roles, like “listener,” and “helper,” and even “joker” (albeit with clean jokes that come at no one’s expense). Also, when you use facts and figures, you speak to the conscious mind. When you talk in vague terms like “a lot” or “fascinating” you speak to the unconscious.
Kievsky says:
September 21, 2010 at 11:19 am
Jack,
“Great post, and I must say that I am doing what you recommend — hanging out with ordinary White people who don’t necessarily share or views, or admit to sharing our views. I practice Taqqiyah among them, listen to what they say, get an idea about what their concerns are in life, and base what I say to them on what I perceive about them.”
Jack Ryan replies
Very good to hear you are going out there and being with, listening to regular White people. And if you really want to lift your spirits, hang out with some attractive White women with beautiful White children and let them lift your spirits.
Yes, I am familiar with Fundamentalist, plural marriage Mormons. And I noted that they were set up and persecuted by some Black woman in Colorado making a call to law enforcement in Arizona alleging detailed child abuse. So, yes I was on the White folks side there.
It’s my understanding that most Mormons in plural marriages are not “fundies,” i.e., not members of polygamist fundamentalist Mormon churches, but “refugees” from the Mormon church who turned toward fundie beliefs. I.e., they’re not affiliated with any church but the LDS. The FLDS are more the hard-core, organized types of fundies.
I think my problem with the Mormons is their church. Centralized authority means a Jew gets the ear of the ruler and game over. One moron wearing the right hat can take everyone down with him. That’s why I can’t get into Catholicism either. Jews and Muslims know better, and have decentralized religious authorities. Also, big authority like the pope or the prophet means rule by man (the aforementioned “revelation” about Congoids), not doctrine.
Svigor says:
September 22, 2010 at 9:27 pm (Edit)
“I think my problem with the Mormons is their church. Centralized authority means a Jew gets the ear of the ruler and game over. One moron wearing the right hat can take everyone down with him. That’s why I can’t get into Catholicism either. Jews and Muslims know better, and have decentralized religious authorities. Also, big authority like the pope or the prophet means rule by man (the aforementioned “revelation” about Congoids), not doctrine.”
Jack Ryan replies:
I don’t see it that way. The strength of the Mormon Church are the vibrant local wards and the presiding Bishop in each ward calls the shots. The Mormon Church doesn’t have paid, full time clergy like the Catholic Church, so the Mormon Church leader is an elected, local White guy who lives and works in the community. This means that there is way less problems with Church officials being out of touch with their White congregations, they are too bush working with the local White congregation. And LDS bishops don’t serve forever like Catholic Priests and Supreme Court justices.
Interesting tidbit about Islam – Europeans (sons of Japheth) are racially designated as rulers (more than once if I’m not mistaken) in the Koran.
I don’t claim to know the details Jack. I’m just saying, now they all take the word of the central authority and accept blacks, right? What new “revelations” of Mammon are waiting? What happens to an LDS member who decides the “revelation” about blacks is false, decides to take a fundie line about Amerinds and non-whites being “cursed” or whatever? Excommunication, right?
Personally I think the FLDS are more interesting. Not from a meet-and-greet barbecues and ball games perspective, but from a “where TF do we find a religion that suits us?” perspective. I agree with the previous commenter who mentioned other fundie sects (the Quiverfull movement come to mind).
I can see working with Christian (or Mormon, if you make a distinction) fundies. Fundies take their books seriously and there’s a LOT to work with in the Bible. Mainstream Mormons seem too worldly, like most mainstream churches.
Re “faking” belief and such. I don’t know, it’s a grey area as to whether I could pull it off. Not in the sense of deceiving people, but in the sense of whether there’s a religion that’s both protective enough of my race that I could get behind it, and accepted by enough relatively normal people to create a community that could attract me. Because if there’s a viable religion that protects my race, I could easily see getting enthused enough about it to actually start believing it, in a weird kind of way.
It’s hard to explain, but I could easily see it happening if such a religion exists, which is the part I’m most in doubt about. “This $%@! can’t be good for me” really stands athwart any attempts I make to even imagine getting behind a religion, so it’s tough to progress any further in thinking about it. But if that impediment were removed, I think the rest is doable.
In short, any God I worship is going to have to protect my race, and Gods like that are in short supply ATM.
AFAICT, in no particular order, there’s:
Fundie Mormonism/Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Svigor says:
“September 22, 2010 at 9:51 pm (Edit)
Re “faking” belief and such. I don’t know, it’s a grey area as to whether I could pull it off. ”
Jack Ryan replies:
My advice is to not try to “fake it” here or anywhere. Be honest, but be diplomatic.
