.. and doesn’t learn a thing … blames White men for Haitian oppression.
We are not your weapons – we are women
By Amanda Kijera, civic journalist and activist in Haiti
Two weeks ago, on a Monday morning, I started to write what I thought was a very clever editorial about violence against women in Haiti. The case, I believed, was being overstated by women’s organizations in need of additional resources. Ever committed to preserving the dignity of Black men in a world which constantly stereotypes them as violent savages, I viewed this writing as yet one more opportunity to fight “the man” on behalf of my brothers. That night, before I could finish the piece, I was held on a rooftop in Haiti and raped repeatedly by one of the very men who I had spent the bulk of my life advocating for.
It hurt. The experience was almost more than I could bear. I begged him to stop. Afraid he would kill me, I pleaded with him to honor my commitment to Haiti, to him as a brother in the mutual struggle for an end to our common oppression, but to no avail. He didn’t care that I was a Malcolm X scholar. (he didn’t see her angel halo, Ed.) He told me to shut up, and then slapped me in the face. Overpowered, I gave up fighting halfway through the night.
Accepting the helplessness of my situation, I chucked aside the Haiti bracelet I had worn so proudly for over a year, along with it, my dreams of human liberation. Someone, I told myself, would always be bigger and stronger than me. As a woman, my place in life had been ascribed from birth. A Chinese proverb says that “women are like the grass, meant to be stepped on.” The thought comforted me at the same time that it made me cringe.
A dangerous thought. Others like it have derailed movements, discouraged consciousness and retarded progress for centuries. To accept it as truth signals the beginning of the end of a person–or community’s–life and ability to self-love. Resignation means inertia, and for the past two weeks I have inhabited its innards. My neighbors here include women from all over the world, but it’s the women of African descent, and particularly Haitian women, who move me to write now.
Truly, I have witnessed as a journalist and human rights advocate the many injustices inflicted upon Black men in this world. The pain, trauma and rage born of exploitation are terrors that I have grappled with every day of my life. They make one want to strike back, to fight rabidly for what is left of their personal dignity in the wake of such things. Black men have every right to the anger they feel in response to their position in the global hierarchy, but their anger is misdirected.
Women are not the source of their oppression; oppressive policies and the as-yet unaddressed white patriarchy which still dominates the global stage are. Because women–and particularly women of color–are forced to bear the brunt of the Black male response to the Black male plight, the international community and those nations who have benefitted from the oppression of colonized peoples have a responsibility to provide women with the protection that they need.
Well, basically colonization & slavery are not teh fault of whites alone because the local colored population worked hand in glove with the colonizers & slavers to capture & sell their own people into slavery.
Yep, you can deny all you want that Italians from the south have received admixture. And call those who voice disagreements monkeys at your discretion (which says more about you than it does about anyone else, since there is more than enough data to support it). It’s not as if Lynn is the only one to postulate this, anyone who has actually been to S Italy can tell you it’s a mud flood and if they say otherwise they’re being mendacious.
Euro is just another racialist poseur like Reginald.
Silver, that’s a Jewish last name isn’t it? You’re fuck, dude, nothing else to it.
“Southern Europeans are a different racial stock than Nordics. Most so called whites with dark brown eyes have a great deal of Arabic or Negroid blood and should refrain from mixing with Nordics.”
God Damn you Hitler! How dare you have had sex with Eva Braun!!!
And when you consider how extremely close even the mostly Southern Italians of America are to Germans (Fst = 0.0029), and that Austrians are probably more Med than Germans, probably Hitler wasn’t anything more than an Arab when you get down to it.
Thanks Euro,
The link you provide completely destroys Lynn’s so-called “IQ Research” on Italy:
“This time around, he’s not even using actual IQ data, but the proxy of scores on reading, math and science tests administered to 15-year-olds (PISA 2006). So he’s attempting to quantify innate general intelligence by looking at the academic performance of school kids, a measure that to a large extent involves learned knowledge and other factors. And while some researchers still argue that one is an accurate predictor of the other, one of Lynn’s own sources, Dreary et al. (2007), addressing two of his other sources, suggests that caution should be exercised in this area:
But Lynn already knows the pitfalls of his approach. Finland had the highest score in Europe on the 2006 PISA tests, and using his method leads to a calculated IQ of 107, yet he reports Finns’ IQ as being just 97. Romanians’ PISA score is near the very bottom of Europe, leading to an estimate of 85, though their measured IQ is in fact 94 according to Lynn, just three points lower than that of Finns. With discrepancies like that, there’s absolutely no reason to trust his calculated IQs of around 100 and 90 for Northern and Southern Italians. Clearly, PISA scores are not a very good substitute for IQ.
