Northwest Debate

50 Comments

1. Well, Jimmy Marr, you can look at the Chicago Fire as a fortunate event for all the friends that you made while trying to put it out, if you like. That’s how I look at this, as putting out a fire. I would rather be working on my national-socialist stuff.

2. Hadding,

   Your perspective is as redemptive as that of a Dresden bombardier.

3. Well Mr. Jimmy Marr I think you are starting to redeem yourself a little bit by at least noticing what a misanthrope Covington is. That hatefulness usually comes out a lot more clearly in his sockpuppets like Dread_Lord, which also are characterized by a lot of foul language.

4. Jimmy,

   I’ve never criticized:

   (1) Building White Nationalist networks in any region of the country.

   (2) More face to face action.

   (3) The concept of White Zionism itself. I mean it is obvious that some people are going to move anyway. It is also only natural to want to live among people who share your ideological views.

   (4) The Northwest itself, really. I’ve said several times now that Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming seem like a more logical place to go.

   Here’s what I don’t understand:

   – Why does the above have to be tied to a program of violent revolution? White Zionists don’t have the numbers to sustain any such revolt. Just look at what happened to Glenn Miller and the White Patriot Party. They were operating in far more hospitable territory, a former Jim Crow state, than the I-5 corridor.

   – Deliberately trying to attract unstable people into your community. This strikes me as strapping dynamite to your own project.

   – This criticism of forming “Beavercleaverville” communities. It strikes me as incredibly naive to believe that White people will fight for racial altruism, the ideology of National Socialism, and an abstract model of a White ethnostate … before they will fight for their own homes, families, religion and co-ethnics.

   Only an intellectual could deceive themselves into believing something like that.

5. National sovereignty is pretty meaningless these days.

   The best example of this is Ireland. It is an independent country. It is geographically far removed from the United States.

   Yet the poisonous degenerate culture of multiculturalism and anti-racism has sunk deep roots there too. Just like it has in every other European country. Eastern Europeans were listening to Michael Jackson from behind the Iron Curtain!

   Even if the Northwest Republic were to win independence by some miracle, the same degenerate culture would seep through the cracks, and would poison the minds of the people who live there.

   What are you shooting for here? The best you can hope for is becoming an isolated backwater like Cuba, Libya, North Korea, or Burma under constant harassment from the United States and its allies. Those places also had the advantage of powerful state sponsors not being geographically contiguous with the United States.

   The example White Zionists really ought to look to is the Amish who have managed to maintain their distinctiveness even in a place as Amercanized as Pennsylvania.

6. Despite appearances, Glenn Miller’s White Patriot Party really was not a paramilitary organization, any more than the Boy Scouts. The WPP seems to have been a social organization for racists that liked to do target practice and occasionally stage a march and public rally, which could be pretty impressive because of the number of White men all dressed the same and acting in unison. Southern Rednecks like barbecues, they like shooting, and they like dressing up as soldiers. The WPP grew to a significant size mainly because Miller understood how to make it fun.

   This was not however a fighting force. When Glenn Miller went “underground” he had only two or three companions, who weren’t even from the WPP but with Posse Comitatus.

7. Hunter Wallace: “Why does the above have to be tied to a program of violent revolution?”

   No one I’ve met among the readership of the NW Quartet is tied to a program of violent revolution any more than gun owners are tied to murder.

   The idea, as I understand it, is that ZOG will eventually collapse under the weight the weight of its own evil, and certain White folks might prefer to be in the proximity of certain other White folks when anarchy ensues.

   Meanwhile, its probably more realistic to think of us as a reading group operating without the guidance of Oprah Winfrey.

   Scary, huh?

8. The idea, as I understand it, is that ZOG will eventually collapse under the weight the weight of its own evil,

   That’s religion, not political theory. If the Roman Empire breathed its last in 1453, and officially in 1806, how much more durable will be Kwa? An empire is not an object that operates in discrete fashion. It is an “it” only in speech, really. It doesn’t break down like a truck or collapse like a bridge onto the heads of the bums sleeping under it. White Nationalism belief exactly parallels the Christians’ apocalypse. “Something”, that is not a discrete entity but a vast complex assemblage and interaction of things, like empire has duration and therefore does not collapse, but gradually becomes “something” else — over generations. So you can forget collapse and anarchy. What we’re living now is what we’ll be living generations from now. ‘Idiocracy’ is much wiser prognosis than anything in Covington’s imagination.

9. Wandrin,

   BUGS is what?

   HW,

   Excellent essay. Readers who see this only as a critique of Covington are missing the deeper critique of WN ideology as such. I agree with you on everything, including the nod to the Amish way. Then again, I just saw a blindingly Aryan Mennonite woman and her daughter in lovely traditional garb pissing on the street here in Guatemala City. LOL.

   Hadding,

   I agree with you with regard to the success of the NSDAP. However, I believe HW has in mind, for example, the original 25 Points or Gottfried Feder’s economic theory, the ideological minutiae that were lost in the welter of larger events.

   MY SOLUTION: Follow HW’s advice and move to one of the whitest states. Just do it. Don’t look for followers or compatriots. They don’t exist. Then, follow Wandrin’s program of kulchurkamf, if you still feel a need to bother with moderns.