I suggest that people should work with White Mormons or any other mostly White church is to do so in a way that works for you/us/them
My experience with White Mormons/LDS in places that are more affluent, educated (university communities) is that few if anyone is running around “shouting” about “unbelievers” and trying to find out if YOU TRUELY BELIEVE 100% in THE ONLY TRUTH – stuff like that. The LDS church wouldn’t be so successful if they did stuff like that.
Instead there are basic doctrines you’re suppose to learn about and accept and most are fine:
Mormons believe that we have a pre-mortal existence in heaven with a spirit and yes bodies and then we come to earth for a life and return to heaven after death with the same spirit and body – that’s why it is so important to maintain a healthy body on earth.
I think it’s a good doctrine, because this way folks don’t get so bent out of shape about aging and dying – it’s just part of the process and the end should be that we maintain our mind, soul and yes, healthiest bodies in heaven.
Other doctrines about Jesus appearing in Central America – so what? The stories depicted in the Book of Mormon sound believable to anyone who has dealt with the races that are from there are now there and are now invading us – the Book of Mormon describes these people as wild, barbaric, brutal people, cursed with ugly dark skins – sounds like M13 folks in East LA.
If you are a very intelligent, well educated White person and you take the time to get to know some local White Mormons/LDS and you are honest in putting the word out that you like them, like what they are doing and not doing – be honest in saying you oppose the corruptions in mainline Protestant Churches – lesbian priests, all sorts of bad PC Leftist politics being substituted for traditional religion. Yeah, they’ll be receptive.
And as in all other areas, I suggest WN:
Finesse the race issue.
Say that you oppose the violent rap music world, hard core pornography (No reason to try to shout the Truth that it is THE JEWS who created and run porn), violent Hollywood movies, you’re a healthy, regular (White) guy and are interested in having a traditional family – the kind lots of Americans had in say the 1950s, where now it seems only the Mormons/LDS managed to make this happen.
Mormons/LDS have some prophecies about other churches falling away and women abandoning their most important calling of being mothers – it’s Satan pushing this and that works fine for me.
Whenever I see White women insulting straight White men and refusing to be good wives and mothers for our race, I see that as the work of evil/Satan.
But, again, my point is that you/we can work with White Mormon people and all kinds of basically good, decent White folks. Just try to look and listen and see what you like, see what is possible. Try to resist the urge to insult perfectly decent White folks and change the mind with
THE TRUTH
These NEW Mormons do not even believe their own religion. The Book of Mormon specifically says that chimps are to be avoided. Only the Fundamentalist Mormons follow the book of Mormons. Mainstream Mormons are ashamed of their own religion.
I agree. I hope that someone will create a White Mormon Church, which will be more militant than klan or NS groups. What happened to White Nephites in BOM will happen again,. whites will be slowly or rapìdly wiped out. The Templk rites are a higher form of Masonry to safe guard white race from destruction. I agree with David Lane comments also that original mormon religion was exclsively for whites only. Joseph Smith was a brillant man and almost defeated the Jewish Masonic new world order. But the Masons killed hin because they feared him and drove Mormons out and destroyed their temples. I pray that the Raven returns to save white race with new White Mormon Church against the illumanati scum now who control.
I agree with Jack Ryan. We must try something different. Someone needs to form a White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ and and the make it more militant, and racist than Aryan Nations, Odinism, National Socialiam or KKK. Our Race world wide is facing total destruction. What happened to Ancient White Nephites is happeniong again. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had brilliant beliefs. The Temple Rites are for White Race, the True Order Of Prayer, Keeping family records and trees, The Angels of Death or Danites, The White State of Deseret, The Priesthood only for White Males, The Doctrine of Whiteness and Darkness and so on. The Salt Lake Mormons are doing all in their power to change to a Multi Culutral New World >Oder Cess pool. Thy ban White Oriented books of Mormonism, like Mormon Doctrine and many other books, plus they hate the Banned Mormon Cartoon. Read Mormonzietgeist, has much info on Mormons. I remember going to a LDS Church before 1978. They taught White Nephites built pyramids and also White Jaradites and sold book Ancient America and Book of Mormon and America Before Columbus and etc. David Lane is right about Mormons, it was an exclusive White Race Religion. The USA, which has been under the Evil Seed Control has went after Mormons like a Tiger, No more than 1 wife, blacks in priesthood, and jews are ok. All of this garbage about Smith kidnapping 13 year old girls, and finding gold plates in cabbage patch is Masonic hatred of the True White Rites of True Mormons. In Elsie Sechrists book Dreams Your Magic Mirror, The Raven is Gods symbol of love to help man in his times of emergency. The Egyptian Alpahabet, A first letter is Raven, Aleph. The Raven will Return. White Mormon Lone Wolfs, form the White Mormon Church. At this time in history it would be perfect. As far as disproving Book of Mormon with DNA, that is garbage of NWO. Some, a very few of Indians were White. The large number of Mongol Indians is from Bearing Straits, plus how The Doctrine of Whiteness and Darkness how unrighteousness and sin causes skin to darken. Forming a White Mormon Church would really anger the Beast, the Evil Seedline of Cain. I would like to thank this web site for putting my comments online.
