Looking back on the 2016 election, I supported Donald Trump mainly because I was persuaded by the argument that he was moving the Overton Window. The difference between nationalism and the liberal Right is based on how we perceive and value others in our communities and nation.
Here is how I think about it:
Libertarianism – Selfish individualist, materialist, typically a hedonist and an atheist. Does not believe in the common good. Very weak sense of identification with others in his community. Wants a minimal government and relationship with others. Happy to live and consume in Burger World.
Conservative Liberalism – A liberal individualist whose moral views are moderated by some outside force, usually Christianity, who is content to live his own life but has a stronger sense of community. Sees the country as an aggregate of rights-bearing individualists whose freedom is protected by the Constitution. In group determined by legal status. Romanticizes liberty.
Civic Nationalism – A liberal nationalist who is a collectivist who strongly identifies with his fellow citizens. Believes in the common good. Prioritizes citizens over foreigners. Sees the country as an “us” as opposed to “them.” In group determined by legal status, not race, religion, ethnicity, culture, etc.
Ethnonationalist – A blood and soil nationalist who is a collectivist who strongly identifies with other people in his community, tribe or nation based on ascriptive characteristics like race and ethnicity and organic ties like a shared culture, religion and history. Strongly believes in the common good and the interests of his group. Prioritizes his people over foreigners. Sees his people as an “us” as opposed to “them” and identifies the nation with “us.” Not necessarily hostile to other groups but puts his own group first. In group determined by organic ties, not legal status.
Now, I was under the impression for a while that Donald Trump and the MAGA movement represented civic nationalism, not conservative liberalism or libertarianism. This is not what we believe, but at least an argument could be made that it was a step in our direction and away from the liberal Right. Civic nationalism represented a greater awareness of an “us” on the American Right. This “us” had to be defended from foreign threats whether it was the Chinese, drugs or illegal aliens. The “Forgotten Man” would be forgotten no longer or so we were told at the inauguration.
The COVID-19 pandemic was the ultimate foreign threat. The virus was a threat to all American citizens regardless of race, sex or political ideology, but particularly the weak, the elderly and the poor. Defeating the virus required a president who was, oddly enough, the sort of civic nationalist that Trump had pretended to be who would defend the interests of the “Forgotten Man” even at the expense of the wealthy and who wasn’t hung up on inflated fears of “racism” and “xenophobia.” The man had literally run for president ostensibly to stick it to the globalists and close the borders. And yet, when the time finally came for Trump to remember the “Forgotten Man” who normally isn’t heard much from in the liberal Right it was the counsel of the private equity and hedge fund billionaires who wanted to “ride it out” to keep the stock market at record highs that was heeded. Even worse, this tremendous wave of suffering and death has been minimized and swept under rug to be forgotten.
It has been amazing to watch from my perspective. I don’t claim to be a civic nationalist or an American Nationalist. I’ve been highly alert to the threat since the beginning in January and so far my ethnic group has only been lightly affected. The virus has absolutely ravaged the Northeast though where over half the people who have died from it lived. It has killed 1 out of every 500 people in New York City. Aren’t those people American citizens though? Shouldn’t Trump and the MAGA movement who supposedly believe in civic nationalism have been up in arms about this historic wave of death? Plainly, they are not. Instead, they are up in arms about wearing masks and a lost grilling season.
Was any of this we were told by the Trump campaign ever real? Did the MAGA movement ever really care about their fellow citizens? I’ve been struck by the fact that they seem far less moved than they were after 9/11. This has been nothing like what happened after 9/11. It is like 50,000 Bruce Springsteens died from COVID-19 and American Nationalists yawned, shrugged it off and went to the beach. In fact, they are the 25% of the population who doesn’t give a shit!
As a nationalist movement, MAGA has failed by its own standards. When the country needed a greater sense of nationalism in a major crisis, they walked away from it.
Note: If American Nationalists don’t care about so many of their fellow citizens dying from the virus, do you think they care about something as abstract as the future of their ethnic group?
Most folks are indifferent, and, beyond that, feel impotent to affect any positive change.