10. I’ve been out of the loop for a while, so what went down, some fool from VNNF planted a bomb?

11. Hi uh,

    It’s good to hear from you. I’ve been a little worried about you in my own distracted way. You’re right about my ideas having a religious quality. I’ve been fascinated recently with some of the ideas Serrano expresses in this interview:
    http://allfatherwotan.org/serranointerview.html

12. Are you serious we just talked about this last week, why would you even bother discussing a topic that you feel has no material impact? Unless it actuall does have an impact, I noticed you left out Montana while it is included your missing the significant and growing PLE of April Gade and there are many who just want PLE and that will grow in a decade to something more.
    I dont see how throwing stones at activist like HAC who are doing something and believe in it enough to take to the level he has.
    Me I am father who is a professional I have a MSS and I am no nut job, I have seen the work of HAC on a personal level in the lives of many including my self who have in the name of “White Flight”, moved to the PNW and will remain with the knoweldge of what happened in Cali and will work to ensure on a civil level it never happens here.

13. Jimmy Marr says: “No one I’ve met among the readership of the NW Quartet is tied to a program of violent revolution any more than gun owners are tied to murder.”

    Just off the top of my head, I recall that Covington rushed out a podcast immediately after the Loughner shooting, and laid such a heavy ironic tone on his disclaimer that he would never advocate such a deed, that even an imbecile would get the impression that he’s all for it. He referred to it as the “Jew and judge shooting” if I recall correctly.

    Covington is clearly winking at violence all the time in his podcasts. In his podcast of 18 November 2010 he seems to say that if we were men of good character and properly organized, Tim Wise should be killed. http://67.76.185.229:7555/content/Covington_18Nov2010.pls That kind of retaliatory killing of celebrities figures very prominently in his fiction.

    The fact that Covington said that in late 2010 we would have been doing such things if we had followed his plan means that he is not really advocating that his insurrection wait until the system be substantially more decrepit than it is now, as some of his defenders insist. His love for the IRA as a role-model organization also belies that.

    Of course since Covington always plays cute and keeps just a touch of ambiguity in these statements he can deny his obvious meaning, but on The Occiddental Observer Jimmy Marr said this: “The revolutionary position can never be legally articulated in cyberspace.” That pretty well nails down that illegal activity is contemplated.

    I would suggest that you abort that plan, because if I can figure it out from statements published online, you know the government can, and they will certainly send provocateurs to encourage Covington’s dunces, drunkards, and psychos to speak as incautiously as possible.

14. Review of Harold Covington’s Podcast dated 3 February 2011, originally posted on Facebook. This is in response to Dan Neil and Jimmy Marr.

    Since Harold Covington has messaged the URL for his latest podcast to everybody on this forum, I won’t repost it here. But I will discuss the content.

    Covington’s analysis of the Egyptian situation seems reasonable and it’s pretty much what I would have said if I had been interested enough to say something about it. What you have in Egypt is a populist uprising against a US-backed oligarchy. The government that replaces it is not going to be a liberal democracy, because liberal democracies are too easily taken over by money and foreign influence, and also because the character of that region’s population is fundamentally intolerant and unsuited to representative government of the kind that barely works under the best circumstances in Northern Europe. It will be another authoritarian government but probably one that is closer to the sentiments of the people outside of the present oligarchy, which means among other things, not friendly to Israel and less susceptible to US influence.

    History is Covington’s strong point, and he really sounds on the ball until he says that he thinks MOSSADEQ was ruling Baghdad when Saddam Hussein participated in a failed a coup-attempt in 1959 (against General Qassim). Why doesn’t Covington check these things? Besides, I thought everybody knew that Mossadeq was the IRANian head of state that Eisenhower had the CIA overthrow. This should be ingrained in the mind of anybody that lived through all the talk about the Shah in the late 70s, but then Covington at that time was very busy with other things (with Frank Collin’s NSPA and all the drama surrounding that).

    Then Covington goes advocating violent revolution, which he does frequently. The reality is, nobody is going to “remove the United States from power” until the U.S. Government is essentially defunct anyway. The Confederate States of America had a reasonable shot at secession if they could have gotten some powerful foreign assistance. I don’t see any state or collection of states having that good a chance at unilateral secession until the Federal Government has already withered into total impotence, which it may do, but probably not until some decades from now.

    Defeatism regarding the possibility of establishing racial communities is a constant theme with Covington. He always says that the Federal Government won’t let you do that. If the Feds won’t allow that then what is the chance that they will allow unilateral secession?

    There are de facto racial communities all over the country already. Whole regions even. Otherwise there would be no point to “White flight.” Blacks are concentrated in big cities, coastal lowlands, and river valleys.

    Part of Covington’s argument here is based on the assumption that the people in a White community will obediently comply with Federal pressure. He makes the either/or assumption that anybody not wanting to buy into his “Northwest Republic” pie in the sky ipso facto has no will to resist at all.

