Neo-Puritanism

American Thinker

Here’s a good article on Neo-Puritanism as the moral creed of Americanism:

“Alexandra Pelosi’s HBO documentary Fall to Grace tracks the evolution of New Jersey’s disgraced, self-dubbed “gay-American,” former governor, Jim McGreevey. In one passing scene, McGreevey enters a church ostensibly more welcoming than the judgmental Catholic Church of his childhood. The message board on the church front reads — and this is a close paraphrase — “Lord help us overcome the sins of racism, sexism, classism, and homophobia.”

Had the message board been bigger, the good pastor might have added nativism, Islamophobia, and xenophobia. In a postmodern world that prides itself on “non-judgmentalism,” these have emerged as the seven new deadly sins, and God help the man, woman, or child who commits one. …”

About Hunter Wallace 12390 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

31 Comments

  1. I quickly closed that link, Rudel, when I heard another of your non-White favourite musicians. Cosmopolitan musical tastes are congruent with Infidelity. The Faith is Europe (Whiteness) and thus, atheism is anti-Whiteness.

    Rather end the day with a Wesleyan hymn, though these White musicians might be liberal (I don’t know): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DftlRosRlc

  2. “I quickly closed that link, Rudel”

    Really? African Americans are quite good musicians. They do got dat rhythm after all. Your selection was strictly squaresville and quite Germanic in tone if I do say so.

  3. Yes, their style is a little Germanic. I would post a more melodic Cymric version if I find one. Good night all.

  4. “The Faith is Europe (Whiteness) and thus, atheism is anti-Whiteness.”

    A total non-sequitur. I do applaud your sophisticated ear that discerns the Germanic modal style though.

  5. NYYankees,

    “Dan, I wasn’t implying that you were jewish”

    So what the hell were you implying when you posted the pics of that soldier and said to me, “Your Chosen People” won’t wring another ounce of privilege out of the blood of another innocent White man.”?

    “But you aren’t 100% White like me, that’s for sure.”

    “I was speaking figuratively, not in some literal DNA sense.”

    If I’m not “figuratively” as White as you just because I’m severely critical of certain whites, then you’re in the same boat. You hate White Southerners as much as I do Northerners, only unlike me, your reasons for hating them derive from your Cultural Marxist “anything goes” worldview, a worldview that everyone here has called you out on.

    “If you have a people you don’t need DNA tests.”

    Like it or not, we are of the same race – the White race – and we come from similar parts of the country. The Midwest isn’t quite as liberal as the Northeast, but it’s got the same insufferable SWPL culture. I added 5 minutes to my life with each post I read on “Stuff White people like,” as its the ultimate lampooning of SWPL’s – the people I know and grew up with. They are, by definition, “my people.”

    Although, I look a helluva lot more ‘aryan’ than Mr. WASP supremacist.”

    The original Puritan settlers of 1620 were WASP’s. I firmly believe they are the root cause of egalitarianism, multiracial democracy, and everything else we despise as White Advocates (or White Racialists). For this and many other reasons I don’t have time to get into, I’m not a WASP Supremacist.

    What I am is an ethnonationalist. I believe that all White ethnic groups, whatever their shortcomings, deserve their own homelands which are exclusive to their own kin. Just because White Anglo-Saxon Protestants have many flawed cultural shortcomings (individualism, the so-called “rule of law,” obsession with MORE money and material stuff, etc) doesn’t mean their nations deserved to be flooded with hostile foreigners. The Irish and the other White Ethnics were all of them foreigners. They belonged in their own homelands.

    Horrible things happen when borders aren’t respected. Imagine a homogeneously white suburban neighborhood where everyone can just move into each other’s houses at will. Individual families would have nominal ownership of these houses, but they can’t stop their neighbors from moving in and staying there. There wouldn’t be peace. There would be endless conflict.

    Such is the situation in regards to European immigration. We all know bad things happen when White countries are flooded with non-whites, but it’s not much better – if its better at all – when one White ethnic group is flooded by a mass blob of other white ethnics. Tom Sunic has warned about this repeatedly. He brings up Yugoslavia all the time as proof positive that you CAN’T have multiple ethnicities of the same race sharing the same country like you have with the SCREWnited States.

