Christian Nationalism Isn’t An Op

I keep hearing this in the comments.

I’ve seen it a bunch of times on social media.

Basically, it is secular or pagan White Nationalists insisting that Christian nationalism is some kind of op to subvert White Nationalism. They don’t understand why we are talking about this.

1. We’re talking about it because the trend is driving the news cycle. I write about the news. If it is news, I have probably heard about it and have an opinion on it.

2. We’re talking about it because people like Doug Mastriano and Michael Peroutka have won several Republican primaries.

3. We’re talking about it because Roe v. Wade was recently struck down.

4. We’re talking about it because the Republican base has become radicalized over the past three or four years and the biggest shift by far has occurred among White evangelical Protestants.

5. Most importantly, we’re talking about it because this is where all the action is these days. This is where we are having success. These are the people who are “waking up,” not Reddit suburban atheists.

4 out of 10 Republican voters are White evangelicals.

8 out of 10 Republican voters are Christians.

The overwhelming majority of nationalists and populists in this country are conservative Christians who tend to live in small towns, rural areas and small metros. Those people are the elephant in American politics. Secular White Nationalists or pagan Nationalists are like the flea on the ass of the elephant. Virtually all self-described atheists and pagans skew toward the Far Left.

See, for example, their views on gender:

Abortion:

Homosexuality:

Casual sex and open relationships:

Trans:

In recent years, the elephant in our politics – the White evangelical Protestant base of the GOP – has quietly gotten redpilled on a bunch of issues. These people are telling pollsters under Joe Biden all kinds of things like “journalists” are a bunch of Satan worshipping child molesters or that they would be better off if their state seceded from the Union or that Christians should establish their dominion over our government and culture or that they are armed and ready to fight Civil War 2 or that they are angry about Whites being replaced by non-White immigrants. This is where the GOP base is at these days.

Occasionally, the spotlight shifts back to secular and pagan White Nationalists. This usually happens when someone on 8chan has a meltdown and commits a mass shooting that horrifies the country and spurs calls for gun control or when people with Nazi flags parade around Turning Point USA or when Richard Spencer endorses something like drag queens or another MSNBC talking point in a hot take and it creates a stir in that space that befuddles and amuses outsiders. Some of the people we used to be associated with have gone down the well trod self-marginalizing road of creating their own fake make believe racial religion and walling themselves off from the outside world to ensure their total irrelevance.

I’ve watched the secular Alt-Right space stagnate and decline. I believe it has happened for two reasons. The first is that people who are college educated atheists and pagans – presumably, the target demographic – overwhelmingly skew to the Far Left and so the growth in that swath of the population fuels the Left. Although they are vocal on the internet, the people who identify as atheists and racial nationalists are extreme outliers who have taken an unusual path. The second is that making anti-Christianity such a central part of their message and platform alienates and repulses normies who are otherwise sympathetic to nationalism and share many of the same grievances. Thus, the only people who are still in business and growing are those who for whatever reason (maybe they didn’t read Nietzsche?) are not inclined to do this. The space never recovered from Richard Spencer’s leadership. I’m no fan of Nick Fuentes, but he grasps these dynamics: to grow on the Right, your message has to resonate with Christians.

Once again, Christian nationalism is in the news because White evangelicals have radicalized since the George Floyd riots and because Dump lost the 2020 election and said it was stolen from him and because Joe Biden is pushing them to the Right as Democratic presidents always do. We’re celebrating the development because it is more important to radicalize the elephant in the room – the White evangelical Protestant base of the GOP, which is tens of millions of people who dominate entire states – than to cater to the most absurd ideas of a fringe of anti-Christian White Nationalists with Reddit priors.

Ask yourself … why aren’t we talking about you? Why aren’t you making waves? What happened to the Alt-Right? Maybe it is because it has become much more plausible to imagine Christian normies getting more radical and rightwing than you ever going anywhere and attracting a politically significant following to your laughingstock atheist personality cults like Apolloism? Do you guys get together and reassure yourselves that assuming there are no ops that this is the year that something like Apolloism or Atomwaffen breaks out into the mainstream?

In the real world, the overwhelming majority of people who are pro-White, who are rightwing in their politics, who see themselves as nationalists are Christians. The strength of White racial identity is strongly associated with religiosity to the point where White and Christian are synonymous to millions of normies. This has been true across all of American history. It remains true today. Even the Nazis were Christians. The least religious Whites are far more liberal and antiracist than everyone else. White evangelical Protestants are more rightwing across the board than all other groups. Developments in this world matter a lot more because the Right is so Christian that what happens there shapes the politics of the entire country. We should be engaging with these people and finding common ground with them.

Anyway, it is crystal clear now to all observers – pro-White or anti-White – that the trajectory of White evangelical Protestants, not Trad Caths or Orthobros or the secular Alt-Right or any other extremely online fad, is the thing to watch over the next few years. These people are getting extremely radical in a very short period of time. We need to focus on conducting the revolution in attitudes that is happening there under the surface into something positive. At least that is my belief. These people are persuadable on key issues as their recent interest in secession and the Great Replacement shows.

I’m watching this, laughing at the back and forth, doing a little trolling and cheering it on. I’m enjoying watching one side accuse the other of “Christofascism” which responds and accuses the other side of being a bunch of Satan worshipping pedophiles who are grooming children into homosexuals. I think it makes sense to encourage this polarization and to egg it on and see where it goes. Hopefully, the two sides can be persuaded that they loathe each so much that they should part ways in a peaceful National Divorce.

