About Hunter Wallace 12380 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

50 Comments

  1. “John says:
    May 16, 2012 at 5:35 pm
    Canals would be backs. Barges and water networks.”

    That would be lovely!

  2. “Jews and “people will find a way” are not on speaking terms.”

    Haha, right? That and “people thinking for themselves”.

  5. Probably just another “anti-racism” (i.e., white bashing) show. The black militia represents antebellum or pre-1960s civic authorities in the South, the flight to Chicago the underground railroad or later movement North for jobs, the mulatto turncoat good liberals who fight against their own people (a la Avatar), etc.

  6. “Germans didn’t settle the deep south. When the antibiotics dry up, whites might again be facing the fact that they tend to die a lot toiling outdoors in the hot, humid climes of the deep south.”

    We are in better shape than we were, for example several diseases like the hookworm and malaria were eradicated, and we understand more about disease than we did then. There would be the population die-off of course, that is unavoidable under such a scenario, but civilization would by no means end.

  7. The best result of an accelerated decline would whites would keep for themselves due to shortages, and be less inclined to “help the disadvantaged” who are overwhelmingly not white.

    The black infant mortality rate is already skyrocketing, just imagine it with less white do-gooderism. The population of blacks a given plot of land can support, without outside aid, is far less than the amount of whites a given amount of land can support.

  8. Folks, electricity is not at all hard to generate. It is not all that difficult to make a generator. I generator is simply an electric motor run in reverse. There are literally billions of motors in the world. They are extremely tough(it is almost always a simple capacitor that fails, not the windings, rotor or stator, that makes people believe the motor is shot and they need a new one. 98 times out of 100 a ten buck capacitor will fix that 400 buck motor.). There will be plenty of them around. No matter what. The same can be said of internal combustion motors, which can be used to power your initial effort to restore electrical generation. I can write a 4000 word post here just covering the basic concepts. The idea of not having electric is absurd. I don’t care what catastrophe you envision unless it is the death of every last man on earth who posses any technical knowledge at all.

    The writer and engineer G. Harry Stine, back in 1981 suggested readers of a certain magazine play a sort of game: Either an all out nuclear war or some other catastrophic even would destroy civilization. There are always survivors. (This is true) You are either going to a new planet to start over or going into some kind of bomb shelter and will later emerge out into what is left of this world. You are limited in what you can take with you. You can have SIX books.

    What would be your choice? What six books would you take?

    I’ll list my six later and why. I can rebuild civilization with my six books.

  10. “Folks, electricity is not at all hard to generate. It is not all that difficult to make a generator.”

    We understand, we’re taking the premise of the show, which is pure handwaving, and running with it. The properties of the physical world failing in the way portrayed would have serious and damning consequences well beyond not being able to use lightbulbs.

  11. Check out a paperback fiction novel called “Ariel” by Steven R. Boyett. It was first published in 1983 and re-printed a couple years ago. I read it back in 1994. It’s pretty good. Anyway, it looks like this show ripped off the premise entirely.

  12. Dude,

    The premise of the show is that there are no ways to generate electricity. I don’t quite know how that could happen, but just play that hypothetical, eh? How hard can that be to think about?

    Deisel might still be possible. That uses pressure to generate explosions. But you still need small amounts of electicity for conventional engines that use spark plugs.

  14. One advanced mathematics text books. one book about chemistry. One book on metal working. The Prince by Maciavelli and Leviathan by Hobbes. Some sort of history of western art text book with color illustrations. A portable kit for civilization.

  15. Leviathan could be replaced by a Shakespeare play.

    Does this include obvious things like the bible? Desert island discs does not allow that one. It’s too popular.

    I might take a sheet music book containing everything by Mozart, Beethoven etc etc…

  16. Just came in at the end of the day and skimmed through the posts and comments, noting Fr John’s wise counsel (above): “I don’t watch the jew tube, and neither should you.” We were very fortunate to be brought up mostly without one in our home. I went through a stage where for a number of years I refused to look at all, and even now I don’t turn on TV, though I do watch a little “to be sociable.” While some recommend it to “study popular culture,” there are MUCH more important things to study, and I hold young children should be prevented from watching at all.

  18. I would take

    The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, current edition

    Mark’s Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, 11th edition

    A Modern Inorganic Chemistry Textbook. (I have heard the choice for this purpose should be an old but still relevant and actually better in many ways textbook, Mellor’s Modern Inorganic Chemistry.)

    Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy, current edition

    The Way Things Work, an Illustrated Encyclopedia of Technology (Old, but still highly relevant and useful , especially for the purpose here. It is still used and highly praised)

    Biology, Campbell, Reece, Mitchell, 5th edition

    The first two choices contains tons of information. The life’s work of thousands of people. The accumulated empirical data of generations of engineers.

    The description of Mark’s Manual reads: “Solve any mechanical engineering problem quickly and easily with the world’s leading engineering handbook

    Nearly 1800 pages of mechanical engineering facts, figures, standards, and practices, 2000 illustrations, and 900 tables clarifying important mathematical and engineering principle, and the collective wisdom of 160 experts help you answer any analytical, design, and application question you will ever have.

    # Mathematical Tables and Measuring Units
    # Mathematics
    # Mechanics of Solids and Fluids
    # Heat
    # Strength of Materials
    # Materials of Engineering
    # Fuels and Furnaces
    # Machine Elements
    # Power Generation
    # Materials Handling
    # Transportation
    # Building Construction and Equipment
    # Manufacturing Processes: Fans, Pumps, and Compressors
    # Electrical and Electronics Engineering
    # Instruments and Control
    # Industrial Engineering
    # The Regulatory Environment
    # Refrigeration, Cryogenics, and Optics
    # Emerging Technologies and Miscellany”

    The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy is the manual that doctors use often to diagnose and treat. Emergency Room and Trauma surgeons use it. Most people do not know about this book. This huge book will go a long way if you do not want to visit doctors.

    The other books speak for themselves.

    I can only have six books, so there will be no Bible, no literature, no philosophy, no novels, no art, no “how to get along” books, etc. The reason is simple: There is no book or books that has ever been written on those general subjects that works to the level of the six books I chose. If any did, we would not be on this site and others like it and discussing the subjects we do. That is a fact.

    My six books relate to economic provision and knowledge of the world and how to survive and make life less difficult. We do not have the same sort of books for moral or political organization because of the wide variety of both exiting here on this planet. You cannot get over two people, if that, to agree on one or the other.

    My six books will put food in your mouth and a roof over your head and clothes on your body, provide for sanitation, energy AND defense against others who will not make wise choices and will try to take what you have. In a world of scarcity(which is what our planet is except in a very few isolated regions), the easiest way to get something is to take it away from somebody who has it. The other type of books mentioned will not do any of this. I read a quote once that is pretty accurate: “One can determine the state of affairs in a country or culture by how well the plumbing works.” This is not a question of arguing realities or opinions, a toilet either works or it doesn’t. The water is either safe to drink or it will kill you with typhoid, typhus or a thousand others organisms or poisons. No amount of philosophy or art will kill the germs in the water supply or make your toilet work. A few tools and a shot of chlorine or other chemicals used according to the directions found in my six books will. They tell you about stresses in beams and load capacities; they tell you how to make chemistry work; They tell you how to provide and make materials. The data in these books is solid and leads to repeatable results. They tell you how to keep from having to reinvent the wheel. Using the six books I listed, a group of intelligent people can make a go of it after a disaster and start civilization over.

  19. I will take:
    1)The Collected Works of Shakespeare
    2) Something about plants, as in Which Plant Does What.
    3) Something about How to Make Make-up and Shampoo and Soap Out of Stuff You Find Like Plants, and Other Assorted Crap That’s Still Left After the Apocolypse – as I don’t want to LIVE in a world without eyeliner. And lipstick. And decent shampoo.
    4) How to Grow Coffee Beans Anywhere. Ditto for life being unedurable without coffee. Believe me. You want want me alive, without coffee, either.
    5)” The Celts”, by Gerhard Herm
    6) The Collected Works of Everything Hitler and the National Socialists Ever Wrote (Screw You Juden! Hitler LIVES after YOU are gone! HAHAHA!!!!)
    7) and 8) (Cause I’m a chick – and Ill sneak extras in anyways. Try and stop me.) “The Gallery of Regrettable Foods” and “Interior Desecrations” by James Lileks. SWPL Deluxe.

    You’se guys will bring all the technical and weaponry books, and Mosin will bring the Bible. So I’m gold.

  21. John – “The Prince” by the Fabulous Mr M is essential. If you don’t bring in Jonathan Swift – I will. The Collected Works. Book # 9 for me.

