The Cul-De-Sac of White Nationalism 2

78 Comments

1. “””,,,,power of ideology.,,,,”””

   Power of IQ.

   People with low IQ and simplified worldview need some scapegoat to blame for everyday problems.

   Life goes wotse and worse and low IQ folk can not understand clever complex 4th Gen attack. So they will attack first target what Jews and communists offer them as a decoy.

   In Eastern Europe happened the same. Our first opposition was garbage nationalists who fell between the wheels first and blamed Russia for that. As time went by, smatrer beople got hurt and began thinking that EU and Nato might not be such as paradises as told.

   Then wiser people formed opposition, Viktor Orban most known and Russia hating losers who lost their jobs and lives not because of Russia but because EU rules and regulations dissapeared.

   This is unavoidable development. In every crisis, stupid people get hit first so first opposition is always not very smart.

   • “People with low IQ and simplified worldview need some scapegoat to blame for everyday problems.”

     The trouble with this view is that genuinely low IQ people tend to be driven by instinct, and the problem modern Whites have is that their instincts are being over-ridden by propaganda.

     I dare say if we truly got granular with IQ and behavioural analysis we’d see more midwits lined up behind IMPACTFUL destructive behaviours that truly harm our race, than our low IQ ranks.

     Another point, if (in the West), the number of offspring decreases the higher the IQ of the parents, and this is below replacement for the majority of high IQ people.. how smart are they really?

     They can solve a differential equation but cannot even cognise the severe risks they are taking with the future, or even discern any genuine purpose in life.. things a base animal understands in a more genuine way than they do.

     If a person is high IQ, and has means (which they should being high IQ), and they do not have a large brood of children, what do they truly understand at all? If they have 2, and one turns out to be gay, and the other dies in an accident, where is the intelligence in the way they lived their lives?

     And now I have all the hallmarks of a high IQ person (MENSA tested, put up grades, Masters, multiple post graduate qualifications, graduated magna cum laude etc), and I used to look down on dumb people.
     ..but the thing is, the older I have gotten, the higher I have had to lift the bar. Most people with IQ’s of 130 are f*cking dumb. Most people into the 140’s are dumb. Certainly everyone lower is dumb… but where is the point where people become ACTUALLY smart? Perhaps it is north of 145, or 160.. but I don’t know, it gets hard to sample the opinions of such people. If they are White and non-White nationalist, they are dumb. If they don’t have 3 or more offspring they are dumb. If they happily let their kids be exposed to tranny programming they are dumb. If they vote Democrat out of any sentiment other than accellerationism they are dumb. To me it goes way past intelligence.

     IQ is necessary to think one’s way out of the dreck our society fills people’s minds with… but so too is courage, self-belief, strength, preparedness to be non-conforming, preparedness to be non-agreeable, a sense of honour… etc.

     A smart man without courage will go along. A smart man without self-belief will let his doubts hold him back, a man who doesn’t like making waves and hurting others will keep quiet etc.

     So even in the ranks of the intelligent, you will whittle down to a handful in every 100 that can truly understand, and do anything other than go with the flow around them. I’d have more faith in people driven purely by instinct to tell the truth.

     • Good ‘un.

   • Hunter,

     Thank you so much for your thoughtful and intelligent analysis of the issues of race, culture, and faith. Race, as you said, is not everything, but it is an element of God’s created order. God as divided the peoples, and race is a facet of that division.

     Race deniers go to the other extreme, and tell us that race doesn’t exist. I can’t help but notice that many of them are the same people who don’t want the white race to exist. Their claims that “science” proves race isn’t real are just as bogus as the “science” of Dr. Fauci. See the link below:

     https://vdare.com/articles/fads-and-fallacies-in-the-name-of-race-does-not-exist

     It is quite clear to me that given given current trends, white European peoples worldwide are facing extreme marginalization and perhaps even extinction. To continue to exist we must organize to protect our legitimate interests. I hope we can do this on an honorable Christian basis, rather than one of returning evil for evil. This is a duty we owe to our ancestors, as well as our descendants.

2. I agree. JB and I are Christians, several in my family are not. A couple of our children are not. I won’t get into the disord, it has been very painful.

   I’d like to talk about economic populism. I listened to a republican governors debate the other day in a midwestern state where most of my relatives live. In response to a question about what these candidates would do to help people make ends meet due to inflation and the 2 most popular answers were:

   1) Eliminate property taxes This only benefits homeowners and slumlords, nothing for young people or anyone who does not own property.

   And

   2) Get people back to work at the minimum wage in that state of $7.25 so that they pay taxes & revive the supply chain.

   Clueless.

   • The GOP is as clueless as ever

     • Re: “(the republican governor’s goal) to get people back to work at the minimum wage in that state of $7.25 so that they pay taxes & revive the supply chain”:

       Yes, the GOP is openly anti-worker, while the Dems tend to be more coy about it. How about that Alabama coal miners’ strike going on for a year and a half already? The system has not changed in a hundred years since the Alabama coal strike of 1920, where the workers were soundly defeated. There is a scandal ongoing about the discovery (surprise, surprise) of underage (as young as 12) HIspanic auto parts manufacturing workers, in Luverne, your part of Alabama.

       • The story about the Hyundai supplier is big news around here

         • “1. “Race is everything” – I don’t believe this. ”

           “Race is everything” is just hyperbolic, an excessive counterreaction to ‘race is meaningless’.

           Race is extremely important, probably by far the most important, but there are many ancillary factors that contribute to good society

         • Ding ding ding.

           It is possible to be White and a complete cultural degenerate and piece of shit like Hunter Biden. Why is this so hard to understand?

