John Zmirak: Christians Learned the Limits of the State and the Rights of Believers by Trial and Error

August 1, 2022 Hunter Wallace Uncategorized 64

The world has been turned upside down.

John Zmirak makes more sense these days than Richard Spencer.

The Stream:

“I am nearing the end of my series on the roots of religious liberty and gun rights in Anglo-American history and Christian anthropology. Soon I will be assembling this series into a book, to come out this fall in time for the midterm elections.

If you’ve followed my argument, you’ll see that by now nearly all the pieces are in place, for the founding of a political order based on ordered liberty, here on our shores. Over the course of centuries, through many arguments and crises, Christians had explored the full implications of the biblical view of the person in politics. …

As we have seen, citizens organized militias around local churches, which saw their contribution to defending public order and safety as part of their mission. In this sense, “Christian Nationalism,” the dog-whistle leftists are using to terrify the ignorant today, stood at the very beating heart of America at its birth. Armed citizens, organized at their churches, not licensed or controlled by colonial governors, carved the 13 colonies out of the wilderness, and would come to demand their independence from Britain. We may need them again soon, to protect our freedom today.

In the next segment, we’ll explore how those citizens militias were crucial to the resistance of colonial citizens to a new effort to control, tax, and dominate the colonies by a British parliament in need of money and eager to flex its muscles.”

Zmirak is also right about “trans.”

“All that by way of background to my central argument, which I’ll lay out here in clear, inexorable steps.

  1. Transgenderism is incoherent and its claims are literally meaningless. Its political demands are arbitrary and shifting precisely because it is grounded in mental confusion, willful obfuscation, and a pride-driven hatred of God’s creation. That is, of material reality, the world, and our human place in it.
  2. Transgenderism demands, with the force of a powerful Oligarchy which includes social media giants and the State, that we repeat lies and force ourselves to believe them. It further demands that we strip people (real, biological women) of God-given rights they really have — in order to confer fake, made-up rights on fake, transgender women.
  3. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, period. Like anorexia and bulimia, it entails a person accepting and embracing false claims about his body, then engaging in self-destructive behavior as a result. We are naturally repulsed when we see the starved bodies of anorexics, and likewise when we see the botched, grotesque results of transgender surgery and hormones. This is natural, and good. It does not mean we intend violence toward the victims of these disorders. Nor that we fail to love them as Christians should.
  4. Real love for people suffering from gender dysphoria would not entail encouraging them to mutilate their bodies and medicalize their entire lives — becoming addicted to dangerous hormones to force their mortal frames to conform (if unconvincingly) to their mental delusions. If your daughter were anorexic, the loving thing would not be to agree with her that she looks fat, even though her ribs are showing like a concentration camp victim’s.
  5. Real love for children would not entail encouraging them to develop gender dysphoria, by making it fashionable, inserting inappropriate material into school lessons, or otherwise “grooming” and sexualizing them. But this is what Transgenderism demands …”

Meanwhile, the Nietzschean Apolloism of Alt-MSNBC, which is supposedly the alternative to Christian nationalism, has degenerated into a more pathetic version of Reddit.

64 Comments

  1. If you Christians were half as excited about the millions coming across the border, as you are about gays, the nation might be able to survive.

    • The people who oppose the Great Replacement and who want to restrict immigration are also Christians. It is atheists who are for it.

      • So let me get this straight…you think all Christians are against letting parasitic 3rd worlders in, but all atheists support it? I’d say most Christians want them coming in, since they are God’s children, too, and you’re supposed to help them.
        Do you consider anyone of any other religion to be an atheist, because they don’t believe in the Jewish God?

        • No.

          I believe over 90% of atheists are basically Redditors in their politics. They are concentrated on the most culturally degenerate extremes of the progressive Left

          White evangelical Protestants strongly opposed illegal immigration. Sure, there are cucks like Russell Moore and David French, but those people are an out of touch minority. I posted the exact numbers in the previous article.

          • LOL Did you go on Reddit and do some reading, and come off there and decide that these people are WN atheists? OMG.