    The resistance put up by Southern politicians against the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations in their efforts to force racial integration was quite lame. No state governor took an uncompromising position to set an example for the people of his state. No state politician chose prison over submission to Federal will, as they should have done. That would have trumped the moral-martyrdom posturing of “civil rights” demonstrators getting arrested or hosed down in the street. It would have been a giant headache and embarrassment for the Federal Government to put a duly elected governor of a state in prison, but Wallace, Faubus, and Barnett after staging a token resistance unfortunately didn’t stand their ground.

    Covington indulges some talk about committing sadistic acts of violence against Blacks. Setting them on fire, etc. This kind of talk seems designed mainly to attract attention. It’s rather irresponsible, and I’ll let George Lincoln Rockwell explain why:

    “I feel that terrorism is a valid weapon in guerrilla warfare, or any kind of warfare; and under the circumstances in which our country finds itself, I would favor terrorism if it could be complete — if it would work. A hundred years ago, I’d have been a Klansman with a rope and a gun and the whole business. I’d have really gone all out during the Reconstruction to save the white South.And make no mistake about the terrorism: It did the job. But today, it plays directly into the hands of Martin Luther Coon; it manufactures martyrs for the Northern press, for the liberals, and it doesn’t scare the niggers out of hell-raising anymore.” [Playboy interview, 1966]

    Covington was pretty clearly winking at the Jared Loughner shooting spree immediately after it happened, on the false assumption that it was somehow White-Nationalistically motivated. Here he seems to be encouraging that kind of counterproductive behavior, that kind of “partial terrorism” as Rockwell called it, again. If that is not Covington’s intention then he is just blowing hot air for the sake of appearing radical (and probably to sell his fantasy novels).

15. Dan,

    (1) In the original post, I clearly stated that I thought White Zionists should move to Empty Corridor and imitate the Amish and Mormons.

    (2) In the comments, I specifically mentioned Montana and the PLE in the Flathead Valley as a sensible place to go. I’m sure you remember the articles that I wrote about Wyoming and Idaho in which I discussed their relative advantages over other states.

    Thus, I don’t see how anyone can say that I am “running down the Northwest,” when I am really only criticizing the idea of moving to the SWPL dominated I-5 corridor and surrounding yourself with people like Joe Snuffy.

    (3) It was HAC who wanted a debate on the substantial merits of his plan. I thought he wanted a debate. Guess not?

    (4) Personally, I don’t believe for a second that White people who abandon their homes and kinfolk (or in HAC’s case, his home, his people, and his own family) will ever fight for an abstract ideology with a bunch of unrelated strangers, but maybe that is just the Southerner in me.

    I should qualify the above: it is my understanding that Richard Butler, whom I never met, was the leader of a Christian Identity organization that appealed mostly to families, whereas the Northwest Front is not Christian Identity and appeals mostly to alienated intellectual types. I also want to say that the Weavers and Bob Mathews were Christian Identity.

    Looking at the success of the Mormons or the Amish, I think Christian Identity is something that White Zionists ought to seriously consider, not because it is necessarily true, but because it might it provide extra layers of ethnic, cultural, and religious shielding and homogeneity to settlers who want to nurture and sustain a separate racial identity in the Northwest.

16. So, when we unpack all of these pro Covington supporter comments, we are given that he is “doing something” because some of you have moved to some Northwest region of America, an endeavor that you would not have undertaken had Harold Covington not existed? You needed to be told by him to do this and would not have done so otherwise?

    That is very much the general “drift” I have from reading pro Covington posts on the Internet these many years.

    ****************************

    I also notice a few are reminding people of some of HAC’s extreme blackguard work over on Stormfront. He is in the habit of inventing stories about people murdering fictitious people and drugging and sodomizing other fictitious people.

    Several, hopefully, very young boys are asking the relevance of this expose. Some of these, hopefully, young boys are probably on here. I say I hope they are very young boys because anyone over 25 or 30 years of age and doesn’t know or understand why you do not touch anyone, ANYONE, with a 3,000 mile long pole who will invent, complete with model of car, date and county of fictitious murders and homosexual rape, such libels is a goddamn fool.

    I will repeat that, you are a goddamn fool.

    And this hasn’t got anything to do with politics, ideology, whatever, you do not have anything to do with such a man or woman. I don’t care what books, ideas or advice he may otherwise have. You do not have anything to do with such a person. Period. And I don’t care how many years or decades ago it was.

    Anyone who disregards that solemn advice or casually dismisses out of hand information about someone who will invent a detailed story about you committing a murder is going to go down some rough roads in his or her life before they get wise and learn to avoid and not have anything to do with such people as Covington. Such a man can destroy your life, land you in prison, destroy your reputation, destroy your family, maybe even get you killed.

17. “Covington is clearly winking at violence all the time in his podcasts. ”

    What is clear about Covington is what he really is. He is not in the least interested in white people. He is the worst type of opportunist. Many years ago he became aware of a “market” available for possibly making money off of a relatively small but somewhat significant number of people who are interested in white patriotism. He decided he would attempt to elbow out all other “leaders” or would be leaders by the use of his extreme character defect and willingness to stoop to the lowest level of vile gossip. He figured if he could commandeer a big portion of this market he might could make a good living off a few hundred or few thousand people. And he could also indulge another of his character defects to boot. Namely, he could occasionally goad some poor mental case and wretch into committing a violent terrorist act and derive sadistic pleasure from seeing that happen. The same mental defect that enables him to invent detailed stories accusing people of murder and homosexual rape causes him to wish for and enjoy seeing a terrorist act committed and lives destroyed.