           Back in the day, the Klan certainly understood this. The Klan was more interested in maintaining the social order and a healthy culture and morals than anything else. The Klan didn’t go around saying retarded things like “race is everything.” The group was never completely focused on race and of often dealt with drunks who abused their wives

     • “The GOP is as clueless as ever”

       They are two-faced and soulless.
       They know exactly whats happening to the working class and working poor.

       • Yep.

         It is why I focus on the voters, not the politicians

         • Race is a poison because it turned our European ancestors who came over here into “Whites”. Before that we identified with our ethnicity not “race”. Race is NOT a biological reality, and is only a product of the mind via a social construct. I recommend E Michael Jones talks about this.

   • ” story about the Hyundai supplier is big news around here”

     Mexican child labor is common on construction sites. Having the kids, both boys and girls, go to work with dad and do the menial time consuming work, bring parts, supplies, cleanup, mix paint etc. They use to be good jobs for Americans. I know of some men who worked through college doing construction cleanup.

   • “people back to work at the minimum wage in that state of $7.25”

     There are states with 7.25 min wage ?
     Unreal, can they find workers ?

     • Yes. Wisconsin & we were under the radar. No more, Con Inc ruined that. So Yes. This billionaire club is exposed in the Great Midwest.

       They order up illegal workers like Sushi. It’s embarrasing. Thank God JB brought me to the South.

   • @Vickey

     Republicans are the scum of the earth.

3. Race matters to every race except Whites. NonWhites put race 1st, it’s time Whites do the same thing.

   This nation was built for the White race until we were sold out by jews and sellout Whites with an agenda.

4. Wow, Hunter, great stuff, my feelings exactly, but better done. One day, maybe a book and biography how you and all of us got to this point. As Spock would say…. “Fascinating”…..

5. You constructed a strawman.

   “I don’t want to live in a White ethnostate with those people. It is not desirable”

   The idea is to convert as many of them as possible to being White Nationalists to minimise deaths & conflict. No one is proposing embracing them.

   “Culture is the glue that really holds nations together. As America has lost its common culture”

   It lost its racial cohesion first. Foreign people bring foreign cultures and ideas, and also a motivation to foment change in their new surroundings. Also all except token diversity must be rejected, or else we will still be following the liberal anti-racist project, just more slowly.

   “If race is everything and all that matters, then things like morality aren’t that important.”

   This is primarily a straw man, but where it has a piece of truth it is important to note this: NATURE does not care about morality, it cares about survival. An immoral White person can give birth to White children that turn out to be wonderfully moral. A Black person cannot (the cannot create a White child at all, moral or otherwise.. and nor can their own kids, or theirs etc). Of course we want societies as moral as possible, but in a hierarchy of needs, survival (intergenerational), has more importance than momentary additional comfort.

   “An excellent example of this mentality is that there can never be any common ground between people of different races.” Strawman.

   “I shouldn’t want my neighbors to share my moral values and be decent and kind people. We shouldn’t be getting along.”

   Empirically the sentiment expressed is true. We are facing UTTER ruin, as a result of the above. It seems you have a problem with people seeing reality as it really is. It isn’t that the ideas you have are correct, and the people you criticise wrong, it is that you are making a caricature out of their views. What is needed is a White appreciation of the absolute danger we are in as a people, and the NECESSITY of orientating to our own needs, and a proper realisation of what they are, if we are to avoid surviving merely at the mercy of people that hate us and actively wish us to be genocided.

   “Time and again, White Nationalist groups have been done in by the sordid behavior of their own leaders. Cults of personality form and rise and fall. It is a neverending cycle. ” This applies to all groups, at all times, nothing particular to White Nationalism.

   Race is not everything, but failure to appreciate the importance of race, IS what is harming Whites at present, and stands to harm us into the future.

   People who GENUINELY hold that race is most important, are NOT the people getting in the way of a path forward to protecting the White race. People who put IDEOLOGY before their race, are the people your criticism should truly apply to. (Even if there are some whose IDEOLOGY of putting their race first, interfere with ACTUALLY putting their race first, by choosing the path that most benefits it).

   i.e. a person who realises the critical importance of race, and hence of saving it, will look to accept help where it is available. And yes, of course, that can involve friendly relations and common cause with people of other races. This is common sense. A person that truly values and knows the importance of their race, does not want it to be put at risk. A person who places primary importance on race, may make tactical errors in progressing the needs of their race. A person though who makes other elements primary, like every intersecting element you mention, say as an example, “common culture”.. as in… it is important to make nations out of people with a common culture, their race, and racial mixing between people being unimportant, or lesser important (etc).. still leaves themselves open to similar tactical errors (even if they are swapping one set for another), but also are open to making prioritising errors, or serving their “race is not primary” ideal without error, but then, in doing so, doing harm to their race by following it faithfully.

   We must know the importance of race, and the threats to our wellbeing, rights and survival failing to orientate to it, in any way, has for us… whilst being honourable, strong, moral beings, who while standing firmly for our own needs, and no longer throwing them under the bus, do not act and view others more harshly than necessary.

   We must look at how OUR choices and views, allowed us to be put in the place we have been too. And how foolish Whites, easily misled, have been used against us, and not only that, are the primary vehicle for doing harm to us.

   We need a sure, sustainable path back to truly possessing self-determination, and cultural, genetic & phenotypical sustainability, and we can be as considerate of others, and other elements as much as possible, so long as those core needs are not compromised via over-consideration of other elements.

   We should always be mindful of our virtue, but not stupid. i.e. we should be honest, but not stupidly honest. Kind, but not stupidly kind. Reasonable with other races, but not stupidly over-reasonable.