    Your Irish people belong in Ireland, NYYankees. Just like the Italians belong in Italy, the Poles belong in Poland, etc. Is that really such an awful idea?

  6. Tom Sunic has warned about this repeatedly. He brings up Yugoslavia all the time as proof positive that you CAN’T have multiple ethnicities of the same race sharing the same country

    That is clearly bullshit. Yugoslavia may be failed example but that model has succeeded splendidly on many more occasions than it has failed. If Yugoslavia had toughed out the economic malaise of the late 80s and the subsequent transition to communism as a unified state it would still be unified to today and, thanks to to greater prosperity and increased communication, there would have been vastly greater levels of interethnic appreciation among its peoples than at any previous time.

  7. Your Irish people belong in Ireland, NYYankees. Just like the Italians belong in Italy, the Poles belong in Poland, etc. Is that really such an awful idea?

    It’s not an awful idea. It may indeed be a fantastic idea, but life is just not that simple. People move about and have always done so, and most people in the receiving lands haven’t cared overly much about it. The main reason that “Italians” and “Poles” and “Englishmen” exist is because people in earlier times – who had no notion of “Italian” or “Polish” or “English” – moved about and that few people in the receiving lands cared overly much about it. You can spend the rest of your life bemoaning it but it is what it is. It would be one thing if you were granted dictatorial power to determine who should belong where and could enforce your edicts but real life doesn’t work that way. If you want to achieve some greater degree of ethnic ‘infeeling,’ cultural unity, and racial homogeneity and preservation, then you have to work with the way the world is, and what people can or will support. You can’t just scream at them that they’re wrong or immoral and that only you possess knowledge of the one right way to live.

  8. Dan the Divine decrees:

    “So what the hell were you implying when you posted the pics of that soldier and said to me, “Your Chosen People” won’t wring another ounce of privilege out of the blood of another innocent White man.”?”

    That you are a philosemite. And that you would psychotically promote one of The Chosen speaking for WHITES while simultaneously suggesting I, a WHITER person than you, be somehow burned at the stake for merely pointing out how much your adopted people hate Whites, particularly white southerners. And that Michael Murphy was a beautiful irish man who was murdered by zionists. And that he wasn’t a coward or a bitter geek…

    Stix has called pro-Whites ‘white supremacists’ on several occasions. He also either lied about Chris Newsom’s autopsy report or received a different version than a friend of mine did, who claims there most definitely occurred sexual mutilation. This jew’s people (NYC and NJ jews and jews generally) say the most unconscionable things about whites and especially white southerners and yet you defend him and them and even say he/they can speak to issues concerning whites (much less advocate for them)?

    You’re so backwards I wouldn’t know where to start. You claim I hate southerners. Where is your evidence for this? Have you ever lived around these jews you claim love whites so much, especially white southerners? I think not. The midwest is way more liberal than the northeast; you’re just too ignorant to realize that given that you’ve never lived out here. The s*** that comes out of the midwest shocks me, and I get info from people all over out there. Anyone could read or watch the insanity coming from out your way and then compare how little of that comes from the northeast. I’ve been flabbergasted by the midwest’s total insanity since first encountering the pro-white sphere.

    You are not only not white as I, given that you’re at least 25% slav, but, further, you’re spiritually corrupt. I know better blacks and hispanics than you. Heck, I know better sorta jews than you.

    I’m only part irish. The rest is germanic scottish english stuff. So exactly where do you plan to fit the ‘mutts’ that abound in America in your bizarre little ‘ethnonationalist’ schema? I’m at least one race, and we northwestern europeans are a distinct race unto ourselves, regardless of how much you hate your parents.

    You speak from a place of profound ignorance, irrationality, and impracticality.

  9. Silver, Yugoslavia’s most violent clashes occurred around issues of religion/ethnicity. Integrating muslims with european christians is different than integrating european christians with other european christians, contrary to Dan Poole’s unfounded assertions.

  10. Silver.

    “Yugoslavia may be failed example but that model has succeeded splendidly on many more occasions than it has failed.”