Then, to try to prove that disparities in intelligence are long-standing, and therefore genetically based, he uses literacy as another (questionable) proxy for IQ. But whereas for other correlates like stature and infant mortality he includes data from the past and present to show that the North-South gap has remained fairly stable, for literacy he only includes data from 1880, when it was extremely large (55% vs. 20%, on average). Obviously, he wants to hide the fact that the gap has been closing steadily since then, and by the 21st century, literacy among Italians under the age of sixty-five was 99.7% in the North and 99% in the South (Istat 2001).”
Would it have killed you to mention that little factoid, Lynn?
Give me a break you lousy lying Nordicists.
Just so I understand this-a black guy rapes her and it’s Whitey’s fault?
“And call those who voice disagreements monkeys at your discretion (which says more about you than it does about anyone else, since there is more than enough data to support it).”
Actually the data supports no such conclusion:
“González-Pérez et al. (2010) have analyzed populations from the northern (European) and southern (North African) shores of the Mediterranean, with Central Europeans and West Africans as external references. They estimate Sub-Saharan African admixture using two methods that yield vastly disparate results. In the Discussion section, they admit that the inflated “Alu/STR estimate might be artefactual” and favor the estimate based on the Alu loci set alone because it’s consistent with previous mtDNA, Y-chromosome and 500,000-SNP structure data.
According to the more accurate latter method, Sub-Saharan African admixture is ~13% in North Africa and “imperceptible” (~0.01%) in Southern Europe…”
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2010/01/extent-of-black-admixture-in.html
“not as if Lynn is the only one to postulate this, anyone who has actually been to S Italy can tell you…”
Phenotype is heavily correlated to climate, even in the complete absence of admixture.
The climate in the South of Italy is more like the climate in the Levantine, and would obviously produce Whites who look more Middle Eastern just based on that.
For this reason you can’t go off of phenotype as climate is a strong confounding effect.
“Yep, you can deny all you want that Italians from the south have received admixture. And call those who voice disagreements monkeys at your discretion (which says more about you than it does about anyone else, since there is more than enough data to support it).”
Your so-called “data” is strongly disputed.
“It’s not as if Lynn is the only one to postulate this”
Mr. Miggles was the one who brought Lynn up. I decided to take him down.
“anyone who has actually been to S Italy can tell you it’s a mud flood and if they say otherwise they’re being mendacious.”
You’ve got it exactly backwards, Kassy. Par for the course.
No problem Reginald. Like I said, don’t waste your talents and good nature on these clowns.
“That’s much higher than the overall IQ of 95 the same book gives for Germans, or the IQ of 96 given to the Russians.”
Funny, the Wikipedia article regarding IQ and the Wealth of Nations lists the German IQ at 102.
“Austrians are probably more Med than Germans,”
LOL! Calm down, Reggie, now you’re starting to sound like “Adam” over at MacDonald’s blog.
“Funny, the Wikipedia article regarding IQ and the Wealth of Nations lists the German IQ at 102.”
I misread the part of the chart saying “Germany,” to mean Germany, when Lynn must have meant to type “Germany, East”.
So it’s East Germany has an average IQ of 95 according to Lynn.
See here for a web version of the table:
http://www.isteve.com/iq_table.htm
On this subject the book shows 7 IQ studies for Germany, 3 for East Germany and 4 for West Germany.
Since the 4 for West Germany give an IQ of only 103, I find the overall figure of 102 hard to believe given that the studies on East Germany only found an average IQ of 95. East Germans aren’t outnumbered by West Germans to that extent.
“LOL! Calm down, Reggie…”
Captain, I think my statement was a logical inference. Swedes are further from Meds than Germans are, and Germans are so close to Swedes that they must be closer to them than Austrians are to Swedes.
Therefore it certainly stands to reason that Austrians are closer to Meds than Germans are.