   We are entering a world, thanks to technological advancements, where any people not protected by a strong national government, DEDICATED to their wellbeing, are at severe risk of falling prey to any party that would like to take advantage of them or eradicate them. And no White Westerner can claim such a thing at present. Did 60~95% of Whites in the West (nation dependant) just receive a chemical injection that will render their future generations infertile? Maybe, maybe not. What cannot be denied though is that we were exposed to the RISK of such a thing being done, with no effective defence against it happening. And that isn’t a set of dice you want to roll too many times.

   For every one supposedly pro-White person I’ve met online (or offline) that placed TOO MUCH importance on race, to the extent of turning away from paths that would be more helpful, I would have met 100 supposedly pro-Whites, putting way too little emphasis on it, and actively promoting stances that are far more directly harmful.

   We must follow what, in biological reality, will preserve us as a people into the future, not out of ideology, but because it is a prerequisite of survival all living things must obey, and here, not neglecting our spiritual side, but realising that dead people & cultures, have no spiritual side. Life being a pre-requisite to deal with the realm of spirit at all.

   ALIVE. FREE. SPIRITUAL. HONOURABLE. SUSTAINABLE. We must not forget ourselves, or what is good, but we must live… we must live.

   • Your strange insistence, that someone could place “too much emphasis on race” is like saying it’s better to be that acceptable milquetoast normie, so we will view you as having morals.

   • If Racial consciousness was natural and biological then you wouldn’t have to force Whites to separate from other races via laws. Clearly it is not a natural and biological phenomenon, but rather a taught sociological one. If Whites don’t want to naturally preserve their “own” as you say, and it be important then you cannot force it. This is why Pro-White groups are also worthless because it doesn’t attract the average White person for the most part, only those with pathologies. If Whites instinctively inherited racial instincts then you would need organizations to promote and use propaganda to convince them. You wouldn’t need anti-miscegenation laws, or segregation laws if race realism was “natural”. The fact remains that it’s NOT natural, which is why it has to be forced, taught and made into law. Whites have proven that we are not the superior “race” because as I’ll say again “Whites”is a social construct, we are not a homogeneous people group. I would also say that there is no such thing as a superior “race” only superior individuals.

     • Even superior people with high intellect can be fooled and taken in. It is relatively easy to brainwash people into believing a lie even after they know the truth. This is done simply by repeating the lie endlessly until it erases the truth formerly impressed on their minds. The important thing is to make sure the lie is repeated so often that repetition has the effect of a hypnotic suggestion on their minds. There is an old Latin proverb: Repetitio est mater studiorum (‘Repetition is the mother of studies’). The best way to learn anything is to hammer it into the mind through constant repetitions.

       A minority of stubborn diehards will continue to understand they are being lied to, for example, that race is a social construct, the socalled “holocaust”, a narrative by jews of what happened to them in WW2, never happend, or that the Protocols, a diabolical plan to rule the world, were written by the jews themselves, but those who understand the truth will now have to contend with an increasing number of strident, brainwashed, fanatics like you who keep telling them they’re “crazy” for believing in the “canard”, which the jews have endlessly inculcated the lie that race is a social construct, 6 million jews were gassed by the Germans, or that the Protocols are a “forgery”.

       To force an entire population into accepting the lies as you have, requires media control and mindbending propaganda on a monumental scale which the jews have done. Anyone with any thinking skills whatever understands the jews are in full control of the media.

       Some people exist in a world of thinking and others in a world of emotions. Thinkers are skeptics and herders are easily manipulated by emotive images and FALSE NARRATIVES.The slave masters, the jews, need only demonize the thinkers as the enemy and the herd will go for their throats.

6. Well said Hunter. Among White Nationalists there is much virulent anti-Christian attitudes. In their zeal to vanquish Jewish power, they go so far as even declaring that Christianity was created by the apostle Paul in order to deceive the Goyim, thus ensuring that Jews would control the world. Christianity, then, is itself part of the great Jewish deception to seize the planet under their control. It’s all part of ‘the plan.’

   This theory is so whacky that it’s surprising that intelligent people would find it believable. But then after reading their attacks on Christianity, it becomes evident that they don’t really understand the Christian Faith. They wrongly assume that every Christian is a pro-Zionist, rapture-believing, signs and wonders kind of Christian of the Charismatic stripe. They look around and witness much of the craziness of contemporary evangelicalism and think it’s authentic Christianity. These folks also have little understanding of redemptive history, the relationship between the Old and New Covenants, and the basics of Bible interpretation (hermeneutics). They have a scattergun approach to the New Testament, citing proof-texts here and there with little understanding of the historical context, genre and meaning.

   These folks want to ‘save’ white people from the grand Jewish scheme of making gentiles slaves to Jews by inventing the Christian religion. Yep, that’s right. Jews said to themselves: “We’ll get those dirty gentiles to worship us by inventing a Christ figure who says all sorts of anti-Semitic things against us. And then we’ll get these same gentile Christians to write a book which will condemn us, and even replace us as God’s chosen! And that’s how we will get them to worship us and praise us for all things!”

   In their minds, Paul got together with the Pharisees and concocted Christianity in order to deceive the goyim. Good grief, what an ingenuous plan! The hatred that Talmudic Jews have had against Christianity and Christians for the past two thousand years, well that’s just an act. The hostility between rabbinical Jews and Christianity is just for show, a wink in the midst of faked anger – all so they can get gentiles to esteem and worship them. Wow, what insight you have!

   And the portrayal of Jesus in the Gospels who explicitly condemned the Pharisees and their oral traditions, well that’s just part of the ‘plan’ too. And Paul’s words in 1 Thessalonians 2:15 that declares that the Jews who killed Jesus and prophets and drove the apostles out that – “They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men” – well, that’s not really what he believed. No, he was just fooling the Thessalonian believers as part of the grand ‘plan.’ When John the apostle recorded the words of Jesus in Revelation 3:9 wherein He condemns the “Synagogue of Satan” – well, He didn’t mean that either. He was just sticking to the ‘plan,’ that’s all.

