Does the White Nationalist movement need to include women?
We’ve discussed this old issue before here and here and here and here. Listen to this Daily Stormer podcast and read through the comment section. The view over there is that women have no business in any political movement.
What do you think? Should women be included or excluded from White Nationalism?
A small quibble here- you are picturing Golden Dawn, which is not a white nationalist organization as such, but a Greek social nationalist political party and service organization. Part of the political activity includes public events which are attacked by leftists. Part of the service is confronting non-Greek criminals. It’s rough business, not suitable for ladies.
I’m sure the women of Golden Dawn are active in bringing food and other necessary goods to Greeks in need. But you won’t probably won’t see a lot of them at rallies in black t-shirts, or confronting noisy, aggressive louts in a park.
If Golden Dawn was just a political party, it would be kind of pointless, but it helps the Greek people as well. The Greeks are in terrible straits right now, and if you would like to help you can donate through the GD America website.
Women are crucial to nationalism and the service aspect is what would attract them and where they would be most useful. But nobody is doing that now.
Changed the pic.
Women are half of our population. Any movement which wrote them off would be destined to be small and probably of little consequence.
It is interesting that several of the largest nationalist movements in the West are headed by women: The Danish People’s Party, The National Front, The Scottish National Party (admittedly more of a Leftist party but still one focused on identity and sovereignty) and Norway’s Progress Party. When nationalist movements are seen as friendly to women and socially focused they tend to do better in Western Europe. I think the same would be true here but outside of SN and the Kinist families of the Northwest I see only a few small scattered groups on the Right which are nearly all male.
I prefer the system we have now in SN where most of our people are getting married and having children and its more or less a non-issue. I think its great that women and children are around. I want my wife to have friends and my son to grow up having peers that share our worldview.
This is what happens when men lacking the ability to properly adjust to normal social situations attain positions of influence and authority within the “White Nationalist” scene.
Instead of seeking traditional balance, which is seemingly beyond the cognitive abilities of many WN “online activists,” we see the push toward weird masculinity rights movements, and the denigration of literally every single White woman (more along the lines of Negroes and Moslems).
These fools talk about somehow taking back their countries, but at the same time alienate half the population due to their personal defects and emotions, the very things they attack “muh feminists” for.
Wow, today’s White Nationalists have become such bottomfeeders.
@Palmetto Patriot
Very interesting and true statement, and shows the level of foolishness within the ranks of some “nationalist” groups.
Below we we have a woman leading the Nationalist charge in the Baltics, with the credentials and education to compliment it, although apparently the folks pushing “muh Manosphere/PUA” believe this is inherently impossible.
Perhaps they should look at the WN failures over the past two generations, and stop the female bashing, which honestly belongs in an Afghan valley or San Francisco’s Castro District, rather than in a healthy White society.
http://www.dailystormer.com/voice-of-albion-vilma-cekutiene-lithuanian-nationalist-union-party/
Elliot Rodger’s Retribution:
Women tend to go where they perceive the power is.
Once we start winning, then women will start showing up.
That’s a popular theory.
Is it realistic though? Are women going to finally show up when anonymous men confidently parade down the main street of cyberspace underneath their swastika avatars?
Marcus,
I’m glad that you connected this to the larger issue that is “e-activism.” We’ve seen that anyone can pretend to be anything on the internet. Several of those articles linked above are from 2010. In hindsight, that was half a decade ago.
The nationalist parties which are already winning have always included women as other commenters have well pointed out. The only thing stagnate is the WN movement which is in the same place it was 35 years ago – this is not coincidence.
WN have no real cohesion, when there is ethnic cohesion in a group, like Southerners or other various white ethnicities, the fact of being a woman isn’t what matters (Southern states elected the first female governors, Texas way back in 1920, and then Alabama after) it’s whether the person has merit, is an asset, and can be used for whichever purpose she is fit for. No one sees her as an outsider, they see her as part of their in group and will support her efforts.
