With the successful launch of Alternative Right, the old split between the neo- and the paleo-conservatives was laid to rest. What many of us felt was coming, finally happened. There now exists a very real and very serious split between conservatives who remain firmly emotionally, spiritually and intellectually attached to the United States and those whose attachment has transferred from that nation state to the people who formed that nation state to protect and defend their natural rights and liberties: the European-American people of North America.
The latter was so long associated with the former that it still seems absurd to many Americans to speak of the two as having dissimilar interests, let alone clashing interests. Nevertheless, what was once a tiny fringe has become, if not a mass movement, a much larger fringe.
But it is not the size of this fringe but its quality and character that is important. When one looks at small movements that were harbingers of grand change in the past one notices certain commonalities. Expression of a valid nationalistic ideal, appeals to a common heritage, rejection of current politics in favor of an entirely new polity based on a new understanding, wit, passion and, most of all, the ability to reject the status quo as out of date and already dead convincingly.
In that sense, the war has already been won. While superficially the American state appears beyond challenge and is actively spreading its radical egalitarianism in all corners of the world, the reality on the ground is that the backbone of the country which works and produces to provide such fiscal, moral, legal and military power has also been scheduled for destruction by the power that relies upon it.
It is really no more complicated than that. The liberal state is driven to destroy what makes it and its illusions possible by an almost mechanistic impulse.
And as this has become more clear, we now see with the rise of the Euro-American nationalist right as a new virtual community the first post-American rightist opposition to the current system.
The ability to take the huge mental step and declare the current government a failed experiment is extremely powerful and liberating. It enables one to take a long view and take comfort in the fact that while we are writing and speaking in a dark time for our people, we are also now laying the base for the nation to come, the first stirrings of a new nation in the New World.
Take heart, we are just finding our voice.
I wish you guys would find a chat room for your religious wars, rather than dragging them into every damned thread.
Let’s be honest: it’s not “you guys” with the problem, it’s Watson. He actually has a point about the Catholic Question, but the fact that he continues to attempt to steer the conversation to his pet obsession on every single post makes it seem as if he is a troll, or at the very least unpleasantly monomaniacal.
I’m interested in serious discussion, not debating mouth-breathers that use “LOL” in every post and can’t stay on topic.
Right, a hellhole. It was one before; now it’s reverted back.
Cap’n,
I’ll never get people like you and GuessedWorker who consistently argue against those who are pursuing a strategy while having nothing to offer in return. I mean, you might be right. We may need something that doesn’t exist, yet. There might be some grand new universal philosophy waiting to be envisioned which would change the game.
But what can I do about it? You’ve accurately noted that my strategy isn’t all that innovative. I’m not particularly intelligent or revolutionary. I am trying to lead, but not because I’m full of myself or “pretentious”. I’m not accusing you of anything, because I truly believe you’re committed to the cause. But can you see the folly in standing in the way of those attempting to manifest visions when you’re not offering an alternative?
There might be some grand new universal philosophy waiting to be envisioned which would change the game.
If there were you would have half or more of the comments vigorously attacking it in complete disregard of the facts that support the philosophy. You know, the usual.
Not that this hasn’t been said before but it is far more likely that a certain STYLE of operation and leading will be more effective than a particular philosophy.
We must be wary of strategy that will most likely if it is to be successful gain the momentum to be formalized as political/intellectual system yet does not in fact possess the capability of being formalized AS a stable system. True, I can’t now articulate what such a stable system would look like. Also, I am in broad agreement with GW but doubt I will ever be in total agreement with his philosophizing as that is irrevocably bound up with his genetic/cultural Englishness, a thing which I necessarily cannot share in to the same degree. GW is a serious thinker who actually thinks (outside the box) and as such can tolerate real criticism. Richard Spencer and others I could easily mention do not fit that bill. That they and their ilk would ultimately say what goes sits ill at ease with me.
Thus, the fatal flaw of racial nationalism. A race is not a people. An ethnicity (race, language, culture, history; identity) is a people. The multi-ethnicism you point out paved the way for the multi-culturalism/multi-racialism of today.
The first part I agree with but not the second. Germany only had Germans and France only had French but their homogenous populations and mono-culturalism didn’t stop their countries from becoming multiculutural. The point of my earlier post was not that some Europeans are less White than others, it’s that intermarriage has left Whites weak against groups that have a stronger ethnic identities. What is White American culture? Watching negros play basketball? Rap? Jewish Hollywood movies? America would have been far better off and a more interesting place if the different European groups had maintained their cultures and developed them in different regions of the US to this day. Is it even possible to unite around our race? I don’t think such an example exists anywhere in the world.
