Tennessee
We went back to the bar from last year … no sign of anti-fa though.
Note: A special shoutout to Spelunkstein below.
Amren: After Hours
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‘I do not pass judgment’:
But if you’re REALLY a good, consistent, traditional pre-Vat II Roman Catholic, you MUST pass judgment on my ‘heretical’ condition, for not having ‘accepted Christ WITH the Vicar of Christ’ — and especially for having protested his supposed universal authority over all churches. Hence, all of our triple immersions in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, like those of conservative southern Baptists, and the eastern Orthodox churches are all invalid and ineffectual. Since we have not REALLY been baptised, we necessarily are lost, especially qua pre-Vat II RC.
‘For all I know Mosin, you might be a member of that mystical body without full knowledge’:
I’m NOT a member of the mystical body of Antichrist or Babylon. Now you KNOW.
“Rudel, check Sailer. I think he figured it out.”
Listening to the tapes it is clear that Sterling is getting senile. He stands to make hundreds of millions of dollars if he sells the team. He should consider this a blessing in disguise.
Mosin, you’re insisting on things that are not there. The RCC does except the baptisms of Non-Catholics who were baptized with the Trinitarian formula. It is your Anabaptists and some other sectarian groups that don’t except baptisms done outside their groups. The Creeds all say ‘one baptism for the remission of sins’. As long as the baptism is done in the name of the Holy Trinity, it’s excepted, no matter who does it. BTW, I think I’ll end this thread here, because I wish to concentrate on racial matters rather than argue with an obsessed sectarian.
“Since we have not REALLY been baptised, we necessarily are lost, especially qua pre-Vat II RC.”
You don’t know WTF you are talking about. Both the Lutherans, Anglicans, and Orthodox churches consider the Apostolic Succession to still be in effect and recognize RC infant baptisms as legitimate and vice versa. Lutherans do not even allow a second adult baptism to be performed for anyone including Roman Catholics who convert. Catholics recognize Lutheran, Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, and Eastern Orthodox baptisms but not Mormon or Jehovah’s Witnesses baptisms. The Russian Orthodox Church has always recognized RC baptisms and despite some Fr. John like bickering over the years Greek Orthodox do also.
As for heretical Anabaptist influenced sects like yours Mosin, I couldn’t really say what a legitimate church would make of it.
BTW all this mutual baptism recognition predates Vatican II by centuries so you doubly don’t know what you are talking about Mosin.
Dalton knows, and certainly ‘Lynda’ knows, but you, Rudel, do not know what this exchange is about. It has nothing to do with the common practice of not repeating baptisms when receiving converts and consecrating marriages involving members of other denominations. Here’s a place to start learning: http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m013rpProtestantsChristians.html Then go to the original sources. Dalton (who has ended the thread but will return to fight another day) is pleased with the Crusades that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of White Christian ‘heretics’ who had been duly baptised with the Trinitarian formula but would not acknowledge ‘the Chair of Peter’.
I invested solid resources on the very successful LOS immigration protests against Tyson Foods in middle TN, my investments included full page Newspaper advertisement in Sympathetic Conservative County newspaper and full sized highway .
These LOS protest were well organized, disciplined , people were appropriately dressed.
That’s not the same as a couple of people getting in to a car and getting in to shouting matches, scuffles with Antifa loons that regular a White a Americans don’t go for anyway.
Should have read full sized highway billboard adverts.
Rudel, even though we have had disputes in the past (and will probably have them in the future!) I commend you for speaking the truth. I’m a former Lutheran myself, so I knew what the my synod taught about baptism from other Christian churches being valid if they used the Trinitarian formula. The only prior baptisms that were rejected were those of the Mormons and the JW’s since both sects rejected the Trinity. The only reasons a Lutheran minister or a Catholic priest would baptize an adult are, to the best of my knowledge, are, the person was never baptized because he was never a Christian to begin with, he has come from a Non-Trinitarian sect like the Mormons or the JW’s, or he’s a Christian, but either never was or doesn’t remember being baptized because it might have happened very early in life. I don’t know about the Lutherans, but an RC priest will perform a conditional baptism to cover the bases.
I think if Mosin’s sect used a Trinitarian baptismal formula, your hypothetical legitimate church would except it.
“you, Rudel, do not know what this exchange is about. It has nothing to do with the common practice of not repeating baptisms when receiving converts and consecrating marriages involving members of other denominations.”
ORLY? Then what exactly did you mean when you wrote this absolute bilge in your last post?
