Lemmings and Miracles

Miracles are not solutions

White America

Rasmussen has a new poll out that sheds considerable light on the subject of how White Nationalists should engage White America. There are two competing points of view on this subject.

“Mainstreamers” believe the White majority is sympathetic to our beliefs and that we should work through the system to connect with a mass audience and confront our enemies in a lawful manner.

“Vanguardists” believe that the White majority are “lemmings” who dance to whatever tune is played by an elite cabal of string pullers in the mass media. They believe in rejecting the system and forming a “hardcore nucleus” of true believers who will rise to power in the aftermath of the collapse.

State of America

Here are the latest poll numbers:

– 57 percent of likely U.S. voters believe the policies and practices of the federal government encourage illegal immigration.

– 21 percent of likely U.S. voters believe the federal government does not encourage illegal immigration.

– 47 percent of voters say that relying on the federal government to enforce federal immigration law is a better approach than relying on individual states to enforce immigration law.

– 44 percent of voters would rather rely on the individual states to enforce federal immigration law.

– 68 percent of voters say that securing the border is more important than legalizing illegal aliens.

– 25 percent of voters say that legalizing illegal aliens is more important.

– 64 percent of voters say the U.S. military should be used to secure the border.

– 60 percent of Republicans favor the states acting on their own to enforce federal immigration laws.

– 59 percent of Democrats think it is better to rely on the federal government to enforce federal immigration laws.

– 78 percent of mainstream voters say that border security is more important than legalizing illegal aliens.

– 50 percent of the political class thinks border security is more important than amnesty.

– 70 percent of mainstream voters believe the federal government encourages illegal immigration.

– 54 percent of the political class believes the federal government does not encourage illegal immigration.

– 65 percent of the political class would rather rely upon the federal government to enforce immigration laws.

– 55 percent of mainstream voters would rather rely upon the states to enforce immigration laws.

– 58 percent of Americans oppose granting birthright citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.


Nothing here should come as a surprise.

The numbers above are racially inclusive. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Jews were included in the poll.  This skews the results considerably to the Left.

White voters are far more supportive of restrictionist immigration laws than the Rasmussen numbers indicate.

We have public opinion on our side. The mainstream media is unable to dictate the course of the immigration debate. White America flatly does not trust either the mainstream media or the political class to handle immigration anymore.

If you do a Google News search for “immigration,” as I do every morning, you will be hard pressed to find a single article in the mainstream media that is supportive of restrictionist immigration laws. Journalists are almost unanimously supportive of amnesty for illegal aliens.

We need to stop lying to ourselves about several important subjects:

– White people are able to see through the media bias on immigration.

– There are real and significant differences between “progressives” and “conservatives” on immigration. This is also true of “Democrats” and “Republicans.”

– The constituency for new restrictionist immigration laws are populist conservatives who are concentrated in the Republican Party.

– Given the state of public opinion, we have a serious problem on the organizational and message fronts.


In related news, Jared Taylor weighed in on this subject at the 2011 Amren conference. He “characterized the present age” as one of “belief in miracles.”

After discussing the wishful thinking that is so prevalent in the mainstream, Taylor addressed the most powerful myth that prevails in our own circles:

“Mr. Taylor chided some race realists for believing in their own miracle: that the economic and social systems will soon collapse, and that a strong white racial consciousness will emerge from the rubble. Instead, he urged whites to take advantage of the rising anger against the direction in which the country is moving and to undertake the hard, painstaking work of politics. Even just a few race realists on school boards or city councils would have a huge psychological and propaganda effect, and would begin to channel current frustrations in promising directions.”

The polls have shown for years that White America is ripe to be organized against the mainstream media and political class on immigration. Immigration is by far the most important public policy issue to White Nationalists.

The polls also show that White America is similarly fed up with racial double standards, media bias, multiculturalism, free trade, foreign aid, foreign wars, and especially the skyrocketing national debt and government spending on privileged minorities. These are all perceived as legitimate grievances.

If you take the White Nationalist political platform and poll each separate plank of our agenda, you will find that most of our views are not only mainstream, but actually quite centrist in their level of public support.

There is something wrong with our approach.

Final Thoughts

I think the major problem we have is that we are getting too far ahead of our audience.

White Nationalists tend to be “truth tellers.” They are disproportionately bright people who have personalities that incline them toward questioning authority.

This is a good thing in the sense that it allows White Nationalists to see through the prevailing taboos against White racial consciousness. It also comes at the expense of coming across as tone deaf before most audiences.

The hare has to travel at the same speed of the tortoise to lead the turtles in the right direction. This goes against the grain of our personalities.

Most White Nationalists don’t have the patience to lead or interact with ordinary White people. They end up traveling far ahead of the curve, isolating themselves in the process, and hurling insults at their audience from the fringes of society.

Sometimes you have to go backward to go forward.

In our case, we have to back to where White people are today, organize them around popular issues like illegal immigration and racial double standards, establish ourselves as legitimate authority figures, and then lead ordinary people at their own slow plodding pace to a mass racial awakening.

It is not going to be easy.

In my humble opinion, that is the only way we are ever going to get White America and White Nationalists moving along on the right track.

