Alabama
Editor’s Note: I wrote this article over two years ago. I was considering writing a new article about the subject, but nothing ever changes in the White Nationalist movement, and everything that I said below is as true today as it was back then.
I bring this up now only because the issue has resurfaced. I’ve long since moved on from White Nationalism. I have also made my peace with the movement and honestly I have nothing further to say about it.
Lately, I have been hearing the same stories from racially conscious women about the White Nationalist movement – they value their race and are eager to participate and do their part to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” but they are alienated and disillusioned by some of the “wounded soldier” type rhetoric that they see at WN conferences and on the internet.
Before I am accused of picking a fight, I want to emphasize here lots of White Nationalists like James Edwards and Richard Spencer are happily married. I also couldn’t be happier with my own relationship. In spite of this, there is still a very loud group of these “wounded soldiers” out there – think of Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump – who have had bad experiences with American women in general, and it is a problem attracting and keeping women involved in the movement.
I bring this up because women are indispensable to any movement that seeks to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” and there are attractive young women who I know who are being repulsed by these types, and I would much rather see them end up with some of my bright racially conscious friends than with the losers they are meeting in bars.
Why aren’t more women involved with the White Nationalist movement?
There is a conversation going on about this in the comments. It is such an interesting topic that it warrants a separate thread. Everyone who has attended a White Nationalist conference has noticed that men are always drastically overrepresented.
Why is that?
Dealbreaker #1: Because they are offended by the people who rail against White women on account of their bad experiences with dating and marriage. They shouldn’t have dated women like that anyway, but take out their sexual frustrations on all women with untenable generalizations.
Dealbreaker #2: Because of the HBD cogelite nerds who glorify Asian women and who denigrate White women. This is one of the biggest pet peeves.
Dealbreaker #3: Because of the aura of negativity that surrounds the White Nationalist movement. Most women can’t stand a constant drumbeat of negativity and self consciously avoid demoralizing websites.
Women like to see confidence in men. When they see men who have no confidence in themselves and who preach an “all is lost” political message, they instinctively turn away from a movement that they perceive as a bunch of losers, especially when they encounter a hostile atmosphere on pro-White websites.
Dealbreaker #4: Because White Nationalism attracts a disproportionate number of geeky, socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome or who are creepy in some way as well as the homosexual misogynists who are on the warpath against women.
Dealbreaker #5: Because there is a lot of crossover between the Men’s Rights community and White Nationalism and this is a turn off to women who are culturally conservative and therefore more likely to be Christians.
Dealbreaker #6: Because the vast majority of women who qualify as “traditional” in America are strongly Christian or religious in some way. They are turned off to White Nationalism because of the atheism, misogyny, and lewd discussions about women on White Nationalist websites.
Anyone who goes to church knows that there are far more “traditional” women than men in America. Among women, it is fashionable in some circles to save yourself for marriage, whereas few men think that way these days. A respectable woman is not going to be dressed like a slut in some bar or club on the weekend.
Dealbreaker #7: Because women will always be less interested in politics than men. White Nationalism focuses heavily on politics and science and less on culture, family, and religion which are subjects which attract more conservative women.
Dealbreaker #8: Because women are more empathetic and are natural conciliators and thus mix like oil and water with the curmudgeons who are drastically overrepresented among White Nationalists.
Dealbreaker #9: Because some White Nationalists practice a type of effeminate political correctness and consciously go out of their way to elevate Asians and Muslims in particular over White Americans.
Feel free to take issue with any of the above positions. I have heard this view about White Nationalism from so many different women on so many different occasions that I am convinced it represents something of a consensus among traditional White women.
I wish someone would test this theory by creating a pro-White website with these dealbreakers in mind: exclude the HBD nerds who glorify Asian women, the negative curmudgeons, the “all is losters,” the creepy weirdos, the embittered misogynists, the effeminate homosexual intellectuals, and the Neo-Nazi atheists on a jihad against Christianity.