“But what can I do about it?”
I think you do what you do well, and it is helpful. Don’t sweat it.
Instead of “manifesting a vision” why don’t you answer the most important question: what is in it for me? The jew has a thousand and one answers to that one.
Well, what can you offer? Honor, glory, safety, security, power, wealth, influence, pleasurable feelings, pride, wife and child, job security, struggle, comradeship… Wahrheit oder Wahnsinn
To get you must give, give, give… if you are rich enough for that. If you possess enough.
Before you go to sleep at night, after you have prayed to the great spirit in the sky, ask youself, what have I given today and to whom, what have I taken today and made mine, and from whom.
NeoStirner,
Have you listened to my radio interview? I really tried to tell people what’s in it for them. I tried to bring things back down to neighborhoods, jobs, safety, and their own childrens’ future. I try to do that in my book. I tried to do that in the speech I gave the week before last. I appreciate that the message must be sold through appeals to self-interest. Obviously, some will recognize the honor inherent in struggling for your own people. I try not to rely too heavily on one single type of appeal.
“Honor, glory, safety, security, power, wealth, influence, pleasurable feelings, pride, wife and child, job security, struggle, comradeship”
Under the new dispensation in which the bit of the individual personality is acquired from the milieu of its matriculation, said personality will have been significantly formed free of the narcissism which is evident in some of the items on the checklist of desires to be satisfied which you enumerate. Such a personality will on average, it is hoped, have its desires focused to more wholesome objects of satisfaction and therefore seek that satisfaction elsewhere and more wholesomely. The sewer of Roissy’s Poon Realpolitik will go into the ashcan of history – it will anyway, you know, as it is not evolutionarily stable, in that it tends to in the long-term fail to reproduce the genes necessary to sustain it.
Giving is an action. What can you personally give to me, a fellow ego?
In the Charmed thread Denise mentioned a woman who supplied stationary gratis, and her reward? Give me something! Don’t promise me something I doubt you can give. Give me now! Then I have the proof before my eyes. What can you give me! Give it to me now, not later. Later you can promise me the world, but for now what do you have to give… me. Quid pro quo, Clarice… quid pro quo. Common business practice, because it works.
That’s sort of my point. No matter what the topic, jew-troll Watson manages a post with something anti-Catholic and LOL. – Lady
—
LMFAO 😀
“What can you personally give to me, a fellow ego?”
I slap you across the face and you wail like a bitch. That that would not gratify (but who know, it just might) you matters little to me.
@47
I removed the post to which you referred, and it is a perfect example of the type of post that we wish to see disappear from the landscape here. Thank you for calling it to my attention. The main problem is that I don’t read all, or even most, of the comments here, and neither does Hunter, so we miss a lot of what takes place.
CC,
We’re not planning to institute heavy-handed moderation aimed at channeling discourse in one specific direction, but merely seeking to purge the trolls, primarily those who frequent the comment area in order to perpetuate personal vendettas.
You are more than welcome to bring to the attention of the OD gallery your “actual intellectual/philosophical framework around which to build sustainable revolutionary change and by which all the petty and heated differences manifested in discourse we observer here could be mended,” of which you claim we suffer such a profound dearth.
I visit MR regularly and I think GW does fine job over there, but I have never seen him explicate the transcendent, life-affirming “new philosophy” that he has been promising for years. When asked to clarify said philosophy, he delivers more vague, Gurdjieffian proclamations, which only add to the ambiguity of the notion.
@Fred Scrooby 53
I have no idea what the Virgin of Guadalupe is doing here in the United States shew and her religious followers belong back in Mexico.
It’s even more amusing that Mexican Roman Catholic gang bangers have her tatooed all over them.
Jew trolls like Watsonberger should be deported back to the land of the Khazars where they came from.
@Robert Campbell
I don’t blame the admins of this site for jew troll Watson’s posts.
As of this posting, it’s still there, and I’m actually sort of glad. As repugnant as it is, more than any post on this thread, it does serve to expose him.