            White Evangelicals do NOT oppose mass immigration. It’s not even about the legal aspect, and since the border is wide open, it’s not illegal for half of Nicaragua to walk across into ours.
            Most Evangelicals ARE out of touch with reality. They’re in a cult, for pete’s sake.

            Christianity clearly states that all men are your brothers. You cannot have a White nation in a Christian world . That isn’t what Christians want. They think everyone is an American.

          • Even the true catholics oppose to immigration, christianism (which is not the only solution) could be a thing that unite people culturally european, western and White. I remember Charlottesville, there were some members with shields with writing “Deus vult”(crusader motto).

          • There have ALWAYS existed traitorous, collaborating-with-infidels Dhimmi elements among Christians (people who like Esau put their paycheck above their birthright), even back in the days of the original crusades. When Arab Muslims burst into the coasts of the Mediterranean in the 7th century AD, the local Levantine “Christians” were soon providing them with know-how and helping them to build navies by which they could raid the northern shores of the Mediterranean.

            A large part of the Ottoman army that conquered Constantinople in 1453 were Christian auxiliaries from the Balkans, sent by the local rulers to serve their overlord, the sultan.

            Et cetera, et cetera.

          • Then why haven’t the nuts been cut off of Lutheran Refugee Resettlement Services et al.?

            And being opposed to “Illegal immigration” simply isn’t enough. We have too many “paperwork Americans”, anchor babiies etc. here and many millions more in the works. And plenty of them are already in positions of real power and influence as well. Pedro de Alvarado lays it out pretty well over at Vdare.

            https://vdare.com/articles/beware-of-overclass-immigrants-who-want-to-dispossess-white-america

          • For the record, I’m not trying to run a tag team on you with Pilot, but things really need to spelled out.

          • @Flaxen No problem, that’s good information. I see the effects of “immigration” almost daily, and I don’t see many of the MAGA/Christians opposing it. In their eyes, we are all “God’s children”.

      • Christians make a LOT of money from the refugee racket — a majority of the largest organizations (there are many smaller ones as well) involved in resettlement are Christian (link) — while they dishonestly advertise themselves as ‘charities’, and the media obligingly goes along with it, they aren’t ‘charities’, they are government contractors — for many of these ‘charities’, almost all of their revenue comes from the government, and typically a significant number of their management personnel have six figure compensation packages — they also spend lobby the government to make sure the refugees keep coming.

        • Don’t get me started on ELCA.

          The churches are just institutions. They have been infiltrated and subverted like every other institution. The worst institutions are the media and the universities which are the least religious

        • Yep. Just because some organization is “Non-profit” doesn’t somebody ain’t haulin’ an’ ass-load of money to their personal accounts.

          • I read about some guy who made over 300k in one year, selling TVs to the government for the “processing camps” for the illegals. He was proud of it. Probably worked for one of those NGOs or Nonprofits.

      • Whites are already the minority. Immigration restriction is not really as much of an important issue going forward because the great replacent already happened. What’s much more important going forward is ensuring that Whites can thrive as a minority. “Christian nationalism” is not at all equipped to address that issue because, as an egalitarian conservative liberal (see above ideal of “ordered liberty”) civic nationalist idea, it uncritically accepts the premises of equal rights, MLK’s dream, and so on, while advocating assimilation into a broad civic “American” culture based on those premises. As you can see in the article linked above, this man even appeals to “women’s rights” as an argument against trannies, just reinforcing feminist positions.

        Conservative liberals can’t help but reinforce most of the progressive positions because they retain almost all of the same premises, just refusing to carry those premises to their logical conclusions. At least in this way, progressives are actually much more consistent than conservative liberals. As an example, CRT is the logical conclusion of racial egalitarian premises. Progressives employing CRT are consistent in their egalitarian premises, whereas conservative liberals are not. If one accepts racial equality, then the glaring inequalities in racial achievement imply that some form of racial discrimination is happening. If that racial discrimination cannot be pinpointed in discrete instances that can be individually addressed to solve the problem, then it must be diffuse and saturated throughout the culture, therefore systemic racism and White supremacy. If one accepts that racial discrimination is wrong and that the outcomes of racial discrimination are unjust, as conservative liberals also do, then something like CRT is the solution to redress this implied discrimination (which the conservative liberal agrees is unjust). The conservative liberal, while accepting all of the premises that result in CRT, proposes no explanation or solution to these problems. You can find similarly consistent explanations for many of the other positions of progressives, on things like immigration, feminism, etc. based on shared premises held by conservative liberals.

