Dixie
Over at Counter-Currents, Matt Parrott and Gregory Hood are debating the merits of Christianity to the project of saving the White race.
Naturally, I see this issue through the lens of Southern Nationalism, and I have explained on many occasions why I don’t believe that Christianity played much of a role in our racial decline.
– The American South was fervently racialist and Christian for three centuries.
– The Confederacy was fervently racialist and Christian. See Stonewall Jackson.
– The South became more religious after the War Between the States. The Redemption movement and the Lost Cause were heavily religious.
– The Jim Crow South was more religious than the North and the West. Southern ministers opposed the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s.
– The Southern Baptist Convention didn’t embrace anti-racism until the early 1990s. It was the last major mainstream institution in the US to do so.
In the South at least, Christianity has always been positively correlated with racialism and conservatism. While the Southern churches have adapted to the anti-racism of the dominant American culture, they never spearheaded the shift in racial mores and resisted it through most of the 1970s and 1980s:
Self-Identified Ideology By State (Conservatism)
Mississippi – 53.4%
Alabama – 49.8%
Louisiana – 49.5%
Arkansas – 47.9%
Oklahoma – 47.4%
Tennessee – 45.5%
Texas – 44.8%
West Virginia – 44.6%
South Carolina – 44.6%
Georgia – 43.9%
Missouri – 43.5%
North Carolina – 43.2%
Kentucky – 42.7%
Virginia – 41.3%
Florida – 39.9%
Religiosity By State
Mississippi – 59% (very religious), 11% (non-religious)
Alabama – 56% (very religious), 16% (non-religious)
Louisiana – 54% (very religious), 16% (non-religious)
Arkansas – 54% (very religious), 19% (non-religious)
South Carolina – 54% (very religious), 18% (non-religious)
Tennessee – 52% (very religious), 18% (non-religious)
North Carolina – 50% (very religious), 21% (non-religious)
Georgia – 48% (very religious), 20% (non-religious)
Oklahoma – 48% (very religious), 23% (non-religious)
Texas – 47% (very religious), 22% (non-religious)
Kentucky – 47% (very religious), 24% (non-religious)
Missouri – 44% (very religious), 28% (non-religious)
West Virginia – 43% (very religious), 26% (non-religious)
Virginia – 42% (very religious), 27% (non-religious)
Florida – 39% (very religious), 31% (non-religious)
In the United States, Mississippi (59%) is the most religious state, whereas Vermont (23%) is the least religious state in the Union. Mississippi (53.4%) is also the most conservative state while Massachusetts (30.3%) is the most liberal state.
In the 2012 election, Barack Obama was only able to win the White vote in the Northeast and Northwest (and Iowa), which are least religious and most liberal regions in the United States. The CNN exit polls show that Obama won 70 percent of the non-religious vote. Mitt Romney won 69% of White Protestants and 59% of White Catholics, but Obama won 63% of non-religious Whites.
In Virginia, Mitt Romney won 72% of White Protestants and 65% of White Catholics. Obama won an incredible 76% of non-religious voters. In Ohio, Mitt Romney won 61% of White Protestants and 56% of White Catholics. Obama won 62% of non-religious Whites. In Florida, Mitt Romney won 72% of White Protestants and 62% of White Catholics. Obama won 61% of non-religious Whites.
In the North and South, non-religious Whites are invariably more liberal than religious Whites. They are solid Democratic voters. There are relatively more religious voters in the Deep South and non-religious voters in the Northeast and Northwest, which are more like Canada and Western Europe, which are even more liberal and less religious than the United States.
In the United States in 2013, Christianity has been reduced to a despised embattled subculture, and it has already been routed in much of Western Europe. The dominant secular culture in the United States – the news media, entertainment media, academia, the film industry, let’s not forget The Passion of the Christ – is firmly controlled by secular Jews and their anti-Christian White liberal allies.
When Pope Francis says that he refuses to judge homosexuals and that atheists who do good works are redeemed by Jesus or Pope Benedict XVI gives an address to the U.N. about human rights, these are only illustrations that Enlightenment liberalism has become the dominant culture of the West, and Christianity has become a subculture that is accommodating it.
We live in an era of dying churches when the Lutherans condemn Martin Luther for anti-Semitism and elect openly gay bishops and the Archbishop of Canterbury believes that England needs Sharia law and the Southern Baptist Convention is condemning racism, electing its first black president, and considering dropping the “Southern” part from its own name.