    THAT is what is clear about Harold Covington.

18. “..the innovation and key to success for the NSDAP was to be a nationalist party that offered enough in the way of social welfare that the workers, who generally were patriotic, would not be forced to support the Communists and Social-Democrats.”

    I give Harding three thumbs up. 🙂

19. Again,

    I take a lot of the responsibility for bringing the Covington, Northwest Migration topic to O.D. – it’s controversial and Mr. Covington is very controversial, has lots of personal enemies.

    I stated from the beginning that I consider Mr. Covington a great author and a very good radio podcast host and I support the NorthWest Migration. In all other areas regarding Mr. Covington I stated:

    “Caveat Emptor”

    The solution is to not get personally involved with Mr. Covington or give a lot/any care to feuds Mr. Covington had/has with anyone else or HAC personal attacks against you. If you are doing effective White activism and not doing the NorthWest migration, don’t worry, don’t lose it – just do what you are good at in your area – that’s if you are being in any way effective.

    It’s also a good idea to keep your real name, personal information (job, where you live, who you date, friends etc) private – White Nationalists are the “gay people” in or out of the closet in these rough days.

    So if Mr. Covington slams your pen name in some future NorthWest novel – don’t worry too much, it’s not really you.

    For those of us who do support some or a lot of Mr. Covington’s work, let’s try to help him and the NorthWest migration by getting others to do other important work like fundraising, PR, literature distribution, assistance with settlement. Mr. Covington can’t do it all by himself, he shouldn’t be seen or slammed as a one man operation/savior.

    Folks seriously considering this NorthWest Migration should read up on the Mormon/LDS migration from Illinois/Missouri to Utah in the 19th century. The migration was done and a new community, country was successfully started in the West. This LDS migration wasn’t a one man operation and note that the great Mormon/LDS prophet/leader Joseph Smith was murdered in Illinois and others, new leaders stepped in to organize the Western migration. It might very well be the same with our NorthWest Migration as Mr. Covington might not be alive to see the success/victory.

    But, let’s all work for success/victory.

    14 Words

20. Jack Ryan, if you really took responsibility then we wouldn’t have to read any more of your battered-wife excuse-making.

21. “If you are doing effective White activism and not doing the NorthWest migration, don’t worry, don’t lose it – just do what you are good at in your area –”

    The best thing I’ve seen is the tactics over at http://www.whitakeronline.org.

    We go on the offensive, expose immigration and promotion of miscegenation for what it is, white genocide.

    Here is a plea from a brain washed young white to one of our guys to lay off him.

    “I must be going. See ya later.
    @iswhitewrong, you still call me a white anti-white yet I am sympathetic to white culture. I do care about white people as well as other groups. I like being a white person. I think white people are amazing people just like Hispanics, African-Americans, Asians and so on. Please stop calling me a traitor when I say nice things about our race and other races.”

    Whitakers tactics work. Below is the best you tube rendition of Whitakers “Mantra”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfB_F936bU8

    The “practical politics” as also taught at whiterabbitradio.net is the best kind of politics.

    The more you sweat in politics the less you bleed in war.

22. What’s this about the detailed fantasies of alleged murders?

23. Brutus says: “The same mental defect that enables him to invent detailed stories accusing people of murder and homosexual rape …”

    Hunter Wallace says: “What’s this about the detailed fantasies of alleged murders?”

    That would be this here, which I tracked down last year. http://noncounterproductive.blogspot.com/2011/03/two-brazen-covington-lies-demolished.html

    There are a some other murder accusations that Covington has made but those are the ones wherein he gave enough detail that I could debunk them definitively.

24. Hunter: I’ll ask the same question I asked last time you went off slagging the Northwest. Have you ever been here? Your writing about the Northwest reminds me of the hackneyed way Hollywood writes about the South.

    I went into a deli on Saturday and got a sandwich. Like a lot of places here they don’t sell any “macro-brew” at all. No Bud, no Coors, no Miller. But they had 20 odd brands of NW microbrews. I’m really not a fan of super-hoppy beers, so I was sort of pawing through the collection and came up with this:

    Hopworks Secession Cascadian Dark Ale.

    Note the tricolor flag. The flag and map are of the “Cascadia” secession movement, which is the more leftist / whole-earth movement that predates HACs novels. Funny that the flags are so similar.

    There must be something in the water here (which flows off the Mt. Hood glaciers) that makes the beer so good, and the idea of secession so common.