About Hunter Wallace 12366 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent


  1. Hunter Wallace writes:
    “Vanguardists” believe that the White majority are “lemmings” who dance to whatever tune is played by an elite cabal of string pullers in the mass media. They believe in rejecting the system and forming a “hardcore nucleus” of true believers who will rise to power in the aftermath of the collapse.

    Jack ryan responds:

    I think that is true for some Vanguard types, but not all. I see WN “Vanguard” folks as alienated from mainstream (White) American society and they think political elections are “fixed” at least at the national/Presidential level so they don’t want to waste their time losing in system politics.

    We need to find:

    Things for these Vanguard types to do that are healthy, productive and help in some way to further the cause of our people/culture – promote the 14 words.

    Not everyone is “mainstream” – particularly when the “mainstream” in the United States of America consists of lots and lots of television watching, Hollywood/Madison Avenue anti White propaganda.

    What are some things Vanguard types can do that aren’t counterproductive – that help them find jobs, find GFs, wives (we’re talking almost exclusively about Vanguard men), White children.

    I can look at some counter culture White groups who’ve had some success:

    the Amish
    Some White bikers
    Some White 60s Leftists
    White artist communities (such as Renaissance Fair actors)

    I was really surprised and overjoyed to have an Amish family coming to my Lib/Min University urban neighborhood to participate in a Farmers Market. This White Amish family must have had ~ 8 white children and the family business seemed to be going great.

    The successful White Amish communities don’t waste a lot of time stressing about the corrupt, anti White Hollywood Jew movies or hard core pornography that exploits our White women or anti White Obama appointments to the Supreme Court – because they are mostly out of “the system” – off the grid.

    I don’t think many White Amish people are raped, murdered and terrorzed by NWs, Blacks – because they just don’t move in the same circles, don’t attend urban public schools, go to rap concerts etc.

    So with WN Vanguard types, we need to get some leaders, organizers to find activities, ways of living, working, sexual relations that are productive. The Vanguard WN hate “the system” – that’s fine, understandible. So let’s give them something else, some other way to live that doesn’t invovle violent, revolutionary fantasies, wasted lives.

  2. There’s an article on yahoo this morning about how, while the GOP’s prospective Presidential candidates are all old White males, the new crop of potential Vice Presidents is full of diversity, women, “Indian Americans” (Hindus), a whole chamber pot’s worth. White conservatives better get racial fast, before the mud cult completely takes over.

  3. Jared Taylor’s comment, “Instead, he urged whites to take advantage of the rising anger against the direction in which the country is moving and to undertake the hard, painstaking work of politics,” clashes with your summary, “There is something wrong with our approach.”

    There is no “approach”, not a political one anyway, one that reflects and merits in equal and legitimate proportion the challenges.

    Taylor’s statement from last year’s conference holds: “Our greatest problem is that we have no common banner under which to rally.”

  4. Jack,

    We have already pointed out half a dozen things now the “vanguardists” could be doing. That is a subject which has been discussed to death in the comments.

    Where to start?

    Home schooling, private schools, community organizing, experimenting with agriculture, regional networking, dating services, Kievsky’s entrepreneural ideas, effective metapolitics, military training, etc. If you really and truly believed the system was going to undergo a Mad Max-style collapse in the near future, the last thing you would be doing is wasting your time on the internet.

    We know from experience that none of these activities can compete with rhetorical radicalism in cyberspace.

  5. If you really believe the system is going to collapse, you are going to change your lifestyle and spending habits.

    You would be stockpiling firearms, learning how to grow your own food, acquiring equipment which you can sell in the event of a collapse, learning how to defend yourself, securing access to a reliable supply of clean fresh water, fortifying your property, developing deep relationships with your neighbors and co-ethnics, etc.

    This idea that the system is going to collapse is more of a revenge fantasy than anything else. The proof of this is the behavior of the people who cling to that idea.

  6. And 80% of White Americans were against forced bussing in the 1970’s and 90% of whites were against forced intergration. How did that turn out? Thanks goodness for statistics, I guess we can tell every White women that has ever been brutally raped by a savage that the numbers were againest that but it didn’t work out so good. Oh well, next time we’ll vote someone good in. Wait a minute, we have been trying that since 1860 and it hasn’t worked yet.

    Let’s not even mention the 300+million that have been killed the past 100 or so years or so thanks to good ol American democracy.

  7. White Nationalists haven’t been “trying” electoral politics in a serious way since the David Duke campaigns in the early 1990s.

    The truth is that White Nationalists have spent the last seventeen years focused almost exclusively on one single form of activity: blowing off steam through posting anonymous comments on the internet.

    It is no mystery that the Left got their way on busing, immigration, and affirmative action. There was nothing in the way of a seriously organized racial resistance to these things. No one picked up the ball after the demise of Jim Crow. That is why the racial pendulum only swings in one direction.

    Look at the neocons. They infiltrated and hijacked the conservative movement. 100 percent of the pressure on the conservative movement to change its ways comes from the Left, not the Far Right.

    In the 1980s, White Nationalists were spending their time robbing banks, building bunkers in the wilderness, burning crosses in cow pastures, and parading around in Neo-Nazi costumes on main street while praying for “the collapse.”

