Live Thread: Scotland Votes On Independence


Will it be “Yes” or “No”?

Here are the reasons why I hope Scotland votes “Yes” for independence:

1.) First, I support Scotland’s independence for England’s sake. Scotland is a stronghold of the Labour Party and the existence of the Union with Scotland pulls the spectrum of British politics to the Left. Thus, I cheer on Scottish independence for the same reasons that I would heartily support the secession of the Northeast or the West Coast in the United States, and why I think its a good thing that Ireland was cut loose long ago, and why I would oppose the annexation of Canada here.

2.) Second, the loss of Scotland would be a crippling blow to the Labour Party in Britain. The Labour Party has been the driving force in Westminster behind the evils of political correctness, multiculturalism, and Third World immigration. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are two reasons why Scotland should go its own way.

3.) Third, David Frum has explained America’s stake in Scotland’s independence, and he’s right that it would deal a “shattering blow” to the US Empire and its adventures overseas, or as he calls its “Britain’s contribution to global security.” Scotland’s independence will hasten the collapse of the US-dominated international order which has existed since WW2. That’s why Bill Clinton and Obama are publicly opposing it.

4.) Fourth, Scotland’s independence would make it more likely that the rest of Britain will succeed in leaving the European Union. Without Scotland, Euroskepticism, populism, opposition to immigration and multiculturalism and so on will all have a greater voice in Westminster.

5.) Fifth, Scotland’s independence would be a huge boost to parallel secession movements here in the United States in Texas and Dixie, as well as in Europe in places like Flanders, Venice and Catalonia which are supporting on the “Yes” campaign for the same reason. Secession will go from being unthinkable to much more plausible in the United States.

Note: We’re under no illusions that we have much in common with the Scottish Nationalist Party which wants to secede from Britain in order to create a multiracial socialist utopia in Scotland along the lines of present day Sweden. Rather than block their path, the English should help these fools pack their bags. We’re not lucky enough to be bestowed with such a gift here in the United States.

One more thing: in light of what happened to Québec in the 1990s, I can’t get that worked up about referendums for independence, which is why I haven’t written much about it until now. There’s no “Scottish” electorate. The “Scots” really aren’t voting on independence. The current residents of the civic nationalist polity known as “Scotland” are voting for independence which excludes hundreds of thousands of real Scots while including hundreds of thousands of non-Scots.

Liberal democracy reduces nations to individuals which are “equal” and ultimately interchangeable with foreigners. Whatever the result of this referendum, it won’t be a clear snapshot of the national will of the Scottish people. By the end of the night, we should know if “democracy” has blocked the path to Scottish independence.

About Hunter Wallace 12366 Articles
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  1. God still smiled on Great Britain in my Grandmother’s youth (she’s 102 and still living). May Britain’s patron angel be with her during this time of feebleness and humiliation.

    Woe to the proud Crown of drunken Ephraim!
    And the beautiful bloom of its withering flowers,
    On the Head of the rich Valley sleeping in Wine!
    See that bold and strong Master, like fierce cutting hailstorm,
    Like whirling seas, flings by his hand to the ground:—
    With his feet he will trample that crown of the pride
    Of Drunken Ephraim!
    And the fading flower crown, on the rich Valley’s Head,
    Like the early ripe figs that a gazer beholds,
    Shall fall ere they come to his hand.

    Isaiah, 28:1-4

  2. I can’t root for the end of GREAT BRITAIN. Ironically , it may be the English who gain the most from Scottish independence by getting rid of all those Labour and Scottish Nasty Party MPs.

  3. Re “As you might expect, we’re pulling for DISUNION!”:

    Why would I expect you’d be in favour of “disunion”?

    What’s on offer is not independence.

    If dissolution leads to a worse standard of living for Scots, then the idea of “independence” will seem tarnished.

    Why would you disregard the views of Scots who support Union?

    The situations of Scotland and “Dixie” are so far apart, so dissimilar, that I can’t fathom what the fate of one could possibly have to do with the fate of the other.