25. uh,

    “BUGS is what?”

    http://www.whitakeronline.org/blog/

26. I’m gonna get band. This back bite biting stuff over who’s a guru is getting insufferable.
    For starters young man, trying to tell me Glenn Miller ever had 5,000 men under arms is an insult to my credulity. It that had been true David Duke would have been in the U.S. senate 20 years ago. That may well still happen.
    Secondly Covington writes some good novels. Whether his vision of a white Intifada in the Northwest or anywhere else is likely is irrelevant. The novels are good for morale.
    None of us knows what is going to happen in this country, but I know some things that would surprise a lot of you. And it’s more to our liking. You have no ideal the people that secretly believe in our race and are quietly working for it.
    Old age and the experience it brings count for something. Not to mention I’ve some smarts. I know a good thing when I see it winning. Right now the thing to do is to accelerate the political awakening of our people. For that every last one of you young studs should be going over to whitakeronline.org and whiterabbitradio.net and learning what works. It’s our version of “Cultural Caucasianess” if you will. Bob Whitaker is the only major guy in the movement I know of who both has more smarts and is older than I.
    As to setting up conscious pro-white communities, either regionally as is Covingtons belief or at the neighborhood level like Haman wants over on SF is your personal preferrence, but if you are not tied down with a family then you need to get up off your rear and move to a forming PLE. Maybe it should be in Seattle.
    If you are constrained by family responsibility then exercise some leadership. Inform the wife that this country is coming apart at some point in some fashion and that your brood needs to get up and move as soon as is feasible.
    Whites are not going to be a minority in this country. That would take 30 years of “current trends” to continue. As Churchill pointed out, the biggest common mistake people make is to look at a long term trend in human affairs and assume it will continue indefinitely. How do you think stock market bubbles form for Thor’s sake! We are in a diversity bubble that’s about to burst.
    We are going to have a white run home land in this country with a lot less than 20 % minorities within 50 years. We need to push for 100%. It may only include 3/4 of our current territory but it’s coming one way or another.
    How bad things will get, any where from Tom Chittums “Civil War II”, to Covington’s “The Brigade” or just Haman’s PLE prospectus is up to how much political work we are willing to do now.
    The more you sweat in politics the less your kids will bleed in war. Just do it.
    My advice to Covington since he’s apparently the best motivator here, is to dial way back on the violence stuff. Leave that strictly to the novels. Just remind people of what Jefferson said on the occasion of a drunken band of IRA types taking up arms, “I hold it that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
    The white population in this country is going to get real radical on it’s own at some point. Trying to recruit people into any white nationalist movement by hinting they are going to get a chance to run around in the woods killing n—-s, Mexicans, Jews and Feds is only going to attract juveniles.
    I personally know a man who went to a Northwest Front dinner, noticed a guy there with a partially concealed weapon, and told me later he’d never go back. That guy with the weapon was either your proto typical juvenile white nationalist or an agent provocateur. I’ve seen that exact same trick pulled at a meeting before.
    This sort of thing does scare off a lot of people who will get radical later on their own anyway. We need to just get as many as possible consciously pro-white people rallied together on the ground now. Their situation will radicalize them later.
    Yes I know Hitler said you need to keep a revolutionary movement strong by having edgy propaganda specifically to scare off nervous Nellie’s, but Hitler also inveighed against forming militias. He said keep it political.
    Yes America is not Germany and this is not 1925, but telling people what the Jewish nation has done to us and is planning for us is edgy enough “propaganda”. They are pushing for our genocide. Don’t believe me? Then read about it at Whitaker on line or hear about it at white rabbit radio. Then get up from the key board and say something in public.

27. Jackson,

    (1) I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread that my own personal view is that people should move to states like Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming which were, last time I checked, located in the Northwest.

    HAC even includes Idaho within the boundaries of his “Northwest Republic.” Back in February, I gave a two hour interview to a Wyoming reporter about my White Zion article.

    (2) There are objective reasons why these states make more sense than Washington and Oregon: they are more White, more conservative, sparsely populated, and the energy based economy is booming there.

    (3) Moving to the I-5 corridor makes about as much sense as moving to South Florida or New Jersey because it has a coastline.

    (4) I could take the same criticisms of Harold’s plan and apply them to other parts of the United States, including parts of the South, but no one claims “there is no alternative” but to move to these areas.

    (5) I could say that the South has been sanctified by the blood of hundreds of thousands of martyrs who died at the hands of the Union Army, but that really isn’t a persuasive argument.

    (6) I could say that we could use bombs to drive blacks out of Southern cities, but I know from the experience of incidents like the 16th Street Church Bombing in Birmingham or Emmett Till in Mississippi that resorting to violence, even in the Deep South, is objectively a retarded idea that would only empower our enemies.

    (7) I could point out that West Virginia and Kentucky are whiter than Oregon and Washington, but that isn’t a persuasive argument either.

    (8) I could say you need to move here before we come up with a plan to convert the locals, but argument would be subject to the same criticism.

    Harold’s plan, which is creating a White Nationalist ghetto and launching an IRA-style terrorist campaign, wouldn’t work anywhere.

28. I’ve been to North Dakota and Manitoba.

29. Phil White says: “My advice to Covington since he’s apparently the best motivator here, is to dial way back on the violence stuff.”

    You are expecting Covington to stop being Covington. This is the man who went out of his way to associate his uniformed nazi group with the Reagan assassination attempt. The Feds finally concluded that Covington was lying about John Hinckley’s having been in the NSPA just to get publicity. (No surprise there, in retrospect.)