   And all those Jews who work night and day to undermine and dilute the message of Christianity – well, they don’t really mean it either. They know it’s part of the ‘plan’ too.

   Anti-Christian White Nationalists, I suppose, must be commended for their efforts. They’ve discovered that Christianity and Talmudic Judaism are the same! That Jews were behind it all along! That the rabbis throughout the centuries were just pretending to hate Christianity. And when Israeli Jews prevent Christian evangelism in their country, that’s just a reflection of the ‘plan’ that Paul and those first century rabbis concocted from the very beginning.

   Yes indeed, what insight. We are all so deeply indebted to them.

   • Good comment. You are accurate. “The plan” is an absurd conspiracy theory.

   • >Among White Nationalists there is much virulent anti-Christian attitudes.

     I’ve personally not seen much, if any (?), ‘virulent anti-Christianity’ among White Nationalists — but assuming there is some, why might it exist? — one reason is suggested in my earlier comment here:

     link

     So to the extent that Christians are not opposed to Whites becoming a racial minority, and spreading ‘woke’ anti-white propaganda (CRT), White Nationalists have a perfectly good, logical reason to resent Christians, right?

     It’s a simple fact that non-whites of lower intelligence and impulse control (meaning they are more likely to be violent) are being indoctrinated to believe Whites are racist oppressors — so yes, it is a problem that civic nationalist, ‘one race, the human race’ white Christians are putting Whites as a race at risk by going along with our displacement.

     Other than that, why would a White who’s a White Nationalist have a problem with white Christians or Christianity? — there is no reason.

7. Christianity, historically speaking, is a Jewish sect that took off with Gentiles. You can’t stand up to Jewish power basing your platform on a faith they created.

   • Exactly.

     Why should Christians be interested in supporting your cause? If this is your message, you should hang the gloves up now and go home because it will never resonate with the 80% of people on the Right who are Christians

     • Sorry that the truth hurts, but that’s what Christianity is. However, like the NSDAP did in Germany, I’m willing to work with White Christians who put their race first, and there are TradCaths and Orthodox Christians in White Nationalism who put aside their differences to work together. Evangelical Nationalists won’t, so they are an enemy just like the Left and the Jews.

       • I think it makes much more sense to focus on those people. I don’t see any path forward for White Nationalism. It is just too strongly anti-Christian to ever gain traction with a mass audience. I think normies are radicalizing though. I have high hopes for them

         • César Tort has responded to you on his blog: https://westsdarkesthour.com/2022/07/31/on-wallaces-apologetics/

     • “Why should Christians be interested in supporting your cause?”

       Being anti-Christian is a sure path to losing.
       Christianity is the dominant religion in US and deeply held by millions. It’s best not to create fractures with potential allies.

8. Please give a hat-tip to John Derbyshire. He was writing about the white vs white cold civil war long before anyone else was really paying any attention to it.

   • H/T Derb

     Derb is right about it

     • He has mixed race kids. Jeesh.

       • I didn’t say he was perfect. Just that he had a point

         • Nothing wrong with mixed kids. We’re all mixed ethnically. I love Asian women and hope to marry one.

9. Race is foundational. It is like the genetic code which sets the range of expression for the metaorganism. I don’t believe that a population of bantus given a thousand timelines would be able to create a culture or society that i would want to actually live in. Racial mixing and replacement is the most immediate and dangerous threat facing us today. Morality, culture, economics, religion, its reasonable to think that all these issues can be fixed if they become degraded. But race, that isn’t something that can easily be un-fucked.

   I don’t think that we should be trying to save all whites either, in fact the liberal and the antiracist are our greatest enemies. Most of these issues wouldn’t exist without a fifth column inside white nations always siding with the outgroup and perpetually hostile to their own history and culture. We need a schism between whites, with them becoming more gay and brown by the generation and us becoming more insulated from liberalism.

   Christian nationalism is good in that it brings us closer to that schism, but it in itself will not save us. Without a doctrine of explicit racialism on a long enough timeline the result is always going to be the same, a mulatto sludge. When push comes to shove they will expel racialists from their ranks in order to win short term victories, and they will allow jews to subvert their movement through false conversions. There is plenty of historical evidence that conversion of jews is not an adequate solution to the JQ, there is no reason to think that this time will be any different.

   So if this moves us incrementally closer to a civil war or secession or results in whites forming communities and institutions insulated from globohomo, then good but i have zero faith that movement will bring us anywhere close to the finish line.

   • Good post and I agree. You wrote: “Racial mixing and replacement is the most immediate and dangerous threat facing us today.” Yes, and it can’t be undone, as you said.
     Putting religion first, means putting race last, because someone will know of a special nonwhite, or they will justify adopting nonwhites, etc.

10. Race isn’t everything but it’s what we have to rally around to defeat the bad guys. An example might be the ancient Greek city-states who were at odds with each other over various things, and even at war with each other at times. But when what was considered the tyranny of the Persian Empire threatened the Greeks, they rallied around race and defeated the Persians.

    Religion is needed for people to risk all – an atheist wants to hang on to this life as long as possible and get as much pleasure out of it as possible. Maybe the WWII Communists could be a counter-example to that, but they were terrorized and lied into fighting for the state. Also, rape and booty became a big part of it for them. One might say that in America, or the West at large, Christianity is the majority religion, so when looking for soldiers, you got to go hunting where the ducks are. The thing is, Christianity itself has major problems with factionalism and even more major problems in that its entire leadership is cucked by liberalism and the Jewish lobby. Also, a principled Christian is interested only in pleasing Jesus and therefore securing a spot in Heaven. Race is an irrelevancy.

