Hate Group: Official Status

Alabama

I was browsing the Montgomery Advertiser this evening when I noticed that the SPLC has its new annual report out about the growth of “hate groups” in America.

The article reported that there was one more “hate group” in Alabama than there was last year. Out of curiosity, I went over to the SPLC website and took a look for myself.

Occidental Dissent is the new hate group!

I was wondering if they had listed themselves as a “hate group” seeing as how the Tea Party, Red State, and House Speaker John Boehner now use that label to the refer to the SPLC.

Apparently not.

Cozy Retirement

I’ve been enjoying my retirement from the White Nationalist movement.

I had no plans to write here any further, but I thought this amusing little news item was worth sharing for anyone still browsing. After all that hard work, we have officially risen to “hate group” status, and in the “White Nationalist” category no less.

The usual suspects will undoubtedly find some way to weave this fact into their ridiculous conspiracy theories. In some quarters of cyberspace, it is common knowledge that I work for the SPLC, the Mossad and someone called Cass Sunstein!

Memo

I’m up to far more mischievous activity these days than crossing swords with the likes of Greg Johnson over “man-animal chimeras.” As you can see, I am buoyant with positive energy.

White Nationalism is an albatross for anyone who is actively trying to advance a pro-White political perspective in the South.

If you call yourself a “White Nationalist,” you will have unnecessarily larded yourself down with a label that is attached to decades of brainwashing, negative framing, and destructive stereotypes. You will spend most of your time being held accountable for the views of the “vanguard” to ordinary people.

Observe:

– Does being a White Nationalist mean you are a Neo-Nazi and that you are for Hitler?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean that you hate Jews?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean you support violence like the Oklahoma City bombing?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean that you hate America?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean that you think you are superior to other people?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean that you want a dictatorship or something?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean that you want to lynch black people and hate other races?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean only blond haired, blue eyed Aryans are White?

– Does being a White Nationalist mean you are against Christianity?

Every single one of these “sidetracks” is endlessly discussed in the White Nationalist movement. Instead of wasting your time playing twenty questions, you can call yourself a “conservative” and won’t be bothered by that type of nonsense anymore.

The typical White person in Alabama and Georgia agrees with us on the important issues – the 70 percent issues – like immigration, affirmative action, and multiculturalism. It is this package deal of 1 percent issues (and the negative framing surrounding them) that derails the WN message into irrelevancy.

Fortunately, the substance of WN can be rescued from the umbrella that is the WN movement, repackaged in a different language under a different label, and sold to the public quite successfully.

We can accomplish more by striking out on our own. It took me many years to realize that.

Final Thought

I know what the SPLC truly fears.

It is not a bunch of rhetorical radicals who do nothing but talk about Jews on the internet, the hucksters swindling goobers out of their money, or the exhibitionists parading around Knoxville in Halloween costumes. What they truly fear is that the White majority in Alabama and other states is already quasi-WN on many issues and has more in common with us than them.

Those people currently suffer from ignorance, poor leadership, and oppression (like the Egyptians), but those are not necessarily intractable problems. In the right conditions, an electric current can jump across that gap, and set the masses on fire.

We have to communicate with ordinary people on their own wavelength. And to do that, we have to spend more time engaging the public, and less splitting hairs on the interwebs, which is why you are hearing less from poor little old me.

About Hunter Wallace 12367 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

50 Comments

  1. So what are you up to these days, Hunter? I seem to recall that a few months ago you were saying that it is pointless to work with the Tea Party. Have you been having better results that have made you change your mind on that issue?

  2. @ Hunter

    If I were you Hunter, I would file a police report naming the SPLC. They are making threats against you, a private citizen, by lumping you in with convicted felons, and other highly questionable characters on their website. You have the proof—their website.

    By filing a police report, if anything does happen to you, or your property, the SPLC is suspect. It is on record that you feel, that you have been threatened by them. Since this is political, you may want to go right to the cheif of police, or another high ranking police officer to make your report?

    I don’t think the police will run down to Montgomery and arrest the SPLC—but—if anything does happen to you, or your property you are protected.

    I would also talk to the local magistrate, about the possibility of a “peace bond” or a “no contact order”. That way if the SPLC bothers you, you have the full force of the law behind you.

  3. No doubt Morris thinks he can get you to play dress up nazi and help bring in a few more millions he can squander. The SPLC is nothing more than an anti-white hate group and a large portion of Southern whites would agree with that.

  4. Moldbug explains the problem:
    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/09/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html
    (…)

    Result: a counter-activist blog, if it achieves any success, will automatically (a) be identified by the T-cells as a dangerous, quasi-fascist Internet cult, and (b) attract a clientela who live up to exactly this dossier. Either way, any further effectiveness is precluded.

    (…)

    But since leftism is a decentralized movement, not a centralized conspiracy, stimulating the left’s immune system just means stimulating the left. So the counter-activist loses on both sides of the equation. He brings hell on himself, and he donates energy to the Death Star.

    (…)

    In your tour de Left, you’ll notice many oozing zombie wounds and heinous, glowing Ringwraith “tells.” The varieties of adaptive propaganda are uncountable. However, one of the most common tropes you’ll notice is a willingness to excuse self-serving ethical deviations through arguments tu quoque. This is one of the major metabolic reactions of the progressive movement. Basically, dear conservative, your struggle is its food. Without you, it dies.