    You can give Covington credit for being persuasive, but the value of this becomes extremely dubious when you realize how dishonest and irresponsible he is. Can good fruit grow on such a tree?

30. I’m sorry that Hunter’s very unpleasant experience with American dysfunctional, WN “Movement” people has put him in a defeatist, pessimist mindset.

    Resistance to anti White, government (ZOG if you like) tyranny is supposed to be “hopeless”.

    We need to look in other places to find hope and inspiration, and learn from other groups’ success.

    One such successful group has been the pro life movement and in many areas, instances these pro life groups did use, threaten violence.

    North Dakota, large parts of Missouri and other places do not have practicing abortion doctors. The main reasons for this is:

    1) local political opposition
    2) Existing, local abortion doctors being killed or threatened

    Now it is true that the populist/constitutionalist White Nationalist use or threats of violence (such as Oklahoma City, Jew talk show host Berg assassination) did not receive White public support and instead caused the public to reject WN, but this isn’t to say other violent revolutionary acts wouldn’t receive support.

    Targets might include;

    Hard core porn studios
    Commencement ceremonies for Ivy League law schools
    NW militant Islamic mosques on Sept 11th
    UN buildings
    Particularly loathsome $ billionaire Wall Street scammer’s property

    Again, I am not advocating anyone here doing anything violent or illegal and at some future date if some other patriots are considering doing now what American patriots did to the British in the late 18th century, these folks should consider targeting targets, mostly property that the public would support getting taken out.

    Targeting illegal alien drug gangs or pimps like the one depicted in Taxi Driver (movie) are always popular with the public. So is using violence, threats of violence to shut down dog fighting rings, child pornography rings etc. There are White folk heroes out there.

    And the Mafia has always been around, the Mafia uses violence, threats of violence to secure power – there is no reason that more racially conscious quasi criminal groups/mafias might have some similar success. Some argue that White biker gangs like the Hells Angels have had such success.

    Check out the Youtube video of the Rolling Stones concert in Northern California where the Hell’s Angles killed some Black guy threatening to disrupt the concert with a gun. These same types of White bikers would be great at doing security for White speakers at American college campuses.

    Again this is just theoretical observations and I am not advocating anyone here do anything illegal, violent and be very careful around anyone who is trying to get you to do such things.

    But, White Americans did twice – do violent revolutions against existing government/authorities in the US during the Revolutionary War and the US Civil War.

    Who’s to say it couldn’t happen again?

31. Summary of Jack Ryan’s last post: “Here are some good ideas for illegal activity, but don’t do any of it.”

    So what was that then? Just fantasizing about violence?

32. “I’m sorry that Hunter’s very unpleasant experience with American dysfunctional, WN “Movement” people has put him in a defeatist, pessimist mindset.”

    Bump

33. Hadding says:
    April 19, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    Summary of Jack Ryan’s last post: “Here are some good ideas for illegal activity, but don’t do any of it.”

    So what was that then? Just fantasizing about violence?

    JR replies:

    No.

    The point is when discussing past and possible future revolutionary activities like dressing up as native American indians and dumping British Tea in to the Boston Harbor or firing on Fort Sumpter or thinking about what future American revolutionaries my do or target, the point is to always state that you do not advocate such activities when others are reading, listening.

    If anyone tries to give you a hard time about what you once said or thought.

    Use these words:

    “I have nothing to say”.

34. Jack,

    In the War Between the States, it was Southern state governments that seceded from the Union through state conventions. In doing so, they exercised the almost universal belief among White Southerners that the people of the states were sovereign and that a state convention was the final authority on any matter of law.

    Secession was seen as LEGITIMATE and LEGAL ACT. Lincoln’s attack on the Confederacy was seen as ILLEGITIMATE and ILLEGAL. Resistance to Northern aggression was LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, and SELF DEFENSE.

    What’s more, it was the existing elite in the South that fomented secession and created the Confederacy, and the movement was broadly supported in the media at the time. The election of a “Black Republican” was seen as an intolerable affront to South that warranted immediate secession.

    This is nothing like what Harold Covington proposes:

    (1) He advocates the illegitimate use of violence.

    (2) He advocates rebellion in the name of millions of White people in the Pacific Northwest who do not support him.

    (3) He isn’t justifying his rebellion on the basis of any popular consensus.

    (4) He is a nobody in the Pacific Northwest.

    (5) He wants to rebel in the name of a nation that does not even exist.

    For any one of those reasons, any such rebellion in the Pacific Northwest would be snuffed out as fast as Glenn Miller’s intifada in 1987, and probably as quickly forgotten.

35. In the American Revolution, George Washington was the richest man in America. Benjamin Franklin was one of its most admired citizens. The Founding Fathers were drawn from the upper crust of the colonial elite.

    The Revolution was also a quarrel over the British Constitution.