    In 2011, White Nationalists still haven’t realized that attacking Christianity and America creates unnecessary barriers to communication with their audience. Alternatively, we could organize the public around issues like immigration and multiculturalism and become the leaders of a mass constituency.

    The cancellation of the 2011 Amren conference was instructive. Who are White Nationalists going to call when the enemy takes away their rights?

    Senator Glenn Miller? President Tom Metzger? Vanguard News Network? The National Socialist Movement? Counter-Currents Publishing?

    What about our enemies? By working through the system, they now control Hollywood, Wall Street, Washington, the most prestigious law firms, most of the mass media.

    Negroes and Hispanics have their own television stations!

    Their opposition struggles to formulate a coherent thought without blaming the Jews for a cloudy day.

  8. What’s in it for them? What are you offering? What are you prepared to give?

    In reality, many intelligent, well-educated, aware people in U.S. have no interest in either the jewish, pc, or catholic worlds with which they feel mostly presented. Whether they are heretics (catholic), racist (pc ), golem/goy (jew), it is all the same to them.

    They could not care less for things Roman, other than to view the Roman empire with distaste for its sheer brute-stupid bloodiness, nor care less about its anti-islam rag and wanting to re-live its glory days of the old empire, anymore than israel’s problems, which is to say it could care less about the country’s wars– other than that their kids are forced to fight them b/c there are no jobs. How do any of the issues on the table address their self-determination at all?

    Often intelligent, well-educated, informed, disaffected and expert in the art of dissimulation— they simply can’t fathom what is in it for them.

    They: had liked their religion, their freedoms, the relative peace in the country they’d put together; their history, their lived experience. But the others have rejected this. They haven’t seen much on the table they have wanted for 80 years, often back to the civil war—and have good reasons to dislike just about everybody.

    Besides which, in their view, for 600 years, they put up with rounds of battery from both jews and catholics primarily, and were blessed to be left alone for awhile in America. So, can you offer what they want: freedom for them to be themselves again?

    Other than estimations of their stupidity, what do you have? “They should love their race?”— well, they just think OTHER white people who flooded the country should have cared about THEIR race, but they didn’t. Now, did they? The others “wanted what they wanted” and now it’s backfired on them, so why should they care?

    For people who have identified as (and been persecuted as) “colonists,” as “settlers,” “slavers,” “indian killers,” through “de-colonization” processes, for which both jews and catholics were perceived —right or wrong— as spearheads, and who, due to genetics (German being the largest oldest-generation ethnic group in the country) have also been affected by Anti-Germanism, as well as born the brunt of anti-English-ism, etc.—

    What do you offer? How are you going to make their lives better?

  9. “What about our enemies? By working through the system, they now control Hollywood, Wall Street, Washington, the most prestigious law firms, most of the mass media. ”

    They also had the checkbooks of some of the world’s wealthiest men at their disposal, as well as the vast financial power of the Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc., Foundations to draw money from.

    As far as the public being lemmings, they are. After so many decades of living, there are about a dozen things that I now know for absolute certainty, and that is one of them. Yes, the polls are probably correct. Yes, most of the public do not agree and are against this and that.

    And YES, all it takes to sway them is a few Authority” figures with the right “credentials” to tell them that up is going to be down tomorrow and they will fall for it once again.

    Is there a collapse coming? I don’t see how not. I also have “got the drift,” from reading on here and from unflattering comments here and elsewhere, why Hunter Wallace might not be as perceptive on this. When I was a kid and teenager I did not perceive much financial trouble either while I was simply picking up my lunch money off the kitchen table every morning. I am not saying this as denigrating, per se, just making an observation.

    The cost of things is simply ridiculous and right at about teen times what it should be. For years now the average person has just peeled off that long green whenever they bought something or had a service and done so like money was always going to be in ready supply, and one could simply work a few more overtime hours next week to make up for it. But that time is passing and having to peel off a hundred dollar bill every time one goes out the door or even turns around cannot be sustained forever. It is getting dammed hard to do. I am sure many know exactly what I am talking about.

  10. PS—

    Many average Americans look at t.v. They know their tax dollars have been spent educating the people they view, on msm and in their government—- people not only not of their race, but who do not acknowledge in any real way their religion or its legacy in what they once thought of as “their own” country.

    Regardless of what happens, they just do not really see a future for their children—among the foreigners and first, second, or third generation “americans” (after all, they are just as “documented” as the blood relatives of the founders).

    While it may be true that they envision a more peaceful domestic situation under European foreigners than Asian or African—whatever way one cuts it, generations of the american workers’ money has been spent education other peoples’ children for good positions, especially in perpetuating the system, through teaching, governance. Nor is it really true that they see more domestic peace, anyway—as the groups most recently from europe are very invested in overseas “adventures,” and this means remnants in the population, exactly as now, who remain loyal to their homelands.

    Many Americans were separate from Europe, on the practical level, for hundreds of years. They saw many things they did, actually, as an advance BEYOND Europe, advances that Europe (or the new American populations) have no interest in. A third generation American would never think to wonder about the 13th generation Americans, or even believe they are worth knowing about. They communicate this all the time.