The website would need a good editor that would balance political discussion with a hefty complement of articles about culture, religion, and family. There would also have to be more talk about ethnicity and pocketbook issues.
I would bet money that would solve the problem. In fact, I predict that racially conscious women would start coming out of the woodwork because women are more social than men and would be attracted like moths to a flame to other women who share their views and who are potential friends.
It should be interesting to see what kind of feedback this post receives in the comments. I think I am onto something here.
Note: Richard Spencer addressed the same issue in a video at Trad Youth.
#1 because ignoring it won’t resolve anything. White women need to change, but they will not due to their 100% certainly they are perfect and White men are flawed. Their attitude on this thread is the same attitude they carry into their daily lives with the men in their lives. I pity those men and what free men to see the attitude in full force and to think about how that would impact a life with these kinds of women.
#2 we are not in a stalemate. White men are losing. Every day, the laws are written or tweaked to put us at a disadvantage. White women do not protest these laws. Not even the ones who have only sons. I think that says all we need to know about women. Our culture continues to become more anti masculine. Once again, our women do not protest this. They do not boycott these anti masculine products or advertisers. Instead they are mass consumers of that anti White man culture. What does this say about our “helpmates”?
#3 The idea we need White women in the cause is false. Anything that starts to appeal to women loses the interest of men. That’s easily verifiable with some research. Women will not vote/ act against BRA/WRA in any numbers. Our focus should be on recruiting White men. Show White men their strength, encourage them to demonstrate their strength and power, and White women will follow. Let’s make great White men again, let those White men turn their individual woman to our cause. If that White man is willing to accept the risks associated with women.
#4 White men should know the risk involved. Then they can make their own decision about dealing with women.
#5 This thread shows the true nature of women who are supposed to be pro White men. They are very pro White man, as long as your version of masculinity fits their picture. We cannot allow women to define how men should act in the world. We’ve been doing that for generations now and the results have been shit for everyone.
#6 I enjoy how women recoil at the idea of being replaced as mothers. They don’t recoil at feminism’s attempts at replacing men. I enjoy pointing out the other double standards of women, on this and the other topics that come up. I think it’s useful for men to see them in action and have those actions explained by other men.
#7 We all have our pet issues. On day to day issues, I believe women are our biggest threat. How they support BRA with their votes, how they can make false criminal charges against us with impunity, what their TV viewing habits say about them, they way they divorce us etc etc. It’s not that difficult to move and leave most daily BRA issues behind, but when you do, there will still be all the White women in your life to varying degrees supporting BRA in a myriad of ways.
#8 If tomorrow we woke up and the South was free, with every negro, beaner, gook, yankee etc gone without a shot fired we still have to deal with White women ( and men) indoctrinated to vary degrees with the anti White man feminism. The reality of feminism means relationship between men and women will not return to anything close to historical and healthy norms in our life time. Or in our sons lives. Men must know that reality and deal with it on their terms, not on a woman’s terms
#9 I think this is a very positive message for men who want to have children without the risks and fiscal liabilities of women. Very verifiable risks and liabilities to anyone will to put forth some effort on google
Chris – thaks for being a decent fellow.
Thamsey is a flat out HOMO – and Stoned Loser is NUTS. I think dementia is settling in. He’s still trying to promote White Eggs in alien wombs as a sensible propostion.
I haven’t read any of these latest exchanges, but people are complaining via email, and +400 comments is enough for one discussion.
I didn’t realize the comments had been turned off. Should be open now.
My opinion is this :
http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=157172
I’ll clarify that accepting women isn’t as much as a problem as begging them. It’s just ridiculous.
A lot of wns complain about how mainstream politicians beg for Jewish support, well that’s how I smirk when wns beg for female support.
All of the problematic message forums accommodate women into power positions and view it as some sort of progress, not simply merit.
I’m going to write a follow up article on women and Southern Nationalism.