    Like WHAT? The Hapsburg Empire that everyone tried to break away from in the 1800s? “Unified” Britain that included Scotland and Ireland and that came apart after WW1? The kingdom of Norway & Sweden that dissolved into a Civil War? Even Charlemegne back in 800 couldn’t keep his mighty empire from coming apart along ethnic/tribal lines.

    Name me a model for multiethnic unity that lasted long-term. I’ll bet any that you can think of was held together by brute force, just like Amurrika.

    and, thanks to to greater prosperity and increased communication, there would have been vastly greater levels of interethnic appreciation among its peoples than at any previous time.”

    A liberal wet dream if I ever heard one. Create a middle class job for everyone, get them living together and talking to each other, and voila! Peace on earth!

    The world doesn’t work that way Silver. Conflict is the norm, and the “prosperity” of which you speak is a utopian dream no matter how much these fraud politicians ranging from Ted Cruz to Chuck Schumer say otherwise.

    “People move about and have always done so, and most people in the receiving lands haven’t cared overly much about it.”

    1. The centuries long, continent-wide warfare between warring “barbaric” tribes after the fall of the Roman Empire proves that people in the receiving lands VERY MUCH CARED about the foreigners moving into their lands. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have fought back against the invaders and would have been like, “yippie! New neighbors!”

    2. If mass immigration and the complete disrespect of borders is the natural way of the world, and if this immigration should be allowed to take its course as you argue, than on what moral grounds do you oppose White countries being flooded with non-whites? ESPECIALLY considering that the majority of Whites in most of those countries have no problems at all with non-white immigration as long as its done “legally”?

    3. I get that people have moved around a lot, but its rarely peaceful. Hence why I bought up the analogy of the suburban neighborhood. A system where everyone can move into everyone’s house or country is rightly called Communism. Good borders and high fences make good neighbors and cooperative countries. Period!

    “The main reason that “Italians” and “Poles” and “Englishmen” exist is because people in earlier times – who had no notion of “Italian” or “Polish” or “English” – moved about and that few people in the receiving lands cared overly much about it.”

    No, actually, there was almost always conflict when those tribes banded – especially in war torn Eastern Europe. In any case, most of the ethnic groups of Europe today have been around for almost 1000 years. And as I said before, most of those tribes were forged from two or three other tribes (Angles + Saxons + Franks, for example) that shared similar cultures and lived in similar areas. You can’t compare that to Amurrika, where millions of stupendously low class peasants with no relation to each other were dumped all at once and expected to “assimilate.” The result is sour milk. Or, as Andrew Fraser put it in the Occidental Observer:

    Taylor also worries about the negative impact of miscegenation—but only the racial mixing of Whites with Blacks, Hispanics, or Asians. He is not concerned that the Anglo-Saxon race is being “denatured” by mixing with other phenotypically White ethnic groups. He is not alone in this unconcern. Greg Johnson of Counter-Currents Publishing is especially blasé. Indeed, he celebrates the “blending” of European ethnicities into “White Americans.” (ed note: This is a misreading of Johnson’s position, but Frasers point is well taken nonetheless)

    But, speaking as someone concerned with the decline of the Anglo-Saxon race, the difference between “blending” and “mongrelisation” is not at all clear. Johnson suggests that the only solution to deeply entrenched inter-European racial animosities requires the elimination of inter-European racial differences.

    Surely, homogenized “White” individuals who straddle and blur established ethno-religious boundaries should be objects of pity rather than models to be emulated. Are not such people detached, spiritually and genetically, from any really existing European race?

    Germans, Italians, and Englishmen: all can and should reproduce, each according to its own kind. Blending together different White racial groups in a quest to breed generic Europeans is to create a deracinated population of ethno-hermaphrodites.

    The thin, attenuated nature of such a rootless White identity reinforces its essentially negative character. To be White mostly means that one is not Black, Asian, or Hispanic. Small wonder then that, as Taylor observes, many Whites believe that their race has “no valid group interests, so it is illegitimate for them to attempt to organize as Whites.”

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/10/vanishing-anglo-saxons-jared-taylors-white-identity-and-the-crisis-we-face-part-1/

    “You can spend the rest of your life bemoaning it but it is what it is.

