Revolutionary Fantasies

The essays by Jost Turner have been well received by OD readers thus far, and I have received a couple requests for more of his material. While some of Turner’s stuff is readily accessibly on the internet, other pieces seem to have sank into the memory hole, so it is my intention to archive here all of Turner’s work on which I can lay my hands. If you have any rare Jost Turner materials, please contact me. I am particularly interested in his Kriya booklets.

As it is a lazy Sunday afternoon and the blog is fairly slow, I decided to post Revolutionary Fantasies, which is probably Jost’s best known essays. I still have a number of these pamphlets and I have handed out quite a few over the years.

Revolutionary Fantasies

By Jost Turner

We all know that the White racial movement is adorned with a dismally
large number of kooks, screwballs, sociopaths, and government
informers. But it is less known that there are a growing number who
live in a fantasy world of revolution and guerrilla warfare. An
alarming number of White racial publications are either overtly or
covertly advocating revolution or guerrilla war against the
government as the only solution left for survival of the White race.

Recently, some racial writers have supported this position by
proclaiming that the Weaver tragedy proved conclusively that the
government was now out to exterminate all White racialists, leaving
us with the clear connotation that our only recourse is to arm
ourselves and prepare for violence, warfare and revolution. This,
too, is fantasy. First of all, if any of these writers really
believed that the government was out to exterminate them, they would
hardly be making an easy target of themselves by publishing
newsletters or appearing on talk-shows!

Even a little reflection would suffice to realize that if the
government wanted to get rid of White racialist leaders or otherwise,
they would hardly have to resort to using assault troops. All of us
would simply disappear, and, as the reaction to the Davidian tragedy
clearly demonstrated, the public could care less. The fact is, of
course, that the government likes having White racialists around,
especially the more outrageous variety. Most of the White racial
newsletters, demonstrations, and talk-show appearances generously
affirm the government’s image of White racialists as hate-filled,
violence-prone gun nuts, with a simple-minded racial philosophy.
Sometimes we have to wonder if these Klansmen, neo-Nazis, or “White
Power” advocates aren’t working directly from a Hollywood script!

Enough of fantasy, let’s get real! In this country, the possibility
of any sort of White revolutions in the foreseeable future is
infinitesimal. One only has to count the number of racialists in any
given area to determine that people of our persuasion are few and far
between. One only has to look at the paltry budgets of White racial
organizations to determine that supporters are just as few and far
between. One only has to look at the large number of organizations
into which the few racialists are divided to realize just how
unorganized and impotent we are. Let’s face it, we are an extremely
tiny minority of the population, statistically, financially, and
organizationally insignificant. We constitute neither a threat to the
government nor any possibility of revolution.

These advocates of revolution and guerrilla war would do well to
throw away their copies of The Turner Diaries. The Turner Diaries is
NOT by any stretch of the imagination a “blueprint for revolution”,
nor is it even a suitable handbook for such. It, too, is strictly
fantasy. If you want to learn to play the violin, you seek a teacher
who is the best violinist you can find. So it is with anything one
wants to learn. In the case of revolution and warfare, one should
seek the advice of those who have been successful in such activities.
Both Che Guevara and Mao Tse Tung are successful revolutionary
leaders, have been in combat, and their books on the subject are
probably the best.

From the aforementioned authors, one will learn that the most
critical factor for revolution (and the one virtually never
considered by our newsletter warriors), is SUPPORT. Necessary for any
revolution is a support base among the population — a folk-base, if
you will. The Viet Cong were highly successful in Vietnam primarily
because they had the support of a large segment of the people. This
folk-base provided them with supply, shelter, intelligence, and
medical assistance. Hence, the revolution was bound to be a success
in spite of the overwhelming firepower of the American armed forces.
In contrast, the vast majority of Whites in this country have no
sympathy for our cause. Most would turn us in, convict us, and
execute us faster than any other race. We have no folk-base
whatsoever and there is none visible in the foreseeable future!

In 1923 Germany was ripe for revolution. Adolf Hitler had 55,000
registered supporters, professional military officers (even
Generals), the active support of hundreds of armed, trained, combat
veterans, and public support, the like of which we could not even
imagine!

On November 8, 1923, he attempted an armed revolution and failed.
Think about it. If he failed in such an opportune situation, then why
should we consider armed revolution in a country not ripe for it –
with no public support, no trained veterans, no leaders, no military
officers, and no organization with more than a hundred or so
registered supporters? Even though in later years Adolf Hitler’s
support grew and the threat of Marxist take-over increased, he never
again considered armed revolution. Instead, he carefully built a
solid, Folk-based movement which ultimately could not be denied
power! Adolf Hitler was solution-oriented.

Finally, I must point out that, so far as I can determine, not one of
the writers, philosophers, or would-be leaders who advocate
revolution or guerrilla warfare have the background or training
necessary to even take part in such an activity, let alone organize
or lead it!