    In the tu-quoque mindset, any form of resistance to progressive government is defined as naked, illegitimate aggression. It naturally produces a counterreaction which is just as aggressive, often more unprincipled, and always much stronger. A fine example is the complete extirpation of the pre-Buckleyite American right, which repaid McCarthyism ten dollars on the dime. If you imagine an America in which Communism suffered the same fate as McCarthyism, you imagine a very, very different America.

    Perhaps the most diabolical instance of this Poland-invades-Germany syndrome was the legal-realist movement, which in the 20th century converted the Anglo-American common law from asset to liability. The legal realist reasons as follows: the vast right-wing conspiracy (TM) does not really believe in natural law and textual interpretation, but is a big liar and legislates from the bench for reasons personal, venal, or conspiratorial. Therefore, we, the Left, are suckers if we don’t fight just as dirty and spin just as hard.

    Qui vult decipi, decipiatur. As Voltaire said, if you can make a man believe absurdities, you can make him commit atrocities. The VRWC is really no more or less absurd than its Jewish counterpart. There are no Elders of Zion, and nobody dances on Halliburton’s strings. But there is a Left, though it is a movement rather than a conspiracy. And the Left, in power, must pretend to contend against some great, imagined enemy, which it naturally models on itself.

    Ie: there is a Structure. There is no counter-Structure. But the leftist, knowing his own world, finds it very easy to visualize a symmetric and opposite edifice in loving and fabulous detail. In a word: he projects. It’s only human.

    (…)

  5. Hunter,

    I bet you’ll keep posting. If you were going to stop, you would have already.

    I hope you do. Such a looooonnnnngggg goodbye.

  6. It is, what’s the right word – “dispiriting,” that’s it – to spend as much time as I was hanging around and responding to WNs all the time on the internet.

    I haven’t quit writing. I have just redirected my efforts elsewhere.

  7. The comments that the SPLC has been getting, which are almost universally negative, confirms my view that the majority of White people in Alabama hate the SPLC and do not take them seriously.

  8. The SPLC is a joke that no one listens too but the axis left of evil in our nation. I spoke with a state supreme court judge recently about how he takes cases that use SPLC or ADL definitions for evidentuary if he gives it any weight, “He Laughed”, there a joke he stated and he added I find my self leaning immediatly towards the other party ina poastive decision. So I have faith as I have had this conversation with many white judicuary advocates, there silent but outspoken when they know they can trust you.
    The other fact is this we need not use any label it is the ideas we are winning it is what is happening, in Wi with our white private sector working class right wing familys stepping on the socialist necks of the marxist who want to bankrupt us and not just financially.

    AND THEY HAVE GONE IN TO HIDEING FOLKS.. THE LEFT IS HIDEING HAA HAA.. THE RIGHT ELITES DEFINE THE SPLC AS A TERRORIST HATE ORGANIZATION.. AMEN AMEN AND AMEN
    YES WE ARE WINNING AND WHO NEEDS TO USE THE WORDS WHITE?
    WE CAN AMONGST ARE SELVES..

  9. Hunter,

    What makes you think you won’t get those self-referential questions if you are just pro-White instead of White Nationalist? You are doing the enemy’s work FOR them. You are cleaving the pro-White movement in half and de-legitimize the WN and “more extreme” group. This is PRECISELY what Dr. David Duke stoned the infiltrators of the Amren meeting for doing. Zionists joined up at Amren to try to turn WN away from criticizing Jews or Israel, and then point the finger at the other cleavage and call them Nazis and anti-Semites. Thus, when Dr. Duke mentioned media control (no mention of Jews explicitly), lo and behold, a Jew popped up shrieking at him and called him a Nazi. Then Jared (“Jefferson quotation about no truths being held back except for those regarding Jews”) Taylor had to issue his Jewish apology letter.

    I don’t know if you realize it or not, but eventually the same thing will happen to you or anyone else that promotes White interests. How do you not understand this?

    What you need is a consistent message (“Anti-racism is a codeword for anti-White. You’re just saying I’m racist because I’m White”) and repetition of the legitimacy of speaking in the White voice (“As a White man, I think/want/need/feel”).

  10. I think your efforts to mainstream White interests are extremely important. But bashing your more radical supports is insane. They’re not going to go away if you write blog posts about them.

    What you can do is DIRECT them into White talking points, and HELP them advocate their positions in a clear, positive, and unassailable manner. See

    http://www.nationalsalvation.net/
    http://whiterabbitradio.net/?page_id=26

    Bashing the costume-clowns just enrages them more. Why not teach them how to make their points effectively?????

  11. QH,

    (1) I have been operating in two different worlds: the WN world and the conservative world. I have plenty of experience interacting with ordinary people in this area.

    When I operate as a conservative, I don’t get the usual “yes, but” questions about anti-Americanism, Nordicism, Neo-Nazism, anti-Christianity and so forth. None of those things are associated with “conservatism.”

    They are associated with the WN brand. White people in Alabama and Georgia see Jeff Schoep and Matt Hale on “Nazi America: A Secret History” on the History Channel and assume all WNs think and act that way.

    It doesn’t occur to people around here to ask you about Neo-Nazis if you simply present yourself as a social conservative opposed to immigration. The new Gallup poll about ideological strength at the state level came out this afternoon:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/146348/Mississippi-Rates-Conservative-State.aspx#2

    48.3 percent of Alabamians are “conservatives” – the third highest ranking in the country. 16.9 percent of Alabamians are “liberals.” Most of them are blacks.