With WN they have no ideology that is consistent, they have no common ethnicity, no common culture and have a large amount of gay men attracted to it for obvious reasons. They are constantly infiltrated by the FEDS, you can read people’s experiences with that online everywhere, so if a site who exposes Jews or any threat to white society as a whole – they are targeted for splintering. Many times its done very covertly where the person being infiltrated doesn’t even realize it.
For example – suddenly receiving large amounts of donations from a group which is openly known to be run by Jews and Mongrels and whose main platform involves race mixing – such as the “Manosphere”.
It’s unfortunate but Brad had it right all along.
And for 35 years white women have been actively discouraged from White nationalism, this is the other common theme.
Somehow they think re slandering women, or re ‘banning’ them, or rejoicing over their deaths is going to change things. Again. This time it will work. I’m sure they are right.
It’s quite sad that this continuously happens, as the internet does serve a purpose I believe, especially when used in conjunction with organizing for real-life activism and networking to accomplish sociopolitical goals.
But, when you get folks who are driven by their personal feelings and experiences with the opposite sex, and then veer off into the realm of race-mixing and borderline faggotry, like with most of the MGTOW/PUA industry, then infiltration and subversion is a near-certainty.
Strange considering that the message of a certain “personality” not all that long ago consisted of praise for White women, and the need to bring them into the “WN Movement”
http://www.dailystormer.com/daily-stormer-comments-section-going-totally-fascist/
*Scroll to about two-thirds down the article to the “Anti-Women Sentiment” category of the rant for more information.
The internet is fine when it is used as just another communication tool like a cell phone or snail mail.
We really don’t have this problem. Most of know each other in real life. That cuts out the role playing fantasists and the disruptive trolls. We don’t use the internet solely to vent about how awful the world has become. When it is used that way, it becomes a safety valve for time wasting
And quickly stagnates into forms that are best relegated to the realm of bad humor.
This is why WN websites and forums are usually left alone for the most part, as even the ADL and SPLC Jews and Marxists need to have a laugh once in a while, while internet resources that lead to real-life activism get blasted with the full strength of federal governments.
My opinion. I say this as someone who is no fan of the US but allowing women to vote was one of the major errors that has led to its downfall.
No one disputes the damage to our society caused by feminism.
Do we want to double down on that problem and create a male version of feminism? IMO, that would just make an already bad situation even worse and make it that much more difficult to accomplish our goals. I’m not a fan of gender based identity politics, male or female.
Women are going to do whatever they want to do. Who cares? This isn’t the military the fire department, or the presidency. Women definitely don’t belong in combat or leadership roles in the military and the same should apply to political office. God bless Marine Le Pen, but she isn’t doing anything for the French reputation as effeminate pansies and rifle droppers. The men are the ones dying when society is in trouble.
Jeff according to every statistic and election, it has actually been the votes of white women in the South who have SAVED the country from full on Marxism. When you have most Southern women voting 82%+ conservative and you have white men outside the South in places like Maine and Oregon, which vote 2:1 for the black Marxist president – or every liberal ever – how can the blame be put on white women?
Nationally, white men and women only have a 6% point difference in their voting patterns, this breaks down even further when you look state by state, county by county. And some Southern states women actually outvoted men in numbers for conservatives. Why would we take away something which binds us (The South) so closely? We know why the WN/Yanks want us because without the south the US would have went nearly 90% for Obama….can you imagine?
One of the Southern men who fought for the right of white women to vote – being that black males could and there were more white women who were of the same tradional system – called the wgite women’s suffrage, the Souths Greatest Coup in the early 20th century. We then began to get our folks into politics and such.
Let’s see who the real traitors are and hard numbers instead of emotion driven rhetoric. Here’s a breakdown of several states and how their votes went on the last Presidential election, this is only white men and white women votes below for the Conservative candidate.