As a veteran of two combat tours in Vietnam, I can safely say that I
have a pretty good idea of what is necessary to wage guerrilla
warfare — not only in individual training, but in supply, logistics,
intelligence and a number of other necessities never thought of by
most newsletter tacticians. I have painfully experienced the physical
and psychological rigors of guerrilla warfare in blistering, insect-
ridden, jungled mountains. I have personally killed other human
beings at close enough range to see the look in their eyes as they
left this world. I have myself “looked death in the face” on more
than one occasion, and managed to survive some impossible situations.
Nevertheless, I would never consider myself qualified to lead a
revolution, or for that matter, even a small guerrilla force. I might
add here, that I would not relish the thought of going back into
combat, nor encouraging others to do so.

Beware of people who wave around a copy of The Turner Diaries and
preach armed revolution! If in doubt, ask them what armed revolution
they’ve taken part in, or what war they’ve served in, or what
training they have had, or even what book they have read, written by
a successful revolutionary, and on which they have based their
proposed armed revolution!? Beware of those who live in a fantasy
world. They can bring nothing but destruction on themselves, their
followers, and the racial movement itself.

The call for revolution and violence is a natural consequence
of “problem-orientation”. White racial organizations invariably dwell
on and whine about the blatant double standards, degeneracy, race-
mixing, etc. Speakers and newsletters state and restate these
depressing problems, and call for demonstrations and marches which,
again, only state and restate the problems. This problem-orientation
is extremely unhealthy, and can cause serious mental disorders (and
fantasy worlds!) More and more White racialists are identifying
themselves with persecution — just like the neurotics who identify
themselves with exterminations and Holocaust memorials! Ultimately,
the accumulated frustration of long-term dwelling on these problems
culminates in a desperate cry for revolution and violence, and
creates the appropriate fantasy world to support it.

We desperately need to become “solution oriented”, that is,
dispassionately determining just what we can do, and using our Aryan
will to do it successfully. It is a sad day when Aryans can do no
better than tried and disproven marches and demonstrations,
anachronistic robes and uniforms, ridiculous “White Power” stickers
adorned with childish racial slurs, and the irresponsible call to
arms and revolution by fantasizers who have no such abilities
themselves.

Adolf Hitler was solution-oriented. He built his political movement
on the foundation of a viable Folk-movement which he fostered and
nurtured. He began in his own neighborhood, converting his own
neighbors, and only when he had a large support base there did he
expand his political efforts nationally. We should be giving thought
to his tried and proven methods instead of listening to losers whine
about a fantasy revolution.

Keep in mind that there is absolutely no support for armed revolution
in this country at this time. Without public support, all violence is
counterproductive. This is not a theory, it is a cold, hard fact!

For those who realize that to change the world, you must first change
yourself!

48 Comments

  1. That’s a great essay! I would add that the “armed revolution fantasy” comes from watching too many feature films where all problems are resolved after a couple of car chases and gunfights, a setback, one last car chase, one last gunfight, and then the good guys win and credits roll.

    That conditioned “shortcut thinking” in people. The subconscious mind can’t distinguish movies and reality. In a certain sense, Jews who watch “Schindler’s List” become “Holocaust survivors.”

    The thing about “long term oriented” thinking, or “solutions oriented” thinking is that it takes patience and confidence that the effort will be worth it. What you find out is that you become personally more powerful. You might not see a light at the end of the tunnel for the White race. But if enough of us devote ourselves to long term thinking and cultivating personal success, we’ll be able to start working collectively, and go from there. I know it sounds like a long, long term project. I don’t see what else is possible. The longest march begins with the first step.

  2. Some thoughts to consider:

    1. JT is entirely correct that White Nationalism needs the support, which it does not currently have, of large numbers of the White American people in order to be effective. He is also correct when he says that violence wil alienate most White Americans. What he doesn’t seem to realize is the fact that Hitler Worship and Holocaust denial will alienate most White Americans more quickly and more completely than acts of violence.

    2. JT is correct when he insists war and revolution should be left to those who are competant at such things. He doesn’t seem to appreciate, however, is that the study of history is best entrusted to judicious scholars.