Christianity is on the wane in the modern West. By almost any standard of measure, its decline hasn’t worked to our advantage.
Dalton: when exactly did Christianity ever save Western civilization? It did nearly it apart several times.
Bishop Seraphim turns against Golden Dawn
That’s too bad. I wonder if Golden Dawn’s pagan sympathies will bring in more members than having a sympathetic bishop would. I doubt it.
If Southern Nationalism ever gets off the ground, you bet the top Christian leaders in the South will be first in line to denounce.
That is probably true, but Southern nationalism will never get off the ground with an anti-Christian attitude. Religion in Dixie is so splintered and de-centralised that it would be better to oppose specific denominations and individual churches rather than the religion itself. Conversely, promoting specific denominations and individual churches that are not in conflict with Southern nationalism is also a good idea.
Southern church attendance is more than double that of Greece. Embracing paganism is simply not an option for success here.
Dalton: when exactly did Christianity ever save Western civilization?
Ever heard of the Battle of Tours?
http://i.imgur.com/ASfbJ.jpg
Sorry. That should be “tear it apart”.
I mean no criticism of Christianity, on the contrary, I believe it is impossible to preserve Southern culture without preserving Christianity as well. That said, nearly every Western festival, tradition or holiday can be traced to pre-Christian times.
And the religion of the West since the Enlightenment has been deist humanism, sad to say.
Does anyone know what the religious composition of the Confederacy was? I’m assuming it was mostly Protestant, perhaps by a long shot. Does anyone know the actual breakdown of denominations? I’ve tried to find this info and come up short.
Why, yes, LLD, I have. Do you know what the church leadership did to Charles the Hammer after his victory?
But now, LLD, shall we discuss the DESTRUCTION Christianity is wrought upon the nations of the West? Where shall we begin?
The long thread of history will show that Christianity has been a net loss for the Wesrtern peoples, as Islam has been a net loss for the Arab peoples.
And let’s not forget who the Christian fanatics were during the War Between the States. They were “dying to make men free” like Jesus ” died to make them holy”.
Lew
I can understand the attitude of Russian nationalists who think Putin is weak tea, however what Russia and the rest of the world needs is a grand chess master who can keep the Zio-wolves at bay while Russia rebuilds her strength. Going out on a limb I’ll predict that by 2025 Russia will be strong enough to hand the country over to a more hardcore ethnic nationalist type this will also be the same general time period that the US will lose it’s superpower status.
I wonder if Golden Dawn’s pagan sympathies will bring in more members than having a sympathetic bishop would. I doubt it.
The counter-point is that Greece has an explicitly Orthodox nationalist party. It has a poor record and has never gone anywhere. They have used the few seats they have won in coalition with Greece’s mainstream parties. Essentially, we have a real-world experiment in progress: Orthodox nationalism versus non-Christian. The non-Christian version seems to be winning. So we don’t have speculate about outcomes. One side is clearly doing better.
I think GD is right to be indifferent to anyone who wrings his hands over GD having a pagan element when SURVIVAL is on the line. There is something wrong with that Bishop’s judgment. His statements show that WNst concerns about Christianity are legitimate. Even in the healthiest sectors of Christianity, the leaders just don’t seem to have it in them to unequivocally back racial/ethnic nationalism.
Going out on a limb I’ll predict that by 2025 Russia will be strong enough to hand the country over to a more hardcore ethnic nationalist type this will also be the same general time period that the US will lose it’s superpower status.
Russia was on the brink of a nationalist revolution in the late 1990s when Putin came to power. He restored infrastructure, improved the economy, and increased respect for the government. In short, he took the wind out of the sails of the nationalists.
But now, LLD, shall we discuss the DESTRUCTION Christianity is wrought upon the nations of the West? Where shall we begin?
Have at it. I have never denied that Christianity has spawned harmful movements. The acknowledgement of that makes your suggestion that Christianity has never done anything good any less false.
Even in the healthiest sectors of Christianity, the leaders just don’t seem to have it in them to unequivocally back racial/ethnic nationalism.
Things are different in Europe; paganism is far more acceptable there than here. Even still, Golden Dawn has associated itself with Orthodoxy and I doubt that all of it is just for show.
Being a Southron, you should know that we will make no progress if we present a message of hostility towards Christianity. Christianity is not going away anytime soon in Dixie. We might as well steer it in a better direction in whatever way we can. Whether we will ever be able to count on radical Christian clergy when the time comes to assert our independence and whether Christianity can or should sustain our people in the very distant future is another story.