AL – 84% Men, 83% Women FL – 64% Men, 59% Women
Miss – 88% Men, 89% Women NC – 68% Men, 68% Women
VA – 64% Men, 60% Women. LA – 86% Men, 87% Women
————————————————————————————–
Vermont – 39 %. Men, 28%. Women Conn – 54% Men, 44% Women
Maine – 46% Men, 35% Women Mass – 47% Men, 38% Women
Oregon – 45% Men, 43% Women
————————————————————————————–
As we can see, the white female vote of the South is more than double the white male vote of many states (there are many more I didn’t list) and this is with a black buffoon on the ballot in a re election after he’d shown his incompetence. And the white Yanks had a white Yank Massachusetts governor (voted in twice and well liked) to vote for, but they did not care – they vote for liberals even when one of their own is up. It shows they have zero integrity or love of their land/people, they vote Marxist.
These make voters put him in office. Once you realize where the problem lies perhaps you can begin to address it.
Overall votes counted, white women only trailed 6% behind white men in voting conservative. Also we saw recently an example of white women voting out a Supposed media darling white woman in favor of a white man, when the white women of Texas overwhelmingly voted the carpetbagger Wendy Davis out of office, and they were roundly criticized after.
The difference is largely due to single women with children voting for Democrats because they are on government assistance. That’s due to the breakdown of the family and the expansion of government
But these sorts of arguments, supported by statistics, facts, and logic, run into a wall when dealing with the dregs of society that are now seemingly a part and parcel of internet-activist “WN.”
According to the new party line on some venues, due to the comment being made by a woman, it is instantaneously irrelevant, while every sort of nonsense becomes commonplace if pushed by a man.
Man’s Pride, literally and figuratively, comes before the fall, and is now going to lead to even further declines in online “White Nationalist” circles.
Hunter – are you referring to the 6% difference nationwide? Because most of the Southern whites voted almost entirely the same statistically and I am sure there are plenty of single moms in some of those states.
That’s why I think it goes back to pure genetics and region/culture/ethnicity. Even the single moms who would benefit far more in the immediate from liberal policy mostly reject it outright, that’s actually not very important to them, keeping our heritage and conservative style culture alive is. And even though I think the R party is long past sold out, it does show without a doubt that these things are genetic.
The majority of whites who voted for libs in AL were the same as in other states: Catholics, expat Yanks, (outlier in the South) Liberal, and Jews – although they are not white they are classed as white on census data.
HW wrote:
Is it realistic though? Are women going to finally show up when anonymous men confidently parade down the main street of cyberspace underneath their swastika avatars?
I respond:
Parading down the middle of the internet with swastika avatars isn’t winning.
There’s another thing. What WN? WN is nothing more than people bitching on the internet about the Jews. In theory, WN is all about white people in various democratic republics one day figuring out they’re white and using the democratic republican system to rise up against the Jews. That and a bridge to China.
NRx is way more sane and way more defensible and in spite of its long odds, way more likely to have success than WN.
Crimson Tide
If all those votes of all those white women in the South in the last Presidential election had gotten what they voted for, we’d have President Mitt Romney today, pushing for open borders no borders immigration surge, prohibiting real immigration law enforcement.
All our votes last November got us John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, who have not yet passed a piece of legislation to block Obama’s amnesty fatwa.
WNs have to deal with the Feminist Question just as much as they do the JQ. While there are diamonds in the rough as the white women Hunter and Matthew Heimbach married, most white women are not a bunch of virginal Bennett sisters from a Jane Austin novel waiting to be married. They are raised in the narcissistic “self-esteem” movement then go to college indoctrinated into feminism while having drunken sex at parties before pursuing a career. Marriage and children are put off till after their prime if pursued at all. Even those girls who don’t consider themselves feminists believe in “You-Go-Girlism” which is just old school feminism that has become The New Normal for white women. They are also overwhelming lock-step in line with the Liberal policies that hurt our people because of misguided compassion. Again there are exceptions but they are still just exceptions.
