Larry Auster writes:
“As you should know, I’m not going to post a comment supporting the Southern secessionists, whose grounds for secession were: the lawful election to the presidency of a man they didn’t like, and the lawful act of the United States in maintaining control of a federal fort.”
The most eloquent case for Southern secession was made by the Confederate commissioners who were selected as “apostles of disunion” to the other Southern states:
“If the policy of the Republicans is carried out, according to the programme indicated by the leaders of the party, and the South submits, degradation and ruin must overwhelm alike all classes of citizens in the Southern States. The slave-holder and non-slave-holder must ultimately share the same fate — all be degraded to a position of equality with free negroes, stand side by side with them at the polls, and fraternize in all the social relations of life; or else there will be an eternal war of races, desolating the land with blood, and utterly wasting and destroying all the resources of the country.
Who can look upon such a picture without a shudder? What Southern man, be he slave-holder or non-slave-holder, can without indignation and horror contemplate the triumph of negro equality, and see his own sons and daughters, in the not distant future, associating with free negroes upon terms of political and social equality, and the white man stripped, by the Heaven-daring hand of fanaticism of that title to superiority over the black race which God himself has bestowed?”
“To-day our government stands totally revolutionized in its main features, and our Constitution broken and overturned. The new administration, which has effected this revolution, only awaits the 4th of March for the inauguration of the new government, the new principles, and the new policy, upon the success of which they have proclaimed freedom to the slave, but eternal degradation for you and for us. …
Our fathers made this a government for the white man, rejecting the negro, as an ignorant, inferior, barbarian race, incapable of self-government, and not, therefore, entitled to be associated with the white man upon terms of civil, political, or social equality.
This new administration comes into power, under the solemn pledge to overturn and strike down this great feature of our Union, without which it would never have been formed, and to substitute in its stead their new theory of the universal equality of the black and white races. …
Sink or swim, live or die, survive or perish, the part of Mississippi is chosen, she will never submit to the principles and policy of this Black Republican Administration.
She had rather see the last of her race, men, women and children, immolated in one common funeral pile [pyre], than see them subjected to the degradation of civil, political and social equality with the negro race.”
“And now you tender us the inhuman alternative of unconditional submission to Republican rule on abolition principles, and ultimately to free negro equality and a government of mongrels or a war of races on the one hand, and on the other secession and a bloody and desolating civil war, waged in an attempt by the Federal Government to reduce us to submission to these wrongs. …
… The irrepressible conflict propounded by abolitionism has produced now its legitimate fruits– disunion. Free negro equality, which is its ultimate object, would make us re-enact the scenes of revolution and anarchy we have so long witnessed and deplored in the American governments to the south of us.”
“The Southern Secession was a bad cause, one of the worst that ever was, as Grant put it in his memoirs. Anyone who tries to advance or justify our opposition to a lawless federal government by linking it to that bad cause, is tainting and besmirching our just and righteous cause.”
The Confederate cause was identical with the preservation of slavery, white supremacy, and state sovereignty. The Union cause was identical with abolition, negro equality, and consolidated government.
Note: BTW, the Grant administration was one of the most corrupt governments in all of American history. Barack Hussein Obama is the legitimate heir of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant. He is a sectional president like Lincoln who won the same states.
Jewish power is a shadow on the wall.
Sadly a lot of our fellow Southrons buy the argument that Joe proposes.
“I know the US government doesn’t serve the interests of our people anymore, and that we’re a perpetual minority that is increasingly marginalized with each passing year, while our lands are being flooded with Mexicans thanks to US government policies, etc…BUT if we secede, Amurka won’t be as strong and our many enemies around the world will surely invade!”
It’s all hogwash of course. You hear the same crap from patriotards who say we would all be speaking German or Russian today if the Southern American states were granted their wish for independence.
I understand there is some common ground between myself and Whites in other regions, but it is not enough to be joined under the same political union. While race is a major component of authentic nationalism, it is by no means the ONLY one. I’m on board with any serious effort to get the US government to stop the flood of non-White immigration (even though it ain’t gonna happen), but beyond that I have no allegiance whatsoever to the US government and zero desire to interfere in the affairs of people in California or New York, in exchange for the same treatment the other way around.
Dixie is a separate nation from other regions of “America” just as Ireland is separate from England. As such, we ought to be granted the right of self-determination just like any other nation. But we don’t have self-determination here…we are granted token participation in an empire that dominates us.