Also this Genetic Map clearly shows that the average Austrian is closer to the average Med than the average German is:
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe/
And in fact the Austrian population comes VERY close to partly overlapping the Spanish population.
“Funny, the Wikipedia article regarding IQ and the Wealth of Nations lists the German IQ at 102.”
I misread the part of the chart saying “Germany,” to mean Germany, when Lynn must have meant to type “Germany, East”.
So it’s East Germany has an average IQ of 95 according to Lynn.
See here for a web version of the table:
http://www.isteve.com/iq_table.htm
On this subject the book shows 7 IQ studies for Germany, 3 for East Germany and 4 for West Germany.
Since the 4 for West Germany give an IQ of only 103, I find the overall figure of 102 hard to believe given that the studies on East Germany only found an average IQ of 95. East Germans aren’t outnumbered by West Germans to that extent.
“LOL! Calm down, Reggie…”
Captain, I think my statement was a logical inference. Swedes are further from Meds than Germans are, and Germans are so close to Swedes that they must be closer to them than Austrians are to Swedes.
Therefore it certainly stands to reason that Austrians are closer to Meds than Germans are.
Also this Genetic Map clearly shows that the average Austrian is closer to the average Med than the average German is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/science/13visual.html
And in fact the Austrian population comes VERY close to partly overlapping the Spanish population.
“Funny, the Wikipedia article regarding IQ and the Wealth of Nations lists the German IQ at 102.”
I misread the part of the chart saying “Germany,” to mean Germany, when Lynn must have meant to type “Germany, East”.
So it’s East Germany has an average IQ of 95 according to Lynn.
See here for a web version of the table:
http://www.isteve.com/iq_table.htm
On this subject the book shows 7 IQ studies for Germany, 3 for East Germany and 4 for West Germany.
Since the 4 for West Germany give an IQ of only 103, I find the overall figure of 102 hard to believe given that the studies on East Germany only found an average IQ of 95. East Germans aren’t outnumbered by West Germans to that extent.
“LOL! Calm down, Reggie…”
Captain, I think my statement was a logical inference. Swedes are further from Meds than Germans are, and Germans are so close to Swedes that they must be closer to them than Austrians are to Swedes.
Therefore it certainly stands to reason that Austrians are closer to Meds than Germans are.
Also a Genetic Map constructed by Dr. Kayser, Dr. Oscar Lao clearly shows that the average Austrian is closer to the average Med than the average German is.
And in fact the Austrian population comes VERY close to partly overlapping the Spanish population.
The Map constructed by Dr. Kayser and Dr. Oscar Lao can be seen here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/science/13visual.html
And if they did get some Germanic admixture, it’s clear that this only served to make them inferior given that Northern Italians MUST be FAR superior to Germans in intelligence to produce a National IQ at least as high as Germany in spite of being pulled down by all those Southern Italians who are nearly as stupid as the Irish.
The 102 Italian IQ estimate was based on two samples: one from Florence and the surrounding countryside, and one from Rome. No samples from southern Italy went into that estimate.
Yep, you can deny all you want that Italians from the south have received admixture. And call those who voice disagreements monkeys at your discretion (which says more about you than it does about anyone else, since there is more than enough data to support it). It’s not as if Lynn is the only one to postulate this, anyone who has actually been to S Italy can tell you it’s a mud flood and if they say otherwise they’re being mendacious. – ‘Kasimir’
This coming from a Slav.
Not that what you say about south Italy is totally incorrect — but you have to refer to it as a ‘mud flood’?! Have you ever been to south Italy, Kasimir?
I have, and it is usually very exaggerated just how mixed’ it actually is. A good portion of western Sicily — and the coastal cities of southern Italy, like Naples — are indeed where you find the more darker, ‘coarse Mediterranean’ looking types; while the interior towns, especially the mountain folk, look more like the north Italians.
This makes sense from a historical perspective since much of the near-Eastern and Levantine migrations of people, going back to the Roman Empire, tended to settle in the large urban population centers (EXACTLY as they do in modern-day AmeriKwa), and just like you yourself said to n/a a few months back.