Once I’m done ironing out the details, I’ll be able to further support evidence for my theory about kissing ass to women and being a problematic message forum.
I don’t believe in “white knighting.” I just think it is a loss when young attractive women are turned off from nationalism because of the “wounded soldier” types on the internet.
It would be much better for us if these women were becoming wives, mothers, and mates. Saving the White race starts with having lots of White children.
1) Western women are more interested in makeup , one-upping each other, the mall and flat bellies needed to please you dehumanizing pornography-obsessed males than they are the future of their children
2) Women who want a return to our white culture want it to be a wholesome culture. They’re afraid to connect with men who spew about niggers, spics and kikes all day and talk about “white-trash sluts” who date nonwhites
3) The natural human instinct is supposed to be for men to protect our territory
It shouldn’t concern anyone if women are involved or not. Rare is the good woman who concerns herself with politics.
Men win the world and create the world, and women then follow along. If anything whites have lost the world because we’re too busy trying to placate our women. Guess what? Women will never be placated by anything other than the firm hand of the victorious male.
So let’s win first, and then enjoy the spoils. Until then, we can continue to watch our young blondes be taken by Blacks, Muslims and Hispanics.
Again, let’s rehash:
1. Retake the world.
2. Reap the booty.
Horse before cart, always.
After seeing what pro white activism is like, I don’t think our women should be involved. It is a dirty, nasty, business and our opponents are hell bent on genocide. So I think our women should be protected as much as possible.
How do you get women involved while protecting them from the nastiness? This stuff isn’t healthy for any woman.
>Saving the White race starts with having lots of White children.
The few people involved in WN are not going to save the White race by having lots of children.
The anti-Whites are flooding the entire non-White world into all White countries. Whites are only 8% of the world and non-Whites are 92% of the world. You couldn’t possible have enough babies to counter this continual flood of non-Whites.
What you have to do is stop the flood and the forced racial integration as soon as possible.
The problem is Whites are still scared of being called racist, so they won’t stand up for themselves. Even WN are too scared to go out and protest with you. Despite all their chest beating they are all scared of a little word.
The only woman I ever met who was happy that I listened to Wagner in my spare time, and who hated niggers instinctively, was a Chinese girl. Go figure.
“I’m going to write a follow up article on women and Southern Nationalism.”
I will comment when you write it…
I think women need to be more thick-skinned about the fair criticism.
For the men, I recommend Matt Parrott’s writings on the topic. He makes a good case for traditional roles but without misogyny or “wounded soldierism.”
JP, I don’t think that putting out these negative statements about Western women in general helps at all. If insulting White women helped then the WN movement would be much larger and full of women.
On thing I have noticed is that this is much less of an issue in SN. We still need more women involved in SN but at the recent LS national conference, for example, there were many women there. On the other hand, I’m told (though I don’t know because I wasn’t there) that the recent CofCC conference was basically an all-male affair and the average age of the men was very old.
Women have been demoralized as much or more than men, having been through the same “education.” The white man has been attacked and attacked in order to subvert white women. Use the mantra. It’s straightforward, truthful words can get through to white women. After all it’s white women that concern you isn’t it?
You don’t have to be part of the white nationalist movement to have white children. Miscegenation is not very common, it’s the minority. The white race is not in danger of being extinct.
Re: Iceman
1.) I’m not a White Nationalist.
2.) I still believe in racial differences. I still consider myself pro-White. I like White people. I wish we could go back to a more conservative society like the Old South where we had stronger families.
3.) I believe that the people who enjoy reading these websites should be meeting women, getting married, and having lots of White kids. I think it would be great if there were more women involved because it would be easier for men to meet more compatible mates.
4.) I don’t see how anyone could object to getting more attractive young women involved in “the movement” whether it is White Nationalism or Southern Nationalism.
5.) The fact is, whether it is WN or SN, we have a lot of young single men, many of whom are normal, well adjusted, well educated and ready to start families, and like Richard Spencer said in the Trad Youth video, they should be meeting women instead of getting extremely misogynistic and misanthropic about life in general.
