Curtis Yarvin: You Can Only Lose The Culture War

I strongly disagree.

It would be easy for the Hobbits to kill the Elves. In this scenario, the Elves would be the coastal elites – the Jews and White women with graduate degrees and professional class jobs who populate the upper ranks of the Democratic Party – who live cozy little lives in the suburbs in the Acela Corridor. I doubt it would even come to that because those people wouldn’t even try to rule us by force.

Gray Mirror:

“The customary color-coding of the culture war is boring. Let’s get Tolkien-pilled and talk not about red and blue, but hobbits and elves. (While not forgetting the fact that for the two centuries before 1980 or so, red—the color of anger—was the color of the left.)

We know who are the hobbits and who are the elves. We know who is on top and who is on the bottom. (Of dwarves and orcs, we shall not speak.) We know what the elves want: they want to live beautiful lives. We know what the hobbits want: they want to grill and raise kids.

Dear hobbits: you can only lose the culture war. Even when elves use political power to impose elf culture on you, you cannot use political power to impose hobbit culture on elves. …”

If push were to ever come to shove, they would lose badly.

Who would fight for the people who live in the Hamptons? #TheResistance from the Trump years? How would they subdue the tens of millions of people in the Heartland who are heavily armed and homogeneous and who live in geographically continuous communities?

These Elves rule only due to the fact that the system still retains a small degree of legitimacy. This is evaporating faster than a fart in the wind. These people go out of their way to shred all the narratives and destroy the symbols that used to identify the ruled with their rulers. The “mainstream” was much more powerful in the past in that it is today and has been receding back toward the coasts for two generations. A tiny handful of elites in New York and Los Angeles are no longer steering the wheel of American culture. Vast swathes of the country are no longer listening and tuned them out a long time ago.


  1. “If push were to ever come to shove, they would lose badly.”

    Natural forces will convulse ‘diverse’ societies.

    • We as Whites still have a lot of power, we just don’t know how to use it or don’t want to use it out of fear, guilt or maybe we are not fed up yet. Time is on our side but not for much longer. We can’t afford to keep playing defense.

      • “We as Whites still have a lot of power, we just don’t know how to use it or don’t want to use it out of fear, guilt….”

        Laziness ?

        • @Arrian…

          “We as Whites still have a lot of power, we just don’t know how to use it or don’t want to use it out of fear, guilt….”



          Also a lack of willingness to admit we’ve been wrong; also a great deal of distractionism, also a lot of decadence in our ranks, also still a lot of misinformation and disinformation.

          Moreover, we still have little to no representation in schools,mass media, or the movies.

          There is a lot to overcome, as this power against us has been very well entrencht for at least 3/4 of a century.

          The citizens of this country has been subject, over the last century, to the greatest mind control system ever devised.

  2. Part of destroying your enemies is by divide and conquer and in a war between the White Christian/WASP population and the Jewish elite along with their allies, causing division between those college degree holding White Women & their Jewish masters is one sure fire way to ruin the Jewish foothold on White people.

    We can practically do this by telling these White women that they are being exploited for their beauty and intelligence by these Jews who will dispose of them once they have done what they wanted making them no different from a used tissue.

    But if said White women joined the fight for White racial solidarity and nationalism; they won’t be exploited for anyone’s individualistic benefit but will have a greater purpose and be considered an equal member of the race that holds a very important role not just bearing children but also that they, being an anatomically & genetically different, from their so-called Nonwhite & Jewish allies which is an unknown fact that is proven here, are preserving a differential & special genetic legacy that is constantly & currently under attack by Nonwhite People who would otherwise view said White women as meat instead of people as all the sexual assault against them by Nonwhites has shown time and time again.

    So, Whites will win the culture war if they do this with White women as well as other meebrs of the White race,

    • Think of Harvey Weinstein’s casting couch writ large. What does the white bitch get in return from Harv-the-Hutt and his fellow devil-slime? Bitch-slapped and tossed aside for a later model, and maybe any kids sent off to be groomed for Epstein’s pleasure island of its successors (you can be damned sure there’ way more than the one). The “beautiful life”, huh? Just birds in gilded trailer-parks at the end of the day.

    • “We can practically do this by telling these White women that they are being exploited for their beauty and intelligence by these Jews who will dispose of them once they have done what they wanted making them no different from a used tissue.”