I hear what you are saying: Christians suck, Christians are dumb and Christianity is a Jewish religion, but Christian nationalism is a gay op to deter Christians from responding to this highly effective pitch you are making that otherwise would be convincing disaffected Christians to flock to your atheist or pagan racial nationalist subculture en masse and join forces with the White shitlibs who are wrecking the country and physically attacking you in the streets to create a White ethnostate. My point is that no one is really listening and that these developments are happening independently in the MAGA space in evangelical churches.

The rising trend of nationalism was different a few years ago. What happened to it? Where did all that energy go? White evangelicals getting more radical under Joe Biden aren’t the reason it all dissipated. It was largely due to one act of self sabotage after another and leaders who weren’t ready for primetime and cracked in front of a national audience.

About Hunter Wallace 12367 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

74 Comments

  1. CN is in ways synonymous with White nationalism, and that’s not a bad thing unless you’re against preserving your race.

    • “CN is in ways synonymous with White nationalism”

      No, integrationist civic nationalism is pretty much the opposite of White nationalism.

  2. Torba is following a Reformed Postmillennial tradition. That tradition forces one to address the JQ, because it sees the little hats as old israel, rejected, now a synagogue of satan, and the Church is the new Israel, God’s Chosen People, out of all nations, races, and languages. And Jesus is the King of Israel, and the whole world.

    That is my position as well, and I admire Torba a lot, even though his site still doesn’t work very well. But it is improving.

    Yes to all Hunter wrote in this post. The evangelicals waking up could form the core of a new nation, free of Washington. I mean, the Republicans aren’t going to do anything for us, never have, never will. But there are other paths possible, depending on the outcome of this war.

    • “The evangelicals waking up could form the core of a new nation, free of Washington”:

      But they aren’t socialists, so not much can change for the better. No real republic (ethno-republic) will emerge from their reactionary mindset. Furthermore Jesus said it is impossible to serve both God and Mammon (the pursuit of gain). Evangelicalism including the Dominionists will certainly not turn the world system upside down. It is just another distraction from seeing and doing the real work that needs to be done.

    • Rangewolf, It’s not just the CR Reformed. There are elements in all of the Trad traditions- Orthodox, Anglican, and RC. They’re not just as overt. But they are there.

      Ever read Andrew Fraser (anglican) Matthew R. Johnson (Orthodox) and Belloc (RC)?

      • Have to thank you, Fr John, for introducing me to Dr Fraser. Listened for a time to Matt Johnson as well. Andrew Fraser recently shared a link to Frank Salter’s lecture at the Anglo Australian Community on Anglo-Majorities Strategies in a Multicultural Context. Some good thoughts, and definitely think antis tend to be reductionist on legacy Americans in the USA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3hFOhaq_PI

    • Is this the first time you have been caught distributing child porn? And you accuse the Irish of sin?

      Wake Up!

      • @Banned For Life— it takes a big man to admit they are wrong, among you kind, only midgets.

        Tell me again you are just like us, tell me Christ killer.

      • Banned For Life—- i think it might be a good idea for you to take a few Krav Maga lessons, just to be on the safe side. You know, what are the odds.

  3. The ‘White Nationalist Movement’ **IS** the ‘divide and conquer op.’

    All these normal white pushing back against anti-whiteness and The Movement wants to discuss swastikas and insult the religion of the majority of white people.

    Then they complain about OTHER people being ‘divisive.’

    But considering the entire movement is run by Jews, Feds, and people married to Jews and Feds, what do you expect?

  4. It would behoove you, and give you better sway over your detractors, to pull figures and quotations from “The WASP Question” by Andrew Fraser. I would presume you have your own copy already. If not, I encourage you to purchase it. It would greatly strengthen your arguments, especially from a crowd that may have read something by Pierre Krebs titled “Fighting For the Essence”.

  5. Grumpy pagans and atheists aside, it’s the fact that this term – “Christian Nationalism” – was basically absent from mainstream discourse (not much in dissident discourse either for that matter) a month ago, and then suddenly exploded in usage. Propelled and echoed (and coordinated too?) by libtard MSM. That’s what makes it seem like a “gay op” more than anything else imo. I get that Roe v Wade being overturned may have prompted hysterical shitlibs to consult *The Handmaid’s Tale* in search of answers, and what they found was “Christian Nationalism”, but we’re all used to how lib MSM manufactures narratives and goes about framing things to suit their ends. Irrespective of it comporting to reality in any way. In this regard Christian Nationalism feels very much like something “they” rolled out to serve a purpose, and not “us.”.

    • It seems like it came out of nowhere, but it really hasn’t. QAnon spread like wildfire in evangelical churches in the Trump years. There was already a lot of support for secession before Trump. These people are just continuing to radicalize with this Seven Mountains theology being the latest thing. Much of Christian nationalism sounds like plain old Baptist services particularly the cross and the flag as symbols.

      • As soon as “Qanon’ (Ezra cohen Watnik) appeared years ago there were hundreds of articles about Q being a new ‘racist Christian theocratic’ movement.

        I wrote a post about an ‘Anarchist’ giving speeches to Google executives about the threat of ‘Neo-Dominionists and right wing conspiracy theories’ from maybe four years ago.

        Apparently they settled on ‘Christian Nationalist’ and OF COURSE both Replicunts and Demoncrats want to downplay RACE as much as possible.

        But everyone knows exactly who they mean. They think attacking us as Christians is better than attacking us as whites.

        Of course it won’t work, the media simply cannot will things into existence anymore. The only people who watch CNN are in hospice care.

  6. Christian Nationalism is an op to subvert what? MAGA? It’s not like there was some growing & thriving white nationalist movement.