This is why a lot of ‘Nordicists’ are often really motivated out of malice than any real desire of finding the truth. Also, your ‘big blonde Viking’ fantasies and projections are, as well, a bit perplexing. This is why I have always maintained, as Lockeford has additionally and sensibly pointed out, that the term ‘White’ is perhaps not the best term for European-Americans, since it encompasses peoples that are really not European — like a very large percentage of Russia and the eastern Slavs — who, regardless of phenotype (which more often than not is Asiatic hybrid) are simply not part of historical Europa. The Italians, however, as well regardless of phenotype — are integrally part-and-parcel of Europe and Western Civilization — as a matter of fact, the foundations of it.
*Whatever you all wish to further say on this, at least do it like a gentleman and not some wise-ass bratty juvenile who wishes to merely insult rather than inform or instruct. Much thanks.
The Map constructed by Dr. Kayser and Dr. Oscar Lao can be seen here
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mlcDtA_ehB8/SKWT5VbtkPI/AAAAAAAAAFA/KFgSUs1ZH6I/s1600-h/PIIS0960982208009561.gr3.lrg.gif.jpeg
Here is an image with Utah whites overlaid on that graph. As n/a said, Utah whites will definitely not be confused for Italians.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/SLs7sALkwoI/AAAAAAAAATs/sa2Ig1gv31M/s1600-h/novembre.jpg
Another plot of genetic structure in Europe
Silver believes the ancient peoples of Southern Europe were essentially Nordic, and became “Meds” by mixing with Semitic wogs. That is probably true.
This is ‘most probably not true’. The ancient peoples of much of southern and western Europe, up to and including the British Isles, were Atlanto-Mediterranean, who became more and more ‘Nordicised’ with the subsequent Indo-European invasions of ancient Europe. Middle, central Europe was of course essentially Alpine in sub-racial character.
Of course, everyone wants to be the descendants of the ‘conquerors’ — rather than the *conquered* — which more often than not is actually indeed the case.
In reality, though, we are descended from both. Again, time to grow up and be mature about all this.
Since the 4 for West Germany give an IQ of only 103, I find the overall figure of 102 hard to believe given that the studies on East Germany only found an average IQ of 95. East Germans aren’t outnumbered by West Germans to that extent.
East Germany was ~ 20% of the population of combined Germany.
(0.2 x 95) + (0.8 x 103) = 101.4
Depending on which year the calculation was made (and the source of population data), the % who were East German might have been smaller, resulting in a rounded figure of 102. Lynn’s estimate seems reasonable.
MGLS,
Just curious – What is your exact European ancestry(ies)?
Depending on which populations are included (and the number of samples in each), PCA plots can look very different (see Tian et al., 2009 for examples. Also note that Novembre and Lao use some different populations and where common, the sample sizes are different).
Fst is also a flawed measure, as it does not account for allelic correlation structure, and is sensitive to the level of heterozygosity in the markers sampled. Furthermore, not all Fst’s are equal. For example, Tian et al. (2009) reported Fst distances of 0.016 between Balochis and Palestinians, 0.018 between Balochis and Swedes, and 0.019 between Swedes and Palestinians. But on a PCA plot (Fig. 4A), Swedes and Palestinians are tightly aligned along the PC2 axis, while the Balochis are far away out on the PC1 axis.
There should be some caution in making overly specific claims based on the data that is currently available.
“The 102 Italian IQ estimate was based on two samples: one from Florence and the surrounding countryside, and one from Rome. No samples from southern Italy went into that estimate.”
Rome is crawling with southerners (and their descendants). And it’s right on the border with the south. Incidentally, neither Rome nor Florence are particularly Nordic.
“As n/a said, Utah whites will definitely not be confused for Italians.”
So much the worse for Utah. Unlike Mormons, Italians don’t believe that American Indians are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.
http://listverse.com/2008/02/04/top-10-bizarre-mormon-beliefs/
http://www.kmatthews.org.uk/cult_archaeology/lost_tribes_2.html
Except for stupidity and stark raving mad lunacy, what has Utah given to the West?
MGLS,
Just curious – What is your exact European ancestry(ies)?
Is this too inappropriate of a question for you, sir?
Except for stupidity and stark raving mad lunacy, what has Utah given to the West?
An above replacement-level White birth rate in the 21st century 🙂
You know what Latins, Nordics and Slavs have in common? Beautiful women! I honestly can’t decide which group looks best on average.
The rest of the world can’t even begin to compete.
The best thing abut being White is the women!
“i hope she gets raped by a gang of white guys when she comes of the plane from Haiti.”