      What planet are you living on? Good luck, don’t underestimate the enemy, they have the magic machine of Hollywood, TV, even TV commercials. You’d need to do this as a gut level, subliminal on a constant basis. They do this and the constant message people are bombarded with is the white, christian, traditional American is always a horrible villain and something to be feared. Watch how so many white women in the more brainwashed places (misnamed “educated”) reject white men in primaries for a female candidate because they instinctively don’t trust white men from their programing and can’t fathom to vote for “the evilest class of human being.”

      The PMCs are running a campaign against natural law and will eventually fall, but will the point they become so weakened by their insanity be where outside forces come in and take over the continent from them and what’s left of traditional America? They think the country can still work with Hindu and Chinamen engineers taking place of the white boys who they turn into pot smoking, video game playing losers banned from the professions. These snakes will bite their masters by turning over all of their secrets to their own people as deep down they hate their PMC white and jewish masters and want to see their homelands grow strong the way that Chinaman turned over all our nuclear secrets to the PRC a couple decades back.

  3. “they want to live beautiful lives”:

    Unlike the mythical Elves, these elites, “who is on top,” don’t produce anything they need, and are served by masses of Hobbits, “who is on the bottom.” It turns out their lives are not beautiful after all.

    “Of dwarves and orcs, we shall not speak”:

    Yes, of course the system does not admit how it corrupts the people. Most of these idle drug and sex addicts, angry and greedy refugee-immigrants, and petty criminals are created by the usury and bad example of the White-collar-criminal Upper Class.

    “It would be easy for the Hobbits to kill the Elves”:

    The Hobbits will not rise in revolt because: (1) they lack class consciousness and revolutionary vision, which the Elves make sure they will never develop, steering their minds to consumerism, pursuit of wealth (such as lottery winning) and fear and hatred of foreign “enemies”; and (2) they are a completely mixed and atomised population – mixed culturally, religiously, ethnically and racially — extremely easy to divide and rule, incapable of lasting union.

    • If we had real White revolutionaries/freedom fighters, there would be a rush amongst Whites to turn them in to the system. Mostly, because, heaven forbid!, a revolution might inconvenience them (or shockingly, the optics might be bad!) Whites have been lazy and cowardly for quite some time and the POC sense the weakness and exploit it. The longer this goes on, the harder it’s going to be to fix.

  4. The elites have been bringing in millions of non-white immigrants, and have been inciting them against whites, with the hope that they would do their dirty work or them. But will economic immigrants with no group cohesion, be prepared to die for American soil, or these coastal elites? I don’t think so. The only chance they have is if they build a robot police force and army.

  5. When presumption is wrong, then everything after is also wrong. Ruling Elite is not elves, they are lumpenproletariat.

    Term invented by Marx and Engels with storng warning that you shall never try revolution with lumpenproletariat. They fuck up everything.

    Yet we have Macron and Trudeau and Ze and lot of other filth how have artifically made Elite. Adult stateman Joe and wise young genius Greta Thunberg. And all those professors and Hollywood and Nato who’s leader Jens Stoltenberg only military experience is throving Molotov coctails in Antifa ranks.

    Elves are currently removed from power and hiding in hobbit communities. What we need is remove bolshevist filth and give pover back to elves.

    • They fancy themselves to be elves though. Moldbug is probaby one of (((them))), so he’s congenitally incapable of understanding that no matter how hard he tries – he’ll never be an elf, just schlomo the filthy ragpicker – irrespective of how much fake-money he has. A big part of our task in this war is to get more and more folks to see that those posing as the “Grand Emperors” in “magnificent robes” are really nothing more than a company Gen. Butt-Nakeds.

  6. Elves don’t have many children either. Hobbits do. In Tolkien stories, the elves had a beautiful culture that was fascinating to the others in Middle Earth. Todays “elves” have a morally debased and ugly culture. More like orcs. People make Yarmin statements into more than is warranted. Augustine, Plato, Confucius, or Machiavelli he’s not……..

  7. How will the elves exert power? Exactly as they do now. To continue the Tolkien analogy a bit further, they would use Gondor and Rohan to fight for them. The police at all levels, plus the alphabet agencies, are arrayed against us. It’s meaningless to compare the pathetic martial attributes of your average leftist because when they speak it is not backed up with personal strength. They speak with the full might and backing of the government.

    • The fact he’s got us talking about elves and hobbits and not snickering uncontrollably at the asinine absurdity is a not so subtle subversion.