36. Some of Ryan’s theorizing is good, although he’s walking a thin line. Unlike some here have said, you can’t be arrested for saying America needs to have a violent revolution, but it is illegal to make actual preparations for a violent act, and apparently from what happened to Hal Turner, illegal to suggest a specific violent act such as killing a particular federal judge.
    I do take acceptation to the idea of an alliance with criminal biker gangs. Politically counter productive. Doesn’t the left do enough to link us to criminal misfits?
    My position is that violence would have been morally justified decades ago, if it had been proportionate to the problem and likely to have achieved some success.
    We have political rights, which few of us bother to exercise much, such as public vocal opposition to the white genocide. A few weeks ago I had magnetic signs put on my car advertising the 14 words and whiterabbitradio.net. I can get away with it. I’m divorced and retired.
    Violent revolution would only be workable if ZOG took unconstitutional action to suppress us. And even then it would further be necessary that large segments of the white population saw us as being unconstitutionally suppressed.
    If we are suppressed and the vast, I mean 90% or better, majority of whites agree with that suppression, then we should take Sun Tzu’s advice and devolve into a political underground.
    But ZOG is not likely to go unconstitutional on us unless we ARE making significant headway with a political/cultural campaign. If that happens, then yes it would be possible to revolt.
    That seems to be Covingtons official position, but I think in reality he strays too far from Hitler’s political advice by his titillating unstable people with videos of terrorist violence. In Der Fuhrer’s phrase we should “march in the sunlight.”
    On balance though, I think Covingtons novels have done more good than he has done harm in recent years.
    Let us do the boring, frustrating political ground work. Remember, our goal is to become so effective ZOG has to throw us in jail. That will be the beginning of the end.

37. Hunter has definitely, lost the “spirit of rebellion” and this is understandable, given his age and his desire to find employment, stable friends and associates who actually have jobs, GFs, wives, children etc. and also it is completely understandable to want to get away from so many negative, crazy, dysfunctional American WN “Movement” kranks , kooks, nut cases etc.

    But, all should understand that the spirit of rebellion lives within all free White men and also many women. This spirit of rebellion can come out in small ways, like not obeying a 55 MPH speed limit imposed from Washington D.C. and Cambridge MA on some wide open high way in Montana on a perfectly clear day when the next car is 5 miles away.

    There should be rebellions of college youths, working class Whites to the ridiculous 21 year old beer drinking laws. There were once riots, rebellions in Chicago over efforts to tax, end beer sales, and what about Prohibition? Americans certainly rebelled against that tyranny, Americans weren’t all

    OBEYING THE LAW during Prohibition.

    Other rebellions were in alliance with Indians like the Whiskey Rebellion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_rebellion

    The Irish New York City Draft riots:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots

    (that rebellion had strong racial components as the Irish were attacking, KILLING newly arrived Blacks from the South who were blamed for lower Irish wages and being the cause of the Civil War – drafting of Irish for the Union armies.

38. Joe Snuffy’s little rebellion in Spokane which consisted of ineptly planting a pipe bomb in a MLK parade accomplished nothing but getting himself a one way ticket to prison.

    Suppose the bomb really had gone off:

    (1) It would have been a political boon to Barack Obama.

    (2) It would have turned White people in the Northwest against White Nationalism.

    (3) It would have made life more difficult for White Nationalists everywhere.

    (4) It would have been used as a pretext for assaulting what remains of our constitutional rights.

    We all know it wouldn’t have worked. Aside from VNN Forum, absolutely no one would have rallied to his side if the bomb had actually detonated. This includes Harold Covington.

    It wouldn’t have worked because there is an overwhelming cultural consensus among White Americans that organized communities, not individuals, possess a monopoly on the use of force which they have delegated to authority figures.

    Thus, a law enforcement officer who shoots a criminal or a soldier who kills a terrorist overseas is perceived to be using violence in a legitimate way, whereas a nutcase like Jared Loughner or a White Nationalist like Joe Snuffy who resorts to violence are seen as nothing more than common criminals.

    If you want to start a real rebellion, you need to possess legitimacy in the minds of your audience, which in America means you need a state like Texas to break with the federal government over some polarizing issue.

39. Hunter,
    I don’t think anyone here or Mr. Covington is advising any White person to do stupid, counter productive acts of violence against NWs, Black churches, kill little puppies, sick large dogs on Black civil rights protesters, incite 90 year old racist, Jew hating kranks to invade the US Holocaust museum and kill Black security guards or plant pipe bombs at MLK day marches.

    And to be frank, the only ones pushing stupid, counter productive acts violence are most likely working for the government, or the SPLC – remember the Tennessee Skin head plot to assassinate Obama?

    No instead many intelligent folks are preparing for rebellions and movements to break away in part or most of the way from the Washington/Hollywood Empire.

    There can be serious efforts to rebel, break away and this can include acts of force, violence against property – this might include (don’t do it, not advocating you do it) destruction of despised cultural forces – like movies that promote machete murders of Whites. The Muslims use force/violence to not allow pro Jewish movies in their countries or movies that insult Islam. Black African American groups used force to stop the showing of Birth of a Nation. We’re not talking pipe bombs here, more like stink bombs. Even some Whites now – like Andrew’s National Anarchists are doing effective protests, others can up the ante a bit and use stink bombs – circulate the names and addresses of film producers who produce genocidal, anti White movies like Machete. The English Defense League is effectively doing this now.

    How about the very real White rebellion in Australia at

    2005 Cronulla riots
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

    The key again, is to find that healthy spark of rebellion and channel this rebellion in to positive, not counter productive actions.