Re-fighting the Civil War again, are we? I’ve said before that I believe if the old Confederate states ever leave the Union, it will most likely be a dull and bloodless affair. Most of the nations that made up the Soviet Union, became independent without any real violence. Granted, this is a different continent with a different history and a more volatile racial composition, but we as a people tend to indentify very strongly with our respective places of origin. Regional identity often supercedes national identity, especially now that our “nation” has been reduced to a flop-house for anyone from anywhere. I think that as federal power gradually wanes, and the rule of law decentralizes and adapts based on locality, we’ll witness nation- states emerging naturally, and with little outside resistance.
Th South has a legitimate history as a nation unto itself, but does it today have the same economic resources, genetic stock, and sense of identity that it had before 1861? I don’t know the answer to that.
The South has very little fresh water, and is often prone to drought. The South has little to no manufacturing — sure, a few foreign auto-makers have set up shop there in recent years, but the South cannot will not ever match the industrial stength of the North. The majority of weapons manufactures were founded and based in the North — Armalite, Northrop Grumman, Smith & Wesson — just to name a few. Hell, the old DATP which built M1 Abrams tanks, was just a few miles from my house. I personally question the adaptibity of the traditionally relaxed Southern culture, which is accustomed to using imported “indentured” labor large scale projects, to the necessityof back-breaking, round-the-clock, industrial labor that is so vital to a new nation.
But, the South grows… cotton. And saw palmetto berries. And oranges. I guess.
Stonelifter likes to suggest that Northerners (Yankees) are soft, corrupted, urbanites who lack the constitution for battle or the character to endure prolonged discomfort. And as a lifelong, fourth-generation Northerner, I say that is utter horseshit. Northerners are acclimated to harshest weather extremes on the entire continent. Northerners forged the 20th century itself out of fire and steel. Northerners have been living cheek to jowl with free niggers, whom we DESPISE, for far longer than Southerners have. Northerners suffered heavier casualties than the South during both WW1 & 2, Korea, and Vietnam.
I assure you, Northerners are every bit as hard-working, racially-lucid, and ferocious in battle, as Southerners proclaim themselves to be. We’ll be more than fine without the South. Would the opposite hold true for Dixie? Time may tell.
Personally, I don’t want there to be another war between the states. Hell, deep down, I wish the whole of America could be salvaged and made right again, but I’m mature enough to know that’s not going to be the case. It’s obvious that the acrimony between the North and the South, is to this day, irreconcilable. Let’s go our seperate ways, build a hundred-foot-tall, thousand-mile-long wall across the old Mason-Dixon Line and call it a divorce once and for all.
I didn’t hear anyone calling for the death of northern whites. More like calling for a divorce, not calling a hit man.
No one is proposing reraising the Army of Northern Virginia.
I think it would roll out very differently. It’s not like the Northern citizen is really invested in Equality on the basic level.
Re read the thread, Jim.
Attacking White women and children was mentioned along with saying White abortions in the north is a good thing.
Really crazy stuff, really stupid and short sighted as well.
“I’ve said before that I believe if the old Confederate states ever leave the Union, it will most likely be a dull and bloodless affair. Most of the nations that made up the Soviet Union, became independent without any real violence. ”
I agree. And any movement needs to court the disillusioned Rust-Belt. A midwest-south-nearwest alliance would immediately become the most powerful nation in the Western Hemisphere. Great Lakes industry, breadbasket agriculture, near west oil, and gulf state oil and ports. You need all of that.
Sean, I admit I skimmed, but I would never advocate for that. I consider myself far more pragmatic than many neo-confederates. Perhaps that’s because I’m not from the south, but I don’t see the south being a viable nation on its own today.
The upper Midwest also has the only major commercially viable iron ore deposits in America.
I agree, Jim. If it were ever to happen the south would most likely repeat their history and import non Whites to tend their fields and clean their mansions.
They would live high on the hog again on the back of non White slave labor until it all comes crashing down.
I’m a Southerner and sympathetic to Southern secession in principle. I am shocked, disappointed, and in a few cases disgusted by some of the sentiments being expressed against *WHITE* people from outside the South.
I don’t have anything against White people outside the South.
There are plenty of White people in the South who I would happily trade for those who live in the North and West. No one comes here to complain about the White people who live in, say, Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming.
Here are the legitimate grievances:
(1) The existence of the Union has allowed the unrestricted immigration of transplants who come to states like Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, Florida, and Georgia and who combine with illegal aliens and the black population to turn Red States into Blue States.
(2) The fact that almost the entire North votes as an electoral bloc for Democrats like Obama who are determined to make an already bad situation even worse. We have a serious problem with half or nearly half of White people who live in the North.
(3) The existence of the Union clearly works to our disadvantage. Look no further than Reconstruction or the Civil Rights Movement.