What the Pre-1978 Mormon Church means to me: When I attended a Pre-1978 Mormon Church I felt and observed something that I have not seen any where else. In my life I attended all kinds of White Nationalist, White Power, Klan Meetings and Rally’s. What I experenced in the Pre-1978 Mormon Church was the WHITE FAMILY, WHITE BROTHERHOOD which was so powerful, Man! What a beautiful WHITE RELIGION CHURCH. They had Singles Night, Family Night, They had Bible and Book of Mormon study night, Meetings for Priesthoods, and so on—-and when they had food , it was so good! Ben Klassen and David Icke are wrong about Mormons! A White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ could be our salvation from destruction and White Race Survival would begin. The Baptist Church, The Catholic Church and all the other churches are no were near close to what I felt in the Pre-1978 Mormon Church. Since 1978 everything with WHITE in it has been removed by the Salt Lake Illumanati Scum Bags. Books like America Before Columbus, Ancient America and the Book of Mormon, Mormon Doctrine and countless others have been removed to get in line with New World Agenda of The Brown Mud Man with The Zionist Cainites ruling their world slave plantation. The New Mormon Church wants to Baptise all the mud races of world and in the process kill off the White Race. All of their Tolerance is Not Acceptance Crap and so on and Multi-cultural — Brown Mud Man is cramed down our throats. The Jewish Masonic Illumanati Brotherhood of Man Crap and No Man an Island is pure garbage. These scum bags even do inter- racial marriages in the Temples which are now descecrated They want to Erase White Race off the planet. What really gets me is how no White Racist or White Nationalist has not tried to form a WHITE MORMON CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST! The time is now to form it. So all you White Haters Get ready, its coming soon! George Lincoln Rockwell and other White Groups use to yell WHITE POWER! How about WHITE MORMON POWER!!!!!!! Yell it from the roof tops! White Mormon Lone Wolfs—Form The Church!!!!! THE RAVEN AND SWEET ODOR OF CEDAR IS RETURNING!!!!! WHITE MORMON POWER!!!!!!!!!
Poking fun! The White Horse Prophecy: John Huntsman Sr. and Mitt Romney are not the White Horse Prophecy. Both are in bed with Babylon and Illumanati Pawns. The White Horse Peophecy is this: When you see the word constitution —- it is WHITE RACE in the Prophecy. The White Horse is the founding of the WHITE MORMON CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!! It will come upon Ravens Wings and have the sweet oder of Cedar! 2011 White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ— Oath of Vengance: You do solemnly swear, in the presence of almighty God and his Holy Angels and these witnesses, that you will avenge the Blood of Joseph Smith and all White Martyrs, and teach your children from this day henceforth, and forever, begin and carry out hostility aganist this nation and all ANTI-WHITES, and the same a profound secret now and ever. So Help you God!!!!! Ha! Ha1 WHITE MORMON POWER! Just as Smith had to hide the plates, so the WHITE MORMON CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST will be hide for a time to keep keep it in safety!!!!!
Poking fun! The White Horse Prophecy: John Huntsman Sr. and Mitt Romney are not the White Horse Prophecy. Both are in bed with Babylon and Illumanati Pawns. The White Horse Peophecy is this: When you see the word constitution —- it is WHITE RACE in the Prophecy. The White Horse is the founding of the WHITE MORMON CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!! It will come upon Ravens Wings and have the sweet oder of Cedar! 2011 White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ— Oath of Vengance: You do solemnly swear, in the presence of almighty God and his Holy Angels and these witnesses, that you will avenge the Blood of Joseph Smith and all White Martyrs, and teach your children from this day henceforth, and forever, begin and carry out hostility aganist this nation and all ANTI-WHITES, and the same a profound secret now and ever. So Help you God!!!!! Ha! Ha1 WHITE MORMON POWER! Just as Smith had to hide the plates, so the WHITE MORMON CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST will be hide for a time to keep it in safety!!!!!