I’ve noticed a kind of universality in this, because I see this in my neighbours – whether White, Black, Red, Hispanic, male, female, old, young, male, female, Christian or atheist.
The underlying agreement between The Citizenry and the varying levels of government seems to be : ————- ‘Don’t get in my way (i.e. shopping, football, social media, church, eating out) and I won’t get in your way.
Do what you want, but, leave me alone, or, if you don’t leave me alone, at least break the law and sneak about my personal affects without making me aware of it.”
This is The Ruling Ethos.
What will happen, however, when one of the parties grows no longer content with this arrangement?
Nonsense. Only white conservatives are so apathetic and atomized. You are projecting. Blacks protest at the drop of a hat.
And they kill each other at the drop of a hat too.
I am definitely in the “Ethnonationalist” camp.
And although what you said is largely true, I am, “not necessarily hostile to other groups” I do feel, and have, since I was a young boy, a deep-seated hatred and revulsion to Black Africans. No matter if they are blacks in Baltimore, or Somalis in Minneapolis, I despise them, their race, their culture, their kinky hair, their Congo drums and mosques. I see nothing of value in Africa or Africans.
I have found a lot of merit in Southern Blacks. They are often exquisite cooks, excellent drivers, fine comedians, carpenters, and custodians.
Two things Southern Negroes have and do better than any other group in the whole world – warm hearts and play ball.
The achievements of The Southern Negro at sport is something amazing in the annals of human history.
As to warm hearts – there is no group of people in the world who are as genuinely jovial, hospitable, and downright kind as Southern Negroes, for the Southern Negro has a reservoir of feeling and sentiment not matched by any other race in the world.
Moreover, they used to be very good in the field, or, that is, until The Jew England Yankee United States’ Government decided to construct a system whereby, instead of allowing them to be excellent servants and fieldhands, many of them would, and will, become idle or gangsters.
And so we come to what is bad – The Southern Negro, if not carefully tended to, can easily go wrong, he likely to become a thief or a no-account lout as anything.
I, myself, have been the victim of criminal assaults on my person, by Blacks unfamiliar to me, in big cities.
That this these kinds of acts are so frequent today, is because White Southerners would not raise The Confederate flag in the 1950s and 60s, and teach Uncle Sam yet another lesson.
And so it is that much of The Southern Negro Community has been wrecked – all by The Northern White Man’s ‘policies’ supposedly designed to liberate him from our ‘hateful ways’.
Lastly, I’ll say this – as a child of the upper class at the end of Jim Crow, I was tended to by every kind of Negro servant. I was served well, and often with great affection, most particularly by my nannies – Auntie Myrtle and Auntie Mary, and by our driver, John.
They loved me truly and I loved them. If someone insulted their memory to my face, they would be sorry, indeed.
Like other White families of the patrician class in those days, most of our Negroes were not just our servants, but members of our family.
My wife’s daddy, from a small farming community outside of Union Springs, Alabama, was raised by the same Auntie Belle as had raised her granddaddy and great-granddaddy.
When her daddy was badly bitten, as a boy, by poison snakes, Auntie Belle made him poultices and prayed over him, round the clock, for two days, until he got well.
So strong was the bond between my wife’s daddy and his Belle, that, when he took my wife, as a little girl, to see his Mammy Belle, my wife remembers how as soon as they walked into the old Negress’s cabin, without announcing themselves, Belle (by then a completely blind centennarian) broke out of conversation with her kin and shouted to my wife’s daddy : ———‘My Baby, come to me, My Baby!’
There … I have written the truth of what I have seen, and if that infuriates the liberal member of the government surveillance state, going through this blog, or one of my commenting brethren on The Right, so be it.
The truth, however, is complex, and rarely makes good political talking points, so we’ll tell lies and half-truths, so that we can shout, ‘Hurrah, Hurrah!’, and feel that we have accomplished something.