This has become a matter of survival now. We can either dissolve the Union or find ourselves destroyed within the Union. The choice is self-preservation or the Union and I happily choose the latter.
Explain to me why we need the mid west.
Because White Southerners need would need allies in a fight for Independence from the federal government? Without allies, it would be hopeless. White Southerners who want independence would have to simultaneously fight:
– All the blacks/Latinos/non-Whites already in the South
– All the liberal Whites already in the South
– All people outside the South (White or not).
– US gov and the federal power structure
– Mass media
Midwesterners aren’t vipers. There are lots of good people in the midwest and everywhere else.
WN is a non-starter.
It is a non-starter primarily because it tries to include all White people everywhere. So you want to create a “White ethnostate”? Okay, so what’s the name of it? Where is it located? Who is willing to fight for the “White ethnostate”?
That’s the problem with White Nationalism. You might as well draw a question mark over the United States. WNs themselves don’t even have a clue where their proposition nation is located, what is going to be called, or what ethnic group will be the basis of it.
If you want to include all White people in the entire United States, then you should be calling for the restoration of white supremacy, but WNs insist on separatism, so they come across as completely incoherent.
So you want to separate? Okay, which states are going to separate from the Union? Covington is the only WN who even attempts to answer the question.
If Northern Whites (the half that keeps voting for Democrats) would stop trying to make a bad situation even worse, then everything would change. Just stop trying to make it worse.
What can we do but secede? Half of Northern Whites are going to vote for Obama in November after four years of Obama and Holder.
I don’t have a problem with succession, never have. Never really cared or gave it much thought. Not my issue. I have no intention of living down south.
However, the root cause of your current problems are the same as ours in the north. It is big government and subversive media. Killing northern Whites is a useless endeavor if you want to remedy thses root issues.
You really have to wonder why so many Yankees get so upset at the mere mention of Southern independence. Somehow they have decided that our liberty is a threat to them personally. I guess they would feel degraded if they ever lost their white Southern “tax slaves” that they exploit to fund their extravagant negro pets.
Yankees should stop worrying about us and focus on solving their own problems. Bringing up Russian and Chinese bogeymen is ridiculous. Neither Russians nor Chinese nor any other people on the earth have ever brought or could bring as much misery, destruction, and death to the South as have the Yankees.
They could just simply leave us alone, but then that really isn’t the Yankee way.
Half of Northern whites won’t vote for him this time. Many traditional liberals will publicly support him, but once they get into the privacy of the booth…Bradley Effect.
If the South seceded from the Union tomorrow, then everything would change overnight. You would see an instantaneous shift back toward the equilibrium of our culture.
(1) We can definitively say that affirmative action and multiculturalism would fall.
(2) We would revert to the pre-Roe status quo on abortion and family planning.
(3) The border would be secured and illegals would be rounded up and deported.
(4) The welfare state would fall.
(5) BRA would evaporate because there is no indigenous support for it outside the black population.
(6) If Washington were removed from the equation, the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would fall, and there would be a gradual reversion to something like Jim Crow.
Speaking of Michigan, Rick Snyder has VETOED the photo Voter ID bill:
Incredibly, a Republican governor approves of negro absentee voter fraud in Detroit! Spineless!
We don’t want you living down South, either.
If we secede your big government problem is either solved or cut down to size.
The subversive media is headquartered in your country, not ours.
Perhaps you should focus on what you can do for your own.
We have no desire to kill your people. We just want our liberty back. Pretty please, Mr. Yankee man? We no longer desire to be chained to your failed “proposition” nation. If you still insist we must fight to gain our freedom, we will most assuredly.
Otherwise, stop trying to undermine and thwart our attempts to restore our freedom.
Do something about restoring your own instead of constantly criticizing us.
We no longer have time for your bullshit.
Hunter Wallace says:
July 3, 2012 at 10:41 pm
I agree with your analysis of the various problems with the ethnostate concept. An ethnostate is an amorphous, undefined, non-existent abstraction. The South, on the other hand, is a real place with culture, history, identity, people who look at the things more or less the same way, and people with legitimate grievances. The South is a good place to build a secessionist movement. I support the idea. At the same time, lots of people outside the South have grievances with the federal government and want out from under BRA. Those are potential allies that shouldn’t be defined as enemies for no reason other than where they reside on the map. I don’t think you do that. Some here seem to come close to it.
Apuleius, been out of the south lately?
I can assure you the vast majority of Whites couldn’t give a rats ass about the south or your whining about yankees.
Then do it Apuleis, stop whining and do it.
Like I said above, not my issue.
“I guess they would feel degraded if they ever lost their white Southern “tax slaves”..”