    There was a guy on Beck, an immigrant here for 5 years who was furious! He’d been “in line.” (A line to the country, lol!!!) He was furious—- but no one producing the Beck show could even consider that this was a humorous commentary—no? They were all furious at having “done it right” (as Sean Hannity says his family did a couple years back)—- but none would even consider any rights of those in the country 10 generations, or even imagine what they think, listening to all this, and so on.

    Greed, envy, climbing, reaching for false status— unless one really acknowledged the history that was taught before, where first things were first, and the colonists, and their realities were significant, as well as their religion, and so on—- you can only produce some other country.

    Also— what wn seems most to suggest about “America”—- is a vision of foreign “whites” as the governance in the new “european welfare state,” which still looks nothing like the america people actually wanted to live in. Maybe that’s a reason they don’t get excited about it.

    The T-party at least seemed to have American energy that could include the sort of “settler” type peoples, “mid-america,” etc.—- populations wn maligns quite regularly.

  11. I believe that the United States of America, like every country that has ever existed, will “die” some day.

    Mortality is a fact, for societies as well as individuals.

    Believing in death is not believing in miracles.

    No, believing that sick old men can recover their health — or that the dead can come back to life — now that is believing in miracles.

    The United States is not merely mortal, like every society, it is sick, and it is doing everything to make the sickness worse. America is the equivalent of a disspated old alcoholic reaching for another beer, a heroin addict jonesing for another fix, an obese couch potato reaching for another donut.

    Saving this country by running for the school board? That’s belief in miracles.

  12. Greg,

    Thanks for illustrating my point.

    (1) By preaching the destruction of America, Greg Johnson and Michael O’Meara isolate themselves from progressives, moderates, conservatives, nationalists and the majority of racialists in the United States.

    Through their own actions, they have marginalized themselves and narrowed their audience down to less than 1 percent of the White population. The only people who respond well to such a message are sociopaths and extremely alienated vanguardists.

    This reinforces their inability to communicate with White America. It also reinforces the perception that White Nationalists are hostile to ordinary White people.

    (2) The only thing that is accomplished by preaching the destruction of the United States is that vanguardists get a rush from venting their frustrations. This only goes to show that no serious political point is being made here.

    It is all about expressing the alienation of the individual from society. This is therapy and exhibitionism, not political activism.

    (3) In the event of a real collapse of the system, the last people in America that the White majority would turn to are people who have gone out of their way to make themselves a public nuisance.

    (4) In the event of any real collapse of the system, power would devolve to state and local authority figures who have the organization and legitimacy to seize power. This is one reason it makes sense to work through the system and become a respected authority figure at the local level.

    (5) The system hasn’t “collapsed” in forty two consecutive years. The Roman Empire endured for almost half a millennium. There is no reason to believe that White Nationalists would rise to power anyway in the event of such a calamity.

    (6) We are dealing with a messaging problem, an organizational problem, a leadership problem here. The public agrees with us on most of our issues.

    (7) The perceived kookiness and illegitimacy of the White Nationalist movement has created a stigma that deters otherwise sensible people who agree with us on issues like immigration from joining the White Nationalist movement.

    Showing a different face through success in state and local politics would go a long way towards publicizing the movement and changing our public image.

  13. Brutus,

    I hate to burst your bubble, but the Jews haven’t always been so wealthy in this country. Many of them came here dirt poor from Eastern Europe to work as a cheap labor supply in Northern industries.

    Jews got where they are today through working within the system.

  14. Faustus,

    I didn’t go to Amren because I wasn’t sure if there was even going to be a conference. It is a good thing that I didn’t buy a plane ticket or reserve a hotel room.

  15. @ Hunter

    The wealthy German, English & Dutch banking and commercial Jews living in the major costal cities like New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia, or in the big interior cities like Chicago, Pittsburgh etc. spent vast fortunes to bring the Eastern & Southern European Jews to the US.

  16. “Mr. Taylor chided some race realists for believing in their own miracle: that the economic and social systems will soon collapse, and that a strong white racial consciousness will emerge from the rubble.”

    I still hope there will be a massive white rebellion at some point. If not, I think the collapse will happen in slow motion. Taylor is right that we should not wait for a brutal collapse and the resulting revolution. But I like to think that the destruction cannot go on indefinitely with so little reaction from white people.

    As K.MacDonald said: “At some point the negative consequences to the European population of the U.S. of multicultural ideology and massive influx of other peoples will become so obvious that current levels of control will be ineffective.”

  17. “Vanguardists” believe that the White majority are “lemmings” who dance to whatever tune is played by an elite cabal of string pullers in the mass media.”

    Most people have always been against immigration. And I’m sure they are a hundred times more anti-immigration than they imagine they are. Under a pro-white regime, 99% of the Whites would take position against immigration, and we would simply expel the rest. What justifies the lemming comparison is that people are not rebelling at this moment when rebellion has never been more urgent and vital.

    The media are effective, not in convincing people that immigration is great, but in preventing any public rebellious discourse. (They are also good at defaming, demonizing, and things like that). If a lemming sees other people rebelling, he will rebel too. The lemming is not stupid or cowardly, but he won’t take action if he is the only one to do so. He needs social approval. Unfortunately, the Jew sends false signals to the Lemming, mimicking peer pressure. It is a little like the canned laughter in a radio show: it has an effect on you even though you know it is fake laughter.

