Mississippi
Here’s a link to the archive of the third debate with Jim Giles and Alex Linder.
Note: I turned the moderation queue off for the live thread. It was restored here when the debate was over. In the future, there will be no flaming or personal attacks on this blog, only substantial discussions in the comments.
After listening to Giles rave at the both of you especially on the archives, I have to wonder why you would even go on his program. I understand his hatred of blacks. I even sympathize a great deal, but does he have to accuse people of not having real experience with blacks that live with them as you do? I can understand a stupid comment such as that directed at people in North Dakota or Montana.
Geez, I couldn’t listen to his ranting. He can’t remain civil at all.
This debate was a departure from the previous two. I’m sure it is because Jim has been interacting with VNN Forum over the past week.
Why would Linder deny the holocaust if he would – given the chance – have every Jew killed? Why not celebrate and recalibrate the attempt by standing on the shoulders of a giant?
Giles truly lost it. I would not talk with such a man. He would scare off the average White person. Such a person is never going to help us win over the people we’ll need to actually implement policies we need to preserve our people and culture.
I can assure you this isn’t even close for Jim to truly losing it. You haven’t seen nothing yet.
If, just for the sake of argument, you argue tht New England controls the US as a sort of Empire… The South being its Caribbean outpost, Arizona its desert and Hawaii its pacific port, you begin to see what it really happening.
Everything else rotates around its orbit. It matters not a bit to them if the furthest flung portion of that Empire is browned or if colonial whites are embattled. As long as they get to eat pie for breakfast it’s still their empire. The run the insurance racket, they gets to decide which group wins what. So long as they wield that power you are in thrall to them. Negrophilia is another tool, giving the Shylocks a pound of flesh just another option.
Also the fact that the first portion of the interview was entirely focused on taking away your anonymity and questioning your mental health.
Oh yeah, don’t send that guy a drivers license scan.
At the outset of the debate, I was caught off guard by the suggestion that it is “all theoretical” with me regarding the blacks.
Jesus, I live in Monkeytown, USA! I’ve lived 90% of my life in one of the blackest areas in one of the blackest states in America. They have absolutely destroyed a swath of Alabama, which is larger than some European countries, that stretches from the Mississippi border to the Georgia border.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=monkeytown
“Charmingly racist name for Montgomery, Alabama,used by both black and white denizens and outsiders; refers to the predominately afro-american population.”
Monkey town ! Hahaha.
Mountmonkey.
‘Do I want the VNN forum moving to my town? No.’ -HW
lol…. I love that line. I wouldn’t want them in my town either. Nor would I want Giles or Linder as neighbours. I would much rather be around normal, Southern folks.
I’d 86 both the VNN three ring circus and further “debates” on RFM with Giles.
As always, the people mostly associated with racialist forums and such have proved to be simple contrarians. The VNN discussion thread is ridiculous; now it has descended to several people like Jimmy Marrs playing wannabe criminal defense lawyers with their transparent attempts at trying to portray people in a negative way by mischaracterization, a common tactic today used by nearly everyone.
Association with these people repels normal people like an AIDS patient working as a food server.
Drop ’em fast. No harm done so far, but continuing association is anathema.
Listening to the archive.
That was hilarious: would anyone here really consider it an improvement if all of VNN Forum moved to your neighborhood?
If you broke down on the side of the road, would you rather encounter the Christian gentleman who returned my wallet or the people that Giles met at the Christmas parade in Mississippi, or someone like Craig Cobb?
“I do clearly recall at several points conveying my genuine distaste for any further involvement with White Nationalism. I don’t want to meet any further people who are going to steal my forum or stab me in the back or spread vicious lies and rumors about me over money.”
The part of the current Phora management that dispossessed you of your creation are not self-described “White Nationalists” either. In fact they mock it much more enthusiastically than you yourself have up until now.
HW, I have not yet listened to round 3 but I wanted to propose a presentation format I have found very effective, which is a powerpoint style slide show combined with audio explanation. Perhaps with SNN. Topic? Tactics and infrastructure. Secession has outgrown WN which is a necessary and healthy thing. The BUGSers will continue to push the Mantra which will grow the ranks outside of the Red States.
Secession-ready states don’t need to convinced of White Genocide. Heck, in TX and LA people are ready, but are still wrestling with the smoothest way to do it.
I like Jim, he’s a fiery White man and he has a place.
What he needs to understand, though, is that living around blacks [is real world experience]. They are a different people, and proximity to them is enough to impress that upon any White man or woman.
I never listened to any of those “debates” for one thing I believe HW when he says they are dysfunctional, and so why would I bother? I view them as a waste of time.