Jonah? I understand you’re angry. But I do NOT hope she’s gang-raped by White guys because (a) she may well be infected with an STD including AIDS and (b) such an event would give the anti-White (esp. anti-White male) media a field day.
Euro,
I am sorry that you have to be subjected to a torrent of anti-Italian stereotypes when you come to this site.
Keep up the pro-Western, pro-European activism that you do, and we all so need, in spite of the churlish, pedantic treatment that you sometimes receive here from ‘proud, Aryan Internet Warriors’.
MGLS,
Just curious – What is your exact European ancestry(ies)?
Is this too inappropriate of a question for you, sir?
The majority of my ancestry is colonial American, predominantly English. The rest is from Germany and Scandinavia.
http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/5.html
Black ancestry in Italians
http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/italy.html
North vs. South Italy
http://racialreality.110mb.com/refuting_rm.html
Refuting Mr. Miggles.
Thanks Charlemagne (or should that be Karl der Grosse, since you’re a Frank and all) and think nothing of it. I’m tough, so I can take it. Actually I’m just having a bit of fun. I don’t take these idiots seriously. Furthermore, I hold Nords in the highest regard. I like and admire them/you. I certainly don’t begrudge them the right to preserve their identity.
But ya gotta draw the line somewhere!
The majority of my ancestry is colonial American, predominantly English. The rest is from Germany and Scandinavia.
Thanks for answering the question, MGLS.
Now, must you keep this hobby horse of yours, and keep this personal food fight going between yourself and Reginald — and Euro going (which was going on for the last several months, or more).
Seriously, what kind of ‘satisfaction’ do you get out of it. Is this how you need to make yourself ‘feel better’ — by disparaging southern Italians and ‘Meds’ with that ‘more Nordic than thou’ attitude? As a descendant of the British, how much ‘Med’ blood do you personally have, or are you one of the rare few that’s supposedly “100% Anglo-Saxon” (which is really a German ethny and tribe rather than a British one.)
As I said to the Slav Kasimir, a portion of what you say about south Italy and Meds may in fact be true — but why are you so obsessed about it? Ever hear the saying “its not what you say, but how you say it”…?
Regarding ‘Nordicism’, it is a truism that Nordic genes run like a continuum throughout Europe, as do Mediterranean genes, and of course Alpine. Just as there are Nordic genes in Sicily and south Italy — there are Mediterranean genes in the British Isles and England (of course Med genes predominate in south Italy and Sicily).
Remember as well, regarding the ‘Black ancestry’ thing (that people like the philo-semite Kemp like to use against south Italians and Meds) that this is often an exaggeration, and that it also applies to ANY European nation that had an Empire as large and with as much longevity as the Roman one. The British, Dutch and French empire’s took a great deal of Black slaves, and more than a minuscule amount settled in those nations’ proper; and, just like with Italy, migrated to their major urban centers.
So, no need to constantly single out Italy, or any one European country in particular, in your criticism (unless, of course, this is something very personal for you — which is unfortunate).
Barb: I would not be surprised if Jonah is an agent provocateur.
Thanks Charlemagne (or should that be Karl der Grosse, since you’re a Frank and all) and think nothing of it. I’m tough, so I can take it. Actually I’m just having a bit of fun. I don’t take these idiots seriously. Furthermore, I hold Nords in the highest regard. I like and admire them/you. I certainly don’t begrudge them the right to preserve their identity.
But ya gotta draw the line somewhere!
Your welcome, Euro, anytime mon frère européen (my European brother).
Appreciate the kind responses. I know you are a good man, and a comrade in the struggle for the liberation of ALL European and European/American peoples for their dignity and their ultimate freedom.
Let me tell you something — just as you say you respect Nords and north Europeans — I must genuinely say that I as well have great respect for many Meds, and particularly Italians. Italy is, simply, one of the most subliminally beautiful places on planet earth, regardless of the problems that may exist in parts of its south. I have been all over that country… it was like going to one big open-air museum.
And regardless of what some may say of the people, including, especially, the Sicilians, they are tremendously friendly and very proud of their heritage, both as Italians and as Europeans. Best of all, from what I witnessed there, the Italian men are very protective of their women, especially from Third World ‘migrants’. As you as well know, Italy has the toughest immigration laws in all of Europe.