    3. Mainstrem history is a friend, not an enemy, in the struggle against Abe Foxman. Mainstream history teaches us that 6 million Jews were murdered by Hitler, and also teaches us that 1.5 million Armenians were murdered by the Ottoman Empire and 21 million East Europeans were murdered by the Soviet Union and its satelite regimes. Why not accept Holocaust rememberance, but insist that it be expanded into “Early 20th Century European Mass Murder Rememberance” which mourns all victims equally? For every dollar spent commemorating the Holocaust, spend $3.50 commemorating the victims of Leninism and $.25 commemorating the Armenian victims of militant Islam. For every hour spent teaching children to hate Hitler, spend 3 1/2 hours teaching children to hate Trotsky etc. and 15 minutes teaching them to hate the Ottoman Sultan. Foxman could only oppose such a movement by explicitly stating that he considers the life of a Jew to be more valuable than the life of a non-Jew. The realization that Jews have been perpetrators at some times, and victims at other times, will remove the aura of unique-victimhood which does so much to build Jewish morale while destroying White morale. A first step, on the part of White Nationalists, would be to sincerely mourn the murdered Jewish innocents of the Holocaust and sincerely condemn Hitler. Then we will be able, with good conscience, to demand that Jews mourn the murdered innocents of Eastern Europe just as much as they mourn their own people and condemn Trotsky, Zinoviev and Kaganovitch for their role in advocating for, planning, and carrying out the Soviet attrocities.

  3. Suggestion for effective, practical action: stop movie theatres from playing Polanski’s latest movie. Use the slogan “No financial support for rapists”

  4. Was just looking at Jobling’s site a bit, and according to him white nationalists are insane. So why the hell does he have a site called White America then?

    Jobling: What gets me is that white nationalists who believe in ENT sit around complaining that all whites except for themselves are insane because they don’t act on their racial interests. It never occurs to white nationalists that it is more likely the other way around: it is they who are out of their minds while the white majority is perfectly sane

  5. Jost Turner wrote<>

    That’s a great summary, and definitely true. It is the reason why Federal undercover agents, agent provocateurs and other infiltrators within WN circles are almost always the ones agitating for violence and illegal acts.

    Needless to say, anyone who suggests violence should be condemned and shunned, but the pro-White advocates who supposedly “fantasize” about using violence aren’t the only ones engaging in pure fantasy. Our enemies are currently making good progress toward White genocide, and all evidence suggests that the other side is NOT open to reason will ever only respond to ONE language.

    People who believe otherwise are living in a fantasy world too.

  6. Heh, well, the left is full of fantasists, sociopaths, and disagreeable types as well. The main difference between them and us is they have the power and they can make their fantasies come true.

  7. Just out of curiosity, when was this essay written? Things have changed so much, so fast, that even the 90’s increasingly appear to be ancient history. The demographic and cultural changes since then have been staggering. Legitimate means of white advocacy are progressively closed off (see Amren), but at the same time we seem to have entered a prolonged period of economic crisis, or at least contraction. Levels of system legitimacy seem lower than at any time in most of our lifetimes. So again, it’s important to know when this essay was written.

    Jost makes some good points, no question about it. But the essay doesn’t seem to take into account rapidly changing conditions, which in my view limits its value. Further, I question the whole “Look at how Hitler did it” approach. Our situation is radically different from early twentieth century Germany. And I do mean radically different. That’s not at all to say that there isn’t value in studying how the National Socialists pulled it off. If we can learn from them, or from Che, or Mao, then great. But our situation is so different on many, many levels (cultural, economic, technology, demographics, etc.) that it is clear that we are going to have to approach matters in a very different way. Frankly, a few good points aside, I don’t find Jost’s essay particularly helpful or persuasive in the matter.

  8. Trainspotter, the part about there being a insignificant number of WNs hasn’t changed, and that still precludes a revolution. But you’re right about the system’s loss of legitimacy. I’m not counting on the great collapse to save us, but if a great collapse does come that will be a great opportunity. In the chaos of multiple secession movements we might be able to slip away from federal control the way the Soviet republics escaped when communism collapsed.

  9. Mark,

    Here’s my reply to Jobling’s article (I left it at his site but it hasn’t been approved yet):

    Ian,

    There are two main problems with this article:

    One is that the title is profoundly misleading. You don’t even make the claim within the article that you are proving the irrelevance of ethnic genetic interests! Rather you merely claim that there’s a barrier to the evolution of Self-Sacrificial Ethnic Nepotism, making the title a misnomer that should be changed in the interests of basic honesty.

    The other problem is that your entire argument is based on the lie that “Doing Nothing as Someone Else Sacrifices Themselves for the Ethny” is an Evolutionary Strategy.

    It is NO SUCH THING, as there’s no way for the Genes to know whether someone else is going to sacrifice themselves for the Ethny or not.

    Rather the Evolutionary Strategy that bears the closest resemblance to the one you describe is the “Do Nothing to Help or Save the Ethny No Matter What” Evolutionary Strategy.

    And here’s the thing, to evaluate the success of the Do Nothing Evolutionary Strategy you have to look at EVERYONE following it, including people in Tribes where no one risks themselves for the good of the racial group, including people in Tribes where the entire racial group suffers devastatingly lowered fitness.

    Let’s say there are two strategies, the Jephthah Strategy, which involves self-sacrifice for the sake of gaining victory for your Jewish Tribe over the Ammonites, and the Selfish Strategy. Of what benefit is it to the Selfish Strategy if a Tribe with a member following the Jephthah Strategy defeats a Tribe without any members following the Jephthah Strategy?