    Even WNs are lemmings. It is in human nature. For example, if you want to lure them to take part in a street action, you should pay a few people to stage a phony WN demonstration. Then you post the footage on the internet. Then you may have a few real WNs taking part in the next street action. If you want people to send you money, simply post a sign on your blog: “Stop contributing money, I have too much already!”. People will think that every one else is doing it, and they will chip in too.

  18. Armor,

    I disagree.

    (1) The notion that ordinary White people are “lemmings” is based on the idea that the mainstream media is able to passively mold public opinion. It is also based on the idea that moral sentiments are simply the effusions of powerful elites.

    This is contradicted by multiple lines of evidence. The public is clearly at odds with the mainstream media and political class on immigration, multiculturalism, and affirmative action.

    The defeat of the DREAM Act three times last year, not to mention the unpopularity of the Obamacare boondoggle, or the widespread belief that Obama is secretly a Muslim and not a U.S. citizen, proves that ordinary White people are capable of weighing the evidence and formulating their own opinions.

    (2) I have a much simpler explanation.

    The reason that the “lemmings” are not rebelling is because their would be saviors come across as grossly unsympathetic, disagreeable, and incompetent. This is the result of a failure to communicate.

    The inability of White Nationalists to organize a credible and effective opposition is why White Americans prefer to channel their resentments through conservative venues.

    (3) The mainstream media spent over a year attacking the “tea baggers” and the “town hall mobs” and the “hatemongers” on talk radio.

    As a result, 20 percent of Americans have “a great deal” of confidence in the mainstream media. 11 percent approved of Congress under Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

    The mainstream media doesn’t have the legitimacy to mold public opinion. This is also seen in the declining circulation of mainstream newspapers and magazines.

    (4) The real “lemmings” are White Nationalists who seem to believe that marginalizing themselves and miracles are viable solutions to our problems.

    Why on earth would disillusioned White people identify with White Nationalism? That is the real question.

    The approach White Nationalists are taking toward White America explains their inability to get anywhere with the public.

  19. It’s not just “vanguardists” who expect a collapse. A lot of normal White men that I am acquainted with, most of them successful skilled tradesmen, believe that things will become so bad that major civil violence will occur. Specifically, they think that the economy will collapse and that Darks will riot on a massive scale. These men are old enough to remember how things were, and so judge the decline that we’re in. As far as preparation, they generally count on their own skills to pull them through. They are homeowners, they have disaster kits and guns, but I think they really expect to get by because they are actually useful and capable members of society.

  20. Why are WNists the only ones who can’t get anything done through the system? No other race appears to be counting on a collapse to help advance their objectives.

  21. The short answer Lew is that the system has been rigged to set whites on the road to extinction.

    Everything can be tolerated except whites organizing as whites to save our race.

  22. LEW: I don’t know that I’m counting on a collapse, rather, I’m expecting one. Perhaps I lack the imagination, but I just don’t see how 300 million people can support this lavish life when so few of them do any productive work. I don’t see how any government can save us when they devote more effort into lying about problems than trying to fix them. I don’t see that China will accept our bad checks forever. I think that the powers that be know this as well and are feathering their nests while they can. There are plenty of examples of 3rd World rulers looting their countries and fleeing when things fell apart. There are also examples of European nobles doing the same during the 18th and 19th centuries, grabbing their jewel packed luggage and making for the border. Whether or not there is severe unrest in this country is, I think, dependent on the speed of the collapse. Will people have time to adjust and accept their lower standard of living, or will they strike back?

  23. HW: “(1) The notion that ordinary White people are “lemmings”

    I don’t think the comparison with lemmings is a sign of contempt. It is more funny than offensive. There is no doubt that people behave a lot like lemmings. I like to listen to the recordings of William Pierce’s radio broadcasts, where there is much talk of lemmings (monkey see, monkey do!). I think he used to say that only about 2% of people have enough of an independent mind and care enough about their nation to be persuaded by the logical arguments of the nationalists. I agree that this is contradicted by the fact that most people are naturally against immigration and don’t need much persuasion in the first place. But the masses remain naive in many ways. And they will be unable to put up any resistance until they are organized by dedicated activists.

    In a March 2000 broadcast, with the title “Elites vs. Masses”, Pierce said it was crucial to try to persuade independent-minded people among the elites :

    “Money and the media and politics may seem all-powerful at first glance, but all of these elements of power are completely dependent on a technocratic elite, an elite that understands the mechanism that keeps the wheels turning and that has its hands on the levers that control the machine.”

    He wasn’t referring to an intellectual elite but to a technocratic elite. I would be surprised to know that some WNs are still specifically trying to recruit from the technocratic elites. Maybe this is what would be done if the pro-white movement had tons of money.

    In fact, I think members of the technocratic elite may not come out in favor of white interests unless they are encouraged by strong, organized popular support.

  24. “Brutus,

    I hate to burst your bubble, but the Jews haven’t always been so wealthy in this country. Many of them came here dirt poor from Eastern Europe to work as a cheap labor supply in Northern industries.