Notice how when one critiques why Women reject white nationalism, the problem is blamed on the white nationalist movement itself. But when one asks why Jews strongly critique white nationalism, the criticism isn’t directed at white nationalist behavior but at Jews.
If women reject wn, it’s because wn is doing something wrong.
If Jews attack wn, it’s because they are Jews.
I had better luck at the CofCC conference. Text me about that
Profound moment in women is when she endures pain in labor. That in itself is an achievement far greater than academics .
Seems to be plenty of females at Stormfront.
“Anyone who goes to church knows that there are far more “traditional” women than men in America. Among women, it is fashionable in some circles to save yourself for marriage, whereas few men think that way these days. A respectable woman is not going to be dressed like a slut in some bar or club on the weekend.”
There are many traditional women with strong family background. The msm highlight sluts,femminist et. That’s why Paula Deen was taking down.
I’ve been to several paleocon and/or WN conferences.
The men I met at these events bore no resemblance whatsoever to the bitter, gloomy, awkward “wounded soldier” stereotype. They were intelligent, polite, cheerful, and brave. (Online, of course, its a different story. Trolls and provocateurs strive to create a madhouse atmosphere in the comments section of any White advocacy site.)
The attendees were mostly men, but that doesn’t mean that the wives, girlfriends, sisters, mothers and daughters back home don’t support the ideas of their menfolk.
I’m not wn so this argument is purely an intellectual exercise, but I guess theoretically, the problem wouldn’t be that women are there, but that men are expected to adapt their behavior to the women being there.
I could see it having an effect on the topics chosen for conservation if not carefully monitored. This is one example where I think I agree with Mazdac, Helios and Ix.
I could also for see a scenario where an individual women becomes “the darling” of the group, kind of like Starr. I’m not saying that always happens but..
This is an interesting article. I find that women do NOT reject “White Nationalism”; they reject individuals, inconsistency and hypocrisy. I am a White Nationalist. I have been married for 20 years, my wife shares my views and we have 5 children, all have been homeschooled. Thus far, we see no Derek Black situation on the horizon.
The fundamental problem with White Nationalism in the USA has been inconsistency and a great many people who are long on talk and short on walk. For instance, Hunter, how long have you been married, yet you make a number of value judgments absent the real experience of marriage I seems, DO NOT take his as an insult. YES, in this area, you must have first-hand experience. I once listened for over 2 hours to a young man tell me all about combat, all based on his video game experience. Frankly, when I told him what Somalia was really like, he was speechless.
I can tell you that men in our Movement are quick to attack women who have engaged in racial treason, while not holding many so called “White Intellectuals” with their china-dolls to the same standard. You said it Hunter, “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” many women see the “Intellectual Giants who many White Nationalists hold up as “Leaders”, and see them walk around hand in hand with non-White spouses and half-breed offspring. These talking heads talk and write a good game, but in reality contribute NOTHING. That is a direct quote from one female I know who considers the hypocrisy of the Movement to be a major turn off. There are also elements in the White Nationalist Movement who take the Patriarchal position, interestingly many who do, have not been in a lasting relationship, if at all. This position comes more from a religious than from a true Nationalist foundation. This is problematic. I for one do NOT want women in combat, but at the same time, I have seen very talented women who are racially aware who are greater assets to our cause than many men. The Movement has excluded them for all the wrong reasons while elevating inadequate men. Your statement, “some White Nationalists practice a type of effeminate political correctness and consciously go out of their way to elevate Asians and Muslims in particular over White Americans.”, has no basis, you provided no sourcing or examples, in fact you provided no real sourcing for most of the assumptions in your opinion piece. Your #’s 1, 2, & 3, can apply to any demographic, to apply them solely to White Nationalists is dishonest. You make pseudo-scientific assumptions in #’s 4, 5, & 6, that again lack sources. Do you have Asperger’s? Are you socially awkward? With all due respect, your photo gives the impression of “Geeky”, is this why you do NOT post it on your site nor use your real name? Both of which are now well known, yet you do NO post them. An honest answer to these questions about yourself may provide insight into this subject. Did you not make a statement a few years ago to the effect that you were “undersexed”? That probably had more to do with you and less about White Nationalism. You are NOT correct with your assumption in #7. Have you checked the composition of ALL elected offices in the USA? There are other systemic issues regarding women. For instance, women do have a natural aversion to conflict; White Nationalism has been ripe with negative conflict. I might also add that the Jews have systematically targeted our women since the early 1950. White women were key to the Jews integration scheme. You asked for critique of your Essay, you did not ask what the solution is, and there is one. I doubt you will post this, so I will link to this page and post my reply on Facebook and elsewhere. It is a great topic and I will be doing a Radio Show on it in August.