    From the Standpoint of the Selfish Strategy, all the benefits Israeli followers of the Selfish Strategy got out of Jephthah’s victory were made up for by the harm done to Ammonite followers of the Selfish Strategy.

    In contrast, the Jephthah Strategy benefited from the victory, because Genes that weren’t related to an example of the Jephthah Strategy were replaced by the Genes that were related to an example of the Jephthah Strategy.

    Thus the Genotype of the average Human in the area was pushed at least a little towards the Jephthah Strategy, and at least a little further away from the Selfish Strategy.

    Now, of course, in most cases out and out sacrifice is stupid from an evolutionary perspective because there’s usually no benefit from it, due to the fact that after you’re dead there isn’t anything you can do to help your Family and/or Tribe. (I suppose this may be changing somewhat in recent times because of the phenomenon of Muslim Suicide Bombing.)

    However, there have been many cases in History people have been able to help their Ethnic Kin by risking their life and/or the lives of their family members.

    It is this behavior that has been, to an extent, selected for.

    To put it simply: Salter is right, and you are completely wrong.

    http://whiteamerica.us/index.php/articles/articles/the_irrelevance_of_ethnic_genetic_interests/

  10. The article was a disappointment since I was expecting a little more of the correlations, even if they are mainly poetic, between northern European traditional religion and yoga. That was tantalizing, the little taste of it we got. This preaching about the impracticality of White revolution is boring by comparison, and the writing is not particularly inspired either. Kievsky is much better and you don’t have to dig through archives to find his writing. Preaching out, yoga in!

  11. Randy,

    I’m working on accruing Jost’s more esoteric writings, such as his Kriya series. I will post them in time, and in my opinion they are well worth digging through the archives.

  12. One is that the title is profoundly misleading. You don’t even make the claim within the article that you are proving the irrelevance of ethnic genetic interests! Rather you merely claim that there’s a barrier to the evolution of Self-Sacrificial Ethnic Nepotism, making the title a misnomer that should be changed in the interests of basic honesty.

    You are right — Jobling’s essay never even engaged the concept of ethnic genetic interests. It was a very stupid essay.

  13. We desperately need to become “solution oriented”, that is,
    dispassionately determining just what we can do, and using our Aryan will to do it successfully.

    The main problem with white nationalism that I see is that nobody has a good plan. The only thing that is working is slowly spreading ideas via the internet. All attempts at organizing anything in real life fail miserably – the Jews have no trouble infiltrating and destroying WN organizations while they are still small. They nip everything in the bud.

    I don’t see a way around this until either our numbers become sufficiently large or there is some external change (such as the advent of the internet) that tips the scale in our favor.

  14. JT is correct when he insists war and revolution should be left to those who are competant at such things. He doesn’t seem to appreciate, however, is that the study of history is best entrusted to judicious scholars.

    A first step, on the part of White Nationalists, would be to sincerely mourn the murdered Jewish innocents of the Holocaust and sincerely condemn Hitler. Then we will be able, with good conscience, to demand that Jews mourn the murdered innocents of Eastern Europe just as much as they mourn their own people and condemn Trotsky, Zinoviev and Kaganovitch for their role in advocating for, planning, and carrying out the Soviet attrocities.

    These shills crack me up. How do they come up with this stuff?

  15. Reader,

    The local organizations don’t fail due to Jewish perfidy. They fail due to a pervasive lack of organizational leadership experience among our target demographic. The very acts of fundraising, leveraging database-driven political networking, and lobbying are the foundation of any viable political machine and they’re all totally alien to most White Advocates. How do you succeed when everybody involved thinks that requesting money to support your political effort is dishonorable and Jewy?

  16. I’m organizing around small social networks of friends, and entrepreneurialism and community supported agriculture. There’s nothing official, and only people with true initiative are able to participate (self starters).

    A lot of people posting are waiting for others to do something. You got to do stuff yourself. You need to be personally successful, at this point, before you can contribute much of anything. Your success, will be our success.

  17. Jost Turner sounds like a pretentious kook.

    He’s right about one thing: Nobody should talk about violent revolution. Talking about violence is like dancing about architecture. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

    Turner says that holding marches and rallies won’t accomplish anything. I disagree. Being able to put even a few hundred Whites on the streets would be a very inspiring event.

    No one can look at this picture and not feel proud of what we could be:
    http://www.whty.org/images/millermarch6.jpg

    And he wants us to follow the example of Hitler? Hell, Hitler had it way easier than we do. In the 1920s and 1930s eugenics and racial studies had not yet been suppressed by Jewish “scientists” like Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin – although their forerunners Franz Boas and Ashley Montagu were laying the foundation. Today these “scientists” claim that race doesn’t even exist! Also, Hitler inherited the German ‘folkish’ movement as he gained popularity. The foundation was already there – he just had to fight for it. And wait a minute… didn’t Hitler make good use of marches and rallies, or am I thinking of someone else? It must be! Because Hitler was “solution oriented” and marches and rallies are “tried and disproven!”