    If you just say you are a conservative opposed to immigration, instead of a WN opposed to immigration, you won’t get bogged down trying to get over the hurdles of partisanship and negative stereotypes about “vanguard” racialists on the internet.

    (2) That’s funny.

    The enemy being the SPLC just labeled OD a “hate group.” I am hardly “doing their work” for them.

    White people in Alabama associate with WN with all of those things above … because that is the face of WN in the public mind. Far from denying the “vanguard” publicity, the MSM almost never misses an opportunity to publicize their activities.

    Like I said before, when I was in Virginia, the Roanoke Times must have chopped down the whole George Washington National Forest to publicize the Bill White trial. His little Neo-Nazi outfit in western Virginia got more free publicity than any other political operator in the area – fringe or mainstream.

    Bill White probably has more name recognition than the Tea Party there.

    (3) I look at the WN movement from a cost/benefit perspective. There is a discernible cost to being associated with the “vanguard” in my region whereas there is no benefit derived from such an alliance.

    It is a huge unnecessary obstacle to communication.

    (4) I don’t waste my time anymore on people who “name the Jew.” I have seen them “name the Jew” almost five million times now over ten years to absolutely no effect.

    People who don’t grasp the importance of racial identity and changing demographics are not going to get the Jewish Question. What’s more, people who shoot their mouth off about the problem in cyberspace aren’t doing anything about the matter anyway.

    What can you do about the Jewish Question in a movement that can’t even organize itself in the real world? Absolutely nothing.

    (5) Because the “same thing” is not happening to me.

    Most people in my area (1) are pro-White, (2) understand racial differences, (3) oppose immigration, (4) oppose outsourcing, (5) dislike affirmative action, multiculturalism, and racial double standards, (6) dislike the SPLC and (7) dislike the federal government and the mainstream media.

    These are all 50 to 70 percent issues with White people in Alabama and Georgia.

    Instead of wasting my time with 1 percent issues and a 1 percent label that attracts 1 percent personality types, I can work quite openly in the real world to advance the 70 percent issues, without disruption and with an investment that grows over time.

    (6) Why is it insane to point out that WNs have a communication problem?

    That’s the real problem. It’s not like White people in this country are looking forward to their racial dispossession or enjoy racial discrimination and unemployment.

    How many times do you have to hear “yes, but” to process the message?

    (7) I have no plans to waste any further of my time on costume clowns or the people who share their ideology.

  12. I have never seen where compulsively “Naming the Jew” is particularly beneficial to White Nationalism. For one thing, it deteriorates into what I call Judeophobia which inevitably leads to paralysis. If they are some monolithic, omnipresent, all-powerful, evil, but supernatural force, then what is the point of offering up any resistance whatsoever?

    For another thing, it’s not like the bulk of Jewry are Crypto-Jews. They pretty much fly their banner openly. Quite a few of them look like ethnic Jews and have pretty distinctive names. Even to the most casual observer, there are a high number of these people concentrated in certain professions like the media and finance fields.

    Mussolini’s fascist government got a lot of support from Italians, because he “kept the trains running on time.” So, much as most White Nationalists wish the number of Jews in positions of authority would be a call to arms for the average White person, the vast majority aren’t going to give a damn if they do a good job. And if they don’t, like the traditional media, well…one newspaper after another is bleeding red ink and folding. I think that has a lot to do with their anti-White bias.

    Things are not yet uncomfortable enough for White people to equate the dire straits the country seems to be heading into with some kind of vast Jewish conspiracy. Besides, there have been too many White front men and/or collaborators involved to point the finger at Jews alone. I think these front men are a better group to focus on.

    Though I am sure that he had some Senator Chosenstein or other helping him come up with this monstrosity, I have no problem whatsoever scapegoating Orrin Hatch for the DREAM act. If some Jews are swept up in any political purge, that’s an added bonus, but until we can teach our race traitors that there are severe penalties to come from collaborating with our enemies, then there is no point to WNism.

    The biggest mistake WNists throughout history have made is to focus on White-hating Jews than the Whites who collaborate with them. Once these front men figure out (the hard way if necessary) that there is nothing to gain and everything to lose by collaborating with anti-White activity, then it will end.

    This can start by gathering the data on every elected White official who has played ball, exposing them to the White community, and then taking them out of power. Since we have so many treacherous Whites willing to infiltrate White Nationalist groups so they can monitor them, then WNists need to return the favor and dig up all that they have done to undermine the race.

    We may not see Mr. and Mrs. White America rioting in the streets, but as Chris Darden pointed out, “Whites don’t riot on the street; they riot in the ballot box.” The Tea Party activists were great examples of pissed off White people determined to purge against every Congressional Hill fat cat who had worked against them. THIS is a base that can be exploited.

    That’s step one; step two is harassing them into their graves via lawsuits and liens. It’s worked like gangbusters for all kinds of organizations, like the Church of Scientology. There is nothing to be said that it can’t work for us against the weasels who work against us.

  13. Hunter, congratulations! Not that long ago, I would’ve expressed sympathy with having incurred the wrath of the anti-Americans at the SPLC. But now that the mainstream conservatives are coming to the same conclusions we arrived at years ago, being hated by the SPLC means you have arrived.