This is why I feel Italians and Italian Americans like yourself Euro are indispensable allies in reclaiming OUR civilization, heritage and way of life — the European way of life.
Buona fortuna, mio amico e compagno.
So Charlemagne, I take it you are not opposed to an ethnostate for Nordics on the North American continent, then.
So Charlemagne, I take it you are not opposed to an ethnostate for Nordics on the North American continent, then.
Sure, Captain, but that would be an awfully small state if you would limit it to unmixed ‘Nordics’, since the overwhelming percentage of the American Majority and of most NW Europeans in general is not exclusively Nordic.
That being said Captain, I like Richard McCulloch’s revised definition of a European-American ethnostate — in line with TOQ and the A3P Political Party — and in line more with the realities of the Euro-American population as it currently is: That is, much of the numerically small, southern European population of America, as with the southern Italians and Greeks, have largely assimilated and amalgamated with the rest of the European-American population to such an appreciable degree that it would be, as I believe he said, something to the effect that it would be ‘quixotically unnecessary’, and very hard, to separate out the ‘hard-core’ Meds from among the southern European population, and the Euro-American population in general, of White America.
Sure, Captain, but that would be an awfully small state if you would limit it to unmixed ‘Nordics’, since the overwhelming percentage of the American Majority and of most NW Europeans in general is not exclusively Nordic.
I believe Captainchaos means “Nordish” here.
The majority of American Whites are indeed Nordish.
I believe Captainchaos means “Nordish” here.
The majority of American Whites are indeed Nordish.
Correct Bernard.
However, let’s remember that the majority of American Whites, like the numerical majority of NW Europeans, are British and German, the two largest northern European nation-states.
Of those countries, the British are a Nordic-Atlanto/Mediterranean (not to be confused with the more ‘hard-core’ and ‘gracile’ southern Meds) admixture; and the Germans (my favorite country) are a Nordic-Alpine admixture. As well, significant parts of both those lands where the Alpine and the Atlanto-Med sub-race predominate over the Nordic.
Essentially, though, almost all northern Europeans (like almost all of Europe in general) with the modest exception of Iceland, Sweden and a part of Norway — have varying degrees of Nordic, Alpine and Atlanto-Mediterranean ancestry. (Even Scandinavia has their own non-European indigenous folk of their own — the Lapps, or as they call themselves – the ‘Sami’.)
Correct Bernard.
So why would a Nordish ethnostate on the North American continent be “an awfully small state?”
So why would a Nordish ethnostate on the North American continent be “an awfully small state?”
Bernard,
No, I didn’t mean a Nordish ethnostate (since Nordish not necessarily synonymous woth Nordic) , but a Nordic one, or one that was only limited to those who were unmixed ‘Nordics’ — which wouldn’t encompass a good deal of White Americans and most northern Europeans (as per my explanation in comment #295).
An Nordish ethnostate would be fine, since it would encompass northern Europeans in all their sub-ethnic and sub-racial makeups — and other White European Americans as well, as McCulloch even recently recognizes.
An Nordish ethnostate would be fine, since it would encompass northern Europeans in all their sub-ethnic and sub-racial makeups — and other White European Americans as well, as McCulloch even recently recognizes.
How would it be a Nordish ethnostate if “other White European Americans” are included as well? Wouldn’t it then be a White European ethnostate?
Being born and raised in a Scandinavian country (but now an American), I can reveal that most of us don’t consider Meds to be completely White, although we hold no animosity against them. In my birth country (forgive me for protecting my anonymity) there are enough third world trash, that Italians and Spaniards don’t stand out much at all, anymore. I was probably 15 before I realized that my blue-eyed and light brown-haired friend (last name Vitelli) was Italian. But there you go…
As far as the White community in North America goes, I feel that unity between Nordics, Slavs and White Meds is a necessary and good thing.