    Jews got where they are today through working within the system.”

    I , on the other hand, do not mind at all to burst your bubble.

    For a start, I wasn’t talking about, as is obvious, “dirt poor Jews working in Northern factories. I was not even exclusively talking about Jews.

    You are flat out now pushing bullshit to boost your crusade here. Everyone with the slightest bit of knowledge of how Social and economic Marxism, and all else, became entrenched in this country was by way of extremely wealthy men and grants from foundations.

    But what is the use going on here? It is now clear that you are just the latest in a long stream of people to come along and try to build a niche for yourself in this cauldron of upheaval and dispossession. It is true that there is much truth and even wisdom in much of your writing, but the same can actually be said of the worst kooks come to think of it. There are always diamonds in ruff. But you are spinning information, stories, political happenings, etc., into a mold that best fits the niche you seek to carve out. That is all. And often your responses and rebukes read as though put forth by someone without much furniture upstairs, or at least on a reading comprehension level par with the worst of “Progressive” Liberals who defend their philosophy and doings.

  25. Brutus,

    (1) Eastern European Jewry did not arrive in America on Ford Foundation scholarships. They arrived here unceremoniously to work as a cheap labor workforce like the Poles and Italians from Southern and Eastern Europe.

    (2) Jews were much more heavily involved in the Labor movement in the early twentieth century because they were predominantly working class at the time.

    It took about three or four decades for them to rise into the middle class and then upward into the American elite in the 1950s and 1960s. They pulled this off through a combination of hard work, ethnic networking, raw intelligence, and entrepreneurialism.

    (3) Wasn’t Henry Ford himself naming the Jew in the 1920s?

    (4) The Jewish hijacking of major foundations came in a later stage of their ethnic activism. It was the product of the spearhead they had established in earlier years.

  26. Armor,

    (1) In spite of all the brainwashing of the mainstream media, the political class is widely despised in White America, and so is their agenda of free trade, immigration, and anti-White multiculturalism.

    Let’s give ordinary people some credit.

    They can see through the lies of the mainstream media on most subjects. The problem is not so much on their end. The polling data shows that the “lemmings” should actually respond well to our policy proposals.

    The problem is clearly in the leadership of the White Nationalist movement and more specifically its strategy and tactics for engaging the public. This bodes well for us because it means we could probably enjoy more success simply by changing a few things about our approach.

    (2) William Pierce focused on trying to reach those “independent thinkers.” Unwittingly, that was a major part of his problem.

    I said above that the “independent thinkers” (the ones who can see through the media bias and appreciate a radical message) have a personality type that disinclines them interacting well with ordinary people. Intellectuals are the most tone deaf people in the world.

    Counter-Currents is a spectacular example of this: alliances with North Korea and Iran, using violence to resolve political disputes, transforming White people into elves from Lord of the Rings, man-animal chimeras, state arranged marriages, Nazi UFOs, destroying Christianity, Hyperborean supermen from Atlantis, etc.

    These people sit around and wonder why they are marginalized. Some external factor is always to blame. It can’t be attributable to anything they themselves are doing.

    It never occurs to them that their message and form of communication guarantees a rock solid ceiling of a potential audience less than 1 percent of the White population of the United States.

  27. Brutus, ich höre dich.

    Hunter, where are your real-world results? For months now you’ve been obsessed with using selective social misfits to draw distinctions between Vanguardist vs Mainstream ideologies. If the biggest difference between a Vanguardist and Mainstreamer is the Vanguardist’s propensity to dwell in cyberspace, touting the genius of their reasoning and strategies, then where do you fit in this exactly? In case you haven’t been paying attention to your own BS, your incessant mantra exists almost entirely on the Internet. You have daily virtual slap-fights, and then turn around like you’ve separated yourself from the pariahs.

    If you were really able to separate yourself from sociopaths and perpetual losers, you would have never had the Time to spend on this subject. What man who is truly building something “better” has the Time to spend on things that are beneath him?

  28. HW: “The problem is clearly in the leadership of the White Nationalist movement”

    Who should be blamed :

    1. Our enemies (Jewish activists, leftist lunatics, a few employers…)

    2. Our cowardly non-Jewish “elites” (politicians, technocrats, economists…) who are afraid to do their job and speak up against race-replacement

    3. Normal intelligent people who are not active in the WN movement

    4. WNs, if they are not effective

    In fact, the WNs should be blamed last!

  29. Celestial Time is right. HW postures as a person who has turned his back on “Vanguardism” (which is quite a big tent that at times even includes non-WNs like Tim McVeigh, the OKC bomber) and is instead offering concrete, constructive analysis for making progress in the real world. Yet he can’t go five minutes without attacking us. Why is that?

    If he were really serious about constructive mainstreaming he would have ditched this site and identity a long time ago. But he didn’t because (1) he would lose his audience (he is losing it anyway–he has less than half the readership he did back in June when he started attacking me and “Vanguardists”) and have to start over from scratch, which would not feed his ego needs, and (2) he really isn’t serious about constructive mainstreaming; that is just a posture, a standpoint adopted from which to do exactly what he is doing, namely being a divisive, destructive force; keeping up the vicious, madhouse atmosphere that guarantees that our movement will always be small, dumb, and marginal. This also feeds his narcissistic ego.