Liberalism has made the majority of our women a fifth column in our civilization. WNs need to deal with this reality.
Feminism has ruined lots of women, true.
Is it possible to find a good woman, have children, and live an otherwise normal life? Of course, but it is not as easy as it used to be.
My preference is what we have now within the League and CofCC where lots of young men are getting married now and having children. James Edwards and his wife just had a son. Matt and Shane have kids on the way. Several of our other friends already have children or will probably have them soon.
I’m more optimistic about this than I used to be. I think we have a lot to look forward to.
@QD- as I said its a corrupt system all around, I was merely showing the breakdown along regional lines not gender lines. That is what the WN bang on about, all white women vote liberal etc etc, which is statistically untrue.
And I cannot stand intellectual dishonesty.
But I agree Mitt Romney sucks, they all suck save Sessions.
Crimson Tide
I did notice that there’s no gender gap in the South.
They must be excluded. White Nationalism must be fueled by young white men, not inferior, childish and emotional women.
Of course they should be involved- half the population are people dumb or stupid?
That’s not even a question and wtf is a manosphere a gay bar?
I meant they should be involved if they are without their own nationalist party at all….this is a catch 22 for women outside the Southeast I guess. Or some Euro zone place.
It is destroying my entire belief in White Nationalism that this “question” is even being brought up and discussed. Even worse, that women are actually dignifying this nonsense and arguing with the men. I feel like I’ve grown up on a different planet than you people. I always ignore the ‘mudshark” comments and the absolute hatred towards women while reading the pro-White websites because I assumed it was just ignorant young men who aren’t smart enough to understand that we all grew up in the same Western World with the same bad influences and that women have been effected and dragged down and that men have very obviously been effected — or we wouldn’t be in this predicament because they would have protected their women, children and territory in the first place instead of putting notches on the bed post, being obsessed with sports and being GI Joe for the Jews’ wars.
The constant anti-woman mentality and disdain for people who don’t have the “image” you want — it seems to be some immature radicalized fantasy you have of being supreme Aryan male knights, or some such nonsense, impressing the world so much that they want to join in and follow you. It’s frightening to see the few people you thought you could identify with are that delusional. You’re trashing the people you claim to want to protect. You’re never going to represent upper-middle-class Whites in the all-White suburbs who are too concerned about their image and community standing to speak out. Those filthy Whites support anti-White policies but commit White Flight so they don’t have to deal with it. They’re already dead inside. The working-class Whites are ideologically aware because they’re stuck in these neighborhoods that fill up with immigrants.
I find it hard to believe that any pro-White believes they can “convert” someone into being a pro-White by being impressive clean-cut snazzy dressers marching down the street or by being heroic impressive men who put women in their place and wow everyone with their amazing intellect.
You’re not knights and glorious Aryan goddesses with flowing blond hair sitting at the knight’s feet. You’re just average people. The people you’re trying to attract are just like you, the average Joe and Jane. How many of you became aware because someone “converted” you? Not many, I bet. You went down the rabbit hole because what was happening to our countries concerned you and you did your research. That’s what convinced you.
Just have the information available for them when they get concerned. This is NOT an ideology you can sell. The Jews have made sure of that. Being Pro-white can make you lose your job or get your family members killed Ruby Ridge-style. People have to come to it on their own. But when they do, they see all this backward nonsense and get scared off.
Are the movers and shakers in this movement with your blogs and vlogs trying to promote yourselves personally or are you trying to help Whites? Stop trashing Whites, whether they have tattoos or are fat with crooked teeth or are Slavic or female. It’s such a shallow Western behavior to be so concerned about your image as well as the image of those you stand with. It takes the humanity out of it. It’s so disappointing to see that this is what pro-White men are. White men are simply addicted to fighting other Whites and our history shows that.
There is a difference between seeing women as the valued members of society that they obviously are and endorsing a specifically woman’s opinion in a political movement. You are confusing the two in an obviously trollish manner. This is below you.