    Occam’s rasor is that Christians have been radicalizing over the past couple years, have been pushing American First as a nationalist concept, paranoid Jewish liberal media responded to this with worrying shrieks of “Christian Nationalism”, and now the populist right decided to run with that term. It’s all over the media cuz they’re freaking out about it. They know what a radical exclusionary Christian nationalist movement entails.

    I just don’t see why they would force this as an op. Would they really want conservative normies contemplating the idea of excluding Jews from their society?

    • The premise that “Christian Nationalism is a psy op” comes strictly from atheist WNs who read Nietzsche and think Christianity was invented by the Jews in order to destroy Rome. The nasty habit of quoting single Bible verses out of context gives credence to this theory.

      I was on that train myself for a couple years from 2016-2020. The last two years of radicalization by White Christian normies, plus my own alienation from Alt-MSNBC, reverted me back to form. I’m on record as identifying as a White Christian. Specifically a Protestant with a strange mixture of Southern Baptist and Lutheran (Missouri Synod) roots.

      Like you said in another article, there needs to be a synthesis between Racial Nationalism and Christian Nationalism. A Dominionist nation run by Christians in which Whites are protected and nurtured would be most sufficient.

    • Then Hell is the place for you because Satan promotes racial separation. Heaven is racially integrated and everybody has a glorified body.

      • You really are a brainwashed Fool. How do you know heaven is racially integrated? Were you there to witness it or is that what you read in the jew friendly Scofield bible?

        You must be the laughing stock around you nonWhite pets.
        .

        • IMO if you think heaven is segregated then you are a racist plain and simple. There are only 2 types of people the sheep and the goats. All the sheep will be united together before the throne of God in heaven. Talks about it in Revelation. If you have a problem with it then take it up with God.

          • ” you are a racist plain and simple.” Thanks for the compliment cuck.

            Why are you here? There are plenty of leftist sites for you to virtual signal to your nonWhite pets.

        • Don’t touch the poop. Hasbaradox Slimelord is probably clacking out his lies somewhere in the bowels of the ADL, with a big poster of Pope Noserfatu above his computer.

  7. I support anyone who is actually trying to make life better for white people generationally. Leave it better than you found it. So much is lost in the noise of pomp an circumstance. We are supposed to be standing on the shoulders of our forefathers, not clamoring for attention and adoration. Its time to reset, and religion is one way we can gain a long view as well as a meaningful togetherness with more substance than all of politics combined can offer today.

    Good thoughts, ty for sharing

  8. No moderates no peace!

    About ten years ago, the Left suddenly moved far left, aka Woke.
    Now the Right is moving further right, via Christian Nationalism.
    It’s long overdue, and good news for secessionists.

    (But it’s very bad news for Greg Johnson and his type.
    Trying to be a Gay Jared Taylor isn’t going to work!)

  9. A few thoughts:

    1.) On the subject of the beliefs of atheists, I will just say that they are much more easily manipulated by academia, Hollywood, journalism, etc. since they look to the System for ultimate authority as opposed to preachers and the Bible. This is why different groups of atheists around the world don’t necessarily believe the same retarded crap that American atheists believe. For example, Chinese and Estonian atheists are not significantly woke as far as I know. It matters who is in control of the various propaganda institutions.

    2.) The lukewarm pro-whiteness of White Christians is not ideal for defending our race’s genetic interests. White atheists tend to be more radical in both their anti-Whiteness and their pro-Whiteness. White Christians tend to just hover around neutrality on the issue and will always put their religion first. This is why I believe White atheists to be better recruits even though most start out more anti-White than White Christians. There are other reasons too, but I won’t go into them here.

    3.) The Alt-Right and White Nationalism are not the same thing and never were.

    4.) Religious diversity can almost be as bad as racial diversity when it comes to having a functioning and unified nation.

    5.) Christian Nationalism stems from Christian Dominionism, and the mainstream view in Christianity seems to be that Dominionism is unbiblical. But then again, many Christians don’t read the Bible anyway and have historically found ways to justify all kinds of things that might be said to be unbiblical. So…whatever.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-dominionism.html
    https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-mountain-mandate.html

    6.) All that being said, I find this recent upsurge in Christian Nationalism to be quite entertaining as it is pissing off all the right people. More chaos and more balkanization please.

    • The culture of atheism in the USA seems to be one of radical reaction to everything the fundamentalists stand for including their subconscious ethnocentrism. You will need to uproot this cultural atheism before you can recruit them.

    • @Valerius,

      Interesting points.

      Yoram Hazony is rubbing his hands furiously, and plotting on how to bring in HW’s “based” WECs into his (((National Conservatism))) fold. No doubt it will be as easy as distracting a cat playing with a ball of yarn by tracking a laser pointer on the floor or wall.

      https://www.yoramhazony.org/car/

  10. Peroutka isn’t an op.

    Anyone else in the GOP promoting ‘Christian nationalism’ is.

    This isn’t a way forward for anyone or anything. Mature secular National Socialists and Christian National Socialists and pagan National Socialists have realized that they need to pull together in the same direction years ago. That is the sole way forward, not GOP homosexuality with Judeo-‘christian’ characteristics.

  11. Believe what you want, but Christianity IS a foreign, middle-eastern & semitic religion that has a circumcised rabbi „son of god“ as the central figure. This is not arguable, this is not a „smear“ it is the simple facts. Early Christians had to obfuscate and distort their religion to make it palatable to Europeans outside the multi-racial Roman Empire.

    These supposedly Based ChristNats might want to close the border but how would they feel about getting rid of all the non-White citizens already here, especially the Christian ones? How does one expect them to TRULY turn on their co-religionists? Time will tell, but if we end up with a multiracial „based Non-Whites only“ Christian Theocracy than we frogs are going to simply be jumping out of one boiling pot of water to a slightly less hot one.