    I have seen people like HW before. They posture as ambassadors from our little movement to the great mainstream. They seek to set themselves up as arbiters of what is kooky and what will fly in Peoria. They have a small audience of people who combine right thinking on racial issues with gutless bourgeois timidity and sentimental conservatism. The self-appointed ambassadors and arbiters spend most of their time riding herd on these timid types, usually by constructing vicious, SPLC type smears of anyone to their right to scare their cowardly constituents back into line. People like that generally have narcissistic personality disorders. They accomplish nothing for the cause. They just set themselves up as little agitators around which an atmosphere of perpetual drama and malevolence spins. Most people find such an atmosphere emotionally draining, but these sickos feed on it.

    Wallace peddles the kind of smears and distortions of what I publish at Counter-Currents that the SPLC could quote verbatim. Is that constructive?

    A year ago, under my influence, Hunter was laying out a perfectly workable model by which the more vanguardist and mainstream elements of the movement could work together amicably, coordinating behind the scenes, while publicly appearing to be radically different.

    The idea was the everyone in this cause gets to choose his level or explicitness and involvement.

    Everyone else needs to respect that.

    We will create a vast web of discursive spaces selling our message to every possible constituency.

    Some of us who are so inclined might even get involved in politics. But the optimal proportion is probably 80% metapolitics and 20% politics.

    Different WNs must spend all their time engaging the enemy, not attacking people to their left as cowards or to their right as kooks. Jared Taylor, to his credit, stays on message and does not spend his time attacking the Alex Linders of our cause.

    Different WNs do not waste their time in destructive criticism of other WNs. They just get out there and do what they think should be done, on the assumption that if they do something good, they will attract supporters.

    It is a perfectly workable model. Unfortunately, HW himself turned out to have severe personality disorders and an alarming history not only of mental illness but of phishing, hacking, stalking, trolling, and other behaviors that make him unfit for polite society.

    I am still all for that vast spectrum of discursive spaces. I am still all for that basic etiquette that would allow all strains of WNs to cooperate. Hell, I would still be for trying to find a place for the crazies among us. But crazy people are . . . crazy. You can’t build anything good, effective, or lasting with such flawed material.

  30. I’m always amused when The Cat Lady accuses me of having a “severe personality disorder.”

    Any disinterested observer can review and contrast the content of our respective websites and arrive at their own estimate of who is crazy.

    I mean … honestly, it is not everyday that a kook who tells his readers that he is secretly God calls other people crazy! That’s something you only see in the White Nationalist movement.

    More on this after dinner.

  31. “(1) Eastern European Jewry did not arrive in America on Ford Foundation scholarships. They arrived here unceremoniously to work as a cheap labor workforce like the Poles and Italians from Southern and Eastern Europe.

    (2) Jews were much more heavily involved in the Labor movement in the early twentieth century because they were predominantly working class at the time.

    It took about three or four decades for them to rise into the middle class and then upward into the American elite in the 1950s and 1960s. They pulled this off through a combination of hard work, ethnic networking, raw intelligence, and entrepreneurialism.

    (3) Wasn’t Henry Ford himself naming the Jew in the 1920s?

    (4) The Jewish hijacking of major foundations came in a later stage of their ethnic activism. It was the product of the spearhead they had established in earlier years.”

    WHAT has this got to do with my original post anyway, Hunter????????????

    Was I even talking about Jews? Was I even talking specifically about “Eastern European Jews?” Did I say I was specifically talking about Jews, Eastern European or otherwise? Did I state any form of restriction in my post about whom I was talking about?


    I was talking about the people who have been pushing and causing the drastic changes in our society. So why in hell did you focus on Jews? A straw man if ever I saw one.

    But since Henry Ford was talking about Jews in the 1920s, why was he doing this if they were only dirt poor factory workers?

    Also, contemporaries, i.e., people who were alive and living in the time in question, flat out contradict you about this anyway.

  32. Here’s the truth about Greg Johnson.

    The people who know him best will confirm this description. Some of these people have known Greg Johnson for nearly a decade and were finally compelled to take the extreme step of ostracizing him from White Nationalist circles.

    (1) Greg Johnson is a homosexual.

    There are plenty of people who are homosexuals who do not let their deviant lifestyles influence their political views. At the same time, there are homosexuals who are attracted to certain political ideologies on account of their sexuality, who are simply unable to keep “the gay thing” in its proper sphere.

    Most of these people trend to the Left. A few of them migrate to the Right.

    What’s that quip? No one fantasizes about being hog tied and sodomized by a liberal.

    It is well known that National Socialism attracted homosexuals like moths to a flame. They were enticed by the snazzy uniforms, the aggressive masculinity, the authoritarianism, the emphasis on aesthetics, the disproportionate number of single men, the young boys … all these things were like catnip to German homosexuals.

    Hitler went through great pains to rid the National Socialist movement of Ernst Roehm and his brigade of perverts. Homosexuality was strongly discouraged in the Third Reich.