    And #10 will be the Collected Works of Washington Irving. #11 – EA Poe. #12 – Oscar Wilde. (Read him, if you haven’t. Don’t let the Moderne Homos ruin his genius for you. Fr John – I once got a VERY devout and marvelous Christian father to read his children’s stories. He was reading his kids all this God-AWFUL “modern” Christian dreck, to his little brood. I told him that Wilde’s kiddie stories were far more “Christian” , in spirit, than the nonsense he was using. He read the stories – and thanked me. At least his wonderful kids were exposed to superb writing).

  24. The ones I listed? Get your pocket book out. A few of them are high dollar. All of them if you don’t get them at the right place.

  25. Brutus – I’ll try and find ’em. I’m good at bargain hunting. I actually know a family of book dealers.

  26. Excellent choices and descriptions, Brutus, and I noted and want to add some of them to my library. But let’s take God’s Word along as well, since mortal life is short.

  28. “We do not have the same sort of books for moral or political organization because of the wide variety of both exiting here on this planet. You cannot get over two people, if that, to agree on one or the other.” Yet we do have one such book, or set of books, with which, as Christians, we agree.

    “Using the six books I listed, a group of intelligent people can make a go of it after a disaster and start civilization over.” Would that be a different civilisation, one not founded on the Scriptures left behind?

  29. Overlapped on a few there. Mathematics, chemistry, metal working,

    I’d preserve some sort of literature or art though. Society needs a myth or two to survive.

    Fatal flaw is that the women will have nothing to read. Heh.

  30. The premise is that survivors of some war or catastrophe will emerge and be faced with surviving in a world that has been devastated, most likely there will be plenty of hostile people to contend with, of all races. Circumstances only allow for six books in all.

    I gave a list of the six books that I would choose to have above all others and the reasons why. Obviously we would all wish for more, but in this scenario only six is possible. I simply can think of no wise reason why I would replace one of the books I listed with a Bible or book of Shakespeare’s plays instead. Again, yes, I very much would rather take many more books. But six is all we can have. Period. (The original “game” here was devised by the author Robert A. Heinlein, who later told Stine about it. They gave the specific reason on why only six books–weight and space in the ship or shelter, for example.) I cannot learn how to repair or build much with a Bible. It does not tell me how to purify water. It tells me nothing about treating a life threatening infection for my child. It says nothing about designing an efficient and effective system of heat or sanitation for my dwelling, or how to build my dwelling to withstand hurricane force winds if I should find myself facing that predicament. The books I chose do tell me that.

    I can use them for many more similar things. Shakespeare or a book of Western art does not.

    It would be quite some time before I or the other survivors would worry over which set of documents we might base our civilization on. I, personally, would wish for something far different than anything that has been used thus far. Some doctrines have seemed to me to be better and more practical, and more right, than most others. I carry the gist of those doctrines I like better in my head and would eventually modify them to suit even better the civilization I would like. And I would advocate for and explain my reasons to others in the hope that we could arrive at a sound and workable basis for civilization.

  31. “Yet we do have one such book, or set of books, with which, as Christians, we agree.”

    Over a 1500 years of OUR history, the history of Western Civilization, conclusively shows you to be in error.

  32. We can all take the books of our own choices, and COMBINE the libraries. Yeesh! And since I am permitted six hundred books – there will be PLENTY to read.

    John – I have already stated the beginning of my 600 books list – so you have grievously insulted me.

  33. “We do not have the same sort of books for moral or political organization because of the wide variety of both existing here on this planet. You cannot get two people, if that, to agree on one or the other.”

    Yet we do have one such book, or set of books, with which, as Christians, we do all agree. The Holy Scriptures do underlie Western civilisation. On the PLANET there are indeed a wide variety of religions, and their books, but for our homeland there has been one.

    “Using the six books I listed, a group of intelligent people can make a go of it after a disaster and start civilization over.”

    Would that be a different civilisation, one not founded on the Scriptures left behind?

    “I simply can think of no wise reason why I would replace one of the books I listed with a Bible…I cannot learn how to repair or build much with a Bible. It does not tell me how to purify water. It tells me nothing about treating a life threatening infection for my child. It says nothing about designing an efficient and effective system of heat or sanitation for my dwelling, or how to build my dwelling to withstand hurricane force winds if I should find myself facing that predicament. The books I chose do tell me that.”

    Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

    “It would be quite some time before I or the other survivors would worry over which set of documents we might base our civilization on. I, personally, would wish for something far different than anything that has been used thus far.”

    A new, different basis would be inferior in lacking the hope of redemption and eternity. Mortal life is short.

    “Society needs a myth or two to survive.”

    How would our Western, Christian civilisational heritage be CONSERVED and not destroyed by replacing its sure foundation with a different “myth”?