    I’m a believer in God but don’t see how Christianity, especially in its current form, will save us.

    • “I’m a believer in God but don’t see how Christianity, especially in its current form, will save us” – Good comments, but just by way of clarification not only is Christianity unable to save us (whether in current form or not), it has NEVER had the ability to save one single person – only Christ Jesus can do that and that’s a work on His part that only he can sovereignly accomplish (John 6:44; Acts 16:14).

      The church has no salvific powers, although it is indeed a means to salvation – meaning, gathering with like-minded believers helps me to persevere, contributes to my sanctification, and ultimately contributes to the consummation of my salvation when I shall see Christ face-to-face in heaven or when He returns.

      The craziness of contemporary Christianity is simply a sign of the times. So, whether Christians in America remain faithful to Christ and the Scriptures or not, I as an individual believer am still required to believe and persevere in faith. I’m sure you would agree with this.

      • Your religious salvation has nothing to do with saving the White race.
        Some of you are very sheltered.

11. Historically, nations (this means a people group) are generally defined by having these 3 things in common: Ethnicity, Language, and Religion. This is the problem with America now. All we can align on, en masse, is race (not as specific as ethnicity) and language. There is no religious consensus. This is why jews and muslims are such bulldozers. They are inbred, and therefor have a high level of ethnocentricity which is largely based on hating outsiders, and thinking it’s morally good to rape/kill/enslave outsiders.

    Whites are too nice, domesticated, trusting and most problematic of all INDIVIDUALIST to withstand waves of mass migration.

    I tend to think if we have a future, where our identity is maintained, it will have to be outside of America.

    • Exactly what I’ve been saying. “Race is a social construct creating and weaponized via the mind”. The 3 things that matter: Ethnicity, Language, and Religion, NOT “Race”. Race has 0 biological basis BUT Ethnicity does.

12. The problem with Christian Nationalism is that it must by definition be prone to doctrinal divisions, a point which no one disputes. And it is indisputable because of the history of the Christian body, with all its gangrenous amputations. Unless “Christian Nationalism” requires no particular theological doctrine, in which case, to label it with the religious label of “Christianity” is superfluous.

    White people groups had a culture before Christianity. Why do you think Christianity wasn’t ever able to rename the days of the week and the names of the months for English speaking people? What do you think the Vikings had? What do you think the English had before Augustine (no relation) showed up on the shore of Kent in 597?

    If you actually pay attention to the Calvinist Presbyterians who came up with the doctrines of post-millenialism, dominionism, theonomy, you will find that they believe “patriotic” worship services are a form of idolatry, because they are not commanded by the New Testament. This is what is called the “Regulative Principle of Worship.” They find any national flag in the sanctuary to be an abomination, an offering of false fire. And because they believe the Bible, they believe it when it says that the kingdom of Jesus Christ is not of this world.

    Just go to http://www.puritanboard.com and see their intra-Calvinist debates over theonomy. These people have espoused this view long, long, before now, and they are the best expositors of it.

    I quote Tocqueville to the embarrassment of those who would only quote their part of him:

    “I am aware that at certain times religion may strengthen this influence, which originates in itself, by the artificial power of the laws, and by the support of those temporal institutions which direct society. Religions, intimately united to the governments of the earth, have been known to exercise a sovereign authority derived from the twofold source of terror and of faith; but when a religion contracts an alliance of this nature, I do not hesitate to affirm that it commits the same error as a man who should sacrifice his future to his present welfare; and in obtaining a power to which it has no claim, it risks that authority which is rightfully its own. When a religion founds its empire upon the desire of immortality which lives in every human heart, it may aspire to universal dominion; but when it connects itself with a government, it must necessarily adopt maxims which are only applicable to certain nations. Thus, in forming an alliance with a political power, religion augments its authority over a few, and forfeits the hope of reigning over all.

    As long as a religion rests upon those sentiments which are the consolation of all affliction, it may attract the affections of mankind. But if it be mixed up with the bitter passions of the world, it may be constrained to defend allies whom its interests, and not the principle of love, have given to it; or to repel as antagonists men who are still attached to its own spirit, however opposed they may be to the powers to which it is allied. The Church cannot share the temporal power of the State without being the object of a portion of that animosity which the latter excites.” Democracy In America, Vol. I Ch. XVII

    I don’t think it’s an op, I think it’s useful. It’s necessary but not sufficient. It’s necessary to craft a political society which pleases Christians without allowing their divisions to engulf said society in a conflagration of petty differences. I am willing to make concessions to the majority of White Nationalists who are Christian in order to achieve the common objectives that HW lists better than I can. Do they feel the same way?

13. Re: your article mentioning Craig Cobb and Harold Covington

    Unlike a lot of the “people in the movement”, most people have jobs, to support themselves and/or their families. Telling people to just uproot and move to the NW doesn’t work if people cannot find jobs. This is why the big cities are big, because most of the well-paying jobs are in or around big cities. I remember long ago, some guy posted on a now-defunct forum, how he was going to move up north, and he had his wife and family with him. He had no job lined up, which was a bad move. They got there, finally, but no job. Which blew their plans apart. So unless you are rich or don’t need to work, everything is not an option. The Craig Cobb thing was stupid. I read about it, and it seems there was bragging to the press…who turned around and got the law to shut the whole thing down. A smart person would not have talked about it, since it’s illegal to not sell to minorities. The whole “look at us” type of mentality is stupid.
    So it really isn’t about WNs not backing these people. WNs are being cautious. Just because someone calls themselves a WN or pro-white, doesn’t mean they are safe.

    • You’re conceding the point.