    You are also right on white nationalism, as opposed to race realism. In its own way WN is as fundamentally flawed as communism is its presuppositions. After all, race realism’s biggest enemies are just as white as its biggest opponents. While race is important as biology, most people identify in ethnic rather than racial terms.

    What we race realist conservatives need to do is to celebrate the traditions and people of whatever part of the country we find ourselves in. At the same time, we need to separate ourselves as much as possible from the fascists and Nouvelle Droite who take pride in separating themselves from the very people we need to reach. Fascism doesn’t work with much of anybody, and while Nouvelle Droite might have some currency on the continent, it is as objectionable to Southerners as communism.

    I hope you reconsider your decision to quit this website. Yours is a voice we need to spread a more realistic brand of conservatism far and wide.

  14. All attempts by US Conservatives, whose record of conserving White values would represent an egregious breach of any Trades Descriptions Act, will be met by unending Holocaust propaganda courtesy of our eternal racial enemies. But good luck, anyway, HW.

  15. “The typical White person in Alabama and Georgia agrees with us on the important issues – the 70 percent issues – like immigration, affirmative action, and multiculturalism. It is this package deal of 1 percent issues (and the negative framing surrounding them) that derails the WN message into irrelevancy.”

    If that’s true, they don’t have much to show for it.

  16. I know this area well.

    The Whites who live in Alabama and Georgia suffer from poor leadership, a lack of any viable alternative to the status quo, and a media blackout that isolates people. Those are not insurmountable problems.

    As for the White Nationalist movement, it is an obstacle to organizing people in this area and getting them to act in ways to reverse their decline. The Alabama state legislature is now in session and moving fast on immigration reform.

    The vast majority of Whites in Alabama dislike immigration, affirmative action, and multiculturalism, but there are a dozen different dealbreakers attached to the White Nationalist movement (most prominently anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, Neo-Nazism, and anti-Christianity) that deter people around here from taking any interest in the subject.

  17. Hunter,

    I would suggest that you find a normal, honorable Christian Alabamian who loves America, knows nothing about Jews, and is glad Hitler lost the war. Then, give him this advice:

    I would suggest that you attend the next town hall meeting of your local Congressman or Senator. (…) During the question and answer period, go to the microphone and say: “Congressman, I am concerned about the tide of non-white immigration, and the low white birthrate in this country and around the world. I’m concerned that our race might become extinct.”

    If your Alabamian friend follows your advice, see how he will be shouted down, how the guard will be instructed to come and take him out of the room, because he has committed an act of hate by suggesting that his race should be anything other than exterminated.

    (Adapted from a TOQ online article by Sam Dickson: A Modest Proposal)


    HW: “anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, Neo-Nazism, and anti-Christianity) that deter people around here from taking any interest in the subject.”

    Not true! What deters people is obviously the anti-white intimidation by the system.

    When normal white people behave as is they were anti-white, I say to myself that they have been brainwashed. But deep down, they are pro-white! In any case, we know that most people are against immigration and don’t want to live near non-whites.

    In fact, Sam Dickson is too much of a pessimist, as he says himself. In some cases, I hope it would be possible to publicly ask one’s local representative what he thinks should be done about race-replacement, and not be shouted down. But it would take courage.

  18. Armor

    I understand your points, but I see the situation as a question of becoming effective communicators, knowing how to reach different White audiences and be persuasive, reach the hearts and minds of all types of very different White Americans.

    Study A.H. and note that he dressed differently, talked differently to different White German audiences.

    Check out the very effective propaganda movie Triumph of the Will. The movie doesn’t come off as hateful, extremist and there are 0 negative references to Jews.

    We must learn to do the same.

    Now take this hypothetical public forum where the Congressman opens the floor to questions by voters.

    If the guy are our side and simple rephrased the question in a way that did explicitly mentioned race, but addressed the facts about immigration – he would have been applauded by the people in the room – not thrown out.

    We all need to practice public speaking and talking one to one with other Whites. If you/we are getting constant negative reactions, the problem is us, not regular Whites.

    Our issues presented in the right way are very popular with regular Whites.

    Just oppose mass immigration from non Western cultures from common sense economic and cultural perspectives. Mention 9/11/01 as what happens when we let anyone in to the USA – don’t try to sell pro Muslim extremist message to regular Whites on the grounds that Al Qaeda hates Jews, hates Israel – so they should be our allies.

    When opposing mass immigration, put yourself on the side of regular American workers trying to earn a living wage, present the truth that mass immigration really hurts low skilled Black Americans causing crime, high rates of welfare use.

    Site other progressive, prosperous nations like Denmark, Norway, Switzerland and yes, even Israel that have strict immigration policies. Strict immigration laws are good as are strict environmental laws – we don’t want to destroy the US environment or make our cities and towns any more crowded, polluted, more problems with gangs, drugs etc.

    So come on! You can do better in communicating with regular Americans. We can all do better.