    Do you also support the “disunion” of Orcadians and Shetlanders from their domination by Scots, under whom they were forced into subjugation, and with whom they overwhelmingly have no desire of entering into fake “independence”. (The Northern Isles rejected Scottish devolution by 3:1, fearing Scottish designs on their oil and gas and fishing resources. If Scots vote to quit the UK, and the Northern Isles reject disunion, we can expect them to have a referendum on splitting from Scotland, taking a very large share of so-called “Scottish” resources with them.)

    Do you support the fact that about 1,000,000 Scots (800,000 in the UK alone) (and any Scots in the British Army or Crown Service stationed outside of Scotland and therefore registered as resident outside of Scotland) have been denied the right to vote, but about 424,000 of the following people have the right to vote for so-called “Scottish Independence”? Anyone over the age of 15 who is legally resident in Scotland and who is a citizen Anguilla, The Ascensionian Islands, Australia, Austria, Antigua and Barbuda, The Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Bermuda, Botswana, The British Indian Ocean Territories, The British Virgin Islands, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada, The Cayman Islands, Croatia, Cyprus, The Czech Republic, Denmark (excluding Faroese and Greenlanders), Dominica, Estonia, The Falkland Islands, Fiji, Finland (excluding residents of The Saimaa Canal), France (including French Polynesians, French Guianans, Guadeloupeans, Martiniquians, Mayotteans, Nouvelle Caledonians, Saint-Martineans, Saint-Pierre and Miqueloneans, Réunioneans, and Wallis and Futunaeans; but excluding Saint Barthélemois), Germany (including Büsingenians and Helgolanders), Ghana, Gibraltar, Greece, Grenada, Guernsey, Guyana, Hungary. India, The Republic of Ireland, Italy (including Campionesi and Livignaschi), Jamaica, Jersey, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malaysia, The Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Montserrat, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, The Netherlands (including Arubans, Bonaireans, Curaçaoans, Sabans, Sint Eustatiusians and Sint Maarteneans), New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, The Pitcairn Islands, Poland, Portugal (including Azorians and Madeirans), Romania, Rwanda, Saint Helena, Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saibt Tristan, Saint Vincent and The Grenadines, Samoa, The Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, The Solomon Islands, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Spain (including Canary Islanders, Ceutans and Melillans), Swaziland, Sweden (including Ålanders), Tonga, Tuvalu, Trinidad and Tobago, Uganda, The Turks and Caicos Islands, The United Republic of Tanzania, Vanuatu, or Zambia.

  4. I see from another comment you made that you actually favour Scottish so-called “independence” because you “I support Scotland’s (and Ireland’s) independence for England’s sake.”

    Yes, it is true that England would be well-rid of Scotland. (Though your comment about Ireland is bizarre.)

    Still, the “independence” vote is a scam, and I find the whole matter offensive.

    I hope you’re aware that whatever the result of the referendum today (and I predict a “NO” vote), Scotland will still be part of the UK. It’s just an opinion poll. Even if it gets approval (which I doubt will happen), tat would just be the first step. Then the Hollyrood government would have to formulate a declaration of independence that would be approved by Scots and acceptable to the UK. There will be no unilateral declaration. The extent of the ties between Scotland and the rest of the UK are far too extensive to make any UDI work, and any attempt an un-negotiated separation would be an economic and political disaster.

  5. Read this online:

    “I have 100% Scots Heritage and to be frank, the best news would be for Scotland to become Independent. The Scots in Scotland are in the majority a bunch of whining, self absorbed, groaning dreamers. For years, Scots in Scotland have enjoyed benefits in excess of the English and Welsh. They have sway in Westminster but have independence of thoughts and action in Scotland. Balanced? I think not. Let them go. They destroyed the world’s largest shipbuilding industry, eradicated almost all manufacturing in Scotland, exported a bunch of Trade Unionists who were bent on nothing more than destruction and have maintained the Labour Party in power in Westminster through gross over-representation per capita for all but probably 1 parliament. Go forth and multiply, or not. Go whinge and keep it north of the border!!”