        • The people who are most opposed to the Great Replacement and who are most sympathetic to secession are the “Christian nationalists.”

          • That’s good. I agree that this population is potentially the most open to anything good. But it’s important to distinguish between the leadership and the followers. The followers are fine. They are dupes, but they have fine moral compass. I’m personally not very tolerant of dupes, so I get overly judgemental and harsh in criticizing them, but most of my criticism should be properly aimed at the leaders.

            The leadership who would be stepping in front in the form of what the media is calling “Christian nationalism” is not fine or good. That’s the op, in the leadership. We saw how this went with Trump. Bad leadership, malleable followers, then you end up with Black felons released from prison and buttsex in Botswana while everyone claps and we sigh and roll our eyes. Or you can go back to previous movements like the Tea Party. Same deal. Or even Bush before that. Again, same thing. Horrible policy, everyone claps. The people positioned to be leadership over this malleable group, and set to capitalize on the “Christian nationalism” label, I don’t think are good. The Hazony and Thielites, the evangelical pastors, the Zionists, the old patriot cold warriors, the right-neoconservatives (e.g. Claremont- some people mistakenly believe that neocons have all defected to the left, but I believe there has been a schism between what I have been calling left and right neocons, which is actually more about pragmatic strategic differences than doctrinal differences).

            These guys don’t want to solve the problems, and many of them want to create even worse, potentially disastrous problems. And the mostly well intentioned followers end up, once again, used and then thrown to the curb or left holding the bag and blamed for the bad leadership. See: White rednecks being blamed for “islamophobia” after the Jewish media stoked it for years, MAGApedes black bagged and taken to political prisons after rioting for Trump, “tea baggers” dumped in the landfill after the business cons get what they want out of them.

        • @Dart If you think the leftists and nonwhites are going to treat us like we treated them, think again.
          They will never give us “minority status” or give us the privileges afforded to the other groups.
          Their goal isn’t fairness. Their goal is to get rid of us.

          • I don’t believe they will. Not unless Whites work for it. Which they won’t if they continue falling for stupid crap like “Christian nationalism.”

          • @Dart Agree. Moreover, Christians won’t go up against the enemy, because they won’t acknowledge who is oppressing them. Big elephant in the middle of the room.

    • It is atheists who are for it.

      That’s ridiculous. White Nationalists who are atheists are for nonwhite immigration? Emphatically NO! Christians as devout Christians are commanded by their GOD, to be raceblind. It’s their belief that all are God’s children. Now a WN Christian — he is disobedient to the teachings in the buy bull. Even the Irish and Italian hater Browning knows that.

      • You are free to look at any poll which shows what atheists think about White identity, the Great Replacement, immigration, etc.

        It is true that there are White Nationalist atheists who oppose Third World immigration. They are extreme outliers. The overwhelming majority of atheists are anti-White Reddit libtards.

        • Why are you conflating White Nationalist atheists with liberals? White nationalists have nothing to do with liberals, atheist or not. What do you mean by extreme outliers? I doubt there’s EVEN ONE White Nationalist who approves of nonwhite immigration. What the fuck are you talking about? You’re talking about Christian Nationalists. Make Nationalism Christian instead of White Nationalism, and it’ll get fucked up just like any other farce they lead. Keep it White Nationalism, PERIOD!

          • I’m saying that atheists who are racial nationalists are extremely uncommon. At least 95% of atheists end up as either progressives, liberals or libertarians

          • Sorry, I don’t wear my atheism on my sleeve, and I doubt if other right wing atheists do either. Leftists are in a world of their own. So, I would question the veracity of the polls where you get your numbers concerning the number of non-believers on the right. Polls taken by jews or leftists aren’t worth the virtual pad they’re written on.