    • Quite honestly, it is not something that I give much thought to these days, as I would much rather separate from all the libtards on the coasts.

      I live in one of the blackest parts of the United States. I’m not nearly as repulsed or annoyed by the blacks who live around here as I am by the sort of White people who I see every day on Twitter. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to live in a White ethnostate with those people or even have them around as neighbors. They are hands down the worst people in the country. It is not even close. People like Mike Enoch’s dad who is in communion with the New York Times and who disowned his own son. Wow.

      I’m nearly 42 years old and have been involved in this scene for over 20 years. Never once over the course of two decades have I been bothered where I live by anyone who is black. Unlike those White people on Twitter, they don’t give a shit about my views. They aren’t the ones who show up at our events and engage in violence or who try to get people fired from their jobs or driven out of their churches. They aren’t the people who are Doing The Work.

      • >I live in one of the blackest parts of the United States. … Never once …

        You’ve posted similar anecdotal observations/experiences before; I don’t understand why you see them as relevant — when talking about a demographic group, population averages are what is important — and here the verdict about Blacks as a group is vernichtend — see also an indicator like the human development index (link).

        In the same way, I try to be fair and not judge Blacks as a group solely on what happens in America’s ghetto shitholes — because those locales have experienced both white and black flight, leaving behind (primarily black) genetic detritus.

        But it is also true that, again as I pointed out before, one reason the media pushes societal racism so hard after incidents like the one involving George Floyd is that he is closer to the average for black males in the US (30+% convicted felons) than the media wants Whites to realize: barely made it thru school, only menial employment (when employed), a life marked by drug abuse and crime — to hold the ‘diversity is strength’ narrative together, the media has to come up with a cover story for such group failure: it’s not Blacks as a demographic group, it’s racist America.

        • The hostility and hatred and willingness to commit ideological violence that I see coming from the Far Left dwarfs that which I have seen from non-Whites. This matches my own personal experience as an activist. The people who show up and who were always ready to get violent are the little White brats who join Antifa

          • Sorry (again), but your ‘personal experience as an activist’ is also mostly irrelevant — what’s most important is the demographic future of the country — what about that is not obvious to you?

            I have lost friends and acquaintances, as well as alienated family members, due to my views on race etc.

            I mean, it’s genuinely regrettable that you had unpleasant experiences (especially Charlottesville and its aftermath); and believe me, I do appreciate how disgusting shitlib Whites are (as traitors one of them will get my last bullet) — but as I pointed out to you before, without the foil of ‘diversity’ and anti-racism (civil rights), i.e. a significant population of largely underachieving non-whites, especially Blacks, shitlib Whites would be far less of a problem — all of that is the primary reason Whites were originally pitted against each other, egged on by Jews constantly smearing America and Whites as racist etc — psychologically weak, deracinated Whites looking for meaning in their cubicle-bound lives eat that shit up.

            And to somehow discount the enormous societal impact of a large population of Blacks (approx 45m) who are, on average, abject academic laggards, and hence a tremendous economic drag on the US as a first world country (link), with 30+% of the males being convicted felons, which also imposes huge direct and opportunity costs, as well as causing lots of human suffering and loss of social cohesion and trust, in favor of saying well, my black neighbors don’t bother me, is really juvenile — surely you see this.

          • It is very relevant to me.

            I want to separate from those people on Twitter and Reddit. I don’t want to live in the same neighborhood or country with those people. The hostility and animus and willingness to commit violence against people like me for cultural and ideological reasons that emanates from those people dwarfs the racial tension that I see here.

          • @Brad, I know I’ve been an ass, and have said made some disparaging remarks towards you, and for that I’m sorry. I encourage you to do some serious thinking about completely walking away from the movement all together, and just focus on a normal life around faith, family, and friends. You don’t need this mess brother it’s beneath you. You can see the holes in this crap. I myself have had the same experience living in central Alabama around majority black folks. The misery in my life has all came from White libtards. We can still fight for secession and a Southern nation without a racial agenda. All the folks I hang around now are still proud Southerners and proud of their heritage and cultural. The only difference is we renounced the “Pro-White movement” because it is a cancer as is racism. Consider what I’ve said bro. God Bless

    • When historians discovered the Dead Seas Scrolls we could see what the turmoil in 1st century Palestine was really all about. No doubt the real historical Jesus was part of this, and it was a moral revulsion to the immorality of the Greco-Arab “Herodian” dynasty the Romans imposed upon them and revulsion to the wickedness of the Julio-Claudian dynasty in Rome itself. They despised the incest, divorce, niece marriage of these people along with stuff like guys going around with their junk hanging out like a current offensive Hollywood movie during the so called “Olympics” they had at the time. Mosaic law also was sort of a synthesis of 2nd millennium BC Egyptian medical knowledge of what kind of filthy practices to avoid in order to prevent infectious disease. Seeing the Greco Roman world doing filthy things was also an affront. The real message that got him killed was revolution and independence from Rome, like the Maccabean’s pulled off against the much weaker Salucids 200 years early, unfortunately they didn’t read Sun Tzu’s Art of War where you win a battle first before fighting in and entered into a hopelessly outgunned fight based on religious zeal alone.

      This revolutionary message was toned down in Mark into a “Kingdom of God” and by the time John came around it was completely a new Greek Mystery Religion focused on personal salvation with an afterlife. All the politics was purged and Greeks turned it into their own thing sort of like how hippies created all these fake new age cults very loosely based on Eastern Religion. Some of the real Dead Sea Scroll types fled south away from the Roman sphere (most died in Massada) and continued for several centuries afterwards. They always accepted gentile converts, God Fearers as they were called if they accepted all the Mosaic Laws of hygiene, etc. One of their hangers on 6 centuries later created the one of the largest religions on the planet.