  6. Trygve Skomedal:

    “De skotske jarlene var harde og uforsonlige herrer. I motsetning til de friere forholdene under danskestyret på Færøyene og Island, fikk ikke bøndene beholde like stor råderett over egen jord. Skottene klarte i løpet av en 200-årsperiode å fjerne øyboernes norske identitetsfølelse og stolthet. Det fortelles at godseierne var så ivrige etter å utrydde alt norsk at de på 1700-tallet faktisk betalte bøndene for å snakke skotsk.”

    [The Scottish earls were harsh and unforgiving masters [over the Orcadians and Shetlanders], unlike the freer conditions under Danish control of the Faroe Islands and Iceland, were non-farmers retained equal rights over their land. The Scots managed within a 200-year period to remove from the islanders [Orcadians and Shetlanders] all sense of Norwegian identity and pride. It is said that landlords were so eager to eradicate all Norwegian that the 1700s actually paid farmers to speak Scots.]

  7. I saw this morning a tweet by Nick Griffin linking to a Daily Mail article published yesterday about a Scottish village where 27 young men were killed in WW1. Nick Griffin sees this as 27 more reasons for Scots to vote No. I had not realized that he opposed Scottish independence. I guess it is natural that a structure called “British National Party” would oppose Scottish independence. But if Scotland had been independent back then, those men would not have been sent to their death for no reason.

    It must have been difficult for Scottish people who oppose race-replacement and believe in their country to vote for someone like Nick Griffin. Once Scotland is independent, it will become easier for the Scots to create an anti-replacement party, in replacement of the BNP and of UKIP.

  8. “Once Scotland is independent, it will become easier for the Scots to create an anti-replacement party, in replacement of the BNP and of UKIP.”

    Jack replies:

    If Scots vote “yes” they will be IINO – “Independent in Name Only”.

    EU Bureaucrats in Brussels will determine immigration, social welfare policies, political speech restrictions.

    How can you be “independent” in a society where one does not have the independent freedom to “think”?

  9. For those worrying about the E.U. interfering with Scotland, the E.U. is another failed, multicultural disaster. It’s an even bigger mess than the U.S., or the U.K. Its currency and banking system are wobbling nigh unto collapse at this point.

    I wouldn’t worry about the E.U. in this equation. The E.U. may not even be a going concern in 10 years, if nationalist forces in France, etc, have anything to say about it.

    Do we want the League of the South, and the SN movement to get a boost or not? This isn’t just about Scotland, it’s about Dixie. Let’s have a broader picture.

  10. For England, Scotland leaving is addition by subtraction. Bereft of Scotland’s culturally Marxist whiners, England has a chance to clean up their act. Without the North Sea Oil, England will have to become fiscally responsible (the first Western nation to do so). Unpopular immigration policies can be overturned. UKIP and the BNP have a chance in Parliament. NATO will be that much closer to collapse without Scottish naval bases. All of these are desirable.

    However, the best part about Scottish secession is the hope and inspiration that it will give to those of us who want to set Dixie free from underneath the Yankee boot, and for good this time.

  11. More from Derbyshire’s article:

    ‘The people themselves have been replaced, in one of the greatest acts of collective folly known to the annals of mankind. Worse yet, they have been replaced not by the garlicky gesticulating continentals their grandfathers scoffed at, but largely by Muslims and blacks, the two most troublesome, least assimilable of all human populations.

    Still worse yet, by Somalis, who are Muslim and black. My hometown is infested with Somalis. A friend who visited the place recently reported that: “There are literally hundreds of [Somalis] just sitting there in the main square. Asking a local bartender what they do for a living, the reply was: “Nothing. They just sign on and have lots of kids.”

  12. Scotland’s status in the European Union is in doubt. Scotland will not be part of the European Union for years. This one of the reasons why the British left have been opposed to Scottish independence. The British left will lose it’s biggest voting bloc. Scotland will not be able to support itself on North Sea Oil, and have to cut benefits and taxes. And the biggest problem for the British left is that Scottish independence shows that white people can peaceful nationalist movements.