  34. Brutus, you are missing an EE treatise, other than that, looks good. I’d like something on calc and linear algebra as well.

  35. Brutus, you are missing an EE treatise, other than that, looks good. I’d like something on calc and linear algebra as well.

    The fact that there are no books designed to answer Brutus’ question is one of the great failures of western civilization.

  37. Jim, you are right, but we can only have six books. The ones I listed contain the most useful APPLICATION data that I know of for the purposes needed in such a scenario. A calculus textbook would be of little use for immediate application of, say, getting a generator back working or building a solid structure. The books I listed contain the actual SPECIFICATIONS for doing so. That is why they would be preferred in these circumstances. The books contain the end products, so to speak, of what the calculus, EE and linear algebra textbooks teach a person to derive.

    The books listed contain, as I stated above, the life’s work of thousands of scientists, researchers and engineers. No one person can carry around in his head all of this data, e.g., Integration tables, Trigonometry tables, all the coefficients and melting and boiling points, number of turns for threading certain bolts and screws according to specific application, tensile strength, etc., etc. And there will be many survivors. Some of these will be knowledgeable of the subjects you speak of. I am fairly knowledgeable. We can teach these fundamentals to others and pass on the torch.

    (A note on linear algebra: Not strictly relevant here, but I am going to make a comment. I think *most* of linear algebra is today mostly obsolete in the same way as knowledge of how to calculate exponents by hand. How many people work out, say, 14 raised to the 32nd by hand? Nobody. I myself seldom do by hand any set of linear equations where more than two unknowns are sought, and thus over two equations are needed. Over two and it just takes too long, too tedious, and too many chances to make a careless mistake. I can do it on my 12 year old TI 83 in 20 seconds or less. Simply use the matrix function. And of course, there is no question about solving for five or six unknowns, to say nothing of dealing with dozens or hundreds of equations. Most of this has to be done by software like MATLAB and such.

    Don’t get me wrong, I studied linear algebra and still use my textbook, It is useful, but I just seldom use those methods. I don’t think anyone does “out in the field” and in practice

    And YES, to some in the peanut gallery, I can do arithmetic by hand and am not one of those idiots that we have to deal with at the cash register that absolutely need a calculator. I am talking about something completely different here. Nobody expects a scientist, mathematician or engineer to use a slide rule today. Modern scientific graphing calculators and computer algebra systems are a godsend and the sine qua non of the world we live in. Many things would be impossible. Spaceflight would be out of the question. )

  38. Mosin Nagant, I think I supplied the essentials of an answer to your queries in my above posts. Beyond that, I will simply say, “You pack your luggage for the trip, I’ll pack mine.”

  39. Svigor says:

    “The fact that there are no books designed to answer Brutus’ question is one of the great failures of western civilization.”

    Yes. In the article where I first saw the question of “which six books,” G. Harry Stine made the exact same comment.

  40. “I think I supplied the essentials of an answer to your queries in my above posts.”

    No need for further clarification.

  41. “What would be your choice? What six books would you take?
    I’ll list my six later and why. I can rebuild civilization with my six books.” _ brutus

    Without the Spirit, the Flesh profiteth nothing.
    Don’t make a hill o’ beans, Brutus. If God has determined this day, thy soul shall be required of thee, your time on earth is done.

    And pretending the last 2000 years doesn’t count, just isn’t done, old man. Not cricket, you know…

  43. I have asked “which six books?” to quite a number of people over the years. It is a telling “game.” The vast majority of people would make terrible decisions regarding their survival in such a scenario.

    That is something to ponder.

    And as I mentioned above, we all know what many of them would attempt when they became aware of their short coming and that someone else had made better decisions concerning preparations.

    And let’s be honest here, though no one has to come out and say so, who would end up being more sought out and looked upon for help and guidance, a man who took the six books I listed, or the man who only brought along a book of art or a religious book? Who would you want to bring your sick baby to who had an infection or who had caught a “bug?” Who would you look to for sanitation and your water supply? Who would you look to for making adequate weapons to defend against the maybe dozens or even more predators who would soon be seeking to take what your group had?

  44. Brutus says:
    May 17, 2012 at 4:59 am

    “Yet we do have one such book, or set of books, with which, as Christians, we agree.”

    Over 1500 years of OUR history, the history of Western Civilization, conclusively shows you to be in error.