If you want more proof go to Uncle Harold’s website and see what he deals with and has dealt with. The people thinking about moving there half the time are drug addicts grasping at the last hope.
I guess the best we can hope for with WN is for it to be an intellectual defense of white ethno nations.
I’d guess Jim Giles might be quite useful if it came to a fight but we’re not at that point yet – however either way the first two seem to have gone down well so not all bad.
@Afterthought
“Secession has outgrown WN which is a necessary and healthy thing. The BUGSers will continue to push the Mantra which will grow the ranks outside of the Red States.
Secession-ready states don’t need to convinced of White Genocide. Heck, in TX and LA people are ready, but are still wrestling with the smoothest way to do it.”
Spot on.
I live in a nice, friendly and safe neighborhood. Most of the residents are Christians. Problem is, many of them belong to churches and organisations that are hell bent on bringing niggers into our living space.
Several denominations in the area with missionary outreaches have brought in hordes of third worlders and have encouraged adoptions.
I saw a sign in front of a church a month or two ago that was still soliciting cash and supplies for Haiti.
Really, Mr. Linder person seems very shaming, very battering, and for absolutely no reason. It’s just like he wants personal information— who cares what someone calls themselves? And the emphasis on names and censorship…what is the point?
Hearing this debate about “wn” would be interesting between Hunter Wallace and Truck Roy (SF radio). Those two come off as comparatively balanced. Hearing HW talk about more specific ethno-nationalism (like the south) versus “wn” would be interesting.
I can’t for the life of me imagine what the point is of having a conversation of any sort with the self-styled Aryan superbeings over at the Neckbeard Net Nazi (NNN) forum. Who cares what that bunch of godless white trash think?
Not me. I’d rather be ruled by the blackest Negro in Mississippi than one of their sort.
Afterthought wrote:
‘HW, I have not yet listened to round 3 but I wanted to propose a presentation format I have found very effective, which is a powerpoint style slide show combined with audio explanation. Perhaps with SNN. Topic? Tactics and infrastructure. Secession has outgrown WN which is a necessary and healthy thing. The BUGSers will continue to push the Mantra which will grow the ranks outside of the Red States.
Secession-ready states don’t need to convinced of White Genocide. Heck, in TX and LA people are ready, but are still wrestling with the smoothest way to do it.’
I don’t exactly understand what you are suggesting. Do you mean something for the general public? What do you think should be better explained?
Robert,
They are quite fond of you.
I welcome their fondness.
If you were to comb through every city in America to hand select for the most angry, alienated, irreligious, disagreeable, dysfunctional, miserable, obnoxious, rude, and offensive malcontents you could find, you would have something like VNN Forum.
That’s the major reason why I can’t take them seriously: VNN Forum is not a random sample of the White population. Those people aren’t a “nation” in any sense of the word. They are overwhelmingly drawn from an extremely narrow subdemographic.
99% of the type of people (particularly women) that you would meet in your average White Southern community are completely absent there. If you rule out winning over Christians, conservatives, sports fans, and women as a matter of principle, who is left to join your “White ethnostate”?
If you were to concentrate types like that in some designated geographic location, would 99% of White people even want to live there? If not, how could such a movement ever go anywhere?
Lol @ Hitler… so much of “wn” seems unbalanced on this. It’s such a non-American issue, as you say– you sound like a real southerner here. Americans just didn’t have the same position in regard to the war that people moving from Europe surrounding it did.
Americans are not Europeans. They were not in Europe during the war, etc. Most of them understand they fought Fascism as an ECONOMIC system. (The jewish stuff all came later… um, holocaust museums did not exist in 1942, lol).
Propaganda has spent millions (and years) trying to ensure that Americans think “FASCISM” = “WHITE.” It seems the whole purpose of the History channel. But Fascism is an Economic System.
The Hilter channel SERVES TO TRAIN THE GAZE AWAY from the Reality that Fascism is an Economic System and has nothing to do with being “white.” (It can, as in national socialism). But it can be multi=cult, too, like in u.s.
The point of “ethno-nationalism” seems that ECONOMISM (“right” or “left”) is then thrown out as the Organizing principle of the entire society.
With ethno-nationalism, one need not have the right IDEA in order to belong, as in theocracy or political correctness (so can’t be endangered then as heretics). It is the only way to have free thought, freedom of association, freedom of conscience, etc.
I think we were both taken by surprise.
The debate was supposed to be about strategy and tactics. It ended up being mostly about the garbage posted on VNN Forum.