  12. I oppose “Christian nationalism” because I think “no sex before marriage” is a TERRIBLE message for appealing to young men. Granted, more socially conservative societal standards might be beneficial, but you have to make an argument that it benefits them rather than “you have to do this because a 3000 year old Middle Eastern superstition says so.” You’re a former atheist, and perhaps this is why you don’t seem to have noticed that for many self-described Christians it’s all lip service. They identify as Christian in polls, but they don’t attend church and certainly don’t want to live in a society where Christian sexual morality has the force of law.

    “The overwhelming majority of nationalists and populists in this country are conservative Christians who tend to live in small towns, rural areas and small metros. Those people are the elephant in American politics. Secular White Nationalists or pagan Nationalists are like the flea on the ass of the elephant.”

    Counter-Currents SimilarWeb Ranking: 35,940 https://www.similarweb.com/website/counter-currents.com/#overview
    Occidental Dissent SimilarWeb Ranking: 84,375 https://www.similarweb.com/website/occidentaldissent.com/#overview

    You can only claim to have great success by imagining yourself as the leader of the “MLK was a conservative Christian” peanut gallery. I like how you cite Torba’s defense of “Christian nationalism” which explicitly disavows “racial supremacy.” Way to self-refute.

    • Emphasis on former atheist.

      In my youth, I wasn’t religious and was alienated from George W. Bush era evangelical Protestantism – the Prosperity Gospel and Christian Zionist types – but my racial and cultural views were typical of my community. I was a strong social conservative on most issues. It was exposure to the atheist community on the Richard Dawkins forum that initially sent me in the opposite direction from those degenerates.

      The internet isn’t real life. Over 90% of atheists are liberals or moderates. 10% are conservatives and a tiny fraction of those are racial nationalists. Over 95% of atheists support homosexuality which is a good indicator of the relative size of the far right atheist community

      • As far as Christianity is concerned: it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg. Quarrelling about it when the New Religion is rising is Judean Peoples Front – Peoples Front of Judea silliness. All nations and creeds must unite against the evil New Religion and its Abolition of Man.

        But if you want a reality check (and I’m not saying you do) Christian Nationalism is the Alt Right 2.0, meaning a sure fire loser. Christian Nationalism is what you could get after secession not before. Christian Nationalism was totally predictable, and I predicted it, during the collapse of the Alt Right (when it became synonymous with Enoch, Anglin, and Spencer). Why? Religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel (Anglin, Torba etc).

        So what will happen? Christian Nationalism will wax, crest and then wane as it becomes obvious that it cannot deliver victory. (So much for genuine faith!)

        Perhaps then it will be time for Something New.

        Only the new can fight the new.

        • I’m not backing Christian nationalism. I learned my lesson about labels, movements and personalities. I am interested though in seeing how this goes.

  13. Hunter, I sympathize with what you’re saying, and I think a lot of it is true. I think the argument is really over what the word “Christianity” means. What makes Christianity useful to the white race is the fact Christianity was co-opted by Rome and made “masculine” and “worldly.”

    If someone walked into your church today and his testimony about his salvation gave thanks to God for sending him a sign in the sky, a cross carried by angels, that he prayed to Jesus for victory in battle and Jesus gave him the victory, you would assume that person had not quite understood what Christianity was all about. But that was Constantine’s understanding and the church just went along with it.

    Don’t tell me that Christians should logically have any concern with the events of this world when they think there is a heavenly eternal future state. I talked to this boomer lawyer today about Jewish power and he doesn’t care because (1) he financially benefitted from it and (2) Jesus is coming back to turn over the tables again and resolve centuries of grievance any day now. The only reason I didn’t think the guy was Jewish himself was because he wanted to pray a prayer before we ate the lunch he bought me. And he prayed such a fervent Christian prayer, I finally relaxed. No Jew would pray like this guy did.

    Christianity as defined, practiced, and enjoyed by white americans today is not the same religion as the humble religion which spread first among a class of impoverished Jews frustrated by God’s denial of his promises; who were looking to spiritualize the crass materialism of the Old Testament, in which there is no doctrine of a future state.

    My journey to understanding the existence of and insidiousness of Jewish power was through religious study and ultimately the rejection of the possibility of Judaism, Islam, or Christianity being divinely revealed truth.

    I came to realize that I did not actually hate Christianity. The things I didn’t like about it were Jewish in origin! Edward Gibbon set me straight on that.

    And it wasn’t until later I realized that Jews never abandon Judaism, no matter what their actual faith in God is. And I thought that was just sick and illogical. Impossible. How could and why would anyone be so intellectually dishonest? Now I know.

    And despite the fact that Edward Gibbon isn’t talked about nearly enough, his anticlericalism is still firmly within our intellectual tradition. And he emphatically believed that Christianity was a net minus for Rome, despite the fact it may have scored some points too.

    Christianity only spread because it was a religion which was available to and which sought converts from the nations. Christianity is not the vehicle for race. Race is the vehicle for Christianity. Always has been.

    • Very interesting comments. Though I’ve seen it said, by scholars, more than once that Constantine’s moment with the apparition of the cross marked the beginning of Christianity as the imperial religion, I’ve never seen anyone point out what you’ve just now pointed out—and what is far more important—namely, that it marks the beginning of Christianity as it was dominantly understood for nearly the whole history of Christendom and as it is probably still understood by Americans of the Christian Nationalist type. There’s a continuous mental line between Constantine, in the aftermath of that battle, and the high-school football coach, here in America, who’s recently been in the news for his practice of praying, post-game, on the football field.