I think you and I have had very, very different lives, with very different experiences with blacks and other ethnic groups. This essay I wrote explains why I see the world of race as I do.
https://einvolk.blog/2020/05/26/my-racial-awaking/
Turgenev isn’t a serious poster. He’s playing a role and sucking air out of metaphorical room. If this comment board has an ignore/block/mute feature, I’d like to know about it.
@Geir…
Yes, of course, we have had different experiences, most obviously with Blacks.
That’s okay.
In no way was I refuting your testimony, because that was what it was – yours. I just wished to buttress it with some contrast.
That said, the difficulty is that multiculturalism has all sorts of upsides and downsides, but, this country, no matter how it is composed, will never be anything but that, because the overwhelming of Whites will never be in favour of deporting tens of millions of people or in launching reprisals against them, just for having been born as The Good Lord made them to be.
So, if you yearn to be in a nearly entirely White Nation, you would fare best in Europe, particularly in the countries of The Visegrad Alliance, instead of imagining something that can never be, here.
All the best to you, Geir!
Turganev, your simpering cuckery is utterly repulsive.
You should stop making a spectacle of your nigger love and spic love here, and go bleat and virtue signal on the Daily Kos or some other White-hating online rag, and spare us your long and frankly disgusting explorations of your personal fetishes.
If you’re the same Ivan Turgenev who posted previously, I couldn’t help noticing in your previous posts you would use the spelling “-our” instead of “-or.” For example, neighbour vs neighbor. So I assumed you were from the UK or European. So which is it? Did Old South/Jim Crow southerners use the -our spelling up until recently?
@Inquiring…
Yes, the spelling is Olde Southron – the same type that we, until recent decades, maintained in our Dixie.
Thank you for the enquiry!
@Anonymous & Ironsides…
I thank y’all for having taken the time to read and comment, and, most certainly I respect y’all’s right to see me however ya’ll please.
That said, I do not see myself as ‘a Cuck’ or ‘Unserious’.
Why?
First, because, like y’all, my comments are very sincere.
Second, to be a ‘Cuck’, one must be deracinated, egalitarian, and politically correct, neither of the thrain am I.
No, Gentlemen, the post to which y’all are so strenuously objecting is full of a kind of racism that would make The Left puke, it they would label as appallingly ‘paternalistic’ and Southern White Supremacist.
By the way, speaking of ‘Paternalism’, the views I shared were very common in The Olde South, though, nowadays, race-consciousness has embraced the notion that, in order to first love your own kind, you must either visibly despise, and or be publically sceptical of everyone else.
That I am not.
We live in a world, and, indeed, a South, that has different tribes, and, as a Southern Nationalist, I embrace the idea of a Southern Nation ruling itself for the benefit of all – NOT so that we, The Southern Whites can marginalize, repress, and subordinate them.
I love my White Brethren, particularly those Southern, but, I do find a lot to respect in others, as well.
I thank the Good Lord for His might and amazing Creation.
Alright, enough of that. Be well!
Now I understand more completely why you rub me the wrong way.
The answer to Hunter’s insistent question ‘Why?’ above, is that normal people generally have come to understand that nearly all the ‘covid dead’ are elderly or in ill health and usually both
Analysis of Massachusetts corona deaths:
“Nearly every single coronavirus-related death had been a patient with an underlying condition or previous hospitalisation
“98.1 percent (1,289) of people who died after contracting the disease had an underlying condition, such as chronic lung disease, serious heart ailments, obesity, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, or liver disease,” the report showed.
1,905, or 63% of the state’s deaths, have been people aged 80 or older.
New data continues to paint the picture that liberal groupthink and media panic about the virus prompted a massive overreaction.”
In Continental Europe’s worst death rate countries, 2x – 3x the US death rate, there is little angst … People can see it is nearly all elderly and sick people, and just a few randos
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-05-27/981-coronavirus-deaths-massachusetts-have-had- underlying-health-condition-or-prior
“98.1 percent (1,289) of people who died after contracting the disease had an underlying condition, such as chronic lung disease, serious heart ailments, obesity, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, or liver disease”
You understand that this describes the majority of Americans, right? Just looking at obesity alone, that’s 40% of adults. Add in the rest of these conditions and it’s more than half of the country.