– Get over yourself. Southerners aren’t the only ones who pay Federal taxes.
“..that they exploit to fund their extravagant negro pets.”
– “Negro pets”? The Southerner of all people, is actually accusing the Yankee of keeping niggers as pets?? Rocks? Glass houses?
“Neither Russians nor Chinese nor any other people on earth have ever brought or could bring as much misery, destruction, and death to the South as have the Yankees.
– NO other people, you insist? Try looking in the mirror.
“They could just simply leave us alone, but that isn’t the Yankee way.”
– Beauregard attacked Fort Sumter and the unarmed Star of the West without provocation, and started the fucking war to begin with. You Southerners sound just like Jews sometimes — you provoke a fight, hit first, and then forever play the victim after you got your ass kicked. Man up and accept some responsibility for the part YOUR people played in their own undoing.
Oh yeah, Apuleis, I choose to not live in the south for many reasons.
Niggers being one of them.
If I wanted to move there, I would and there is not a fucking thing you could do about it.
If you don’t give a rat’s ass about it, then why are you here?
Last time I checked Fort Sumter is still in South Carolina.
Get over yourselves, Yankees. Your failed nation is on its last legs.
Do come down and run off at the mouth like you do here, tough guy. God knows we have enough of your types down here already, running away like little girls from the mess they made up north. Or did that just spontaneously happen to you poor wittle Yankees, too?
The Yankee nation is a complete failure. You two trolls show us exactly why.
Maybe you both should move to Massachusetts and get married. You’ll even have your “free” Romneycare before your Obamacare kicks in.
Man up and accept the fact that you’re just another Obama voter suffering from buyer’s remorse along with your white guilt, worried about preserving the “union” of armchair chickenhawk Yankees, negroes, Mexicans.
Maybe you two could just pull a Chief Justice Roberts and run away to Malta?
The skeedaddle is time honored Yankee tradition, after all.
Personal attacks are usually a sign of a defeated individual.
Good luck with your succession, Apulies.
We both know its not going to happen within our lifetime. But have fun fantasizing in your computer chair, tough guy.
Grow some balls and get out there, TAKE BACK DIXIE FROM THE EVIL WHITE YANKEES.
Who said northern whites are going to get killed?
It just a matter of keeping yourself to yourself.
Landshark; Jackson wanted to raze the north before they got up to speed but Southron leadership, mostly Lee IRCC wanted to persevere our honor. Honor with lose is worthless. But we know the measure of yankees now and will pay them back
Trying resupply a foreign military post in your harbor isn’t a hostile act? and yankees think we are the dumb ones
Someone needs to rethink and study up on the South and manufacturing.
I hate yankees, equally with negros. More of them abort then Southrons and yes that’s good news. If we drove all the none Whites out of the usa, y’all would still be our enemy. Tell me how the “good” yankees would be our ally? In what way are they our ally now? In what way would they be our ally later? What actions do they take in the now or the past that we should view them as potential allies?
The Red Shirt business suggests that the legitimacy of BRA could be defeated in a day. Who would lift a finger to help the paracites?
tell me all the wonderful things yankee Whites have done for me and my kin so I can consider them my brothers….. Wait a minute, you can’t tell me wonderful things they’ve done for us, but we can make a long list of grievances about them
to tell you the truth are there any English (L’Anglais > Iroquois “Yankee”) left up north?
The cities are effectively Jewish/Italian or Irish/German. The Hermans and Paddy’s inherited the country already. I can’t account for the countryside. What was left of the English around ww1 literally vanished after ww2.
“(A)re there any English (L’Anglais > Iroquois ‘Yankee’) left up north?”
John, there are some English, and also Welsh people (and self-sconsciously so) descended from eitghteenth and nineteenth century immigrants in our locality. Thanks for the aside that “Yankee” means “English.”
“I hate yankees, equally with negroes” and “we know the measure of yankees now and will pay them back” should be tempered by Scripture, such as “wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood” and “as iron sharpens iron….”
“Vengeance is mine, and I will repay, saith the Lord.”
In time there will be no other conclusion for rational people than disunion. Then it will be the disunionists versus the Marxists and when it’s all done, Lord Willing, we can all go our separate ways.
Negro cleanup on aisle five:
I don’t know John. The Good Lord has greatly blessed me and I haven’t had to travel north of Southron MD in a very long time. 20 years maybe. But English or otherwise, yankees are not my people and I don’t care if they live or die as long as they leave me be. but given the nature of yankees, they won’t do that unless they are dead or worse then bankrupt and powerless
Vengeance is the Lords, but if you read the Good Book, He often uses men to be his instrument of vengeance
Yankees really need to break their negro addiction.