I just went to church at an LDS White Mormon church in Southern California.
I’d say the church congregation was about 98% White, the exception was a Persian Iranian convert and a Whiter Turkish guy married to a White American gal, lots and lots of beautiful blonde women, children.
The service is very White – features English hymns that would be fitting for a 1920s Anglican church in New England, England.
Really nice folks – there is no PC, lib/min nonsense.
My advice is that if you still want to find some way to make a “Christian” church with patriotic American themes work for you, try a Mormon LDS church.
the LDS church is big in the West, California, Arizona, Nevada and around some prestigious Colleges and Universities. Fortunately the LDS church just doesn’t really work in high non White urban areas. There are some Jews coming in, doing the converso join and subvert route, but it doesn’t seem to be a big problem.
If you do decide to “hang out with White mormons” I suggest you don’t talk too much about politics are revisionist history, just be honest in that you like being with healthy, nice folks that are family oriented. Listen to their doctrines and many of them are fine, better than traditional Judeo Christian churches. Give them some compliments for surviving brutal persecutions in the 19th century and express concern that all kinds of straight, Conservative Americans are being persecuted now. Finesse the race issue, but it’s there.
The White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ (WMC): I would like to thank again Occidental Dissent for letting me post my views on Mormons. The controlling element of Salt Lake LDS who are illumanati controlled and White Traitor Trash are hell bent on destroing anything WHITE in the church. The WMC will counter this by preserving all WHITE oriented books. Here is a few books and subjects which will give you an idea; 1)MORMON DOCTRINE first editions are best before changes were made by LDS 2.) Ancient America and the Book of Mormon by Hunter 3.) America Before Columbus, Amazon.com has a few copies left 4.) An Indian Interpretation of BOM 5.) MORMON, MASTADONS and MOUND BUILDERS on Spalding Research Library 6.) Curse of Cain, Racism in Mormon Church 7.) DNA and BOM 8.) Mormons Fall Away, Fulfilling BOM Prophecy, Signaling the coming of a future Indian prophet 9.) AYAR INCA’S by Miles Poindexter Vol. 1 and 2 10.) The Legendary White Skinned Cloud People of Peru 11.)All Things Common by Will Anderson Blue Otter 12.) All Mormon Fundalmentalist books, examples are Ogden Kraut and James Harmston and his True Oder of Prayer 13.) Cumorah by Shook 14.) The Book Unsealed by Etzenhower excellent book from early 1900s. I Can?t list all the books that are White Oriented. There is many and the LDS White Traitor Crowd wants to get rid of them to get with illumanati New World Agenda of fuure Brown Man ruled by Zionist. In the early 1983 I met 3 Momons in the Hialah Florida LDS Church. One Lady was in charge of Genealogy Room and she gave me a book to read called Ancient America and The Book of Mormon by Hunter, what an eye opener! Then her friend gave me a big soft cover book entitled America Before Columbus by Fergerson, boy what a book. Amazon still has a few copes of this. Then the older White Mormon gentleman let me borrow his Picture book of travels to Central and South America to all the old ruins. Unbeleivable to say the least, Wow! Ancient White Civilzations of White Nephites and Jaredites. The lady in the Genealogy Room also showed me a large set of picture cartoon type books with the whole BOM broke down in pictures, Wow! Then I saw in church how they starting adopting NWO Crap by baptising blacks into the church, sickening! I would like to make a few comments on David Icke and Ben Klassen, they are wromg about Mormon Church and they both attack it, mind control, lizards and White Aryans are clones and all that garbage. Klassen has excellent beautiful writtings on White Race but attacks Mormons ruthlessly and aggressively, again he dont understand, A WMC could and will be a salvation for White Race. The best write up on Mormons I ever read was by a Pastor William Lester Blessing of Denver, Colorado who had article in his Showers of Blessing called MORMONISM, the best ever view on Mormons I ever did see. I am trying to give a picture of what the WMC could be for White Race, all that needs to done is to form it! Joseph Smith is the greatest White Racist and did tremendous work in his life time. Maybe the White Mormon Church of Jesus Church could make a new civilization that would out live even the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Empire had Greek fire and they lasted for almost 800 years. The White Horse Prophecy is The White Mormon Church of Jesus Christ! The Raven will return and beautiful oder, smell, holy smoke of Cedar. WHITE MORMON POWER!!!!!