    Finally, Turner spends alot of time calling other people “kooks, screwballs, sociopaths, and government informers.” If “Jost Turner” knows the right way to do things, why hasn’t he succeeded in creating a mass-movement yet? Why haven’t I heard of him before? Where the hell is the proof that he’s right and everyone else is wrong?

  18. I had the same epiphany while reading the same book. I was reading Che’s book and realized that absolutely anything revolutionary requires folk support. You can also gather this from watching Battle of Algiers, something everybody here ought to do. His stating that we need folk support in the White American context then stating that he supports Hitler is an epic fail. It demonstrates that he’s given very little serious thought to the steps necessary to cultivate a symbiotic relationship with White American folk.

    He, like so many White Advocates, appears to have gotten hung up on some ideological stumbling block on the path to becoming credible and effective advocates for White American folk. For some, it’s paganism. For some, it’s Hitler. For some, it’s Holocaust denial. The true fantasists are those who want to fundamentally overthrow the Christian and Masonic foundations of White American tribal identity. It appears that Jost Turner is as guilty of this defect as the kooks ‘n klansmen he denigates.

    In all fairness to modern klansmen, they’re often unintelligent and uninformed working class folks who lack the ability to know better. I’m going to go ahead and accuse him of choosing Hitler fetishism over cultivating an advocacy relationship with our White American folk despite the ability to know better.

    Our habit of honoring ideals before blood will be our undoing.

  19. Wiki,

    You are exactly right.

    Condemn NAZIism and Holocaust denial, and you put yourself in the company of effective white advcates such as Kevin MacDonald, Patrick Buchanan and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

    Support NAZIism and Holocaust denial, and you put yourself in the company of Alex Linder and other members of the counter-productive lunatic fringe.

  20. Davidson,

    You know nothing about Jost, as you admit later in the same post, yet you feel that he is a pretentious kook? On what do you base this statement?

    As an inspiring image of what we as a people “could be,” you provide us with a picture of the party led by Federal Witness Protection Program alumni Glenn Miller, which you insist we should look upon with pride. It should be noted that Miller used stolen money to put on that display and later turned on everyone who had ever trusted him. If that is what we “could be,” I’d rather stay as we are.

    JT did go about trying to implement his solution-oriented tactics, with mixed success, and much of this trial and error can be instructive to contemporary folkish nationalists.

    His essays are dated (they are a product of the 1990s and this shows) and they have some shortcomings (Jost’s penchant for Hiterlism often stood in the way of his practical organising, IMO), but they’re not irrelevant, and I am trying to call attention to Jost for the exact reason you cite: he is almost unknown among most racialists, despite being a sound writer and a talented organiser. We should study his life and learn what we can from it.

  21. I agree with Robert that the essays are sharp and, at the very least, worthy of dissection.

    What doesn’t compute for me is the disconnect between ordinary Americans and what many in the movement are attempting to sell. Have these people who propose these integrally radical perspectives tried these on their cousins or co-workers? How does that go? I would like to know.

  22. Wiki,

    You are exactly right.

    Condemn NAZIism and Holocaust denial, and you put yourself in the company of effective white advocates such as Kevin MacDonald, Patrick Buchanan and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

    Support NAZIism and Holocaust denial, and you put yourself in the company of Alex Linder and other members of the counter-productive lunatic fringe.

    Interesting commentary on our dilemma:

    Either:

    Adopt the democratic delusion and tell the inoffensive half of the truth for the sake of numbers – stabbing the memory of our past and present heroes in the back, Commie-wise and Kosher-con-like – thus cultivating ‘tards who would reject a future hero and whose testimony to others would be easily dismissed as defective by anyone worth convincing.

    Or:

    Attempt to tell the whole truth and not be granted the necessary time, interest, and intellect by the tremulous and superstitious underclass that has toil and temptations to attend to.

  23. NN,

    You’ve constructed a false dichotomy to complement your aristocratic prejudice. This, in a nutshell, is why the leadership derived from ancient military orders must give way to management by priestly elites. You recoil at the thought of stewardship over the sheep you’re inclined to slaughter.

    I’m in this for my fellow White Americans. I’m in it for friends and family who are ordinary folks with ordinary political orientations. Many of them are probably watching Fox News right now. Hell, some of them are actually retarded. For me, the highest calling is that of the patriarch, of devoting my life to serving my people – warts and all.

  24. You’ve constructed a false dichotomy to complement your aristocratic prejudice. This, in a nutshell, is why the leadership derived from ancient military orders must give way to management by priestly elites.

    Law of entropy. How to reverse it? Not by indulging it.