Does anyone know what the religious composition of the Confederacy was? I’m assuming it was mostly Protestant, perhaps by a long shot. Does anyone know the actual breakdown of denominations? I’ve tried to find this info and come up short.
I have wondered the same but have been unable to find any specifics.
The three most common denominations based on the limited information I have found appear to have been Episcopalism, Presbyterianism, and Roman Catholicism.
The only specific numbers I have found are for the Southern Baptists. According to Wikipedia there were 650,000 of them in 1860.
There is so much good discussion going on here, but with incorrect assumptions, false conclusions, and lack of real knowledge.
First off- the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece is JUST AS LIBERAL, JUST AS PHONEY, as the NCC/WCC ‘big four’ in the USA. (the Episcopal Church- TEC; the Presbyterian Church in America- PCUSA, the United Methodist Church – UMC, and the ‘Evangelical’ Lutheran Church in America- ELCA) The sickness that is a state church, that has ‘sold her soul to Belial’ some decades ago… and is only good for ‘dead men’s bones.’
There is a large (but fractious) group of ‘Traditionalist’ Orthodox, fighting for their very lives, who (more likely than not) are tacitly on the side of Golden Dawn, but we can’t tell that, officially. They don’t have the government tax monopoly given to the State Chruch, they are having their monasteries on Mt. Athos, their small churches burned to the ground, their congregations being turned out- by the Thug POLICE, funded by the “State Church” and the ‘NWO Government,’ so we can’t tell where their affinities with Golden Dawn are located.
But just because (for example) Episcopal Bishopess Jefferts-Schori is for gay marriage, and thinks Obama is Christ incarnate, doesn’t mean that the CHURCH believes same- you see where I am going with this? SO, too false flag ‘Bishops’ such as those two named above. The State Church of Greece is a WHORE, and has been rife with pimps such as these men, for decades. The new calendar/old calendar controversy is the defining line/mark of Orthodoxy for TRUE E.O’s, so don’t give the Pimps of the Leftist PASOK government (who are merely in the Rothschild’s back pocket) any credence as Bishops, let alone the OTHER Pimps, who are their ‘secular leaders.’
To tackle the other issues now being discussed.
First this: “Europe was once the Christendom before the inauguration of our Judeo-Revolutionary Era commenced with the Reformation (check out the historic role of the rabbis). The Judeo-Revolution could never bring the Judaic world order to power without the help of its Masonry in that overthrow.”
Lynda is correct, but she (like all R.C.’s) doesn’t go back far enough. It was not the Enlightenment that sprang, like Athena from the Head of Zeus (errr, the Pope) but the very philosophical nature of the Papacy as she defined herself in 1100 A.D. that is at the root of all our current malaise- and this philosophy, confusing Empire with Ecumene, occurred almost exactly a ‘generation’ after the Schism over the filioque, between the Orthodox and the Papal West.
Here (for all its faults) is an Orthodox analysis of the ‘Reformed’ theology- a theology that was present, by and large, in all post-bellun Southern Christianity- for up until the rise of the ‘tent meetings’ and the Abolitionists’ Arminianism (Free-will theology) starting with Finney/Oberlin, almost all of the USA was Calvinist, from the Colonies, until about 1880- and note, the author, in his analysis, mentions the filioque right off the bat.
http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/the-heresy-of-calvinism-i/
As Dr. Farrell has said so succinctly (and wryly) said, ‘The filioque is the outward and visible manifestation, of an inward and METAPHYSICAL depravity.”
Now, for the others.
“A Protestant has no obligation to anyone except himself, and his personal relationship with Jesus Christ. No obligation to any preacher, minister, pastor or bishop—none.”- Butz
Earl, there’s your problem in a nutshell. ***This is the heresy of Democracy, run rampant, and applied to the Ecclesiastical sphere.***
It underlies everything that gives halflings like Rangel, Oprah, Sharpton, Jackson, Holder, and above all, Obama his/their spurious “legitimacy.” It’s what’s behind gay marriage, as well. The Fallacy of Equality of Hominids… all in the name of [Protestant] (sic) ‘Christianity.’