    14 Words

  19. I for one look forward to being able to tell Hunter “I told you so,” when he realizes the utter futility of advocating for WN causes through conservatism. Hunter is right, the vanguard will never get anywhere, but at least they have convictions. Does Hunter actually believe he can make any progress toward the development of white nationalism through conservatism?! Hunter likes compiling lists, so let us consider the facts:
    1. Conservative ideas are rooted in academia. There is nothing akin to Nouvelle Droite in this country and as long as that remains the case, no conservatives will espouse even remotely WN ideas.
    2. Conservatism is heavily funded by corporate interests, the same corporations benefit from the importation of cheap labor, globalization, and expansion into untapped (diverse) markets.
    3. The conservative establishment depends on votes from minorities, and will for the foreseeable future, since a significant minority of whites vote democrat.
    4. There is no precedent for Progressive reforms being overturned once enacted, even by conservatives.
    5. Decreasing the flow of immigration will only prolong inevitable demographic change. Conservatives cannot even broach segregation or repatriation.
    6. Illegal immigration will continue to persist as long as it’s not punishable to small business owners, the people most likely to vote conservative.
    Hunter sees the world in black and white (no pun intended), the way forward involves neither vanguardism, nor conservatism. Even the Bolsheviks, who spent the early part of the twentieth century robbing banks, understood that to start a revolution and to gain power in a capitalist society requires the accumulation of vast wealth. It goes without saying that the Jews understood this too, and while everybody goes on about Soros, Rothschild etc., what we need to be doing is emulating them. When WN’s meet to advance the cause of promoting WN ideas they will face the wrath of every liberal organization in this country, however, if they meet under the innocuous precept of accumulating wealth in order to advance their ideas, without discussing their ideas openly, nobody will care. If anybody reading this wants to advance the cause of WN, work your best to accumulate wealth, be as ruthless as possible, destroy anybody or anything that gets in your way; if you are not tempted by materialism, than you can wield more power than congressmen and foreign leaders. If over time we can create a network of wealthy enterprising WN’s, then and only then will we be in a position to change political discourse in this country and in the west as a whole.

  20. The splc and adl are superior to the vbulletin wn message forums.

    In a battle between a wn message forum and the adl, I would back the adl. that’s how bad I hate those people.

  21. Armor,

    I could do things your way, the WN way, and probably get a negative reaction in a room full of strangers who I don’t know personally.

    OTOH, I could take the same message, do it my way, and receive a positive response. Most people here are opposed to abortion and gay marriage. Men dislike the divorce laws. Both men and women regret the crumbling of traditional gender roles.

    If I simply told people that we need to be less materialistic, have more children, deport illegal aliens, and cut legal immigration, everyone in the room would agree.

  22. I interact with people here on a daily basis.

    I have enough experience pushing our ideas to know what works and what doesn’t. People here grasp racial differences. They are instinctively pro-White. Almost everyone dislikes multiculturalism and immigration. Most dislike the federal government.

    The things listed above (and the negative aura surrounding them) are what deters people who should be sympathetic to White Nationalism from joining the movement. They can’t get past the fact that the White Nationalist movement is obsessed with Jews and Nazism while simultaneously being passionately anti-American and anti-Christian.

    If you dropped those clear albatrosses, which serve no purpose but to deter millions of people who should be our core audience, focused on the winning issues and effective communication, you could successfully organize people in this region.

  23. Blofeld,

    Personally, I think the “convictions” of the “vanguard” are ridiculous, and being associated with the them is nothing but an albatross and liability for WNs, an unnecessary burden that everyone who organizes under that label carries on their back.

    (1) Conservatives won’t touch WN ideas in large part because the “vanguard” does such a spectacular job of making those ideas radioactive to ordinary people. They can take a perfectly mainstream idea like cutting legal immigration and make it sound absolutely nuts to people who are already in agreement with their position.

    There isn’t any WN movement either. A bunch of people venting their frustrations in cyberspace is not a movement in any true sense of the word. Every single bit of the pressure, both externally and internally, put upon conservatives to change their ways comes from the Left.

    (2) The vast majority of conservatives in America recognize and understand the negative effect that the Cheap Labor Lobby has upon the Republican Party and immigration policy. This is a source of considerable resentment.

    Instead of attacking conservatives, especially on a point where their is widespread agreement (typical WN behavior, finding some way to polarize the masses against us where there ought to be no polarization), we should take advantage of public opinion to turn grassroots conservatives against big business.

    (3) The GOP and the conservative movement are not the same thing. The Republican Party doesn’t depend heavily on minority turnout. Even in the cases where non-White Republicans have been elected, they almost always lose the non-White vote to Democrats.

    The conservative establishment is also disliked by most of the conservative base.

    (4) Gun control, welfare, campaign finance reform, various immigration laws.

    (5) Granted, WNs broach those subjects, but all they do is talk about these things on the internet, which is just a way of wasting time and entertaining themselves. That’s all they have done for almost fifty years now.

    The effective result of that is like I said above: all the pressure on conservatives comes from the Left and none from the Far Right. So the political spectrum mysteriously always moves to the Left.

    (6) As for making a ton of money under ostensibly mainstream purposes, which can be done quite openly, that’s a good idea and I have no objection to it. Like I said, if you subordinated rhetoric to action, instead of the other way around, you could conceivably make progress.

    WNs always elevate rhetoric and ideas – mere words and abstractions – above action and practical results. More than anything else, that is why they are stuck where they are at today.

  24. I’m glad you are done with this wn bullshit.

    When you closed down odessa syndicate and then started trying to gain acceptance from Linder and Vnners, I seriously in the back of my mind was thinking that you were a serious loser.