          • @DICARLO His polls come from You.Gov and the Pew Foundation. I don’t trust polls.
            He thinks WNs who are atheists, are going to put “atheism” first, which they don’t at all.
            Real WNs put race first, and if someone is Christian or other, if they truly are pro white, that’s what matters.
            I’ve seen so many of these religious groups giving aid to the illegals. Busses, vans, and tons of money. Can’t have the children starve!! Make sure they have enough TVs until they can be flown into some other American city.
            The Pope himself is all for immigration. He welcomes Muslims into Europe, and he sent money for aiding illegals getting into the US. The Marxist pope.
            Christians believe all men are God’s children, so there’s no way most Christians are against immigration.

      • Exactly! I leave the preaching to the Christians. My message is promoting White Nationalism. Christians can believe what they want. I don’t care, but when they think they can take over White Nationalism, a cult that believes “we’re all god’s children”, then I would be remiss not to point it out.

  2. all fcking people who say that embracing LGBTQ is pro-white, pro-aryan, pro-nationalism are surely fraud or at least have a lot of confusion in their mind. I repeat what i have already said on this website: “surfing the wave” is dangerous, because when the wave breaks against the rocks, the surfer gets hurt too.

    • I don’t really get caught up in the whole gay thing. It’s a side thing, and not the biggest thing to make as a goal.
      There is one goal, and all of this other stuff is just going down rabbit trails.

      • With all respect i think that LGBT thing is dangerous and sadly important. Our opponents are insanely obsessed with this thing and it has reached worrying levels with transgender for children and othe madness.

        • But the reason it’s a problem, and other things are problems, is because the Marxists are in power, and we don’t haver power right now. If pro-Whites were in power, a lot of those problems would be gone, because the Zios and their traitorous whites wouldn’t be running the show.

          • Of course, this is a big issue because we have madmen in power and as long as they are in power it will continue to be a problem.

  3. Masonic “liberty” is the reason we’re in this boat. Some degree of tolerance is necessary, but masonic “liberty” (as opposed to Christian liberty) is about WHO is permitted to exercise power. And in this system it’s not us. Roy Moore is a threat to their liberty and their country (not our country, as they see it) We can see that whenever the Left suffers some sort of setback, the way they flip out about “democracy” and start making threats. Settled law is nothing to them until it’s THEIR settled law. Then the moment they can push something through reversing a hundred years of precedent it becomes “eternal” – for them. For them the Supreme Court is a way to circumvent the standard process of legislation, so long as it agrees with them it can do anything, now matter how absurd. A bare majority on the Supreme Court, when it decides in their favor, suddenly creates what they believe is a new perpetual order. (Obergefell). They care about their “justice” and their “liberty” (for example, the freedom of New England Yankees to sponsor John Brown). As for the Christians, “Repressive Tolerance” is their “freedom.”

  4. Good grief, the insanity of our present age staggers the mind when one bothers to stop and think about all the crazy things that are occurring within this once great nation. I believe we are under God’s judgment. As it so often is, God’s judgment doesn’t necessarily manifest itself in ways that are visually stupendous, but often in more subtle ways – namely, the removing of restraining grace upon a society. Under such scenarios, human depravity is given complete freedom to do as it wishes. No restraints. No boundaries.

    In other cases, He sends a “deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness” (2 Thess. 2:11-12).

    When one looks at the level of perversity and debauchery our society consumes, including the willingness to be believe and accept the most bizarre and unnatural things (Trannies, the acceptance of men as women, drag queen story hours, and the list goes on), one can only conclude that we have indeed been sent a “deluding influence” that has captured the minds of far too many Americans.

    By the way, it’s surprising how deep in the gutter Richard Spencer has fallen. And that Twitter quite above by Blood Vanguard is downright weird.

    • If God really has sent down a “deluding influence”, then the trannyfags & all the other shitlib freaks aren’t truly responsible for their filth because they’re merely God’s butt-puppets – and those of us who somehow manage to resist this heaven-sent delusion while still suffering from living in the disgusting madhouse are unjustly suffering victims.

  6. Spencer and the Apollo retards don’t represent secular White Nationalism any more than Nick Fuentes and Andrew Anglin represent Christian Nationalism. Remember when Nick Fuentes got caught looking at tranny porn?

    • Yeah.