    You celebrate the endless mixing of the various White tribes, and yet you fail to see how interethnic mixing leads to interracial mixing leads to the end of the White race.

    “If you want to achieve some greater degree of ethnic ‘infeeling,’ cultural unity, and racial homogeneity and preservation, then you have to work with the way the world is, and what people can or will support.”

    I’m open to suggestions. If you have any. I think Europe will ultimately save itself because ethnic identity there is still alive, albeit marginalized. I’m not so sure about North America.

    “You can’t just scream at them that they’re wrong or immoral and that only you possess knowledge of the one right way to live.”

    In regards to White Americans, there’s no going back anyway. The best thing to do going forward is for the USA to dissolve into separate nation-states where, perhaps, new ethnic groups can be forged. Dixie stands out as an obvious example of this. The Midwest could perhaps be another. Texas, if doesn’t join Dixie, would be another. I’m not claiming to know how it would shape out, but I know this: White Americans are NOT an ethnic group. We’re a deracinated, mongrelized tribe of Europe. Is it any wonder Europeans across the continent look down on us and thumb their noses at us? Even the nationalist movements think we’re a joke because we don’t have a real identity to speak of – except, that is, for the artificial identity of the marketplace, an identity that Jack Donovan masterfully deconstructed at the Amren conference.

  11. Silver why not ignore Dan Poole’s ridiculous rants. They’re based on fictions and add nothing here.

  12. Name me a model for multiethnic unity that lasted long-term.

    Switzerland, since 1291. I count six distinct Swiss ethnies: German Protestants, German Catholics, French Protestants, French Catholics, Italians and Romansh. As far as I know, none of these groups wants to secede from Switzerland.

  13. The suburban princess says:

    “That you are a philosemite.

    I bought up Gottfried and Stix because you were like, “oh noes! The nassssty commenters on Amren make raycisss comments against blacks!!” So I pointed out the easily observable, ironic fact that a handful of Jews write pro-White articles whereas ZERO blacks do so with the exception of Elizabeth Wright. Whether Stix, et all, are being sincere with those writings is irrelevant to that point.

    “And that you would psychotically promote one of The Chosen speaking for WHITES”

    I promoted no such thing, but whatever. You have such a one track mind with the JQ that anything short of a 45 degree salute could come across as “philo-semitism.”

    “You’re so backwards I wouldn’t know where to start.”

    Your SWPL creds are on display yet again. You see it as your duty to “fix” “backward” Whites like me, Hunter, Dalton, and damn near everyone on here. Too bad you can’t prescribe me anything, seeing as you don’t believe in pills.

    “You claim I hate southerners. Where is your evidence for this?

    Without digging into your candy land of comments sprayed like a shit stain across this site, how about the one where you demanded that dirty creepy sexist Southern men keep their hands of Northern white women? How about your repeated attacks against Southern women with traditional values? SWPL’s like you have no shortage of “backwards” White people to hate, and Southerners are at the top of the menu!

    “The midwest is way more liberal than the northeast; you’re just too ignorant to realize that given that you’ve never lived out here.”

    Make up your mind on the Midwest. Is it full of Jerry Falwell’s or Noel Ignatiev’s? In any case, I don’t really disagree on the rest of what you said about the Midwest. Where do you think my hate for the North comes from?

    “You are not only not white as I, given that you’re at least 25% slav”

    Hate to burst your bubble again, but Slavs are pastier than Germanics – especially the Poles, many of who are pastier than even the Scandinavians or the Celts.

    “but, further, you’re spiritually corrupt.

    Says the atheist chick that promotes and defends feminism and homosexuality? Have you ever had a husband? Do you have any White children? You’re at the age where you should have had both by now. You’ve got zero grounds to preach to me about spiritual corruption.

    “So exactly where do you plan to fit the ‘mutts’ that abound in America in your bizarre little ‘ethnonationalist’ schema?

    Seeing as there’s no reversing the damage, I suggest further damage be prevented. The different regions of the country, particularly Dixie, could and should become their own ethnostates/nation states, as I explained a bit in my comment to Silver. Immigration from EVERYWHERE would be reduced to levels that make the 1924 act seem like a tidal wave. New White ethnic groups in North America could be forged out of that.