“Hence, all of our triple immersions in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, like those of conservative southern Baptists, and the eastern Orthodox churches are all invalid and ineffectual. Since we have not REALLY been baptised, we necessarily are lost, especially qua pre-Vat II RC.”
This is a lie on all counts and your response is what? Pretend you didn’t just say it? You are a Anabaptist troll and probably not even a Christian.
Stephen E Dalton says:
‘ The Creeds all say ‘one baptism for the remission of sins’. As long as the baptism is done in the name of the Holy Trinity, it’s excepted, no matter who does it. ‘
The subject of baptism once again illustrates how silly many cherished beliefs or traditions are.
The word baptism is a derived from the New Testament Greek word- baptizo. The meaning is to immerse, dunk, submerge in water. Jesus was baptized (fully immersed) in the Jordan river by John, supposedly, as were John’s followers.
MATTHEW 3:16 ‘ After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him.’
Sprinkling or pouring water on heads is something that developed long after the Apostles were dead.
Also, babies were not baptized in the early church. Adults only, who could make a confession of faith, repent of sins etc.
How stupid to believe an innocent infant would need to be baptized for the remission of sins or spend eternity in Hell, Limbo, Purgatory or anywhere else outside of God’s grace, if you will.
Acts 2;38 uses a different formula. It was to be done in the name of Jesus according to Peter.
‘Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins’
These are just a few of the discrepancies and controversies concerning the subject over the centuries.
People have been slaughtered over these disputes.
“These are just a few of the discrepancies and controversies concerning the subject over the centuries.”
The mainline Christian religions seem all to have settled on the necessity of affirming the Trinity during baptism however.
Sam, I’d suggest you do a study of the history of baptism. If you do, you will discover that the early church administered baptism by pouring, sprinkling, and immersion for both infants and adults. The Didache, one of the earliest record we have from the patristic writings, mentions all of them as legitimate forms of baptism.
Babies, according to all Western and Eastern patristic writers are born with original sin, and need to be baptized for the remission of them. Of course, adult were baptized, but so were infants. BTW, circumcision was done on infant too, even though they lacked understanding at eight days of age.
“I think if Mosin’s sect used a Trinitarian baptismal formula, your hypothetical legitimate church would except it.”
There is only one Christian Church and as far as I’m concerned there are only two doctrinal disputes of any import that keep it divided.
The first serious disagreement is whether or not man is saved by God’s Grace alone. The second is the Orthodox exception to the Western Christian inclusion of the filioque wording in the Nicene Creed.
All the other arguments are just so much hoohah mostly brought about by Catholic rules made up out of whole cloth and their rituals (still to be seen to some varying extent or another in most mainline Protestant services), Eastern icons, and argumentative Calvinist pig-headedness about the various unsolvable ramifications of the contradiction inherent in pre-destination. In my view these secondary disputes are not important enough questions that they should keep Christians out of communion with one another.
It’s all sort of moot now anyway. There are few believers left since Darwin and science in general blew the Book of Genesis out of the water and Nietzsche was rude enough to see this and declare that God is dead.
Stephen E Dalton says:
‘Babies, according to all Western and Eastern patristic writers are born with original sin, and need to be baptized for the remission of them.’
I could not care LESS what bozos have to say on the subject of babies, judgment and sin.
Stephen E Dalton says: ‘BTW, circumcision was done on infant too, even though they lacked understanding at eight days of age.’
Yet another hideous, barbaric religious practice supposedly sanctioned by the psycho God of the jews and his deranged people.
Genesis really went downhill after Phil Collins took over.
Rudel, you don’t always read well. Note that my ‘false’ statement about baptism begins with the word ‘HENCE’ — which is there for a reason. It indicates that BECAUSE we do not recognise the Chair of Peter, our otherwise orthodox baptism is therefore worthless because we are not saved, according to the stated principles, if not the practice, of the RC.
Ignore the false ecumenical camaraderie and think about what the Popes said when they spoke infallibly. You may look down on the ‘low churches’ all you want, and call them ‘illegitimate’, but your own ‘high’ Protestantism (but why do you call yourself a Protestant when you are an unbeliever?) is just as illegitimate in the view of ‘Peter’ as we are!
Sam wrote: ‘People have been slaughtered over these disputes’. White people, and I hope that predominantly ‘low church’ White Southrons will recognise the possibility it could happen again, to them, someday — and looking back to the seventeenth century, realise that the control of their land hung in the balance then, and could easily have become permanently Latin instead of English, but for the grace of God.