      I’ve never thought of Fuentes or Anglin as being Christians. I don’t see it. I see them trying to appeal to a Christian audience

    • I can’t help but think that was a joke. Fuentes is a comedian. They assign a lot of crap to him, but he’s super religious. No one can say if someone isn’t sincere or not, either. He has the best oratory around for making points about what’s wrong.

      People on this site don’t like him, but they rub elbows with philosemites, race-mixers, and Zionists. Fuentes doesn’t do that.

        • He’s half Italian. His father looks white, maybe is Castizo. But he isnt advocating race-mixing. He isn’t advocating philosemitism, or promoting Zionism, like a lot of the fake white groups do.You make decisions on things people say about him, but I bet some “friends” would do that to you, too, if it would either get them out of trouble or give them money.
          If you’re more for Christianity than race, you ought to be backing him up, because he’s a strict Catholic, and wants people to wait till marriage and then have families. He’s putting this out there for young people today, because so many have never thought they could say no, and so many are sick of the pressures and abortions, etc.

      • @Pilot,

        Fuentes and his sycophants are supporting (((Laura Loomer))) for US Congress in–wait for it–Florida.

        Nick is also as tight as two coats of paint with Alex Jones who is a self- admitted zionist and extrelly philosemetic.

        Fuentes has alienated a lot of his older followers by his continued associations with Milo, Jones, and Loomer.

  8. Re: “you think all Christians are against letting parasitic 3rd worlders in, but all atheists support it?”

    You should ask “What makes ‘3d worlders’ leave their homes and come here?” Answer: It is primarily Imperialism (capitalism) that makes “3d world” countries 3d world, causing millions of downtodden and consumerised to flee to, or be drawn to the global imperial centre. Christian principles such as unselfish brotherly love (Golden Rule, etc.) oppose the selfish, parasitic, anti-moral basis of capitalism/imperialism. Nominal Christians however may be more in tune with Mammon (the pursuit of gain) than God.

    Regarding “Christian nationalism”:

    Only NOMINAL Christians participate in government, and often take the sword. Christians, as such, do not participate in government or take the sword, but their living example of the principles of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the heart of the Gospel, is the light that shines in a community, country and world, giving hope of mercy and forgiveness, distinguishing right from wrong, good from evil, and making “Christian” government (and Christian nationalism) possible.

    Re: “Embracing LGBT is pro-Aryan”:

    The ranks of Aryan Khazarkrainian militias are said to be full of homosexuals, and Bandera himself preached it. One sin leads to another.

    • @ Merthyr Oh for pete’s sake…you think the issue is WHY foreigners come here?? They come here, because the US gives them everything they cannot have in their countries, from a home, food, utilities, all of the free medical care they could ever want, free Social Security, free Medicaid or Medicare…it’s not OUR freaking fault their countries are in shambles!!!
      The US pours millions into these countries in aid, every year, too, besides private charities.
      They are not coming here for the same reasons that Europeans came here long ago.
      Your business of applying love is naive and dangerous. I think some of you are sitting back on the ranch or in mansions, and you just have to come up with some kind of idea here.

  9. Our elite is at least about 50% Jewish.
    Jews want to be included.
    They want a left that overlooks their neocolonial oppression of Palestinians.
    And they want a progressive or global conservative right if you will.
    A broad conservatism capable of accommodating all races, ethnicities and cultures, especially theirs.
    One that focuses on the economy, on deregulation and lowering taxes rather than on society and culture, hence Reaganism and neoliberalism.

    The war on drugs and crime is perhaps okay, because drugs and crime are maybe a choice, a mutable as opposed to a fixed identity, but conservatism should somehow be pro-queer, because according to them being queer is not a choice (and helps reduce population), neither is being a woman (well, at least it wasn’t up until 5 minutes ago, I guess if you don’t like the way society treats your sex you can always change it *shrugs*), and being nonwhite, or at least being ‘racialized’ is most definitely not a choice, and conservatives shouldn’t discriminate against anything people didn’t choose, because that would be unequal, unfree and just plain mean.