  25. Hunter,

    1. There are plenty of extremists and neo-Nazi’s in Europe (far more than in the U.S.) and yet there are very prominent anti-liberal movements there. Furthermore most people in the U.S. have never heard of the vanguard, during rare instances when they are publicized the media focuses on their extreme views like their anti-Semitism. It seems preposterous to me to suggest that vanguard types are to blame for the lack of anti-immigration sentiment in America.

    2. That’s all well and good, but “the vast majority” don’t have the resources to oppose corporate interests. “Vast majority” is a bit of a stretch, most people approve of having a slave-underclass; do you think most people want their kids picking raspberries and washing dishes? Also, the left have already monopolized being opposed to big business.

    3. I suppose that’s why John McCain ran commercials in Spanish during the last election cycle. Most politicians in Washington play politics, if you can increase the voter pool, you increase the percentage of votes that you get; as long as America remains a democracy that isn’t subject to change.

    If most conservatives feel disenfranchised by the Republican Party, why do they continue to vote for it? Also, what’s to say that they will ever be able to exert pressure on the Republican Party if they haven’t already?

    4. This was my mistake I should have phrased my point better. What I meant to say is: When (in the history of modern Western democracy) has any government granted rights to a group of people and taken those rights away?

    5. Even if you were able to completely eliminate immigration, how would that lead to a White Nation? Sure there would be fewer minorities, but I seem to recall that you lived in an area where the majority of people were minorities, since most are citizens that wouldn’t be subject to change. Without an academic movement or financial pressure WN’s will never be able to achieve their goals, because there is simply no other way for their opinions to become mainstreamed.

    6. Also you didn’t address my point that small business owners, those most reliant on illegal immigration, in many respects form the base of the Republican Party (along with corporations who are also reliant upon illegal immigration).

    7. Another point that I didn’t address above is that social conservatives will continue to vote mindlessly for republicans (no matter what their overall beliefs) as long as they receive support on minor issues (like abortion), since there is only one alternative.

    I don’t want you to get the impression that I support the vanguard, but they suffer from the opposite problem as the conservatives. On the one hand the vanguards want a white nation, but are too hopelessly inept to actually achieve it. Conservatives on the other hand can achieve anything, but they wouldn’t benefit from a white nation. The goal of WN’s should be able to advance the cause of White Nationalism, while being pragmatic, level-headed and smart. I agree that many of us waste time on the internet, but it does serve its purpose and recruit people (including me) to our side. I feel that the best course of action is the one I outlined above, since it’s the only way we can advance actual white nationalism in a practical fashion.

    I’m going to be busy over the next few days, so if you do respond to my post don’t expect a speedy reply.

  26. Being listed by the $PLC is a badge of honor for Occidental Dissent and everyone associated with it, notwithstanding HW’s anti-Vanguardist stance. But, as indicated by the general course of American politics – the conservative wing of the Republican Party is increasingly opposed to non-white immigration – his stance is operationally correct and effective. The ZOG will be brought down only by a hardright coalition involving many issues and groups.

  27. Ernst,

    (1) While it is true there are plenty of “Neo-Nazi groups” in Europe, it is also true that the “mainstreaming” process is far more advanced there, especially in Britain and the Netherlands.

    Likewise, it is also true that fascism is a dealbreaker for European nationalists as well as American nationalists, and promoting it only serves to narrow our potential audience. Most of the European nationalist parties have repudiated fascism. In some cases, this happened decades ago, and the result has been a relative improvement in their standing with the European public.

    I also completely disagree that most Americans have never heard of the “vanguard.” Granted, no one but a few people on the internet refer to the “vanguard” as a collective identifiable subset of White Nationalists, but everyone in America is familiar with the Klan, Neo-Nazi groups, skinheads, Hitler worshipers, conspiracy kooks and so forth.

    “White Nationalism” is synonymous with the “vanguard” image in the American public mind. The media goes out of its way to reinforce that association at every available opportunity.

    They do this self consciously because they know that “vanguardism” is repulsive to Americans whereas most WN ideas – opposition to multiculturalism, affirmative action, racial double standards, and immigration – are quite popular and are capable of gaining traction.

    The media associates WN with the “vanguard” to attach these 70 percent issues to 1 percent issues in order to destroy WN. They also publicize the “vanguard” at every available opportunity.

    When I lived in Virginia, the Roanoke Times spent months publicizing the Bill White trill. They did this deliberately to associate WN with Bill White’s Neo-Nazi group in order to make WN look repulsive to ordinary White people in western Virginia.

    The reason most racially conscious Whites and White people who are opposed to these popular issues (20 to 70 percent of White America) refuse to join the WN movement is largely attributable to the negative association with the “vanguard.”

    (2) This is false.

    If you look at the Obama campaign, or the Ron Paul campaign which is more familiar to WNs, you will find that small donors contributed the lion’s share of their money. There is nothing stopping WNs from networking with ordinary people, creating a political base, and using it to raise money – nothing but their own bad ideas and empty rhetoric.

    It could easily be done.

    The polls have repeatedly shown for decades that the White majority (you know, the “lemmings”) is opposed to amnesty for illegal aliens, blames the federal government, wants to cut legal immigration, opposes affirmative action, opposes the federal government, distrusts the MSM, dislikes multiculturalism and so on.

    The White majority is alienated from Obama and the Left. Only 36 percent of White America supports Barack Hussein Obama. Believe it or not, the overwhelming majority of White people don’t have maids and servants. They cut their own grass, wash their own dishes, cook their own food, etc.