    You recoil at the thought of stewardship over the sheep you’re inclined to slaughter.

    You mistake me. The student, rather, is not properly instructed by having the instructor lower himself to pandering. Unfortunately, the student body is one composed of uh’s “conceited morons”. That is the proper analogy.

    I’m in this for my fellow White Americans. I’m in it for friends and family who are ordinary folks with ordinary political orientations.

    Your motives are not at issue – nor should be mine.

  25. NeoNietzshce,

    Your preference for one varna over the other is mere fancy. If you’re looking for decadence, decline, and dishonor, check the castle, not the monastery. The monks may suffer from ressentiment, but that’s preferable to syphilis.

    I wasn’t implying that you have ignoble or cryptic motives. What I’m implying is that you may be perceiving them as ranks to be commanded rather than influenced and protected. I do suspect that there could be a fundamental difference in motive, but I’m not attempting to impugn.

    I’m glad you offered the teacher/student metaphor. I believe a good teacher finds the level the student is at and begins from there, speaking at first in the student’s native language. The good teacher doesn’t begrudge the student’s wrong answers before he’s even taught the student how to arrive at the correct one. He doesn’t skip steps or ramble in indecipherable lexicon. He’s a steward, a mentor.

  26. “You know nothing about Jost, as you admit later in the same post, yet you feel that he is a pretentious kook? On what do you base this statement?”

    Well, for starters he’s pretentious because he takes a collective dump on the rest of the movement and states that nobody (except him!) knows how to win this racial struggle. He says the rest of the movement is “adorned with a dismally large number of kooks, screwballs, sociopaths, and government informers.” And “not one of the writers, philosophers, or would-be leaders who advocate revolution or guerrilla warfare have the background or training necessary to even take part in such an activity, let alone organize or lead it!” Jost Turner obviously knows better than everyone else, and he says so: “As a veteran of two combat tours in Vietnam, I can safely say that I have a pretty good idea of what is necessary to wage guerrilla warfare…” Nevermind that Che was a spoiled kid from a rich family, Castro was a dentist, and Mao was a librarian. That didn’t seem to stop them from having successful wars of liberation – but the thought makes Turner tremble in his jungle-boots.

    Then he confuses simple facts. Demonstrations and marches are “problem oriented” and “tried and disproven” – Hitler’s approach was “tried and proven.” But Hitler made extensive use of marches and rallies! Besides, if he’s trying to build a mass movement in the United States, why would he describe Hitler as “solution oriented”? Wouldn’t that alienate most White Americans? That’s where his kookery shines through like a tinfoil hat in a dimly lit trailer.

    “If that is what we “could be,” I’d rather stay as we are.”

    Just because Miller was a traitor doesn’t discredit the idea of rallies and marches.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/c/c7/1936NurembergRally.jpg

    @Wiki
    Great description of our relationship with the White masses.

  27. Your preference for one varna over the other is mere fancy. If you’re looking for decadence, decline, and dishonor, check the castle, not the monastery. The monks may suffer from ressentiment, but that’s preferable to syphilis.

    Do you mean the “castle” that indolently relied upon the alien, international Church for the creation and maintenance of a (pathological) ordering of society rather than exclusively upon its own disciplinary means? I believe you do. So I thank you for thus alluding to the Faustian Pact, and the cautionary tale that is the history of the West in whoring with ecclesiocracies of *any* stripe.

    What I’m implying is that you may be perceiving them as ranks to be commanded rather than influenced….

    Correct.

    I’m glad you offered the teacher/student metaphor. I believe a good teacher finds the level the student is at and begins from there, speaking at first in the student’s native language.
    The good teacher doesn’t begrudge the student’s wrong answers before he’s even taught the student how to arrive at the correct one. He doesn’t skip steps or ramble in indecipherable lexicon. He’s a steward, a mentor.

    Would that one were confronted with such a classroom or tutorial arrangement over and in which one has authority, apt pupils, and their obligatory attention. Lacking that, other means have be employed.

  28. BTW, Wiki,

    I’m glad you offered the teacher/student metaphor. I believe a good teacher finds the level the student is at and begins from there, speaking at first in the student’s native language.
    The good teacher doesn’t begrudge the student’s wrong answers before he’s even taught the student how to arrive at the correct one. He doesn’t skip steps or ramble in indecipherable lexicon. He’s a steward, a mentor.

    Exactly my procedure with a *family* member, my wife.

    I took a radical feminist and turned her 180 – with 24/7 of the above for two years. Can’t do that online.

    One cannot sustain the attention of adults who consider themselves “educated,” when one must accommodate their requirement for indulgence, as you suggest above, by having to teach them, first, to count their fingers and toes toward eventually understanding politico-economic calculus.

  29. Mr. Davidson,

    Is it your contention that our movement is *not* adorned with an abysmally large number of kooks and sociopaths? If so, I wonder how many racialists you have met.