    Hunter, I think all the toxic negativity on the O.D. comments section has just temporarily made you gun shy about any rebellious urges.

    And it is perfectly OK to want to get away, get a good job, start a family and if that means sucking up a bit a lot to some Conservative system hacks – well, we all have to do things to get by.

    But, everyone, please try to keep a small part of your mind, body and soul open to

    rebellion
    resistance

    Here’s a small practical idea to do some effective resistance.

    Get the TV-B-Gone remote device and go in to your relative’s homes and secretly turn off their TVs during some terrible ZOG propaganda. It works in public places like bars, airports.

    Make no mistake, you are attacking the Big Brother, anti White system media – shutting down their propaganda and really, really pissing off your TV addicted relatives.

    Have some fun out their folks.!

40. “we need to build a “community,” which doesn’t refer to any specific community, only to an abstract ideal of one; we need a “homeland,” which is also a concept, not a place; we need a “myth,” which doesn’t refer to anything substantial.”

    You do need a community. More specifically, you need an old boys club or ethnic network. This is the only way you can deal with Liberals. This is the economic advantage of having an exclusive group. Liberal (as opposed to Jews) by definition can not be exclusive (though, in practice, they are). That’s their weakness. The only strength you have is the economic advantage that should come with having an exclusive group. Of course, since you are a marginalize group filled to yours ears with deadbeats, this isn’t working to your advantage. Regardless, this is where you have to start. Or at leasts some of you. Jesus, can’t you scrape up 500 to make an occidental dissent scholarship fund? If not, you’re in need of people who have money — so you have to figure out how to get them. Practically speaking — I mean go door to door if you have too.

41. Practical idea — try to get 5 people to friend or read the NPI website in the next month — or, for that matter, OD. This is how it has to be done.

42. “No one but intellectuals appreciate these elaborate ideological sand castles. White people are not going to unite on the basis of a proposition nation.”

    First, you don’t have intellectuals. The Left has intellectuals. You have people that waste exorbitant amounts of time daydreaming, posting ridiculous comments, and accomplishing nothing. Those people, who aren’t intellectually predisposed, need to be put to better use.

43. Obviously, Hunter —

    It’s your job or the job of the leaderish people to think up practical activities for everyone else to do. Since there is a sizable number of people here that are not content with your aracial conservative approach, you need to think of practical proracial activities which don’t conflict with your conservative political goals.

44. “I’m sorry that Hunter’s very unpleasant experience with American dysfunctional, WN “Movement” people has put him in a defeatist, pessimist mindset.”

    Are some of those “Movement” people the ones like you, Jack Ryan? The ones that support Harold Covington no matter how much or how outrageously he lies?

    I am not in that movement either. My movement is about the truth. Since the truth is the most powerful weapon that we have, I don’t interest myself in all those suggestions for illegal activity that you contemplate.

45. Time to tighten up the comments section again.

    When you see folks getting obsessed that they and only they

    KNOW THE TRUTH

    Yeah, we’ve all been there, done that.

    Lighten up folks, the world isn’t so bad, lot’s of good things happening out in the real world.

    Recent census data shows that Chicago lost over 200,000 Black African Americans from 200o to 2010 – most the result of solid policies tearing down high rise public housing projects. Where did these people go… maybe Alabama, not so good for our good folks like Hunter down in Dixie, but the world is looking much brighter, much whiter in Chicago these days.

46. Now, if that isn’t the most mean-spirited post I’ve seen in ages. Your points against the practicality of the Butler Plan seem sound, but you went far beyond constructive criticism.

47. Jack Ryan says: “When you see folks getting obsessed that they and only they KNOW THE TRUTH …”

    That’s quite a strawman, Jack Ryan.

    I know what’s NOT the truth so far as Covington is concerned. I went to a lot of trouble to establish it. This is how the careful man approaches the truth, by eliminating everything else.

    The careful man will also want to flag chronic sources of misinformation (like Covington) so that he can stop having his time wasted with what they say.

48. My original point about truth was that it is our best weapon and it is on our side. It’s the weapon that we ought to be using. It’s the weapon that the NSDAP used to come to power in Germany. I am not talking about metaphysical truth; I am talking about demonstrable facts.

    We are seeing a dichotomy in White Nationalism right now, between those that value truth on the one hand, and the drunkards, dunces, and lunatics that support Harold Covington on the other. That latter faction has little appreciation for truth. You can read this in the statements that some of them make.

    Covington’s drunkards, dunces, and lunatics naturally gravitate toward violence, because they cannot conceive any other way. Since they do not respect the truth themselves, they cannot conceive how publicizing truth could make a difference.

49. Ben,

    It’s amazing how similar your writing is to that of your brother.

50. I’m not sure what HAC and Greg Johnson have in mind when they speak of the need to “build a community.”

    My community is Barbour County, AL. When I hear the word “community,” I think of cities in East Alabama like Auburn and Eufaula where my friends and family live.

    I think of specific places, all the people I know, all the experiences I have had there. I think of the church in my front yard that is over a hundred years old.

    Their “community” is some kind of comic book fantasy that exists only in their own minds.