      I’m reminded of a comment that was addressed to me, here, at Occidental Dissent, about two years ago:

      “[T]he ancient Aryan culture, what you might call the ‘pagan mindset,’ survived strongly until the Reformation and Counter-Reformation gradually completed the full Christianization of Europe over several centuries. The medieval knights and kings with their tribalism, their “glory of war” concept and centrality of honor, courage, and loyalty to the Warband as their primary motivators, were basically indistinguishable from the heathen warriors we see in Beowulf. Beowulf is in fact a good example — an ancient, pre-Christian heroic epic with an awkward veneer of Christian homilies daubed slap-dash and superficially onto it, exactly like the European mind until 1500-1600.

      “So when [religious conservatives] invoke ‘muscular Christianity,’ ‘Crusader Christianity,’ ‘Deus Vult Christianity,’ etc. as a contrast to modern ‘Cuckstianity’ or however they choose to describe it, they’re actually saluting a mindset that was at least 80% pagan, the ancient Aryan warrior culture, and 20% Christian at best.

      “Christianity did eventually reform away the old pagan worldview, through Protestantism (which is far more Middle Eastern than Catholicism, at least the older Catholicism it supplanted), and eventually through modernism.”

      That’s at https://occidentaldissent.com/2020/09/26/randolph-bourne-modernism-and-the-new-woman/#comment-3552652

      Considered in light of that, the contest between the so-called woke and the Christian Nationalists is a contest between two groups of Christians—two understandings of Christianity—and in fact, I’ve noticed a fair amount of more-or-less-express Christian sentiment from woke commenters at one article or another at slate.com.

  14. Yeah these stats only take atheists into account. Pagans of all sorts are few and far between so we aren’t in the stats.

  15. If we’re interested in the preservation of Whites, Christian Nationalism isn’t going to do it. What it will do is provide a rallying cry for the left to attack and for the GOP to gather more non-white socially conservative voters. The end result is still a short end of the stick for white people.

    I’m of two minds. While it would be nice if this radicalization will lead somewhere positive, I don’t know, it can only benefit us in the polarization and distrust it will create. Whites are not becoming more Christian, they are becoming more secular. I see this as a last gasp of Boomer white social conservatism. But my other thought is that this is just another ‘op’ to distract Whites from taking up the fight on the basis of race. Instead of a racial struggle, it’s now a holy war. And the Jews love this type of conflict.

    Whatever the case, Christian Nationalism is going to be a dud because Christianity in America is tied to Zionism. Torba may want to exclude Jews on the basis of theology, but the reality is that this is America where money trumps the Church, and has for decades. This isn’t a Great Awakening, as I said before, it’s a last gasp.

    • It is true that Whites are becoming more secular.

      What do those Whites believe? Take a look at the charts above. 90% of atheists support abortion. 95% of atheists support homosexuality. That’s not even the worst of it.

      These people have a negative sense of White identity. In fact, they are far more hostile to other Whites than non-Whites, which is the reason why those people are attracted to Antifa. Insofar as conservatives complain about Wokeism, that’s who supports it.

      Creating a White ethnostate with those people isn’t an enticing prospect. Just tune in and listen to what they have to say on Twitter. It is like a window into their id. Imagine what it would be like to be married to those people because that is what the experience would be like.

      • I don’t see why people keep saying if we had an ethnostate that we’d have to live with these people. First, I’d think they’d self deport to get away from the ethnostate, and if they didn’t the state would simply throw these people out (or worse depending on their treachery.) That’s how treason was always handled, why should that suddenly change?

        • Correct. The race traitor scum would not want to live with the White sane, and the latter would never tolerate their filthy presence. The victorious Patriots sent the Tories packing into Canada after the revolution. It’s a non-issue.

  16. “These people are telling pollsters under Joe Biden all kinds of things like “journalists” are a bunch of Satan worshipping child molesters or that they would be better off if their state seceded from the Union or that Christians should establish their dominion over our government and culture or that they are armed and ready to fight Civil War 2 or that they are angry about Whites being replaced by non-White immigrants.”

    The only part that doesn’t sound absolutely stupid and psychotic and bound to fail is the part about immigrants.

  17. “Christian Nationalism Isn’t An Op”

    Israeli Jew Yoram Hazony, the leader of “national conservatism,” has been promoting it for years, long before the media started force memeing it in the last two months. He has had several conferences on it, that were some of the biggest Republican party events recently. The homosexual papist and military-industrial complex capitalist Peter Thiel, who funds most of the “dissident right” and fake populists like JD Vance and Blake Masters, has been heavily promoting it.

    If I had to guess, it is part of a larger strategy to prepare America for confrontation with China, similar to how Christians were mobilized through the “counter-jihad” op for the wars during the Bush years. “Christian nationalists” would be very gung ho about fighting the godless Chink commies who were behind the China virus and American economic woes, through the fraudulent election of their Chicom puppet, Joe Brandon.

    I am not anti-Christian, and I would ideally want to live in an explicitly Christian society under theonomy, but it’s important to understand what is actually happening with the Republican party and the people/forces at work trying to shape this movement. Historically, using Christian religious sentiment for political purposes in this country has never really turned out well for Christians. They think they’re getting “Christian nationalism,” but what they really end up getting is radical abolitionism, a few world wars, Reagan revolution, war on terror, etc.