    “I’m at least one race, and we northwestern europeans are a distinct race unto ourselves, regardless of how much you hate your parents.

    So why did you spend all that time defending Eastern and Southern Europeans in my comments about White ethnics? You DO know most of the immigration from Europe between 1890 and 1924 was from those two regions, right?

    You contradict yourself so often its embarrassing.

    “Integrating muslims with european christians is different than integrating european christians with other european christians, contrary to Dan Poole’s unfounded assertions.”

    Tell THAT to the Protestants and Catholics during the 30 years war. Tell THAT to the Irish Protestants who were as opposed to Irish immigration in the 1840s and 50s as the fucking WASPs were (the overwhelming majority of those immigrants were Catholic).

    Dixiegirl, if you’re reading this, than do us all a favor by correcting this rich spoiled suburban princess on her “Catholics and Protestants can get along just fine” shtick.

  14. Jeppo,

    Fair enough. So what makes you think the Swiss model can be transplanted to the rest of the White race? Don’t you think there’s enough examples of ethnic conflict tearing apart multiethnic kingdoms and empires that the tribes should just stay in their own lands? If two tribes want to come together like the Angles and Saxons did, that’s one thing. But NOBODY in Anglo-Saxon America wanted the tidal wave of White ethnics to come here. Today in the 21st century, the Poles are reviled in England because they can immigrate at will without the English being able to do a damn thing about it. Nick Griffin has talked about this, if I’m not mistaken.

  15. The reason why mature people shouldn’t bother debating with Dan the Boy-Man Poole, is because he fabricates his ‘facts.’ Just one example: the eastern europeans were actively recruited to come to the US during the late 1800’s to mine coal, as were other european groups (the eastern europeans were considered especially controllable, however), by the anglo saxons.

    He’s also using Rudel as a source for his characterization of my socioeconomic status and background. That alone should disqualify him from the arena of reasonable debate.

  16. “the eastern europeans were actively recruited to come to the US during the late 1800?s to mine coal, as were other european groups (the eastern europeans were considered especially controllable, however), by the anglo saxons.”

    What a load of shit! Corporations wanted cheap labor (when don’t they?) But to assert that the majority of Anglo-Saxon, native born Americans were cool with White ethnics flooding their homeland is absurd! Why do you think the 1924 immigration law was passed? Why do you think there was always violence and conflict in the urban cities during that era? Why do you think the Immigration Restriction League, Grant, Stoddard, etc. became so popular? Did you know it was a Massachusetts senator that led the fight against European immigration? Even the original Yankees didn’t want them around!

    Go ahead and believe your delusional WN fantasies that Whites everywhere are just fine with Whites elsewhere flooding into their lands, but history belies you. Hell, modern day reality belies you! European nationalist parties are UNANIMOUS in their opposition to the EU, whereas those who embrace “pan-Europeanism” see the EU as a prototype for White unity.

    How dense can you be??

  17. NYYankees,” Eastern Europeans were considered especially controllable”? Oh? Then why did most of the people who became members of the Communist and Socialist parties were Jews and Gentiles from that part of the world?

  18. Here are some actual facts on immigration into the US from around the time of the Revolution and beyond:
    http://salempress.com/store/samples/american_immigration/american_immigration_history.htm

    Here’s just one story of a non-english founding family:
    http://irishamerica.com/2007/10/the-first-family-of-irish-america/

    Germans were here in significant numbers and influence well before the Revolution, especially in Pennsylvania. The dutch settled colonial NY, NJ, and several other areas as the main founders. The swedes got in a few places first but were shoved aside.

    I assume everyone knows this, but to read Dan’s scribbling one would think the only people who founded the original thirteen colonies were ‘anglo saxons,’ who, BTW were supposedly only the episcopalians, not the entire umbrella of protestant english, etc., who came in the colonial era.

  19. Dalton I assume it was believed that the eastern europeans would be at a disadvantage in the US as non-northwestern europeans who also didn’t speak english. I didn’t make the decision to target them specifically for coal mining labor.