“Here’s a place to start learning:”
That site is total BS and only includes the hysterical statements of Popes from 1875 until 1962 after publication of The Origin of Species. None of these doctrines including that of so-called papal infallibility existed prior to this time.
I don’t even care. The ten commandments (except the first one) hold some wisdom I suppose and while a proscription against stealing seems like a good idea I’m a little put off by the proscription against thought crimes like coveting. Who even needs Jewish monotheism to begin with? I often find the stories of the gods in other religious traditions much more charming and or exciting anyhow. There is a lot more blind chance and fate tied up with reality than the Judeo-Christian tradition allows for. And look where it led to: goddam fucking Islam and women and children with vests made of dynamite.
Rudel, don’t you see the contradiction of the plain teaching of the pre- Vat II Popes that ONLY RC are real Christians, and the ecumenical acceptance non-RC baptism? If our baptism were REALLY effectual then we would be saved outside of the RC but they deny that is really possible. Hence the word ‘hence’. Do you comprehend now?
“why do you call yourself a Protestant”
I don’t. I don’t even call myself an apostate since I don’t think I ever believed any of it in the first place after I started thinking for myself around the age of eight. The only time I ever go to church is for weddings, funerals, and traditional music, and I don’t mean dippy hymns either. High Anglicans are the only folks with any decent church music nowadays with some rare exceptions among Lutherans and Catholics who seem to have thrown out most of their good stuff.
“don’t you see the contradiction”
How about the Trinity when it comes to contradictions. It doesn’t make any sense. It never has made any sense. There isn’t any reason for it either. It’s gibberish.
I heard stories from old timers years ago who remember actual fighting in some of the coal region towns in Pennsylvania between Roman Catholics and Protestants, and the pre-Vat II priests in those towns, who took their doctrine seriously and wouldn’t set foot in a non-RC home or church, were involved in supporting the conflict.
“Genesis really went downhill after Phil Collins took over.”
Christmas carols took a turn for the worse when the Presbyterians threw out God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen a few years back because it was sexist!
How CAN you enjoy hymns, Rudel, if you don’t believe the message? I only like music with words I like. The message is all-important, and the tune is accompaniment for the message. I’ve always been this way. I took a different course than you with ‘devouring’ the Bible in youth, and loved science and history and found RIGHT interpretation of the Bible is not incongruent with physical reality — except for the few ESSENTIAL miracles (I don’t look for miracles everywhere) that remain a matter of faith — but God reveals His presence and will to us as we believe and obey.
I am thankful every day that Hunter is so gracious to allow us to digress on religion so often. No one can say now that Occidental Dissent is a ‘managed, controlled discussion forum’. But I hope Dalton will soon tire of ‘kicking against the pricks’ and give in to the truth, or at least call a truce.
Lew says:
‘OT, but I assume everyone here has heard about that jew Donald Sterling by now. He owns the LA Clippers basketball team. Sterling is in trouble for making comments about blacks. Spread the word that Sterling is a Jew. Best part is, he was caught on tape saying Israel treats “black jews” like shit. lol.’
Yes, he did spill the beans about blacks in Israel.
He’ll catch hell from his beanie brothers for exposing them.
He really was not critical of Aids Johnson and said he was admirable. He’ll get no credit for that even though he is a slippery jew.
Never called anyone a nigger or used slurs.
Simply did not want his shiksa hanging around with and taking pictures of herself with blacks and showing them to the world.
Probably assumed she would offer her services to them and eventually infect him with diseases.
So, now we’ve come to the point where someone saying in a PRIVATE conversation that he does not want certain minorities in his presence for whatever reasons can be forced to sell his business/team and be suspended forever?
This is ridiculous. Think of the implications.
Why is this standard not applied to rappers, hip-hoppers and niggers like Spike Lee who said recently he did not want YT moving into his neighborhood?
I’m waiting for the respectable conservatives to begin clamoring about first amendment rights and freedom of speech.
Ain’t gonna happen. They couldn’t take the heat. Can’t be accused of being racist.
I heard Limbaugh this afternoon. Danced around the subject like the phoney he is.
Mosin, interesting point about taking seriously the messages in songs. When I’m out in the streets I often hear people singing along with their IPods and it seems like they really have no idea what they are singing. Sometime I ask them about the lyrics to the song and what they think about it, and they have no idea what I’m talking about because they haven’t even thought about them. It’s especially funny in an absurd way when they are reciting rap lyrics about “da club” etc. People of all races do this by the way. However, I do like some songs with messages I disagree with, like some Confederate hymns for example; and also some music from non-Christian religions.