  18. It should also be added that also in Europe, those nationalist forces that are rising energetically, like the Vox in Spain or Mi Hazank in Hungary, are notably friendly towards conservative forms of Christianity, even though they are not absolutely identical with them. The overlap is not perfect but considerable – even the German AfD, which is not a particularly pious bunch, living in a very secularized society, has made such overtures:

    https://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/06/03/are-evangelicals-winning-the-world/

    “Please take it from me, one solidly steeped in in German religious esoterica: The Alliance with 1.3 members should rightly be called “Evangelical” in the American sense of that word! Like their American cousins, these German Evangelicals insist that the Bible, Old and New Testament, should be taken literally as the highest authority in all matters of faith and morality. Oddly enough, Evangelicals on both sides of the Atlantic have an affinity with right-wing and anti-immigrant politics. Dresden in particular has seen its Evangelicals very visible in the ongoing anti-Muslim demonstrations. At the other end of Germany, in Bremen, an Evangelical pastor has attracted media attention by warning against the notion that Christians have anything in common with Islam or Buddhism—they should purify themselves from all this “Muslim nonsense”, and not put up statues of the Buddha, that “fat old gentleman”.”

  19. Survey any “wignat,” and their responses to those questions would make the MIGAtard evangelical Christians look like tattooed, multi-pierced, and blue haired college zoomer in comparison.

    The stereotype of evangelical White Christians being denser than a black hole is well deserved. These people view the Noah’s Ark Creation Museum the way that National Socialists and other right side of the Bell Curve WNs regard The American Museum of Natural History.

    For all their “Hail Jesus” and “Hallelujah,” they sure as f*ck didn’t do shit to stop the estimated 63 million abortions, since Roe V, Wade in 1973. Only Eric Rudolph followed his fervent Christianity to action. That seems incredibly pathetic for holy roller bible thumpers that consider abortion murder and an insult to their creator. It would appear that White evangelical Christians are more bark than bite. No wonder the jews hold them in such low regard because they understand what toothless tigers WECs truly are.

    In case any of those based Trump and Qtards that love them some Israel and are reading OD, I have included your favorite charity’s televised grift.

  20. Folks can and will have their opinions on Christian Nationalism. The term is new, but certainly the sentiments behind it aren’t.

    Things get gay and autistic pretty fast once people start arguing about labels and taxonomy.

    Whats inarguable is that the radicalization of Whitey is happening because of whats being done by the elites on the other side. Mass replacement through immigration, trans, queers, systemic corruption and the one sided legal system, hostile media, the covid gayop thats wrecked the economy, inflation and the ubiquitous never ending calls for war abroad.

    Its happening because of their mistakes, hubris and neuroticism and not for anything we have done as a movement.

    Show some humility and just stop trying so hard for a change. We aren’t the vanguard of anything. Our opinions aren’t binding on reality, and people are gonna do what they want.

    Paganism isn’t gonna suddenly become mainstream in its current forms at least. Atheism either because everyone hates atheists for their smug condescending ambivalence to the harm their bullshit worldview causes normal people of faith.

    It doesn’t matter if you think Christianity is an alien Jewish religion. Basically nobody agrees with you and a thousand plus years of White European culture we all agree is way preferable to this shitty empire has been built on that alien religion now so what actually is even your point?

    Apollonianism is a meme and Spencer is gay.

    Nobody wants to hear about hitler and national socialism.

    The White middle/working class has absolutely no regard for your autism and you don’t factor into anything it does. We are a few dozen here talking about a hundred million White Americans with their own ideas, almost all of which are better than the stupid shit espoused here because at least their common sense gets them through the day, pays their bills, get their kids to school and makes the country function while nothing here in this echo chamber ever motivates anybody to do anything but drink and effort post.

    Quit taking yourselves so seriously for a minute and you’ll realize nobody else does either. Then you can enjoy the relief of not feeling like its your personal responsibility to solve the worlds problems.

    Go take a shower you sweaty fucking nerds.

  21. “I’m watching this, laughing at the back and forth, doing a little trolling and cheering it on. I’m enjoying watching one side accuse the other of “Christofascism” which responds and accuses the other side of being a bunch of Satan worshipping pedophiles who are grooming children into homosexuals. I think it makes sense to encourage this polarization and to egg it on and see where it goes. Hopefully, the two sides can be persuaded that they loathe each so much that they should part ways in a peaceful National Divorce.”

    This is the path i will follow myself, ALL polarization and divide is good and we should fuel this on all we can
    Add to this the coming complete destruction of all Federal forces on the ground in Europe and Asia and we can look at a natural progressing into union disolvement and our own “Deo Vindicie”

  22. “Christo-fascist” well, that’s a term I haven’t heard since the early 90s. Back then we had a hipster liberal teacher too many of us thought was cool and he had all these east coast leftist magazines we’d read and they’d always harp on “Christo-fascism”. This was the heyday of the original release of “The Handmaid’s Tale” and fear of Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, Robert Bork, and the Cowboy President. They even whipped up an original “Handmaid” movie starring Natasha Richardson (who died shortly afterwards in a skiing accident in Canada probably because their socialized medicine can’t afford medivac helicopters to get her to the ER ASAP instead of hours upon hours by car.) Robert Duval and Faye Dunaway were in it too as evil Puritan types. I remember noticing that there was an obsession with homosexuality in these magazine articles along with a huge number of “secular” authors mentioning their misguided religious “jewish upbringing” so when the internet came about I already knew in some way these people were disproportionately attracted to the far left. One of them allegedly reviewing movies went into a diatribe about how “Corporate America” was conspiring to “divide us” and went on listing all these grienvence groups we have now become so familiar with in identity politics. Pushing it way past my point of believability when the author listed the strange musings about “dividing HIV positive from HIV negative,” WHAT??? Where they heck did that come from, must have been a queer with aids writing that? If the author made it to the mid 90s when they got their drugs for their anally inflicted death sentence no doubt he is now adding “monkey pox positive vs. monkey pox negative” to his leftist drivel.