The first step is to admit you have a problem.
Unfortunately, they are in deep denial, probably terminally so.
Like most junkies, they turn on those who try to help them and lash out viciously.
After a while, the helpers have to walk away and let them bottom out or even die.
Some people can’t be helped. It is sad, but that’s life.
Fellow Southerners, it’s time for us to walk away.
“English or otherwise, yankees are not my people and I don’t care if they live or die as long as they leave me be.” Historical conflict trumps DNA relationship. However, does Christian relationship tip the balance the other way?
I’m surprised you didn’t know the root of the word.
Don’t underestimate the degrees of hostility of incomers to the host. They want to join in and then take over mostly.
I also believe in “letting alone” and have no intention of immigrating southward to become yet another invading, culture-changing transplant. I’m not interested in nosey tourism either. I belong here, and I think I understand your position.
“Don’t underestimate the degrees of hostility of incomers to the host. They want to join in and then take over mostly.”
Do you mean by “the host” this website that admits non-southern registrants to blog, or the South that admits or is invaded by transplants, or both perhaps?
“Don’t underestimate the degrees of hostility of incomers to the host. They want to join in and then take over mostly.”
You mean like our favorite passive-aggressive nitwit, Joe?
Mosin, you’re a good egg. I write some pretty stupid shit every now and again. Thanks for being able to see past it. Your contributions here are valued.
Wish I could say the same for some others, but oh, well…
These are dark times for our people. Some folks just need to blow off some steam every so often. But I have no doubt that there are others who just want to disrupt, sabotage, or hijack everything here.
“Vengeance is the Lords, but if you read the Good Book, he often uses men to be his instruments of vengeance.”
– That’s either the second or third time you’ve alluded to having to some personal call to take retribution against Northerners. No Yankee alive today ever did anything to you to justify whatever revenge fantasy you have in mind. That “Southern honor” you always invoke, is just a crock of shit. Where is the honor in dispensing revenge on complete strangers who never harmed you, and in the name of some generations-old act of harm that you weren’t even alive to have experienced?
And since you haven’t travelled north of MD in 20 years, I’ll give you some advice — you come North looking for violence with the local people, and I promise you’ll get more than you could ever handle.
He is full of shit, no one in his line of work doesn’t travel up north in a span of twenty years.
These guys are just losers, they don’t represent the south as a whole.
I know plenty of southerners and none are this stupid.
Like I said, I’m not much into the North South thing, since we as a people are under serious attack. What I want to see are the transcendentalist egalitarians sealed off to New England, along with the jews they love so much, and California, Oregon, Nevada and New Mexico sealed off along with the mexicans they love so much, and the rest of the continent, along with Canada, aligned in a confederation of autonomous republics, free to rule themselves. Defense and the race laws will be the only thing common amongst us.
“Yankees need to break their negro addiction.”
– Says the guy who’s people fought a war to preserve the freedom to keep nigger slaves, who did everything from pick their Southern masters cotton, to wipe their Southern masters asses for them.
“The first step is to admit you have a problem.”
– Then take your own advice.
“Unfortunately they are in deep denial, probably terminally so.”
– Past match-up statistics: Yankees 1, Rebels 0.
“Like most junkies, they turn in those who try to help them and lash out viciously.”
– Like when the Union forced the Confederacy to stop expanding nigger slavery into new territories, and got bombarded with cannon fire.
“After while the helpers have to walk away and let them bottom out or even die. Some people can’t be helped. It is sad, but that’s life.”
– I agree.
“Fellow Southerners, it’s time for us to walk away.”
– Well you know which way the door is. And don’t forget to take your niggers with you.
I don’t work stateside dumb-ass and their isn’t anything up north to travel too. The school I need to attend for professional development are in the South and west. Might be some up north, don’t know, don’t care because there are enough down here. Hell don’t really need to leave NC for them.
Feuds and long memories of past harm is the Ulster Scot way, but it’s easy to say it’s in the past when it didn’t happen to your family, but the civil rights act isn’t in the past its still going-on; we’re still dealing with negros that the yankees unleashed with your war and ending jim crow; still dealing with a hostile media that ridicules all things Southron etc etc
If y’all don’t like strong opinions from Southron men, go somewhere else. There’s no shortage of WN webpages, or places for dmanyankees to spout off. I don’t go up north because i don’t like the place or the people. I leave them be. I stay away form WN webpages and pro yankee webpages because it’s there place to be. But like I said, yankees can’t leave us be unless their dead or to busy struggling to survive. That includes being online. Vile people, expect Landshark and Mosin.