WG said it very well: “I’ll be open about this and say that we need to shut down attitudes like this. This is our biggest problem. I think a lot of our people’s blood will be spilled, both among the conservatives and paleocons, and then among the liberals and progressives. In so many cases what is annoying about Christians in the WN/SN movements isn’t their Christianity itself, but the toothless hillbilly way in which they express it, so typical of the charismatics, evangelicals and low church folks. ”
Unless you, yourself, are willing to acknowledge that it is GOD that ‘rises up one man, and puts down another,’ what difference is YOUR perception of your own Equality with your Betters (men with more intellect, grace, power, money, etc.) and the Nigger’s conception of himself as equal to the White Man? Why is it, also, that the greatest Friend to YHWH God was the KING, David? Sure, he started as a shepherd boy, but he ended as the Icon King of the King of Creation, Jesus Christ! Monarchy is suffused throughout the Bible. How can a Baptist, or a Presbyterian, or ANY Protestant say the Lord’s Prayer, and not choke on ‘thy KINGDOM come’ !?
This is why I am, more or less, a tacit Monarchist- or at least an Autocracy advocate. I no more can believe some of the posters on this forum are my equal, than I can believe the late (and not lamented) Trayvon Martin was. What was that saying, I first read here? “I am an aristocrat. I love liberty; I hate equality.” John Randolph
It was that sentiment that finally put all of this ‘equality’ BS in place for me- even just a half year ago- just as it was the quote I often repeat of St. Theodosius, that helped me see that ‘loving my enemy’ is not biblical; at least in the way liberals, and Leftist Marxists masquerading as Christians, want me to think of it. That other quote is: “Live in peace with your enemeis, but only your PERSONAL enemies, and NOT the ENEMIES OF GOD.” I think most of OD’s readers know, I believe ALL non-Whites to be the ‘enemies of God,’ as God is a RACIAL DEITY, who determined the Ethnos of his Supreme Creation, and made it the ‘image and likeness’ that His own SON would incarnate, two thousand years ago. If that’s NOT ‘racial identification,’ I don’t know what is! But I do know that modern ‘Evanjellygoo’ Xtianity, or ‘I can’t judge a gay’ Papal Romanism, or Fag Bishop Robinson Episcopalianism…. IS NOT!
Nowadays, I understand Dabney, and Randolph, etc., as my ideological brethren far more clearly than I did, when I read ‘Defense of the South’ thirty years ago- It’s now worked its way down to the chromosomal level- it’s my BLOOD, my ETHNICITY that I now see as God’s ultimate Election.
I have finally learned that, at the very least, a Nigger is ontologically inferior to a White Man. I’ve learned that much from history, HW’s site, books like Coon’s, Avdeyev’s, Rushton’s, etc. – as well as the Bible, the Fathers, and NOT from Popes, or Liberal Churchmen.
But the light started among those Christian writers that first pointed out the racial character of Covenantal, Christendom-established Christianity. And which is confirmed in my soul, as much as it is in my own body, by the Incarnational Savior, who is both my King, and my Brother.
That is why ANY nascent Southern/White movement, MUST have Christianity at its base. Golden Dawn knows that; the South knew that; hell, even wack job John de Nugent knows that- but he (like Hitler) will not succeed with his vision, for you cannot co-opt Christianity to your perversions- whether neo-pagan, or neo-con, and not come up against the ‘rock that the builders rejected.’ For Christ MUST be the cornerstone, and nothing else.
Fr John,
Thanks for your comments. Do you have any insight into the Popular Orthodox Rally party in Greece? They have a good platform. It looks like a type third position approach. The problem is they don’t seem to winning as much as Golden Dawn even though conditions in Greece should be favorable to parties with a nationalist approach. Golden Dawn is more radical.
the demarcation of the political world into the Right Wing and the Left Wing is no longer relevant after the end of the Cold War. Nowadays, everyone in every aspect of his or her everyday life is either in favour or against Globalization
– No accession of Turkey to the European Union
– Ban immigration from outside the European Union and deport all illegal immigrants.
– Opposition to the European Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty
– A strict stance in the Macedonia naming dispute; no recognition of the Republic of Macedonia under any name that includes the term “Macedonia.”
– Drastic tax cuts for both individuals and small businesses.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Orthodox_Rally
Being a Southron, you should know that we will make no progress if we present a message of hostility towards Christianity. Christianity is not going away anytime soon in Dixie.
Sure. I agree with this too. Aggressive Anti-Christianity is not desirable. Thes are complex issues. I think your idea of secessionists opposing specific denominations and leaders while trying trying acquire support from friendly ones is an idea with potential.
Fr John: That is a great post. I’m currently reading “Commentaries on the Laws of England” by Sir William Blackstone. He makes the case that hierarchy is necessary for order and peace in society. Their heirarchy was based on birth, something readily identifiable and acceptable to the least common denominator. The Enlightenment destroyed most of this common sense.