    Billy Bragg recently wrote an article trying explain difference between SNP to the BNP to British leftists. George Galloway compared the independence movement to the Nazis. The British left know independence of Scotland will not be a successful leftwing project. Scotland will not be in the EU or have enough oil to be a Celtic Norway. In the end both England and Scotland will become more rightwing due to the split up.

  13. This split if it happens will have profound consequences for world history. The act of Union was probably the most important event in the 1700s. Yes I’m placing the US forming as secondary.

  14. My gut instinct is that Scottish independence will not help with Secession in the US.

    Not that a NO vote would help y’all much either.

    This is the equivalent of Montana going it alone. Not a region splitting off from an incompatible culture.

    If OTOH this were like New England voting for independence that’s another question.

  15. The best reason for Scots to vote for Independence is that George Soros and David Frum are against it. Sean Connery is for it, and an independent Scotland would be an addition to the Scandinavian family. England would be more conservative purged of Scottish liberals – and Scotland may have a conservative backlash with growing pains, and secession or threat of it will check the centralized big government pro-gay marriage pro-immigration Radicals. Say Aye !!

  16. Re: ‘Scotland will not be part of the European Union for years’:

    But they should not WANT to be in it. And will they separate from the control of rootless-cosmopolitan Global Banking?

    ‘Thora’, your comments are excellent whenever I come across them.

  17. Good thing secession is in the news and becoming more popular. Even if it’s a left wing nation like Scotland. I imagine if Scotland gets it’s Independence that would be copied all around the World. I’m of the belief that if Scotland goes the stack of cards will start falling down and secession will become more popular in the future even in the South.

  18. Maybe if Scotland becomes independent, there will be a huge surge of ethnic Scots who move back, and then push Scotland to the Right. Apparently, the reason why Scotland is so far to the Left, is because all of their farmers moved to Canada. However, if they moved back, that could change the political direction of Scotland.

  19. I was against it until I heard Scottish independence, will mean the annihilation of the Labour party in the UK. Now I’m all for it. Free Scotland! 🙂

  20. The Derb: “For England to hold on to Scotland would be like a drowning man holding on to the treasured but solid-marble bust of an old friend, or auld acquaintance.”

    Derbyshire has gone crazy. The poor fellow has got the Scot thing.

    Hunter: “The Labour Party has been the driving force in Westminster behind the evils of political correctness, multiculturalism, and Third World immigration. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are two reasons why Scotland should go its own way.”

    So, after the concept of “black run America”, we now have “Scottish run Britain”. I thought race-replacement and political correctness were the contribution of the Jews to Western society, but I now see I was mistaken.

    “Note: We’re under no illusions that we have much in common with the Scottish Nationalist Party which wants to secede from Britain in order to create a multiracial socialist utopia in Scotland along the lines of present day Sweden.”

    The longing for Scotland’s freedom precedes the race-replacement ideology by a few centuries. My prediction is that the crazy leftism that currently dominates everything in Scotland will quickly subside in the first years of the independence.

    Scots Forever: “Scotland will not be able to support itself on North Sea Oil, and have to cut benefits and taxes.”

    The Scots and the English are supposed to be among the smartest people in the world, and you say that the Scots cannot support themselves. That is a ridiculous claim. Besides, if they did have budget problems, it would be an excellent way to prevent an irresponsible policy of mass immigration in the first years of the independence.

    If Scotland stayed in the UK, it seems obvious that the government in London would soon start sending more and more immigrants to Scotland so as to even out the geographic distribution of the immigrant population in Britain.

    I guess the reason why there are currently fewer immigrants in Scotland than in England is because England has more industry and more money. The government sent them where there were both more employment opportunities and more money to take care of people who don’t work. In every centralized country, half the money is concentrated in the bloated capital city. That isn’t an ideal situation for the rest of the country. It is always better for other parts of the country to have their own independent government that will try to protect their own identity and the activities of its own population. That’s why I support independence for every nation.