Understandably surprised. You’d think that after Giles banged on about strategy, tactics, leadership, etc in bold and enlarged font at VNN that’s actually what he wanted to discuss. But it seems more likely that he was stewing over criticism he received on that thread and was just champing at the bit to let you both have it. That’s probably why he dragged out the “real world experience” thing so long, way past the point it was obvious that the crucial distinction was not some real world experience versus none, rather plentiful real world experience versus extreme real world experience; he’d been planning on this line of attack and he wasn’t going to give it up just because you responded rationally to his queries. In hindsight you probably should have been prepared for an outburst like this. And for future reference, just because the bulk of your opposition is going to come from libtard bedwetters, it’d be a good idea to have tactics thought out for dealing with emotional extremists from the racialist end.
Linder was talking an awful lot about Ernst Roehm. There’s your answer. He wants a street fight or wrestling match.
Honestly, I don’t care about Hitler.
I’m convinced it is a Northern thing. In my experience, they are far more likely to be interested in fascism and Jews than Southerners. They are far more likely to come to racialism through some other means than personal experience in interacting with non-Whites.
Here in the South, we are not stupid enough to believe that Jews are responsible for making Yankees the way they are because they were already shoving their “new birth of freedom” and “equality” and “civil rights” down our throats before most of the Jews even got here.
Everyone can go watch “Lincoln” in the theater and see how the “White Republic” was destroyed. Hell, there is a historical monument about Reconstruction less than a mile from where I grew up that tells that story.
In the second debate, I believe Linder mentioned Roehm to prove that all fags aren’t effeminate queers, which is true. We didn’t discuss homosexuals in this debate though.
I’m thinking of an audio-visual program on a budget that would appeallingly explain to the target audience why their life would be more comfortable and secure after secession and a comfortable path to get there.
A strong case can be made, in my opinion, and it is preferable to and more productive than arguing with the non-target audience.
I haven’t listened to this one and don’t plan to based on these comments.
Despite his excesses, there is no doubt Alex Linder is a brilliant guy. He deserves a wide readership and shouldn’t be judged by his commenters. That would be like judging HW based on comments.
People need to take Linder like they take anyone. Take what’s important, and leave the rest (I ignore the personal stuff myself.
Also, VNN Forum can be a good source of information. You can skip the discussions and still find a lot value at VNN Forum by using it as a library.
Excluding the anti-Chrustiniry, my disagreements with Linder and VNN are more in the zone of style not substance.
Interesting broadcast.
Hunter Wallace seems a fairly balanced man. It is most unfortunate that he has such a negative view of White Nationalism. From my own experience, I have to agree with Don Black when he says that White Nationalism tends to attract the best and the worst.
My line in the sand is criminal activity. If anybody advocates and/or is involved in criminal activities, I don’t associate with them.
White Nationalism, in my opinion, is far from monolithic. There are all kinds of people. We have outstanding individuals on our side, such as Bob Whitaker, Horus the Avenger, Don Black, David Duke, Jared Taylor and many other, more anonymous people who are excellent human beings.
I’m pro-White because I think Genocide is immoral and evil. Since there is a Genocide going on, which is being implemented by flooding every White country and only White countries with non-Whites & force-assimilating them in order to blend White people our of existence – I oppose that. I oppose White Genocide and that’s why I spread the message of the pro-White cause.
Mr. Wallace, since you are a sensible person with high moral standards I strongly encourage you to explore the BUGS website and get familiar with all the material that’s there.
I do praise you Mr. Wallace for defending White Southerners. I would like to call you attention, however, on the fact that anti-Whites (those who label themselves as “anti-racists” as a code word) are targeting all White people for Genocide, not only Southerners. Our entire race is targeted for Genocide via immigration & assimilation. It’s of the utmost importance to be aware of that and to spread that message to all the White-and-normal people everywhere.
These debates are getting really silly. Giles and Linder come unhinged far too easily. Giles acts like an insecure maniac, and his questions aren’t substantive. Linder acts like a bitter adolescent in everything he says, a total prima donna.
The whole “would you kill this particular jew? ANSWER ME!” was just ridiculous. Totally non-productive.
Exclude/include people based on whether they identify as white and actively work towards our goals. If they’re Jewish, then chances are that they won’t be a part of any white conservative secessionist movement.
If they’ve got some jewish heritage, then that probably bears a bit more skepticism given the possibility of split ethnic loyalties. Exclude them if it turns out they are actively anti-white, just like you would any white christian crypto-liberal.