Re: Whites Unite
The vast majority of men who attend these events are normal, well adjusted people, but the embittered “wounded soldier” types unquestionably exist, and they are a vocal minority on the internet.
I wasn’t at the last Amren conference, but I have been told by several people who were there that one of these “wounded soldiers” went into a diatribe against women during the Q&A session.
socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome
Hey!
True, there are many weirdos among nationalists of all stripes, but I don’t think all of us drive women and men on the fence away like some of the hate-spewing bad apples involved.
It’s not all of us.
Rather, it is a small vocal minority who are creating a negative impression that drives away sympathetic women.
It couldn’t have been any worse than David Duke’s grandstanding and Hart’s reaction.
Women don’t reject white nationalism.
Women publicly conform to the dominant culture more then men.
Women *practise* white nationalism irl more than men do.
“but the embittered “wounded soldier” types unquestionably exist”
and it only takes one
I used to think the same thing about white nationalists and Jews. Stormfronters were just a minority, the average WN was really a Jared Taylor.
Then I realized I was wrong, that the average WN actually is a Jew-obsessive lunatic. Stormfront and VNN indeed do represent the community.
I’m wondering if Hunter will experience similar letdown regarding WNs views towards women. whether his expectation that “women haters” are just a minority will not actually materialize.
That said, at least the big name wns are on Hunter’s side. Kevin Macdonald, David Duke etc. And they aren’t on my side regarding Jews.
1.) I don’t care about the issue.
2.) I don’t believe the WN movement will ever change.
3.) I believe that everything that I said in the article above is true.
4.) I believe that repulsing young eligible women is a loss for the movement that is felt most acutely by young eligible men who are forced into the whole bar scene and settling for incompatible women.
5.) It would be preferable to draw the women into the movement and to “secure our existence and future for white children” by providing a venue for men and women to meet more compatible mates.
“Women *practise* white nationalism irl more than men do.”
True that. That’s why all the niggers are restricted to the ghettoes up North. White mothers do not like having their children having anything to do with your average black.
“I used to think the same thing about white nationalists and Jews. Stormfronters were just a minority, the average WN was really a Jared Taylor.
Then I realized I was wrong, that the average WN actually is a Jew-obsessive lunatic. Stormfront and VNN indeed do represent the community.”
Actually not. Whites from high to low pretty much share Jared Taylor’s views as exhibited by their actions if not their words. Just look at all the white employees of most Fortune 1000 companies. They don’t work with blacks and they don’t live near them either.
And everyone knows that blue collar Northern Whites have the same attitude towards living among jungle bunnies as do Southern rednecks.
“men who are forced into the whole bar scene and settling for incompatible women”
That’s simply ridiculous. No one forces anybody into the bar scene and there are plenty of other ways to meet eligible women if you have any semblance of class or education.
IMO those websites have many non-White agitators and govt operatives on them. The skilled agitators set a bad example and bitter Whites follow them like sheep.
If DNA testing was introduced to prove racial identity, I expect those websites would take a very different appearance.
Something I noticed is BUGS had a very different atmosphere, despite having no moderation.