      White Nationalists are not going to uproot themselves and move across the country to create a White ethnostate with strangers from the internet based on sheer idealism. They won’t even take over ghost towns on the Great Plains like Leith, ND where you could realistically move in and seize control over local government. And yet, people cling to the abstract idea of doing so while having no plans to ever act on it

      • Again, economics wins out. People are not going to move to some Great Plains town, unless they can earn a living there. It’s not about seizing control of anything. Balkanization is a far away thing because most people cannot afford to just leave their jobs.
        These guys and their little PLEs just totally ignore the big thing. Being able to get by.
        They must all be sitting on some fat trust fund, so they don’t care.
        It’s like people leaving California. If you have a decent job there, and are getting by, just uprooting and trying to recreate that in another state just might not happen. So where are you better off?

        • I agree.

          It isn’t realistic to expect people to uproot themselves and move across the country to create even a miniature White ethnostate. I’ve been watching for 20 years and White Nationalists haven’t even managed to take over a subdivision in the real world due to the lack of will to do so.

          It isn’t unfeasible. They have more than enough people who believe in the ideology. They just don’t want to do it. This is one reason why I skeptical of migration schemes. The other reason is that few White Nationalists in my experience want to leave their area.

          Look at David Duke. He lives in the New Orleans area. My father-in-law had to be dragged against his will out of St. Louis and even then he would only move to the suburbs. White Nationalists complain about changing racial demographics, but they love their homes a lot more than libtards

          If people are going to stay where they are no matter what, I think this should be acknowledged

          • I don’t think people aren’t moving because they love their homes. I also don’t think whites stay where they are, no matter what…I know plenty of people who moved in the past two years, and they didn’t like being here anymore. But they lined up jobs, and they had plenty of money to buy a home where they went. If they hadn’t found jobs, they wouldn’t have gone.
            Whites have moved, and kept moving out to the suburbs and even bedroom communities, and now, a lot have long commutes to work. Plenty of whites have moved, when their– neighborhoods have darkened.
            It’s not the WNs who are off here. It’s you guys– who don’t seem to understand that people need their jobs, or they will not have a roof over their head, or food in their stomachs.

          • I fully understand that people need jobs.

            I’m saying that what WNs insist that they want to do is contradicted by their own behavior. They are not ever going to move somewhere and create a White ethnostate. They are not ever going to create so much as a neighborhood or take over a ghost town. They should adapt their own ideology to reality instead of coming here and attacking Christians whose politics are far better than atheists

          • Most whites already live in places where the people they see on a daily basis are supermajority white, with most of the rest being nonblack minorities who live decently and don’t cause trouble, followed a residual black minority small enough to ignore. Those who live in cities on the frontier of black ghettos do routinely flee to the “ethnostate” in the suburbs, to be replaced by fresh grads who haven’t been redpilled.

            Even when it comes to cities, I see more blacks on the streets in Western Europe than in the white neighborhoods of East Coast cities.

          • Personally, I alway understood the NWF as more of a “Break Glass in case of American Collapse.” The idea was White Americans would be guaranteed a chunk of America if/when America dissolved. Otherwise Whites would be in isolated little islands spread out all over with little hope of anything other than being a powerless minority.

            Now, that was always going to be a hard sell to people obviously. You’re being asked to make a big sacrifice for the future with no guarantee of anything. Add to that it is a chicken and egg type dilemma. The people you’d need to create a base for such a thing would be family types hesitant to move away from their support networks. Thus the NWF would need to be their support network which they couldn’t do without family types already there. I think they were making progress but I don’t know how much. Also the fact that the Northwest was already a questionable area and HAC himself was highly controversial.

            The idea of a White redoubt is not a bad idea in and of itself. However, here it comes, most White Americans still feel no real urgency to their upcoming minority status and what that really means. There may come a time when American Whites will beg for a White redoubt somewhere. It won’t be there. It is what it is.

    • As someone who followed Harold Covington for years, his problem wasn’t so much that he couldn’t get people to move, it was that he couldn’t get the right people to move. He made a lot of mention of “t-shirt youth” and people who had nothing that sometimes would show up and many more times say they would but had little to no money and just the t-shirts off their backs and expecting more help than the NWF could provide relative to the numbers.

      He realized that what he was attempting to build was a longshot, and was under no delusion that it would happen over night if it did. I don’t think it’s a matter of economics, I think it truly is a matter of familiarity. I think most people in their 30s and 40s don’t want to move far from family and their homes to a new place and try to settle in there. However it’s precisely these people that need to lay the foundations of a new community if someone was attempting a PLE concept.

      You could build a PLE of 50 penniless White men in their early 20’s relatively easily if you built the infrastructure, getting a PLE of 25 middle class White couples is almost impossible. That’s the puzzle that any person attempting a PLE will have to solve and I don’t think it’s really a matter of money as the promise of a 60k a year job and a decent suburban style home probably wouldn’t be enough to get a Texan to move to Idaho.

14. I agree with most of this.

    I think Christianity and Racial Nationalism can coexist (it did before). It’s a matter of messaging and appeal to make it work today.

15. Should not true Christians that sincerely follow biblical scripture be pegging the needle closer to 100% against abortion, same-sex marriage, transsexuality, et cetera? ?

16. I lost all interest in white nationalism years ago since there was simply no foreseeable end to the racial dispossession of whites in America, both in terms of the runaway train immigration & the cratering birthrates. A white ethnostate was simply out of the question. So I opted for generalized pro-white politics in its place (i.e. simply whites seeing themselves as a racial group who must defend themselves from attack & assert their rights).

    Not even two years ago, things were looking pretty bleak. The left had dialed up their assault on America to 11 meanwhile conservatives were still sounding like Alt-Lite goobers from 2016. Basically, I just accepted that Judeo-Bolshevism Part 2 was inevitable due to the terminally unserious right & started preparing myself for the worst.