Someone linked me here from the DS and I have to say this is why the WN movement is and never will go anywhere. Yeah man go ahead and throw away all your major principles to focus on an issue which really started up in the last four or five decades and most women I know despise feminists. You can tell from the downhill turn of his writing this is where he was going, the land of irrelevancy and now he’s ‘let go’ of his best writer over something so trivial and aired it for the world to see. No doubt the splc jews are getting a real giggle over this one mate.
Occigent,
There’s more to this story.
That’s a good question, but I didn’t start this debate.
I don’t know how we are going to carry on the White race by excluding the female half of it. Whatever though, I just wanted to hear some feedback on this. I will post my own thoughts later, maybe tomorrow.
I’m a woman. I’ve been very active since around 1975
When affirmative action destroyed the merit employment system
I think it would be best to ignore the entire gender issue
The worst White traitors are the gays. The movement and spokes critters are all White, mostly men. Affirmative action victimizes White men more than any other group but White gay men are the worst of White traitors
The first article linked above, “Why Women Reject White Nationalism “, is still the best thing written on the subject. The sad thing is, the position expressed in that article was shared by DS when it first started, though it has now apparently taken a very different direction.
Look at the difference one year can make:
http://www.dailystormer.com/defending-the-honor-of-the-princess/
http://www.dailystormer.com/a-valentines-day-message-of-bitterness-and-loathing/
The obsession with ‘women’s role’ is an almost singularly American fixation in the eurosphere. A century and a half ago, American Indians gathered to stave off what had already become inevitable, at the Battle of Little Big Horn or Custer’s Last Stand.
Will the white americans lead their entire race into subjugation and genocide, or will they make a stand before it’s too late?
Was it ‘manism’ which led them to conquer an entire race and continent? Will that now become their own annihilation?
Both sexes set out for the promised land west of their materfamilias. Both bear responsibility for keeping some faith. Andrew Anglin is the bastard child of the Neverending American Revolution – spoiled, unruly and all about himself. At times brilliant and intrepid, he’s either flaming out or possibly flaming.
In the time this chapter of WN’s saga took to unfold, Angelo Gage and friends actually got something done.
Hail American pragmatism.
I cannot believe the position DS took, this is why our “Movement” never has the power to take off, alienating white women is a terrible idea, and frankly comes of as Faggotry. I follow a simple rule laid out to me from St.Paul from Jesus Christ,
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
If he wants to run the online equivalent of a frat or a gentleman’s club or a bar, a place for men to hang out and talk about various issues, the sort of places that used to exist in the Old South, that’s his choice and I wouldn’t have any objection to it. Men used to socialize all the time, for example, in antebellum mansions around here. Women would go in another room and talk about other things of interest to them.
Who wants to sit around and listen to a bunch of bitter, aggrieved, weak, anonymous Elliot Rodger types who resent all women though? There’s already more than enough angry, alienated, and negative men in WN. The concern is that these anonymous, emasculated Elliot Rodger types from the manosphere – again, anyone can pretend to be anything on the internet – will come in and polarize the sexes against each other and push their butthurt agenda to the fore.
This illustrates what I am reacting against:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7mho_QpQIQ
Greetings! Marcus Cicero – I love your writing.
Where can I hear your podcast with you and Crimson. I’d love to hear the podcast that started all this.
Thanks.
PS – the Hubby and I went to a local dance party last night. A local event. There were hundreds of White men and women there. We had a great time. Just about every was dancing, and enjoying each other’s company. We all talked to each other…and a wonderful couple won the dance contest. They danced beautifully together….and you could tell they were very happy together. I was very pleased, because I left my purse alone, right in the middle of the table last night – and nothing was missing. That one tiny but telling detail is something I don’t want my world to lose….
Of course, we need women in our movement. There’s no question about that, whatsoever. Just not from a feminist perspective.
Yes, they made the best torturers in the Iron Guard.