  21. Oy vey, itz another Holocaust I tell you if Scotland gets independence. I must warn my Rabbi Geraldo Taylor. Oh, the horror. Oh, the humanity. Oh, the Mel Gibson…

  22. “The Scots and the English are supposed to be among the smartest people in the world, and you say that the Scots cannot support themselves. That is a ridiculous claim. ” – he said the oil money couldn’t sustain the benefits they want, not that Scotland couldn’t be independent.

  23. Captain John Charity Spring MA says: “My gut instinct is that Scottish independence will not help with Secession in the US.”

    I agree. No connection. Also, unlike “Dixieland”, Scotland is already a clearly defined country, with well established borders, it’s own legal system, legislature, national sports teams, taxation powers etc, as well as a disproportionate influence on Union politics. ALL opposite the situation in the South.

    On the other hand, an indie Scot economic disaster would be used to argue against regionalism/separatism.

    Most of these arguments are based on sentiments, Propaganda and perceptions. Which is why the same people can be violently opposed to Crimea leaving Ukraine (which it was forced to join, and with which it has not much in common), but violently in favour of Kosovo becoming a NATO protectorate, and in favour of Scotland splitting away because they saw Braveheart, but disgusted by Southern Secessionists because they saw Mississippi Burning and Roots.

    Also, Jeff, above, says he favours Scottie “indie” because Soros opposes it. Silly logic. Rupert Murdoch favours it. Now what? We have to poll the global Elite before we can think for ourselves?

  24. Of course Scotland can be a viable state. But Scots are used to living off the English tit, while constantly crying “more!” and pretending they are oppressed. They CANNOT be economically successful, or even viable, IF they stick to the agenda set out by the SNP. The devil is in the details. After all, in the USA, the Roaring Twenties and Depression Thirties were in the same state, under the same constitution, amongst the same population.

  25. Armor : “If Scotland stayed in the UK, it seems obvious that the government in London would soon start sending more and more immigrants to Scotland so as to even out the geographic distribution of the immigrant population in Britain.”

    False assumption. Salmond, and Sturgeon, and Humza Yousaf (SNP Minister for External Affairs and the Scottish Diaspora) have all condemned the UK for being “xenophobic”, for having such low rates of immigration and low rates of refugee acceptanve, and have accused the UK of keeping too many immigrants in England and depriving Scotland of benefiting from the skills immigrants bring; and so have sworn that an independent (so to speak) Scotland will increase immigration, Forton students, refugee acceptance rates, etc. And will fast track citizenship for foreign residents.

    Epic fail.

  26. Lime Fizz: ” Salmond, and Sturgeon, and Humza Yousaf (SNP Minister for External Affairs and the Scottish Diaspora) have all condemned the UK for being “xenophobic”.”

    That’s why SNP wanted non-Scot & non-Brit residents (10% of the electorate) to be allowed to vote, because they’ve promised them family unification (i.e., SNP is pro Global Union and anti-British Union), and all sort of hand-outs, goodies, freebies.

    They’ve also disenfranschised hundreds of thousands of Scots resident outside Scotland, with the ridiculous claim that it would be too complicated to figure out who’s eligible. Ridiculous, because all they have to do is check: “Are you a British citizen who was born in Scotland?” “Are you a British citizen who has been registered with any government agency as having primarily resided in Scotland for a minimum of 10 years” etc. At the very least, granting absentee balloting to UK citizens (citizens by birth) born in Scotland would have been an easy matter. In Latvia’s first post-Soviet elections they allow votes from anyone in the world who is “Latvian”, even if they weren’t born there or have never been there. Imagine how difficult that would have been to organize. But the UK can’t figure out who’s a Scot in the UK? I wasn’t born yesterday.

    So clearly the SNP doesn’t want all Scots to vote, and wants aliens to vote — because most know almost nothing about Scottish or British history, and will clear off if things go bad, and are mostly motivated to vote “YES” “just to be part of History!” “because I saw that documentary, ‘Braveheart'” “because I hate England!” “because the English colonized my country, Pakistan!” “because I’m Catalonian” “because we French have always been connected to Scotland”.

    It’s a bad joke, from which nothing good can come.