  20. So what makes you think the Swiss model can be transplanted to the rest of the White race? – Dan Poole

    It is said that necessity is the mother of invention. That whites haven’t allied with each other in the past does not mean they won’t the future when they realize survival is at stake. Before the protestant reformation, the white world was largely spiritually unified in that they adopted and shared a common myth. There is precedent for whites broadly unifying behind a shared ideology or worldview while maintaining cultural their cultural and ethnic distinctions.

    My sentiment is that Lothrop Stoddard put forth the framing that people need to understand in The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy. Stoddard understood that rest of the world thinks in terms of “people of color” versus European and Diaspora European (often referred to as Stoddard does as white for convenience). Implicitly, literally the whole world thinks in terms of white versus non-white except us white folks.

    I wouldn’t make too much of obvious cranks like NYYankees. The woman has her moments, but she has put forth too much nuttery to be worth those long responses. She has a trolling agenda of some kind.

  21. Lew, the fact that that video Brad just posted wasn’t ‘yankee anti-southern’ isn’t trolling. Neither is pointing out that most anti-white propaganda isn’t yankee-generated. Your comment is ironic as it bolsters Dan Poole’s perception of my position.

  22. So what makes you think the Swiss model can be transplanted to the rest of the White race?

    What makes you think it couldn’t? I think the Swiss system works because the country is so decentralized and each ethno-religious group has its own territory (the various cantons) where it alone reigns supreme: German Protestants in Zürich, German Catholics in Lucerne, French Protestants in Geneva, French Catholics in Valais, Italians in Ticino and Romansh in parts of Graubünden. There is very little “official” bilingualism or other sops to minorities at the cantonal level there. If you are from Romandie (French-speaking Switzerland) and want to move to Zürich expecting to be served in your home language, you will be SOL.

    And citizenship is taken very seriously there. Even though more than 20% of the population are foreign legal residents, very few of them are–or will ever become–Swiss citizens. It took Tina Turner (international celebrity, multi-millionaire, long-time legal resident, married to a local, fluent in German) more than 20 years to become a citizen there, and that was a rare and special case. All male citizens of Switzerland are conscripted into the army there and spend most of their adult lives in the reserves. With great rights come great responsibilities, etc.

    Through citizens initiatives and referenda, the Swiss people–not the politicians, judges or bureaucrats–make all the important political decisions themselves. And what may be good for an urban area like Basel may not be for a rural district like Glarus; hence the all-powerful cantons keep the federal government perpetually weak and decide the vast majority of issues locally. That’s why I see the Swiss system as a successful real-world model for both the EU and the US: extreme decentralization, direct democracy, meaningful citizenship and cultural autonomy.

  23. My purpose here is to point out to southerners that the northern whites were not nor are presently the architects of their demise. It’s been incredible to have had to deal with jewish and black anti-white attitudes, which derive from their anti-southern ones, and then have to countenance southern blame of northern whites for that jewish and black anti-white hatred.

  24. Oh and Lew, the european nationalist Dan extols, with the exception of New Force, do the exact opposite of what LoS is doing vis a vis social issues. The greeks, the irish, the british, even the swedes do not allow fetishes to be made of social issues. I happen to know some of these people and have talked about it with them.

    Because they love their tribe, they refuse to indulge lithums tests or crucibles around social issues to be erected that only divide. While they’re all ‘conservative’ in some way (and not in others) they simply do not allow these types of crusades over non-ethnic issues to become their main platform.

  25. Ticino is hardcore. They led the vote against the EU position on that immigration referendum. The mixed polity Republican model works.

  26. Occigent,

    That depends on if she’s attractive and doesn’t have kids. (=

    Lew,

    My conclusion from Stoddard’s “Rising Tide of Color” is that White Solidarity is dead and isn’t coming back. That said, it also gives me hope -however feint that hope – that if it existed before, than perhaps it can exist again.

    Jeppo,

    I don’t think the Swiss model can be transplanted because other European nations, particularly the Eastern ones, have a history of centralized governments as opposed to decentralized, and monarchy & aristocracy (or some form of hierarchy) as opposed to direct democracy. There’s also the fact that cultural clashes are so common in multiethnic nations. Even the Norwegians and the Swedes couldn’t coexist peacefully.