Click this link if you want to know what the troll Watsonberger is really about and laugh at his claims of southern heritage:
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/04/08/more-rules-of-discourse/#comment-45346
We’re not planning to institute heavy-handed moderation aimed at channeling discourse in one specific direction, but merely seeking to purge the trolls, primarily those who frequent the comment area in order to perpetuate personal vendettas.
Purging the trolls and defectives from VNN would be a great start. These are the type of people that hold white nationalism back from being accepted by the mainstream. It was already done to Linder and was a positive move forward.
@69,
The comment has been deleted. Refresh your browser.
And the truth is that real people matter very little to WNs in general. Spooks are what matters to Wnists. The jew greases palms, the jew flatters till he has what he wants and may dispose of his benefactor and take his place. The jew doesn’t let spooks get in the way of what he wants. The jew gives to get.
The rich give. The poor receive. The master orders. The slave obeys. It is better to give than to receive.
White people think it good manners not to say, “What can you give me?”, yet if they receive nothing of worth to themselves from you they shall go somewhere that does “give freely”. It can be chocolates, a slap on the back, a six-pack, vegetables from the garden, a hierachy of merit, but you must give to receive, and this point must be made regardless of the offence it may cause to the pious morality of a Captianchaos.
TW may be “old dutch” of vnn. Known anti-Catholic and user of “LOL”:
old dutch Says:
16 February, 2010 at 8:12 pm
There are over 61,000,000 million plus people who live in the United Kingdom. There are about 275,000 jews who live in the United Kingdom. The chances of you even seeing a Jew outside of London are so small you would have a hard time calculating them.
And don’t forget all Jews are assholes. LOL. So if you encounter a Jew, you are encountering an individual who is an asshole.
The pope wears one of those little beanies too. LOL.
Btw, Linder’s e-mail is not working.
Old Douche,
I know why you hate Catholics.
Hitler,Goebbels,Joe McCarthy,Coughlin…
They attacked YOUR PEOPLE. YOU FUCKING KIKE
old dutch Says:
15 July, 2009 at 4:37 am
Megaboy—You fit the profile. LOL.
Mega Therion Says:
15 July, 2009 at 11:05 am
Old Douche
YAAOCSJF!!!!!
You Are An Old Cock Sucker Jew Faggot!!!!
An old FAGGOT who uses “LOL”…You troll.
#73 TabuLa Raza,
Well, the ‘LOL’s’ indeed nailed him.
Great detective work. ‘LOL’!
Some of you Roman Catholics really need to grow up.
You expect me to accept the RACE and CULTURE of you Mexican & Latino co-religionists. Including such affronts to civilized behavior as Virgin of Gaualupe tattoos.
Hunter can get a small army together by just pointing out the problems the Roman Catholic Mexican & Latino gangs are causing in Virginia, West Virginia, & North Carolina.
@TabuLa Raza
That is hilarious and DEFINITELY proves he’s a jew troll.
Why do those Roman Catholic Mexican/Latino gang bangers get tattoos of your Roman Catholic rosary all over them too? LOL.
Down in Virginia they are still looking for the murderers of two young White college students named Childs & Metzler. They were murdered in the National Forrest late last Summer a few days after the interior department issued a warning about Mexican/Latino gang activity in the National Parks.
None of you Roman Catholics were dealing dope with any Mexicans/Latinos in Virgina, or over in West Virginia? Were you?
Some of you Roman Catholics really need to grow up.
You expect me to accept the RACE and CULTURE of you Mexican & Latino co-religionists. Including such affronts to civilized behavior as Virgin of Gaualupe tattoos.
I’m not Catholic. You’re pissing off more than just that group with your cretinism.
I don’t ask you to accept anything, just to make a reasonable effort to not threadjack or to shut the fuck up in the alternative.
at least SOMEONE is stepping up and trying to make sure these people are … assimilated
Assimilation is the last thing racial preservationists want. Assimilation means racial destruction. In the short term, Balkanization, multiculturalism, and whatever encourages separation and endogamy are vastly preferable to assimilation and amalgamation. In the long term, a racial partition into ethnostates is necessary for racial survival and preservation. Separation is essential for racial preservation.
Sounds like Watsonberger is annoyed that his schtick isn’t working anymore. Typical jew…always gives himself away…funny…they love to change their names, but they still smell the same.