    I manage to do all these things myself. So do most people around here.

    The problem that the WN movement is facing is apathy and double alienation: the White majority might be alienated from the political class, but that doesn’t mean it is sympathetic to WN.

    (3) John McCain won a bitterly divisive primarily and handily lost the election because so many Republicans refused to vote for him. He even managed to lose North Carolina and Indiana. That is also why the GOP was blown out in Congress in 2006 and 2008.

    White conservatives were irate about immigration and spending at the time. They don’t support those things. Disillusioned voters stayed home and the result was sweeping Democratic victories.

    It’s a complete and utter lie to say that conservatism and the GOP are synonymous – the GOP repeatedly betrays its own base, which is why the base (if you follow sites like Free Republic) loathe the GOP establishment.

    Why do conservatives vote for the Republican Party?

    – Because they perceive the Democrats as being worse. That is true on most issues.

    – Because the Republican Party is divided on immigration. There are Republicans who are corporate whores and plenty who are not.

    – Because the WN movement is stigmatized and repulsive and hopelessly disorganized and unviable.

    The identifiable problem within the GOP are the pro-business Republicans. Populist conservative Republicans can and have defeated the pro-business Republicans on numerous occasions. It is only a matter of matching the power and organization of organized special interest groups.

    (4) Plenty of times.

    In the Early Republic, blacks had the right to vote in most states, even in Southern states like North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee. They lost those rights in the early nineteenth century.

    In the Reconstruction period, blacks ruled several Southern states with the aid of the Republican Party and Union Army, but they were later overthrown and were completely driven into submission.

    The U.S. has a long history of granting rights to minority groups and taking them away, whether it be the Chinese in California, the Hispanics in New Mexico, or blacks in the South.

    The rise and fall of the Jews is well known. Compare Weimar Germany to the Third Reich to the Federal Republic or the dozens of other examples where Jews have risen to power only to be expelled at some later date.

    (5) Expelling illegals and cutting off legal immigration would be a damn good start. It would give us crucial time to regroup and organize ourselves to turn things around before the situation gets out of hand.

    The mere struggle to expel illegals and cut legal immigration will also be so racially polarizing that it would radicalize moderates to our side if it were pursued thoroughly. Blacks started off with obvious grievances like taking on lynching in the South.

    Taking on immigration is no different. The White majority supports that and it is a powerful issue to organize and rally them around.

    And yes, I live in an area that is majority-minority. The census recently came out and found that blacks were leaving the Alabama Black Belt en masse due to high unemployment and poverty. The black counties of West Alabama have lost around 60,000 people since 2000.

    WNs have no shortage of “ideas” – what they lack is a message that can effectively communicate those “ideas,” the means to distribute that message, and the legitimacy for that message to be taken seriously.

    Vanguardists have utterly no interest whatsoever in rallying the White majority to WN. Their goal is to load WN down with as many dealbreaking “sidetrack” issues as possible (in particular, fascism and violence and nihilism) in order to polarize the White majority against WN.

    (6) I track all the Rasmussen and Gallup polls about immigration and they consistently show that the majority of Republicans and the vast majority of conservatives are opposed to immigration by about a 70 percent to 30 percent margin.

    The pro-amnesty constituency is dwarfed by the populist conservative constituency.

    (7) That is directly contradicted by the fact that the GOP lost control of Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008 and the Tea Party was successful in defeated most pro-amnesty Republicans and forcing the remaining ones to vote against the DREAM Act last year.

    Why did that happen? If conservatives love immigration like you say they do, why do the polls say the exact opposite? Why are those people like Jeb Bush trashed on conservative websites? Why are they attacked on talk radio? Why are they defeated like Robert Bennett or Arlen Specter when they run for reelection?

    Probably because that simply isn’t an accurate assessment of the situation: you got a White majority that is against immigration and a Republican establishment that supports it. The two sides frequently clash for that reason.

  28. The whole point of being a radical is to organize moderates and lead them in a more racial direction. An organization of radicals is nothing more than a support group for alienated people.

  29. Any real and legitimate “vanguard” is the spearhead of a mass movement – radicals leading moderates toward some type of social goal. A real “vanguardist” is someone who organizes moderates and who understands that it is his job – his responsibility – to interact with and lead his community toward his chosen destination.

    The communists wrote the book on the subject.

    By contrast, the WN movement has a bunch of alienated people attacking moderates (i.e., the audience) and pretending to be aristocrats and anointing themselves with fake titles (i.e., Hasta Primus of Creativity) on the internet. They are mostly imposters and hucksters selling a fake rhetorical radicalism.

    All they ever do is fantasize and talk with other fantasists. Dealing with these “radicals in rhetoric only” is a complete waste of one’s time. It is psychologically demoralizing.

  30. Hardcore communists, of the revolutionary type, generally believe in influencing mass opinion but not in democratically influencing mass opinion. If you took a poll at the time of the Bolshevik revolution, the Bolsheviks would not have won the vote for most popular party. That did not stop them from taking power.

    I think the most hardcore communists support their movement on its face value – to take power.

    It’s just much easier to believe that capitalism is ruining the world then it is to believe that Jews are ruining the world.

  31. See hunter, I believe in keeping the circle small but not for the same reason as vanguardists.

    Vangaurdists are losers. White nationalist and loser are terms that mean the same thing. They are small because they are incompetent.

    I believe in being a winner. That means I weed out losers.