“The virus has absolutely ravaged the Northeast though where over half the people who have died from it lived”
Think you made a mistake, Hunter.
Re: Springsteen hit:
Dead Kennedys hit:
Dead Kennedys were a great punk band I played my vinyl copy of fresh fruit for rotting vegetables til it worn out and starting skipping
The band were big liberatian lefties tho, they weren’t shy about their hatred of republicans
It’s over for White America. We’re not gonna convince self-proclaimed conservatives to conserve anything tangible when all they care about is muh personal freedom and muh guns. That Ramzpaul photo sums it up quite well.
A 56 year old single man who still plays video games with children on the internet, is very suspect IMO.
I didn’t like Jordan Peterson for the same reason that I don’t like RamZPaul. I sensed something off about him, that he was fundamentally broken on the inside. It turns out I was right about Peterson.
Off topic but my state is going nuts over the cop who killed the black man by digging his knee into his neck
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/26/hundreds-of-protesters-march-in-minneapolis-after-george-floyds-deadly-encounter-with-police/
Badge naggers are utterly useless and they do police brutality to whites like that more often then blacks but blacks actually fight back when its done to them making it worse tho the cop was in the wrong that was a unnecessary lethal choke hold.
The cops should of just detained him and put him in the cruiser, this whole fiasco could of been averted instead they played out that drama with the Asian cop saying stand back to the joggers who were filming watching it unfold then the looting and burnings began when it was announced George was dead
The thing about Trump is he took his entire political strategy from Pat Buchanan but I don’t think he ever cared about us or Nationalism. He’s a fake to the 10,000th level. Everything he says or does really doesn’t surprise me. He’s the economic plantation President….he cares nothing about the Health, the Southern People or White Western Civilization. Deo Vindice !
With Trump the movement got exactly what it campaigned for. A con man and Chabad Mafia front man.
Trump joined Pat Buchanan’s party and then called everyone in it, including Buchanan, a Nazi and left it. That should have told you everything you needed to know about Trump’s true character. The other fact that he prefers the company of Jews to Whites, should have been a big clue to the clueless.
The movement had all the information about Trump, but were too big brained to listen. Even worse, the big brains in the moevement are going to campaign for him again. “Lesser of two evils, bro!”
We should compile a list of all the warning signs about Trump. We should also evaluate nationalist leaders based on how skeptical they were of him.
HW was dumb enough to fall for Trump’s con and lies just like he’s falling for the Coronhoax. In a year or two when the hoax get exposed for what it is and why they pushed it, he will walk it back. BTW mask-tards, maybe you should read the warning labels on your unsealed masks. It says, these masks will not protect you from Covid-19 or any other virus. You people really are sheep.
103,000 dead now.
It is still going too.
The masks aren’t supposed to protect you. They are to help limit you from spreading the virus to others. Airborne droplets and all that.
@Mr. Pace…
“The thing about Trump is he took his entire political strategy from Pat Buchanan but I don’t think he ever cared about us or Nationalism. He’s a fake to the 10,000th level. ”
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Don’t that sound like Bill Clinton, George Bush, or Barack Obama?
Unfortunately, the system throws up scapegraces, of every sort. Perhaps that was why our Forefathers mostly preferred those men who had been vetted by battle.
“Don’t that sound like Bill Clinton, George Bush, or Barack Obama?”
Umm, no. They did not take their entire political strategy from Pat Buchanan. Quite the opposite, in fact.
He’s referring to Trump’s attempt to take over the Reform Party; Trump failed because he was blocked by WN and other right-wing activists. Trump then denounced Pat Buchanan and David Duke and basically said he wanted nothing to do with a Reform Party that was full of “nazis” and “klansmen”.
But Trump learned his lesson: that there was a large, unserved, untapped market for WN and implicit WN which he took advantage of in 2016.
Trump never believed any of his 2016 rhetoric: it was cynical and opportunistic. But people were fooled because this kind of rhetoric had been banished from the public space for so long that it was difficult to believe that anyone would risk their public standing by resorting to it, without being sincere about it.