    The last several months have really caught me by surprise. Mainstream figures regularly bringing up the Great Replacement and talking about fusing church & state. Talk of secession, of enshrining Christianity into law, of whites being under attack & subject to replacement were now normalized among normiecons. Most whitepilling of all was the overturning of Roe Vs Wade since it was an indicator that we have more institutional power than we thought. Now political figures are openly embracing Christian Nationalism & unapologetically associating with extremist figures like Torba & platforms like Gab. Most important of all is their newfound disregard for democracy/liberalism in favor of militantly pursuing their political goals. They finally realized the time for debates is over. It seems the populist elements of American right are increasingly winning out & radicalizing, and the right is finally starting to go in a viable direction. The Floyd Riots, the draconian Covid response, & the LGBT grooming must’ve finally pushed them over the edge.

    In light of these uplifting developments, I really think the dissident right ought to run with it and try their best to inject pro-white attitudes into the increasingly radical Christian civic nationalism that’s developing instead of fighting with it & being antagonistic towards Christians. Their contempt for Christians rests with their cuckery. Well now they’re uncucking theirselves. And since white nationalists are currently the most disempowered & marginalized people in the West, it would seem they should save their anti-Christian vendetta for another day. They’d have a much better chance of carving out a non-Christian alternative path for certain segments of whites in the future than they do now. The bottom line is that Christians are radicalizing. We now have a potential alternative future to the horror show envisioned by Klaus Schwab. They are currently our only hope. Maybe we should set our differences aside & be a little supportive for the moment.

    Furthermore, while conservative normies are warming up to white identity politics, I don’t think they’re quite ready to embrace something like white nationalism. White Nationalism/ethnic cleansing still comes off as a dogmatic, divisive, unnecessary, illogical, & over-the-top solution to a conflict that largely consists of whites being ripped apart by ideology. No one believes its just whites vs non-whites & everyone hates libtards more than life itself. No white conservative is gonna warm up to the idea of expelling their non-white friends, co-workers, neighbors, or half-blood family members who support Trump in favor of retaining anti-white freaks who follow Vaush. If full-fledged white nationalism were to take off, I think it’s a situation where it would start off as pro-white civic nationalism & then eventually morph into ethno-nationalism. If you insist on pushing white nationalism, I would caution against the dogmatism & crude reductionism, try to reconcile it with white Christian sensibilities, & approach in a conciliatory manner (i.e. the complete opposite of wignat-ery).

    • WNs don’t have “anti Christian vendetta”. WNs just realize that Christians are going to follow whatever the Jewish God says. It’s always been that way. WNs are tired of trying to get Christians to realize where they are putting their allegiances. They refuse to see what the problem is.

17. Hatred of Christianity is a strange and mostly American concept. You see this in atheist circles as well. I quite frankly don’t understand it at all coming from Canada which is mostly irreligious. 3/4th’s of the hatred seems to stem from anger that one is not allowed to engage in destructive behaviours due to 20th century Christian morals, and the other 1/4th is anger that Christianity is preventing right-wingers from “waking up” to whatever ideology they want to peddle to them.

    Most of the values I want in society can be found professed in early 20th century Christianity, why someone would want to throw the baby out with the bath water is beyond me. In fact it seems uninteresting, like a variation of Greg Johnson’s “No Blacks in the Gay bath houses”. “No Blacks in the Heroin Dens”, “No Jews in the Brothels” or even more ridiculous “Nazi pseudo-Roman global Empire ideology that promises Mars colonies after 10 years of the ideology being adopted”

    I’m fine if someone believes in some pagan religion or ideology for themselves and it helps them self-actualize, I don’t know why in this modern age that would mean hatred of Christianity. I have more in common with a Pagan White Nationalist than a shitlib, but some of them devote their energy and effort to hating me and my religion and not the shitlib.

    A bunch of people out here are treating alternative politics like it’s some sort of video game where they get to build their own belief system and try to conquer the world with it.

    • because it ain’t “religion” it’s purely global political —>joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/When-a-Jew-Rules-the-World.pdf —

      and as Pilot has been stating “WNs don’t have “anti Christian vendetta”. WNs just realize that Christians are going to follow whatever the Jewish God says!!!!!

      It’s always been that way. WNs are tired of trying to get Christians to realize where they are putting their allegiances. They refuse to see what the problem is.”

      “Putting (a foreigner’s see Matthew 15:24) religion first, means putting race last, because someone will know of a special nonwhite, or they will justify adopting nonwhites, etc.”

      • Thank you for stating that so well. Yes, pro-Whites are exhausted with trying to get Christians to see they are enabling the enemy.
        Christians are doing the Jew thing of “You hate me for no reason”. I wouldn’t say most pro-Whites hate them, it’s more of a lack of trust, because of who they have allegiances to.
        I’d say most WNs and pro-Whites welcome Christians but they don’t want them to promote and enable the enemy.

18. An issue for WN as a movement or ideology is that America’s “race” problem is really a Black problem. There is very little practical difference between second or third generation Mexicans or Chinese, and 4th to 8th gen Europeans, in terms of willingness or ability to build and operate a decent society. Immigration does however impose crushing burdens on overall social cohesion.

    Ofc CivNat of the John Derbyshire variety has been hardly more successful than WN. The emergence of Christian Nationalism and the opportunity to use it as a vehicle for implementing CivNat policies is the first real opportunity our side has to turn things around.