  8. Your Christ will not defeat us….

    He is saying the Jews are going to destroy the country rather than submit to the will of Christ.

    Go ahead, do it.

    • The Orcs in last Ring Bearer were the rational human beings. The unreliable narrator decided to make them non human. The Elves bred themselves out of existence anyway.

  9. Moldbug was interesting, if overrated. Yarvin is not interesting and he’s not relevant. He’s been wrong about pretty much everything since he came back.

  10. “the Elves would be the coastal elites – the Jews and White women with graduate degrees and professional class jobs who populate the upper ranks of the Democratic Party – who live cozy little lives in the suburbs in the Acela Corridor”

    They’re also the upper ranks of the republican party. They have have most middle class suburban areas across the country. They control the military and the police, the media, and they have foreign support from Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan (at minimum).

  11. Maybe not entirely off topic …
    (“An Idaho abortion law draws a Justice Department lawsuit”)

    So—what have I been saying here recently, at Occidental Dissent? It’s the MONEY.

    Would you doubt that? Not even six full weeks have passed since the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and lo and behold, from the article above:

    “The Justice Department brought the suit because federal prosecutors believe Idaho’s [abortion] law would force doctors to violate the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, a federal law that requires anyone coming to a medical facility for emergency treatment to be stabilized and treated, [Attorney General Merrick] Garland said.”

    Hmm. “… anyone coming to a medical facility for emergency treatment …” Is that correct? “Anyone”? Anywhere in the U.S.?

    From Wikipedia — at — with my emphases:

    “The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) is an act of the United States Congress, passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospital emergency departments THAT ACCEPT PAYMENTS FROM MEDICARE to provide an appropriate medical screening examination (MSE) to anyone seeking treatment for a medical condition, regardless of citizenship, legal status, or ability to pay. Participating hospitals may not transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment except with the informed consent or stabilization of the patient or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.

    “EMTALA applies to “participating hospitals.” The statute defines participating hospitals as those that accept payment from the Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) under the Medicare program. BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY FEW HOSPITALS THAT DO NOT ACCEPT MEDICARE, THE LAW APPLIES TO NEARLY ALL HOSPITALS. The combined payments of Medicare and Medicaid, $602 billion in 2004, or roughly 44% of all medical expenditures in the U.S., make not participating in EMTALA impractical for nearly all hospitals. EMTALA’s provisions apply to all patients, not just to Medicare patients.”

    If you think you can vote yourself money by voting for “social programs” or socialism or communism under any other name—including “social democracy,” which, I must note, is favored by our host here, at Occidental Dissent—you are mistaken. There is no such thing as socialism, which is a non-concept. There is no such thing as voting yourself money. When you vote for any of these things—“student loans,” “national health care,” etc.—what you are voting for is the government’s grip on your wallet; and while you’re thanking Jesus for the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the government will make use of that grip. The government doesn’t need Roe v. Wade when it has its hand on the money of virtually every hospital in the country.

    I don’t want to hear about your honor, your culture, your values, your spiritual whatever. ITMF (“It’s the money, friend.”)

    • “There is no such thing as voting yourself money.”

      The richest people in the world all do exactly that. That’s why they’re rich and you’re a broke chump carrying water for them.

      • I’m not broke. I’m living off the Social Security that’s coming out of your wallet. (God knows I barely contributed a penny to it myself.)

  12. Brad, FYI the save email etc. cookie thingy doesn’t seem to be working. I have tried several platforms.

  13. Didn’t Sarah Silverman make an elf movie? Mr. Yarvin, you are one hundred times more like Sarah Silverman and Peewee Herman than you are like JRR Tolkien. And you they were more consequential than you are, as well. The “hobbits” can’t stop the groomer elves, you say, eh?

  14. From Hungary – an interview with the leading authority on The Jew England Yankee World Order – Dr. Janos Drabik, as interviewed by Mr. Toroczkai Laszlo – the head of the Hungarian Nationalist Party, ‘Mi Hazank Mozgolom’.

    Subtitles in English…

  15. Tokyo Rosenberg Yarvin is just peddling demoralization propaganda – and lamely recycling the “Eloi vs Morloks” stuff that was already going around in the aughts. He’s been repackaging old takes for going on ten years now. Moldbug’s original contributions began and ended with “the Cathedral,” such as that was.