Tom Watson, I think Lady Lurker’s right — why don’t you cool it on the Catholic stuff? We get the message. Maybe decrease it by a factor of about ten, let’s say, as you intersperse other topics of interest. Catholics do plenty of bad stuff (I’m Catholic by the way) and deserve harsh criticism, as Joe Guzzardi did recently over at Vdare.com for example — but you aren’t coming up each time with structured substantive points of criticism, just continual non-specific pot-shots that don’t advance a specific argument, they only communicate to everyone that you’re pissed off at Catholics. Well, we already got that part.
This is the Guzzardi piece:
http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/100402_easter_2010.htm .
Lady and Fred,
Usually these types of morbid obsessions, ala ‘Watsteinburger’ and Catholics, are usually due to some kind of personal hang-ups or problems as such.
So what do you all think it is with him? (I’m guessing ex-wifee) ;}
@81 Fred
What’s there to cool Fred? Facts are facts. I could post pictures of Mexican/Latino Roman Catholic gang bangers with Virgin of Guadalupe & Rosary Tattoos all over them. Flashing gang signs, and with rap sheets.
We have a political problem with these Mexicans & Latinos, and the Roman Catholic church, and their Roman Catholic politicians are only making it worse. As per the appointment of Mexican born Gomez as Cardinal of Los Angeles.
Its been over a hundred years and we still have these Italian Roman Catholic gangs, and their Jew pal gangsters, running around causing problems. Now we are going to have a whole new set of greaser criminals from South of the border to deal with.
82 @ Fred
I like Joe Guzzardi! And yeah, there is an Irish Roman Catholic mob too. Have they found “Whitey” Bulger? LOL
@Kulaks Never Learn,
They presupposes he had the social skills and personal hygiene to actually get a date. Two things jews typically lack.
Nah, I’m sticking with the originally theory–Watsonberger is a jew troll.
Just how big is this split anyhow? Does it mean the end of the Jewish controlled neoconservative hold on the right?
@Kulaks Never Learn,
Then again, it’s possible he fooled some Catholic girl long enough to marry him…but because he’s a jew, she would have been able to divorce him and get an annulment so she could marry a real man!
Perfect Kulaks Never Learn…he hates Catholics because he’s a jew AND he got dumped by a Catholic.
Perfect Kulaks Never Learn…he hates Catholics because he’s a jew AND he got dumped by a Catholic.
Lady,
In the immortal words of Mr. Watstein – LOL!
A new nation “speaks”, indeed. I am quite sure the conversations between Madison, Jefferson and Monroe were JUST like this.
LOL
Ed: “intermarriage has left Whites weak against groups that have a stronger ethnic identities. What is White American culture? Watching negroes play basketball? Rap? Jewish Hollywood movies? America would have been far better off and a more interesting place if the different European groups had maintained their cultures and developed them in different regions of the US to this day.”
I agree it would be a more interesting place, but you would still be under attack from the anti-white forces. Anyway, I think there is a definite American culture. Fifty years ago, there had already been a lot of intermarriage between white Americans of different ethnic origins, but people did not feel as if they had no culture of their own. What led to that feeling, which probably exists everywhere in the West today, is immigration from the third-world, forced integration of the non-whites into white society, television, Jewish influence in the media, urbanization, the expansion of the service sector at the expense of agriculture and industry, the development of bureaucracy and big companies, modern art, the new style of public architecture, and many other things…
“With the successful launch of Alternative Right, the old split between the neo- and the paleo-conservatives was laid to rest.”
What does this mean? It really isn’t clear…
Alternative Right may represent Paleos and people under Paleao influence becoming something else, Radical Traditionalists I think they like to call themselves, but they’re still split from the Neo-Conservatives.
And the Neo-Conservatives, it must be said, still control the Republican Part…
Also the Radical Traditionalists still attack the Neo-Conservatives a lot, just like their ideological ancestors the Paleos.
The split is still extant, don’t kid yourself.
Reginald,
If you are under the impression that paleoconservativism is an antecedent of Radical Traditionalism, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the latter school of thought and its actual history. One of the first pieces published by Alternative Right covered some of this ground:
Julius Evola and Radical Traditionalism
The Tyr Journal on Radical Traditionalism:
“What many of us felt was coming, finally happened. There now exists a very real and very serious split between conservatives who remain firmly emotionally, spiritually and intellectually attached to the United States and those whose attachment has transferred from that nation state to the people who formed that nation state to protect and defend their natural rights and liberties: the European-American people of North America.”