    And insofar as we’re Christian and political, let’s be ‘Christian Zionists’, hence HW, W and neoconservatism, protect Israel and its borders, forget America, Canada and other western nations.
    And this is why conservatism is so diluted, so neutered.
    It’s a corporate, Zioconservatism, one that serves the interests of corrupt banks, corporations, politicians and Jews first and foremost.
    And even the left must be made to serve these things, establishment and largely pseudoantiestablishment politics like Trumpism caters to them.

  10. Here’s a copy of the email that recent converts to Christian Nationalism will be sending:

    A mother asked President Bush,

    “Why did my son have to die in Iraq?”

    Another mother asked President Kennedy,

    “Why did my son have to die in Viet Nam?”

    Another mother asked President Truman,

    “Why did my son have to die in Korea?

    Another mother asked President F.D. Roosevelt,

    “Why did my son have to die at Iwo Jima?”

    Another mother asked President W. Wilson,

    “Why did my son have to die on the battlefield of France?”

    Yet another mother asked President Lincoln,

    “Why did my son have to die at Gettysburg?”

    And yet another mother asked President G. Washington,

    “Why did my son have to die near Valley Forge?”

    Then long, long ago, a mother asked…
    “Heavenly Father, why did my Son have to die
    on a cross outside of Jerusalem?”

    The answers to all these are similar —

    “So that others may have life and dwell in peace,
    happiness and freedom.”

    This was emailed to me with no author
    and I thought the magnitude
    and the simplicity were awesome .

    Love to All

    IF YOU DON’T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS,
    PLEASE, FEEL FREE…
    TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM !!!!!

    • What do people think will happen when they sign up for the military? Do they think they will never be sent somewhere to fight?
      Don’t they read any history, to see that the US has been used by another country, to engage in continued conflicts and do the dirty work?
      Do they think politicians and leaders really care?

    • @GEORGEREDLEAF == you’re an ASSHOLE!

      The US military is a rainbow coalition of woke, fags, trannies, niggers, third world types and demoralized Whites. The crooked ass antiwhite US gov fights Wars for jews, Oil Companies, and the Military Industrial Complex. Money. That sums it up

      • Guys, I did not post that trash because I agreed it with it! God forbid. It’s just an example of the kind of stuff that Christian Nationalism is capable of being co-opted with.

        • Sorry George. I misunderstood your meaning, and like you, I understand that Christian Nationalism would always put the accent on Christian first, and Nationalism second, and that’s why it will never come to be. Again, I apologize for the misunderstaning.

        • You should preface it first so we know. That being said, you’re right. But they still offer up their sons to die for Israel.

  11. I’m not pro or con on the CN thing because I don’t know what their true agenda is beside mouth service right now. If it turns out like the alt right it will be a complete failure.

    • Exactly! It’s just bullshit. Something the jews cooked up to get non-believing White Nationalists and Christians at other’s throats. Those who choose to be Christians — have at it. I really don’t care, but don’t put it in my face.

      • It’s the same talking points from the old Moral Majority and Religious Right. It’s only about religion, not being white. So they won’t make any difference. If Christianity is attacked, it’s because it’s another way to attack Whites. If most Whites were Buddhists, they’d attack them that way too.

  12. half of his Hunter’s putative friends will be horrified by his thoughts on race

    May GAWD forgive him! 😀

  13. @OCW Since this is about Christianity and not about race, they will not do a thing. They will continue to adopt nonwhite babies. As long as they believe we are all God’s children, they won’t do a thing. Unless people put race first, nothing will change, and most Christians don’t care about race at all.

    • Not only don’t they care about race, the overwhelming majority of them worship the jews and believe the jews are god’s chosen people.

  14. I know Evanjewlickals, since I had/have them in my own family, and used to be one myself. 20 years ago, my Christian fanatic maternal aunt (wife of a preacher, who of course was far more of a preacher than he was) & her daughter came to visit and they got into a disagreement with my mother & I about the tidal wave of mexcrement: They said “Oh, we love to have them here! We want them to join our church!” and “The only land I care about is the little piece I personally own.”

  15. So, the personnel of the political parties who control the government are getting what they’re buying from the Lutheran Resettlement services.

    The problem with the Federal Givernment is that it’s personnel are progressive liberals(communists) who hate and loathe the people they have been hired to serve.

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