The trolling started in earnest over there, just before the SPLC finished their investigation and wrote that expose. Of course the trolls assure everyone they are Pro-White.
Dude, as soon as you make it known you or you’re movement “need” women, you’ve already lost. Women hate neediness. Be men with a plan who look like you’re going somewhere and women will fall in line.
Re: “young eligible men who are forced into the whole bar scene and settling for incompatible women”:
No one is ever FORCED to follow fallen (and falling) women into the drinkhouses. You could as well choose to meet the VIRTUOUS women in conservative Christian MEETINGHOUSES, on the first day of every week!
Confession before secession.
I have often commented that some of the female commenters on this site, though a minority, actually write much better (I look forward to reading some of them) with more common sense than most of the regular male commenters.
Despite all of the angry spittle flecked diatribes, white women are far less likely to screw or marry outside their race then white men. Some of the reasons are obvious, for example they have more to lose. So a movement that advocates healthy white western culture, and values, will naturally attract white women. No pandering needed. An insistence of traditional roles isn’t a deal breaker either, as long as it remains wedded to a spiritual foundation.
Any other well traveled southerners notice that southern women seem more likely to date/breed with/marry non whites than you see even in the northeast or west coast? I don’t know about the midwest but thats what I’ve noticed.
My penultimate comment about meeting virtuous women was NOT intended to be taken that one should go to church to meet women! There is only one right reason or motive for attending corporate worship. Virtuous women do have that motive, and attend meetinghouses rather than drinkhouses. Like attracts like.
Re: Jim
We don’t “need” women. It is a matter of keeping the ones who are already won over.
Also I think a lot of posters here are giving female participants the benefit of the doubt and overlooking the sort of lounge-style posters that dominate a lot of the message forums. I don’t see why the same thing that happens on the internet (“loungification”) wouldn’t happen in real life if not monitored. It’s true that some males lower the quality of discussion as well, but males who do it get punished. Females bring pussy-whipped males down with them.
Rikki-Tikki
“IMO those websites have many non-White agitators and govt operatives on them. The skilled agitators set a bad example and bitter Whites follow them like sheep.”
Definitely. When i was a leftist years ago i knew Jewish leftists who used to talk about going to sites like Stormfront to troll. They did it for fun.
Most white women will not get involved in race-based movements or organizations until they personally feel threatened. I meet far too many who just don’t see the gravity of our situation. If they did, I would hope they wouldn’t let a few complainers get in the way.
The other thing that is different about BUGS, is it puts people to work. At the big WN websites, most are there to shoot the breeze.
If the Devil finds a Man idle, he’ll set him at Work.
Think of WN as ideological school of thought, not a real political/social movement of actual people banding together. To think otherwise is to waste one’s life.
Southern Nationalism as best I can tell is the usual vanity play, Essays for Egos, where a few dozen white men produce essays, congratulate themselves and then for the life of them never understanding why they never become a mass movement.
Hunter and his Southron compatriots are fine upstanding men, but they are above politics, and they offer nothing for their fellow Southrons except their egos.
The LoS started off with great fanfare, and a good many tough sounding essay by tough sounding men. Of course this got the fine women folk labeled “racist” and the men folk did little for them except produce the black confederate myths for the grannies like Connie.
So my score card has SN as the usual right wing vanity play, that will spend its time having what amounts to academia level squabbles.
((((Before I am accused of picking a fight, I want to emphasize here lots of White Nationalists like James Edwards and Richard Spencer are happily married.)))
So White Nationalists are ok with gay marriages now???
i find that if you openly speak up about race with Danish women that they don’t mind it at all. Indeed they see it as provocatively charming. The Swedes not so much. I have yet to figure out the Norwegians, but I understand that they are hyper ethnocentric from most of the Danes i’ve met.
They don’t seem to mind frank discussions. It’s the men who status seek and act all liberal when you tell ’em what you really think.
LoS will accomplish nothing.