  32. It makes no difference.

    I didn’t used to think that Hitler was 1/4 Jewish, but DNA evidence has now proven it. And if it’s on your father’s side, it doesn’t “count” socially.

    The point still stands. The “Jewish question” is the talk of losers who are incompetent. There is not a single word of truth behind it. All bullshit. Everything that is blamed on Jews can be blamed on greed and opportunism.

  33. What someone points out someone else’s ancestry in a debate, what they are basically doing is using a get out of jail free card.

    It’s basically saying “don’t listen to this guy, because he is too unbiased to tell the truth.” But it’s the truth.

    We can now see with Hunter Wallace’s failed attempts to join the vanguard that Ian Jobling and Guy White were right. I support Hunter against his enemies, but it should be clear that he was wrong against those two people.

  34. and the movement deserves to be attacked.

    I have seen its tactics. It’s a movement of losers. I have seen the forums, I have seen the petty infighting, I have seen the pathetic “naming the Jew.”

    LOSERS!

  35. People calling up my family to harass them, contacting my employers, getting personal information high into google results in an attempt to cause trouble for me in my private life. Sexual degenerates too. Every white nationalist is a pedophile or a child porn collector or someone who browbeats people who prefer abstinence.

    I thought Jared Taylor was a step in the right direction, but even he won’t explicitly denounce the loser crowd.

  36. Who’s the loser? You post hundreds of incredibly boring and non-substantive messages on pro-white internet sites where no one likes you.

  37. now that nobody knows where my employment is, I am going to totally decimate the people who harassed me they did know.

    i will piss on every person who calls himself a white nationalist.

  38. What I think Hunter is now discovering, is that when you ask the tough questions, the loser crowd piles on you.

    Tough questions include questions like “is this the right way to do things?” “Our these leaders good leaders?” “Is being obsessed with Jews sane?”

    The loser crowd piles on the people who can see through their bullshit.

    I’ve had enough. I show people no respect. I just wrote a letter to a female calling her a slut because she’s part of the loser crowd.

  39. Why’d you retire from the pro-White movement Hunter? Have you given up on Whites surviving in the USA, Europe, Russia, etc?

    It is obvious to me that the main reason the American and general world economy is in such bad shape is because worldwide Whites are under threat, being persecuted and held down; it is clear that without Whites actively participating in the economy, former White nations sink to 2nd or 3rd world status as largely incompetent non-Whites take over — the only exception to this seems to be Asia but remember that Asiatics copied the majority of their modern technology from White nations.

    Don’t give up on White survival. If Whites do not survive the world will decline as it is inevitably swamped 2nd and 3rd world peoples. White Scandinavia and northern/central Europe in general should be model nations for the entire world: and right now they’re being overrun by non-White immigrants.

    Even Jewish and Black run CNN admits in an article entitled “Are Whites Racially Oppressed?” that Whites are currently being persecuted here and now in the early 21st Century – http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/21/white.persecution/index.html?hpt=T2 – and look at the dismal state of the world due to the rampant anti-White persecution that is happening.

    If we are to avoid a future as depicted in the novel WHITE LOTUS by John Hersey (best known as the author of HIROSHIMA) wherein swarms of Chinese/Asiatic invaders hunt down and enslave/kill Whites in the USA – http://www.amazon.com/White-Lotus-John-Hersey/dp/B000JV3JU8/ref=tmm_mmp_title_0 – we must begin to regroup and fight back very soon. Otherwise the entire world will become Asiatic — note that Shanghai is on the exact same latitude line as Jerusalem: the 31st parallel North latitude. Without reasserting themselves Whites will eventually become slaves to a ruthless worldwide Judeo-Asiatic alliance bent on racially stamping out Whites and seizing their territories.

  40. I should add to my previous comment that I do not in any way hate people because of their race — I’ve never harbored petty, mean-spirited race hatred in my heart. I do say though that Jews, many Asians, Africans, and others should look to the superbly well-run nations of Scandinavia and northern/central Europe in general as models in building and maintaining their own countries.

    Northern and Central European nations of course have problems as all nations do, but in general they pale in comparison to those of 2nd and 3rd world countries in Africa, Latin America, Asia, and so on. Every rational person of whatever race or ethnicity can agree and would prefer that the USA ought to look more like Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Germany, etc instead of Swaziland, Nigeria, Colombia, Burma, Libya, Kazakhstan, etc. In this respect certain Asian nations (esp. the Japanese, Chinese, and South Koreans) can be allies of Whites in seeking to replicate the very successful and sustainable Nordic/European model in their own countries. However, we must realize that various Asian ethnic groups already control the majority of the world’s landmass (I count Russia/former USSR as semi-Asiatic), and thus the USA should be free soil for Whites of all ethnicities to build and maintain the nation on the highly successful and superior Scandinavian model.

  41. It makes sense that screwby would support the pedophora, being the white nationalist pedophile that he is.

    You have reinforced my viewpoint that white nationalists are losers.

  42. You haven’t solidly refuted what I have had to say about the loser crowd.

    When you ask tough questions:
    -is obsession with Jews sane
    -our “white nationalist” leaders good leaders
    -is this the right way to do things?

    The loser crowd piles on you.

    You proved yourself to be part of the loser crowd.

  43. I have plenty of IRL acquaintances and friends. I was popular growing up.

    It’s only a matter of time until you are banned here.

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