  23. Re Hunter’s comment – ‘Joe Biden is pushing them to the Right as Democratic presidents always do’ –

    Too broad I think, tho true enough for middle-class-negative Biden, Obama, and 70s Jimmy Carter –

    But Dem Presidents have done ok if there was middle class economic benefit, which Biden, Obama and Carter didn’t supply

    Take Bill Clinton, as seen in Al Gore nearly winning (or actually winning but being cheated, some say) … Clinton was personally a cad but there was economic uplift due to global credit expansion, not sustainable but worked in late 90s

    JFK and early Lyndon Johnson also were hugely popular, both had economic headwinds, and people loved things like Medicare getting started (too bad they didn’t fix health care more comprehensively) … also the same thing with Franklin Roosevelt starting Social Security etc

  24. HW, I think we’re pretty much on the same page.

    All of this is going to happen because of forces well beyond our control, so its best to chill and see what comes of it.

    I’ve got zero interest in being roped into another gayop, or autistic circle jerk, whichever the Alt Right ultimately was.

    • Bingo.

      I’m not joining movements or tagging myself with another label ever again. All I am doing is observing this and offering my thoughts on it

      • What label did you tag yourself with before? — what was the main reason for your earlier interest in the Alt-Right? — did you just want to prevent statutes from being toppled, e.g. in Charlottesville? — I ask because today you don’t seem particularly interested in the racial question, nor do you appear to comprehend its importance.

        Suggestion: focus more on the core issues raised by the Alt-Right movement, and less on the later drama and failings of some of the key personalities involved.

        Per my comments, I’m (probably rather obviously) mostly interested in the race question (which is of course inseparable from statute-toppling) — and there, absolutely nothing has changed — in fact, judging by the events of 2020, it is worse than ever, and for Whites will only worsen from here.

        • I’m thinking of White Nationalism and the Alt-Right.

          I tagged myself with the former label ages ago, self-doxxed and now I am associated with it every time some insane person goes out and commits a mass shooting. Then there was the Alt-Right, which wasn’t exactly my cup of tea, but I backed because it was close enough and because I had such a negative view at the time of the fractious infighting in the movement. I ended up saddled with the fallout from Charlottesville. I supported Richard Spencer on his road to nowhere. The damage it caused to our cause and to our own people who followed him on his road to his Waterloo bothers me.

          Right now, I think it is just to avoid tagging myself with labels and joining internet based movements because it always seems to end up with random people with their own agenda and beliefs harming those who do.

          • >The damage it caused to our cause

            Yes, Charlottesville was something of a debacle, but honestly only because the media is so corrupt (biased) and was so dishonest in the way they reported the events (as the Heaphy inquiry pretty clearly showed) — I could say the same about the judicial aftermath and the legal establishment: the disgraceful railroading of Fields, the prosecution of participants for defending themselves, the disgusting and mean-spirited Jew SLAPP civil lawfare.

            And regarding all that, as everyone has seen little has changed: CRT, BLM, Rittenhouse, Arbery, etc.

            But it seems to me, including anecdotally, that awareness and even racial consciousness is rising among Whites; you have, I believe, posted some data that seems to confirm this, e.g. belief in the ‘Great Replacement’ — I think the Alt-Right played a role in that, as its successors (the Alt-Right, per se, is kaput) continue to do, despite your disillusionment.

            I hope this is because, as I suggested, people are concentrating on the issues, and ignoring the drama and foibles/weaknesses of certain individuals — various movements around the key issues (e.g. PA in the UK) are well-established and growing.

  25. I’ve argued for years that an essential characteristic of what is considered to be “White” people, necessarily includes a Christian identity, either overt or just culturally Christian and is not simply a race of people, as that doesn’t account for the fact that we are attacked constantly by white atheists and secular woke PMC’s on the basis of values that derive from our understanding of Christianity, a poignant example being the sanctity of life and a corresponding revulsion to abortion.

    I don’t see any contradiction here.

    There is inarguably a spiritual aspect to what is happening to heritage America, and the subversion of the Church is an integral part of that.

    I’ve got no issue living the rest of my life under a resurgent theocratic dominion that pushes back against the direction of these cultural trends and reasserts some order and virtue.

    Obviously, I won’t put up with puritans imposing things on me. Doubtful there’s much they would try to. Too many low hanging fruit elsewhere.

  26. So-called “Christian” nationalists (such as evangelical Sunday School teacher Mike Pompeo) who are a very large percentage of the U.S. population, as Hunter says, instead of following Jesus’s teaching always condone or support (and many directly participate in) all of the U.S.’s hot, cold, economic, terrorist proxy and hybrid imperialist wars that preserve their bourgeois standard of living by subduing and exploiting the rest of the world.

  27. QAnon was also an op. This is just sad.

    Also, “Christian Nationalists” didn’t overturn Roe V. Wade. Establishment Republicans did. It came out of nowhere because it’s just a politically-irrelevant shot in the arm to the flailing Republican party.

    • QAnon was stupid and we made fun of it for years, but it isn’t a bad thing that media and academic elites are seen by these people as Satan worshipping pedophiles. The important thing is understanding that those people are bad and should be removed from power

  28. Well let’s acknowledge the elephant in the movement. Machiavelli advised a ruler never to go against
    the dominant religion of his people even if he had to give mouth service to something he did not believe in. There is a certain group that has an infatuation with a new religious philosophy called Cosmotheism which is guaranteed to turn off 90% of the very people that hope to win. They put out great material, but their religious aspect is keeping them from achieving a mass movement. Worshiping an evolutionary force remind people to much of Scientology. It’s a no brainer as regards achieving mass support.

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