    *******************

    That is what I wrote. It was asserted that everyone agreed on the Bible. My statement was that 1500 years of our history says otherwise. It was a series of religious disputes and bloody fraticidal wars over interpretations of scriptures. Moreover, to this very day there is no agreement even among Christians.

    I said NOTHING about “the last 2000 years doesn’t count.” That is a straw man and fabrication.

  45. Re: The origin and context of the “last 2000 years” straw man comment: “Without the Spirit, the Flesh profiteth nothing. Don’t make a hill o’ beans, Brutus. If God has determined this day, thy soul shall be required of thee, your time on earth is done. And pretending the last 2000 years doesn’t count, just isn’t done….”

    Fr John is right that provision for life in the flesh is vain without preparation for eternity. And although we live NOW in a secularised, “post-Christian” milieu, the PAST 1500 (plus) years of at least nominal universal allegiance to the Gospel of Christ in the West is incontrovertible historical FACT, and all the conflicts over details of interpretation that you reference only prove just how seriously it was taken, since our eternal destiny is at stake, that thousands or even millions of lives were laid down for it over those 1500 plus years. The Cross, even in its variant forms, is the true symbol of our people and civilisation.

  46. The secularisers want nothing more than to have those of us who are still “clinging to our religion” to stop now. But I don’t mean and they don’t mind the cheap gospel of the televangelists and the mainline denominations.

  47. “Europe is the Faith and the Faith is Europe.” – Hilaire Belloc

    Truly this may be said of America. Indeed it may be said of all nations of European derivation.

    That is it once could have been said of .

    And so we see the results of this greatest of all possible losses.

  48. I am reminded in this ‘non-battle’ of the movie from the 1950’s “When Worlds Collide.”

    Perhaps I am older than most on this forum, but there is a scene in the movie where they are microfilming (ah, the beauties of ‘high-tech’ wizardry in the 1950’s) all the great and necessary books of Western Civilization, to help the people leaving the Earth, to ‘build anew’ on the new planet, as the ‘space ark’ is to take them there.

    They show microfilming the Chemistry and higher Mathematics books, but they also show them filming animal husbandry, and art and literature, and yes, right along side of it, a big, honking KJV BIBLE! – Not the effing Koran, not the Talmud, not even the Bagavhad-Gita, or the Book of Mormon.

    Brutus denies that religion has a place in our culture, our history, and his own personal Weltanschauung. Very Well. That’s his choice. But he’s a fool, for saying so, and thinking thus. It’s not a case of ‘either-or’ it’s a case of ‘both-and.’ Denise, Mosin, and others have shown that fact, but Brutus can’t see the forest for the trees, and his ‘parlor game’ is still not disguising sufficiently his own Christophobia, and hatred against YHWH God.

    The tired, old, and utterly futile argument that goes something like: “Religious wars and disputes over supposed “Truth” have plagued the West for 1500 years,” still does not deny the fact that Truth was upheld, each and every time it was tested. The results of the Seven Ecumenical Councils are proof of that- to those with eyes to see, and ears to hear. But to Brutus, like a disobedient child who slaps his father, while sitting in his lap, he will have none of it.

    Leave him be. The Fathers say, ‘after the second or third attempt,’ leave a heretic to perish in his own heresy.” It’s what Brutus wants, anyway. If God’s grace is going to save him, there is nothing he can do to resist it. If he persists in his error, he was predestined to be damned all along, and all we are doing is heaping burning coals on his head, in preparation for the day he will meet his (heretofore denied) Master.

    Better to leave him less guilty, and perhaps lessen his eternal punishment that way, my children. Brutus, argue all you want. But you cannot stop the Kingdom of Christ from being built. Neither you, nor the Jews, nor the Talmudics, the Arians, Nestorians, the French Commune, the Soviets, Stalin, Bela Kun, Madelene Murray O’Hair, Clinton, the Obamatation, or the perverse and damned state of Isra-Hell can stop it. For even if we die, we win. For the blood of the Martyrs is the seed of the Kingdom.

    Peddle your wares elsewhere. Like over at VNN or SF.

  49. Exactly right, HarryO.

    This digression from the thread topic began with how some of us avoid television for religious reasons, before drifting into why some of us would “cling to” the Bible after a social/economic collapse rather than re-build on some other foundation. However I appreciate the sharing of the well-researched condensed list of books most useful for physical survival and re-building after a collapse. They are noted and being sought!

  50. Just noticed your last post, Fr John. Yes, absolutely, “the kingdom of Christ cannot stopped,” and is in us. It will survive those enemies and triumph in any collapse.

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