Your definition of Civic Nationalism is very charitable. I’d define it as a neutered form of Ethno-Nationalism, where the adherent has been so bullied by the Jewish media that the only legitimate in-group preference in his mind is the legal abstraction of citizenship.
Jew-approved nationalism would be a more fitting term.
That’s precisely what it is. Your definition is spot-on.
“If American Nationalists don’t care about so many of their fellow citizens dying from the virus, do you think they care about something as abstract as the future of their ethnic group?”
Therein lies the problem. Caring deeply for you own people isn’t an abstraction. It’s a deep spiritual connection to our ancestors, those alive today and those to live in the future. Radical individualism has stripped us of this spiritual connection.
I don’t think COVID-19 should be a litmus test for nationalism, how very silly. I consider myself a white nationalist and because of this, I care about other white people, and not just their chance of getting a virus that likely will not kill them. Have you stopped to think about all of the whites who are losing everything – jobs, businesses, savings, homes, their mental health, and their ability to build a future where having white children is feasible because of the lockdowns? While I agree that this virus shouldn’t have even made it into our country, I disagree that just obeying the government makes you some sort of hero for the white race. The government hates white people, or have you totally overlooked that?
As a grown white man with a blue collar job who has two young children, I fail to see how you speak for someone like me. My company contracts jobs out and we’ve lost 50% of our business and I haven’t been able to make my mortgage payment for the last 2 months because the state shut down most of the small businesses we service or they simply can’t afford to pay us. Many of my friends are in the same position. My wife and I were planning to have another child this summer and now that’s not going to happen. One less white child will be brought into this world. This is all a-ok with you though since you don’t have real world problems I guess? The irony of you making fun or Ramz for doing just that is beyond ignorant. You have no self-awareness.
One thing we need to talk about is the influence of 4chan and edgelord culture on the alt-right. That stuff had literally zero influence on us when the alt-right formed in the 00’s. But most people who have joined in the last 6 years, since the Martin/Zimmerman thing are influenced by that stuff. That sensibility permeated our movement. 4chan troll culture is overwhelmingly racist boomer in its thinking. For example, they responded to BLM with pro-police, pro-system thinking, advocating more militarized police and more state power. I notice that even non-Americans from that milieu are heavily influenced by American racist boomer type thinking.
I found that strange as an old school white nationalist who joined the movement when people like William Pierce and David Lane were the big leaders. Everyone back then hated police and the government. The attitude was to stay neutral in fights between the state and blacks. They were much more aware of the larger picture than most dissident right folks are now. The pro-white movement has grown, but at the expense of lowered ideological understanding.
“A liberal nationalist who is a collectivist who strongly identifies with his fellow citizens. Believes in the common good. Prioritizes citizens over foreigners. Sees the country as an “us” as opposed to “them.” In group determined by legal status, not race, religion, ethnicity, culture, etc.”
Because the people promoting this aren’t liberal, let alone honest:
“The COVID-19 pandemic was the ultimate foreign threat. The virus was a threat to all American citizens regardless of race, sex or political ideology, but particularly the weak, the elderly and the poor. Defeating the virus required a president who was, oddly enough, the sort of civic nationalist that Trump had pretended to be who would defend the interests of the “Forgotten Man” even at the expense of the wealthy and who wasn’t hung up on inflated fears of “racism” and “xenophobia.” The man had literally run for president ostensibly to stick it to the globalists and close the borders. And yet, when the time finally came for Trump to remember the “Forgotten Man” who normally isn’t heard much from in the liberal Right it was the counsel of the private equity and hedge fund billionaires who wanted to “ride it out” to keep the stock market at record highs that was heeded. Even worse, this tremendous wave of suffering and death has been minimized and swept under rug to be forgotten.”
See? https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/
It turns out however that civic nationalists are dumb bigots: https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/go4l2m/why_do_christains_think_they_have_a_right_to_be_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/go16r6/christains_deflect_their_selfishness_in_the/
They ignore human suffering because of vague notions and definitions of legal. It died because it was built on a foundation of sand.