But yeah, in all seriousness, all successful nationalist movements from the past century had women auxiliaries which contributed to their ultimate success. Some others were probably dragged down by such organizations- I don’t think the Women of the Ku Klux Klan did anyone any favours. I would suspect that such involvement was more positive than negative on the whole.
I think the actual question is who is caring what ‘white’ (debate able) nationalist think? We have these groups over here we call them ‘paper nationalíst’ because they are as changeable as the wind and they run upon any danger and will very fast fold under pressure. They always do self destruction somehow.
I was involved in such a type of group like this in my place for a while and back then it was a group of drunks bitching about negroes – now it seems to be all drunks bitching/sobbing over women with their keyboards glued in hand. These types will never do anything and running femelles off seems such a homoerotíc first step. I’ve seen it.
Women should be in in Southern Nationalism, if they’re Southern.
Stay away – far, Far, far away from WN – it’s literally Satans handiwork.
I mean their leaders all sleep with gooks and various chinks/non whites then go on some weird power trip, then rat each other’ out all while stabbing everyone involved in the back. What a motley crew of outrageous misfits.
If anyone took advice from me it would be: WN ARE LIARS, COWARDS AND HOAXERS, DONT GET ANYWHERE NEAR THEM THEY EXUDE TOXICITY.
In the last month I had the harrying experience of having to get a new driver’s license in a very diversified area. Within minutes of waiting in line at the DMV behind some hajibess who was taking half an hour to accomplish what took everyone else two minutes, an english ex-pat woman turned to me and went off on how London was no longer english and how the arab men go around ordering english women to change their clothes even when they’re not risque. The russian immigrants were also outraging her.
My point is that europeans and americans are on the brink of some tipping point. All sorts of people are beginning to freely admit their disgust and indignation – especially women, who have straggled for decades.
Anglin is a total mental case (or worse) to literally sabotage what might have become a real revolution, but he’s always been beyond neurotic about women so what’s the big surprise? Further, anyone who thinks real change, as opposed to mere education, will happen on the internet is a mental case.
This is my perception of what happens when women get involved in politics. Notice which gender is spearheading this Mormons Building Bridges rally
http://i0.wp.com/farm9.staticflickr.com/8018/7336830592_d6dc66eb41_z.jpg
Imagine if a black man said something about white people behind their back (yea just imagine), could you see his woman, sister or mother having a tantrum and calling a “racist”? Can you imagine black women going out with White men to prove their liberalism, open mindedness and cultural eclecticism?? Can you imagine black women crucifying black men, saying that they are evil and that they don’t want to be associated with them? White Women are the weak link. They will not become loyal until they get raped, robbed, infected with STDs, etc.. and even then they don’t! It will have to come to an every day struggle for basic survival for them to be a
Here’s an exchange from DS, February 8 2015, that I’m going to transcribe since OD won’t allow uploads of screenshots:
Harry: my woman is as thin as a model and I beat the shit out of her everyday.
Brian K: If you’re the type of man who likes to beat woman, all I have to say is…date a fattie and it won’t hurt your knuckles so much. She should be shorter too. Lower center of gravity is less likely to spiral all over the place and break stuff.
In Anglin’s latest installment, he clarifies that he’s gone full sandn*gger. But again, this should come as no surprise. It was always sketchy to crank on both jews and blacks with such venom. He’s just admitting now that all he really wants to be is a crank.
Almost on cue Anglin just posted this gem:
“Yeah, see. They [women] are just doing that to invade a male space and force their values on you in this infinite quest to find some man who has the balls to stand up to them and put them in their place.
Women do not actually care about politics in any way, and single women would be just as happy to get conquered by Moslems if the Moslems were willing to put them in their place. And they obviously are willing to do that, which is why you have this massive crisis of women having sex with these animals in Europe.”
Exactly which crisis is Anglin referring to here? The one where rings of pakis rape girl children, by the thousands?
Good riddance to this weird looking emotional defective.