If anyone wonders, I have green eyes and blond hair. Three out of my four grand parents have blue eyes and except for what I think is a lapplander hiding in the woodpile 3-4 generations back, I’m 100 % Nordic/Aryan/Hyperborean/Thulean etc. ;o)
@ #63 K: Hear hear, the both of you! I am still reeling from readin Amanda’s words. At first I got all smilely as I read thru the first part, at first I was all “god not another liberal scumbag” but then I was smiling ear to ear as read thru her experience n thought “good she got what she asked for”. Ive often argued w/ liberal n!@@3r lovers n ended up telling them that “I hope you come to your senses without having to learn the hard way of the “black” animalistic” and degenerate nature”. Its insane that this broad still thinks as she does & has not learned a thing. I agree w/ one of the commenters in that I have washed my hands of this traitor, she is NOT white, just scum. Also, the “powers that be” that ppl keep talking about are not jews in the sense that the “apartment dwelling lawyers” n such are not to blame. But it IS jews in the sense of that is something called “Zog” or “the Zog machine” that has poisoned our race w/ extreem liberalism thru public schools and the media and uses the minoritys as “tools” or “weapons” against us. More and more whites are comming to thier senses, racism is making a comeback so, the situation WILL eventualy come to a head & then we can actually tackle the issues. Till then I believe the based way to help our race and support the 14 words is to make more aryan babies as we ARE currently being outbred. My instinct is for violence as I’m an emotional person, but lets make more warriors b4 we make war. 1488
How would it be a Nordish ethnostate if “other White European Americans” are included as well? Wouldn’t it then be a White European ethnostate?
Bernard,
Well, I suppose that is what I overall meant, and am happy to see that Richard McCulloch accepts this view as well. Either way, as a White or a ‘Nordish’ state, the Nordish elements will largely predominate, so I suppose its a bit semantic, but either way (since Nordish is not a synonym for Nordic) ‘Nordishness’ at least recognizes (I think) the other, non-Nordic genetics of the European peoples (such as Alpine, Dinaric and Atlanto-Mediterannean) that McCulloch identifies as Nordish, as well as the classical Hallstatt and La Tène Nordic cultures and peoples — the unmixed Nordics of antiquity.
I assume Nordish means someone with some or appreciable degrees of Nordic ancestry, again, not merely as a synonym for Nordic, which would not be accurate. Additionally, of course, Nordishness is not limited to NW Europe — it is to be found even in south and eastern Europe as well.
Hence, since much of the indigenous and predominant Alpines, Dinarics and Meds of much of central and northern Europe assimilated in to the Anglo-Teutonic and Celtic cultures of their own countries — I don’t see much of an issue in assimilating America’s numerically smaller south Euro and south Med minorities — be it in a White or a Nordish ethnostate.
I think Nordicreb sums up my personal feelings rather perfectly –
In my birth country (forgive me for protecting my anonymity) there are enough third world trash, that Italians and Spaniards don’t stand out much at all, anymore. I was probably 15 before I realized that my blue-eyed and light brown-haired friend (last name Vitelli) was Italian. But there you go…
As far as the White community in North America goes, I feel that unity between Nordics, Slavs and White Meds is a necessary and good thing.
Well said Nordicreb, very well said indeed. It is the height of folly to myopically focus on the small numbers of south Euros in America — who are already decent, well-adjusted and assimilated White American citizens — and overlook the MUCH LARGER PROBLEM that we of European descent face from all kinds of Third World aliens, up to and including non-European Caucasians (wink wink, nod nod), who cause way, WAY more problems than any Greeks or southern Italians do, even on their best day.
*You are a fair debater on this subject Bernard, and for this I thank you. I also thank the others who can calmly discuss this issue without it turning in to a personal vendetta or a hobby horse of theirs. Even those who may or seemed to have done this, and of who I challenged over, such as MGLS and Reginald, are good and sincere men and overall great commentators whose input and views I respect. I as well meant nothing personal in my criticisms and differences of opinion with them, or anyone else. It’s just that I feel we have to keep our focus on the larger issue of White and European survival, and put the other issues, such as sub-racial and ethnic differences, in their proper perspective.
Well, I suppose that is what I overall meant
Charlemagne,
So then your answer to Captainchaos’s original question is that you are opposed to a Nordish ethnostate on the North American continent?
I believe in Nordish preservation. I don’t have a problem with your position on this either way, but I do wish you could be straightforward about it.
So then your answer to Captainchaos’s original question is that you are opposed to a Nordish ethnostate on the North American continent?
I believe in Nordish preservation. I don’t have a problem with your position on this either way, but I do wish you could be straightforward about it.