    • Seriously, have you had much contact with Latinos? Can anyone name any ground breaking technology or scientific discovery originating from these people? Now compare that to European peoples. The Latinos offer absolutely nothing we couldn’t do better ourselves. We don’t need them in our societies for anything, unless you want to create Brazil del Norte right down to the flavellas. I still swear that most Whites are suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

19. I’m white.

    Etc., etc., etc., etc.,……………etc., etc., etc, etc.

    Cul-de-sac WN wants me to ignore or forget all the other et ceterae.

20. “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

    Here is Hunter’s basic problem…he makes valid critiques of White Nationalists, but all of his critiques can easily boomerang and be applied even more forcefully to the ChristNats. I’ll make a coupe in no particular order.

    1. The very label of “Christian Nationalist” is dishonest and incoherent. Nation means related by blood and birth. Unless you are going to make your movement ethnic and racial then the very name of the movement is a fraud.
    2. Christ Nat has been tried before and has failed. See the Reconquista, the Holy Roman Empire, the Early Massachusetts Colonies and the Confederate States.
    3. Christ Nats cannot even define who is and who is not a Christian. I can tell you who is and isn’t white. How are you going to define the limits of your Christian group? This is especially problematic when 3 out of 5 churches are proudly flying the BLM and Pride flags and the other 2 are full of men who make Rod Dreher look like a warrior. How are you going to purify the country when you can’t even defend you own churches?
    4. Wokery is a bigger problem among Christians than among non believers. The modern left does have roots that come from the Puritans, Quakers and Methodists. The most conservative evangelicals share every basic moral tenant of the crazy leftists. Try getting a modern Christian to accept the ethnocentrism that’s is all through the Bible. Their eyes will role and they will quote Galatians 3:28 on and endless loop.
    5. The system we live under is evil and it fears the Wignats more than it fears the Christians. I work for a large Southern Corporation that pushes Homosexuality, BLM movement and every other piece of disgusting leftism. If I told them I was a follower of Jesus they would pay me on the head and say “bless your little heart.” If I told them I was a follower of Hitler I would be immediately and physically shown the door. A man and a movement are known by their enemies. When I see my enemies taking ChristNats seriously, then I will take the ChristNats seriously also.

21. >The belief that “race is everything” hobbles White Nationalism

    LOL

    Sorry, but that is absolutely ridiculous — race is extremely important, far more important than anything else (saying it is ‘everything’ is rhetorically dishonest) — and in a political environment where ‘It’s OK to be White’ is deemed a ‘hate symbol’, this accurate assessment of the importance of race is definitely not what ‘hobbles’ White Nationalism.

    Surely you can do better than this — ?

    • How so?

      The main thing that comes to mind when ordinary people hear the term “White Nationalism” now is all the mass shootings by sociopaths. That’s a direct result of the belief that “race is everything.”

      • “The main thing that comes to mind when ordinary people hear the term “White Nationalism” now is all the mass shootings by sociopaths. That’s a direct result of the belief that “race is everything.”

        And the main thing that comes to mind when ordinary people hear the term “Christian Nationalism” now is The Handmaid’s Tale and twinks like Milo and Fuentes.

        • Nope.

          70% of Americans are Christians.

          80% of Republican voters are Christians.

          90% of Trump voters are strong Christians.

          “Christian nationalism” sounds like Christians wanting their values to be reflected in government. It is controversial in the media. It is not controversial in the country

          • Nope

            60% of Americans are white

            80% of Republican voters are white

            “White Nationalism” sounds like white voters wanting fair ethnic representation and their concerns to be addressed.

            Seriously….I know you can make better arguments
            .

          • @Hunter. and your Christian values will reflect what nonwhites want too. It will do nothing to stop the enemy, either. Christianity includes all races. Youre chasing cult fantasies.

          • What is the problem with people sharing the same moral beliefs and values?

          • It’s a problem when it’s destroying us, and you know it.
            You’re just playing stupid now, and you know better.

      • I am not sure how to respond to this — I sometimes have the impression you are being disingenuous.

        Of course White Nationalism has nothing at all to do with ‘mass shootings by sociopaths’ — to the extent the media makes this association, then as suggested in my comment that is another part of what mainly ‘hobbles’ White Nationalism today: the rabid media smear campaign against anything deemed supportive of white identity.

        I believe the vast majority of Whites have at least a sense of how important race is — but they have also been relentlessly indoctrinated to believe noticing racial differences, no matter how important, consequential, and apparently intractable, is wrong — part of White Nationalism is helping Whites overcome this taboo by introducing them to rational race realism — in this context, you can also point out to them that being a minority in a polity that deems them racist oppressors presents a serious, tangible risk to them and their children — I also believe many Whites already perceive this, e.g. they see that the physical elimination phase of diversity has begun.

    • @Jack Larson. It’s like cult thinking takes them over. Whites being subjugated has nothing to do with religion, but they want to keep playing this game. They know it’s about race, but since they think we can’t win, they want to philosemitically embrace religion and pretend the enemy just isn’t that bad.

22. Well done.

    This is why I follow OD and not a bunch of other sites: you focus on all the things that matter, not just one.

    P.S. The change in my family members and fellow church members over the last year has been remarkable. Things I was thought crazy for saying just a few years ago seem to be conventional wisdom now.

    • Same here.

      It is a weird feeling. I’m used to being controversial!

23. Honestly my main disagreement of modern Christian nationalism is it’s obviously neo evangelicalism in new clothes. and Race is both has biological and spiritual, Liberalism strips someone of Race by atomizing them and individualizing him into a simple lemming who watchs tv, eats fast food and waits for new product. I agree the ideological liberal isn’t White and doesn’t deserve representation in a future state. The problem with alot of the “anti racial christian right” is that they play with people’s emotions and try’s to get you to effectively fighting your Race. I don’t dislike christians and I belive we need to work and rise with christians, religious infighting is simple divide et impera.