The Enlightenment has been tried–it’s fully ripened fruit is Communism. Constitutions are pieces of paper and cannot be the basis of any society. Custom, manners and traditions are the real constitution of any people. Most Enlightenment trash needs to be tossed overboard to save our sinking ship.
Regarding Southern Nationalism, one of the most destructive habits that the Commies conned us into was apologizing for our ancestors. Never ever stop respecting your ancestors. To do so is the beginning of disrespecting your posterity.
@M.W. The Southern States were 98 % Protestant, maybe a generous 2% Catholics, Jews etc.
The major Protestant churches in the South were the Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, & Episcopalian. But, there were more than one type of these churches, for example the two Southern Methodist churches, the Methodist Episcopal Church South, and the Methodist Protestant Church. There were numerous types of Baptists, and Presbyterians too. Even the Episcopal churches which were mostly in the costal areas had different types of governance.
Right, Padre John. That’s why we are called Protestants—we “protest” the Catholic way of doing things. #LOL.
I am starting to notice that some of the new younger WN leader types coming on the scene are rejecting the idea that we need to “destroy” Christianity – the guys over at the DailyStormer being an example. – Ulfric
I never heard of it until you mentioned it. At a glance, I like it! The Daily Stormer has the right attitude. Who is Andrew Anglin? Never heard of him. Clement Pulaski is good too.
@M.W. The Southern States were 98 % Protestant, maybe a generous 2% Catholics, Jews etc.
I am very skeptical of that considering Louisiana and Maryland. Do you have a source?
The major Protestant churches in the South were the Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, & Episcopalian.
I wouldn’t classify the Baptists as a major church until after the War.
Episcopalism was easily the leading church in the antebellum South even if it was not an outright majority (I don’t know if it was or not).
“The new calendar/old calendar controversy is the defining line/mark of Orthodoxy”
Good comment, Fr John. A defining mark of true conservatism, and of opposition to the Roman tyranny. Did you know some independent “Protestants” in Appalachia followed the Old Calendar well into the early twentieth century? What do you think of the Old Believers? I posted several comments and links about “Old Believer” Russian ethnic Christianity, here, in the last several days. I appreciate and have some things in common with them, although I don’t share in their heritage.
Re: monarchism: I have the opposite view, as a proponent of ethnic Christian, written-constitutional, democratic-republican, mixed polity (not genetically or culturally “mixed” of course, but limited, with many layers of competing checks and balances). Whereas you cite the praises of the young David, I cite Samuel, and the other prophets, who denounced the predominantly evil kings (including David and Solomon) who corrupted and destroyed the people. But the important thing is that the people must be good themselves, and a good people will do well with and work to improve an imperfect government.
In reading some of my earlier posts, I realized I had quoted the ’14 words’ and thought it germane to include it in this post’s comments, for lack of a better place.
http://thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/all-other-ground-is-sinking-sand-6/
In answer to some of the observations of my earlier posts, here are my responses.
1) No, I don’t know of the other parties in Greece. Like they say, ‘It’s all Greek to me!”
2) Yes, one of the strongest arguments for my adopting an ‘old-calendar’ friendly approach to the Orthodox, was that I read Washington, himself, observed his birthday according to the Julian Calendar until his dying day. I had also heard that observation about the ‘old calendarists’ in Appalachia.
Hunter- Here (at last) is a kinist, and HONEST JEW APPRAISAL of the modern ‘problem’ from a trad. Christian/Protestant P.O.V.
I think this may help your thought processes on this post.
http://faithandheritage.com/2013/08/christianity-as-a-necessary-foundation-for-white-nationalism-part-4-anti-judaism/
(read Parts 1,2,and 3 also, of course!)
For the Kingdom.
“Here (at last) is a kinist, and HONEST JEW APPRAISAL of the modern ‘problem’ from a trad. Christian/Protestant P.O.V.”
A-historical superstitious bilge.
It’s good that the pope doesn’t judge them because it makes it easier for them to come to Jesus
Outstanding new post in TradYouth: http://www.tradyouth.org/2014/01/the-power-of-baptism/#more-5670
Hunter, this article appears under ‘Religion’ on the topic list, so I assume it is safe to place the comment here.
Christians worship the same false god Jews do, Yahweh. He is an evil false god that hates humanity, which I explain in detail on my site. Christianity is a huge reason we are in the predicament we are.