Bernard,
No, like I said before, I am not opposed to Northern European preservation. It is just that I am somewhat more nuanced about it, especially concerning the realities of American Whites and exactly just what constitutes ‘Nordishness’.
For full disclosure, I absolutely prefer to see a White ethnostate verses a strictly ‘Nordish’ one (which even McCulloch himself, the coiner of the term ‘Nordish’, has come to favor). Either way, the northern European sub-race and culture will predominate, so this is what I was trying to convey, if you took the time and the decency to read all that I had to say, and not question me like an attorney as if I was on trial or something.
Charlemagne,
No, like I said before, I am not opposed to Northern European preservation.
To be specific, we’re talking about a Nordish ethnostate in North America, not vaguely about Nordish preservation.
For full disclosure, I absolutely prefer to see a White ethnostate verses a strictly ‘Nordish’ one (which even McCulloch himself, the coiner of the term ‘Nordish’, has come to favor).
They’re not mutually exclusive. A Nordish ethnostate in North America doesn’t mean there can’t be other White ethnostates, Med ethnostates, White ethnostates that include both Nords and Meds, etc.
Either way, the northern European sub-race and culture will predominate, so this is what I was trying to convey, if you took the time and the decency to read all that I had to say, and not question me like an attorney as if I was on trial or something.
I read everything you wrote. You weren’t that clear. I’m still not sure what exactly you mean when you say that you “absolutely prefer to see a White ethnostate verses [sic] a strictly ‘Nordish’ one” and whether or not that answers Captainchaos’s original question. If Nordish folk sought self-determination and sovereignty in our own ethnostate in North America, would you oppose its formation?
Crapandchaos, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. You’re passionate, I get it; and I’m patient, and I can excuse a lot, but the truth still matters. I’ve never said I believe those populations were “essentially nordic.” I’ve said that, based on the evidence, it’s reasonable to believe a nordic element was once much more widespread in those parts and likewise reasonable to attribute to it the leading role those civilizations played. But I’m far from believer in strict biological determinism so, in comparison to an unabashed nordicist (and I think it’d help to cure your insolence for you to remedy that — to get bashed, preferably by one dem dagoes that so offend you :-wink) like yourself, I’m also inclined to downplay the significance of it.
Bernard,
You have a choice. You can make it easier to support you, or, as you overwhelmingly tend to, more difficult. Personally, I regard race important enough to support repatriating en masse to ancestral homelands. If the idea is behind race is better living around one’s own kind (or around kinds closely enough related to make it seem the same thing), where exactly on planet earth that takes place is actually of secondary importance. But most people don’t come close to seeing it that way, so some form of partition is the most sensible course of action. The easiest way to overcome reluctance to embrace racialism is (a) offer a territorial reward; give people a territorial objective to strive for; (b) present political racialism in terms that garner support rather than engender opposition. With respect to (b) the extremist sort of revulsionism (see vnntard “Johnny’s” comments on this thread) that motivated ‘early adopters’ is totally divorced from average people’s experience of the racially unlike is (c) a leading factor in why people regard racialists as “crazy” (they don’t see anything to be revolted by) and (d) while not ‘true,’ in the sense that anyone who embraces racialism is a ‘stealth nordicist,’ can be sufficiently disturbing that those otherwise inclined to seek and support a racial solution can instead find their resolve to resist reinvigorated.
(An excellent question to ask: why is Hunter Wallace blind to the above? Why, seemingly, are all would-be racialist leaders? Is it inaccurate? If so, how? If not, why remain blind to it?)
Finally, I think that while there’s little question that social relations between (using the term loosely) northern and southern Europeans (and, fuck it, Jews, if we’re to be honest) are easily of a sufficiently amicable nature to qualify as an ‘ingroup,’ there remains a dormant dividing line that inevitably reawakens whenever racial conscioussness rises to the fore and it makes sense to formulate policy on the basis of it. It’s certainly in the interests of any southern European who desires a racial future in N. America to support racialism, and there is good reason to believe that that support can be retained despite the requirement/necessity/desire to part ways with him; whether that takes the form of exclusive southern territory, or mixed southern and northern territory (the latter sure to be preferable to sizeable contingent, both northern and southern) is not, I would argue, a particularly pressing matter. Ranters like Reginald who absurdly appear to believe his racial interests require him (and his kind) to be included among nordics can be safely ignored.