    “Let’s see, Mr. Thiel wants me to demoralize the opposition to globohomo. They like LotR. How about I portray them as Hobbits, the least powerful and least numerous of the races in Middle Earth and portray Globohomo as the angelic, eternally powerful Elves? That will shut some of them down. And let’s say that all they want to do is grill, not put me and my relatives on boat and ship us to Israel with everyone we know from Wall Street and D.C.”

  16. “The Jew England Yankee World Order”

    This is likely the best name ever for the whole gaggle of enemy forces lined up against us

    maybe “Puritan” and “Classical English Liberal” should have been included but other than that it´s damn near perfect

  17. Meanwhile—a battlefield report from the Christian Nationalist front …

    “TOPEKA, Kan. (WIBW) – Kansas voters protected the right to get an abortion by voting ‘no’ on a proposed amendment to the state’s constitution on Tuesday.

    “Many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle weighed in on Tuesday’s election results.

    “Kansas Senator Roger Marshall released the following statement: ‘Words could never express the sadness and emotion myself and many Kansans are feeling after the Value Them Both amendment was not adopted. This is an enormous blow to efforts to protect the sanctity of life in Kansas. Too many times I’ve seen sadness and hurt, without an explanation why — this is one of those moments. While I don’t have an answer, I do know that God works all things for good for those who trust him.'”

    This is a grown man. In the first electoral test of anti-abortion forces, not six full weeks after the overturning of Roe v. Wade, a pro-life amendment goes down in flames; and the conclusion that forms in his addled mind is, in effect, that that’s what the God whom he as a pro-lifer serves wanted.

    These are the Christian Nationalists we’re asked not to scorn.

  18. “Who’s going to fight for the people in the Hamptons???” MMA fighters, gang bangers of all stripes (including Hells Angels) organized crime… and general degenerate tough-guys that like hedonistic pleasure seeking eg sex, drugs & fighting.

    Embracing Christian Nationalism would turn at least half of whites heavy hitters (physically) in a SHTF scenario against yourself.

    MMA fighters are vaguely right wing in the sense they’re probably “sexists” (acknowledge men & women are different) or “homophobic” (they don’t want to hangout with gays in their personal life) but they’re also completely hedonistic pleasure seekers. If you said the average MMA bro- hey you can live in a country without gays or feminism BUT in our new country we won’t allow drugs or casual sex… the average MMA bro, Hells Angel or even Aryan Brotherhood is going to be fighting on the side of the “coastal elites.”

    I’m from the middle of the country and NO ONE wants Christian Nationalism… as far as a whole community is concerned- majority of WEP’s out here believe in the separation of church and state and even those who morally agree don’t want to use the state and the other half doesn’t want to cut off their own vices

    Most Americans want to feel centered in their own communities (understandable) but none of them want to live a “degenerate free” lifestyle. They simply want their vices to be accepted (and yes for many rural whites that includes weed and party drugs like MDMA) and for queers and feminist degeneracy too be out-of-sight.

    But if you were to go up to the average redneck in my state and say fight with us we’ll ban all drugs, prematerial & contraception etc… or you can fight with drag time story hour…. They’ll fight with/for drag time story hour.

    • “They simply want their vices to be accepted (and yes for many rural whites that includes weed and party drugs like MDMA) ….”

      This reminds me of a statement I once saw attributed to writer Tom Wolfe, though I’ve never encountered it in anything written by Wolfe himself. As recorded in my memory, the statement is to this effect: The trappings of the counterculture drifted down to the working class, where they lost their hippie meanings.

      It was around the year 2000 maybe, while I was with a relative who was refurbishing a suburban Philadelphia house he’d bought as an investment, that I was most emphatically struck by the accuracy of that. While I was looking out of an upstairs window of the house, I saw one of the roofers my relative had hired to repair a porch roof that had some problems. The robustly-built man, who had long hair, a headband, and, I think, a beard, was unkempt, I think it fair to say, and had plunked down beside him, on the patio roof, a large, rugged boombox, whose brand name, as I recall, was that of a major tool manufacturer and from whose speaker was coming the sound of classic rock. He was a one-man, working-stiff Woodstock, thirty years after the hippie gathering of that name.

      • @John Bonaccorsi Some of what I’m describing is human nature in any society.