    In spite of this, homosexuals like Greg Johnson have long remained fascinated by the allure of fascism, which finds its modern iteration in Neo-Nazism. It appeals to the alienated, bootlicking nature of submissive male queers who yearn to be dominated by aggressive men like Alex Linder.

    Some of them become Catholic priests. Some become Neo-Nazis.

    This type of crazy alienated rhetoric … the rage of homosexuals against mainstream society … you can see it in the Hide/Seek exhibit (which features fire arts crawling over a crucifix) at the Smithsonian.

    You can also see it in the rhetoric of alienated rightwing homosexuals like D.H. Lawrence and Yukio Mishima who are featured all the time in glowing “profiles in courage” rave reviews at Counter-Currents.

    Greg Johnson is very much influenced by his own homosexuality. Just look at his antipathy toward America, his hatred of Christianity, his fawning embrace of totalitarian government, his admiration for strong dictators, his refusal to stop coming here, his fascination with Mishima and Lawrence … it goes right down to his choice of residence.

    Here is someone who doesn’t have a real job who is bent on living in one of the most expensive cities in America … San Francisco, CA.

    Now why is that?

    Because it is full of flamboyant homosexuals and leftwing nutcases … Greg Johnson’s type of people … unlike Montana where he hails from or Georgia where he once lived where it would be far less expensive to live for someone with such insufficient means to rent a house.

    (2) Greg Johnson is a parasite.

    Greg Johnson’s homosexuality doesn’t fully explain his tastes or ideology, but it certainly explains a great deal of it. The second most important thing you need to know about Greg Johnson is that he is an unemployable sponge.

    Johnson refuses as a matter of principle to get a real job. It is beneath the grandeur of His Royal Highness to work for a living. How can you be a member in good standing of the “nascent aristocracy” if you have to dirty your hands in America’s capitalist economy?

    Homosexuals are typically quite industrious people. I have some gay neighbors back home who remodel houses for profit. They can turn the most run down house into an attractive place to live in a matter of months.

    This is not true of Greg Johnson. He is a flighty, impractical intellectual who likes to spend his time daydreaming about his favorite abstractions. This has the unfortunate side effect of not generating the physical means to support himself.

    This aspect of Johnson’s personality explains a lot about his behavior.

    As someone who is incapable of supporting himself, he needs to hoodwink other people into subsidizing his lifestyle. There is a strong economic incentive to propagate a certain kind of message … in order to reach as many suckers as possible.

    (3) Greg Johnson is a con-artist.

    As we saw above, Greg Johnson’s homosexuality inclines him toward fascism, and his lack of a work ethic means that he has to find other people to constantly shake down for money, preferably gullible people who are willing to part ways with their cash without argument … people who are willing to get nothing in exchange for something out of pure idealism.

    So where do you find people like that? In the White Nationalist movement, of course! Vanguard sector.

    We have plenty of people in the White Nationalist movement who are angry at society, who are desperate, who are alienated and looking for community, and willing to exchange their hard earned money for a false sense of hope and promises of “elite status” in some vaguely defined future society.

    It is a huckster’s paradise!

    That’s why at Counter-Currents, which is for “quality” instead of “quantity,” which is against “American materialism,” which is against the “modern world” … you can still use your VISA or Mastercard to buy yourself “vanguard” status in the White Nationalist movement for a one time cash donation of $120 to Greg Johnson.

    This explains several other things.

    If you read up on any of the great charlatans of the past, you will find that a critical part of their act is based on keeping everything deliberately vague and the rewards to the individual are held out as a lure at some point in the distant future.

    In the distant future, the system will collapse, and you will be an aristocrat in our new White ethnostate. Unfortunately, I can’t tell you when that will happen, but I can assure you that it is coming.

    Send your check today.

    The hucksters and con-artists operating in the White Nationalist movement (like they do every other movement) are competing with each other and with other groups for limited financial resources.

    That’s why Greg Johnson suddenly started saying I was “crazy” in May 2010 after he lost his job at TOQ Online and the checks stopped coming.

    I wasn’t “crazy” in March 2010 or October 2009 when Johnson was plagiarizing this website … to promote himself, to get other people to do his job for him, of course.

    The fact is, White Nationalists could do any number of productive things with their money: they could use it to gain influence over the political process, finance migrating White Zionist groups, support groups like NumbersUSA which are legitimate and effective, invest and save their money and earn a return on their capital, etc.

    People who are thinking rationally (they need to be trained to be irrational) will use their money in effective ways where they earn some type of return off their investment. They teach you that in business school.

    That’s what Greg Johnson calls the competition!

    Frauds and hucksters like Greg Johnson and Alex Linder are vampires who exploit the idealism of good people to financially profit from their desperation and gullibility. They should be shunned in the White Nationalist movement.

    In fact, Greg Johnson is already shunned from polite circles for that very reason. The people who know Johnson best are familiar with his act and have kicked him to the curb.

    So should everyone else.

  33. On a final note, The Cat Lady has been sent back to Counter-Currents, which is the only proven way to end his endless trolling in the comments.

    As always, he comes to this website, starts a food fight, and then accuses others of “attacking” him.

    Drama queen, LOL.

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