    In other essays, Jost discusses the fact that certain skinheads and costume clowns (whom he doesn’t name) ruined several of his projects. For example, all of the great work he did in Nevada County was undone when tattooed, regalia-clad criminals turned up and alienated the locals by starting fights, stealing things, driving around drunk, and beating women (yes, these so-called “Aryans” beat white women) while adorned with Swastika t-shirts.
    His assessment of these malignant people is spot on, and unless you count yourself among the sociopathic, drunken criminal element, I don’t know why you find it offensive.

    Jost never claimed to have a monopoly on truth, and the message of his essay is very simple: you cannot wage a guerrilla war without capturing the hearts and minds of the people you seek to liberate. You must build folk consciousness and ethnic cohesion before you can think of taking drastic steps to assure the preservation of folk consciousness and ethnic cohesion. Those who demand direct action now are putting the cart before the horse.

    You said in a previous post that you’d never even heard of Jost Turner until I posted his material. You have no idea what he sought to build, how he did it, or to what extent he did or did not implement his solution-oriented problem-solving; however, this doesn’t stop you from denigrating his memory for no apparent reason. In my opinion, that is not how an Aryan man comports himself. As my grandfather always said, “de mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est.”

    You did not merely defend the abstract notion of marches and rallies. What you said was:

    “No one can look at this picture and not feel proud of what we could be:
    http://www.whty.org/images/millermarch6.jpg

    You could have used the Nürnberg photo that you used in your last response, but you didn’t; you used the WPP. Moreover, you didn’t simply defend WPP tactics, but said that “no one can look at [the WPP rally photo] and not feel proud of what we could be.” This makes it clear that you are proud of Miller’s accomplishments (not merely rallies themselves, but specifically Miller’s WPP parades) and that you view those activities as an inspiring example “of what we could be.”

    I am not inspired by that picture at all. What I see is a cowardly rat wasting 200K of Order money by parading hillbillies through the streets. The few good people he managed to gather around him were thrown under the bus after he “went underground” and “declared war.” As I said, if that’s what we “could be,” I’d rather stay as we are.

  30. I took a radical feminist and turned her 180 – with 24/7 of the above for two years.

    What took you so long? 🙂

  31. I have deleted two posts on this thread, which consisted of very base, unwarranted personal attacks on NeoNietzsche.

    Both of these comments were posted by the same user, who has never posted here under that moniker before (thus, they were moderated automatically, and I did not approve them), which makes his intentions very obvious: he is here to perpetuate a personal grudge.

    Here are my thoughts on this:

    1) I am very tired of smarmy comments about NN’s costumed NS activities. It is obvious that exoteric National Socialism has run its course; history does not work in reaction and the NS of the Third Reich will never manifest itself again. However, Hitler and the Swastika (our ancient and revered Fylfot) endure as powerful archetypes within a potent spiritual current, and there is much we can learn from Herr Wolf and his movement. In donning that uniform and taking to the streets, NN showed more courage and dedication than most people here ever will.

    2) This is not the venue for personal attacks of any kind. If you cannot comport yourself with a modicum of civility, please go elsewhere.

  32. My further reply to Jobling:

    “Not only do I prove that self-sacrifice for ethny is evolutionarily irrational…”

    No you didn’t.

    If doing something makes it so there’s more copies of your alleles than there would’ve been otherwise, then it IS evolutionarily rational.

    “The rest of your comment I already answered in our previous discussion.”

    Yeah but that answer was based on a failure on your part to understand the nature of additive inheritance.

    Also, you completely failed to answer the point I made here:

    **************************************

    Your missing my point that I think Self-Sacrifice is a genetically influenced Spectrum.

    Let’s say there were 10,000 Alleles that all had an equal additive effect on Ethnic Altruism. And let’s also say that if you have only 1 of the Alleles that makes you very Selfish, if you have 5,000 that makes you average in Ethnic Altruism, and if you have all 10,000 that makes you Jephthah.

    From the standpoint of the long term pervasiveness of Ethnic Altruism, the only thing that matters is the frequency of the 10,000 Alleles that have an additive effect on Ethnic Altruism.

    It’s like if there were 10,000 Alleles with an additive effect on IQ. If the people with all 10,000 of the Alleles and IQs of 180 sacrificed their lives for the sake of a large enough number of Ethnic Kin, the average Intelligence of the Human Race would actually improve (even if the number of people with IQs of 180 would likely go down).

    Let’s say there were 100,000 Whites and 100,000 Blacks, and the average White had 7,500 of the Pro-IQ Alleles and the average Black only 5,000 of them.

    This discrepancy let to there being 9 Whites with all 10,000 Pro-IQ Alleles (and subsequently 180 IQs) and only 1 Black with all 10,000 of them.