        When fedora redditors say “why is(was) weed illegal but not alcohol…” they had a point when it came to direct harm, fighting etc HOWEVER that’s irrelevant. In white countries we decided alcohol was the sanctioned vice.

        In america it’s only compounded by diversity, lack of identity, lack of meaning, hollow consumerism etc

        People like to overly blame liberalism for all of American problems but it is true that Americans formulate their arguments appealing to a universal morality eg what they do isnt just different… it’s actually objectively worse. With blacks it’s easy to point to hard facts where they’re objectively worse, but that’s largely irrelevant.

        It really comes down to when I drink I’m funny and cool- when you drink you’re annoying and dumb.

        All of that is going to be culturally coded.

        It’s what I call poor peoples racism. After a long day of work and cultural friction people want to be in an area (mostly a bar) where they don’t have to second guess anything. Is this guy being an asshole or just communicates differently… it’s exhausting to always have to calibrate cultural misunderstandings (even with zero malice intended).

        And redneck culture has always self medicated with drugs as a way of coping with being over worked. Hard drugs weren’t illegal until 1911 and that was mostly a response how blacks and recent immigrants used hard drugs. With blacks they were significantly more violent but with the recent European immigrants it’s less about the “violence” they did when they were high but rather much more petty/small cultural differences and just how they acted when they were high/drunk.

        Even without liberalism people like to overplay cultural differences as cultural threats- which they definitely can be. Most of the time it’s just a pretext for policing cultural borders. Which could be appropriate or someone is just venting out their frustrations and sometimes a lil of both.

  19. Curtis is wrong the culture can be won.*

    Hunter is wrong that a civil war wouldn’t bode well for shitlibs. Every criminal organization would be on the side of coastal liberals. A modern civil war wouldn’t have a declaration of war and would be pretty much all criminal terrorists acts. In the context of modern criminal terrorist civil war established criminal organizations would have a huge advantage over vets… who do you think the Mexican cartels would fighting with???

    Committing criminal acts of political violence and the fallout following that would ensue from that is total different than being a soldier. After you’ve committed an act of terrorism you’ll need safe house networks to hide you- which cartels and criminal organizations already have AND you have to be ok living on the run for the rest of your life. Most right wingers would want to get some sort of official go authorization like in the first civil war. This time if god forbid we’re to happen… it’ll just be random acts of terrorisms that’ll have periods of “heating up” and “cooling down” but never a start or a finish.

    In the context of random criminal acts I’d bet on Mexican cartels, biker gangs and organized crime as being better capable and more willing to engage in criminal acts of violence than pissed off vets.

    Remember the system loves to pretend to be weak and oppressed. Them over exaggerating their enemies capabilities is part of their strategy- not an honest threat assessment.

    Even if I thought “my side” could win- I hope to god we don’t see a civil war. That’s never been anything I wanted.

    *Im “right wing” as I acknowledge biological realities impact human civilization- BUT I’m not a trad. In a sane world I probably wouldn’t be considered a right winger.

    I don’t prescribe to no sex before marriage* type trad dogma

    *when people were practicing no sex before marriage men married in between the ages 15-18 and girls between 13-16 depending on time and location. However in the modern context no sex before marriage could mean 25… that is extremely unhealthy, and would actually be the left wing cartoon of right wing sexual repression. Where as in the trad days people were maybe denying their sexual urges for at most a few years before starting a family. Many here would say they want earlier family formations. However even though our current system is making a bad situation worse- in a high tech society will require greater levels of education and delayed family formation and thusly a greater need for acceptance of prematerial sex.

    I use that only as a an example of why I’m not a trad, and why I don’t think you can just copy & paste traditionalism into the modern time.

  20. What is “culture war”? The main, common tradition of the “culture” of the imperial homeland is usury, the struggle of the pursuit of gain at the expense of others. BOTH the evangelicals (with very rare exceptions) and the non-evangelicals and all classes live out this same so-called “culture”:

    “The faithful have been swept from the land; not one upright person remains. Everyone lies in wait for others. Every man hunts his brother with a net. Both hands are skilled in doing evil (…) the powerful dictate what they desire (…) The best of them is like a brier; the most upright is sharper than a hedge of thorns.” Micah 7:2-3

    The limits of this so-called “culture” of the imperial homeland are defined by Twitter and other CIA-connected corporate media organs that censor discordant truth, and even publish death threats against truth-telling independent journalists, like Eva Bartlett.


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