    Switzerland’s model is unique to Switzerland. I’m happy it works for them, but there’s one example after another of multiethnic Kingdoms/Empires/Nations falling apart, and that’s way too many for me to believe a superstate of any sort is a practical idea for our race. In the same way that White/European civilization cannot be transplanted to non-whites, the Swiss model cannot be transplanted to the rest of Europe. Besides, the ethnonationalists in the various nations hate it when a foreign model is prescribed for them. For example, they all see White Nationalism as just another version of American hegemony. They loath the idea of the “White melting pot” that is so eulogized here in the U.S. by White Advocates.

    The different White countries require their own unique solutions based on their own circumstances. There is no one size fits all model, and there certainly isn’t a model that can be enforced on them without their consent like too many WN’s propose.

  27. NYYankees,

    According to the 1790 census, the population was 80% White, 20% black. The English/Anglo-Saxon population was 60%. This means that 3/4 of all Whites in that census were English. The Germans, Swedes, and Dutch were minor contributors at best (no disrespect to those three tribes)

  28. Dan,

    I think you’ve completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make and totally misread my own feelings about the issue. You asked me for examples of long-term multiethnic unity, but my point wasn’t related to long-term multi-ethnic societies, it was related to ethnogenesis. England at an earlier point in time wasn’t known as “England” and it wasn’t populated by “Englishmen,” and the same holds true for every European nation I can think of: all were populated at one point by disparate (though usually very closely racially related) groups who, over time, came to regard themselves as ethnic wholes.

    I didn’t claim incursions by other groups were not resisted at all; I claimed that few people cared overly much about it -certainly not enough to make a life-or-death issue out of it. We have the example of Spaniards and Balkans groups keeping the flame alive long enough that they eventually succeeded in driving the invaders out altogether, but those are exceptions that prove the rule and were obviously aided by cultural antagonism and political oppression. Absent those ingredients disparate groups elsewhere very quickly – in the grand scheme of things – melded into new wholes. These processes never work quickly enough to satisfy those with the most heightened (probably inborn) ethnonationalistic sensibilities – like those of us posting here – but that only proves that such sensibilities are uncommon among the masses.

    You accuse me cheering on the process of intermixing but that is very far from my feelings about it. Indeed, if I had a magic wand I dare say the world I would conjure up would not be much different to the one you or Andrew Fraser would. My eldest cousin married an Englishman. To say I wasn’t much enthused by it would be quite the understatement. They had children who resembled the father vastly more than they did my kind. Although they were nice enough kids I couldn’t help feeling that it would have been so much nicer had she married someone racially closer to home. Her brother married an Irish girl. In this case the children resembled my kind much more than they did the Irish. Although they are sadly quite clueless about the particulars of their cultural background their racial likeness has endeared me to them much more than to his sister’s children. The third cousin in that family was a complete disaster – she married an Asian man and had children who are practically complete gooks. Her children are the friendliest of the bunch but I find the racial barrier impassable. They’d never suspect I feel this way but frankly if they were hit by a truck tomorrow I doubt I’d shed a single tear.

    I think that should clear up any misconceptions you had about my feelings towards mixing. But so what? As strongly as I feel there is virtually nothing I can do about it. The process is continuing and will do so whether I want it to or not. Bitter experience has taught me that the great bulk of people simply cannot be reached on this basis. Even in cases where I am all but certain they agree with me, demanding they take an explicit stand causes them to back away and, not uncommonly, reconsider their feelings. I’m sure many an activist has experienced similar results.

    I have concluded the only way out of the jam is either to make my peace with mixing or to reach out to and cooperate with as many outsider groups as possible on the basis of our mutual desire to create ethno-racial apartness. I’m doubtful any of us would be truly satisfied with the initial “end result,” but it would be a great start and we can of course always kill each other later. For all your apparent disagreement with me your last paragraph suggests you feel much the same way. If so, fantastic. Let that be your criterion for judging the worthiness of a racial opinion rather than one’s position on historical rights and wrongs.

Comments are closed.