By the way I had taken a break from posting on this site, but with more anti-racists posting here I thought I’d join back in.
Mosin, you hope that I will get tired of “kicking against the pricks”. Well as long as you are here spreading your gnostic tomfoolery, I’ll be here!
Sam: good observations.
I read Sterling paid a few million for the team in the 80s. It’s now worth over a billion.
Lew says:
‘I read Sterling paid a few million for the team in the 80s. It’s now worth over a billion.’
Herb (jew) Kohl sold the Milwaukee Bucks last week for approx. 550 million. He paid 18 mil. for the team in the eighties.
Not a bad return on investment.
According to the Sailer article from your link, Irvin Johnson and jew crook Milliken wanted to buy Sterling’s team.
Interesting.
‘spreading your gnostic tomfoolery’:
Sorry, you’re losing your skill and missed the target completely this time. We’re not gnostic at all. But if you really want to be a good RC, you should love and be steeping in the ‘mysteries’, or ‘Mystagogy’. That’s when you learn what RC REALLY believe….
“I only like music with words I like.”
Then you won’t like this! LOL
It doesn’t make any sense. It never has made any sense. There isn’t any reason for it either.
There is a reason for it. It contributes to the grand ‘mystery’ of life that believers usually consider so important.
Rudel, we have a well-worn vinyl record here of Welsh singer Richard Lewis singing arias from Handel’s Biblical and historical oratorios, including this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c6rVxF99u4 with excellent diction. Every word is clear. But I don’t like worldly oratorio performances in fancy settings, even if they are less worldly than regular opera — and Handel is still German, and didn’t have the sense of Celtic or Anglo-Celtic music.
Silver, we shouldn’t imagine or create more mysteries where there are none. Many women (not the wise ones!) and religious charlatans love mysticism and gnosticism.
“Handel is still German, and didn’t have the sense of Celtic or Anglo-Celtic music.”
So what? The King of England was a German too.
If you’re not spreading gnostic tomfoolery, then stop championing all these pilgrim churches like the Cathars, who were gnostics, you historical ignoramus.
More evidence that southerners blame white yankees/northerners for the jews’ hatred of them:
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/04/donald-sterlings-remarks/
Kevin MacDonald links to Steve Sailer’s article on VDare…both men expose how the jews are trying to blame southern whites for Sterling’s rants. I assume many have heard the unedited version of the tape, in which Sterling rants about jewish hatred of blacks.
Stephen E Dalton says:
‘ I’m a former Lutheran myself, so I knew what the my synod taught about baptism from other Christian churches being valid if they used the Trinitarian formula’
Dalton, I think you are a chameleon more than anything.
You claim to be this, that or something else whenever it suits you to gain leverage in any debate.
Jewish, Finnish, Welsh, Scot, English?
Also, you said you currently are Catholic, were a member of Armstrong’s WWCOG and now claim to have been Lutheran.
A poster said you are all things to all people.
I recently searched the internet to research something about the Pope and came across a Catholic message board.
A poster by the name of- Stephen E. Dalton- made several contributions.
I’m assuming it is you.
http://the-american-catholic.com/2011/04/27/father-michael-pfleger-removed-and-suspended/
Stephen E Dalton says:
Monday, May 2, 2011 A.D. at 7:37am
RadCat, I do not live in Chicago. I’m male, but I’m not “white”. I’m a Catholic of multi-racial ancestory, (Jew, Arab, sub-saharan African, Turkish, Scot-Irish, English, Spanish, Portuguse, Italian etc.) who’s ancestors practised Judaism.
Sam, he styles himself the “Scot-Jew’ elsewhere.
Really, gentlemen, really…
It’s not too hard to see that Mr. Dalton is exactly who he purports to be.
He is also an intelligent commentator.
So it don’t make no nevermind.
If you want to play PO-LICE, maybe we should ask for your identification?
It’s a fool’s game. Give it up.
Deo Vindice
Apuleius, thank you for your defense of my person. To those reading Sam and Mosin’s remarks, the vast majority of my paternal DNA is Scot-Irish of Clan U Niall. My Jewish Dalton and Arab Mustain ancestors intermarried with the U Niall clan. I no longer claim Sub-Saharan ancestry because the DNA results were faulty, and with the latest updates no Sub-Saharan DNA is there. I do have some very remote East Asian ancestry, but considering how many times Europe was invaded by Oriental armies, that’s not surprising. On my mother’s side, I’m Saami (That is Lapp) For all practical purposes, Family Tree DNA says I’m 100% European.