So you are saying the split between Paleos + Their Descendants and Neocons is no longer the most salient split in the Non-Democratic Party Movement?
Well, I agree with that.
“The latter was so long associated with the former that it still seems absurd to many Americans to speak of the two as having dissimilar interests, let alone clashing interests. Nevertheless, what was once a tiny fringe has become, if not a mass movement, a much larger fringe.”
The Tea Party are closer to seeing that than the average American, which explains why the media don’t like them so much even though their current positions seem so dilettantish.
What has happened is that their silly ideologies have paradoxically served to create an alienation in their mind towards the Government.
All that personal responsibility nonsense the Republicans would constantly warble to distract themselves from their Politically Correctness caused failure to see why everything started going downhill may turn out to have some use after all, because it gives people who are too Liberal Leaning to say “I don’t care if the Blacks are too poor to support their broods of low IQ bastards”, to instead say “The Blacks would actually be better off if we forced them to support themselves.”
At the same time they are currently far away from being an actual threat to anyone with real and enduring power.
“If you are under the impression that paleoconservativism is an antecedent of Radical Traditionalism, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the latter school of thought and its actual history.”
Mr. Campbell,
I’m seeing differences of degree and not kind.
Radical Traditionalists seem to take something suspiciously similar to the position the Paleoconservativism would’ve taken back in the days when that movement had some vigor to it, with the exception of cases where the question of Christianity is involved.
Maybe they didn’t really get the posture they adopt from Paleos, and instead from Evola and older thinkers from Europe, but if that’s the case I’d call this a case of parallel evolution.
I just assumed their was a direct ancestral connection because of Gottfried.
“It means to reject the modern, materialist reign of ‘quantity over quality,’ the absence of any meaningful spiritual values, environmental devastation, the mechanization and over-specialization of urban life, and the imperialism of corporate mono-culture, with its vulgar ‘values’ of progress and efficiency.”
That sounds like early Paleo speak to me.
“It means to yearn for the small, homogeneous tribal societies that flourished before Christianity — societies in which every aspect of life was integrated into a holistic system.”
Okay, that’s the new part. And of course this helped get Auster on your case so much…
Tom Watson, LOL.
http://tinyurl.com/ydch8cg
…Is busted, LOL.
http://tinyurl.com/y329psb
White Nationalism is an emotion – love for people of European descent.
Paleo-conservatism and “Radical Traditionalism” are two competing strategies, two competing means to an end.
The idea that Paleo-conservatism is incompatible with White Nationalism is only valid if you accept the “Radical Traditionalist” premise that Christian religion (particularly Evangelical Christian religion)and Democratic-Republican systems of government are sources of weakness for any race which adopts them.
History, however, proves the opposite. Evangelical Christian, Democratic-Republican countries such as Switzerland and pre-1960s USA have been the most successful societies the world has known. In the USA, decline only started after Evangelical Christianity was replaced by liberal theology and democracy was replaced by judical legislation. By contrast, “Radical Traditionalist” countries such as Mussolini’s incompetant Italy and Hitler’s war-starting Germany have been spectacular failures.
@ 98
Well said. Exactly true. And to the point that the true schism in conservatism lies between theistic and humanistic worldviews. One cannot be a “conservative” American and be opposed to everything this nation was founded upon, at the same time.
There is no saving America, or the West as a whole, without returning to the foundation of it’s success. And rejecting everything that progressivism and cultural Marxism have “bestowed” upon us for the last 130 years.
@45 Sam Davidson
You say:
“My view is that we could retain much of the original metaphyics while throwing out the foreign cult-like aspects. And, specifically, Darwin embodies the finest spirit of the European intellect by scientifically investigating the world and drawing conclusions from it.”
With all due respect… utter rubbish. Darwin embodies the beginning of the very thing that has laid waste to white culture and utterly dessimated the entire foundation of white civilization. Finest spirit? Only if you are a Marxist.
You cannot consider just MAYBE retaining the metaphysics of the Protestant Revolution in Europe and its subsequent effect in America without losing everything. The decline of America is directly related to the decline of her church in influencing public policy and culture.
@Mike in Indiana
That is priceless. ROTFLMAO
It appears Tom Watson aka Old Dutch is the laughing stock of multiple WN websites.
I wonder did they ban him for being a jew troll or did he realize the gig was up before he changed his name and slithered over here….LOL! LOL! LOL!