Jewish ‘conservatives’ have hijacked right-wing politics by adopting extreme positions on subsets of the big-tent conservative platform, war and money in particular. You don’t get a whole lot of Jews going for less jew-wars, less jew-banksterism, more immigration control, and less cultural degeneracy. If they do go for those things, then at this stage in the game what the hell have you really got to fight about?
I had a gut feeling this debate was going to veer off subject.
After listening to the archive, I believe I handled myself well. I made it clear that exterminating the Jews or murdering anyone who is innocent for ideological reasons is immoral. I didn’t bring the subject up, but that’s the type of debates you will find in White Nationalism.
I’m actually glad that I did this interview. In particular, I did a good job explaining why I am not a White Nationalist. It is not because I am unstable or inconsistent. Rather, it is because of some of the people who I have had the misfortune of meeting over the years (think of HAC who wrote a whole fantasy novel about me being his arch enemy and the President of the United States), and the ways they have attempted to damage me.
At one point, Jim asked me to describe myself. I said something like, “I am just a normal White guy from South Alabama.”
Yes, HW, I’m glad you took a stand against the call for murder. Your approach is much more likely resonate with ordinary Southerners (or just ordinary people in general) than what they were saying and how they were saying it.
Oh that is wierd, that’s the debate I linked to through the website. Hmmm. Well anyway that was awkward listening. He seemed a bit like an over eager teacher, who doesn’t realize that he’s not talking to his pupils.
Of the white supremacist options a southern partition is the only real hope. It’s obviously a profound threat to WN pipe dreams.
To wit: you could intersperse discussions of the budgetary and tax advantages of secession with scenes of HW at church raffles, at little league soccer games, blue collar work sites, state capitol buildings justing talking calm, attractive sense to white-and-normal people.
It’s true, you were definitely the level-headed, normal person in the room.
I don’t have in mind people like Jared Taylor, Kevin MacDonald, Kyle Rogers, Sam Dixon, my roommates from Virginia, Don Black, Peter Brimelow, etc.
Just browse over the VNN Forum thread. That’s why I am not a White Nationalist. I don’t want to deal with people like that anymore. If that is the White Nationalist movement, then we need an alternative.
I want to deal with ordinary people, normal people with families, the well-adjusted type of people who live in my own community and who we saw at the League of the South conference in July.
I didn’t know Don Black said that. It’s true. WNism attracts the good and the not so good at the same time. There are good people out there besides the ones mentioned above: Edwards and MacDonald, for example.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I was looking forward to serious debate on political strategy and tactics but instead it’s comedy hour. We get almost two hours on the latest white nationalist “drama.” The moderator really steals the show though. He truly is unhinged. He’s too loud at times, he swears to much, his questions are bizarre, etc. EVERY interesting conversation is hijacked and derailed by the guy as he talks over them. LOL it almost works as a comedy.
In “Freedom’s Sons,” the book HAC wrote about me because Robert Campbell caught him using a sockpuppet on OD, he defeats me with his fantasy army in Montana and has me assassinated by my mistress in the Oval Office with a pencil through the left eye.
Linder is a literary gadfly. Now and then he crafts a humorous sentence. And that is all with him. He has this delusional idea that he is a political leader. Yet the man doesn’t have a political bone in his body. He is clueless about how to get along with his own natural allies.
I’m sure that interacting with VNN Forum is what set Jim off this week. See the Mary Poppins pronunciation competition.
I was well prepared to discuss strategy and tactics. Consider this survey from the Luntz book:
How do you want the companies you do business with to make you feel?
Respected: 40%
Valued: 29%
Well-Serviced: 27%
Secure: 24%
Confident: 15%
Appreciated: 13%
Professional: 13%
Comfortable: 11%
In Control: 11%
Happy: 4%
Socially Responsible: 4%
Relaxed: 3%
Connected: 3%
Hopeful: 2%
The single most important quality in the business world for a customer is feeling “respected” and the second most important quality is feeling “valued.”
As for tactics, I was prepared to shift the discussion to Alinsky:
The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat. It also means a collapse of communication, as we have noted.
Remember my review of Rules For Radicals?
“One can lack any of the qualities of an organizer – with one exception – and still be effective and successful. That exception is the art of communication. It does not matter what you know about anything if you cannot communicate to your people. In that event you are not even a failure. You’re just not there.
Communication with others takes place when they understand what you’re trying to get across to them. If they don’t understand, then you are not communicating regardless of words, pictures, or anything else. People only understand things in terms of their own experience. Further, communication is a two-way process. If you try to get your ideas across to others without paying attention to what they have to say to you, you can forget about the whole thing.”
Door to door secession petition. A long roll to unfurl at the legislature. That’s what Wilberforce did with Slavery of course.