    However, I remain sure that “NO” votes will prevail.

    The whole excercise is a bad joke.

  27. Nigerians voted “Yes” in Scotland referendum

    The Nigerian Vanguard, September 18, 2014

    Some Nigerians who reside in Scotland said they voted “Yes” in the referendum because they were better off in an independent Scottish nation.

    Mrs Macrine Haruna, a journalist, said “I voted yes because of the future of my children. With independence, citizenship for immigrants will be based on residency and birth and this will make it easier for children born here. Also, the Scottish policies on health and education makes it easy for people to access the National Health Scheme, and to acquire free education up to university level.”

    Similarly, Mrs Ama Shallangwa, a vertinary doctor, said she voted in favour of Scottish independence “because Scotland has an aging population so they are embracing immigrants. Alex Salmon, Scotland’s first minister and chief campaigner for independence, loves immigrants, and I know policies will be implemented in our favour,” Shallangwa said.

    However, other Nigerians expressed concern over the referendum, saying it may not be easy for Scotland to adjust after being part of the UK for 300 years.

    Mr Amos Yakubu, an economist, said “a lot of people here do not understand the implication of the independence. With this autonomy, it means Scotland will cease to use the British Pound Sterling, which remains the highest currency in the world. The newly independent Scotland will not be immediately absorbed by the EU, and it means Nigerians with UK visa will need a Scottish visa to visit Scotland. Also, even the Scottish people do not know the huge setbacks this will bring in their pension schem.”

    Yakubu said that majority of the people supporting the independence were the youths who thought it was fashionable or patriotic to support the referendum.

    More than 10,000 Nigerians reside in Scotland, with majority of them working as professionals in various sectors, while others are students in various institutions.

    The huge national community in Scotland accounts for the second largest immigrant settlement after the Polish community.

  28. I just saw the latest results. It looks like independence will be accepted/rejected by a very narrow margin.

  29. Quebecers had a real choice in a proper referendum, and everyone knew that Independence meant Independence.

    The last Q. referendum would have passed except for the anglophone/allophone immigrants (or what they called “the ethnic vote”) who wanted to remain in Canada, which is the state they emigrated to. The role of aliens in Scotland is still uncertain, but I believe they will mostly vote YES. Non-EU non-first-world Commonwealth residents in Scotland might be more evenly split, but as far as I can tell most EU residents vote YES, “just because” – many are students – also they know that an Indie Scotland will honour all present EU travel/residency arrangements for EU-ers resident already in Scotland, even if the EU rejects Scotland.

    Updates: A rout for phony “independence” so far. The metropoles still to announce, but I don’t see it turning the YES trend enough to change the final result.

    Verdict: A bloody waste of time and energy.

  30. The fundament of political strength is the avoiding of raising a child who’s a fool. The Jews know that.

  31. Most English in Scotland have seemed to publicly support “Independence”.

    There are, however, many people in Scotland, of whom it is hard to say exactly who’s Scottish and who’s English. The rate of intermarriage has been very high for centuries.

    The referendum, btw, is over. You can stick a fork in “independence”.

    Yes: 1,149,476
    No: 1,340,295

    The remaining 7 councils to declare will not change the final result.

  32. Logan Smith: “Is there still a chance for a “Yes” win?”

    No, nay, never.
    No, nay, never, no more.

    “Indie”-fever was all just media-hype.

    26/32 councils:

    Yes: 1,176,952
    No: 1,397,077

  33. “That sucks.”

    No. It’s justice. A fake “independence” scam was rightly rejected.

    It’s a pity for England, to be stuck with Scots — but the pathetic English need to stand up for themselves! and not rely on phony Scottish nonsense machinations to liberate them.

    Also, it would have been a disaster for Scots, which is why it was rejected, since most Scots are canny enough to know what’s in their best interests.

    Any other regional separatist movements who tried to stick their colours to the SNP mast rightly now have egg on their faces, which they deserve, for trying to live vicariously through Scottish snake-oil salesmen instead of doing the serious and hard work of organizing their own proper and genuine independence movements.

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