    Then the 9 Whites sacrifice themselves to each make it so the next generation had 10,000 more Whites and 10,000 less Blacks.

    At the same time the 1 Black with all 10,000 Alleles sacrificed himself to make it so the next generation had 10,000 more Blacks and 10,000 less Whites.

    The combination of the 9 Whites and 1 Black doing what they did would make it so the next generation would have 180,000 Whites and only 20,000 Blacks.

    No what effect did these self-sacrificial actions by the people with IQs of 180 have on the average number of Pro-IQ Alleles in the General Population?

    It had the effect of moving the Average Number of Pro-IQ Alleles in the General Population from 6,250 to 7,250!

    The same thing happened in this example with the additive gene influenced spectrum called IQ could happen with the additive gene influenced spectrum called Ethnic Altruism.

  33. “I took a radical feminist and turned her 180 – with 24/7 of the above for two years.”

    What took you so long?

    That’s a very good question, Mark.

    It has been my experience, as perhaps it has been yours, that convincing a person from a radically opposing ideological orientation – particularly a person with a genius IQ and having come from an ideologically supportive environment – requires responding to and revising that other person’s information and outlook on a myriad (10,000) of issues.

    And it only requires that you fail to satisfactorily answer just *one* of the myriad points, in order to allow your interlocutor to settle back into their comfortable ideological misconstruction of the world.

    Thus you may feel called upon to rise from bed in the middle of the night to quote from the text of a book ostensibly supportive of your interlocutor’s position, but which text you remember (amidst a zillion texts) as contrary in its implications. And you must be prepared, at any time, day or night, to have your logic and evidence impeccably in order, so that decades of conditioning to an alternative *emotional* orientation may be set aside in favor of the rigors of “conceiving reality as it is”.

    That is why it took so long.

  34. NeoNietzsche,

    Hell. For all that effort, you could have just created a human from scratch and worked with a fresh canvas.

    Personally, my strategy I’ve been using on my wife has been projecting auctoritas with my body language while repeating NLP mantras. So far, this has done little to persuade my wife and a lot to creep out other WalMart shoppers.

  35. Hell. For all that effort, you could have just created a human from scratch and worked with a fresh canvas.

    My very own FrankenReitsch, eh?

    Rough sex and she comes apart.

    I’ll stick with my trusty old modified.

  36. @Robert Campbell

    In donning that uniform and taking to the streets, NN showed more courage and dedication than most people here ever will.

    Thank you, Robert, for your kind and generous appraisal of my youthful activity.

    I would like to respond further, this evening, over at my blog.

  37. “You have no idea what he sought to build, how he did it, or to what extent he did or did not implement his solution-oriented problem-solving; however, this doesn’t stop you from denigrating his memory for no apparent reason.”

    My goal wasn’t to “denigrate his memory” but rather to express my dislike of his characterization of the ‘white racial movement.’ Yes, we are heavily infiltrated by informants. Yes, we have alot of mental defectives. This doesn’t mean we should be making this the leading sentence of an essay and distribute it to the public. Does that make sense? I apologize for my use of the terms “pretentious kook” but it’s not worse than anything Turner said.

    “This makes it clear that you are proud of Miller’s accomplishments (not merely rallies themselves, but specifically Miller’s WPP parades) and that you view those activities as an inspiring example “of what we could be.””

    I’m not going to argue for the sake of arguing. I think my point is quite easily understood. The image of hundreds of Whites marching in the streets for their race should inspire any of us. I deliberately picked a photo that didn’t have Glenn Miller visible because I’m not a fan of informants, but I certainly don’t feel the need to talk about them in public places where it might scare away Whites who might agree with us.

    “In my opinion, that is not how an Aryan man comports himself. ”

    I’m sorry I’m not good enough for you.

    “What I see is a cowardly rat wasting 200K of Order money by parading hillbillies through the streets.”

    That’s incredibly offensive. These brave rank-and-file Whites were marching in public in support of their race. They don’t deserve name-calling.

  38. @Robert Campbell,

    Your Comment to the Courage&Dedication post at “superhuman” contained only your information regarding the difficulties with your reply, not the reply itself.

    Would you be so kind as to make another attempt?

    [Or, if you are so inclined and economy favors reproducing it here, I am agreeable, having taken the matter over there in order to avoid sustaining the personality issues that you are trying to suppress over here.]

    NN

  39. Jost Turner was a great man and a brilliant writer/thinker.

    He was also a loving husband and father.

    I wrote to him many times and he took the time to answer all my questions. I spoke with him once.

    This was one of his best essays – please also publish:

    Back to the Land
    Love
    Holocaust a symptom of a deadly disease

    Anyone heard anything about Jost’s daughter? She posted once on Stormfront, but didn’t return.

  40. Please forward my e-mail address on to Robert Campbell. I have some of Jost’s pamphlets, and would like to find his works on Arya Kriya. Thank you. Thom Staser

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