As for religion, I went through several religions as a younger man. I was reared in a secular home, without a religious background. Because I was ignorant of the history of religion, when I was younger, I had no way of judging their claims objectively. When I started to seriously study church history two decades ago, I stopped going through religions and settled down. It wasn’t so much a matter of being a chameleon, it was a matter of metamorphosis. And as to the charge I claim to be this or that to gain leverage in a debate, well, if I’m well informed about a certain subject, I’m certainly going to tell the uninformed what I know to educate them. On the flip side, if I think I might have been wrong about something, (like Columbus’s supposed Jewish ancestry) I’ll check it out to see what I could have missed. Some of my fellow commentators, like Mosin and Sam ought to try it, it would lead to a vast improvement in their comments.
‘When I started to seriously study (…) I stopped going through religions and settled down’:
If Whites study seriously at all, we become un-settled from what you settled in.
‘Columbus’s supposed Jewish ancestry’:
That card comes out again. Well, it’s ineffective because I don’t claim it either.
‘I’m certainly going to tell the uninformed what I know to educate them’:
Like ‘Yankees’ are evil, you must never trust Russians, and non-RC who won’t acknowledge the Pope are all dualistic, gnostic heretics. Such wisdom.
‘If you want to play PO-LICE’:
Ap-u-lie-us ‘plays police’ for the ‘southern RC’ side.
Mosin, as usual, you’re the soul of confusion.
I settled down in the Catholic faith because, as Belloc put it, “Europe is the faith, and the faith is Europe”. Your beloved ‘pilgrim churches’ were, as I’ve said so many times before, were dangerous heretics who taught dangerous heresies. Even Lea, who was an Anti-Catholic Inquisition historian, said if the Cathar heresy became dominant in Europe, it would have destroyed society at all levels.
I never said that all Non-RC’s who won’t acknowledge the Pope are dualistic, gnostic heretics. That’s an outright lie on your part. No traditional Protestant Church that I know of believes in that heresy. As a Catholic, I have doctrinal differences with Protestants, but I certainly don’t believe they’re gnostic or dualistic. If they believe in the Trinity, they can be neither.
I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned Columbus’s supposed ancestry. I was talking about my own belief in it, which changed after I did some searching about what his contemporaries and historians claimed for him.
As for the Yankees, their desire to change the world through the various religious and secular reform movements that sprang up in New England have caused nothing but pain and misery for the rest of us. No wonder GK Chesterton, the noted Catholic author said ” The Puritans had a day of Thanksgiving to celebrate their survival in the New World, we should have one to celebrate them leaving England!”
Your darn tootin’ I don’t trust Putin! (Sorry Jack!) The current Russian government is controlled by former KGB agents. It is an intelligence state. They also are building close ties with China, which by nexy year, will probably have the world’s largest economy. Still feel like trusting them, Mosin?
‘Your beloved pilgrim churches were, as I’ve said so many times before, were dangerous heretics who taught dangerous heresies’:
We oppose heretics and heresies and to imply otherwise is an outright lie your part. To imply we’re not Trinitarian is a lie also. ‘Europe is the faith and the faith is Europe’ is one thing, but settling down in Sodom or Babylon, under the rule of Antichrist as you have done is another.
Hereward Saxon, when did I say you were not Trinitarian? Please improve your reading comprehension skills. Anyone else could see I was referring to the heretical groups such as the Cathars. So, unless you’re a Crypto-Cathar, why were you offended?
Your claiming the Pope is the Anti-Christ shows how ignorant you are. Anti-Christ, according to the Bible, means denying Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. The Catholic Church has always taught Jesus was Christ come in the flesh. Our creeds have always taught this great truth, especially the Athanasian Creed, which states if you don’t believe it, you don’t have the Catholic faith, and can’t be saved. I do hope you have that faith HS, for like the Savior, I desire for all men to be saved.
Stephen E Dalton says:
‘I’m male, but I’m not “white”.
When it suits your purposes you are non-white.
Stephen E Dalton says: ‘I no longer claim Sub-Saharan ancestry because the DNA results were faulty, and with the latest updates no Sub-Saharan DNA is there.’
For a large fellow you are quick on your feet, I’ll give you that.
Someone should send that line to Craig Cobb. He might want to use it in the future.
Latest updates? How often do you get tested?
@Sam
Family Tree DNA constantly goes over the data to keep it accurate. BTW, what’s in your data?